Episode 80 - Legion Lost - with Chris Batista
Before their redefining run on Guardians of the Galaxy, Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning envisioned a future that was both optimistic and desperate in Legion Lost. To discuss this shot in the arm to counter the late 90s ennui that had beset The Legion Of Superheroes, Case and Jmike are joined by former Legion artist, Chris Batista. Come. Gush. Unlax. Because… Grife… this nass is sprocking dope!
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Men of Steel Full Episode
Originally aired: December 17, 2021
Edited by Matt Storm
Scored by Gen Moonen
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⏱️ Chapters
00:00 Welcome and Introduction
00:49 Introducing Legion Lost
01:13 Meet Chris Batista
01:58 Chris’s History with the Legion
04:20 The Legion’s Many Reboots
06:06 The Post-Zero Hour Legion
08:01 Introducing Legion Lost
09:12 Stripping the Legion Down to Its Core
10:06 Jmike’s First Impressions
10:50 Saturn Girl’s Big Twist
11:49 The Progenitor Reveal
12:13 Element Lad’s Terrifying Power Upgrade
13:01 Making Monstress Matter
14:14 Legion Lost as a D&D Campaign
14:51 Ultra Boy’s Invulnerability
15:59 Why the Story Works So Well
16:36 Apparition and Saturn Girl
17:00 The Post-Reboot Legion Names
18:45 Reintroducing Wildfire
21:20 Introducing Shikari
23:01 Shikari and the Pathfinders
24:06 The Legionnaires Lost to Continuity
25:16 Shikari as a Reinvention of Dawnstar
27:22 The Fremen Influence
28:06 The Progeny
29:48 The Omniphagos
30:31 Element Lad After Millions of Years
31:27 The Original Plan to Bring Jan Back
32:36 Bringing Back Livewire
35:00 Updating Classic Legion Stories
36:27 Wildfire and the New Legion
37:02 Livewire Steps Up as a Leader
38:26 Understanding the Progenitor
39:29 Monstress’s Death
40:09 Saturn Girl Holds the Line
41:21 Telepathy and the Saturn Symbol
42:35 Why Saturn Girl Kept the Lie Going
43:31 The Legion Lost Survivors as a Unit
44:19 Reinventing Umbra
45:55 Making the Legion Truly a Legion
47:18 The Legion as the Justice League of the Future
47:57 Brainiac 5.1
48:53 Brainiac 5 Runs Out of Answers
50:36 Livewire the Farmer
52:44 Why Legion Lost Rewards a Reread
53:09 Abnett and Lanning’s Cosmic Legacy
54:56 The Guardians of the Galaxy Connection
58:52 Legion Lost as a Gateway to the Team
01:00:04 Livewire’s Sacrifice
01:00:46 Legion Worlds and What Came Next
01:02:34 Chris’s Time on the Legion
01:02:57 Plans for the Blight
01:04:43 The Reboot That Cut the Run Short
01:05:38 Why Legion Lost Still Matters
01:06:14 Chris on Olivier Coipel’s Influence
01:07:47 Rebooting the Legion Without Losing It
01:08:53 Bringing Superboy Back to the Legion
01:10:31 Chris’s Unmade Legion Stories
01:12:24 Jmike’s Final Thoughts
01:13:46 Why New Readers Should Continue
01:14:11 Legion Lost vs. The Great Darkness Saga
01:15:54 Where the Story Goes Next
01:17:44 Final Thoughts
01:19:12 Next Time: Miracleman
01:19:58 Chris’s Plugs
01:21:44 CPOV Plugs
01:22:27 Jmike’s Plugs
01:22:45 Chris’s Socials
01:23:18 Closing
01:24:02 Screen Snark Promo
01:25:11 CPOV Tag
Transcription
00:00
Case Aiken
The progeny we haven't talked about that much yet. And we should probably mention that since they're the main antagonist of this. Yeah. What? Way to make us just hate a villain real quick and then continue to hate them the entire time. Sometimes you just need someone that bad to be your bad gu. Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Men of Steel podcast. I am Case Aiken and as always, I am joined by my co host, Jmike Folson.
00:47
Jmike Folson
Welcome back, everybody. Glad to have you.
00:49
Case Aiken
And today we are continuing our. Our little tour down the history of the Legion of Superheroes. Today we are going to be talking about the. The post boot era of the Legion. Specifically, we're going to be talking about the story Legion Lost, which is one of my favorite from that era. And to do that, we have a true Legion of Superheroes fan, but more importantly, a professional in the comics industry. We've got Chris Bautista.
01:12
Chris Batista
Hello, everybody. Happy to be here.
01:13
Case Aiken
Chris. Welcome to the show. You and I have been friends for a good long while, since I was a bartender on the Upper east side and you were one of my regulars.
01:22
Chris Batista
Yeah, I remember those days.
01:23
Case Aiken
Oh, God. And you and I have kept up over the years and you even designed the logo for our series. But yeah, you've not been on the show yet, which is a travesty because we're 80 episodes in.
01:34
Chris Batista
Yes, it is. Hopefully we'll have to do this again.
01:37
Case Aiken
Well, I'm sorry about that, but, you know, it's. You know, I didn't want to take up your time too much, but I do appreciate you coming on.
01:43
Chris Batista
No apologies needed. You know, these are fun to do,.
01:45
Case Aiken
But yeah, so we were talking before we started rolling. We're talking about the Legion of Superheroes. Chris, you've actually worked on the Legion of Superheroes. Do you want to give just sort of your experience with the Legion and then a little bit about your professional experience?
01:57
Jmike Folson
Okay.
01:58
Chris Batista
Well, as a kid, the Legion was among one of my favorite comics. I didn't read a lot of D.C. at the time. I loved Superman, but Superman comics were kind of dull. I didn't really have the appreciation for Kurt Swan the way I do now, but I remember really digging Superboy in the Legion of Superhero stories because he was more of a man of action. He got things done. And those Legion stories, they were very kinetic. They were. They were always something going on. And Superboy was just so cool in them. And so, yeah, grew up a lifelong fan of the Legion. I'd been working in comics for quite some time, and I was at DC Comics And I heard that Olivier Coypel had just left the Legion. And Olivier was obviously, he's a superstar. He's amazing.
02:49
Chris Batista
And he had done such an incredible run on Legion. Like, I loved that run. He brought so much coolness to the Legion, and I'm shocked that DC let him go. And I heard that, you know, they were looking for an artist, and I freaked out. So I was like, so, like, oh, my God. Oh, my God. And I looked at the proper channels and the editor was a really great guy. He and I got along really well. And they said, well, we have a five issue story arc right now, and then we'll figure out if you could just. We're looking for a replacement artist, so if you could just help us get there. And Abnett and Lanning were writing it, who were friends of mine. And so I started. I did the five issues. I officially met Dan andy, and they were awesome.
03:37
Chris Batista
And they loved the job that I did on the book as I was, like, totally fanboying on every page. So I put in all these little Legion nods and they loved the job I did. And they were like, listen, can you stay on the book? I said, yeah. And then they told me that, as I agreed to do it, was that their plans were to bring in Superboy and to also do their nod to the great Darkness saga. So, yeah, I was a very happy little boy and worked on the book for a while until were all unceremoniously taken off the book or a reboot. So, yeah, and I mean, I've done more Legion stuff after that with all Levitz and nothing on the Legion since. Maybe someday, but we'll see if DC's interested.
04:20
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's. It's a property that's been affected a lot by all the shakeups and continuity that they've been doing. It had such a strong one up until, well, really crisis. But then Zero Hour started the whole chain of, like, oh, infinite reboots. And that seems to have continued.
04:36
Chris Batista
The reboots can really hurt a book. You know, it's like, now it's. What is it? The fourth one they're on. And it's like, I really thought that the reboot they did in the first place was actually quite clever, connected to Zero Hour because it had a. It took a while to find its legs, but it did find them. And it was done, you know, relatively in continuity and paid homage to the, you know, the first run of the Legion.
05:01
Jmike Folson
That's like.
05:02
Chris Batista
I'm not too familiar with the latest one. I think I've read one or two issues from the Bend of Stuff, but, you know, I didn't really connect to them yet. So maybe I would on later issues. But as a Legion fan and as a guy who worked on the Legion, we kind of have our own really dead set opinions. So it's kind of like when I see someone making radical changes to the Legion, you know, the purest enemy is like, you can't do that. So, you know, it's like. But then again, there are instances where you sometimes do something so different that it's actually amazing and you go, damn it, that really good. But that's the thing, you know, if you're going to break it, you got to break it really well.
05:39
Chris Batista
So I haven't read enough to agree or disagree with that opinion yet. Maybe someday.
05:45
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, it's unfortunate that the team has become known for its reboots. The fact that we've had crossovers about all the different teams teaming up with each other, that, you know, we can have overlapping reboots occurring at the same time, such as the case recently when Bendis was rolling it out, but Doomsday Clock was also still rolling at that time.
06:03
Chris Batista
Yeah, it was supposed to be long since done, right.
06:06
Case Aiken
Yeah. But this era that we're talking about is the. Is the first true reboot. Because after Crisis, they had a hard time figuring out how to make sense of it all. But technically it wasn't a full reboot. They just shifted some characters around. They introduced a pocket universe Superboy, and then later had a. A Dax Mite girl, Laurel Gand, replace Supergirl in their canon. But the actual story theoretically was still continuing from the earlier tales that we had experienced.
06:32
Chris Batista
And I love Laurel Gand.
06:34
Case Aiken
The Laurel Gand is great. And man, what a wonder. Like, probably the best part about the like, quote unquote, five year gap period was in my opinion, Laurel Gand as just a wonderful Supergirl that they were allowed to do stuff with, like, she could actually grow and be an adult.
06:50
Chris Batista
Keith had done such a really amazing job of inheriting a really bad problem, like removing Superboy and all that, like a gigantic hole. But they ended up coming up with rather elegant solutions when they didn't have much choice, and putting Mon El in that kind of lead role and putting him in a Superboy role and taking advantage of his thousand year status. Like, really great stuff they did with beer bombs as well. Like, loved what they did. It was like, wow, you guys actually made that work. It took a while. They did make it work.
07:25
Case Aiken
Yeah. Much, much better than their first attempt. But what we're talking about today is actually is the post boot era. It's the first reboot that, the first real reboot that came after Zero Hour, where what I would say is effectively the equivalent of the ultimate universe which were talking about last time. Like, how do you do a retcon? This, this is one where, yeah, we're going to set it back to zero. We're going to update a lot of the stuff going on, but we can do stories that are homages to earlier stories, just like updated for the times. And so it was a really good way to get people up to speed in what felt like a modern version of these characters.
07:59
Chris Batista
Yeah, I agree.
08:01
Case Aiken
But as was the problem with like say the Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider man run, there's a lull when you just are at a certain point doing story after story. Like all the famous ones, like you've done them all, like, how excited are you going to be anymore with this new era? And so that was kind of a situation that was happening with the Legion until an attempt to bring interest back in occurred. And that was this 12 part series called Legion Lost, which was written by, as you mentioned, Dan Abnett andy Lanning, who are famous for doing space comics under the nickname DNA.
08:37
Chris Batista
Oh yeah.
08:39
Case Aiken
You know what's fascinating, looking at this book? So it's a 12 issue arc where they take a bunch of legionnaires, they throw them into a galaxy that they're not familiar with and strip them of a bunch of their resources and figure out a way for them to get home. And the whole time there's like miniseries of an other book that's like indicating that everyone thinks that they're dead. But this was the main Legion book that year that this came out. Like this was. All right, if you ha. If you're not familiar with Legion, we're going to get you up to speed on the Legion. We're going to show why they're cool, we're going to show you why they matter and show how resourceful they are when they don't have all the power that they normally have.
09:12
Case Aiken
You know, we've talked about how the Legion, they can fly, they can survive in space. There are so many of them and they're so powerful. Well, what if you strip them down to the core? This is a very like back to basics kind of book that doesn't make it feel like it is alienating the concept because they are all trying to live up to the ideal of the Legion, but separated from it, while at the same time not. Not being so intimidating for people who just don't know anything about the Legion.
09:39
Chris Batista
Yeah, that's a good way to point it. It was definitely an attempt to distill it down to its essence. And by, like you said, stripping everything away, that makes them the obvious point. The Legion, you know, they have all the advantages. They've got all the tech. You know, they've got spaceships, you know, but here, they're. It's. It's like a threadbare cabinet, and they've just got to keep going. And, yeah, it's, to this day, still one of my favorite maxi series of all time.
10:06
Case Aiken
Yeah. Now, J. Mike, you have only recently been getting into Legion stuff, and that is entirely because I've been digitally twisting your arm. I mean, what do you think of this?
10:17
Jmike Folson
Are we getting to spoiler territory here already or.
10:19
Case Aiken
Yeah, well, I mean, look, this show just assumes that people are familiar with.
10:23
Chris Batista
At least I would hope so.
10:24
Case Aiken
A little bit of our source material.
10:26
Jmike Folson
This. I actually really like this one better than the other stories we read. Darkness Saga had Darkseid on the front cover, so you automatically knew what you were getting into, and you're like, all right, cool, whatever. This one. Oh, man, this one was really good. It started off. I was really confused with the bug people in the beginning, but, like, as went along the twists and turns that the story took in. The big reveal of Saturn Girl and her. Her mind manipulations.
10:50
Case Aiken
Oh, yeah, that one hurt. I totally forgot about that twist. Like, I remember. I remember the gut. Totally forgot about that one.
11:00
Jmike Folson
That's rough. And then. Yeah, that was.
11:03
Chris Batista
That was a rough one. I remember that. I was reading it as it came out every month.
11:07
Jmike Folson
They were so happy. And then they figured out how to, like, bring her consciousness back, and everyone starts evaporating. I was like, bruh, that's.
11:14
Chris Batista
Yeah. And then fend the girl. Yeah, that was the one that really stung because it was like, oh, no. Even climax.
11:24
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah.
11:26
Jmike Folson
Everyone's all happy, and they're like, yeah.
11:28
Chris Batista
You're actually cheering. You know, you saw them being the Legion, and they really made your heart sore. And then, boom. Not only is it all fake, but then they pull the final twist within the twist, and you're just like, holy cow. No, no, no, no. You can't do that. You can't do that. And I'm like, yep.
11:49
Jmike Folson
And then the ending with Jan. Oh, yeah.
11:52
Chris Batista
With Jan being the progenitor.
11:54
Jmike Folson
Yeah. I thought it was Darkseid again. I was about to be upset because they, like. They did, like, the shadow reveal of the guys taking the chair.
12:00
Case Aiken
Oh, yeah.
12:00
Jmike Folson
And I was like, not again. This guy can't be everywhere all the time. Come on.
12:07
Case Aiken
I think it was very effective in that regard, especially because it's taking a character whose power set does allow for these things.
12:13
Chris Batista
Yeah.
12:13
Case Aiken
But has never been allowed to do these things. Like, his powers are the same as, like, the Molecule man or really, like, Dr. Manhattan.
12:19
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
12:20
Case Aiken
But he's always been a lower tier, like. Like a less powerful version of that. He's had restrictions, like, can't do it to organic stuff, or it's for limited times or just only so much. Only so much power to do it, but. Wow, that's an upgrade on a character.
12:34
Chris Batista
Yeah, well, you put a guy. You put any one of us millions of years by themselves, their mind's gonna go, you know, he makes up a universe, you know, because he just starts messing with the primordial muck and trying to. Turning into things. And that was just unbelievable. It was great that he was the bad guy, yet he wasn't the bad guy, not in the traditional sense.
12:57
Jmike Folson
I loved that Rip. Monster Girl.
13:01
Chris Batista
Oh, and also, yeah, when you said monster Girl, that was one of the characters I fucking hated. I didn't like Monster Girl. And they made me care.
13:09
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
13:10
Chris Batista
Like, when she died, I actually had a reaction. I was like, thank you. Like, five years ago, I wouldn't have cared. Yeah.
13:18
Jmike Folson
Because like. Like, they were having this soft moment together, and they were talking. He was like, oh, I feel bad. Psych. Boom. And I was like.
13:25
Chris Batista
And, like, you're thinking, the next issue, she's back. No, she was literally, like, part of her skeleton was still there smoking.
13:32
Case Aiken
And you're like, yeah.
13:33
Chris Batista
Holy cow, she's really dead. It was that Game of Thrones moment, you know, with that star, and you're just like. And they. They pulled the trigger. They pulled the damn trigger. And it was just a really epic moment that I. It's like every issue kept upping the ante in ways that kept a. You were emotionally involved. The story actually had twist after twist that all, like, was all character motivated. But, like, you actually had a story. Like, each character was really getting to you, but that story just kept pulling you and pulling you. And I was. Oh, man. Every issue. Because I was so glad to be reading the Legion again. It was like, wow, this is great. I've got to get the next issue, too.
14:14
Case Aiken
Yeah. You know what? So this is honestly like an amazing D and D campaign. Like, the setup from the beginning is, all right, so we've got like our session zero where they all wake up and they're like, what's going on? How do we figure this whole thing out? Oh, there's a minor threat that we can deal with our first level characters. And then each issue is like either a nice driving the larger story beat, or there are these sub story beats that have callback points to it. Like when they encounter that superhero that's being imprisoned on that world, like, that's a side quest. But that side quest informs a lot of stuff that's going on. And in fact, it sets up the Saturn Girl stuff, which is cool. And also, how fucking cool was that?
14:51
Case Aiken
The Ultra Boy, if he turned on his invulnerability was not affected by. All of a sudden he grew.
14:57
Chris Batista
Yeah, that was great.
14:59
Case Aiken
That was such a clever use of that power.
15:01
Chris Batista
Yes, it was. It was. It was. You know what it was? It was actually clever little callback to something that Keith Giffen did in the five Year Legion was that Ultra Boy was a smuggler and he was being targeted for assassination. And he wasn't a Legionnaire anymore. But these two guys blow up his entire building to get to him. And their assumption is, he's dead, we're out of here. He didn't even see us coming. And Ultra Boy comes out of the wreckage. The thing is, he goes. He can only use one power at a time. So invulnerability is a path of power. So he added on all the time. And it wasn't out of just paranoia. It was just, aw, he just had it on all the time. And he had to remind them, have it on all the time. Idiots.
15:42
Chris Batista
And then he kicks living shit out of them. I thought all of us fans were like, that's really cool. Because he actually would have to have a power on all the time. And then they used a version of it where it's like, yeah, his invulnerability would block the nanites or whatever was in his bloodstream. I was like, that was so cool. Was like, yes.
15:59
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah. That was a very cool moment there. And then everything just kind of works its way towards a big, bad, evil guy and even a Kaiju fight at the end. This is exactly what you want in a D and D game, but also it's exactly what you want in explaining why you should care about these characters. Like, you introduce each of them, you get good personal moments for each of them, and then you up the stakes appropriately. We get Apparition doing a monologue issue before we find out that she's actually a construct of Saturn Girl. And so what really this is. Is a Saturn Girl daydream, which makes the reread of that really weird.
16:34
Chris Batista
Yeah. Puts everything in different context.
16:36
Jmike Folson
Yeah. This dream, Ike, I like the whole thing with Saturn Girl, it took me a while to catch on because I wasn't sure what was happening or not. Yeah. So, like, I didn't know. I didn't. I didn't. It didn't click. The apparition wasn't what. She was just a daydream until, like, I was like, oh, she. She's really gone. Because now that I think about it, like, she kept only appearing when people needed her.
17:00
Case Aiken
Okay, so, J. Mike.
17:01
Jmike Folson
Yes.
17:01
Chris Batista
In.
17:02
Case Aiken
In this post reboot era, a lot of the characters had their names changed to be, like, more modern superhero characters at this time. Like, how Lightning Lad had been changed to Live Wire was that. Did, like, that throw you or anything? Like, did you.
17:15
Jmike Folson
So it. I didn't get. I didn't get that Livewire was Lightning lady until, like, much later on, I was like, oh, okay, there. They took another, like, age jump again, sort of. I guess, because I forget. In Dark side Saga, you had, like, the little so proper relationships of stuff going on the side. And I thought Lightning Lad was, like, married to someone else. I couldn't remember. So I just kind of wrote that off until they actually started talking about it, because I forget who he was talking to. I think he was talking to the shapeshifter. What's his name?
17:54
Case Aiken
Chameleon.
17:55
Jmike Folson
Chameleon Boy about it. He was like, yeah, they were about to. They were talking about getting married and stuff, and I was like, oh, okay. Well, I guess that is Lightning Lad.
18:03
Case Aiken
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's de Aging in this scenario. But it actually kept most of the relationship the same. Like, they would. They experimented a little bit. Like, Saturn Girl had, like, a brief period where she was dating Cosmic Boy earlier in the. In the run. But, yeah, generally they actually moved towards the same pairings that had been done before.
18:23
Chris Batista
Yeah, they were keeping it pretty consistent because there's one thing with Legion fans can't change. The things that they love. You will get hollered at. Legion fans are. I mean, there's that toxic fandom, and there's so much of it in comics. Oh, so much. But Legion fans, very hard.
18:42
Jmike Folson
Dear comic book writers, you break their.
18:45
Chris Batista
Toy, you better break it. Well, it's like one of the things I loved about Legion Lost was. They did. They did roll the dice on things. And then they brought. In. One of my favorite Legion characters was Wildfire. There had been no Wildfire in the reboot at all. And it was kind of sad because Wildfire is, like, a fan favorite. Everyone loved them, and what DNA did with him was just awesome. I loved it. And Coypel gave him this killer nightlight, inspired outfit. And I'm a purist. I can't mess with my character's costume designs, but damn it, Olivier did a great costume design.
19:24
Case Aiken
Yeah, this was a good update.
19:25
Chris Batista
I was like, that's a beautiful design. I was like, okay. It's funny is that when I was on the Legion, my editor said that I could. He allowed me to redesign Wildfire, but we can use the Dave Cockrom costume if you want. And I said, no. I actually love Olivier's design. The only thing I took off was he had this. This, like, rocket pack. I went back to, like, the Giffen use of energy coming out of his boots and stuff that he would run. Yeah, I preferred that. But overall, I kept his design identical to just a beautiful design. And all the fans, you know, who, like I said, are very hard to please, they loved the return of Wildfire. They were like, yep, okay, it's good. It's like, you did a great job. Love it, love it.
20:08
Chris Batista
So it's like you give them what they want. You can change it up a little, you know, but if you're going to do it really, really well, particularly with Legion.
20:17
Case Aiken
Yeah, this was a really nice update for Wildfire, like, because he keeps the same basic shape of everything. It's just that there's a few spots that were already artificial. It's like Iron Man. Like, no one really cares if you change Iron Man's, like, the specific shape of his armor, because he's expected to keep on updating it. Like, it's not the. It's the general aesthetic more so than the specific look.
20:36
Chris Batista
We had the helmet, but I also loved the tunic, kind of. It was like a night tunic. You know, it looked very medieval, and it was subtle. And I was like, that's a. And it wasn't. Also, it wasn't a very busy design. It was very simple at its core. Like, Olivier is a great designer, and I loved that design. It's like the helmet had this little bridge on top of it, like a visor type thing, and it still kept that cockroach aesthetic, but it looked a little more futuristic without going too far. Like, the Hot design. Like, really something.
21:08
Case Aiken
Yeah, that was a really good one. I really liked how they built up to his name, where they kept calling.
21:12
Chris Batista
Him, like, Feral Star.
21:13
Case Aiken
Yeah.
21:14
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
21:14
Chris Batista
Oh, and another. We were forgetting another character that it took me a while with Legion Lost.
21:20
Case Aiken
That's the pivot point right there.
21:22
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
21:23
Chris Batista
One of my favorite characters that came out of Legion Lost, and to this day is one of my absolute favorite Legionnaires, is Shikari. Yeah, Shikari is awesome. And funnily enough, when I spoke to Dan andy about her, they didn't mean. It wasn't their intention. It just turned out that way, that she actually turned out to be a reinvention of Dawnstar.
21:43
Case Aiken
Yes.
21:45
Chris Batista
They didn't mean to do it, though. That's the thing. They weren't setting out to reboot Dawnstar. She just turned out that way. And in many ways, I loved her more than Dawnstar because I always thought Dawnstar in the actual Legion comics, you know, she's great, but she seemed kind of useless if she wasn't tracking anything well.
22:05
Case Aiken
And she was a bit much, you know?
22:07
Chris Batista
Yeah, she just was, you know. I don't know. I always thought if you were going to really embrace that whole, you know, Native American aspect and the wandering tribes and stuff, you. I think they should have just made her a warrior and done some really cool things with her. But they always kept her kind of.
22:26
Jmike Folson
Eh.
22:26
Chris Batista
Yeah, she was. I mean, I get her. She was a great visual. She brought some color to the team, like, really badly needed color, but they never really took advantage of it. And then with Chikari, with her people and her tribes and just her skin, her metallic metal skin and her warrior instinct and her innocence. Loved, loved Hikari. But she's just.
22:47
Jmike Folson
Her names were always the best. I always started laughing when I was.
22:50
Chris Batista
Reading when she gets everyone's name wrong.
22:53
Case Aiken
Legion. Stop calling me that. Eventually I'm gonna get upset.
22:57
Chris Batista
You know, Brown Legion, Orange Legion.
22:59
Jmike Folson
Yeah. Dark Legion. Great.
23:01
Chris Batista
You know, and also, her people were very cool. Like, the use of their powers, how they were all pathfinders and how that pays off later in Legion, how they have these portals and stuff. And, you know, it's not just like this simple. You hit a button, you have a portal. We get from one world to the other. These guys were the guys that found the pathways between the stars. And I thought that was incredibly original and really cool, and it added some serious value to Jacari and her people. It was like a great addition. Like, just the Legion itself. Like, overall, these are really cool people. Like, this is a great race, and I loved that. I just insisted. And I'm so sad that with all the reboots, where the hell did Shikari go? She's gone.
23:44
Case Aiken
Yeah. I mean, she's. She's just a character who's kind of, like, bound to this continuity. And unfortunately, unlike other characters from this era, like Xs, for example, who, by virtue of her being connected to the Flash mythos, has come back in other.
23:56
Chris Batista
Forms, and she was another favorite legionnaire of mine, you know, like, you know, at first, I wasn't really a big fan, but they. They did great things, especially DNA, and, you know.
24:06
Case Aiken
Well, I mean, like, I'm a big fan of a lot of the. Like, we. You know, we don't see them all in this. In. In this series specifically, but, like, there's a lot of Legion characters created during the, like, the reboot era that just don't fit in because they're. They're not part of the older era, so they're not part of the ones that are more referential to the older era or. Or the Three Boot, for that matter. Like, Gates. Excess, you know, monstrous. Even though she had a monster girl.
24:31
Chris Batista
I love Gates. I love Gates.
24:32
Case Aiken
Yeah. Oh, God, is so great. It's a bug version of Nightcrawler.
24:36
Chris Batista
Yeah. And he's. He's just an asshole, and he's, like, got political opinions, you know? Right. Love Gates.
24:42
Case Aiken
Yeah. And then Shikari is the. Like, another one where it's just like. Yep. Well, if you have Dawnstar, you can't have Shikari slash Lone Star. Like, it just.
24:50
Chris Batista
No, I understand why. It's just that I found her, like, once again, I'm a purist, but if you do it and you do it really well, I'm like, damn, that's really good. I love this version. You know, like, she's great. And like I said, these guys did not mean to reinterpret Dawnstar. It wasn't their intention in the start. She just kind of turned out that way. I think that's even cooler.
25:16
Case Aiken
When you say it just kind of turned out that way. Do you mean, like, it turned out that way once they started writing the character, like, a few issues in? Because there's definitely an issue where it feels like that pivot.
25:26
Chris Batista
I'm not sure when they came to the realization. It's just that when I asked them about that, because I didn't realize when reading Legion Lost that she was actually a reinterpretation of Dawnstar, because I was reading her as a new character, so I didn't make the connection until, like, several issues in which really surprised me. I'm pretty. Pretty astute when it comes to Legion stuff like, oh, wait a minute. That's. That's Lone Star. Holy cow. I love it. That's really awesome.
25:52
Case Aiken
Well, I think it's the issue where we meet her people that it really becomes, like, very clear because they call her Lone Star right there, which is such an obvious parallel point there. At that point, they had emphasized the Pathfinder stuff. So you got like, oh, she's a tracking power.
26:06
Jmike Folson
Okay.
26:07
Case Aiken
I think those are the spots. And then, you know, you've got this sort of like, nomadic tribe thing that has, you know, Native American kind of connotations to it, but it isn't as. It isn't as direct. Like, you know, Dawnstar is difficult to use in updated versions because she's just a space Indian. And, like, that's.
26:22
Chris Batista
Yes.
26:23
Case Aiken
Really weird.
26:25
Chris Batista
Yeah. I mean, you could do something really cool with that. But there's like. It's funny that when people do it, they're. They're almost afraid of stepping on people's toes or if I make her a warrior and it's like, you know, oh, they're saying that all Indians, you know, are, you know, are all savages. It's like, no, no. It's different kinds of Indian tribes and they all had different, you know, different takes. So it's like, just go for it.
26:50
Case Aiken
It's just one.
26:51
Chris Batista
Like, make her a badass.
26:53
Case Aiken
Well, but it's just one. Like, if you're going to use that character, definitely someone should be having some kind of voice in the character that isn't just a white man. Yeah, that's just the thing about that character.
27:07
Chris Batista
Do your research. You know, be factual and be, you know, be reverent of the people that you are basing it on. And by all means, just don't go and do your own interpretation if she's literally of that descent, you know, it's like too much of that in comics.
27:22
Case Aiken
Yeah. So Shikari is safer to use in that regard. Like, I think that's cool. And then you get some cool stuff, like when they. When they lasso down the comet so that they can get ice from it to use for water. Yeah, that felt like some Fremen shit from Dune.
27:37
Chris Batista
Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if it was influenced by Doom, because those guys were huge Frank Herbert fans. So they definitely. Yeah, they loved the cool things. Also, the use weave that they created Wildfire out of, like an armor. It Was, like, strong as armor, but it had multiple uses. I just had a flashback to one of my favorite moments in it was when you had those aliens, the ones who were like the enforcers. They would roll in their shells. I forget what they're.
28:06
Case Aiken
The progeny.
28:06
Chris Batista
Yeah, the progeny. That. Right. And I think it's an issue that Peter Schneider. I don't know how to pronounce his last name. Drew. It wasn't one that Coypel Drew. And they were Saturn Girl. They were, like, going through this colony. I think it was where they showed that they were little children of the progeny that were beaten and abused. You saw the tears in Saturn Girl's eyes, and you saw, like, that moment that this is what Legion stand for. This is who we protect. That was that moment that made me, like, just go. I just, like, made my heart sore forgetting all the emotional beat. You know, they're making me love that this is what. And for. And that they were, like, there to protect, which was their enemy. But they still protected them and their children. I loved that. That was.
28:58
Chris Batista
I can't remember what number issue that was, but I do remember that moment. It was a true Legion moment. Was done, like, without words. It was like she just had. She turned them over and this progeny is, like, cowering and clearly terrified and. And she couldn't take it. And I was like. Yeah. And I think there was, like, a scene later where she's holding, like, a baby, young progeny, and it was just. That's my set.
29:21
Case Aiken
Yeah. I mean, like, what? The progeny. We haven't talked about that much yet. And we should probably mention that since they're the main antagonist of this. Yeah. Way to make us just hate a villain real quick and then continue to hate them the entire time. Sometimes you just need someone that bad to be your bad guy.
29:36
Chris Batista
Yep. And then they had that moment, and it was. It was. But that's the contrast, and that's what makes. You know, that's good writing. You know, that's what they're all about. Even if they're at their worth, they still did the right thing.
29:48
Jmike Folson
I mean, there was the. Was it the All. The. All Eater.
29:51
Case Aiken
The Omnifagos.
29:53
Chris Batista
The Omnifigus. The Omnifigus. That's what it was. Yeah. I loved that. I loved that. Especially how that comes in later.
30:00
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
30:01
Chris Batista
Where they. They just kind of absorb and cancel each other out. That was like, just such a brilliant solution.
30:07
Jmike Folson
It was totally that. That when they first meet him, it was totally like that whole aliens type Thing or the. When you first meet the. The flood on Halo. Right. They took everybody.
30:19
Case Aiken
Well, I love, like, I love that the arc it was in was a hard light construct. But the reason it looked like it had. It was made of rock was because it had accumulated so much dust over the, like, the billion years that had been there.
30:31
Chris Batista
Yeah. That the one thing that Jan said, he goes, huh? I don't recognize that. I didn't make this. You know, and it was like. That was cool. You know, it was like something that had gotten his curiosity after all these. I also love those scenes where Jan would forget your name.
30:47
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
30:47
Chris Batista
You know, because he just wasn't like. You had the perspective of a guy whose mind was changed by the riff. It had done something to him because of his nature of his powers and just this sheer solitude of being by himself for millions of years.
31:00
Jmike Folson
What were we saying?
31:01
Chris Batista
What was your name again? Like, I really thought that was cool because underlying it was that, you know, he is the bad guy, but he doesn't. He's not trying to be the bad guy. He's just. Options of good or evil are completely far removed from anything else. Oh, by the way, guys, this might be. Well, it's not a spoiler because, you know, they're not doing the book anymore. There was always a plan to bring Jen back.
31:27
Jmike Folson
Really?
31:28
Chris Batista
The real Element Lad. Oh, yeah.
31:30
Case Aiken
Well, his body comes back.
31:31
Chris Batista
Oh, no. But that was. See, what happened was they. We were all taken off the book way too soon and all those plot threads were going to be handled. His body was back. But the thing was, where was his mind?
31:44
Jmike Folson
Right?
31:45
Chris Batista
And I'm going to tell you where his mind was in the crystals. In the first issue that Kid Quantum had. Oh, shit. His mind is in there.
31:53
Case Aiken
Kid Quantum is like, talking about how she feels like his mind is in these crystals and it's. Oh, wow, that's perfect.
31:59
Chris Batista
It was. They were supposed to. It was supposed to come back later. Later was that you would get how they were going to get back. Lightning Lad or Livewire, whichever you prefer. Was easy. You don't have to clone his body. You basically have a twin sister who has all of his DNA. You program the DNA to be male and you grow it in a tank. There's your Garth. You know, it's. They have science of the 30th century. It's an easy solution. And then Jan would get his body back. His essence would be in that. That he had stored there somehow. I can't remember how. Like, they. They said that it was all related.
32:36
Case Aiken
But I, I mean, they show it in this. Like, I think there's actually quite a bit to support that hypothesis. I mean, you have firsthand knowledge. But like, they talk about that in this book. So that's actually perfect. And I, I love the Saturn or, pardon me, the. The Spark twist there. Lightning last for those not familiar with the 90s names because, like, she was introduced to be a MacGuffin to bring to save Lightning Lad. Like, that was her original purpose. And so they're utilizing that story of. Wow, that's actually doing such a classic Legion story, isn't it?
33:08
Chris Batista
Yeah, that's really takes advantage of an easy plot point. Like, how did you get him back? It's the 30th century. His DNA is there in the presence of her. They're literally, you know, just make it female, you know, male, program it that way and there you go. And just.
33:24
Case Aiken
Yeah, because they can get the Y chromosome from Met.
33:27
Chris Batista
Yep, there you go.
33:29
Case Aiken
Yeah, because he has a brother. Oh, that's perfect.
33:31
Chris Batista
All the information is there. And it's like the best solutions are the simple ones. And that's actually really simple because it makes perfect sense and it's not straining, you know, the credibility of it because it's the 30th century. You know, it's like. Yeah, it's like, I remember we'd yell at people and be like, astral Terminator has all the resources in the world. He has all the tech. He's the baddest guy in the world. And he's never thought to regrow his.
33:54
Case Aiken
Yeah, his eye.
33:56
Chris Batista
Actually, we had a story that I pitched with Adam and Lanning. They didn't do it was going to be Nightwing and Batman vs Deathstroke. And it was going to be this Born Identity type story. And when they have a final showdown with him, pattern of attack is to attack his left side. You know, that's where he has his blind spot. And in the course of the end of the issue, someone takes a Bataranger or something like that and he cuts it open. You know, bitches fight. And you realize that an eye are there the whole time and that their plan to take him down out the window. And then there's going to be like another issue where just the beating gets severe. My editor loved the idea. He's like, yeah, that makes perfect sense. Why wouldn't he get a new lie?
34:36
Chris Batista
You know, he's got all the resources in the world. It's the DC universe where they literally regrow people.
34:41
Jmike Folson
Yeah, yeah.
34:43
Case Aiken
Plus he has a healing factor.
34:44
Chris Batista
Yeah, there you go. You could just put an optic nerve in there and it would just regenerate because, you know, he would. So. Yes, so. But, yeah, simple solutions are always the best. But, yeah, they were. There was always a plan to bring back Dan.
35:00
Case Aiken
That's so good. Yeah. This is, again, the strength of this era. Like, like, this book, I think, does such a good job of doing those classic Legion stories in new ways with new circumstances, but still being respectful of the original ones. I think that's such a cool part of this. You know, again, it's. It's. It's Ultimate Spider Man. It's the same situation where you're doing. We're going to take that classic story and we're going to update it for modern time with new artists and new writers, and it will feel like a modern comic book, but it will still be a classic. Now, the purpose of that feels different now when we have, like, Marvel Unlimited and, like DC Infinite and, like, all these ways to read old comics. You know, we're talking about a comic right now that's 20 years old.
35:44
Case Aiken
It's been a while.
35:44
Chris Batista
Holy shit. It is 20 years old. That hurts.
35:47
Case Aiken
Yeah, I know. I know. It really hurts. But the point is, we easily could access it. Like, I already owned it on Comixology. It was like, oh, cool. Yeah, I can just, like, read it on my Chromebook, you know, I didn't need to, like, go digging for a heart like a trade paperback. So it is a different era now where people don't need to have updated versions of those old stories. So, you know, the purpose of a book like that might be more difficult to. To push, But I still think this is a really great use of those kind of things. You know, Shikari as a Dawn Star update, that's a nice slow burn there till we get her. You know, Wildfire, they set him up really well, and then all of a sudden he shows up and it's like, great. Awesome. We.
36:25
Case Aiken
We needed that character to. To be here.
36:27
Jmike Folson
Oh.
36:27
Case Aiken
And it's a wonderful update of the classic Wildfire. And he's got a good relationship with this Dawn Star equivalent. That's all really interesting, you know, and he's got just the right amount of angst, just like Wildfire always had about not being a human. Perfect. Set this all up, you know, gave us a back to basics team where we could explain like, yeah, this is, you know, Saturn Girl. You care about her because of this lightning lead. You care about Livewire. You care about him because of this Ultra Boy, et cetera. You do a story to get people hooked and then, like, as a shot in the arm to the franchise, while at the same time paying homage to classic stuff. It's such a delicate balance, and I can't believe they pulled it off.
37:02
Chris Batista
Well, one of the things I was. Based on what you said, I was just remembering key moments was it was issue 11 or 12, and they had just done this big space battle where it's the first time you see wildfire just loots. And he's going up against, well, starship, you know, engines and stuff like that. And it's just like, wow. And I'm, like, feeling the soundtrack go like, this is awesome. And they lose, though. But they go down swinging. And next thing you know, they're basically in a holding cell. Their powers are being suppressed by these little chips on their shoulders, and they start having a discussion about current circumstances. And it's an incredibly adult discussion about the nature of power and about intent. And it's funny, in this issue, you get to see Lightning Lad really step up into that leadership.
37:50
Chris Batista
And it's very subtle. Like, he's making these great decisions and the things that he's saying, and it's like, yeah, he's making really good points. And there was this, like, he regrew Lightning Light's arm, cybernetic arm. And he's like, you know, what are you talking about? Like, about intent. He made your arm. He shows you its power. He goes, yes, power. That's not intent. And it was this really great discussion on how they should proceed from then on. And it was all from Garth's point of view, and he was literally just stepping up to the plate. And, like, you forget that he was leader of the legion back in the old. One of my favorite scenes and had no action.
38:26
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, they do a really good job of talking about Jan. You know, like, we don't see Element Lad that much. Like, we see him at the beginning where we. He's the. Basically the narrator. And then we see everyone talk about him. Like, Kid Quantum is obviously very touched by his sacrifice at. To save their lives and so forth, but, you know, he's not around. And then when he shows up again, he's insane. But it's such a nice, like, oh, there's no switch. It's not like, all of a sudden he's bad. Like, they actually have to talk it out and be like. Like, try to understand advantage point. Like, they. They make a big point to be like, he's not necessarily evil. He's Just so detached at this point that it doesn't even matter. Like morality is so gone from him.
39:03
Case Aiken
You know, again, I make a Dr. Manhattan comparison.
39:05
Chris Batista
Yeah, he was alone for millions of years.
39:07
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah. Like I said, like a Dr. Manhattan. Just so detached from humanity that like morality is not even part of the conversation.
39:13
Chris Batista
Yeah, it was. They. They brought in some real equations there instead of just, you know, the. You had to release there and absorb it. And I really liked that. It's like, it was like, I just remember just the excitement of another and another issue.
39:29
Jmike Folson
They actually made you care about Monster Girl too.
39:33
Chris Batista
Yeah. Well, that was another one that I started to like her next, you know, she bones exploded and I was like, dude, he literally just like, you know, he said talk to the hand and she was gone. It was like, oh, and you got that shot of Cam here. It's coming out of his eyes and he's getting into that berserk mode or he's going to try to kill the jam. I was like, it was a really epic moment. And of course, don't forget that leads to a redefining of Saturn Girl's role in the Legion, where in that issue she does like Phoenix level type stuff.
40:09
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah. When she's holding mid bay.
40:10
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
40:10
Chris Batista
She has to hold the line against God. And none of it felt forced. It was like, hey, you love Saturn Girl. And there's a great line where in that. When they had a discussion about Jan when they were being imprisoned, even Wildfire, like she said, does anybody trust me because of what I did? And Wildfire says, Sprock, that you did what you had to do. I bet that. And she was like, thank you. You know, like, he was like, no problem. I was like, that's Wildfire for you. Like, you know, everyone was like, you know, you were aware because how important would it tell him be? Like, you know, you can kick her ass. You just punch her, you know. But they made her like this absolute last line of defense was like era level these gigantic energy waves and she's.
41:02
Chris Batista
The backgrounds are disintegrating and it was just like, damn, this is awesome. And that was Saturn Girl. And he hadn't had a moment like that with Saturn Girl in ages. In fact, I remember in the old Legion, I don't know how, why they took it out, but it's like this mysterious thing that went away. And Legionnaire's standard gear used to be telepathic earplugs. Does anyone remember that?
41:21
Jmike Folson
Really?
41:22
Case Aiken
Yeah. Well, they have them in this.
41:23
Chris Batista
Well, they were they took them out, they were no longer an equation. And they had Saturn Girl be the brick. And I always thought that was just like.
41:29
Case Aiken
Yeah. One thing I like about this era was the idea that everyone's really uncomfortable about Titanians who are all innately telepathic. Saturn Girl mentions it at one point that the. They wear the set. The Saturn symbol because that is a warning to everyone around them that they're telepaths. Which I think they. I think there was something like that in Babylon 5 too. Just the idea that, like. Yeah, if they're psychics, like, just watch your thoughts.
41:52
Jmike Folson
Like.
41:53
Chris Batista
Yeah, it would be good to know, you know, like, you know, it's like. Yeah, I did think. Yeah, I do remember that there was like that inner monologue or an issue where they talk about how that symbol, what it. What it really does mean.
42:05
Case Aiken
Yeah. And there is a stigma like that. It does kind of feel like an oppressive thing for the people who are telepathic. You know, it's a hard balance right there. And obviously they don't have to wear it on their own world, but it's only when they're off world that, like, they have to be like, just. Just so you guys know. Yeah, telepath. Telepath. Yep, telepath. But that does something to people's psyches. And like, Saturn Girl is really feeling it. Like when she is spiraling after her deception is revealed, you know, she did a fucked up thing, but she's also like, feel. Feels really bad about it.
42:35
Chris Batista
Well, they also explained that she didn't really have a choice. It was like everything was the. Was hitting the fan, like, and then it was too late. And all the dependency that Joe had that if he didn't have her, he was gonna fall apart. And nobody. They just couldn't afford for anybody to fall apart. And so it wasn't just like this cruel decision. It was actually something that she was forced to keep doing.
42:59
Case Aiken
Oh, yeah. It's like once you tell a lie and you have to keep telling lies to maintain the lie, because if the lie gets revealed, and now every lie you've told makes it worse if it ever does get revealed.
43:08
Chris Batista
So it wasn't done out of like this kind of like malicious decision. It was. It was like everything was going badly all at once, and they needed something to stop the bleeding. And then all of a sudden it was like, well, if I remove this bandage, you know, this band aid, this guy's still barely holding on, you know, and if I take that away, and I thought that Was a great touch.
43:31
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
43:31
Chris Batista
And it was something that they dealt with later. Those connections stayed. In fact, I remember I wanted to do something subtle. I told my editor, I said, wouldn't it be cool that we. When we show scenes of, like, the Legion at their. At rest or maybe in their cafes and stuff like that, where they'd be, you know, with all sorts of people? But I wanted to do this subtle little thing where the guys who were in Legion lost habitually, kind of stay with each other. I wanted it like, I wanted. I was hoping that we didn't get around to doing it because, like I said, we're all taken off the book. But I wanted that, like, really, like, smart fans or just observant fans to notice. Hey, wasn't that these guys always in a group together because they were a unit?
44:16
Case Aiken
It's, you know, it's like the military vets kind of situation.
44:19
Chris Batista
You know, it's like they were. It's like soldiers in war. Then even closer and hoping that, like, an astute reader would catch that. Liam made me like, that version of. Was it Umbra? Yeah, Umbra. I want to say shadow last, but Umbra was actually they redefined. There's in a way that were awesome. I remember that issue where she's fighting the big Superman alien.
44:43
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah. She has, like, concentrated darkness as a way of punching a person, basically.
44:48
Chris Batista
Yeah, she. She's a badass. I was like, whoa. Because in the original version of so Shadow Me, Shadowless. She makes things dark.
44:56
Jmike Folson
That's it.
44:57
Chris Batista
You know, and like, the Abbott and Lanning made her into, like, this scary, like, shadowcaster. And I was like, yo. Well, and also having, like, a bit of, like, a personality to match it. I was like, that. That's really cool. Instead of just the usual utter, you know, I'm just. I'm like everyone else. I just have blue skin, you know, but here, they made her more distinctive and. And out. And yeah, I mean, I was really thrilled to work with those guys because we really did have some huge plans coming up. Like, there's some stuff that we wanted to do that, like I said the return of Jan, which would also mean. Potential return would be omnipotence. That was also something that was not going to go. So why would, like, there would be the potential return of that, like.
45:55
Chris Batista
So I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. You know, so, yeah, they had a lot. At one point, in fact, I remember they had plans to make the Legion character, which would have been real hard on the Artist. But think about it. They're called the Legion. You know, they would be like, why would there be a limit to the members that they could. They're not the Avengers, you know. Yeah, you know, they. They. These guys protect everybody. Like, everybody. That's the bigger responsibility. And that's the one things I loved about the way Abbott Lanning wrote them is that while there were. Yes. Young teenagers, you know, the. The way they handle things were like the way the JLA would approach a problem. They didn't mess around, you know, like, they. There was a line what they did in.
46:47
Chris Batista
Because Jeff Johns wrote it was when they got rid of this legion to go into the Mark Wade Legion. And Superboy had there. And he was a member of the Titans at the time, and he reunited with the Teen Titans. And he's like, you seem different, Connor. He's like, yeah, been with the Legion. Legion's not what you think, man. They're. They're like pros. They're like Justice League. And I was like, that's right. I was like, that's right. They're not the Teen Titans. They. Their responsibilities are.
47:18
Case Aiken
Yeah, they are. They are the upgrade of the future. Like, they are the superheroes a thousand years in the future. The front line of superheroes. It's going to be a bit bigger when you're a thousand years in the future.
47:28
Chris Batista
Yeah, they were jla. They were, like, of that kind of ilk. They weren't considered the Young Titan whenever they talk about doing crossovers with them of the Titans. But I'm sorry, it should have been la. They were on their level, you know, in fact, I would say more so because they would have the advantages of tech from a thousand years from now, you know, and Brainiac 5. Oh, by the way, we haven't talked about Brainiac 5.
47:57
Case Aiken
Yeah, let's talk about Brainiac 5.1.
48:00
Jmike Folson
So remind me how those upgrades go.
48:02
Case Aiken
All right, so this. This Brainiac 5 is a Kaluin who in. In a story arc prior to this, had cybernetic implants that added some actual computer features to his brain. And someone made a joke that, oh, it's more. You're, like, upgraded. You're like Brainiac 5.1. And he laughs and is like, that's hilarious. And then they just use it. But everyone thought that this was a terrible name upgrade. And so this is the book that killed that. Fortunately, you know, but they didn't just do it right off the bat. They, like, let it get to his perspective issue where he can be like, God, I hate that nickname. And everyone's like, all right, yeah, we'll stop. Because it's so awkward to say. Like, no one wanted to say it out loud. We just thought you found it was funny.
48:41
Chris Batista
Yeah.
48:42
Case Aiken
And that.
48:42
Jmike Folson
That was.
48:43
Case Aiken
That was it. That was. That was just them wiping off what was, like, a bad part of the previous arc that came before it. It was like, thank God, because, like, the upgrades work fine, but, like, fuck, man, he's already. Brainiac 5.
48:53
Chris Batista
There was a great issue in Legion Lost, one of a great brainy moment where he's talking to Saturn Girl and she's basically doing a mission log, checking up on everybody and stuff like that. And this is after they found out that she had been. Was that she went to check with Brainiac's progress on whatever device he was building to help there were. And basically, he's like saying, I telling you about stuff I'm doing, but no resources here. I'm just trying to do what I can. And she said, ariane, you're doing exactly what you need to do. It was like this moment where she was appreciating the fact that he was maintaining the illusion he was making progress on getting them home. Didn't want to kill morale. And she was like, carry on. And it was a boring moment.
49:45
Chris Batista
It was a very leadership, you know, adult moment. And I was like, oh, that's really cool. But I also like seeing Rainey be a little infallible, meaning, like, a little vulnerable.
49:55
Case Aiken
Yeah.
49:56
Chris Batista
It's not his thing, you know, and to see him look a little lost, and for her to say, you know, this is what you're supposed to be doing.
50:04
Case Aiken
And it's great because this is after his viewpoint issue where we actually got to see how he was strategizing and trying to work on everything.
50:10
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
50:10
Case Aiken
And earlier on, it felt like. Like all of those problems felt solvable. Maybe difficult to do all of them at once, but they felt solvable for him and that he was working at it. Like he came up with an impossible hyperdrive. But by the time we get to Saturn Girl's betrayal, he's out of resources and ideas. You know, like, it's just a subtle way to remind you that the stakes are getting more and more dire with every issue here.
50:36
Chris Batista
Yeah, I did like that. Like, you know, it was like, you know, the little things that they were doing, and then there were, like, the little things that I loved. There was a moment with Garth when you realized. Well, it's not when you realize, but, like, that he had been the one that had upgraded their farming capacity aboard their ship, like, they were growing food and stuff like that. Because he came from a farm world.
51:01
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
51:01
Chris Batista
You know, it's like. And I thought it was a nice little touch that he was the one in charge of the oxygen levels and stuff like that. And, like, it was just like, that's right. He is a farmer. You know, he came from the fucking farming world. And it's like they did little things that really paid attention to who the characters really were. And you realize, well, yeah, no one had ever done that with Garth. He actually is a farmer. So he would actually be the guy that would take whatever needs they have and turn them into actual resources, you know, and their oxygen levels and stuff that would feed the plants and stuff. And, like, I remember he was telling Imran this Saturn Girl, and she was just kind of like, oh. Huh. Because she was.
51:42
Chris Batista
Was helping Ultra boy with him, you know, maintaining the Phantom Girl image and stuff like that. She had been doing so many other things at the same time. And I remember reading that scene the first time is that she seemed kind of cold. This is your fiance. You can at least say, good job. And then you realize, you know, like, that's messed up. And then. But. And it was just, you know. And I remember thinking through the rest of the issue was that Garth was gonna. Is really gonna bother Garth, and he's gonna, you know, resent this because he's, you know, he's a young man and stuff like that. But it turned out he actually, like, manned the hell up and was like the guy who started using orders and coming up with the plans. And I was like, yeah, awesome.
52:23
Chris Batista
They thought he was gonna whine out here, but he turned out to just. He nutted up. Came up badass.
52:29
Jmike Folson
Yeah, you guys are right. The more I think about it in certain scenes.
52:32
Chris Batista
Sorry.
52:34
Jmike Folson
The more I think about going over her responses in certain scenes, you're like, wow, she was really out of it. Then you're like, wait a second. Oh, now it makes more sense.
52:43
Case Aiken
Yeah.
52:44
Chris Batista
Actually worth a reread because you catch things. It's like when you watch the Matrix the second time and you're catching all the little notes that were there in the first place, you're like, did not catch that. Not that great. You know, I love when you can revisit something and it gives you a reason to actually walk. Like, it just makes you look at things completely differently. Oh, shit. When you see a movie and you catch something new each time, it really.
53:09
Case Aiken
Is like one of the strong works, you know? Like, I think that there. There's a reason I picked this story arc specifically for us to read as a representation of the potential of the reboot era of Legion of Superheroes. You know, I. I think it's just such a strong entry by a. By a really influential team. Like, we haven't really talked about the. The Dan Abbott andy Lanning team yet, but, like, these are the guys who made the Guardians of the Galaxy like that we know because back during the Annihilation stuff. And like, Keith Given started that whole thing with the. The first Annihilation story. But Annihilation Conquest, the one where the Guardians of the Galaxy are formed in the first place, that was an abnormal landing joint.
53:48
Case Aiken
And then they wrote that series and they also wrote the Nova series that was running parallel to it. You know, like, they're super influential on the comics that are now a big part of the mcu. And this is an earlier era. And I find it kind of ironic that looking at this book, looking at the Legion versus where the, like the. The Guardians now are actually starting to feel pretty Legion esque with the Al Ewing run at the moment, it, like, it's becoming a very big team and you can see where that was going back during the Abnormal era. But looking at this book, it's like you took the Legion of Superheroes and turned them into like the old school Guardians of the Galaxy, you know, like that.
54:26
Case Aiken
That team was a group of like, aliens and a human trapped in a world that the Badoon have overrun in the far future. And they're the last survivors and they're on their own in a ship, just trying to like, make it in this, like, crazy world of hostile aliens like that. Those are good stakes to set up. And like, it's kind of funny that they're so well known for changing. Changing a property dramatically into a more modern space superhero team, while at the same time taking a future space superhero team and making it feel kind of like that Marvel one.
54:56
Chris Batista
Yeah, it makes me sad that they're no longer a duo. They're.
55:00
Jmike Folson
They.
55:00
Chris Batista
They had a falling out. I'm not sure what it's about, but I'm friends with both. I'm tighter with Andy. But yeah, it made me very sad because I loved working with the Paraput. They were a wonderful pair to work with.
55:12
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's such a bummer because they seem like such a creative collaborative duo.
55:15
Chris Batista
They were, they were. They were just. They were on fire, you know, and loved everything that they did. Even going back to Knights of the Dragon, you know, these guys were great. And you Know, and you brought up Guardians and you know, I remember when people read the movie, watch a movie, and they weren't familiar with the comic, the assumption was that, wow, they got this all from the Bendis stuff. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. You know, it's like Osmo, all those little touches, you know, the floating celestial head. I mean, that's all Dan andy.
55:50
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
55:50
Chris Batista
And they don't really get any credit for it. Is a little infuriated. Yeah.
55:54
Case Aiken
It's such a bummer. Like the revival of Star Lord as a viable is them.
55:59
Chris Batista
Yeah. In fact, I do remember that. I know the movie Star Lord is a lot of fun and stuff like that, but I actually prefer the Dan and Abdin one. I mean, Abdin Lenny one because he was far more badass. You know, he had a quick wit and stuff like that, but he was definitely the last guy you ever wanted to mess with was Peter Quill in their book. Like, he always was like, you know. But credit to Chris, you know, to make him such a fun, approachable character because it was a huge part of the movie's success. I do remember that I did prefer the far more calculating, a lot more dangerous, and he could smile while he was doing it. But when you went down against Peter Quill, you were in trouble.
56:40
Case Aiken
Yeah. That's why it's been tough in books since then to reconcile just how popular the Chris Pratt version of Star Lord has been with what he's been to Marvel Comics. In the Annihilation Wave, he's basically the Hand of the King and a full on cyborg. And yes, having to move him towards being something else was a really interesting sequence. And like, you know him as the leader putting together the Guardians. Like a funny thing. When they made the Guardians of the Galaxy movie, they took away all the heavy hitters from the team. I mean, Gamora's still like a pretty heavy hitter, but like, they didn't have Quasar and they didn't have Warlock. Like, they, this was a team that could go several rounds against some really powerful foes.
57:21
Case Aiken
And they made it a little bit more misfit y and a little bit more ragtag and, you know, played up the comedy and the comedy's good. I, I like the Guardians of the Galaxy movies a lot. They're some of the best of the mcu, but they are a bit exaggerated from where the comics were before that. You know, Gamora is such a badass and Peter Quill is such a badass and Drax is such a bad. You know, they're all just badasses.
57:41
Chris Batista
Yeah, they're. They're all very dangerous. Even Rocket. You know, actually, the one they got right was. I'd say comic book accurate was definitely Rocket.
57:49
Case Aiken
Yeah, Rockets.
57:50
Chris Batista
Rocket's really solid, you know, like, dead on like that. That's. Yeah, that's very much. He's always. Yeah, he always had, like, a sarcastic comment and he was a badass.
58:01
Case Aiken
Yeah, I. I like Gamora in it, but I have always felt that Karen Gillen as Nebula actually is more close to a comics version of Gamora than.
58:12
Chris Batista
Yeah, I think so, too. Yeah.
58:13
Case Aiken
Zoe Saldana's Gamora. It's. It's really weird.
58:15
Chris Batista
Yeah, she's fine. But it was. It's like, not a slam dunk to me.
58:18
Case Aiken
You know, I mean, like, look, is anyone going to be Chris Evans as Captain America? It's gonna, like. It's hard to get that level of perfect casting. It's hard to get Downey Jr. As Tony Stark. Like, the. You know, there's just some. Some just like perfect grand slams that even a home run looks like. It's like, oh, you only got a home run. I had a grand slam. Like, that's when.
58:36
Chris Batista
When Chris Evans. I mean, when Chris Hemsworth steps down, what are they gonna do? Last of the old. The guys that we believed.
58:44
Case Aiken
I don't know.
58:44
Chris Batista
It's a.
58:44
Case Aiken
It's a good question. But. But, you know, like, let's. We don't need to go too deep into actor selections for a franchise that is even related to this.
58:51
Chris Batista
Yes.
58:52
Case Aiken
So suffice it to say, the legacy of the Guardians of the Galaxy as a huge property does tie back to this book in its own way. Because this is an era where Abdin and Lanning became known as, like, the space guys and were allowed to do these huge space stories. And that's why we got, you know, why we got Annihilation Conquest, which they wrote and featured an amazing story that tied in a lot of space shit that people just never had put together before in, like, some very literal ways. It was really interesting that spun off into Guardians. Like, you know, this book is where we're starting to see that big. That big break for them. And it stands up and holds up on its own.
59:27
Case Aiken
Like, if you don't know the Legion of Superheroes, this book is such a good introduction to the team. You know, we have a new A Fish out of Water joining them who's familiar with the area, but doesn't know their stuff, you know, they have to explain themselves. We get, you know, looks into all of their psyche. It's such a good step there. You know, we get to see the reverence for the other members, but we don't have to deal with some of that extra. And the story is a big, trippy story with a big bad evil guy that at the end of it all you're like, yeah, Yep, that's. This is going to be a tough. This is a tough last session of this DND campaign, guys. This is a real tough last session. Oh, God. Is that a Tarasque?
01:00:02
Case Aiken
Oh, my God, it's a Tarasque.
01:00:04
Chris Batista
I do remember one of the things that was the best thing about it was the last issue way it emotionally punches you in the face, you know, like, because it, you know, Garth goes out and sacrifices himself and the issue ends, you know, and you're like, what the fuck? And, you know, and then like, you know, he has his monologue where he goes, you know, we had each other. I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was like how were never lost all along, you know, and it was a really well written monologue. And I was like, damn. And then they went into Legion World.
01:00:46
Case Aiken
For Red Vision Worlds I did back in the day. I haven't reread it since, but I particularly remember, like, the. This is the story where we have like Mon El squaring off against what is supposed to be Ra's al Ghul.
01:00:58
Chris Batista
Oh, no, that was in the series. The first time you first issue with Monel was when he went up against the beginnings of Robotica. That was in. That was in. They didn't introduce racial ghoul until they actually got their series.
01:01:11
Case Aiken
Oh, you're right, I'm getting those mixed up. Yeah, because it was. I remember it was both Mon El centric.
01:01:15
Chris Batista
Then Legion World came out immediately after that, which was followed by the Allegiance series. You know, they were doing really great world building all within those six issues. There were some reread them. I would highly recommend them. They're fantastic. The way they make each world stand out on its own. Like, they give it a cultural identity, they give it a real personality to each one. In fact, when you finally get to the last issue, which was once again going into the whole spiel about being a Legion purist, they brought in Timberwolf, who is just about my favorite legionnaire, and he's one of the characters they rebooted so many times. They screwed up him so many times. They Did a fantastic version. They took all three versions of Timberwolf that existed at that point and made them into one version. Furball.
01:02:06
Chris Batista
There was the one with the long mane, and then there was the standard Timberwolf. And they put them all into one form and it worked. And they made him a gang bang. And it was awesome. It was one of my favorites. And then it was on Ultra Boy's homeworld. And that got a really great Ori as well. And it was also drawn by Plunkett, who is just insanely good.
01:02:31
Case Aiken
Yeah, this was a good era of Legion.
01:02:34
Chris Batista
Oh, I loved, Like, Dude, I was so happy to be on that team, you know, in fact, they said they're wondering how long I would stick around on the book. And I'm like, I'm gonna stay as long as you guys. And which is sad, because they wanted to stay. They had at least a good three, four years, or at least they were going to bring back the blight. Do case. Remember the blight?
01:02:54
Case Aiken
Yeah, well, yeah, well, they talk about it a lot in this book.
01:02:56
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
01:02:57
Chris Batista
The blight was supposed to come back and you're supposed to find out that it were an offshoot from Poison Ivy.
01:03:03
Case Aiken
Oh, shit.
01:03:05
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
01:03:05
Chris Batista
I'm not sure. They didn't. I can't remember how, but it was a conversation I had with them that they were going to bring back the, like, their. Their tech and everything was very plant kind of based like that.
01:03:16
Case Aiken
Yeah.
01:03:17
Chris Batista
So I'm not sure how they would have done it. It's the very implication of it makes me happy. And there was supposed to be far more going on with Rachel Ghoul. He was going to be like Hannibal Lecter at the center of Legion World. Like, he was going to be doing far more damage just being in a jail cell outside of it. And I. I got to do little things. Like, I grew in Polar Boy and Ken Shakespeare as Legion recruit. Like, I was supposed to make up like 20 legion recruits. And can I throw in older Boy and Ken Shakespeare? And they're like, yeah. So I was. I was like, there's. There's one. There's like one issue. It was a 25th anniversary or something like that.
01:03:55
Chris Batista
Super boys on the COVID And yeah, they gave me like all these names, like Retro Amp Girl and stuff like that. And I threw in a rocket raccoon and this robot named Babbage who was from Robotica. Like, these are going to be like the next recruits. But yeah, I insisted. I'm like, I gotta throw in Ken Shakespeare. Gotta throw in Polar Boy Ant Will Love it. Very happy to see. And my editor, who was an old school agent fan, actually agreed. And so, yeah, we had really big things planned. And it makes you very sad that when the word came down that were off the book, and originally they were supposed to be given 5 issue try to close out, and then at last minute, they were told it has two issues. They didn't have a choice.
01:04:43
Chris Batista
It's like they literally had five years of storylines to wrap up and two issues, and they still couldn't cover even, like, half of them. So it just made me sad because Britt decided to reboot the book. I get it, you know, I understand it, but the sad part was that we actually got the sales up. Our sales were higher than not saying were like one of their top sellers. We were consistent. We kept it up. And we. We had Super Boy in there, and were gonna tell the Titans guy, use Superboy, because our version of Superboy is lost in time. We could literally pluck him from any point, put him right back at a panel later, because it's time travel. So please use your Superboy.
01:05:25
Chris Batista
The Titans guys were always annoyed that we had Boy, and I never understood that because I thought it would have been really cool because things in the future and in the past in the old classic stories. So, yeah, you know how it is in comics. Sometimes they don't make.
01:05:38
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's a. It's a bummer to think about, but it's not a bummer to think about this book because this has been a delight. I'm glad that we settled on rereading this one and not cutting our. Our coverage short. Even though this isn't really, like a Superman Superboy centric book. You know, the closest we really get is Ultra Boy, probably if you're, like, looking for, like a Superman archetype in this, but it's the Legion. Like, the Legion is an offshoot of Superboy. Like, this is one of the best Legion stories. So, Chris, I'm really glad that you were able to come on finally, because, you know, like I said, I'm. I'm sorry. We. I didn't. I didn't force you to do this before.
01:06:14
Chris Batista
Oh, this was the right subject, you know, and you definitely want people talking about it where it comes from the heart and they have a real message behind it. So when you said Legion lost, I'm like, I love that. That actually was the one. When I was reading every issue of Legion Loss, I was super jealous. I was jealous because a. I loved Abnut and Lighting B, love the Legion. C, this was the Legion that I had been wanting to read for a time long, and now someone else is trying to get. Olivier was growing like a monster on every issue. Like, from every issue to every issue brought, like a sexiness in there. But he also brought, like, a real style to Legion that they hadn't had.
01:06:54
Chris Batista
It was like they were up there, visually speaking, the X Men, like, this is the Legion. I'm messing around with these. And when I took over the book, I was terrified because I was such a fan of. Of his book. You know, like, he really inspired me. But then after I started drawing my first issue, I just relaxed because I was like, hey, you know, I just do my own thing and, you know, look at his stuff as a standard to maintain. And it's going every issue, my ass, every month. Because it's like 22 plus characters that doesn't even include the bad guy. Everything else you have that makes the Legion work. But Bamboo, I was in there, I was doing it, you know, and comics is hard work. Yeah, you can't really, you know, scramble them eggs too much, particularly with Legion.
01:07:47
Chris Batista
Some books, you can't. You know, you were gonna do Legion the Next Generation, and, you know, I actually think that would have a better thing for some people. If you're gonna do a reboot, like, 100 years from now kind of thing. But now we're really not stepping on anyone else's toys, toes, and you can flex your own ideas. I remember reading the abandoned issue, and I was like, the Earth was like, pieces and stuff, and I. That kind of. I hope you resolved it later. But to me, that's kind of like saying that the heroes of the past had lost, that they got really messed up, which means we screwed up, you know, and you can't have that. That's not a good way to get that optimistic Legion element. And then I heard they also changed radically. Monel, one of my other favorite legionnaires.
01:08:29
Chris Batista
You don't mess with mono.
01:08:31
Case Aiken
Yeah, it's weird now. I. I haven't read enough of it to, like, comment too much, but like, it. Yeah, he's like a great descendant of Superboy, Specifically Jonathan Kent, which is like, that's. That's a different relationship right there. I. I miss the. Mono's so good, man. Like, the super Captain America, Big Brother character is so good.
01:08:53
Chris Batista
Yes. No, it's really great. And what's funny, though, because I remember when they brought in Conner Kent into the Legion, you know, I thought, well, that was an elegant solution because you can't do the Clark Kent one because of, you know, you would have to undo all of the John Byrne stuff. Like, you know, sometimes you have the chaos of decisions that affect a lot of comments. Really good idea come out of that. And that was one of them. I was like, he should be in the Legion. A good idea because it's still very much connected. Well, you know, and.
01:09:22
Case Aiken
Well, and he'd already been established as a member at that point in the Superboy book, he had joined the team, but he was an honorary member living in the 20th century. So it was all it was establishing that, like, okay, we're now going to do some adventures with him after having him like briefly connect. Just, you know, just originally to be a nod and wink because that's what that book was doing a lot of, kind of in the same way that I do remember Legion was doing when.
01:09:47
Chris Batista
He came up, as, you know, he was going to be joining the team. I remember that. I was like, guys, you have to put him in his Superman costume. I said, every single Legion fan will go through the roof. The editor was already on that and the Abnet and Landing were definitely on it. So were all like unified. Like, be in that suit and we'll put the Legion belt ball there. We're not going to mess with the suit. And sure enough, when we did that, not a single fan, not, no fans bitched. Everybody was very. Sometimes you gotta give fans what they want. You know, you can break shit. Also gotta give shit back. You know, you gotta say, all right, we did this. Hey, isn't this really cool? Isn't this really cool? You know, you don't have to force feed people stuff.
01:10:31
Chris Batista
You know, you can do really cool things. And you know, the shame of it was, is that before were gone, I was pitching ideas. I was supposed to do a two issue fill in as a writer and artist. My editor, I loved it. He was like, I'd love if you can get it in one issue, but if it has to be two issues, I understand. And I had this idea of a Ocean's Eleven type storyline taking place on Legion world where I would take classic Legion characters and turn them into the futuristic version of the Secret six. It was going to be. Devim was one of them. Oh, who else was it? It was Mantala. I was taking some key Legion characters that were all really, like, loved.
01:11:09
Chris Batista
And they were going to be like this story where at the end they were going to be the Legion who handle the superheroic stuff but who handles the black bag ops? Who handles the dirty work? Handles the stuff that secret agent types. Well they were going to be the new version of Secret 6 and according to old Legion stories Devm was a secret agent and I wanted to take advantage of that and I think oh yeah, outside Duplicate Boy. Really old school characters but really cool. Yeah, we had stories. I wanted to bring back Colossal Boy, I wanted to reintroduce Sunboy and I wanted to do Sunboy as not a human torch knock off. He was gonna be like a living which would be very dangerous and like ramifications of dealing with power level. Just makes me sad, man.
01:11:58
Chris Batista
I guess I'll have to put them in my own book.
01:12:01
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean it's sad to think what could have been but I mean like we got good stories out of it. It would have been nice to get more, you know, it'd be nice Abnett and landing, we're still working together and I don't know their business so I'm not going to go too far on that one. But you know they wrote some great stuff.
01:12:16
Chris Batista
Yeah, that's the way I haven't taken aside. They're both my friends, you know I, I, it'd be nice if it happened again but oh well, they did write.
01:12:24
Case Aiken
Some beautiful but J Mike, so the before we wrap up, do you have any final thoughts on this arc? Because like I said, I was really pumped to reread this one. I was really. This was my era of Legion, but I loved it.
01:12:36
Jmike Folson
I wish I'd like read this like when it was coming out because I would have been like the edge of my seat like what happens next? I need more. Wait, this one, this one's really good.
01:12:46
Chris Batista
Did you read the series that they did after that came out of Legion Worlds?
01:12:51
Jmike Folson
Like this is like.
01:12:51
Case Aiken
No, this is his crash course.
01:12:54
Chris Batista
Okay, well then. Well here's the thing. Based on what you just said, you love Legion worlds. I mean you read Legion Worlds and you read Legion Lost. You should absolutely read the up till when evidently left that book. Incredible. It is such a good book. The twist that they throw in their Legion run is so badass. Like they do intergalactic type shit and they bring it. They do stuff with other characters, the other legionnaires that just I, I'm telling you, just your enthusiasm. Yeah, I'm hearing it. I'm like read the Legion book. It's just called the Legion. Highly recommended. And Koipel, that's when he became a Superstar on that book. Like, you can just see it. There's like stuff in there you can't believe. It's a Legion issue.
01:13:39
Chris Batista
This is a guy that would have been like in Lee level X Men and kicking Jim Lee's butt.
01:13:46
Case Aiken
Well, I just checked. It is available on DC Infinite right now, so it's not an investment if you're already subscribing to that service. Like, you can just check out those books, dude.
01:13:55
Chris Batista
Highly recommended. Like, if you love Legion, Lost is more of the same, you know, and now that you. Oh, now the best thing about it is that they do a good job bringing you along if you're not an old school Legion fan. So it's not like they throw in too many things that you wouldn't be familiar with. They do a good job of bringing you up to speed.
01:14:11
Jmike Folson
That's. So with the Dark side Saga, like, I felt. A lot of times I felt out of place because I felt like there was things that I was missing. Mind you, I made a mistake when Case said were reading the Dark side Saga or the Dark. Great Darkness Saga. Same thing. But we. I went on Comixology and I got the entire trade back for everything. It was like 400 pages.
01:14:39
Chris Batista
Yeah, I know that one. That's a big one.
01:14:41
Jmike Folson
Yeah.
01:14:42
Case Aiken
Yeah. He read quite a few issues and.
01:14:46
Chris Batista
Those issues are confusing because you have to know your history to really appreciate the great Dark Saga. It's cool from the outside, but the actual nuance is lost because you're not going to know who the heck these characters are.
01:14:58
Jmike Folson
Yeah. So I was very lost while I was reading it and I was trying to, like, figure out what was going on in my head. But I'm like, I don't understand a lot, but I get the main gist of it. This one you, I could tell was going on the entire time and it was awesome. So if I can. If I can, if this is what the Legion stuff is really is, I love it.
01:15:16
Chris Batista
Oh, yeah. It's just like that. The Legion book does follow that kind of flow. You're not going to be rambling. And you are familiar with these. This, that at least that those members from Legion Lost do have a big. They do get a lot of the screen time in the new Legion book because those are the ones that you were on for the ride for. So it brings in the other members of the Legion, but it still heavily focuses on them, especially in the beginning. And by issue six, they pull such a twist. Classic villain that you don't see coming out of nowhere. And you literally. Your jaw drops and you're like, that is cool. Like, that is so. Oh, no. We do Dark side later, right?
01:15:54
Case Aiken
No, they had to build up to it. But. But yeah, the Legion picks up directly from the. The last issue of Legion Loss. Like Legion Worlds showed stuff that was going on simultaneously. But then the Legion, like, literally the first page is like them, like making it through the Rift.
01:16:08
Chris Batista
And also Legion Lost. They weren't just standalone stories. They actually do set up stuff that does lead into the Legion book. And all of it pays off. There's like no plot thread that they didn't throw out there that doesn't come back. Like, they really, These guys cast a really wide net. It's real. It breaks my heart that I can't work with them anymore. I love working with them. We're the best. Particularly on Legion. I, you know, I don't. I love Mark Wade, but I still think that he's got. Regardless of me having been a part of it. And they brought in this sci fi edge to it as well. And that's what really makes them work. Like they say cosmic books, but they definitely are far more sci fi than cosmic.
01:16:53
Chris Batista
When I think of cosmic books, a lot of that is like the Jim Starlin stuff in the 70s, which is a lot of fun. What Abnet and Lanning did was they always brought in. They were always like reading current sci fi and stuff like that. They were always trying to bring in those ideas. Like when you said that thing about the Shikari's people reminded you of Fremen, I was like, that's really cool because it was very inspired by them. But that's awesome. You know, they brought in that kind of detail. So, yeah, it does make me sad that, you know, we kind of lost that. And it is sad that the, you know, it's like I was sad that were all taken off the book.
01:17:32
Chris Batista
It was going to be like, you know, I was taken off the book because they brought in some superstar artists more acceptable. I think that what happened to them was not fair. They were delivering all the time and they made the book exciting.
01:17:44
Case Aiken
Well, Chris, thank you for joining us for this discussion.
01:17:48
Chris Batista
It was my pleasure.
01:17:49
Case Aiken
So we are probably going to call this as the end of our current discussion of the Legion of Superheroes. I think this is a really standout book. If, if you've listened to this episode and you haven't read it again, I'm never quite clear what who our audience is, but. But if you have, I would say I would Say, go check it out. We spoiled stuff. But you know what? I knew most of these twists going into it because I, I read it not right when it came out. I read like, I read a description of it in Wizard. I'd missed the issues and then I collected it, but I had already heard what the twist was before I'd actually got a chance to read the whole thing. So I wouldn't say it's ruined. I think it really holds up today.
01:18:29
Case Aiken
I think it's a really great American comic. If you're looking for that kind of classic update of these like Silver Age concepts in a more modern setting. Aside from the fact that they keep using the same Photoshop background for the Starfield, which was really bothersome on my tablet. Like, I was like, oh, that's not meant for this resolution. Like, I think it's a very moder. I think there's nothing about it that feels dated, even though it's 20 years old now. I think it's a wonderful book that you should check out. We will probably come back for more Legion stuff at a later time, but we've got stuff in the can that has been burning a hole in our editor's pocket, so I want to get those out.
01:19:12
Case Aiken
So next time we are going to be talking about, well, we're going to be doing a two part special that's been teased a lot on other people's podcasts because our guests recorded forever ago. We're going to be talking about Miracle man and then we're going to be talking about Miracle Man. So we're going to be talking about the Alan Moore Miracle man run with Alex Leavelle. And then we are going to be talking about the Neil Gaiman run with Angela Bones Bullock and Janie Martin of Fables and Reflections. So, you know, a totally different kind of book, but also a shockingly still modern feeling kind of story. And I'm looking forward to everyone hearing those episodes. But in the meantime, Chris, where can people find you? What are you working on?
01:19:48
Case Aiken
You know, give all your plugs like thank you so much for coming on again. You designed our logo but you're doing stuff outside of that. So plug, plug your stuff.
01:19:58
Chris Batista
Oh, well, you know, the latest thing was it's something called the Outer Spaceman, which was this toy that was from the 70s, these bendy toys and just running a Kickstarter. It's only a couple of days left, but it's Baby Inicieza wrote this part of a 16 page introduction to them. He wrote really cool alien toys from the 60s, real audience to them. And a book that I did a while back, which is coming out now, which was with John Leguizamo, called Phenomics. It's about a conda getting superpowers with a Latin twist. And I'm also developing my own ideas. And kids and I have our own one we hope to do someday ourselves.
01:20:43
Case Aiken
Yeah, whenever I finish that script,.
01:20:47
Jmike Folson
I.
01:20:47
Case Aiken
Wasn't sure if were in make that one up. But yeah, whenever I finish that script.
01:20:51
Chris Batista
So, yeah, that's going on. And I'm also, you know, looking for work because I'm a star, so I'm always looking. But.
01:20:57
Case Aiken
But yeah, thank you again for coming on. Everyone should, you know, just follow your work like you're an amazing artist. You worked on some crazy properties. I. Every now and then I will like, dig up a comic from, like when you were just starting your career, but which is when I was like getting into comics. And I'll be like, oh, I served this guy so many drinks. And it's always kind of fun. Like when you were working on Steel, for example, or Spider Man 2099. Always, always fun little moments there. You've had a great career and I always love seeing you working on a project. So everyone should absolutely go check your stuff out. And then after that they should go over to certainpov.com where they can find more episodes of this show as well as so many other great shows.
01:21:44
Case Aiken
I'm going to give a plug to Screensnark right now. They are always a fun interview show. The most recent episode, as of us Recording, had a really cool video game developer and podcaster and it was just like, really fun seeing that, like, merging of perspectives right there. So that was a really fun episode. Check it out. They just do wonderful interviews and discussions. So that's a lot of fun. You can find it@CertainPow.com, you can find a link to our discord@CertainPov.com as well, where we often have these calls. You can come, just hang out. It's a great time. But if you don't want to do that specifically because, you know, Discord is. Can be a very active message board sometimes and maybe that's not your thing. Maybe you'd like some more anonymity. If that's the case, you can find me on Twitter A Sagan.
01:22:27
Case Aiken
You can find the podcast @menofsteel14 J. Mike, where can they find you?
01:22:31
Jmike Folson
They can find me on Twitter mike101. I don't mean I don't Post a lot, but I do try to respond as much as possible.
01:22:37
Case Aiken
And when you do, it's a wonderful moment because usually you actually have better comic time than I do.
01:22:42
Jmike Folson
So I try. I try.
01:22:45
Case Aiken
So check that out, Chris, do you have a Twitter you want to plug?
01:22:48
Chris Batista
You know, it's better to find me on Instagram and on Facebook. You know, Facebook, you can catch all my work and all my goofy shenanigans and just look me up as Chris Bautista. And on Instagram, my number is one second. I don't remember what the heck it is. It's Chris Bautista. 4495. Yes.
01:23:06
Case Aiken
Yeah, so check that out. Yeah, exactly. Your cosplay on there for Gatchimon is great. Or as I always think, first GeForce. But I know some people are battled.
01:23:16
Chris Batista
Acceptable. Acceptable.
01:23:18
Case Aiken
You know, just a beloved anime. And you have an amazing cosplay that you're doing on your Instagram right now. So check that out. Check out his art. Maybe someday it'll be depicting things that I wrote, but that requires me to actually stop and finish the script, which I'm terrible at doing. At least when I. Back in my theater days, the thing that got me to actually finish the script was actually scheduling the auditions, because that was like, oh, shit, I need to get this done. So that's that. That's life. But yeah, everyone check that out. Check out Legion lost. It's great. Check out our more of our stuff. But until then, stay super, man.
01:24:02
Chris Batista
Hey there, screenbeans. Have you heard about Screen Snark?
01:24:06
Case Aiken
Rachel, this is an ad break.
01:24:07
Chris Batista
They aren't screen beans until they listen to the show.
01:24:10
Case Aiken
Fine.
01:24:11
Chris Batista
Potential screen beans. You like movies and TV shows, right? I mean, who doesn't?
01:24:16
Case Aiken
Screensnark is a casual conversation about the movies and television shows that are shaping us as we live our everyday lives. That's right, Matt.
01:24:23
Chris Batista
We have a chat with at least two. One incredible guest every episode. Hailing from all walks, we've interviewed chefs, writers, costumers, musicians, yoga teachers, comedians, burlesque dancers, folks in the film and TV industry, and more. We'd be delighted for you to join us every other Monday on the certain POV podcast network or wherever you get your podcasts. Fresh and tasty off the presses.
01:24:45
Jmike Folson
What?
01:24:46
Case Aiken
That's.
01:24:47
Chris Batista
No, that's not. Can I call them screen beans now? Fine. Scream beans. So tune in and we'll see you.
01:24:59
Case Aiken
At the movies or on a couch somewhere.
01:25:03
Chris Batista
Cause you're a whole scream beans now.
01:25:11
Case Aiken
Certainpov.com.