Another Pass at Ghostbusters 2 - with Vin Macri

We’re joined by Vin Macri to take a look at the sequel to the pop culture juggernaut that was Ghostbusters! Can the trio crack open the river of slime without drowning in negativity?

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Another Pass Full Episode Originally aired: August 4, 2022

Music by Vin Macri and Matt Brogan

Podcast Edited by Matt Storm

Certain Point Of View is a podcast network brining you all sorts of nerdy goodness! From Star Wars role playing, to Disney day dreaming, to video game love, we've got the show for you! Learn more on our website: https://www.certainpov.com

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PODCAST SHOWS: ▶ Another Pass - https://www.certainpov.com/another-pass-podcast

⏱️ Chapters

00:38 Welcome and Guest Intro

02:36 Ghostbusters II

03:02 Revisiting the Movie as Adults

04:54 Peter Venkman Is the Worst

07:24 Peter and Dana’s Relationship

09:53 Dana’s Completely New Career

13:43 Everyone Has a New Job

14:14 Why Did the Ghosts Go Away?

16:31 Egon’s Experiments

17:29 Ray, Winston, and Life After Ghostbusting

18:04 The Fantastic Soundtrack

19:17 The Movie’s Best Ghostbusters Moments

19:58 The Scoleri Brothers

21:22 Winston Keeps Disappearing

23:19 Understanding the Slime

24:31 Ghostbusters II: The Secret of the Ooze

25:49 The Real Ghostbusters Influence

27:03 Peter MacNicol and Janosz

28:47 The Statue of Liberty

30:57 Louis and Janine

34:59 Winston Deserved Better

36:12 Ghostbusters II LLC

38:48 The Rise of Louis Tully

40:47 The Reshot Third Act

42:06 The Psychiatric Hospital

42:53 The Problem with Vigo

44:49 How Is Vigo Connected to the Slime?

47:49 Vigo Doesn’t Fit the Movie’s Theme

49:37 Back to Peter Venkman

51:04 Oscar Was Almost Peter’s Son

52:38 More Ray and Winston

53:46 How We’d Improve the Team

55:33 Winston as the Audience Translator

56:00 Another Pass Begins

56:15 Books That Burn Promo

56:55 Sam’s Another Pass

58:11 Making Oscar Peter’s Son

59:41 Fixing the Ghostbusters’ Financial Problems

01:01:14 Reworking Dana and Janosz

01:02:40 Make the Slime the Villain

01:04:43 Sam’s Final Fixes

01:05:20 Connecting Janosz to Dana’s Music Career

01:06:32 Giving the Movie More Heart

01:08:38 Vin’s Another Pass

01:09:44 The Louis Tully Movie

01:12:00 Case’s Another Pass

01:12:42 Taking Ghostbusters International

01:13:43 Making New York the Real Story

01:14:21 Negativity Creates the Supernatural Threat

01:15:17 Famous Dead New Yorkers

01:16:02 Harry Houdini

01:18:32 Rebuilding the First Act

01:19:26 New York Tries to Be Nice

01:21:36 The City Finally Snaps

01:22:25 Bringing Back the Statue of Liberty

01:23:03 Houdini’s Ghost Show

01:24:12 Make Peace with the Ghosts

01:25:55 Louis Saves the Day

01:27:08 Winston Finds the New Business Model

01:28:14 Peter’s Ghost Talk Show

01:29:56 Vin’s Plugs

01:30:57 Sam’s Plugs

01:31:32 Case’s Plugs

01:32:47 Next Time: Highlander II

01:32:59 Outro

01:33:13 Credits

01:33:28 Post-Show

Transcription

00:00
Case Aiken
She's working at the museum. There was a minute there where I'm like, oh, is this just a goofy cartoon where he just has a different career every movie that we pick up on, like, is that what's going on here? And, like, it was particularly frustrating because Sigourney Weaver was the one who suggested, like, oh, I should be a cellist and not a model in the original movie so that she could have, you know, I don't want to, like, put models down, but, like, have, like, an additional artistic side that is specifically, like, a thing that she's passionate about as opposed to, like, a job that happens to be like, I really don't want to put modeling down. But, like, that was her choice, like, to make it a thing for her. And, like, that's little judgy face. Yeah, I'm sorry.

00:38
Case Aiken
I have pink slime on me right now. It's. It's. It's causing some negativity. Welcome to Certain POVs, another past podcast with Case and Sam where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to another past podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.

01:04
Sam Alicea
Hi.

01:05
Case Aiken
And today we are reviving a friendship that has spent too long dormant. Today we are joined by Vin Macri.

01:13
Vin Macri
Yay.

01:15
Sam Alicea
Yay.

01:18
Case Aiken
Fanfare for listeners of more recent episodes of the show where I finally decided to actually put credits in, they might be aware that, Vin, you are the composer of our actual theme song.

01:28
Vin Macri
Yay. So you finally put it to you.

01:35
Case Aiken
No, listen. So Vin and I are long friends from college, and Vin is just a very talented musician who years back and probably drunk, said, like, yeah, you could use my songs and your shit. Back when I was, like, doing video editing stuff. And I have held him to that.

01:51
Vin Macri
Boy, did I regret that when I.

01:55
Case Aiken
No, this one actually you wrote or maybe you repurposed, but you. Specifically for a TV pilot that I was working on years ago called Envy, which was like a nightclub show and were looking for some dance tracks and stuff.

02:08
Vin Macri
Yes, I remember that. That was a good show.

02:11
Case Aiken
And then when I was developing this, I was like, I really like where that transition occurs. Like, it sounds really dope. And so I was like, yeah, I'll use that for the. Another pass. And did not talk to you about it until afterwards. And I was like, hey, by the way, you wrote my theme song.

02:26
Vin Macri
That's because you have a lifetime pass to all of my music.

02:29
Case Aiken
Exactly.

02:30
Vin Macri
You are the only person. Not even my wife has that pass.

02:36
Case Aiken
You'll never give someone another pass. God. See, the three of us were just riffing like comedy legends, just somehow just slipping back into the mold, as was the dream when putting together today's movie. Because today we are talking about Ghostbusters 2.

02:57
Sam Alicea
We are.

03:00
Vin Macri
It's a movie.

03:02
Sam Alicea
It's a movie. And the third act is fun. And I think that's what I remember from my childhood, honestly, was the third act where everything picks up and stuff really, really happens, you know, and the. I didn't remember about all this stuff beforehand that I was like, oh, when are we gonna get to the Statue of Liberty? So this was kind of, as an adult, this was a little painful to rewatch and kind of wish it had stayed in my childhood memories.

03:37
Case Aiken
Yeah, this is my first time watching it in a long time. I. I'm not sure if I've watched it as an adult, frankly.

03:41
Sam Alicea
Yeah, I don't think I. Maybe in my teens. Maybe in my teens I did. I don't think I've watched it since I've become an adult.

03:49
Case Aiken
I, I will say that we, when we're recording this is right after we dropped the episode on Ghostbusters and how incredible of a work it was to actually get that out the door and have it be such a wonderful film. And looking at Ghostbusters 2, there's a lot of good things throughout the whole movie. I can see why I liked it a lot as a kid because, like, my actual doorway into Ghostbusters was the real Ghostbusters, the cartoon from the 80s. And this, and we'll talk about it, was heavily influenced by that show. And there's plenty of good moments spattered throughout, but like, the total package, isn't there?

04:23
Vin Macri
Yeah, it's definitely a movie that you, you watch and you're like, it's not a bad movie. You can't say, oh, you know, I really hated that movie. Especially if you're a fan of Ghostbusters. It's just, you watch it, you have those moments where you kind of have a sigh of relief. Yes, this is, you know, Ghostbuster moments. And then it's over and you're like, huh, that's it.

04:54
Sam Alicea
I mean, for me, my biggest issue while I was watching it is Peter Vacman is the worst. Like, I didn't realize that as a kid. Right. Like, as a kid, he was just like one liners here or there. Like he walked in, he walked out. But in this movie. Peter Vegman is the worst. Like, he was, like, not the worst in the first movie. Like, he was, like, appropriately sprinkled in the first movie. In this movie, he is the worst. And I think that, like, it's very interesting because we've had an experience, right? We watched this first movie, and State Puft Marshmallow man, and all these amazing things happened, and they're heroes.

05:33
Sam Alicea
And I think it's totally okay to begin where it's, like, it's been five years and the world forgets, because especially we're living in our world right now, and we can see how short attention spans are of people for any kind of tragedy. However, like, Peter just kind of coming in and rehashing exactly what he is and kind of. It just. His whole character feels stale in this film. Especially since we just watched the first Ghostbusters. It just feels. Yeah, yeah.

06:05
Case Aiken
Well, and then his arc in this whole movie is the same because just, like, with a little bit more oomph, because it's him just trying to, like, win over Dana. And in this case, Dana has a child. So there's like, an element of, like, well, I've got to also prove that I could be a good dad. But, like, it's the same.

06:22
Sam Alicea
He doesn't prove it at all because the child's in danger.

06:25
Case Aiken
Well, in neither movie, though, like, all of a sudden, they're like, boyfriend, girlfriend. At the end of the first movie, I'm like, when did that happen? They didn't even go on their date.

06:33
Sam Alicea
But, like, honestly, he's the worst. Like, the child was practically abducted by a ghost, and he's just like, all right, toots, now that you're staying in my place, we're going to go on a date. I'm going to get you a babysitter.

06:49
Vin Macri
What?

06:50
Sam Alicea
What?

06:51
Vin Macri
But there was. There was this second where she had the ability to say, this is a terrible idea, but she went with it.

06:58
Sam Alicea
I know. And that's, like, the craziest shit. Like. Like, on both levels, I'm just like, what? And I will say this. This is wisdom passed down from my mother. And. And X is an example of what not to do again. And definitely Dana needs to get into some therapy because she keeps choosing terrible people and fake men is definitely example of something not to do again. Stop it, Dana. Stop it.

07:24
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's like, apparently they had a relationship in the interim, one that she wanted him to propose and he didn't. And so she moved on, found someone else, got married to that person, had a baby. They Ben got divorced and all within the span of the last five years.

07:40
Vin Macri
And left her job. She left her job. Now suddenly she's working in an art museum.

07:46
Case Aiken
We are gonna talk about that dumb fucking shit.

07:48
Sam Alicea
Wait, wait, let's go back for half a second, though. Cause at the dinner, just. Just to go back to their relationship. And then we will move on to Dana's poor life decisions because we need to talk about this at the dinner. He says, like, why did you break up with me? And she said, well, you were bad for me. And he's like, cause I'm a terrible person. And then she has to reassure him. And this is why he's the fucking worst. Because then she reassures him that he's really not that bad. And he's really, like, a kind hearted person. He's like, you know, I really needed to hear that. And I was just like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. Stab me in the eye. Like, I was just like, who? Why not Just.

08:26
Vin Macri
He needs to hear it. He. He needs to hear that for, like a century. He says, so there's something to that effect. I need that validation every day. Why are you like, I find that so attractive that I validate you constantly. Let me do so.

08:43
Sam Alicea
And I feel like there's a lot in the script where they tell us something, but they don't actually show us. Like, they're like, she's like, you're so kind and understanding and caring. And I'm like, I feel like he's nice to you because he wants to get in your pants. I don't feel like he really gives a shit about your kid or the ghost chasing them or ghost at all. Like, honestly.

09:04
Vin Macri
Well, he did. He did potentially sacrifice his jets sweatshirt that supposedly was given to him by Joe Namath that was then used as a diaper. I don't see how Joe Namath would have been wearing a Jets sweatshirt.

09:20
Case Aiken
He has an apartment in New York. There's a Duane Reade across the street. Like, I don't care where he lives in New York. There's a Duane Read across the street.

09:27
Sam Alicea
Definitely a place open with diapers. Like. And I was like, I'm sorry, sir, you cannot tell a child that you swaddle in a diaper. Do not ruin this. Like, what? What?

09:38
Vin Macri
What?

09:39
Sam Alicea
What? You're putting it over its butthole, sir. That's what it does. That's what it does. It does not have a job yet.

09:48
Vin Macri
That is what it does. So. Poor life choices. Poor life choices.

09:53
Case Aiken
Yeah. Lots of poor life choices. Yeah. All right, let's Fuck, let's. Now you mentioned, and I can't stop thinking about this one. The God, she's working at the museum. There was a minute there where I'm like, oh, is this just a goofy cartoon where he just has a different career? Every movie that we pick up on, like, is that what's going on here?

10:10
Case Aiken
And like, it was particularly frustrating because Sigourney Weaver was the one who suggested like, oh, I should be a cellist and not a model in the original movie so that she could have, you know, I, I don't want to like, put models down, but, like, have like an additional artistic side that is specifically like a thing that she's passionate about as opposed to like a job that happens to be, you know, like, I, I don't know who's like, super passionate about modeling, I guess, is the thing.

10:36
Sam Alicea
I'm sure there's someone.

10:39
Case Aiken
Yeah, like, I, I, I really don't want to put modeling down, but, like, that was her choice to like, to make it a thing for Paul and.

10:47
Vin Macri
Like that little judgy face.

10:48
Case Aiken
Yeah, I'm sorry. I have pink slime on me right now. It's causing some negativity. No, but the decision to have her have this artistic side, that was going to be her focus. And that all worked for the character in the first one. And here she's working at restoring fine art at a fictional museum.

11:12
Vin Macri
Who would hire her?

11:14
Case Aiken
Is she just a polymath? Is she like, how in the original script for Ghostbusters, Winston Zettamore was supposed to be this, like, super competent, like, physicist and ex marine, like, just engineer guy and you know, before they chopped it all down because no love for Winston in either of these movies. But, but is that the deal is she's supposed to actually have like multiple master's degrees and like, you know, doctorates in several fields? Like, is she bones from bones?

11:42
Sam Alicea
Yes, yes, that is.

11:44
Case Aiken
Or bones from Star Trek? Is she bones from anything?

11:47
Sam Alicea
Absolutely. To both of those. No, I actually had the same thought, but I was like, well, maybe Dana contains multitudes and maybe this is why her Achilles heel is Terrible Men, because she's too good at other things. And so to even the playing field, she's gotta be really bad.

12:05
Case Aiken
No one measures up to her.

12:07
Sam Alicea
She just has to be really bad at interpersonal relationships. You know, people just can't be all around perfect. So, like, the creator was like, data, you're going to be really good at all the artistic things you try, but you're going to suck at choosing people you're going to. And also the paranormal is going to be super latched on to you, so you're fucked. But. But I thought I was like, this is like, a really interesting thing because it's. Restoration of painting is. It's not something that's just done on a volunteer basis, nor is it very easy. And. And she did mention something about, like, which was really adorable. She was just like, yes, well, now that I'm getting things together, I will be back, you know, I will be, you know, back to the symphony soon.

12:54
Sam Alicea
And it was just like, oh, now that your child is nearly crawling or walking, you have time to go back to the symphony. I was like, what is this?

13:03
Vin Macri
Okay. Yeah.

13:05
Case Aiken
Her maternity leave hobby was restoring fine art.

13:09
Sam Alicea
I was like, what? But. But I was like, you know what? I'm not gonna. I'm not going to harp on this because I'm. I. Rick Moranis was just an accountant. Right. He wasn't also a lawyer.

13:24
Case Aiken
Well, so I looked into that one and he actually makes a good point about it, which is that, like, it's all still finance law and that it wasn't even so that he could ever go to court. It was basically so he could fill out documents.

13:33
Vin Macri
I gotta go to law school.

13:36
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, like, I. I stopped and looked at that one. And apparently it's actually fairly common for accountants to do that.

13:43
Vin Macri
All right, still, it's like every. Everyone now has a new job. You have, you know, you have Ray and Winston or doing children's birthdays. You have Peter, who's. Who has his own TV show, does this psychic. And yeah. You know, everyone just suddenly has these new jobs, Some that maybe take years of schooling and training and others where they just. That's just what they allude to. But it's like, really?

14:14
Sam Alicea
Also, can I just say, like, as a New Yorker, the fact that people die here all the time is very true. So why did the paranormal activity stop over five years? Like, I don't understand. Like, I feel like Ghostbusters would always have work here. Like if. If maybe we can say, like, oh, well, they couldn't see it. Like, the ooze brought it back into, like, the dimension that we could see. That's not the point. I feel like they would half work. That's all I'm saying. I don't mind the plot device, like down there, the laughing stock, and they have to redeem themselves. But at the same time, I'm like, this is a city of millions of people and people are going to die here. They're going to be ghosts.

14:54
Case Aiken
Well, but it might be magnified. And I do think that one thing they could have done in this movie was emphasize that, like, the gozer situation in the first movie was causing all the stuff to become much more apparent and, like, on the surface for people. And likewise, the stuff in this movie should also be doing that same thing, which is why. So there's Es and flows and maybe they could have been like, there hasn't been like, a. A credible ghost sighting in New York in four years or something to that effect. You know, like, really play up that, like, maybe, like, they started investigating people who were just crazy for a while and, like, it know, dried up. Actually any sort of, like, credibility that.

15:28
Vin Macri
They had that would make much more sense.

15:30
Sam Alicea
I just need a couple of lines in there. Yeah, just. Just like a couple of lines I like. Again, I don't mind where they started. Like, I love the idea of having to have a build, but it was just kind of slapped together to kind of put them back. And this is why it feels just like a rehash. Like, oh, well, we're just gonna take the lightning we had before and try to throw that back in the bottle and try to bottle it again. And so it seems like all the characters are starting exactly where they were at the first movie. As if we're, like, pulling back some of the character development and the teamwork that was created. Like, the gang's not. Now we're gonna get the band together. Like, it just feels. I don't know. That's why this is why the first act.

16:12
Sam Alicea
The first couple acts maybe didn't work so much for me and the romance,.

16:17
Vin Macri
But at least Winston was in it at the beginning. So, you know.

16:20
Sam Alicea
I agree.

16:21
Case Aiken
Yeah. At least. At least once things in it.

16:22
Sam Alicea
I agree. And I. Yeah, more, honey. Ernie Hudson, in my opinion, always makes things better.

16:28
Vin Macri
I mean, seriously.

16:31
Case Aiken
One thing I do want to say in the. In the sort of where we find them at the start of the movie. Egon's position is fucking dope. Like, I love that he is. I love that it sets up theme for the movie of them, like, understanding how emotions interact with paranormal activity. I think that's really cool. And the actual science experiment that he's doing is fucking incredible. Like, they think they're here for marriage counseling. We've been. We've forced them to wait here already for over two hours. And we've been slowly raising the temperature in the room. It's 95 degrees in there. And My assistant just went to tell. Went in to tell them that they have to wait for another half hour. Like, was incredible. Like, so good. And then over here in this room, we've just given a little girl a puppy.

17:11
Vin Macri
Let's see what happens when we take the dog away.

17:15
Case Aiken
Which still gets me. I'm like, so good, we can't do that.

17:20
Sam Alicea
Yeah. And honestly, that's really great because that's like a good through line for Egon because that's exactly who he was in the first film as well.

17:29
Case Aiken
Yeah, that. That whole setup. Wonderful. I like that Rey has the bookshop, like, them going as like, party entertainers. Like, I've been at that point in my life before. You know, those kind of gigs are a thing that happened in New York especially.

17:44
Sam Alicea
He man. He man. He man. Sorry.

17:48
Case Aiken
I. I found it thinking about this part, the fact that the Ghostbusters song is in universe a thing I really appreciated because it felt like when I was a kid, it was like, oh, yeah, well, yeah, the Ghostbusters are real. Like, they. Obviously there's like, they know their own theme song because we all know their themes.

18:04
Vin Macri
Best theme song ever, though. I have to. I have to say, the. The whole soundtrack to this film. So good. So good. Like this.

18:16
Sam Alicea
This is an epic soundtrack. Like, that's the best thing about this movie. There are good things about the movies, but the soundtrack is the best thing about this movie.

18:25
Vin Macri
If anything, any takeaway here, it's. Yes, more of Ghostbusters 2 soundtrack. More Bobby Brown, more Jackie Wilson, more Run DMC. Just. Yes, have it all. Have it all.

18:39
Case Aiken
Yeah. And I love how much fun. All of the songs that are using the Ghostbuster theme in it are. Like the Run DMC remix of the Ghostbusters theme, utilizing it for Bobby's Brown stuff. Like. Like all those spots. You can tell how big theme song for Ghostbusters was in the Zeitgeist and how, like, they wanted to use elements of it in. In their remixes.

19:01
Vin Macri
I feel like the montages during the film was actually solid. Like, it brought back, like, everything of the first film. You're like, yes, this is the feeling. This is it. And then it would cut to a scene. You're like, yeah, and now it's over. And now.

19:17
Case Aiken
Well, there are a bunch of spots that I kept being surprised were in this movie and not the first one. Like, the montage of them, like, getting back as Ghostbusters. Like the Runner, for example, was one that I really liked that, like, sequence. And I just assumed that, like, Ghostbusters 1's the good one. So it has that scene. Ghostbusters 2 is the bad one. So it didn't have that scene. And then I'm like, oh, no way. That's actually in this movie.

19:38
Vin Macri
I actually haven't a lot. I found myself being like, oh, my God. Yeah, that's in two and not one. And it's the mind association of, like, must have been in the first one, because that was. I mean, that was the movie. That was the Ghost. The Ghostbusters, not the real Ghostbusters.

19:58
Case Aiken
And. And there are, like, I said, like, plenty of, like, good things throughout. Like the Scolari brothers scene. The whole court scene in general, I think, is really good. And honestly, like, competes with the sort of equivalent scene, which is like the hotel scene in the first one. I like. I think this is a stronger work in general. I mean, like, obviously, like, they're at different points in their career. They're actually, like, capable Ghostbusters at this point. The only thing weird is that Winston's not part of that group since he was there at the start of the court scene. Like, where'd he go?

20:25
Vin Macri
You see him in the background. He's in the. He's in the crowd, right?

20:28
Case Aiken
He talks to them and then.

20:31
Sam Alicea
Well, yeah, like, why wouldn't he. There's weird moments where Winston just disappears. Like, I understand, like, when Egon and Dan Aykroyd. Because he's always just Dan Aykroyd to me, they're doing that little experiment with the photographs that they took of the painting because you need someone to come in and save them from the fire. So, like, understandable, right? But, like, I was just like, but where? What? I thought he was there. Like, where is he? Like, why isn't helping? Like, he's a Ghostbuster. What is going on?

21:05
Vin Macri
Look, he does the nine to five and that's it. He's there for his good for him paycheck.

21:12
Sam Alicea
You know what? Good for him. That's a good work life balance. That's right. You go home. You go, Winston, He's a hero.

21:22
Case Aiken
No, I like the. The him not being there is because they're thematically trying to, like, be like, all right, this is resetting them as Ghostbusters and setting it to the same way that we had in the previous movie. And I think that's a bummer. Like, Winston. I mean, especially for. For those of us who were fans of the cartoon where Winston is, you know, just one of the four members. Like, there's. There's no pretense that he's, like, a lesser member in their. Their capacity. Like, he should have just been there because, like, no, like, he's part of the team now. And, like, he's not a lesser part of the team. Like, yes, he was not on site when they were breaking or when they were digging into First Avenue. Like, so he's technically not on trial. That part is fair.

21:58
Case Aiken
He shouldn't be sitting at the table, but he should be able to grab his proton pack and assist in fighting the ghosts. And the Scoleri brothers are a great idea. Like, people killed by the electric chair, by the judge. Fucking awesome. I love that.

22:13
Vin Macri
Oh, it's so good. And the whole Louis Tully during all of those scenes where Venkman is just feeding him all of everything that he's saying during there and trying to bumble his way through it. It's so good. It's so good. That is probably almost my favorite.

22:33
Case Aiken
It's a real strong sequence. Like, all of it is just really good.

22:36
Sam Alicea
I also think it's within the scene. It gives you a really good demonstration of how the goo is going to work, right? Because that's when they really see. See the activity of this thing that they found. And, like, all of a sudden they're like, oh, it is reacting right now. Like, and they're like, no, no, you should stop. You should stop. And, like, we as the audience are like, oh, my God, he should stop. But he's still going and saying more ridiculous things. And so it's got this really, like, wonderful build. Plus, it's kind of. Plus it's a perfect way of explaining, like, what this goo is, or at least, like, what it reacts to. Right? And so then it's a nice tie into Egon's experiments from the beginning, which.

23:18
Vin Macri
Is a great theme throughout there.

23:19
Case Aiken
And then the experiments later on, like, everything with them shouting at it and the music. Like, I think that the toaster sequence, I think, is actually really good. I think that we are missing a scene between that sequence and then the Statue of Liberty at the end. And it's apparently a sequence that got cut at some point. There was a scene where they. They show that they can control a thing that. That they ooze. But I do like the through line of them figuring out how this ooze works. And I like the. I keep calling it the use. I like the. Like, the slime in this movie, just in general, because I think, like, that actually. I mean, one, we set up the ectoplasmic goo stuff in the first movie and, like, slimer and all. All that stuff, but also just like, a blob.

23:58
Case Aiken
Like, feels like an appropriate, like, supernatural menace in movies. Like, it. It feels like a thing that the Ghostbusters should deal with. Like, in the first movie, they dealt with, like, some random God. In this case, they're dealing with, like, this amorphous, like, evil from, like, river of Ooze, too.

24:15
Sam Alicea
Like, it's a river.

24:16
Case Aiken
Yeah, exactly.

24:17
Sam Alicea
Like, that's. Honestly, this should be called Ghostbuster, river.

24:20
Case Aiken
Of Ooze, Ghostbusters 2, the Secret of the Ooze.

24:25
Vin Macri
In all the universes. Well, all of these.

24:28
Case Aiken
So this is as good a spot.

24:30
Sam Alicea
As any mention this.

24:31
Case Aiken
Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I. I do actually compare this to turtles 2, the secret of the Ooze a lot of times, because that I felt had the same basic issues that this movie does, which is that there was a popular cartoon that influenced the perception of a franchise that wasn't really meant for kids, but you could see why it would appeal to kids. That then caused the sequel to be heavily influenced by said animated series as much as it was by the original movie and is thus, like, a lesser product as a result. Like, I think this and turtles 2 are in the same category of, like, yeah, it's fine. It could be a lot worse. Like, we know it could be a lot worse. We know both could be a lot worse. But it's fine.

25:09
Case Aiken
But it definitely feels like it's, like, toned down for kids, and thus you kind of lose the thing that you really liked about it.

25:16
Vin Macri
Yeah. I always wonder how much that influence had on how they approached it. Was there a constant struggle of, like, who. Who is the audience that we want to appeal to? We want to have it appeal to, you know, the adults. But also now we have this audience of kids who really love. How do you. How do you. How do you do that all in at once at one movie? When you're. I'm sure you're getting pressure from whoever is overhead at the. At the studio saying, look, this is our audience. This is who we have to appeal to.

25:48
Sam Alicea
Yeah. Yeah, well.

25:49
Case Aiken
And that apparently was a big issue for this movie because they kept. They had way more slimer written into the movie than they were. Like, no, we got to cut it all. And then they were like, okay, how about a little bit of slime? And they, like, tried to find the right balance there as a bus driver,.

26:02
Vin Macri
Of course, you know.

26:04
Sam Alicea
Yeah. And clearly what happened was that Bill Murray was in a slightly different movie, basically because nothing he says is Appropriate for children. But all the other Ghostbusters actually walk the line of being fairly appropriate for children.

26:23
Vin Macri
Winston's line, which is probably one of my favorites in the film, when they're testing out views and slime and it's like, I think Bill Murray says, basically alluding to, did they have sex with the slime? And Winston is like, it's always the quiet ones. No, but I guess that would go over the kids heads. That would. That's.

26:48
Sam Alicea
But I also feel like that's still Bill Murray being appropriate and just Winston being like, okay, smoothing that out with something else.

26:59
Case Aiken
Yeah, I can see that. All bay nad lives,.

27:03
Vin Macri
But it made for gold, even. You know what? That setup. I'll take it. I'll take it. So, I mean, the comedic parts in it, really. Can we Talk about Peter McNichol for a second? I mean, sure.

27:18
Case Aiken
Yeah. Let's talk about whatever was going on with Peter McNichol there.

27:24
Vin Macri
He's just like. He's my favorite part of this film. Like, I don't know why. It's just everything that he says and does is just. Just so good. It's just. Oh, the baby. He comes in. Oh, oh, easy way. Oh, but I would. He's so good. He is so good.

27:45
Sam Alicea
I love that. Like, his accent is totally indiscernible. And they ask him, where are you from? And he's like, the opposite way. It's just like, what?

27:56
Case Aiken
And that was apparently a choice that he made because he wanted to be like. He was like, this character could be from anywhere, could be whatever. And so he had this whole idea that his character was specifically Carpathian as a way of connecting him to the Vigo stuff, which. Okay. I mean, that part is creative. A creative choice.

28:12
Sam Alicea
I mean, that's a choice.

28:13
Case Aiken
That part is.

28:13
Sam Alicea
That is a choice.

28:14
Case Aiken
He apparently based his accent on a Czech accent, but, you know, it just sounds, like European.

28:21
Vin Macri
Yeah, but it's so good.

28:25
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's weird. He, like. Because he's effectively the equivalent role of Lewis Tully in this movie. Like, in that. This movie, like, follows fairly beat for beat what happens in the first one. So, like, he's the annoying guy who's bothering Dana and then gets possessed.

28:41
Vin Macri
There you go, man. They really did go just right down the line. Yeah.

28:47
Case Aiken
It even has a Kaiju at the end. They just flip. Who has the Kaiju?

28:51
Sam Alicea
She is a symbol of purity and love, though, so it was great.

28:56
Case Aiken
Oh, I don't mind the use of the Statue of Liberty. In fact, I rather like. I rather like it as a juxtaposition. To the Stay Puft Marshmallow man who you know, looking at it from like, while. While there's like a little bit of like rah independent business a little too much in the first movie. Like all government regulation is bad kind of stuff. I do enjoy that the ultimate confrontation is a symbol of crass commercialism. Like it's a mascot for a brand and I think that's really cool. And like that's like one of those things we didn't talk about last time when we talked about Ghostbusters but is really great about. Just like that. That's so cool. And like flipping it with the Statue of Liberty where it is a more philanthropic. It is more of a like a public goods kind of thing.

29:38
Case Aiken
That is also like we said, like it's a symbol of. I mean it's literally a symbol of liberty. It's a symbol of like all the things that we hold dear. Like that's a good idea by the.

29:49
Vin Macri
End of the film. I mean, she smashes in, it's there, but then you see it just like lying on the ground. How did the Statue of Liberty just suddenly fall over and it's just chilling there.

30:01
Sam Alicea
Well, I guess because there's no more ooze, right? So like there's nothing to animate it.

30:07
Vin Macri
What did they do?

30:08
Case Aiken
They probably still had more.

30:09
Sam Alicea
Honestly. The Ghostbusters are going to get sued again. That's basically what's going to happen because the city's going to make them pay for putting it back up.

30:16
Case Aiken
Well, they show that it is at the back or back up at the very. So like I'm guessing they had more of the ooze and they like got it up. Which makes me wonder if this ooze is like self replicating and it's like positive. Is that like the new designer drug for New York City after that? Like, like slime yourself and you'll just feel great, baby.

30:32
Sam Alicea
Just love everyone or angry. I mean, I don't know. It amplifies. Amplifies your own.

30:37
Case Aiken
So it's weed and cocaine. It's both.

30:42
Vin Macri
This is how, you know the Ghostbusters then made their fortune. They started, you know, selling the slime too.

30:49
Case Aiken
Let's not get too ahead of ourselves because like some thoughts.

30:52
Sam Alicea
The river of ooze. Oh my gosh.

30:57
Case Aiken
So let's. Why don't we talk about Lewis since we just referenced his counterpart thematically in this and his new role in this movie as being like EGON's EGON part two, like the junior EGON, like Janine's love interest, which I know a lot of people don't like because she like clearly was super into Egon in the first movie.

31:16
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

31:17
Case Aiken
Watching it, I, I know a lot of people really don't dig that idea, but it does make sense that Egon, if he ignored her for five years, that Janine would move on and find someone else. Like, I get that part.

31:28
Vin Macri
And she did put him in Egon's jumpsuit when he goes out. All I'm saying is she may just be like, well, I can mold him into.

31:42
Case Aiken
And it definitely is not his actual jumpsuit though, because Egon is the tallest one of them. Like, but. And substantially taller than Lewis. So like she has just a Lewis sized Egon jumpsuit that she put him in.

31:55
Sam Alicea
That's. It's all weird, guys. I'm not about it. That's weird. Date. Date the person you want to date. Don't change a person. It's a bad message. This is a bad message. Ghostbusters. It's not. Okay.

32:07
Vin Macri
There are a lot of bad messages for, on the women's side during this whole film know, bad life choice.

32:14
Case Aiken
Yeah. Like, Dana just makes terrible life choices. I, I would at least say Janine makes a slightly better one, which is that Lewis, while he's like kind of annoying, like in the first movie, he's like particularly annoying, but like he's not a bad guy. And he's actually pretty smart and very like good as like an accountant and like honestly the best father figure in this whole movie. Like when he's like telling like the childhood story, but like doing it from like the lens of an accountant, it's like, yeah, like that was a really good moment there.

32:38
Sam Alicea
I will also say I will defend him a little bit. Yes, he was a little naggy and stalkerish in the first, but he really like. I thought they were going to get creepier when he invited Dana to his party, but he really did have a lot of friends. It was a real party. It wasn't just like, I'm tricking you to come over. And then like when she like, you know, she had other friends. Like, it wasn't like he was like, oh, that person. Like, he was like, oh, you have a friend. Okay, goodbye. Like, Lewis was weird and he was socially inept, but he wasn't a total creep. So yes, she could choose worse. But I also feel like don't put him in an Egon suit. Just put him in a nameless suit. Like, like him for him like him for Louis.

33:22
Sam Alicea
Like him because he's a puppy that's going to follow you and he's going to be loyal. Louis is great, too. Plus, he can. He can defend you and do your taxes. I mean, you can do a lot. Maybe even hide some of your funds. I mean, Louis is great.

33:36
Case Aiken
And he had a really hot girlfriend in the first one, or maybe just a date that was, like, cool with dancing with him, like, in the first one. So, like, he might be pretty good in some other stuff. Like, he's got Honey didn't shrink that kid.

33:49
Sam Alicea
Did you say all of that just so you can say that?

33:53
Case Aiken
No, I felt to it and, like, I got to it, like, naturally. And I love it so much that I got there because it wasn't where I started.

34:01
Sam Alicea
I just needed to know. I needed to know if that was prepared.

34:05
Vin Macri
He's like, I'm good. Mic drop right there.

34:12
Sam Alicea
Episode is over.

34:15
Case Aiken
I do want to note, though, that this is the same year that Honey I Shrunk the Kids came out. So we are seeing Rick Moranis. This is the apex of his career in terms of being a public figure. So it makes sense that he. They bulked up his role for this.

34:29
Vin Macri
Movie and decided to make him a lawyer because they needed.

34:34
Case Aiken
I mean, again, he says he studied tax law, which makes sense as an accountant, but still.

34:42
Sam Alicea
Yeah, still, we're not buying a case.

34:47
Case Aiken
I'm just saying it's less egregious than the cellist turned artist on that one.

34:51
Sam Alicea
That. That is true. But you have to admit, they still shoehorned him. And I get it. I support it. I love Rick Moranis. Throw him in the movie.

34:59
Case Aiken
What if Winston was their lawyer and they just, like, go back to the idea that Winston is actually really capable. God.

35:06
Vin Macri
But no, no, no.

35:09
Case Aiken
And that. That is the character, I think, gets the least love in this movie. Like, the only thing that I really like in terms of what they're doing with Winston in this movie is that he's. Well, one, he's there from the beginning, but two, he and Rey actually seem to have, like, a real friendship. Not like. Not just that they go to, like, the party stuff together, but, like, even at the very end, like, they, like, have a moment together and they, like, clink off. They're like weird tube guns. Like that. That's kind of nice there. Because, like, it's not. Those are the kind of scenes you would normally write for two characters who were, like, friends from high school or something. You know, like, old friends who are still Working together. It's like, can you believe we're still getting through this one?

35:44
Case Aiken
But no, they only met five years ago. Like, like they connected really well. But it shows that friendship really means something to them.

35:51
Sam Alicea
I thought their scenes were actually pretty good. I mean even when they left, even during the birthday party, like when Akroyd turns over and goes, you want to get a beer? And she's like, yes, like they're like suffering through this together and like they're bonded. They are. There's. There's a certain their relationship and their on screen dynamic is really good.

36:12
Case Aiken
Side note. So I did a double feature last night of watching one and two and that was the first time I ever noticed that on Ecto1 which I like, I realized was a hearse. When were doing it more recently, I always in my head was just like, oh, it's a repurposed ambulance. And realized, oh, it's a hearse. That when we did Ghostbusters 1 last night was the first time where I ever realized like, oh, it's the stretcher for the coffin that they. Is their gear rack that like slides out. That's so good.

36:38
Vin Macri
So good.

36:39
Case Aiken
Technical details in these movies are like one of the really nice things.

36:42
Vin Macri
So what I never understood is why did they do the peace sign two for them? Is it just like it's their comeback moment as Ghostbusters where they're gonna. I get it. Marketing for the film. But why is suddenly the ghost symbol that they use as their. Why does it have. Because I get it. It works with theme there also of like peace and love and the positive charging of things and bringing everyone together in New York to then defeat evil. But it never made sense of, well then why they do that from the start when they start the business up again. And did the business start up again? How did they get that nice piece of real estate again in the firehouse? Is just sitting there the whole time or what? There's so many questions.

37:38
Sam Alicea
Was someone just living there? Is that where the experiments are happening?

37:43
Vin Macri
I don't understand.

37:45
Sam Alicea
And who thought they were going to couples therapy in a firehouse? I just, I have a lot of questions also. Who lent their child to this experiment? Who's that parent? Because I like to have some words with them.

37:59
Case Aiken
I will say in the real world. So post pandemic, there have been a lot of restaurants reopening in the D.C. area that were closed because of the pandemic. And many of them because they actually closed, had to like set up new LLCs. And so a lot of them are like second time or second time around or a second attempt. So I could see their like Ghostbusters LLC being Ghostbusters 2 LLC. So I could actually imagine that. And like, I don't know.

38:23
Sam Alicea
My God. Louis did it for tax purposes. It's on Lewis.

38:28
Vin Macri
He is the star of this because.

38:31
Case Aiken
He's also an attorney. He can set up the llc.

38:36
Vin Macri
Amazing. It just. Yep, all came full circle right there.

38:41
Sam Alicea
This is amazing. Headcanon. Amazing. Doing all the hard work for this movie.

38:48
Vin Macri
I mean, he should be the star of the movie. Lewis Tully should be. That should be Ghostbusters 2. The rise of Louis Tully. It goes with how his art during the film to him eventually becoming perhaps the fifth member of the Ghostbusters. There, you know, it built to it. An accountant, a lawyer, and now a Ghostbuster.

39:11
Case Aiken
Yeah.

39:12
Sam Alicea
I mean, honestly, that's just such a long title now because it's Ghostbusters 2. The secret of the Rise of Lewis Kelly. Accountant, lawyer, Ghostbuster.

39:23
Vin Macri
It just rolls off the tongue. It just rolls off.

39:26
Case Aiken
Best part in any situation. Who you gonna call?

39:31
Sam Alicea
Louis Tully.

39:36
Case Aiken
I did love, by the way, when Lewis and Janine doing the ad, like, again, it's all beat for beat stuff from the first one. But like this update to them doing the Ghostbusters ad I thought was really fun. Especially like Janine's like, you know, she's such a good actor. Like, like she in the real world is such a good actress. Like doing Janine as a terrible actress. Who are you gonna call?

39:59
Vin Macri
Great, great.

40:00
Case Aiken
Yeah, wonderful stuff. Great, great update to doing that whole bit there. Again, all the beats are the same, but like, some of them are not bad.

40:07
Vin Macri
Oh, there's so. There was so much potential. So much potential.

40:12
Case Aiken
Tons of potential. Like, and I mean, like, I get it, there was a lot of studio interference that led. That made it such a long gap. And like they decided to like to lean into the whole it's been five years thing. So they wanted to have some weird stuff going on there.

40:26
Vin Macri
But yeah, they brought the mayor back. They'd had that, you know, that the mayor had to have his scene again. Still. Still going in there. Although they did throw in some. Some Cheech Marin in there.

40:40
Sam Alicea
Yeah, that was great. That line still carried really well. Like, I was like, damn, his timing is amazing.

40:47
Case Aiken
You know what's wilder? So first of all, that was all reshoots because the test audiences hated the first, like the. The original third act of the movie. So they reshot the last 25 minutes and that's when they got the stuff for Cheech in there. But they were trying to figure out what they were going to use. And so, like, ultimately, the Titanic is, like, perfectly fine, but they almost. You did the Hindenburg and had. They were going to have all flaming guests getting off of the Hindenburg. And I was like, that would have been metal as hell. Like, how goddamn cool would that scene have been of just a bunch of spectral flaming corpses walking around?

41:23
Vin Macri
See, it was the. It was the appealing to the kids that they thought that would be too much. Yeah.

41:28
Sam Alicea
Maybe they even thought that maybe the kids would know the Titanic more.

41:33
Case Aiken
Oh, yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, like.

41:34
Vin Macri
Oh, yeah.

41:36
Case Aiken
I mean, this is before the movie, but, like, it's still like, the Titanic is such a popular thing to bring up in reference, man. There's some nerd discussions, by the way, about that, because the type. The damage to the Titanic is wrong, but it's, like, right for the. Like, for what they understood at the time. And then also the pier that they. That it arrives at is wrong. And it's like, people are like, no, no. The White Star Shipping Company actually had Pier 59, not 34. And it's like such. Such nerd minutiae about New York stuff. I love.

42:05
Sam Alicea
That's amazing.

42:06
Case Aiken
Speaking of beats that are similar. So the psychiatrist beat, you know, it's the same scene as, like, when they're in the prison. Or not prison in jail in the first one, when they've.

42:15
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

42:16
Case Aiken
And they're going over and all the prisoners are, like, looking at the. The architectural plans, like. But I mean, one. It's a chance to have Brian Doyle Murray, Bill Murray's brother, as a psychiatrist, which is great.

42:26
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

42:27
Case Aiken
But it is a nice moment to have them explain the entire movie and have it just be like, oh, but you sound insane.

42:36
Sam Alicea
Yeah, that scene works. Definitely. And it's great because if you didn't understand anything, especially if you're a kid that was just running around because you thought the beginning of the movie was boring, you could be caught up and enjoy the rest of the third act.

42:51
Vin Macri
Sam's really pushing this third act.

42:53
Case Aiken
I want to push back a little bit on that one because I have in my notes multiple times, I hate Viggo. I hate Viggo. I hate the effects for Viggo. I hate everything about Viggo. I think Vigo is the worst part about this movie.

43:03
Vin Macri
But then you'll never have the line of, I have met some dumb blondes. Yeah, but you.

43:10
Case Aiken
True, true. Some of those. Those riffings aren't going to happen there. Like, and maybe. Maybe I'd like Viggo more if they didn't just do a dude in a Ren Fair outfit and, like, had him actually look interesting because he's a ghost, and yet he's just an actor on screen. And even on the times where he's, like, speaking through the painting, it's just, here's a green screen and we have a video recording of him talking instead. Like, they're doing no special effects to make him look spectral or interesting in any real way. And that bums me out.

43:39
Sam Alicea
I can get that. I also thought his painting was really ugly. Just to throw that in there. I mean, like, if we're insulting everything. Viggo.

43:47
Vin Macri
Yes. No, let's put it all out on the table. Put it all out.

43:49
Sam Alicea
His painting was terrible.

43:50
Vin Macri
Horrible painting.

43:51
Case Aiken
Terrible.

43:52
Vin Macri
Horrible.

43:52
Sam Alicea
I mean, just like, did you have any other colors in that country? No.

43:56
Case Aiken
Okay, fine. Shit. Brown.

43:58
Vin Macri
Yeah, brown. Brown, brown.

44:02
Case Aiken
If they tried to sell it where it's like, oh, the painting itself was made from the blood of his victims or something like that. Like, I could. I could get behind that. I actually worked on a 48 hour film festival where, like, it was about a serial killer who used blood to make the. The ink. And so I actually have the paintings because I was the only person on set who knew how to draw, because I was the one who made those paintings. So I got to keep them. Like, I'd be. I'd be down for that.

44:24
Vin Macri
You didn't use real blood?

44:27
Sam Alicea
Well, you know, Case wants to make everything feel authentic. And in 48 hours, he dealt with what he.

44:32
Case Aiken
Yeah, I just, like, slit and then just like. All right. Okay, guys, I'm going to need a couple hours. Does anyone have some candy bars?

44:41
Vin Macri
You're very method in your.

44:43
Sam Alicea
It's a real sacrifice for his art kind of thing. Such a true artist.

44:49
Vin Macri
So I never understood where. So what is the connection between Vigo and the slime? Like, I get he's supposed to be a large, powerful force of evil, but why is it then is he charged by the slime? Why is the slime going. I just. I don't. That never really made sense to me.

45:13
Case Aiken
Well, it's funny you asked that, because test audiences asked the same thing. And so they added additional scenes to try to explain it and clearly didn't do a good enough job. So the river of slime thing goes way back into early drafts of this. And at one point, it was going to be a tube that connected them to Scotland, where Dana would have been kidnapped off to. So, like, weird stuff on that whole thing.

45:36
Vin Macri
The. The.

45:37
Case Aiken
The river of slime thing, like, kind of makes enough sense as being like, all right, so it's like the. These, like, spiritual or psychic connections of leylines or something to that effect. But, like, no, it doesn't make any sense for VGO at all. And I think that's one of the reasons why I don't like vgo, because I don't think he actually is part of theme of this movie. This whole, like, the. The elements of, like, our. How our emotions affect those around us. And the slime is like this magnifier or this, like, battery or whatever you want to. However you think of it. Like, that all, like, works together in this one little world. And then in this other world, we have, like, this old magician, this Rasputin type character, like, show up again and being like, put me in a baby.

46:16
Case Aiken
Like, totally separate plots. And, like.

46:19
Sam Alicea
Like, also, why did he need to be put in a baby when he was out walking, like, in his own body? Like. Like, at that point, you're there, like, dude, you're corporal. You've got. You've got a body. Like, like, what. Why do you need someone else's body? Why do you need a mom? Is it.

46:36
Vin Macri
He's got.

46:36
Sam Alicea
I think he needs a therapist.

46:37
Vin Macri
There are definitely issues here.

46:39
Sam Alicea
He needs a therapist. I think that's. That's what he needs.

46:42
Vin Macri
You know, Dana needs a therapist. Janine needs a therapist.

46:45
Sam Alicea
Venkman needs a therapist.

46:47
Case Aiken
They all need to go to counseling, but make sure it's not egonic.

46:50
Sam Alicea
You. Not. Definitely not.

46:54
Case Aiken
I would love it if it turned out that the reason why and Peter, like, split was that they went to counseling, and it turned out to be part of the experiment.

47:04
Sam Alicea
It was 95 degrees.

47:06
Case Aiken
Like, I don't know why that. Like, that last time we tried to get therapy, I don't know why it was so hot. I don't know why everything went the way it did, but I just knew that our relationship was over at that moment.

47:17
Vin Macri
Wait, now I want to go back and rewatch it and see if there's just a little bit of a glimpse in Tina's eyes of throwback, where it clicks of like, oh, my gosh, this was the. We went through. But no, lots of great headcanon.

47:37
Case Aiken
Lots of great headcanon for.

47:39
Sam Alicea
I mean, this is amazing. That's what this is about, right? Head cannon, this whole podcast.

47:47
Vin Macri
Amazing. Amazing.

47:49
Sam Alicea
But.

47:49
Case Aiken
But like I said, vgo, I don't really think ties in Very well to the whole plot. I don't think. He's not particularly scary. It's weird that they have this actor and then they have Max Von Sydow be the voice for the part. So, like, there's this additional layer of disconnect on this whole thing. And like I said, like, makes it weirder that he's like, oh, we need to have all this evil. Because, like, he's a. He's a human. It's not like he's an elder God looking to destroy things. Like, they're explicitly like, oh, all this evil. Yeah, yada. Like, what's his goal? Like, I understand that he was a cruel bastard.

48:19
Sam Alicea
Well, world domination, clearly. That he tried to take over the world once before. I mean, I just assumed. He just needs to do it, you know, he needs to learn the lay of the land, which is why he needs a baby. I don't know. I'm talking out of my rear end. I don't know.

48:34
Vin Macri
Viggo, what are we going to be doing tonight? Same thing we do every night. Jonas.

48:38
Case Aiken
Try to take over the world from.

48:41
Sam Alicea
The fo west side. Yes, yes. That is from where we are.

48:47
Case Aiken
I think plenty of world coups have been started on the Upper west side.

48:54
Vin Macri
Although the art museum, I think, is the one down by Bowling Green area, which I think that was a Native American museum.

49:04
Case Aiken
Well, the. The building that they're using. It's the Alexander Hamilton Custom House, is the physical building they're using.

49:10
Vin Macri
Where is that?

49:11
Case Aiken
Which I believe is down in the financial district.

49:13
Vin Macri
Yes.

49:14
Case Aiken
Which makes sense that they would be able to get, you know, the Statue of Liberty there in any sort of reasonable amount of time. Yeah, no, it's a very downtown focused movie.

49:22
Vin Macri
Yeah, it's definitely. Peter Venkman's in some nice Tribeca lofts over there. So they're keeping with the revitalization of. Of downtown Manhattan. Definitely continuing that.

49:37
Sam Alicea
Even though they kept saying terrible things about my city. The whole movie. Especially Peter Vekeman, who is the worst. Go on. I have feelings, Case, about Peter Vekeman in this movie. Feelings?

49:52
Case Aiken
I think that's. I mean, he had plenty of vices in the first movie, but it's sort of like, well, he's definitely the shitbag, but we kind of, like, let him get away with it because he's not being that big of a shitbag. But in this movie, like, he's already burned this relationship with Dana. He's trying to revitalize it, and, you know, he's just gonna burn it again.

50:11
Sam Alicea
Yeah. Honestly. And it just. It just. His intentions don't. His intentions never seemed pure or, like, you know, like, in the first movie, it was never like, oh, I need to help mankind with ghosts. Right. Like, he was totally into Dana, but they seemed less skeevy than in this movie.

50:32
Case Aiken
I don't know if he does.

50:36
Vin Macri
Slightly.

50:37
Sam Alicea
Just slightly, like, I don't think he.

50:40
Case Aiken
He's less skeevy. I think Dana feels less vulnerable in the first movie.

50:44
Sam Alicea
Maybe. I. I don't know. Maybe it's because she has a child in this movie that I'm just like, bro, you're crossing a line you shouldn't cross. Yeah. That's a single mom. Be respectful. Okay? That's. That's a commitment to not just one person. That's. That's two people. All right.

51:00
Vin Macri
That is the message. That is the message. Yeah.

51:04
Case Aiken
In early drafts, they were supposed to still be together, and Oscar was supposed to be Peter and Dana's son together.

51:10
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

51:11
Vin Macri
What happened to that?

51:12
Case Aiken
Murray apparently said that it put too much of the. Their relationship up front. Like, it created an imbalance in who was the lead of the movie. And I don't know if that. That actually was averted. I feel like, Thinkman still ends up kind of dominating the group. And I would say even more so than in the first movie. Like, the first movie. Like, Rey and Egon have a certain amount of. Like, this is their project, and Venkman's just this con man who's, like, latched on to them as a parasite. And he's a funny parasite, so we all laugh at him and, like, pay attention to him in this movie. Like, I. I think the Dana relationship's even more front and center. And as a result, like, it. I think it's still just there.

51:49
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

51:49
Case Aiken
Like, I think they totally missed the mark on trying to make it less important by putting in this hyper compressed. Again, I can't get over. They were in a serious enough relationship where she wanted him to propose after. Again, they hadn't even gone on a date at the end of the first movie. And they. They had this whole relationship. They. They break up, she goes off, marries someone else, gets married as a kid, like, gets divorced, and now bamboo.

52:12
Vin Macri
Really hating on that case. Really.

52:15
Sam Alicea
No, I. I agree. I. I agree. I mean, I know a lot can happen in five years, but I agree with you. The. The. The relationship in this did not work at all.

52:27
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, I realized that they're all, like, in their late 30s, early 40s at this point. So, like, some of those relationship Things have to, like, speed up a little bit, but still, you know.

52:37
Sam Alicea
Yeah, yeah.

52:38
Vin Macri
Which again, goes to the. The emphasis and the focus of this film should have been on Lewis Tully. And then you would have the Janine Love story. That should be the focus right there.

52:50
Sam Alicea
Yep.

52:51
Vin Macri
Just saying. Ghostbusters 2. Just make the secret of the ooze and the.

52:55
Sam Alicea
Or. Or. Make the focus Ray and Winston.

52:59
Case Aiken
Yes.

53:00
Sam Alicea
That's the relationship. I want to see that. That's my ship. Okay? That's. That's the ship I'm sailing. All right. Like, they don't have to be romantic. It can totally.

53:08
Vin Macri
They can have. Bro, I want the whole.

53:10
Sam Alicea
I want that buddy cop film without the cops.

53:13
Case Aiken
Although imagine how good it would be if they just, like when they said, let. Let's go down to Chelsea to get a beer instead of just, let's go get a beer.

53:20
Sam Alicea
I mean, like, I'm in for, like.

53:22
Case Aiken
You don't even need to be explicit. You just, like, put a couple things.

53:25
Vin Macri
A little.

53:25
Sam Alicea
Listen, Buddy Busters. Buddy Busters. I'm. I'm on board for it. Let's. Let's do this. Let's. Let's. More Ernie Hudson. I'm good with it. This is my rewrite. You know what? I'm throwing out what I had. This is what I want.

53:41
Vin Macri
More Ernie Hudson. More. More Peter McNichols. More Louis Tully. There it is.

53:46
Case Aiken
Yeah. More interesting villain at the end. That's all.

53:49
Sam Alicea
And keep Egon and his weird experiments. Keep Egon. Egon.

53:54
Case Aiken
So I would say make Egon more Egon.

53:58
Sam Alicea
My.

53:58
Case Aiken
I like. While I love the early experiments, I love the. When he's, like, in the. In Oscar's room, and he's like, my parents never believed in toys. Like, those are great lines in there. Like, really, truly Egon lines. He smiles too much in this movie. Like, there's a few too many spots where he's like. Like a little mirthful. And I'm like, no. Like, rein it back. Reign it back, Harold.

54:19
Sam Alicea
Have Egon explain things to Winston and just have that friendship grow, too. That way we get some layman explanations where wits would be like, excuse me. And then just have him go, no, no. And then to get really excited about something, be great, but great. I want to see that. I want to have fun with their relationships, with the interrelationships of the Buddy Busters.

54:40
Case Aiken
Yeah. Like, have Ray and Egon alternating between, like, highly technical jargon and then have, like, Winston being like, hang on, let me get this part straight. You're saying that Blah, blah. It's like, that's exactly what we just said. Cool. Do those things.

54:53
Sam Alicea
And that way we can be in on it too. Like, basically Winston becomes the translator for the audience.

54:59
Case Aiken
That role's important. That's why you have Trini alongside Billy on Power Rangers. Like, you need to have both.

55:05
Vin Macri
And that basically was his role in the first one. I mean, Winston was the. This is, you know, I'm the out who's gonna, you know, be following these guys and I'm going to be this sort of branch between that two.

55:18
Sam Alicea
And then somewhere in the middle of the movie, have like, Winston say something that's like their jargon. And then both look at each other like, whoa. And then like, it's like, the boy's catching on.

55:29
Case Aiken
Like, that's a great idea.

55:33
Sam Alicea
He's a genius.

55:34
Case Aiken
Actually. That would be a perfect thing. That would be perfect actually for the Statue of Liberty scene. Like if he used a highly technical explanation for what they have to do, where it's like, if only we could animate some sort of metaphorical representation of everyone's positive emotions and they're all like, that's a great idea. And then smash Cut two. Statue of Liberty.

55:52
Sam Alicea
Yes, exactly. It'd be amazing. It's so good. Almost as good as other podcasts on our network.

56:00
Case Aiken
Yeah, I think we're at a good spot right now. We should probably get into pitches. So why don't we take a moment, shout out one of the great shows on our network and when we come back, let's speculate on how this okay movie could have been better.

56:15
Sam Alicea
Agreed. Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors? Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the painful action and the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to Books that Burn, the Fortnightly Book Review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma. We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions, and favorite non traumatic.

56:49
Vin Macri
Things in the dark books we love.

56:51
Sam Alicea
Find us on Spotify, itunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.

56:55
Case Aiken
And we're back. All right, so let's talk about how this movie could have been better. And like, you know, it's got some strengths, it's got some many weaknesses. And I'm not allowed to go before Sam. So then you are the guest. Would you like to go first or would you like to put Sam up front?

57:14
Vin Macri
Sam, go for it.

57:15
Sam Alicea
Okay, so I mean, now I've thought a lot about it since we almost rewrote it to perfection with my buddy Buster Ship. But I honestly really like the idea of actually having Oscar be Venkman's child. Because I feel like you can't just be in the same place now. He can still not be. Like, they can totally be separated. Which I think would add some nice tension with them. Because here's the thing. One of my favorite action tropes of the 90s, every dad. Every dad in an action movie is a divorced dad who doesn't have his life together, who saves the world and thus redeems himself. And I feel like that would fit right into Ghostbusters right here. And I know that kind of, like, I wouldn't want it to overshadow it, but I do think that there would be moments for, like, friendship.

58:11
Sam Alicea
And I would say, like, you can have Venkman living with one of the guys, right? Because he's been kicked out of his apartment. He's been. So he's rooming with someone, probably Winston, because obviously more Ernie Hudson. I'm totally doing that. Or Lewis. Like, literally. It would be so hilarious that the guy who basically was always following his, you know, separated wife around is the guy who's just like, sure, you can have a room in my house. And that way Lewis is around all of the time. And Venkman is a terrible roommate. But Louis is also super annoying and adorable. The only way that Moranis can do it.

58:57
Case Aiken
And you could also make so that Louis, like, says that it's like a tax write off or something.

59:00
Sam Alicea
Yeah, right. Yeah, it's a tax write off. You can stay here forever, that kind of thing. You've got Louis helping them out. I would say not just the birthday parties, but have Louis, like, in that scene where you have veikment and him, like, in the apartment. Have Aikman been going over him with the tax stuff and even. Maybe even mentioned some of the financial woes that the Ghostbusters have been having because maybe they actually are doing jobs, but the cost, because they fucking destroy everything all of the time, is so astronomical. Because people are starting to sue them because, like, damage to property, right? So it's not that ghosts aren't happening. It's just that they're not actually that big of a hero anymore.

59:41
Sam Alicea
Because when you call the Ghostbusters in, yeah, they get rid of the ghosts, but they also break everything you have, like, what the hell, man? And so, like, just have, like. Like, Louis kind of going over those financials and the Legal stuff to set him up as your legal lawyer and accountant. Because we're shoehorning that. Fine, I'll keep it. All right. And then, you know. And so when you have moments of Dana and him, you can have him picking up the kid. Maybe Ray goes with him as, like, an intermediary. So, like, one of the Ghostbusters is always with him. Maybe Winston. Right. There's always somebody that's kind of like. Like, she's like, oh, can you tell him that? And he's like, I'm standing right here. And so you still have that kind of, like, loser thing that Venkman has.

01:00:32
Sam Alicea
Like, he's like, ultimately, like, he's, like, smooth talking, but he's also kind of a loser con man kind of thing. And you still. And you have Dana kind of seeing through him in a way, or just done with his bullshit and just being like, I'm, you know, I. Maybe she's a docent right now. Because I don't think she should be restoring paintings, guys. Like, I don't think that's going to work. So, like, maybe, like, while she's on leave or as she's trying to figure out what she's doing, she's taken. Or maybe she has taken a job at the museum, but it's in setting up classical instruments. Like, she's cleaning out the instruments because she knows about instruments. She's cleaning out the instruments. She's setting them up for display, things like that.

01:01:14
Sam Alicea
And this weird guy at the museum knows that she separated and is hitting on her and whatever. We can still follow that beat, I guess, just because I do like that performance. We'll leave it. Egon is running experiments out of the firehouse. So we keep that space, and Louis has helped him repurpose it. And. And. And basically, like, they've set up almost more of a doctor's office in the front. Was like, they've covered up the Ghostbusters sign kind of haphazardly. And so they still run their experiments there. So I would keep a lot of it the same. Just kind of tweak it every now and then. Because I want more of an emotional journey for veikment. That way. The, like, the child being hurt is like, an actual cost to him.

01:02:00
Sam Alicea
It's not just like, oh, no, the woman I want to sleep with child is going to be abducted. Dana will be so sad, and then she won't sleep with me. I would like it to be like, oh, no, my child will be abducted. This ghost is not going to take it. No, Dana I'm not a fuck up. I'm going to get the child back. And her being like, no, you are a fuck up. I'm going to go get the child back. And so. And so, like, kind of like, in that way, you can still have all the beats. You can still have the mayor. I liked the mayor. I was like, hey, my buddy. Yeah, you still hate it also, you guys know I always think New York always chooses the worst person to be mayor. So I think that is consistently true.

01:02:40
Sam Alicea
And I think every mayor in New York City films should be the worst because we can't pick a good one. So that. That's just true to the city. And. And I think that everything else can play out pretty much. I would. You're right about Viggo being flawed, and maybe we should just make it the ooze. And it wants to possess the child because the child has ability because she had paranormal exposure at one point because there was something that possessed her body once. And it can sense that in the baby. And, like, there's leftover, I don't know, ectoplasm or something in Dana's blood, making her child more susceptible to supernatural paranormal activity. You know, Just make the baby.

01:03:28
Case Aiken
The baby sneezes. Ectoplasm.

01:03:30
Sam Alicea
Yeah, just make the baby a little, you know, and, like, wouldn't it be.

01:03:34
Case Aiken
Wait, wait. I didn't. We didn't talk about this part because it was such a minor moment. But, like, one of the callbacks earlier is that they have Venkman get all the, like, fluids on whenever they're on. On locations. And so they have him get the stool sample. Yeah. So what if. What. They test the stool sample. They're like, there's the pke. Meter's going off the charts with this.

01:03:51
Vin Macri
Yeah.

01:03:52
Sam Alicea
Like, he's just like. Like, his mama was possessed by a ghost once, and, like, she's just still carrying that around, like. And it passed to the baby, and so the baby is just like. I'm like, what if the baby can summon the ooze? I don't know. I'm. I'm riffing here now, but all I'm saying is I don't know if you necessarily totally need Vigo. You can actually make a museum guy now. Names are out of my head, but you can. You can have Janus. Yes. You, Janice, actually be the person who's, like, a little more obsessed with the occult and. Or with paranormal stuff. You know, lots of lore. Maybe you have him show her paintings in the museum, maybe talk about some haunted instruments. Oh, do you know this was owned by blah, blah, blah. And have him, like, really into it.

01:04:43
Sam Alicea
Let him be the villain. Let him be actually the person that wants to take over the baby because he knows the baby can control the rivers of ooze and through the baby, if he becomes the baby's father, then he could raise the baby to control the world. Okay, so that's my pitch, because I will keep talking. And also more Ernie Hudson and make him a really good uncle to the baby. Make him be the person. I don't know where the Statue of Liberty comes in. I'm sorry, guys. That's my favorite part, too. Fuck. I've ruined this. I've ruined.

01:05:20
Case Aiken
Let me throw off something that might work because I. I wasn't thinking too much about Johnny's in. In my pitch. But now that I'm thinking about it, like, if we want to keep him, what if he was the conductor they're talking about in the first movie? Yeah, like. And, like, what if he has a really dope office that he's like, brings in this giant painting? It's like, it's from my home country. Like, so you could keep the even. You could even keep Vigo and the painting stuff, but you actually make it about, like, the Met Opera instead of, like, just a random museum for no apparent reason.

01:05:48
Sam Alicea
Yeah, absolutely. Why not?

01:05:50
Case Aiken
And then you get a through line with the first movie that the villain is the guy they're complaining about in the first movie. Like, you know, when she comes out of, like, rehearsal with, like, the other, like, the other guy who is kind of implied to be, like, the guy she married, but we don't actually see it, so who knows? Just to, like, keep, like, a faux through line throughout.

01:06:08
Sam Alicea
I agree. Thanks for fixing it.

01:06:12
Case Aiken
I don't know if that's a fix. It's just that.

01:06:13
Sam Alicea
No, no, it totally fixed it. Fix it completely. And you still need good vibes, which I. I actually really love that it was good vibes. And, you know, it was the one redeeming thing for New York. I appreciate it. Throwing us a bone. Thanks. You suck, Peter Venkman. But anyway. But, yeah, that's the thing.

01:06:32
Vin Macri
Peter Venkman's. It's negative charged all through him the whole movie. It doesn't make sense of him then being the hero with everyone else at the end.

01:06:42
Sam Alicea
It doesn't. It like, it doesn't. And I think that, like. I think the difference would be that if Oscar was his son, it would force him to have a moment of love and honesty, which is positive. And that would better because he would have a positive moment to bring the baby down and bring the baby into his loving arms, and it would be like, you know, a nice dad moment. I don't know that Marie could do it, but I do feel like that would have been better. Overall, give it a little more heart because, like, the movie is just punchlines and no heart.

01:07:21
Vin Macri
And you know where you can get that heart from? You can definitely get it from Lewis Tully. Make Louis Tully the focus of the film. He starts out from the accountant to the attorney to the Ghostbuster. And following his line of hair, he is the pure character. The purity that. That brings it through of that. That. That battle between good and evil. He is the pure character that comes in, and then it's always saving the day.

01:07:54
Sam Alicea
I'm so surprised you said that, because I thought you were gonna say, you know, where you can get that heart, Ray and Winston. Because I was like, yes, that is where it is. That bromance is real. I love it. I love you, man. I love you. Ray told him that. Ray told him he loved him. It was great. It was wonderful.

01:08:16
Vin Macri
The bromance, that's the new self. That's how you fix it.

01:08:21
Sam Alicea
Yeah. They took off their clothes when they were angry at each other, and that made them like each other. I'm just saying. It's there. It's there.

01:08:30
Vin Macri
They were already oozed up. They were all ready to go. There you go.

01:08:38
Case Aiken
Vin, what would you do if you were. If you were trying to tweak this movie?

01:08:41
Vin Macri
Oh, man, I know it sounds ridiculous, but I'm gonna keep going with this Louis Tully through line. It sounds crazy, but you make him more of the focus on there. I do agree. I think you get rid of the Vigo character and you. You make that. That ooze, slime, the river of it, and all that negative chargedness in there, even if it's just a blob, you know, that. That Its way into being, into whatever. It doesn't even matter at that point. It can. It can encompass any. Anything and anyone because it already showed whoever really gets touched by it gets sort of taken in by that negative charge and negative energy and having that be that the evil monster that they're, you know, trying to take down, because that's even more frightening than Guy in the painting type of situation.

01:09:44
Vin Macri
But again, with Louis Tully being the character that you follow through, and then you have. You have the ghost, but they're in the background. You know, they've been going through Hard times. But Lewis Tully will bring them. We'll bring them through. They'll help them with their taxes. Oh, man. They have all these issues with. With the state and with that. Guess who the hero is that's going to save the day.

01:10:07
Case Aiken
Who you gonna call?

01:10:09
Vin Macri
Who are you gonna call? Louis Tully.

01:10:11
Sam Alicea
He's gonna fix your taxes and defend you in court.

01:10:15
Case Aiken
It makes me think of that short story where it's like, I forget the name of it, but it's like, story by checkbook. And it's just like the memos on the checks that, like, tell the story of, like, what, like, what was going on with this man's life. And, like, you can imagine from his, like, accounting office, it's like every now and then they come in or he gets an expense report for, like, something, and he's like. And you're piecing together, like, all these, like, ghost encounters that they have.

01:10:37
Vin Macri
That's it. That. That's it. That. That is the new pitch on it. That is. No, but I mean, if you follow his character through that, and instead of having the love story of Dana and Peter, which, again, that was already told or sort of alluded to in the first one. There was no real love story that was there in the first one. And I don't know that there should have been one in the second one. And it shows Louis Tully being sort of that better. The better father figure in there where he's just telling the story to little Oscar and him being not necessarily that father figure for that kid, but here's that light through all of that darkness that. And in the end, he's the one that saves the day. And you make him do.

01:11:25
Vin Macri
Be that saver as opposed to just kind of. He's. He's kind of there, and while they're saving the day, he's just really shooting the. At nothing at that point. But I don't know. I think I want to see the Louis Tully movie.

01:11:41
Sam Alicea
Dana should have ended up with Lewis.

01:11:44
Vin Macri
Yes.

01:11:44
Sam Alicea
Said it. Said it.

01:11:46
Case Aiken
Oh, man. That's. Everything comes full circle.

01:11:50
Sam Alicea
I mean, like, it's just like, oh, the demon was right. That was the right choice for you.

01:11:58
Vin Macri
So that's my pitch. That's my pitch, and I'm sticking.

01:12:00
Case Aiken
All right, so I've got a three page, two takes, one.

01:12:04
Sam Alicea
Go on.

01:12:05
Case Aiken
Well, well, so once. A quick one, which is that if. If we really want to have Vigo the way Vigo is in this movie, I would like to do the early idea of, like, have it be in a different country. Like, I think that you could set it in like Paris or Rome, someplace that has like famous cat like catacombs as a place where you would have a lot of dead. And also it's underground and you could have a river of ooze flowing through it. And then you could have this like, old, kind of, not old, but like, you know, this like Renaissance style painting where, you know, you can invoke this idea. Like, it could be a terrible Roman emperor, it could be a terrible, you know, like Merovingian king, something like that.

01:12:42
Case Aiken
Like, fuck, you could actually set up like great history and be like, oh, this is the king that was overthrown by Charles the hammer. Is that the. I'm sorry, I'm blanking on my French history at the moment. It was something that hammered like the grandfather of Charlemagne who like overthrew the Merovingian kings.

01:12:59
Vin Macri
I just think of Ms. Trunchbull, the former Olympian, but.

01:13:04
Case Aiken
Or any of the myriad coups that occurred in Rome at various points. You could easily set that up. And then that way you could keep the. Those kind of elements there. And they're there in that city because Dana as a cellist was there performing or something to that effect. And you can have them all like the, in this scenario, the Ghostbusters didn't break up. Like they, that the. Everything was fine and then they have to travel and like, that's a quick version of this and it would be like, kind of cute. And you could set up like cultural differences between New York and whatever city they're in now. And you know, but that also kind of feels like Beetlejuice Goes Hawaiian. Like, like, is that necessarily the sequel you want to do?

01:13:43
Case Aiken
But it also feels like a sequel they would have made in 1989. So I don't know. But if New York is going to be as important to the story as it is really, then obviously keep it in New York. And in which case, like, I like the idea that Dan Aykroyd said, like, it's really interesting to think that what if all the New Yorkers had to be nice to each other for a day or two, like, and were being forced to be like, that's kind of a fun thing. So let's focus on that whole, that emotion thing that we lose by them having to fight a bad guy at the end. And part of that, I mean, is like, literally they fight a guy at the end and like, that's not how you win an avatar of hate.

01:14:21
Case Aiken
Like, you have to beat him with love. And sure, they get the old lang syne bit, but like, my thought is, what if the threat isn't that there is like an evil sorcerer trying to be reincarnated in New York and that is stirring up hatred because that makes the. The negativity of the world be supernaturally imposed upon us. And what if it's the other way around? Like, what if all the negativity and whatnot, that's. That's coalescing in this place and you get like, you can get into some Leyline conversations here. There's all this like negative emotion just being funneled into New York, into central locations of that. And that is causing all the fucking. Like, there are a lot of dead bodies in New York.

01:14:58
Case Aiken
Like, and that is causing a lot of spirits to like, become restless and filled with that hatred and so forth. And so this could give us the opportunity if you need a big third act thing. Because, like, again, the Scolaire brothers showing up like they're criminals and whatnot. That's such a cool sequence earlier, like, get a famous dead New Yorker, like someone who's buried in New York to be the villain of it. And there's a couple good options when I.

01:15:17
Sam Alicea
When I look so many.

01:15:18
Case Aiken
Like, for who? Good. Yeah. Because there's tons of famous New Yorkers. But I was like trying to look for ones that are buried in New York and I had three interesting options. So one, Alexander Hamilton.

01:15:28
Vin Macri
Hamilton, yeah.

01:15:29
Case Aiken
And that allows that building to still be the same place because it's. It is the Alexander Hamilton Customs Center. So that's why I have it in my notes, by the way. So, like, that's an interesting one. Ulysses S. Grant. Like, you could do some stuff with that one. At one point. There is an underground railroad.

01:15:48
Vin Macri
Where is Grant's tomb? Who is in Grant's tomb?

01:15:52
Sam Alicea
Oh, I almost answered you. I was like, oh, it's up on 120. Okay, go on. I'm sorry.

01:15:56
Case Aiken
Yeah, but I think the best one. And you'll like this one is Harry Houdini.

01:16:02
Sam Alicea
Yes.

01:16:04
Case Aiken
He's buried in New York.

01:16:06
Sam Alicea
Yeah.

01:16:07
Vin Macri
Where is he buried?

01:16:09
Case Aiken
I forget exactly. I had a. I had the whole list. I was like looking through New York Cemetery. I think it's in Queens.

01:16:14
Vin Macri
But yes. How. How did they not jump in onto that?

01:16:18
Case Aiken
Yeah. And like he's a spiritualist, so he's like in the same line of craziness that led to Dan Aykroyd writing the script. So it's fucking perfect. And like, again, I'm not trying to say Harry Houdini is an evil soul. What I'm saying is that Harry Houdini's soul has been corrupted by evil. The evil of modern New York. And in that scenario, I don't know what the point of the baby is. Like, I. It's sort of like, all right, well, it's. It's good from a thematic standpoint to like represent all this. But like I. You could keep it or leave it. Like, but like the reincarnation part isn't what I want to go for. I really want to focus on this whole, like, all this welling up of negativity and hatred, like permeating New York and having to have everyone kind of deal with it.

01:16:59
Case Aiken
I also think this could be a good opportunity to have a relationship besides just Venkman and Dana. Like, they could still be together. Maybe they're on the outs, it doesn't really matter. But like, they don't need to be the only relationship there. Like, yeah, like, sure. Like Ray and Winston.

01:17:15
Vin Macri
Awesome.

01:17:16
Case Aiken
Like, but. But I actually have notes where it's like. Or like you could also just have a character be interest. You know, it sucks that they've like cut Winston down so much. I think that's a bummer. And it would be nice to give him a romantic lead. But let's be honest here. It's 1989 and like, they're racist. So like, and. And not even aware enough to be like, we have to like pretend that we're not. So like, probably if they're gonna give the next character a romantic lead, besides Lewis apparently is give it to Rey. Like, what's up with Rey? Like, why doesn't he have a family at this point? Like, I was convinced on my rewatch of this movie that the baby was. Was Dan Aykroyd's actual kid. Because it looks just like. And it's not. But it looks just like Dan. Ay.

01:17:57
Vin Macri
I did.

01:17:58
Case Aiken
And I was like, oh, well, yeah, you know, like, right, like that makes sense. He's like a. He's like a 40 year old man who seems to be like, pretty nice and enthusiastic. You could see people liking him as a person, you know, even if he's kind of crazy. But there's lots of crazy out there. So it could be a single mom of a different baby. Like, it doesn't have to be connected to them who is, you know, dealing with some of this. And she. Maybe she does knows Dana. Maybe she's in the orchestra with Dana and like she. Dana introduces them to Egon and Maybe, like, Dana and Peter are on the outs, but they're like. They're separated but, you know, like, still technically married.

01:18:32
Case Aiken
And so, like, that's why we get the whole, like, we have to circle around, like, don't talk to Peter stuff in there. So you could keep those kind of elements. But, yeah, so, like, we can all work with that. So I'm thinking, like, all right, opening of the movie, have the last scene from the original Ghostbusters, then do the five years credits. Like, it's real weird that. That it's the Columbia logo. And then five years later, because if you don't know what movie you're watching, it's just five years later from what.

01:18:53
Sam Alicea
What?

01:18:53
Case Aiken
Have. Have the. In sequence of Ghostbusters five years later. And then we can have this whole thing about the negativity. Like, we've got Peter and Dana on the outs. We can do some more, Winston. Yes, that'd be nice. Maybe, like, we. We have single mom get. Gets introduced to them by way of Dana. So we get, like, elements that are same, but focus on this river of slime being this naked, like, negativity. Like, have that be a disaster movie as opposed to, like, a singular villain. Because that was the first movie. Movie. This movie is a different movie. And then we can build towards, like, everyone's starting to get more hustle and more. More crazy. We get the Scolari brothers.

01:19:26
Case Aiken
But once the Ghostbusters make their reemergence and are, like, confirmed as being, like, back and that people believe them, they get on there and, like, you know, Peter makes an impassioned plea as, like, on his television show. Like, everyone in New York, you have to bottle it up. Like, we have, like, this. Everything's getting worse, and it's because we're so upset.

01:19:44
Sam Alicea
You have to go to theater.

01:19:45
Case Aiken
We all have to be nice to each other and so forth for 48 hours. They all try to be nice. And so we get, like, the second half of Act 2 is. Is new York trying to be nice? And so we can have all these scenes of New Yorkers, like, gritting their teeth being nice to each other.

01:20:01
Sam Alicea
After you. No, after you.

01:20:04
Case Aiken
Exactly. But it's all, like, after you. And then I'm thinking they're the tipping point. And it sucks that the timing. I would like the tipping point to be some event that makes a lot of New Yorkers really angry and that all of a sudden causes all the ooze to bubble up and explode through all the geysers and, like, get on that woman's like, hear me my. What I would like to do and it doesn't work because it's set at New Year's, is I would love it for. To be the Yankees loose.

01:20:31
Sam Alicea
But I just want to say publicly, just so that everyone knows, I love it when the Yankees lose because I'm a Mets fan. I love it.

01:20:39
Case Aiken
Fair enough.

01:20:39
Sam Alicea
Not all of New York is going to behind that. Some of us.

01:20:42
Case Aiken
I know, but enough of New York.

01:20:43
Sam Alicea
Go out in the street and rejo.

01:20:45
Case Aiken
Well, wait, this is 1989. Like, if it was. If it was the Sox beat the Yankees, that would have been a thing.

01:20:52
Sam Alicea
The Yankees weren't good then. No one cared. Keep going, though. All right.

01:20:55
Vin Macri
Well.

01:20:56
Case Aiken
All right. But none of the New Year's.

01:20:58
Sam Alicea
But it is. It is New Year's good at the time. So, like, New Yorkers didn't die and live by it. Not until 96. So, yeah, I am not a sports.

01:21:08
Case Aiken
Person to begin with, let alone not a fan of New York sports. So, like, there's only so much that. There's only so many shits I give about this.

01:21:14
Sam Alicea
No, listen, it's gonna be traffic. It's gonna be. There's an accident, and it's gonna be that someone's gonna say something.

01:21:21
Case Aiken
Okay, yeah, like a giant pile up or something like that.

01:21:24
Sam Alicea
It's gonna be that someone cut someone else off, and he's like, you know what? I'm sick and tired of this bullshit. And then he's gonna curse that guy out, and then someone else is gonna cry, and he'd be like, I'm walking here. You're walking here. I was driving here. What the. And then there's gonna be a lot of curse words.

01:21:36
Case Aiken
Oh, and then we just see the wave of, like, hostility. Like, it's represented, like, too long.

01:21:41
Sam Alicea
It's. Because if you repress things and don't go to therapy, that is not healthy. Okay? Like, honestly.

01:21:46
Case Aiken
Oh, and we could have, like, a pka, like, radar indicating, like, all this, like, spectral activity. And it starts at, like, the Lincoln Tunnel because there's, like, an accident at the Lincoln Tunnel. And that, like, starts the hostility and just, like, backs up further and further. It's. It's filling up midtown and so forth. Like, then it actually starts to have, like, a physical manifestation as the ooze rises up.

01:22:04
Sam Alicea
Mayor in it. And have him not, like, having to try to, like, not yell at any of his aides. Because that would be amazing. Just like, no, you're doing an amazing job. And then have one of them, like, spill something on him and just like, no, that is fine. I don't need a clean suit. It'd be amazing, right?

01:22:25
Case Aiken
So we get this whole, like, point where everyone's getting so hostile and so forth, and, like, how do we. How do we resolve this? Like I said, I'm fine with the Statue of Liberty. I think it's a nice inversion of the first movie. I think we have one scene in there where they say, okay, now we can actually control the thing where. With the positive ooze and spend some more time explaining the ooze, which is fine, because in this movie, the ooze is the main threat.

01:22:45
Sam Alicea
Right.

01:22:46
Vin Macri
So you still have New Jersey saving New York. Right? Because the Statue of Liberty, which is technically located in New Jersey. The Jersey.

01:22:55
Sam Alicea
All right, it's time to hang up on Vin. This. This conversation is over.

01:23:03
Case Aiken
But. But here's the thing I really want to get to. Because, like, it would be so. Like, it'd be so fun if we got Houdini. And instead of being, like, you know, instead of some, like, weird museum that they have to invent for some reason, like, I'm thinking, like, it could be at a location where Houdini did a big show. And so it could be the site of the Hippodrome, which is, at this point in time, office buildings, which would be a perfect place for it to be. Like, lots of stress and so forth. In Midtown. Like, it's right off of Central. Pardon me. It's right off of Times Square. Like, we could have, like, all kinds of, like, craziness going on there. Like, when it bubbles up and so forth. Exactly.

01:23:41
Case Aiken
When it starts at the Lincoln Tunnel, it, like, rises and surges and, like, there's all the, like, ghosts are showing up all over the city. It's all kinds of freaky. And Houdini is on site now, like, doing it, like a dramatic ghost show, like, at the site of, like, one of his biggest performances ever. And that's where they have to, like, go there. And everyone's booing them the way it does normally. Like, you know, the ooze is rising up and, like, surrounds the whole building and so forth. When they try to get in there, everyone's booing, and they're like, no, we have to. We need to, like, inspire people and that, you know, still get the. You know, we can get the Statue of Liberty to, like, give them the ride there and breaks in through the ooze of the.

01:24:12
Case Aiken
Of this, you know, skyscraper, and, like, they can climb on the torch and, like, get in that way. And then confront it. But I don't think they should fight him because I think what we need to do is get ready for a lefty twist here. We need to inspire people to work with the ghosts through collective action and then unionize them.

01:24:34
Sam Alicea
You want a world where ghosts are working with us?

01:24:38
Case Aiken
Yes. And because then we can actually sell the slime to everyone. Here's positively charged slime. This was actually what I was getting at.

01:24:44
Sam Alicea
Okay, listen, though. The music has to stay so, like, I wanted to create, like, almost like a. You know, they still have to blast the music. People still have to dance around.

01:24:54
Case Aiken
Because that was absolutely, like, everyone needs to become excited and happy. They all like. Because they need to put their, like, the anger to rest so that the spirits can find peace. But that piece doesn't have to be that they, like, go to sleep. That piece could be that they are coexisting in New York.

01:25:09
Sam Alicea
Aren't you putting the Ghostbusters out of business, though?

01:25:12
Case Aiken
Well, yeah, that's. That is the. That is the realization here that they have been trying to bust ghosts for too long when really they should be making peace with ghosts.

01:25:18
Vin Macri
But then they get to sell the positively charged slime.

01:25:21
Case Aiken
Yes.

01:25:23
Vin Macri
They're just shifting their business. It's just. It's how businesses technically, like, when you're.

01:25:29
Case Aiken
When your job is extracting spectral slime, it's a different kind of ghost busting.

01:25:34
Sam Alicea
That's fair. That's fair. That is fair. And we would definitely get more Winston in your version, right? Honestly, like, all Vin and I care about is more Lewis and more Winston. Like, we, like, actually don't really care about the structure of the movie. We're like, this is what we need.

01:25:55
Case Aiken
And so maybe that's the thing. Maybe Lewis is the thing. Rather than Lewis showing up on the outside with a proton pack, maybe Lewis, like, shows up there being, you know, they can't get. They can't get a beat on Harry Houdini. He's too slippery. He evades every shot that they fire at him, like they're not doing a good job. And then Lewis gets outside and being like. Like. And everyone's, you know, jeering and, like, booing. The Ghostbusters, they're not doing a good job. Everything's getting worse. There's more ghosts. Everyone's freaking out, and he's like, look, I was a dog once, and, you know, like, these people saved me. Like, these. Like, these people are trying their best, and isn't that what we need? And, like, starts getting people excited, and that causes the ghost to start pacifying. And he's like, oh, my God.

01:26:32
Case Aiken
And like, maybe Lewis like starts this like them doing this like collective song or something to that effect that like gets them like together as New Yorkers. Like, you know, like, when you mess with one of us, you mess with all of us.

01:26:43
Sam Alicea
Yeah, we. And we love that. I can, I can speak for that.

01:26:46
Case Aiken
So we build to this point.

01:26:47
Sam Alicea
Way to go, Louis. Way to go, Louis.

01:26:49
Case Aiken
And then Louis is the one who's like, well, but we still need a business.

01:26:54
Vin Macri
But I'll save it.

01:26:56
Sam Alicea
No, wait, wait. Winston's the one that says, we still need a business. Louis can do this. I'm sorry. I got it. I gotta, you know, I need to. I need to even this out for Ernie Hudson because he got screwed.

01:27:08
Case Aiken
No, you're absolutely right. Maybe, maybe Lewis says, hey, but what are we going to do for money anymore? And then Winston says something, but he says it in technical jargon. And you know, he can actually then say, well, what if we, you know, like collected samples from the ghosts after they've become so excited and happy.

01:27:23
Sam Alicea
Then he sings something and makes sense,.

01:27:24
Case Aiken
But in a technical way. And then Ray and Egon get really excited and Venkman is like, kind of confused. And then like Dana's like, I'll tell you about it when you're older.

01:27:34
Sam Alicea
Love it. Yes. Yes. This is. This is the movie we deserved.

01:27:38
Vin Macri
That is it. That is the movie. That is it.

01:27:41
Case Aiken
So we built all of that together because Bustin makes me feel so good.

01:27:50
Vin Macri
It's been there in front of us the whole time.

01:27:53
Case Aiken
Yes. They just didn't understand what the name's supposed to mean.

01:27:57
Sam Alicea
And really the real goal is the ghost friends we made along the way. Yes. That's the gift. That's. That's the miracle. And now they can go see Harry Houdini perform all the time. But they scheduled it. They have scheduled it well, and that.

01:28:14
Case Aiken
Can be on Peter's show, for example. Like he like now he can be the host for the. The host for the ghost.

01:28:22
Sam Alicea
You've heard about him and I've had a long conversation with him. Oh God. Ulysses S. Grant. He is not sober.

01:28:33
Case Aiken
Yeah, now. Now I just want the credits to just be Peter now is like a late night host, like hat like, you know, a full on Carson style. Like just chatting with like different spectral figures and just his cutting between different ones.

01:28:45
Sam Alicea
Leader or his like little sidekick is slimer.

01:28:47
Case Aiken
Yes.

01:28:50
Sam Alicea
And he's like, what do you think of that? Slimer. Slimer's like just Eating shit in the corner.

01:28:55
Case Aiken
Well, so Slimer is his Andy Richter.

01:29:02
Sam Alicea
He's just eating. He never says anything, but he keeps cutting to him, like, asking him for things.

01:29:10
Case Aiken
I'm going to be honest, even when we took the break for pitches, I wasn't sure I was going to be as happy with this round of pitches as I am now. I feel like we really made something here, guys.

01:29:22
Vin Macri
I think we did. I think we did. I want to see this. I want to see this movie now.

01:29:27
Sam Alicea
Yeah. At one point, Slimer can slide across the desk and be like, well, this is disgusting. So this show is over. Thanks, everybody. It would be great. I'd actually just like to see that talk show.

01:29:41
Case Aiken
Absolutely.

01:29:42
Vin Macri
Make it happen.

01:29:43
Sam Alicea
Anyone?

01:29:43
Vin Macri
It could be. It could be a podcast on this network.

01:29:47
Case Aiken
So I do know people who have a podcast that's called Sex with Ghosts. So maybe we're not too far off from what could be a hit show.

01:29:55
Vin Macri
Gotta love it.

01:29:56
Case Aiken
Yeah. Well, this is a lot of fun.

01:30:00
Sam Alicea
On that note.

01:30:02
Case Aiken
Yeah. On that note, Vin, thank you again for coming on. As we said at the top, you composed our theme, but you got other stuff going on. Where can people find you if they want to listen to you? I know you have a baby, so it's not like you're doing a lot.

01:30:14
Vin Macri
At the moment, but they can go to vinmacri.com, listen to all my lovely tunes.

01:30:23
Case Aiken
Yeah. So everyone should check out vinmacri.com Vin has a wonderful catalog of music. Like, the first time I ripped off his shit to use on a. On a film that I was working on, I was like, oh, wow. There's a way bigger genre than I expected.

01:30:35
Vin Macri
Yes. But you're the only one that gets the full pass.

01:30:40
Case Aiken
Right? No one else will get another pass.

01:30:42
Vin Macri
Yes. I just lob it up there for you. Well, thank you, King. Thank you for Sam. This. This was fantastic. And I really want to see this new Ghostbusters film. Yeah, I really do.

01:30:57
Case Aiken
Sam, if people want to find you, where can they find you?

01:31:01
Sam Alicea
They can find me here at another pass, and they can find me sometimes on our Discord. But I must admit that I am just a specter that haunt's case every now and then. And so just for the podcast. So I don't exist. So if you have any complaints at all about anything I said about the Yankees or New Jersey, I think I've said something about Long island in the past. You can direct those at Case and case. They can find you where they can.

01:31:32
Case Aiken
Find me on Twitter, Aesakin. They can find the Podcast N Other Pass. They can find more episodes of this show@ certainpov.com where you can find tons of other great shows. If you're looking retroactively to important figures of history, because, I don't know, you want to use them in your screenplay about ghosts, you should check out one of our newest shows, which is the United States of Women. It is a show that has come over from the Geek Elite podcast network where Elizabeth and Jessica. Each episode goes through. Well, each season goes through a different state as it joined the union, looking at eight important women that are often not as discussed in history. It's really cool. I'm just flabbergasted that we have something that's like such a cool project on our network now. So definitely check that out.

01:32:16
Case Aiken
Meanwhile, I've got other stuff that I work on. So when this episode drops on Men of Steel, we'll have just had our 100th episode. We'll be talking about All Star Superman, both the comic and the movie. So check that out. Meanwhile, on our YouTube station, we've got the Superman analog videos, where at that point, we'll be doing a rundown on Supergirls. And then when this episode drops, we'll have just done an episode of Another Pass on Murder on the Orient Express. But, Sam, what have we got up next time?

01:32:47
Sam Alicea
Well, next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.

01:32:59
Case Aiken
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.

01:33:13
Sam Alicea
Another pass is a certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam, Alice and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri. And our outro theme is by Matt Brogan.

01:33:28
Case Aiken
Cool. And Vin doesn't need to do it because he's Zoom.

01:33:30
Vin Macri
All right.

01:33:33
Case Aiken
No, actually. Actually, Vin, you should still. Because if we use your Zoom audio, but then our local. So let's do one more.

01:33:39
Vin Macri
I was like, I don't have to. This is great.

01:33:41
Case Aiken
Yeah, no, because, like, that's the last two. All right.

01:33:44
Sam Alicea
Honestly, this time is because you were smacking smack, talking about Viggo, and he totally possessed your computer, and that's what happened. I mean, that's what you get. Maybe you should be afraid of ghosts.

01:33:53
Vin Macri
The negative slime. You were overtaken by the negative slime. That's what did it. The negativity was flowing through. You need some good, positively charged slime to get you.

01:34:03
Sam Alicea
Say nice things about Vigo. Say them. Yes. You don't have to. There's not much to say about that.

01:34:08
Case Aiken
Negative slime overtakes me too often.

01:34:11
Sam Alicea
All right, we're back.

01:34:12
Case Aiken
Too many metaphors that they don't use in this movie. CPOV certainpov.com.