Another Pass at Sonic the Hedgehog

All hail the Donut Lord! Case and Sam are joined by their editor, Matt Storm, to spin dash into the Fastest Thing Alive’s first outing!

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Outline

Introduction and Host Introductions (00:00 - 00:30)

• Hosts Case Aiken, Sam Alicea, and guest Matt Storm discuss the Sonic the Hedgehog movie as a Subject for the podcast.

Initial Impressions and Sonic Movie Design History (00:00 - 09:51)

• Enthusiastic praise for Jim Carrey's role as Dr. Robotnik.

• Discussion of James Marsden's character and his unrealistic portrayal of being disliked by his sister-in-law.

Story Structure, Sonic Lore, and Found Family Themes (09:51 - 19:45)

• Exploration of the movie’s lack of deep Sonic universe lore beyond Green Hills setting.

• Hope expressed that the sequel will delve deeper into Sonic lore, especially with characters like Knuckles.

Movie Aesthetic, Visual Design, and Sonic Redesign Controversy (19:45 - 30:15)

• Discussion on the redesign of Sonic after fan backlash to the original trailer.

• Praise for the film's visual effects including props like Sonic’s quill.

Character Development, Cast Chemistry, and Comedy (30:15 - 40:40)

• Appreciation for cast chemistry, especially Ben Schwartz’s embodiment of Sonic’s youthful personality.

• Discussion on the underutilization of characters like Longclaw, and the missed opportunity for deeper exploration.

Critiques on Story Elements and Police Theme (40:40 - 50:48)

• Concerns over James Marsden’s cop role and its lack of relevance to the plot.

• Critique of the lack of motivation for character tensions, especially with Marsden’s sister-in-law.

Pitch Session: Movie Improvements and Lore Expansion (50:48 - 01:10:33)

• Matt Storm recommends extending or deepening the opening scenes to include more of Sonic’s original world and backstory.

• Proposal to change Marsden’s profession from cop to baker or similar, to reduce controversial implications.

️ Additional Lore and Action Set-Pieces Suggestions (01:10:33 - 01:19:49)

• Case Akin proposes adding more anthropomorphic animal characters to reinforce community and stakes.

• Desire to have more memorable, game-inspired music during action scenes.

Closing and Additional Plug for Podcasts and Related Shows (01:19:49 - 01:30:00)

• Hosts share social media and podcast promotion information.

• Sign-off and promotion for upcoming podcast topics.

Transcription

00:00
Matt
My number one positive is Jim Carrey, full stop. Flat out. Jim Carrey is himself in this movie. He, you know, I grew up on the Ace Ventura movies which don't age great and like the Mask and you know, Dumb and Dumber. Dumb and Dumber. Surprisingly, age is okay, but like I.

00:19
Case
Love those Samsonites way off.

00:23
Matt
Like I love Jim Carrey. I've always been a fan. I loved his standup. I loved him on In Living Color. Color. Like he's one of my lifelong favorite comedy people that's still alive. RIP Robin Williams, who I also love but is unfortunately no longer around doing this kind of stuff. And so when I heard he was going to be Robotnik and everyone was like, I don't know, I went, yes, perfect, let's get wild. Like that first scene where he shows up and talks to Neil McDonough and like, is it like. It's just like. I'm just laughing. I'm just laughing at it. Welcome to Certain Point of View's another past podcast. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com hey everyone and.

01:08
Case
Welcome back to another past podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always I am joined by my co host Sam Alicea.

01:13
Sam
Hi.

01:14
Case
And today we have normally our unheard voice in the winds actually with us today we've actually got matt Storm with us.

01:24
Matt
Hi. I'm glad to be on the show and talk to Sam specifically.

01:29
Sam
He's a superstar. He's a rock star. Oh my God, stop it.

01:33
Matt
Sam. For those who don't know, a little inside baseball often since I edit the show, if something happens or there's a mess up or whatever, there will be laughter, calamity, and then Sam will go, I love you Matt. I'm sorry, please fix it or whatever. And it's nice to actually be able to talk to Sam in real time instead of through the time travel of editing.

01:53
Sam
Yeah, yeah.

01:53
Case
Otherwise it's like the lake.

01:55
Sam
Although, are you really talking to me? Because I keep inferring and it may be true that I am just a figment of Keis imagination. So just keep that in mind. You maybe have entered some sort of.

02:06
Matt
State where, I mean, I've often joked that Kayce and I share a brain. So like you could just be a figment of my imagination as well at.

02:12
Sam
This point, which is, I mean, that makes sense. I am so appreciative of you. Can you imagine? I mean everyone should have that part of their brain. There's just so appreciative of them. It's like, yes. I'm so glad you're here. I know you're going to fix everything, buddy. Woo. Yeah. I love being that part of someone's brain.

02:31
Case
We all need split personalities, where someone's just like, one personality is just the booster for the other one. The cheerleader, Like, Hulk's, like, banner, you can do it. Banner, you can do it.

02:40
Sam
Honestly, like, if I lived in someone's brain, I totally would want to just be their hype man. Like, just like, being like, oh, you got this. You got this. Oh, I can't wait to see you do this. I can't. Yeah, that would be my. That would be my dream job. Can I. Can I stop being a real adult and just do that?

03:01
Case
I mean, I wish that. That sounds like the dream, frankly. Like, it'd be so much nicer to live inside any of our heads than in the real world, because the real world is cold and dreary right now. It's wintertime. But the movie we're talking about today is not. It's bright and it's colorful. It's fun. It did require some. Some revisions to make a palatable level for audiences, but today we're talking about Sonic the Hedgehog.

03:24
Matt
Yeah. A movie that I've wanted to talk about on the show for a while because it's in that for me, at least in that camp of it's good. But it could better, though. It almost felt like a contender for the Fives because it did get some revisions and reshoots to fix it. So it was kind of nebulous in that place. But I will say up front, I genuinely love this movie. As a die hard Sonic fan, I could have easily hated this, and I definitely do not. I definitely think it's fun, but there are things I think that could for sure be improved within it.

03:56
Case
Yeah. Yeah. So I. I didn't see this in theaters. I. I wanted to. Like, I didn't have, like, a reason not to, but I just missed it. And by the time I actually watched it, you know, I. I had heard enough. Like, I knew that people. People weren't raving about it. People generally were like, yeah, pretty positive. And, like, watching it. I'm like, okay, yeah, I see that. Like, but that said, you go back to the designs for Sonic originally, the terrifying, horrible design, and it's just not a thing I want to look at. So in that sense, you're right. It almost could be a fifth episode, because if this movie was, like, a hair better, it would be exactly in that ballpark where it's like, oh, man, can you imagine if it looked like this thing?

04:34
Case
But then it turned out great and instead it turned out fine. Like B plus, maybe a solid B somewhere in that range.

04:41
Sam
Yeah. I mean, right off the bat, I just want to talk about the most unrealistic plot point is that, like, James Marsden is not likable and the sister in law would hate him. I just want to like that. Like, I feel like that's like top to me because the movie didn't give an actual reason. I know, guys, I'm jumping right in. This is the thing I had the most problem with. That's right. This is the thing. And I was just like, first of all, this person, James Merson, I'm pretty sure that a bunch of like golden retrievers could have been born in heaven and were like, no, we want to join together to just create James Marston because he's just so lovely and he's lovely on screen.

05:18
Sam
I don't know how he is in real life, but he's lovely on screen and he definitely portrays that. And for some reason his sister in law hates him and there is no reason given whatsoever. And everyone, I mean, her child ties her up. Like, the child's loyalty is not even. Like, clearly there's something wrong with this woman. But yeah, that was. Other than that. I loved this film. That was the one thing that I was like, whoa, no, that makes no sense.

05:46
Case
Yeah, that was also a disconnect point for me because the sister is played by Natasha Rothwell, who I know as the only likable character on the White Lotus. She was Belinda, the masseuse. And it's just such a weird juxtaposition and it's just actors, whatever. But at the same time, I'm like, but I like her so much and she's so mean to James Marston. I don't think. I think I need to reevaluate this friendship.

06:15
Sam
There was just, I feel like. And again, this is like the least important thing. But this is the thing that bothered me the most in the film. I don't know why, but there was just no justification. Like, it wasn't like. Like she didn't say to her sister, like, you could have been more like, you're stuck in that small town because of him, or like, I don't know. But there was no justification for why she didn't like him. Did I miss it? No, I don't think so. I think they just, they were just like, she just doesn't like him. And this is just comedy. Your family hating you is not comedy. That's tension and trauma.

06:48
Case
Yeah, I mean, I guess if she just doesn't like Cops, I could buy that. But they don't even say that.

06:53
Sam
Right.

06:53
Matt
But they don't even do the social commentary route because like that was my hitching point, rewatching it because I saw it. I saw this movie in theaters with fellow certain POV member Rachel Quirky Shank because no one else wanted to see the Sonic movie with me. And they were like, yeah, I'll go, whatever, what the hell. So I believe it was me, them and their partner and we all had a good time. But like James Marsden. I've had a crush on James Marsden forever like everybody else. But like is also genuinely seems to be a sweet guy in real life. And so yeah, I'm with you, Sam. I think it's just an unrealistic plot point. It doesn't make any sense.

07:28
Sam
He's a treasure.

07:29
Matt
He's a treasure. He absolutely is.

07:30
Case
Yeah.

07:31
Matt
I mean, I do want to talk like, if we're getting right into it, I want to talk about the cast a little bit because this movie for the most part is phenomenally cast. I mean like I've been a big Ben Schwartz fan since House of Lies and since Parks and Rec. Like I've always really liked Ben Schwartz a lot. And while of course the original voice of Sonic in the Modern Games, I really like, I think his name is Roger Craig Smith if I remember correctly. The Internet will correct me if I'm wrong. Anyway, or I'll insert this later in the edit. Who knows, It'll be fun for all of us.

07:59
Case
But like, may I primitively say sorry Matt.

08:04
Matt
Right, Exactly. All funny.

08:07
Sam
Say sorry to Matt.

08:08
Matt
Right. Sorry Matt. All funny. Sorry future me. All hilarious. Also if I don't cut any of this, but like Ben Schwartz I think did a great job with the character. Embodied what Sonic has been, especially in the Modern games where he has more personality and there's more narrative. But like Also Jim Carrey's Dr. Robotnik is kind of like a no brainer. Especially considering we hadn't seen Jim Carrey as like the Ace Ventura era, the Mask era, like wacky off the wall character in a while. And while the Dr. Robotnik in the Modern Games is. Is kind of wacky, but not in that kind of way. It fits so well in every scene he's in. He shines, he is just having a blast and I am absolutely here for it, you know, and like even Lee Majube, I'M definitely mispronouncing that.

08:56
Matt
And I apologize in advance. Who plays Agent Stone. Also great. Like, the whole supporting cast is good, too. I think that the reason this movie is. Is good. Is okay to good is because of the cast, because the writing has some misses. The obvious product placement drives me bonkers. But, like, also, you got to get a movie like this made and Sega wasn't going to shell out all the cash for it because they've been burned before. So, like.

09:21
Case
Yeah. Do they even have the cash for it at this point? You know, this isn't. It's hard to know this isn't the 90s.

09:25
Matt
Well, so Sega is. I mean, while Sega is known for Sonic, their. Their franchise, Yakuza, has been selling like gangbusters overseas and now in the States especially. So, like, they have other properties that are doing well. So Sega as a software developer isn't suffering like it once was. But for sure, who knows just how much money Sonic Team and that branch of Sega wanted to put into this. But I had a blast. Like, I laughed out loud a lot. You know, a lot of the jokes really land. So, like, for me, I think that, you know, the fail. When we get to it, the failures in this movie have nothing to do with the cast.

09:58
Case
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't even really call anything like, a hard failure. I would at worst say it's a scenario of like. So I wouldn't even say that this is a movie that is, like, steeped in failure or has, like, real failures going on. I think it's just that they don't necessarily take the most interesting possible route. It's very safe, is the thing. Like, I kept, I kept making notes while I was watching it, being like, oh, there's a lot of, like, Masters of the Universe energy or really Thor, like, specifically the, like the first MCU Thor, where it's a fish out of water kind of just wandering around.

10:29
Matt
It's.

10:29
Case
He's outside of the norm kind of this environment and ultimately that people are interested in him because of those factors. There's even a lot of blue lightning and so forth going on in here. But, like, it's. It's that same kind of vibe now. He's a little more tuned into product placement, into like, all the pop culture references we know about for Sonic, because he doesn't just arrive and the movie starts. It's. He arrives and has some time in Green Hill Zone and kind of doesn't have any friends besides pop culture. Yeah, like that. That's how, you know that it's. It works as a way to justify all, like, all the personality quirks we associate with Sonic the Hedgehog. But it, you know, it's very Cookie cutter is ultimately the. The thing, like the movie that we get, all the beats are appropriate.

11:13
Case
The spot where he and James Marston, I'm never going to call him by his character name, start getting into a fight while they're driving is like, oh, well, this is the spot in Act 2 where you get into a fight, because that's the spot where you do. And it, like, didn't really seem too prompted. It just was there for the sake of it. Like the. The story beats were like a little. A little too easy to choreograph. But aside from that, it was fine. Again, like, it's a. It's a fine movie. It looked good. All the actors were charming. B.

11:41
Sam
It's a B. Yeah, it's pretty classic in its form. And Sonic's relationship with Donut Lord is charming on some level. And that's the alternative to James Morton. I'm gonna probably call him that for the rest of it because I really like that. And I mean, I think that there are definitely charming things about this film. But you're right, they played it very, very safe. And if it were not for the very charming cast, no one is as dumb as Adam Pallius character in this movie.

12:18
Matt
Yes, correct.

12:19
Sam
It's like, literally, he is possibly the dumbest character ever written. Like, he doesn't know how to use phones properly or any. Like, he's just. He's bad. He's bad at his job and he's. He's written that way. And again, Adam Pelley is a very funny person and so he can sell it. Someone else in that role, it would have been a lot worse. And again, so again, this movie fell a lot on the shoulders of the cast to kind of carry it through and make it okay for it to kind of like be enjoyable. I mean. And honestly, they did a great job because it was enjoyable to watch. I was cheering like a child for Sonic at the end. Like, you know, laughed when James Marston was talking to the donuts and then laughed again when Sonic called him Donut Lord.

13:14
Sam
Very, very, you know, sincerely. Like, that was the name he had given him. And I think that's it. Like, everyone on this cast was very sincere with even how wacky they were going to get. Did we get a quicksilver fox, quicksilver esque scene with Sonic?

13:32
Matt
Of course we did. I mean, I think that's just that's the speedster standard now. And honestly, I don't mind it because I want to follow the action, right? And I do like that. At least when we get that in the bar scene, like Sonic is like giving wedgies and pulling people's hats over their heads, like, making it more immature and silly. I like the idea of marketing Sonic as this child out of water, right? Because we don't really know his age in the games. And so this idea of making him kind of like a kid and just trying to have fun as a kid does play pretty well if you think about the cartoons that came before and some of the comics and stuff like that. But like, also there were people complaining like, it's not a Sonic story.

14:08
Matt
And I like, I'm gonna look into the lens of the camera that the listeners can't see and go, great. What's Sonic's story based on? The games alone, without the comics, without the cartoons. What Sonic's story, You can't tell me because in the games, even the modern games, it's an isolated I'm stopping Robotnik because he's doing a thing story. In almost every game, even one of the more recent ones, Sonic forces like Robotnik's raised an army. He's trying to destroy the world, and you team up with a created character that you make to stop him. The comic books do have a ton of lore, and so do the cartoons, but the mass audience knows Sonic 1, 2 and 3 and Sonic and Knuckles. The Genesis games are the most well known games and they don't have much Sonic and Knuckles.

14:58
Matt
Sonic 3 and Knuckles has the most story of any of them. And it's all vignettes. There's no dialogue. And so I think doing a kid's road trippy buddy comedy is a good way to give Sonic some relatability. And since we have now, we're recording this. Since now or I don't know how I'm trying to word this. The trailer for the second movie is out and it does seem like the second movie is going to go more balls to the wall Sonic lore with the introduction of Knuckles, played by Ildris Elba, who swears he's not going to make that character sexy. But Ildrys, I'm sorry, you have no control over that. That is not up to you, my friend. It is up to me and everybody else.

15:41
Matt
But like, it does look like, especially the way this movie ends also, which we'll get to, they're gonna go more bonkers balls to the wall in the second movie and they played it safe in the first movie to make the money to be able to do that. And from a business perspective, that makes a lot of sense. And I think there's still a lot of good. Even though, yes, every beat is pretty predictable. Like even when Sonic gets hurt and he's not getting up and then he does recover. Like, all of those beats are super predictable, but the cast absolutely sells it to hell and back. From the small cast members to the ones who are at the top of the call sheet.

16:15
Case
Yeah, I'm going to push back a little bit because I agree that there isn't a coherent. This is the Sonic lore and I don't want this just to be Sonic Sat am.

16:24
Matt
Right.

16:24
Case
I did feel that there were elements of the Sonic franchise that I would have liked to see a little bit more of in this movie. And we'll talk about that during the pitch territory. But it felt very disconnected from any of that. Besides it being set in Green Hill. Was it Green Hill Zone?

16:41
Matt
Well, it's Green Hills, Montana.

16:43
Case
Like which, you know, fine, whatever. Like the main story. Fine. This being an origin story more for Robotnik than anything else. Also fine. Like, you know, we're going to get to a Robotnik who has like, you know, a built up infrastructure and so forth. I thought the robots that he had in this worked pretty well for most of the things you need Robotnik to do. And, and I will say, like, there are a lot of these movies where you say like third act problems. This does not have a third act problem. The third act problem, or rather the third act here, a lot of fun. It's where we really got there. But there were some things, you know, I would have liked a little bit more of a world that he came from.

17:20
Case
Like a, like, you know, in my pitch I'll be like, could we spend like a minute or two more in his, like in his home dimension before he comes to this one? You know, could we have some more stakes in general? Because like right now they just want to capture Sonic and Sonic, aside from like trying to defend his new friends and his home doesn't have like a lot of really trying to stop Robotnik. You know, like, we could up the stakes a little bit, especially as we get towards like later in the movie. But yeah, like, I don't want this to be sounding sad. I am. I definitely don't want it to be the syndicated Sonic cartoon. We don't need a robot chicken just going around like making fun of like the dozer and the monkey ones.

17:58
Matt
Excuse me, sir. Their names are Scratch and Grounder.

18:01
Case
Thank you. I couldn't remember.

18:03
Matt
Well, yeah, I mean, also, part of it is like, I'm a big Sonic nerd, and with some exceptions, I can go into average movies about things I love and have a good time. See my Twitter feed and how I won't shut up about the Venom movies. Right. Like, I. We did the first one here on the show, and ultimately there too. I said I loved it because it gave Venom of personality and it was fun, even though it wasn't the same. And I can say the same of this for the most part. I agree with you, Case. I think some more Lore stuff would be nice, especially since the opening is with the Echidna tribe that Knuckles hails from, and we're getting Knuckles in the second movie. Obviously that's a connecting thread.

18:40
Matt
But like, Longclaw, I don't think exists anywhere else, was just in this movie and was fine. But I would have liked Longclaw more if we got more time with her. Right. Or knew what her purpose was or how she found Sonic. Because there are other hedgehogs in this world, especially in the Sat. I am cartoon. He has an uncle, I believe, and so like that kind of stuff. I agree. There could have been more of, but we could have gotten a way worse movie than what we got. Especially considering, you know, Mario Brothers, which I was also here for, to talk about Final Fantasy, which I was also here to talk about. Like, you know, we got. We got this and we got Detective Pikachu, which are both pretty strong.

19:17
Matt
I'd say Detective Pikachu is the better of the two, but both very strong video game movies. Mortal Kombat, even while wasn't perfect, I thought was a pretty strong video game movie. And so, like, I think that I'm. I'm happy that we got what we did. And like, I want to talk about my number one favorite thing about this movie. Since we're going to eventually get to the negatives, I want to start with the positives. Yeah, yeah, let's go for my number one positive is Jim Carrey. Full stop, flat out, Jim Carrey is himself in this movie. He, you know, I grew up on the Ace Ventura movies, which don't age great. And like the Mask and, you know, Dumb and Dumber. Dumb and Dumber. Surprisingly, age is okay, but, like, I love those Samsonites. Way off. Like, I love Jim Carrey.

20:04
Matt
I've always been a fan. I loved his standup. I loved him on In Living Color. Color. Like, he's one of my lifelong Favorite comedy people that's still alive, RIP Robin Williams, who I also love but is unfortunately no longer around, doing this kind of stuff. And so when I heard he was going to be Robotnik and everyone was like, I don't know, I went, yes, perfect. Let's get wild. Like that first scene where he shows up and talks to Neil McDonough and like, is it. Is it like. It's just like, I'm just laughing. I'm just laughing at it. And like, then, like, doing the robotic movements, talking about his iq. Like, every scene he's in is a joy. There's never a moment where I'm annoyed that he's on screen. The scene where he's dancing while creating robots and examining the quill.

20:47
Matt
The whole latte scene, like, you know, of course I want a latte. I love the way you make them. Like, it's all classic Jim Carrey nonsense. And it. It is absolutely the backbone of the film and why it works. And everyone else just steps up to meet his craziness. Every scene that he's in with. With Ben Schwartz's voice, at least, and every scene he's in with Donut Lord, like, they. The scene where.

21:12
Case
Where.

21:14
Matt
Where Donut Lord punches him in the face. Like, it's such a good scene and it's set up so well. Like, I. I just love how much fun Jim Carrey is having and I just hope they let him be as ridiculous in the second one, because it looks like the second one's following the plot of how in Sonic 3 and Knuckles thinks Sonic is stealing the emeralds and Robotnik convinces Knuckles that Sonic is the enemy. And from the trailer it seems like that's the case too. And so I'm curious how they play that out in this world they've built versus the original Sonic world. But, like, absolutely. Jim Carrey is firing on all cylinders and is a delight to watch from start to finish.

21:51
Case
Yeah, I mean, I would agree. Like, Jim Carrey is definitely one of the big highlights of this movie. I will say that it's not my top part, but he's definitely a big highlight for me.

22:00
Matt
Yeah, I think it's just the comedy here is pretty good, even for a movie that's just okay. And I appreciate that it's not. It's hard to get me to laugh out loud, especially when I'm watching something at home. And the fact that when I watched it on Hulu and still laughed out loud at parts like the donut, like him talking to the donut, that made me smile that made me really happy that the comedy is that intact, that I can still laugh out loud at jokes I've seen before already. Because some movies, you know, you get a chuckle. Like Scott Pilgrim, I've watched a thousand times now. And I chuckle at the comedy parts, but, like, I know they're coming, so they rarely make me laugh out loud anyway. I'm going to shut up about Jim Carrey, but that was, like, my number one.

22:36
Matt
I have others, but I'll let you guys mention some favorites also.

22:40
Case
Case, do you have any thoughts? I feel like I've said my piece on Jim Carrey. I liked him a lot.

22:47
Sam
I was just like. I was like, oh, he looks like he's going to say something. No, no.

22:50
Case
That's why I pointed.

22:52
Sam
Wow, we're batting a thousand here. I happen to. I thought Jim Carrey was great. Yeah, Definitely his classic stuff. And he made me laugh a lot. And I loved his mustache. Kudos to hair and makeup and costumes in general for this. It was lovely. But for me, the standout was Ben Schwartz's voice. I think he really sold comics. He sold Sonic's Dilemma. And I felt like this adult person really encapsulated this adolescent child and the struggles that he was going with. And I will be honest, listeners, I am a sucker for found families. So the fact that this little blue alien hedgehog is running around pretending that the entire town is just his family and living in that delusion so that his loneliness doesn't get to him, that really, like, struck a chord with me.

23:54
Sam
And I was just like, I'm kind of emotional about Sonic's mental state. And I hope he, like, finds someone to love by the end of it. And he does. He gets his found family, you know, but it's, like, lovely. Like, I mean, I love the fact that he's running through town and he's telling you all about the town, right? And usually exposition like this can be kind of annoying. And yes, this is cookie cutter, but it's done so well with him running around telling you each of the jobs of things in this tiny town that he really loves that he's in, and the guy that he has a fight with that no one believes that exists.

24:26
Matt
Like everyone believes with the sanic drawing. The sanic meme drawing in the movie. Like, there's so many Easter eggs like that I love. In his room at the end of the movie, there are maracas for Samba de Amigo, which is a rhythm game that Sega makes. He eats a chili dog, which, of course, and then loves it like, I love those Easter eggs. They're so good.

24:47
Sam
And I love that he just kind of like the way you can tell that it's just love from the get go, that this character's got a lot of love. And so I think that it's great. I think that they did a really good job, you know, kind of saying like, hey, we're going to make this movie. And yes, we are going to make it by the numbers and we are going to make it safe, but we're going to make sure that any young people, any children watching this are going to get pulled in. And that's really what Sonic's job is here. That's why, you know, marketing wise, they're gonna make him into this adolescent child kind of thing. Because you gotta have someone for the kids to connect with, honestly. And it works. It works.

25:33
Sam
He still manages to be kind of Looney Tunes esque and slaps sticky and. But he's still smart and he's quippy and still fun for everyone. So I'm gonna give my nod to Ben Schwartz over Jim Carrey.

25:51
Matt
That's fair. That's legit. I mean, I'm a big Ben Schwartz fan too. And like other Easter eggs that are even Sega related, like, he's reading Flash comics when he's in his little area. Like, which of course, like, if you're gonna make him read a comic book, makes sense he'd read Flash. And also it's, you know, it's just like that's one of the most iconic speedsters. Like, I also love that this movie doesn't do any relationship tropes like Tika Sumter and James Marsden. Their relationship is pretty strong and pretty cutesy. And I see a lot of it of me and my partner in that relationship. But also like towards the third act, when he shows up with Sonic, she gets annoyed. She's like, we're going to talk about this. But there's no like big fight and blow up.

26:32
Matt
And he has to beg her to understand. Like, it's movie magic. They just, they love each other. She wants to help. She knows how kind hearted her husband is and trusts him. And I love that because any other movie would have been like, well, now they have to have a fight and then James has to go out on his own and she has to come around. None of that. She's in. She knows her husband. Let's do this. Because that's. It's often in movies, you know, marital fights are often depicted like, oh, if you're Married. You fight a lot. And that's not untrue. I fight with my spouse, but for the most part, like if I come to her with a problem, she trusts me and if it's something I need, she helps me.

27:06
Matt
You know, unless it's something super like I'm sure if I showed up with an alien, she'd have some questions. But like she would help me.

27:14
Case
You know, understandably the circumstances are weird.

27:17
Matt
Right. But she knows that I have a kind heart and would help me. And that's reflected here. And I love that. It's not they don't take this opportunity to make them fight. It's just they are in love, understand each other and they're gonna figure this thing out together.

27:29
Sam
Yeah, well, and she's also a vet, so she kind of.

27:31
Matt
I love that too.

27:32
Sam
Puts aside whatever questions she has because there is an injured, albeit alien animal and like vet takes over. Right. Like it's just like, we're gonna talk about this, but first emergency to take care of this animal.

27:49
Matt
Yeah.

27:49
Sam
Tux. Great. Okay. So I do. Yeah, she's great.

27:55
Case
Yeah. For me, like the cast I think is great. The voices are great. The thing that I just kept loving and was really hammered home the second the credits started was the post production on this movie. The general aesthetic. Obviously the redesign of Sonic is a big thing about it all. But just from the opening where we get the rings instead of the stars for the Paramount logo, that was super cute. And then the ending credits, I could watch those all goddamn day. It's all done in the style of Sonic the hedgeh, the 16 bit games. And it looks so goddamn perfect and makes the whole movie fit better into like a Sonic the Hedgehog, like mind space by. By way of being represented in that form. Like, I just loved it. I want that game.

28:38
Matt
I've said that on Twitter so many times. I'm like, I would play like SEGA give me a three stage game for free on Steam. And I would play it like when one of the new Yakuza games were coming out, they totally took another SEGA game, Streets of Rage that they make and reskinned it with the two main characters from Yakuza, Kiryu Kazuma and Goro Majima. And like it's just two stages based on Kamurocha where they're from. And it's free and you can just play Streets of Rage, but it's the Yakuza characters. So like just do that. SEGA just give me a Sonic game.

29:11
Case
Have it be like an expansion pack for Sonic Mania? Yeah, where you just like DLC for Sonic Mania. It'd be amazing.

29:17
Matt
Just free DLC where you can just run around as only Sonic and do like three different stages from the movie or something. Yeah, I think that would be wonderful.

29:24
Case
I mean, fuck, I'll spend five bucks on that. It doesn't even have to be free. Sonic Mania is great. I would love more levels, especially ones that like. And then they could do this for all the future Sonic games. Why not?

29:37
Matt
But I agree. When I was in theater and those credits started to roll, I was like, this is cool. Like, if I were Jim Carrey and I had a 16 bit version of my head on screen, that would be my avatar on any platform I'm on forever. Like, it's just such a cool little thing. And shows the love that this writing team and this design team and even the director Jeff Fowler had for Sonic. Like, it's clear that even if they are not trying to reap it's adaptation. Right? I agree with Case and we'll get into it in our pitches. I think there should have been more lore from the other media, but also adaptations have to be allowed to adapt to be different. And it's why again, because I'll say it as many times as I can.

30:18
Matt
Venom and Venom, let they be Carnage are fun, good movies because they're not trying to be the comics, they're trying to be something else. And I think they do it well. And so like, I think with adaptations like this, it's very easy to be like, well, it's not like the games or the comics, the cartoons, who cares? Did you have a good time? Did you have fun? Like, that was the biggest thing coming away from this is like, I had fun watching this and that's all I could have asked for a movie like this. Especially since it could have easily been a train wreck like our inevitable illumination Super Mario Brothers movie that I will not be convinced is going to be good. But that's another story.

30:55
Sam
It's me.

30:55
Case
Yeah, I'm totally with you.

31:00
Matt
Honestly. Still better than Chris Pratt.

31:02
Sam
It's gonna be a crappy movie. Poor Mario. He can't catch a break. At least when it comes to films. I'm so derailed by that now. I'm sorry, I'm distracting myself. Case, do you want to get us back on track?

31:24
Case
Matt, I completely agree with you. There's a lot of love for this whole franchise, just as a whole going on here. And it's a live action Sonic the Hedgehog movie. It's not going to look like the Sonic games, because those are inherently impossible settings that you couldn't really do a live action one for. I mean, like, maybe like one of the snow levels or something like that. But, like, Green Hill Zone doesn't look like a real place on purpose. It's very stylized on purpose. And like. Like all the.

31:53
Case
All the famous stages of Sonic have impossible details that, like, sure, if this was a CG cartoon, Sonic, yeah, you could probably try to stray closer to it, but they had to make concessions by virtue of it being like, all right, well, if it's going to be live action actors, and we don't want to do that sonic 2006 scenario of having, like, really weird relationship between all these characters, which, thank God they didn't. I think that's just the thing. You knew Sonic was going to be in the real world. Like, he was going to be around real people. And thus kind of the choices either make that just not weird, like a who Framed Roger Rabbit? Kind of scenario, or make him a fish out of water and they went with a fish out of water because that's the easier script to write.

32:37
Case
And I think that makes sense. Although now I'm saying that out loud, and I'm like, can you imagine who Framed Roger Rabbit? But for video game mascots, I mean.

32:44
Matt
We got that it was Rick and Ralph, and it was very good. The first one anyway. But, yeah, no, I agree. I think that going that route makes the most sense and also allows for some of the comedy beats to be stronger, like discovering chili dogs, giving them all nicknames, that kind of stuff, you know. It also allowed us to get to see Sonic just be Sonic on his own a little bit. Like, the baseball scene is a lot of fun, and of course, the emotional pivot point for the movie. But I agree also about the special effects, like Sonic spines. It's very easy seeing drawings in video games to think of them as big, just three big spikes, but they never were. And so the detail, like.

33:25
Matt
And every time Doctor, like, it must have been a physical prop, but when Dr. Robotnik is holding the quill, like, it must be a physical prop. But it looks so cool. And to see Sonic in that light and how he was designed was really cool and much better than that initial with teeth design. That gave me nightmares.

33:42
Sam
Yeah, I think his face was so furry, too. I don't know what it was about. Like, it was. It's so textured. Like, his whole face is so textured in the original, and it was thinner. I don't know. There's a lot. I'm sorry. I'm having classes.

33:58
Case
Yeah. All the proportions.

34:00
Sam
The legs were too long. The legs were so long.

34:03
Case
It is possible that a listener doesn't know what we're talking about, which is that when the initial test, was it footage or was it just stills?

34:11
Matt
It was the initial trailer for the movie.

34:13
Case
So when that came out, Sonic had this design that was an attempt at taking the classic Sonic kind of look and updating it to look a little bit more possible, I guess, humanoid.

34:23
Sam
Well, not just humanoid, but also more hedgehog. Because the nose was actually more narrow, like an actual hedgehog's nose. And it had, like, a little pointed up, so you could, like, see up his nostrils, too, in some of the sea. I don't. There was a lot of things that disturbed me, guys, so I can't forget it.

34:43
Case
Long story short, it looked real bad. It didn't really look like Sonic, and it didn't look like a thing that should be. And so, like, the audience, like, fans, just were like, not doing this. Like, cannot do it. Unsubscribe, unsubscribe. And there was a scramble.

35:00
Sam
I want to say that I understand that we have gotten so better, so much better at creating textured hair. And that must have been very exciting for the special effects team. But I'm glad they pulled it back because I think that's what it is, because it was, like, all over his face. It's just textured in the original. So, yeah. Glad you made his face move.

35:24
Case
Matt, do you remember, in terms of the timeline when this. When the trailer dropped versus, like, when we got the first Detective Pikachu trailers? So, like, I feel like they were.

35:32
Matt
Close, but I can't remember was for sure before, I believe. But I'm not 100% on that. But, yeah.

35:39
Case
So that even, like, emphasizes the whole, like. Because, like, the. The look for the Pokemon there, like, we get these textures, we get fur, we get, you know, scales and so forth. But they still have the. They still are recognizably the characters from the games. And I think that audiences were just like, no, this is too much of a deviation. This does not look like a thing that we should. Again, does not look like a thing that should be. And there was a lot of uproar. And this is probably the most controversial part about this movie, which is that the animators had to work overtime to make it look palatable to audiences. They completely redesigned it. Obviously, it's CG in a movie that's going to be mocapped and so forth. So it's all stuff that would be done in post anyway.

36:20
Case
So it's not like they had to reshoot it or anything like that. Although maybe a few shots that they had to adjust because of changes in dimensions. But, like, you know, it's not really like, a big concern there. It's. It's all about, like, the crunch that it was putting on the animators.

36:34
Sam
Yeah.

36:34
Matt
And so they pushed back the release date, too. Yeah. And, like, I mean, the video game industry is no stranger to crunch. On my podcast, Fun and Games Name drop, we talk about it often when we can, but, like, it's. I'm of two minds about it. Right. Like, I rarely advocate for gamers to rise up and be assholes and be like, I don't like this thing. Change it. Right. Because that's not how art works. You kind of get what the vision is. Like, people have a vision and you accept it. But in this case, it did work out to the benefit of the movie. I think it was a better, bigger success because they changed that.

37:09
Matt
But again, I am leery about the whole gamers rise up thing because it sucks most of the time and it's usually related to shit like Gamergate and other bad things that happen within the industry. And so, you know, I'm leery about that kind of uprising. But that said here, I do think that this version of Sonic we get is better. I believe that the person who did the new design is the same person who's done the recent animatics that have been on Sega's page and has done, like, recent animations for Sonic Mania and stuff. I think it's like that same designer redesigned Sonic in the same way that there was a artist who did realistic versions of Pokemon before the Detective Pikachu movie came out, and they hired that person to work on that movie to bring them to life.

37:58
Matt
And so that kind of stuff is really cool that people who have this kind of fan love getting incorporated into this. I mean, the reason Sonic Mania exists at all is because Christian Whitehead was illegally porting and modding existing Sonic games to make new games. And Sega, instead of shutting him down, said, why don't you work for us and help us make a new retro game and port the old games to mobile and other platforms? And he did. And so, like, that kind of thing this movie still has in its bones is they hired someone who's done Sonic design elsewhere to now work on the movie and got paid to work on the movie, I assume, which is pretty cool. Also, you know, I think that kind of collaboration is only going to breed good results.

38:42
Matt
And also, I just want to go on the record to say that movies can be just okay. We want movies to be great. And that's the whole premise of this show, is to pitch it, to make it better. But also, people getting mad that it was only okay is dumb. Movies can just be okay and fun. They don't have to be masterpieces. I just want to throw that out there.

39:02
Sam
I 100% agree with you, especially because this podcast would no longer exist if they were all great. So please.

39:08
Case
That's true.

39:09
Sam
Please, please still be just okay. This is fine. It's fine. And honestly, I think that, like. Like, I have a T shirt that says, your favorite band sucks, and it doesn't have, like, a favorite band in there. Because I need people to know that, like, people like what they like. And also, it's probably trash. Like, everything you like is probably trash. Even the things we think is great, in 10 years from now, we might look back at them and think it's trash. Ace Vetura. Like, you know, and so I think that it's okay for a movie to just be okay and to be enjoyable and to be an escape. And I think that this movie does that really well. It is a really good escape.

39:52
Sam
And it's, you know, it's good that they respond it, because I'm actually looking at pictures of the old Sonic now, and I think the problem's the eyes. I'm gonna tell you guys, I think that's the problem.

40:04
Matt
Oh, not the human teeth.

40:08
Sam
The human teeth are a little unnerving, but they didn't change the teeth that much, actually. They just rounded them out a bit. But the eyes are much smaller. Like, much smaller. And I think that with the Pokemon, they didn't change the dimension of the eyes. And the eyes are the window to the soul. And that's why we couldn't recognize Sonic for who.

40:32
Case
Yeah, it makes me think of those, like, sketches that they would do for, like, style guides for Disney cartoons, where it's like, okay, so the head has to be this size in relation to the rest of their body. The eyes should be this size. You know, trying to be. Here's. Here's how to maximize cuteness. And I think that they did not take those to heart with the initial design. And then we're like, oh, right, this is important, because otherwise we're going to start stepping towards the Uncanny Valley in a way that no one wants to be. And.

41:00
Sam
And they created a monster.

41:01
Case
I'm Glad that they made that step. But it's like one of those things where kind of like the Mass Effect 3 rewrite, like every time fan culture gets a win like this, it has consequences. And so, you know, it's worrisome to think that fans think that they could petition to completely rewrite or redesign productions that are way further in or way more integrated. Like, again, this is all post production here for a mocap character. Like, all you're doing is changing what you are already inserting in, like in after effects into those scenes. Whereas, like, some of these other ones are like, can't you just completely redo a shot with a character who is a human actor in a space? Like, I'm seeing that right now for. For Thor Love and Thunder. People are upset about like theoretical look of Thor that we've seen.

41:46
Case
And it's like.

41:47
Matt
But he's.

41:47
Case
That's. There's definitely that costume. Like, he might not be wearing it in all the shots, but that costume exists.

41:53
Matt
Well, I mean, yeah. And like, when there are spoilers related to the Last of Us Two, people wanted to rewrite a scene in that because they were upset that a car. Something happened to a character. I'm trying to be very broad for those who haven't played it, but like, I just. Yeah, I think that give. Empowering the gamer community finger quotes is not often good, but in this case there was a good result. I also want to say last thing on the design. I love how they. Because Sonic. Sonic in the games has one giant iris with two little like one giant eyeball essentially, with two irises. It's. There's no like separation or nothing. The way they nod to that in this is he has white fur between his eyes. So it looks like the giant eyeball, but it's not.

42:42
Matt
And I think like, clever design like that should be rewarded and is really cool. And ultimately I was very happy with how Sonic looked and moved on screen. The only time he looks like he doesn't really exist is when he's being carried by Donut Lord. Because it's hard to make carrying fake things look real. It's my only issue in Detective Pikachu as well. When justice is carrying Pikachu after he's been hurt, it doesn't look real. But like, I've just accepted that often if you're carrying an imaginary thing in movies, no matter how many sacks of sand you give somebody, it's not going to feel the same as actually carrying a being, which is fine.

43:18
Case
So why don't we shift gears into the things that we didn't really care for with this movie? Because I feel like, you know, design, great actors, great whatnot. Like, that said, I'm leading this. This pivot. I don't have big notes. Like, aside from it being like, well, it's a little cookie cutter. There's a few spots where you can, like, see, like, see the plot twist from a mile away. And by plot twist, I mean, like, ooh, they're going to argue. There's no big spot that's like, damn.

43:47
Matt
I mean, I think it's all little things. Like, I would say that the. The intro where we get to find out where Sonic's from and stuff. I feel like there could be more there a little bit of more time with Longclaw. Like, spoilers for this movie. Obviously, if you're listening, you've seen it. If not spoilers, there's a post credit scene with Tails, who in the games, Sonic finds Tails. I believe he rescues Tails, and Tails is like, I'm going to stick with you. And they become best buds in this. It looks like Tails is looking for Sonic. It would have been. I know they wanted to keep it as a surprise.

44:18
Matt
It's cool that the original video game voice actress is still voicing Tails, but, like, it would have been nice to see not maybe Tails, but other, like, creatures from Sonic's lore running around with him and playing with him. So it's established that people know who Sonic is because Sonic thinks he's an orphan, but obviously Tails knows who he is. And I'm sure we'll find out why in the second movie. But it just did seem a little disconnected. Right? Like, there should have been more of a thread to why that's the post credits, other than for the fans. Like, it's Tails. I love tales. Like, that's a great post credits. But I felt like it could have been more connected to the narrative, I think. Also, like, the blatant product placement, like the Olive Garden gift card.

44:59
Matt
And they said multiple times, when you're there, you're family. Like, I know why they did it. I wish there was another way to do it, you know, like, do something like Wayne's World did. Like, looking and winking at the camera. Like, if Sonic were to break the fourth wall, we would give it a second thought. Right? Like, we'd just be fine.

45:16
Case
But then, like, the end, like, the end act like jingle that they played, like.

45:21
Matt
And that brings me to another downside. Sonic is known for its music. It's had A variety of composers over the years. The sonic music is iconic and we get a little bit of it, I think in the credits sequence. But for the most part this is basic. I don't even know who the composer is, but it felt very Henry Jackman sweeping. It's a superhero movie score, which is fine, especially for the big moments in the third act. But I would have loved some more 16 bit sounding like, you know, pixel style music in the game. Sort of like Scott Pilgrim did from time to time. The music's not bad. I just feel like it's not really memorable. And that's kind of a bummer because like these kinds of movies can have really good music.

46:08
Matt
You know, there are a ton of action movies that have come out recently and games that have had great 16 or 16 bit like soundtracks. And while I think a whole movie with like sonic sounding music might have been a little much. Then again, go listen to Ice Cap zone from Sonic 3 and tell me that's not a banger. But I just wish there was more sonic feeling music in this because it would have fit for the final battle or for like any of his chase sequences would have. That kind of style of music would have been a lot of fun to have.

46:35
Case
Yeah, it doesn't all need to be chip tunes, but it would be nice to like things like Sonic Adventure had like a lot of like rockin kind of music. Like you can do full instrumental stuff, but that's true. Yeah, like a little bit more of an exciting soundtrack to get your blood pumping would be nice.

46:53
Matt
Yeah.

46:53
Sam
Yeah, I agree wholeheartedly on that because like the songs on it were. They were fine. Like no problem with Don't Stop Me now and things like that.

47:02
Matt
Oh yeah, those songs like the Needle Drops were great. Yeah.

47:06
Sam
But. But I think at least for like the last act, you know, for that final act for all that stuff that happened there should have been something there that was more than just in the credits. So I agree with you. Yeah, it was a missed opportunity. Maybe they'll. They'll do something in the second movie. Who knows? Fingers crossed.

47:26
Matt
Yep. It's just also because like characters like Knuckles has his own theme throughout the games, especially the third game and the Knuckles attachment. Sonic 3 and Knuckles, famously, if you've never played it, came out as two separate games that then connected like a transformer and made one giant game, which is the best Sonic game ever made. Anyway. Every time Knuckles would appear, a theme would play and so it'd be cool like if in the next game we get like an orchestral version of Knuckles theme from the third game or something like that would be a fun little thing because it's only like a 30 second looping clip. So like that kind of integration musically I think would be really cool. The sound design was on point the whole movie. So like, I don't really have a ton of complaints about that.

48:04
Matt
I do like that when he gets shot, he drops his rings. But I think like the only complaint about that is like, I wish he bumped into him and like flew back with his arms out and then dropped all his rings. Like as an homage to like how Sonic gets it in the games or something. Like those kinds of little nitpicks I would love.

48:22
Case
Although that was such a great moment where it's like, I guess I have a bonus life. How are you not dead?

48:27
Matt
I have no idea. That whole highway sequence is like Sonic combat perfection. That's such a cool scene along with the final battle. I guess the only other nitpick I have is I don't love. I get that he's a small town sheriff and he wants to be a copy San Francisco. And you know, that's a pretty through line, logical storyline, but no cops. I don't want. I, I just wish there was something else we could have given him to do that wasn't being a cop. Because, you know, especially since he has a black partner and like it's never mentioned. They don't talk about it. There's no concern about him becoming a cop in San Francisco in a giant city while she's a person of color. Like, and I know that this kid's movie wasn't going to go there, but if that's the case, then why.

49:17
Matt
It could have been any job. He could have become a doctor somewhere. He could have become. It could have been about her becoming a vet at a major hospital in San Francisco instead or something. And he was still going to go meet her. Like any other job than cop. Because I'm tired of cops in movies, especially when people don't want like, again, I was never expecting this kid's movie to address the problem with the, with police in our society. But then it, as me, someone aware of it makes it stand out like a sore thumb a little bit when he has a partner who's a person of color.

49:48
Sam
I mean I, I think like also, I don't know that the whole like his want for excitement is like enough of a motivation. You know, like it just seems very like, just kind of like a lame through line for him to like just Realize that his sleepy town is where it's at. Like, he's always been protecting what he's wanted to protect all along, and he's had enough excitement for one day. Kind of like, well, let's pack it in now that we've got a blue space alien and head on home. I just felt like I'm like, what kind of journey are we giving to Donut Lord? I understand. I mean, honestly, wouldn't have been better if he was just like a baker, you know, like, he had like a lovely, like, bakery in town.

50:42
Sam
And his lovely wife, who's the vet, decided that she wanted to get like a nicer kind of. She wanted to open up a place to be closer to her niece and decide, you know, and maybe that's part of the tension. Oh, now we've solved the sister in law issue. Part of the tension is that he doesn't want to leave that stupid town and keeping her sister from here fixed. That's it. That's my pitch, guys. That's how I fix myself.

51:05
Matt
There you go. You fixed it.

51:07
Sam
No, but, like, but I do think that, like, you know, I thought about it and it's like, okay, like, in some ways, like, I understand we're very steeped as a society in propaganda and we cannot help ourselves. And, you know, I'm sure that if Donut Lord was an actual cop, he'd be a great cop. I mean, sure, he'd be one of the few good ones, especially because he really only yells at donuts. And that's it. There's no crime in his town. So I guess he's doing a great job. I don't know. Although, honestly, he did not take that dude seriously. And there was someone clearly harassing him. And yes, it was a blue alien, but no one took him seriously. And that is not okay. You should listen to your constituents if you're sheriff.

51:54
Sam
Kind of like this poor adolescent would have been on their own so long. So I guess maybe that's an indictment on James Marston's character right there. Just believing people are crazy. But I do think, like, it's just not. It's just not the most creative thing. Right. It's like, oh, he's.

52:13
Matt
It's easy shorthand.

52:15
Sam
Yeah, he's there to protect and serve and. But you know, well, and he's a.

52:19
Case
Small time cop or like a small town cop. So he's like a sheriff type kind of. It feels different than the sort of more organized, like, militaristic thing that people really objective. This feels more like the Classic Western. Kind of like, oh, it's like Sheriff we, you know, like, trying to protect a town from, like, on the edge of the frontier kind of vibe, which is why it's so easy shorthand. Like, it feels like all of our. All of our narratives and is satisfying in that regard.

52:45
Sam
I mean, it actually feels more like a sitcom from, like, the 30s or the 40s. Right. Like, he's like, how would he do? Like, he's just like. He just, like, he's, in a sense, small.

52:54
Matt
He's.

52:54
Sam
He's in a small town. It's called Green Hill. Might as well be called Maple Hill or any. Anything. Right. And he's just like, there's just nothing that happens there because it's just good folks that live there. Except for that crazy guy that thinks the aliens harassing him. Oh, boy. Like, gonna go yell at donuts and, you know, time people on the highway. Gar. Shucks. Like. Like, you know. So I think. I don't know. I feel like it's not the most creative idea on the face of the planet. And again, this movie relies very heavily on the fact that the cast is charming as fuck.

53:34
Case
Yeah, the movie definitely is playing into tropes and having these charming actors kind of make it work, which is why they can get away with things. Like, I really wish this movie had some kind of lore for why Sonic was fast. Like, they're like, man, he's so fast. He has, like, blue lightning when he goes too fast.

53:51
Matt
Well, they say he has a special power, though.

53:53
Case
Yeah. But I need just, like, a hint more like, I don't want, like, an info dump or a full explanation, but I want, like, just like, a little bit more of a tease at the beginning for why he's fast. So that it's not just that he's fast. It's like, oh, God, you're like, reality warping, like, energy bursting kind of fast. And maybe a little bit of a tease for, like, I don't know, some sort of chaos thing. Like a green thing that's chaotic. I don't know.

54:19
Matt
Yeah, I mean, well, because in the. In the trailer for the second one, we do see one of either the Chaos Emeralds or the Master Emerald. It's unclear what it's meant to be. And it's clear that Knuckles has this power that Sonic has. So my theory is that the Chaos Emeralds, like, give this. Can give you this power, which is not out of line for, like, Supersonic in the video games and stuff. But, yeah, I agree. I feel like, at least in the, like, Longclaw tells him he's special and has a special power, but we never find out why. And I feel like a little more why he's special would be important because then also that would be the through line to why Tails is looking for him.

54:57
Matt
He's important because he has this power from this place and Tails wants to help him or protect him or whatever it is.

55:03
Sam
Also, she totally had time to go through that portal with him. I'm just saying I have a big thing. I have a problem in general where, like, families are forced to, like, separate in films just to, like, propel a character forward to, like, a particular feeling or something like that. And it just. It always. It always just bugs me. And it bugs me, like, even at the end of shows where it's like, well, we just. We have to. We have to, like, not be together because, yeah, like, Samurai Champloo. Sorry if you haven't watched it in the last, like, 15 years for everyone listening. But, like, the end of it, they just, like, they do the thing. They defeat stuff. They're good. And then they're like, okay, well, I'll be seeing you. And I'm like, why? Like, what? Like, why? Like, why?

55:48
Sam
Why do you. Like, you're clearly all get along and you defeated the thing, so now you can just, like, hang out. Because you're like each other's family, right? And they're just like, bye. And they just all, like, separate, and there's no real fucking reason. And that just always upset me. Like, I'm just like, why? And so every time, ever since then, I've been traumatized from that one show. And ever since then, whenever characters are like, without good reason or good purpose, forced to separate, like, yes, people can say, oh, she was there to, like, protect him. And it's like, yeah, but he's so young and you definitely have time to go through the portal with him. And those guys were a mile away.

56:26
Sam
And maybe I'm blaming, like, the actual people who, like, animated it for not making them closer and not making her have to fight. And I get maybe they just didn't want to kill her on screen. I get it. But. But she had time. She had time to go through. They could have stayed together. Like, and so it always bugs me. It always. I'm just like. But like, I know we don't want to start off the movie killing people, but I'm also the generation that was raised on land before time and secrets of NIMH and a whole bunch of traumatizing shit and bambi. And I am fine with some trauma if it explains why my parents can't come with me. Because if they just kick me through a door, they better be following me. Unless they're dead.

57:10
Matt
I mean, I think that's the implication is that Longclaw dies defending him. But we don't know, right? The portal closes and we don't see. But yeah, I'm with you. I think.

57:19
Sam
But not fast enough. She had time to get through.

57:22
Matt
I mean, technically Knuckles can run almost as fast as Sonic, so. Meh. But I mean. But yes, I agree. I think, Sam, what you're saying is more indicative of that whole opening having a whole host of problems. It's not. It could have been better fleshed out than it was.

57:38
Sam
Yeah, yeah.

57:39
Case
Like that's most. Most of my actual issues of this movie are like, oh yeah, that opening five minutes or 10 minutes of that sequence there could be a little bit longer, a little bit. Have a little bit more lore to tease out the rest of the movie and the universe that we're building towards.

57:51
Matt
Yeah.

57:52
Case
But from that, like, so again, the third act, I think, is really strong. So I think this movie is like weirdly lopsided, where it starts off a little, that's weaker in general and then like keeps picking up, you know, by the time Robotnik's there. Okay, yeah, we're moving like we're on all, like firing on all cylinders. And then the third act is like wild and crazy. And then the end credits are amazing. So good.

58:11
Sam
Yeah, absolutely. You know what's also amazing?

58:15
Matt
What's that?

58:15
Sam
AD breaks.

58:16
Matt
AD breaks are pretty awesome.

58:18
Case
They are pretty cool.

58:19
Matt
Yeah. I think as the guest, I'm gonna take it upon myself, since I edit this anyway, to say, hey, Case, why don't we take a break and hear a word from our sponsor, one of the other great shows on this network. What do you think?

58:30
Case
I think that's a fantastic idea. Let's all enjoy a good chili dog and when we come back, we'll give some pitches.

58:39
Matt
Hi, I'm Matt, aka Stormageddon, and I'm the host of CPOV autographs@ certainpov.com it is a bi weekly interview series where I interview folks from all over the arts, from writers to comedians to magicians to musicians, even actors, historians, podcasters, pretty much anyone who's willing to chat with me for a little bit. If you like interesting conversations with even more interesting people, go to certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, music is life and life.

59:08
Case
Is good and we're back. All right, so who wants to take up the rings first? Who wants to. Who wants to lead the charge on giving a pitch?

59:16
Matt
Well, so we know the rules are Keis can't go first. Keis has to go last.

59:20
Case
Yeah, this is true.

59:21
Sam
It's true. He has too many notes and he cannot go first.

59:24
Matt
So, Sam, as a gentleman, I will ask you what you prefer and then we will go that route.

59:28
Sam
Listen, I usually say guess first.

59:31
Matt
All right, then I'll go first. I think our pitches are all going to be pretty similar. I picked a movie that is good enough that there are some tweaks that would make it great. And I think we all agree that the first like five to ten minutes with Longclaw could use some fixing. I think that I don't mind that they made up a character for the movie. I thought Longclaw was kind of cool. I thought that it was a cool idea to have this kind of like mother hen or mother owl in this case character. But we didn't get any time with her. So I want one of two solutions. Either extend this to closer to 20 minutes. Give us some more of Sonic's life in this world. Hanging out with his friends who are all also anthropomorphic tiny animals.

01:00:13
Matt
You know, getting to know Longclaw a little bit. Why is she watching Sonic? I'm guessing this is development that they may give us in the sequel, but I think it would have been better suited up front here. Or remove Longclaw altogether and have a guardian for Sonic, another hedgehog like he's had in the cartoons or comics that can still have the same end, right? Like this is a hedgehog who's a guardian of him, who isn't his parents but is in Sonic, is in his care, warns him about the Echidna tribe that wants his power. I can't quite explain to you why you have this power, but there are. There are these legends of these objects that can grant great power and you have been exposed to them. And so I need you to just be safe, hold on to these rings.

01:00:54
Matt
If in case anything goes wrong, talk about the Echidna tribe a little more, which Knuckles hails from, who will be in the second one. And then have the attack happen, have Sonic run and leave and have this person either clearly get injured severely in a non bloody way and then the portal closed and Sonic's on his own. I think some kind of and spending more time in this place will allow us to then not only understand Sonic's actual world Mobius, if that's where he's from, because that's where he's from in all the other media. And it'll give us the expectation that characters like Tails and Knuckles exist without exclusively ruining those kinds of, you know, post credit stuff. And in this time you can also mention Mobius by name. He talks about the Loop de Doops, which is great.

01:01:40
Matt
I love that nod to the Loop de Loops in Green Heal Zone. And there's as many as he wants. I want some more world building in his old world because I get a sense that the second one's going to take us back there, right? Robotnik's going to come back to Green Hills, but I get the feeling they're ultimately going to want to bring Sonic back to where he's from. Maybe Robotnik goes there and he has to stop him there. I don't know. And I think if we had gotten more time in the first 20 minutes there, understanding his world, we could cut some of the travel scenes with James Marsden or just make the movie a little longer. It's not a terribly long movie.

01:02:15
Matt
I think adding that extra 10 minutes to explain where he came from wouldn't lose the viewers and would make the fuller through line better. I also would change the motivation to go to San Francisco. We are, we are accustomed to copaganda and a lot of stuff and it is what it is. But having a white guy dreaming of becoming a cop in a major city, not a great look. And I would change if I could. And so like Sam's idea of him being a baker baking in a small town, having an incompetent assistant played by Adam Paley, who keeps ruining things in the bakery and then wanting to be a big time baker in a major city where his partner can also be a great vet.

01:02:56
Matt
Like, I wouldn't want to take away Tika Sumter's arc as a vet because I think it's a really fun part of the second to third act. But James Marsden's profession, whether it's baker like Sam suggested, or maybe if it's. If he's someone who wants to protect people, like maybe the head of the local Town watch or even though that can have its own problems too. Like there are other jobs he could have that is, that would take him to San Francisco, make him like an actor or like. And get a little meta with it. Like he's an actor and he want. And he's in local plays directed by the incompetent director played by Adam Pally. Like literally, because it's so cookie Cutter, you could give him any occupation that's not cop and give him big dreams to bring him to San Francisco.

01:03:43
Matt
So I would change that too. And like, I love Natasha Rothwell. I love the comedy bits with her hating him, as unbelievable as it is. But then, like, have a reason, right? Other than he's not good enough for her. Because that's a pretty typical arc for relationships. One way or another, the girl's not good enough for the guy or the guy's not good enough for the girl. Like, give more substance to that story maybe or something. Because the comedy bits I don't want to get rid of. The scene where her daughter, his niece, gives Sonic his shoes is so cheesy, but it's so lovely. I, like, welled up when it happened. It's just such a sweet moment that I don't want to lose that. But I want some kind of other reason for her to dislike him, to play up that comedy more.

01:04:24
Matt
If he's a baker, I think it's even better. Like, why are you with him? He's never baked a decent thing in his life for that store. And she's like, yeah, but he cooks all the time at home. When he's not under pressure, he's great. Like, tie it into the job narrative, maybe, because it's not even that, right? Like, she doesn't hate him because he wants to be a white cop in a big city. And it's not like a racially driven thing. So, like, why does it even make.

01:04:46
Case
A joke about how her previous boyfriend was a butcher? And it's like, what next? Are you going to marry a candlestick maker after this?

01:04:52
Sam
That'd be amazing, right?

01:04:54
Matt
Like anything like that. Change that. And then the only thing I change about Robotnik just a little bit is like, I would get to the crazy doctor stuff faster. Like, that opening scene with him is great. All his scenes are great. But I think were waiting for the highway scene, right? And so getting to that maybe a little bit faster would be fine. But that's like a minor tweak because I love all of his scenes. And like, of course, in the first post credits scene or like the ending scene where he ends up in the mushroom planet, he's been blown up. So now he's got this giant mustache like in the games, and no hair. Like were waiting for that. And like he has an actual stone that he's calling Agent Stone. Like, all of that stuff is great.

01:05:35
Matt
And so I think I just wanted to get to that sooner, maybe have him blow up in here and then still get pushed through somehow or something. I don't know. Those are all the minor of Nick picks. My biggest one are those opening moments and then, like, change. Change James Marston's job, like anything but a cop. I wouldn't change anything about Sonic, honestly. I love his emotional development. I love the bar scene. I love Ben Schwartz's performance. His enthusiasm is incredible. Yeah, like, those are the. I think the two biggest things I would. I would. I would absolutely change in my pitch. That I think would just give it a better through line. And if it makes the movie a little longer, I think that's kind of okay too. Sam, it's your turn.

01:06:12
Sam
Yeah, it's my turn. I agree with everything you've said. I. I actually thought it'd be kind of cool to give him kind of like the whole, like. Like a handoff. Like, you know, like, so when you get babies with superpowers or, like, kind of things, you have them do something that's, like, absolutely crazy. And so I think it'd be cool to kind of see, like, Sonic in a community of hedgehogs, maybe being held by hedgehog parents. And he does some crazy lightning thing, and everyone is kind of like, oh. And that's when the owl shows up. And we don't have to have a lot of wording for this, right?

01:06:50
Sam
And it can just be, like, in the veil of night, and the baby can be wrapped up, and you can see the mom, you know, hitchhike, being very sad, or the dad being very sad and just being like, hurry. And the owl, Longclaw, takes him away. And so then you jump forward a little bit, and he's, like, older, and she's like, you know, don't run fast. Don't do this, like, trying to dampening his powers. But now you've already understand, like, why it's a very small thing, right? It's maybe like five, six minutes to really add on. And you know that he has another community out there that clearly wants to protect him. Because everyone looked afraid. Not necessarily of the baby, but kind of more like looking around like, oh, shit. Did anyone notice that kind of thing?

01:07:32
Sam
And so then I think that this sets up a thing where, like, it's kind of like the Sorcerer's Apprentice, right? He's in the woods with basically Merlin being taught to not, you know, exhibit certain things because he's this future powerful being. And we have to teach Sonic how to control itself and hide himself and that kind of thing. And then it's not enough because Impetuousness. And because he's a child and because he doesn't understand this and he still ends up running. And that's when the attack comes. And I think we need to see Longclaw fighting physically at least a couple of like, bad guys kicking them away from the portal or flapping them away with her wings. Because the problem is she was just standing there. And so I was like, just jump in. Just jump in. It'll close.

01:08:22
Sam
Fight them from the other side. You know, so that was my only problem. Or you have her come through the other side. I don't know how that works because I like the loneliness that eventually builds Sonic's character. So I'm fine. But I just need to see her like battling and really like kicking butt on the other side. I need to see like, you know, a ninja moment for her. And yeah, and I would definitely keep Sonic exactly the same. I mean, like his, his field moment, like realizing that he couldn't be like all the other kids really like, got me. So I, I would definitely keep that. I. Yes. Let's make him a baker. I'm. I'm on Team Matt now. I know it was partially my suggestion, but he ran with it and he's, he sold it to me.

01:09:11
Sam
Guys, like, and I'm gonna say this, he's a good baker, but there's just not enough people in the town. And so he's hungry to actually get the recognition that he deserves. But the problem is that he's always at the bakery because Adam Polly is terrible. And so he's basically spending all of his hours building up these things. And this is one of the reasons why his sister in law doesn't like him because she feels like her sister is neglected. And her sister did not go to school that long to become a vet to just be married to some small town baker who doesn't pay attention to her, who only comes home once in a While after working 16 hours covered in dough and sugar. Don't even get me started. This is just neglectful.

01:09:55
Sam
And now he wants to get up and move to a new city and you're not even done with the mortgage. Don't get me. I'm sorry. This rent could be golden. So anyway, and so like, honestly, like, that could just be part of it. The key is ambitious still, you know, like, and maybe it's not saving people, but it's just to be recognized for his greatness. And that can also deviate into someone wanting to save things. Maybe he brings home lots of strays Maybe that's also part of it. She's a vet. He likes animals. Sonic is technically a hedgehog. I mean, yes, an alien hedgehog, but a hedgehog. So maybe, like, that's why he brings Sonic home. He's always bringing home strays. Maybe that's another reason why his sister in law hates him. I mean, how many cats do you guys gotta have?

01:10:40
Sam
There are like 15 in the house and four in the backyard. Like. Like, he's just weird. He makes donuts all day and cakes and he smells like felines. It's not right. I fixed it, guys. That's it. And then you just have the complete build and you have him, like, go on this crazy, like, chase. And. And because, like, honestly, him being a cop never helps him ever in this entire film. It's not like he gets any benefits from being a police officer. It's not like he's listening to the radio. Like, it's not like he's getting tips. Like, there's nothing about him having a badge that ever helps him at all. So he might as well just be like a regular person. And since I love the nickname Donut Lord, I am sticking with Baker. Yeah, fixed it. Done. Case, your turn.

01:11:34
Case
Okay, that's perfect. And I want to piggyback off of both of y' all because, yeah, we're all saying the same thing here. All right, so like, Jazz, we're just going to keep riffing on this one. So the one thing I will say that the cop thing does for the movie as a whole is the speed gun. We get to set up how fast Sonic is, because every now and then we get random stuff, like pinged with that. And what I think is that if he's a baker, he's making donuts. He can bring them out to his favorite cop who's like, parked at a speed trap at some point. And we can have the two of them chatting and then like, wait, what was that? That. That can't be the right speed. That just like, whiz by.

01:12:09
Case
That must have been some sort of weird particulate of matter or something. I don't know why it's acting crazy right now. It's been acting crazy all day. It's like something really fast has been going through, but I haven't seen anything. That's impossible. So we can still get those speed. You know, the speed gun scenes, the speed trap scenes, but he's not the one doing it. He's just going out there because he's a nice guy and he brings donuts. To everyone. And that's why he's the donut.

01:12:30
Matt
There you go. Yeah, yeah, Sonic, keep that going. Sonic sees him giving donuts to everybody and so then he calls him Donut Lord. Yeah, I like that.

01:12:37
Case
So, Sam, your suggestion about him bringing home strays, I think is perfect because it actually nails the one. Well, one of the two things that I want to introduce that you guys haven't, because I agree the opening should have a little bit more. What I'm thinking is that it's a community of mixed animals all living together. And like, Sonic is one of the children of this mixed community of animals. And so you can see a little fox, but you don't spend too much time close to it. Like, maybe they're all like, playing. And like, for half a second you see, like, what that might be a shout out to Tails. Who knows? They're all little kids. And then something drops from the sky and, like, lands in the field right where all the kids are playing. And there's like this big explosion.

01:13:13
Case
And, like, you hear like, kids screaming, like, come quick. Something happened to Sonic. And Sonic's just standing there. And, like, he goes from being a brown hedgehog with normal looking quills to being blue with it all spiked back. Because in very early versions of the lore, they tried to do that. And his eyes are like, glisten green. And all the other kids also have green, but no one else was as close to where it fell. And so, like, Longclaw is like, we have to leave this place. And they all start fleeing. And you see them travel a little bit. You do very quick montage. It's like we traveled for years and then the echidnas come and Longclaw starts throwing out rings so all of them can escape, all of the children.

01:13:47
Case
And Sonic thinks that he is separated and landed somewhere totally different from all the others because he thinks that they all went elsewhere. And we find out in Act 2 that actually some other animals, like, got through because the government has them. And the whole, like, Robotnik using Sonic's quills, they're like, oh, this is the most energy. But all of these animals have like, little bits of like, this weird chaotic energy. And we can use it to power my drones so that we can get the Robotnik having the animals inside the robots part so his really powerful ones can be that. And that ups the stakes in the halfway point that we find out that the animals are inside the big drones.

01:14:23
Case
I mean, not the little ones, but, like, bigger ones that Robotnik has, so that it Adds to Sonic trying to free them. So that at the end of the movie it's like all these strays Sonic brings home to this community, to the Donut Lord's place. So that's like the big stake increase. And then I think in the third act at some point. And it doesn't need to be built in, but at some point Robotnik should have had a device that had a wrecking ball on it. Because this is the opening stage. This is the first boss encounter that should be there. And I'm thinking maybe like an electromagnet, like grabbing. Maybe they're in San Francisco and some sort of atlas statue or something. Like he uses an electromagnet to rip the globe off and swing it around or something like that.

01:15:05
Case
But that way we get that classic one because there's no tactical reason for it. It's deliberately the easiest boss. It's so easy to avoid. It's on purpose. Supposed to be like, okay, this is how you fight Robotnik. So here is where we get that. So that it's not because like it's a good shout out. Everyone remembers it's super recognizable, but it's an early fight kind of thing. So you do it here in this movie. And that's the one big thing I was missing for Robotnik. I wanted animals in the drones and I wanted a wrecking ball ship at one point. And I think both of those work here without it being too big of a breach. Sonic finds a couple of his friends and now they're.

01:15:40
Case
And because we established that Donut Lord brings all the strays home, now it's just like a house full of cats and also some dogs and also a blue hedgehog and a couple of his raccoon friends. We can have a couple of different anthropomorphic talking animals that are all hanging out and we get that sort of vibe that you see in. I think it's the end animation for the first Sonic game where they're all hanging out and so forth. So you can just. It's not a big Sonic thing, but it's enough that it's carries it over. And then when Tails comes, Tails eyes can also glisten a little bit with green energy right before his tails like split apart. And you see that he's got two tails and he can fly.

01:16:17
Case
Just to connect a little bit more of that kind of lore going on there and to make the vibe be like that. They already were afraid of the chaos energies and that's why they had to flee from the get go. And specifically the ones that were touched by the chaos energies that the Echidnas are after.

01:16:30
Matt
Right.

01:16:31
Sam
I have to say that I love this even more because it means more found family.

01:16:38
Matt
Yes.

01:16:39
Case
Yes, exactly.

01:16:41
Sam
And I'm like, not only did he find a new family, but he found his family, and now they're one big family of a united family. And I love it. Yeah.

01:16:53
Case
All living in Green Hill.

01:16:54
Matt
All living in Green Hill.

01:16:57
Sam
All thanks to the Donut Lord.

01:17:00
Matt
Yeah.

01:17:01
Sam
All hail the Donut Lord.

01:17:03
Matt
I'm in.

01:17:04
Case
Maybe he finds the Donut Lord because he sees a giant donut on the top of his shop and he thinks it's a ring at first.

01:17:10
Matt
Yeah.

01:17:10
Case
It's his way home.

01:17:11
Matt
Yeah. Yeah. He jumped. There's a clip of him, like, jumping through it and then hitting, like, a dumpster or something. Like, what the hell? Why am I still here?

01:17:19
Sam
And then. And then later on, you can just have him, like, hanging out in there, just lying in the donut, just, like.

01:17:25
Matt
Hanging out, pulling an Iron Man 3.

01:17:27
Sam
Like, just kind of like.

01:17:28
Matt
Or Iron Man.

01:17:29
Sam
Wow. What's happening today in town? The Donut Lord's place is the best place to watch it from. You know, I think it would be great. I love this.

01:17:40
Case
Oh, and then because we set up this donut as being a thing that matters in the final fight, he can, like, jump into it to pick up speed and, like, circle around a bunch of times. So we get a loop de loop that he then rockets out of at one point.

01:17:51
Matt
Like, that would be, like, for the final blow onto Robotnik through the portal. He runs up the building through that and then jumps. Jumps and hits his ship and it sends him through the portal.

01:18:00
Case
Yeah, exactly.

01:18:02
Matt
Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

01:18:04
Case
I mean, these are all small changes. These are not big ones, but I think we're all like. We're in agreement. Like, this is a B movie. So what is the extra credit that gets it into the A? And it's like, lore drops that are fun without being overwhelming or gatekeepy. That's what we're kind of going for here. Ones that are not too expensive, not too big. I mean, admittedly, CG animals is going to be an added expense. So it's not like this is a completely immune to that kind of scenario, but I think that this is well within what they could have conceivably budgeted for. Obviously, there's some additional issues, but, like.

01:18:35
Sam
I mean, if I get the CG animals, I can do without the Atlas.

01:18:42
Matt
Yeah. Like, if I had to give one of those up, I would take the animals first.

01:18:46
Sam
But yeah, like, if I had to choose, I would say, like, we can use like we can get a giant chain and ball for the second movie where we have more money and which they may have. I mean, we don't know yet.

01:19:00
Case
I, I will say that I don't think that the chain and ball would be the more expensive effect though because like, the rendering on that is way less than having like a sentient character. Like, oh, it's a sphere. And if it's an energy effect, it's like a very easy after effect just to be like, oh, look at, like, look at the weird lightning effect that we have going. That's like the magnet that's holding the sphere. Like it, like you could even do the old thing that they would do with like 3D games that couldn't have enough polygons where they'd have like actual circles were just sprites because that part didn't matter. Like you would circle around it always and it would just still be a circle. So whatever.

01:19:33
Sam
Listen, all they need is a couple more ad placements, you know, call up Fanta and I'm sure they would have thrown some money at it, you know, like, and they would have been fine. Mountain Dew. Anything with energy. Red Bull. It's bad for children, but it's fine.

01:19:51
Matt
I'm kind of surprised there wasn't a Red Bull ad just because it's Sonic, but you know, or some kind of coffee reference, something like that.

01:19:58
Case
Yeah, Mountain Dew would be great for this one though, because that feels like 90s extreme. And also caffeine. Yeah, yeah.

01:20:05
Sam
Do the Dew and Sega. It was just like the same. It felt like it was the same voice actor. I don't know that it was, but it felt like it.

01:20:13
Case
Sonic goes to a bar and tries to order Four Loko.

01:20:18
Sam
Inappropriate case. Shame on you. This movie is for children.

01:20:22
Case
So is Four Loko. Sort of.

01:20:26
Matt
I will also say I would have a better score in mine. We mentioned it earlier, but I didn't mention in my pitch, like, just like the major chase and battle scene sounding more like the battle scene from Sonic 2. The first time you fight the six wheeled rover that Robotnik's in on that first stage, like, of like an orchestrated version of that theme or something. The first time he battles Robotnik would be kind of cool. Like the music wasn't bad, but it wasn't memorable either. And so I'd want a little more memorable video game inspired music since there are tons of composers now working who do that kind of thing.

01:21:02
Sam
Yeah. And also, like, honestly, I do know that song and it builds wonderful tension.

01:21:09
Matt
Yes.

01:21:10
Sam
So why wouldn't that be perfect for a final boss battle, literally, in a movie?

01:21:16
Case
Yeah.

01:21:17
Sam
Like, put it in. Give us a little more Easter eggs. Pay some money for that one song. Thanks.

01:21:27
Case
I feel like we hit it pretty hard right here. Again, this is a movie that just needed the little pushes to get it just over into that a quality sound. Because it's a thoroughly fine movie with lots of good things to like about it. And anyone who would be like, oh, it's my favorite video game movie, I wouldn't question that for a second. Like, anyone who says it's their favorite movie, I'd be like, probably need to see a few more. But like, I understand you liking it. That's fine.

01:21:52
Sam
It's definitely like an enjoyable film. And if anyone who sat through all of this somehow has not watched it yet and just likes to listen to people talk about a movie you don't know anything about, I would highly recommend it to you. Go watch the film. I think it's fun. I think that it captures the spirit of the character really well. And I think that, you know, despite its flaws, that third act is worth watching. Honestly, I gasped. I gasped when Teo got on screen. Like, like, just like a little kid. I was like, hi. Hey. Like, why? I don't know. It was like a minute or two, but I was still like really excited just to see Two Little Tails. I was. I was so excited. But yeah, I highly recommend. So go watch HBO still has it. So do that.

01:22:47
Sam
Do the thing with the watching.

01:22:48
Case
Was it on hbo? I watched it on Paramount.

01:22:50
Matt
I watched it on Hulu. I thought so. It could be in many places. Who knows?

01:22:55
Case
It's out there. You can see it. There are all kinds of streaming services. And Sonic the Hedgehog is unlike the days of the 90s, where it was only on Sega consoles, is now agnostic to all those things. So you can find Sonic everywhere. Your iPhone, there's Sonic there. Your Android phone, there's also Sonic. And it's a pretty good version of Sonic made by Chris Whitehead. As we said, your switch, there's some good Sonic games there. If you happen to have a Dreamcast, you've seen this movie. I'm sorry. Yeah, that's just like a one to one.

01:23:24
Matt
There's no way. Yeah, there's no way that you own a Dreamcast and didn't see this movie on day one. Yeah.

01:23:30
Case
Especially a currently running one.

01:23:32
Matt
One that still Works.

01:23:34
Case
Yeah, but I mean, like it again, it's a mass market popcorn movie that did a really good job of making a character appear on screen next to human actors and not feel really weird. And it works pretty well. You'll recognize the beats, but it's a lot of fun and you can see it a lot of places. So go do that and then listen to this episode again because now you'll actually understand the context and then find other stuff we do. Matt, they've got a lot of your stuff that they should go listen to.

01:24:07
Matt
Yeah, I have too much to plug. But what I will say is if you go to djstormageddon.com you can find a link to my merch store, my Ko Fi, all of the podcasts that I work on. Little known fact, because I don't talk about it as much as I should. I edit this show and I edit Men of Steel. I love doing it, even when Case sends me a three hour edit. Mind you, the edit is not three hours long. The episode I'm editing is, though. It never ends that way. Cut out all the chaff as it will. No, I'm kidding.

01:24:35
Sam
That's. That's mostly man of Steel, right? We're going to blame man of Steel.

01:24:42
Matt
But no, but seriously, I have a bunch of shows here at Certain pov. I also Twitch Stream over on Twitch. The best place to interact with me directly is DJ Underscore Stormageddon on Twitter. I am some might say too active over there. And if I were to pitch any of my podcasts, it's the one that I think is the running the longest and that kind of is from the heart the most, which is my interview series. Case has been a guest on it. It's called CPOV Autographs. Used to be called Crash Course Autographs, but it migrated networks and I've had some really fun, incredible interviews and I would love for you to check it out. If you like interview shows and you are fond of me, which I hope you are, you might really enjoy that.

01:25:22
Matt
But again, barring all of that, just go to djstormageddon.com you can find it all there.

01:25:26
Case
Awesome. Well, everyone should check it out because you've been a wonderful part of our show, even though you're often a silent partner except for when you insert yourself every now and then just to point out the inanity that we put you through. And I'm glad to get you back on because you haven't had a chance to be on since Sam came on the show, which we're now over the One year mark, by the way, we didn't realize it when were recording the last couple, but like, yeah, we're past the 52 week mark.

01:25:53
Sam
What's the gift for the first anniversary? If it's just paper, I'll send you something in the mail. It's just gonna be a thank you card.

01:26:01
Matt
Look, I can say that Sam is a very welcome and needed addition to this show. Not because cases not good at this, but he needs someone to rein him in a little bit. And Sam does a good job at that.

01:26:11
Sam
Yes. And only I will sit here and listen to him talk about Beowulf for the 10th time and humor it. Thank you, Matt, for bringing a movie that's not about Beowulf secretly.

01:26:24
Matt
You're welcome.

01:26:25
Case
God, can you imagine if I was like, well, I mean, obviously he's living in the woods and he's the sort of animal figure that sort of intrudes. Clearly Sonic is a representation of Grendel.

01:26:36
Matt
Oh, man.

01:26:40
Case
But, but Sam, you have all. You have been a wonderful addition to the show for the past year. Plus now where can people find you.

01:26:47
Sam
Here and at our Discord and nowhere else because I exist nowhere else because I will jump through a ring if you come for me. I will. And if you have any complaints, you can find Case at.

01:26:58
Case
Well, you can find me on Twitter at ksakin. You can find the show at Another Pass. All of the stuff that I do is at Certain POV where you can find more episodes of this show and tons of other great shows like C.P.O.V. Autographs like fun and games like screenstock. There's tons of great things that you can check out that are Matt content if you liked them. Like literal weeks worth of audio just to listen to everything if you wanted to.

01:27:21
Matt
That's true.

01:27:22
Case
Probably months worth, I would say.

01:27:23
Matt
I've paid my 10,000 hours at this point. I'm pretty confident across podcasts, Twitch streams and guesting on other shows. We are recording this early in the January and I've already guessed it on two and recorded a third guest spot. So, like, I have a problem, guys. It's fine.

01:27:39
Case
So head over to certainpov.com you can find all those shows that we talked about. You can find a link to our Discord. We're having this call on Discord right now and then you can find more episodes of this show. Sam, what is up on the next episode of Another Pass?

01:27:53
Sam
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2, the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:28:04
Matt
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.

01:28:17
Sam
Another pass is a certain POV production. Are hosts are Sam, Alice and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri and our outro theme is by Matt Brogan.

01:28:33
Matt
I am ready to go when you are. I will try not to take over too much.

01:28:37
Case
No, it'll be fine.

01:28:38
Sam
That's fine. I have joked many times that you're the third partner of this podcast and as far as I'm concerned, you should have your say. Gosh darn it.

01:28:48
Matt
Thank you. I appreciate it.

01:28:51
Case
Ads.

01:28:53
Sam
More ads. Matt. Put them here. You're here in the room. But I do this usually anyway, so exactly.

01:28:59
Matt
Why break traditional?

01:29:00
Sam
Stay consistent.

01:29:02
Matt
Yeah.

01:29:03
Case
Thank you for all you do. Current Matt's performance.

01:29:06
Matt
By the way, I'm not inserting my audio while I'm editing. I'm not going to do it unless you really give me a reason. You already make enough work for me, Case. Video games are a unique medium. They can tell stories, immerse us in strange, fantastic worlds, blur the very boundaries of our reality. But at the end of the day, video games are fun. Whatever fun is to you. I'm Geoff Moonen. And I am Matt, AKA Stormageddon. And on Fun and Games, we talk about the history, trends and community of video games. It's a celebration of all the games we play and all the fun we find within them. And there's so many more games out there, so we hope you'll share in that conversation with us. Fun and Games Podcast with Matt and Geoff.

01:29:51
Matt
Find us on certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts and happy gaming.

01:29:56
Case
CPOV certainpov.com.