Episode 147 - The Supergirl From Krypton with Alex and Amanda Ramsey

Supergirl crashes to Earth, and we’re ready to talk fashion, fights, and Fourth World politics.
Joined by Alex and Amanda from Night of the Batman, we revisit the iconic Superman/Batman arc “The Supergirl From Krypton” and its animated adaptation “Superman/Batman: Apocalypse”, but which version flies higher?

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Check out Alex and Amanda’s stuff:
SSYSK LINK: https://www.youtube.com/@SuperheroSYSK

FLASHBACKS FLASH REWATCH POD: youtube.com/@flashbacksflashrewatchpod?si=y_c_SHnI9bKwu-Qz

NIGHT OF THE BATMEN: open.spotify.com/show/1od04JzRbU9OrePOyVbeOx?si=qRzXtTAcSjWholUYhjLRpw

OUR CROSSOVER WITH MEN OF STEEL: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/night-of-the-batmen-podcast/id1663635355?i=1000674213822

REVIEWMORE GIRLS GILMORE GIRLS REWATCH POD: https://open.spotify.com/show/5zhmdEqCNHiBqptKLpMuD8?si=qdTx5-D4QNa6T0NGs5fKRw

TANGENTIAL EXCHANGE POD: https://youtube.com/@thetangentialexchange6469?si=w2V6sZ2meB6ANLqQ

Overview

• Case criticized the decompressed storytelling in the comic, contrasting it with the more engaging 'Many Happy Returns' Supergirl story from 2022.

• Discussion highlighted Michael Turner's art style, emphasizing the influence of early 2000s teenage fashion depicted in character designs.

• Hosts noted that the first issue could have been condensed significantly, criticizing its pacing and structure.

• Superman's omitted kryptonite quarantine subplot from the movie adaptation raised concerns about character depth.

• Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy received praise for reprising their iconic roles, while mixed reviews were given to Ed Asner and Andre Brauer's performances.

• A debate on Wonder Woman's training methods questioned the conflict resolution techniques used within the storyline.

• Criticism arose over the implausibility of Batman defeating a Doomsday clone in the action sequences, situating him against a powerful foe.

• The significance of Superman’s kryptonite ring was analyzed, noting its implications on comic book continuity.

• The final Darkseid battle was deemed as unnecessary padding, detracting from the story's overall quality.

• Overall assessment categorized the comic as "mid" quality, recommending it over the movie for improved pacing and dialogue.

Notes

️ Opening & Introduction (00:00 - 11:18)

• Podcast introduction and guest welcome from Night of the Batman podcast

• Discussion of second major Superman Batman story arc following their previous crossover episode on Public Enemies

• Case's initial criticism of the comic's decompressed storytelling, comparing it unfavorably to the earlier 'Many Happy Returns' Supergirl story that came out 1.5 years prior

• Analysis of Jeph Loeb's writing style and tendency to retell existing stories, with comparison to Long Halloween vs. Eye of the Beholder

Art Style & Character Design Discussion (06:02 - 22:24)

• Michael Turner's artwork analysis, particularly his portrayal of Supergirl and the male gaze perspective in character design

• Debate over teenage fashion authenticity in early 2000s, with specific mention of Degrassi character Manny's influence on style choices

• Case's personal reflection on aging out of the target demographic at 22-23 years old when the comic was released

• Discussion of Batman's visual design and 'toyetic' appeal of his various gear throughout the story

Story Structure & Pacing Analysis (15:32 - 33:23)

• Critique of first issue's extreme decompression - could have been condensed to 5 pages according to hosts

• Analysis of Superman's quarantine subplot from kryptonite exposure, which was omitted from the movie adaptation

• Discussion of Batman's characterization and his collection of various colored kryptonite

• Comparison of Supergirl's introduction sequence between comic and movie versions

Character Development & Voice Acting (33:23 - 44:32)

• Praise for Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy reprising their animated series roles in the movie

• Mixed reactions to Ed Asner as Granny Goodness and criticism of Andre Brauer's rushed Darkseid performance

• Analysis of Krypto's characterization as more aggressive than traditional versions

• Discussion of Superman's uncharacteristically irrational behavior throughout the story

️ Plot Development & Action Sequences (44:32 - 01:06:47)

• Wonder Woman and Amazons' training approach debate, including the problematic conflict resolution method

• Analysis of the Doomsday army sequence and its implausibility - criticism of Batman defeating a Doomsday clone

• Discussion of Big Barda's introduction and her height representation differences between comic and movie

• Trinity argument analysis, particularly Superman's inappropriate Jason Todd/Donna Troy comment

Apocalypse Arc & Final Battle (01:06:48 - 01:18:02)

• Female Furies fight sequence comparison between mediums

• Batman's confrontation with Darkseid using hellspore threat as leverage

• Analysis of Superman's kryptonite ring usage and its comic book continuity

• Critique of final Darkseid battle as unnecessary padding for story length

• Discussion of ending differences between comic (heroic sacrifice) vs. movie (extended fight)

Final Analysis & Recommendations (01:18:02 - 01:24:29)

• Overall assessment: story is 'mid' quality, overly decompressed for the content

• Recommendation to read comic over watching movie due to better pacing and dialogue

• Acknowledgment that 4 issues would have been optimal length instead of 6

• Recognition of story's influence on modern Supergirl characterization going forward

Transcription

00:00
Alex
It's even worse in the movie because he just freezes up. And I'm like, you mean to tell me, like, they're not going to come looking for him?

00:05
Amanda
She could have at least sent him to, like, the Phantom Zone, right?

00:10
Case
Yeah, like some. He's just in space.

00:14
Amanda
Yeah, he's just chilling, frozen.

00:16
Alex
He's floating through space like Optimus prime in that one Transformers Michael Bay movie.

00:51
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Jm. ike Folson.

00:57
Jmike
Hey, Case, what's up? Welcome back to the show, everybody.

01:01
Case
Welcome back. Indeed. We are welcoming back in this episode a character who, at the time when the story came out, had been missing from the DC universe for 15 years. Because today we are journeying back to the Jeph Loeb Superman Batman run from the early 2000s to look at the second major story arc. We are looking at the Supergirl from Krypton and its adaptation, the Superman Batman Apocalypse animated movie. And to have that conversation, we are joined by Alex and Amanda from Night of the Batman.

01:34
Alex
Hey, guys. It's great to be on Kay. Definitely part two of our little crossover we did before.

01:40
Case
Yeah, yeah. We were recently on talking about the Batman Superman public Enemies arc over on your show.

01:46
Alex
Yeah, great. Can't wait to get into it.

01:49
Case
Yeah. So that was a really fun one to revisit. Like, I overall am pretty positive about that arc and about the movie. I think I've got nitpicks for both the comic and the movie, and they're different between them, but overall, I'm pretty positive about it. I'm leading this off because I do legitimately like a lot of Jeph Loeb Superman stuff. Huge fan of Superman for all seasons. I really like his run with Ed McGinnis on the Superman main books. I just need to say that because I'm going to be a little negative about this comic and I. I just don't want that to be my reputation when. Whenever I'm talking about Jeff Loeb comics, it's. I just. All right, so before we get into any of the, like, any. Anything about the actual nature of this book, which I think is mostly fine.

02:39
Case
I think it's just not a very complex story and it's very decompressed. Like, it didn't need to be six issues. And I think that the. The actual story beats are. Are a little bit just kind of like pick and choose your favorite things from the DC universe without necessarily having them really make a lot of sense. But there was a very well done version of this exact same story that came out about a year and a half before this in then running Supergirls book, the one with the Earthborn angel, who had previously been the Matrix entity Supergirl, where she encountered the Silver Age Supergirl in a story arc called Many Happy Returns.

03:12
Case
And I thought that was a really charming, well done version of literally this exact story where they do the Silver Age Supergirl story and the fact that they came out so close together. And one was the last arc of the Supergirl book that had been existing and then it got canceled, which I was a little bitter about. And then they did the surreal thing which didn't last for very long and then straight into this. And like I said, this one just. It, it just didn't feel as good. It, like it wasn't as charming. And so I was always like a little bitter about that. That, that's, that's my rant. Just to start off this conversation, we're.

03:53
Jmike
Starting off in the best foot so far.

03:56
Alex
It's, it's interesting that you say that because Jeph Loeb is kind of known for doing this, at least in stuff I've read like he. The Long Halloween. One of his biggest things, like, is basically just a retelling of Eye of the Beholder, which read that before. And I kind of prefer that hot take. Kind of prefer that over Long Halloween. So this isn't the first time he's kind of like taken another story and kind of put his own spin on it without necessarily maybe crediting the other creator, I guess.

04:29
Case
Yeah. And look, I mean, they're both takes on the Silver Age Kara Zor El being introduced to the DC world lore. I don't think that they're like that this is a ripoff necessarily of it. It just irked me that it was so close where they were like, oh, we did the story with the Silver Age Supergirl and then we decided to cancel that book and instead. And they could have just done it there instead of this whole like, well, we're going to bring in Wonder Woman and we're going to bring in Darkseid and we're going to make it this huge event where Harbinger dies.

05:03
Amanda
Am I the only one who thought the entire thing kind of felt a little anticlimactic, like, while reading it?

05:10
Case
Yes. Also there like it, she dies, but it doesn't feel like she really is dead. And like Darkseid doesn't feel like he's really defeated at the end of this whole story, like, because, you know he's just gonna come back.

05:23
Jmike
Spoilers.

05:24
Alex
Yeah, it was. I definitely got my thoughts. Overall, I would say, like, kind of like I said before with these books, they feel like. Well, he's known for. Jeff Lope's also known for making blockbusters. So this definitely does feel like a blockbuster. And a lot of it is, like, the story is kind of really thin, but, like, a lot of what you get is like, the back and forth dialog and like, the chemistry of the characters. I was not to go too far into the movie. I was kind of missing that at the beginning of the movie, though, with the back and forth, like, where he's talking to Superman and he's like saying, like, don't make me talk to Lois. He's like, you're really going to bring my wife into this? Like, I missed that whole, like, back and forth.

06:06
Jmike
Yeah.

06:06
Case
Them being on comms was a nice touch there that they omitted in the movie. Yeah, like, Loeb does have a good voice for Superman and Batman, like, both in terms of their inner monologues and then, like, their banter, like, their banter was really strong in the previous arc that we looked at as well. So I do agree that is a selling point for this book. And you bring up like, the big, like, the blockbuster style books that had started to become popular at this. This point in the. You know, this is now like the mid to late 2000s, but like, the 2000s are known for when like the Brian Hitch style of like, big, like, widescreen looking kind of shots really became popular. And like, Michael Turner is a great artist for that style of book.

06:50
Case
And like, there's certainly a, like, an appeal of like, Michael Turner, who's best known for doing like, a bunch of, like, top cow books, like, working in the D.C. Space and like, you know, playing nice with these characters. You know, there's. I. You know, there. There were definitely issues that were sold because we have like, a fully naked Supergirl running around as drawn by Michael Turner, who is best known for doing Witchblade and. Yeah.

07:15
Alex
Yeah, there's. There's definitely my.

07:18
Amanda
Some of the coat.

07:20
Alex
Yeah. Well, some of the costuming decisions, like having a. How old is she supposed to be in this book?

07:27
Case
Ish.

07:28
Alex
Okay, hard.

07:29
Amanda
Disagree. As somebody who was a teenager in the early 2000s, like, people wanted to dress like that, like, especially like the. The song outfit. All I could think of was like, Manny from Degrassi and, like, how that was like, a big thing where like, she wore a thong where you could see the straps and it was just like this, like, I don't know, feels. I think the style, like the clothing choices in the book felt much more like, authentic to the time. And I thought that they looked better than the clothing choices in the movie. And I understand teenager, but also teenagers dress like that.

08:08
Alex
I do miss Matrix Bruce Wayne because there's a point where he has his hair slicked back in the leather jacket and I'm like, man, you could really tell he saw the Matrix, like, recently.

08:20
Case
Regardless of your opinions of the fashions, they are of a very specific time when this whole thing comes out. All right, so I remember when this came out and I had just graduated college a couple of years out at this point. I think I had just moved to New York when these changes were happening with Supergirl. And so I remember having this thought process of being like, oh, I'm officially too old for the, like, what the design of the character is supposed to be like. Like, I'm officially in the ballpark where, like, this isn't supposed to be for me. Because I remember being, like, slightly bothered by it all.

09:00
Case
And I think that, like, legitimately, like, some of that is just like, yes, I had crossed that barrier where I was like 22 or 23 and just was like, yep, the 16 year old character, like, she shouldn't dress that way and had that thought process. I don't think it's inauthentic. I do question it for the character of Supergirl because Supergirl is supposed to be a bit of a moral paragon and it is. I don't know, it's. It's risque outfits. Like, are you.

09:28
Amanda
Are you saying that in order to be moral, you have to dress modestly?

09:32
Case
No, I know, I know. It's such a complicated thing to have a conversation about. Like, it's not really. Okay, so it's not moral, but modesty tends to be a characterization of like, of Supergirls in general. And so, like, just her personality type doesn't quite match, like, the aesthetics of the character as presented here. But that said, I realized that, like, I really like the Animated Series design, which also features like a crop top design. So, like, it's entirely just like they're drawing it specifically for a male gaze kind of style in this book. And so, like, it. Can't you like me being, like, at the point where I was starting to be, like, trying to distance myself from sexual arousal from by way of comics? Because, like, when you're a teenager and you're like, you know.

10:21
Case
Yeah, like, and trying to, like, not have that be like, a primary factor. I remember this being the, like, the first point in, like, comics where I was, like, icked by. By a decision in a book. That's all I'm getting at there.

10:35
Alex
And for the record, like, I'm not like, a prude or anything. Like, it's like, if it's. If it's age, my thing is just age appropriate for me. Like, there's a scene where Bard is like, in like, a towel and I'm like, I'm cool with that because, like, Bard is like an adult and everything. So, like, it's a different kind of thing. Yeah, no, but, like, it feels like you're sexualizing like a teenager to me. And that's where I was kind of like, kind of vibes with it. Right.

10:59
Case
Like, it's like, you know, it's not necessarily inauthentic, but it is male gazi as fuck. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

11:07
Alex
That's my only thing.

11:12
Case
Again, I don't think it's inauthentic. And I think that the outfits were, like, very fashionable for the time that they came out. It's just also, like, it was like, exactly in that window that, like five years earlier or five years later, like, just was very different fashion from this.

11:26
Alex
Yeah, it definitely made me nostalgic in places. Like I was telling you earlier on messenger or that messenger, whatever the thing's called.

11:33
Case
But anyway, yeah, the Instagram DMs that were. Yeah, going back, you had slid into.

11:39
Alex
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

11:44
Case
So. So why don't we look at the first issue and talk about how it compares with. With the movie. This issue is one of. One of my great examples of just like, it's extremely decompressed. Like, the. The story that happens here is so like. So nothing of a story like this could have been a page. This is. This easily could have been a five pages and gotten the emotional results that they wanted with it. But the whole issue is Supergirl wandering around confused about her powers and, like, things like chaos happening. I agree that the opening bits between Superman and Batman classic. Like, that is a wonderful bit of expose of their personalities and just, you know, just wonderfully developing them and sort of reminding us of the continuity of the.

12:36
Case
Of the previous story arc with the public enemies like Superman being in quarantine because of the. The kryptonite poisoning from the meteor is. Is a nice detail where it's like he's feeling like stir crazy as a Result of this whole situation. A thing that they drop in the.

12:50
Jmike
Movie mention that crap at all.

12:53
Alex
I missed it because it's like, I finally got a job for you. And then. And also before we get away from this too, like, I love how I wasn't as familiar with Michael Turner before this. I love how he drew Batman in this. Like Batman looked like amazing and this like the cow and everything. And I liked his like it was very action figure y, but I liked his whole like deep sea diving outfit and everything. Like I would buy an action figure of that. It looked really cool.

13:19
Case
Oh yeah. His stuff especially like his alternate designs for characters are very toyetic in a fun way. All of the gear that Batman picks up throughout this, like he's got his like scot free like levitation system and he's got like apocalypse warrior blades. Batman, like those would all be fantastic action figures.

13:39
Alex
Definitely.

13:40
Amanda
My biggest complaint is that he just throws his gear into the water. Like I. It bothered me so much. I don't know. I was just like, he wouldn't do that.

13:50
Jmike
To be fair, there's a ship down there. A ship, Five ships.

13:54
Case
That's fair.

13:55
Jmike
Cars like the Hudson.

13:58
Amanda
But I agree with you though. I feel like this could have been condensed into like half the size it was and issues one and two could have been just one issue.

14:10
Case
Yeah, yeah. It's just a lot of time spent on the situation and like it's even worse than when you're watching it and this. They spend so much time of the movie sort of establishing Kara just kind of running around being confused and causing mayhem. Yeah. You know, like it is fine when you're reading it in trade, but I do remember being annoyed in the, in like the single issues where it's like, oh, that was all that happened.

14:44
Alex
Yeah, yeah. Like I said, it's kind of thin story wise. Maybe he, maybe he realized that and he's like, I got to stretch these out. They wanted four. They wanted like four.

14:53
Case
This is certainly the era of writing for the trade. Like the that was like super popular in the like the mid 2000s. And like the fact that this is a six issue arc is like pretty clearly like this was designed for a trade paperback. You know, I, I like, I think that you could compress this all and get the same effect in four issues and it would have been fine. And you know, like you said, Amanda, like this first issue could easily have been just half an issue and then combine it with the next one where they're just like you know, analyzing her in the fortress and like going over details and some of these like are plot points that like don't need to happen necessarily. Like the whole amnesia thing.

15:34
Case
Like they don't need to necessarily like play it up to the same degree of it all.

15:40
Amanda
But if she doesn't have amnesia, why won't Bruce trust her?

15:47
Alex
That was the other thing for me because it was kind of weird because like I've read different parts of Batman's like throughout different time periods with him and so it's kind of weird here to like maybe like skip ahead like a tiny bit when they were talking about like Jason and stuff and like the Hush stuff. I'm like, oh, this is weird because like Jason isn't back yet and it was kind of this like weird in between point basically.

16:11
Case
Yeah. It again this is a very specific moment in the comic like where like the Hush storyline has happened but. But Jason has not been brought back yet.

16:20
Alex
Yeah, but in between. Yeah, but yeah, I think one of the like you said it was such thin story wise that I think that they had to even add stuff in the movie just to kind of fill up space because I don't think they realized they didn't have a lot of material to work with either.

16:40
Case
Right. Yeah. It's again like the story itself is so. It's such a tight story that it's just like it could have very easily been a two part Superman episode on. Of the Animated series. Yeah, if that.

16:58
Alex
Yeah, maybe one episode.

16:59
Amanda
Yeah, two part special.

17:02
Alex
Yeah.

17:03
Jmike
I feel like we talked about this last time too where so like for public enemies, if it was, if it would have been like a one off, like all right, cool. The movie did a great job of setting everything up. Had a beginning, a middle and end we don't have to worry about. It was a great self encapsulated story. But if you read the books, like, oh, there's a whole bunch more they left out. And it's kind of important for this story because they set up the dark side stuff in the first books. They set up the quote unquote Luther Death and all the other stuff in the first books. And if you don't know about that stuff, you're like, where did Darkseid come from? Where did all this Kryptonian stuff come from?

17:41
Jmike
Where the I thought the meteor was gone, it blew up, Batman saved everybody, blah, blah. And you're like wait a second, this is completely different here. I feel like we missed Some things.

17:55
Alex
I feel like there was probably more. Unlike this one, I feel like, in the. In the Public Enemies comic, I feel like there was a lot more in that. Like, a lot more happened in those issues versus this one, where it's like, you know, there's nothing wrong with having a very, like, succinct story, but, like, you know, it's like, I feel like in that one there was, like, a lot more of, like, maybe setup and a lot more of different moving parts in it versus, like, with this one.

18:22
Case
Yeah, I, like. I would describe Loeb's writing style on the Batman Superman book specifically as being like, and this then happens, and then this happens style of writing. And I think in Public Enemies, like, some of those are really random and thus made sense to remove for the sake of the Animated movie being tighter or less hard to explain to people. This story arc, I feel like, and this then happens, and then this then happens stuff is all the way Diana approaches, you know, taking Supergirl to be, like, trained, or the way that Darkseid, like, appears at the end, you know, for, like, round two at the Kent House, like, it feels very much like, oh, shit.

19:13
Case
We still have more time to spend on issues that, you know, are there for the sake of just being a fight sequence that looks good for Michael Turner artwork. And then for the Animated Series is, like, here's fun action sequences that we can, you know, develop more.

19:28
Jmike
But they kind of explained it, though, in the book.

19:32
Case
Oh, explained. But it just feels very convenient.

19:38
Jmike
Yeah, extremely convenient.

19:41
Alex
That's fair.

19:41
Case
For the sake of it being a comic book.

19:44
Amanda
So I'm not as familiar as you would be with Superman's characterization just in general throughout, like, trying to think, like, the canon of the comics. Do you think, like, his characterization in this, like, holds true in the way that he kind of throws logic out the window.

20:02
Case
I don't like his characterization.

20:03
Jmike
Thank you.

20:04
Amanda
Okay, okay.

20:05
Case
Thank you for bringing that up. We hadn't gotten to like, that in the comic yet, like, in our sort of play by play. But that's another big, like, mark against this one for me. Like, he's so irrational, and they don't do a great job to sort of explain it. Like, you can maybe justify it with some of the stir, craziness and, like, the amount of kryptonics or kryptonite exposure that he's had, like, especially in the. In the comic version where he's been in quarantine. But, like, he's such a douchebag. And then, like, The. Then his, like, he's that way to other people. Like, he, like, chokes out Artemis, like, you know, terrible behavior.

20:41
Case
But then again, like, Diana isn't acting with, like, a lot of sense either, where it's like, oh, I'm just going to, like, assault Kal El, the most powerful being on the planet.

20:49
Alex
Like, is it bad writing, you think? Like, honestly, it just.

20:55
Amanda
It felt like everybody was acting out of character. Like. Like a strange, like, fan fiction almost. And I just. I don't know. I thought it was just me because I'm not as familiar, like, with the.

21:12
Case
No, I completely agree with you.

21:13
Amanda
So I just wanted to check to make sure I wasn't, like, reading it wrong.

21:18
Alex
Yeah, yeah.

21:19
Case
I mean, like, the way that, like, you know, for example, when we get to, like, Barda and she's walking with Diana and she's like, hey, you know, we've never really had a chance to talked about this, but I just always wanted to say, like, you're an inspiration to me. Like, these are characters who served in the Justice League together. Like, they have had chances to talk before.

21:36
Jmike
At this point, Maybe this was the most opportune time. You never know.

21:40
Case
Maybe just, you know, it just feels like a dialogue bit that, like, Jeph Loeb assumes must happen at some point between Barda and Wonder Woman. And he's like, well, I'm writing this book here. I might as well put it in, like, you know, and it's fine. It's not like that part isn't terribly out of character. It's just weird that she's never had the opportunity to say that before. And, you know, the way the movie plays it up even more, where they don't seem to know Barter that well, the comic is more reflective of the relationship that they have. But, you know, so, like, when Barter's trying to be like, you don't know what you're getting into with going to Apocalypse. Like, Superman knows what he's getting into going to Apocalypse.

22:24
Alex
What are you talking. Talking about?

22:26
Case
He's been there several times.

22:29
Alex
Yeah.

22:29
Jmike
Can we really blame the Crypt Knight thing on Clark, though? Because, like, Batman says they've been working on it for two weeks, and they've had, like, all hands on deck for two weeks straight going across the planet, getting the kryptonite out.

22:41
Case
So, like, I just mean that, like, you could justify some of his behavior by being like, well, he's been exposed to a bunch of kryptonite recently. It's not a good explanation, but it's at least like, something of an explanation.

22:51
Amanda
Well, also, he's been in isolation, so he's obviously, like you said, stir crazy. And he feels alone.

22:57
Alex
He's acting like the. He's acting like the Henry Cavill Superman where, like, it basically vibes of if I wanted it, you'd be dead already kind of vibes in this one a little bit. Right.

23:08
Case
This is hot. Clark Summer.

23:10
Alex
Yeah.

23:10
Case
Yeah. He's finally out after quarantine.

23:14
Alex
Yeah. Yeah.

23:17
Jmike
So Batman picks up like blue kryptonite, red kryptonite, a whole bunch of other forms of kryptonite I had never seen before. And I was like, do these mean anything? Or like.

23:30
Amanda
We were supposed to get rid of the second issue at some point.

23:33
Case
Yeah. So anyway, sorry. So the. The first issue, like we said, like, there isn't really that much that happens in it. Like Batman goes to investigate. And it is cool that, like, we get a good, like, interplay between Batman and Superman. He finds a ship underwater, and while he's studying it, a person climbs into his bat boat and is able to pilot it away, which is like, Batman. Aren't. Aren't you more prepared than that?

23:59
Jmike
Like that.

24:00
Case
That's such a weird detail.

24:03
Alex
It's fine. He's probably just left the hatch open or something. It's like security measures. What are those?

24:08
Amanda
Maybe he just assumes nobody's gonna mess with. But like the bat boat, he's just like, it. It's Batman.

24:15
Jmike
I mean, exactly. It's.

24:17
Alex
He's right next to Gotham. He's got to assume that somebody's going to be like, oh, what's this? And all Batman stuff, just jump in there.

24:25
Case
Here's the thing that gets me. I've got this book of five minute DC comic stories that I read to my daughter periodically. One of the stories is Joker's Joyride, where after he gets away from Batman while robbing a museum, the Batmobile is there and the keys just happen to be in it. And he just gets in the Batmobile and drives off. And the story is like the super friends trying to chase him down. And it's like, patently ridiculous that the Batmobile would just have the keys in the ignition and someone would be able to do that. And then it happens. In this book, it's just the boat instead of the Batmobile.

25:03
Alex
I mean, has the Batmobile ever had great security measures because Jason Todd was taking the tires off of it and everything.

25:11
Amanda
So also, I like in the movie, but she just like, crawls and falls in and just happens to, like, hit it for it to Accelerate.

25:22
Case
Yeah, yeah, she. She clearly doesn't understand human technology and it just lucks into like, get. Getting it to, like, propel like really like. Like a seal or something. Could have hopped in from. From the bay and caused the same situation.

25:42
Alex
Be hilarious.

25:43
Amanda
What, a bit less work for Batman.

25:45
Alex
Yeah.

25:46
Case
And then Supergirl wanders around the streets of Gotham City, and because she's naked, immediately people assume that she's a prostitute and try to assault her, which is not.

25:58
Amanda
As a child.

26:03
Case
I find the writing not particularly subtle, but there is an element of like. Well, that's probably not undrew. But then she. She runs afoul of the cops who immediately try to like, open fire on her. And it's more egregious in the movie where they're just like, shooting at, like, random statues that are, like, cracking and whatnot.

26:20
Alex
Yeah.

26:21
Jmike
Why?

26:21
Case
Why are you just like, opening fire, like, just in general in your city? Like that. And especially once you've established that this thing can fly and is seemingly bulletproof.

26:31
Jmike
And has laser eyes.

26:32
Case
Yeah. Like, we're all familiar with superheroes at this point. Like, this is a world full of them.

26:39
Amanda
Oh, drivers you like. Same power to Superman, wouldn't you assume? Yeah, Kryptonian. Like.

26:48
Alex
We'Re assuming a lot about, like, the civilians of maybe like a lot of them. Like, you know, people in real life, I feel like, aren't that aware or educated about certain things. So maybe you got like one or two people. It's like.

27:01
Case
I'm just saying that the. The forced response by the police officers is kind of fucked up. Like, they. They go heavy real quick in a way that causes a lot of collateral damage, regardless of if she was or wasn't bulletproof. But she clearly establishes herself as bulletproof very early on anyway, so Batman tries to intervene, she flies off and it causes a blimp to blow up. So Superman comes out of his quarantine to stop that. So he gets an action scene for him. Then Batman approaches Kara with Kryptonite to knock her out. When she wakes up in the Batcave being scanned, she doesn't take this very well and tries to escape. And that's when Superman intervenes and speaks to her in Kryptonian. And we establish like, oh, shit, you're my cousin. Yeah.

27:49
Jmike
I just want to say that in the movie, Batman is holding like a 15 pound chunk of kryptonite in his hands. And I was like, where the hell did he get that from? He just pulls down and was like, here you go, kid. Go to sleep. In the book it's much smaller, but, like, the movie is just. It's massive.

28:05
Alex
Yeah, that's a good point.

28:06
Case
Yeah. And he's much more explicitly getting it from, like, the kryptonite that, like, fell in the bay from in the comic.

28:12
Jmike
Yeah, yeah.

28:13
Alex
It's weird. Yeah. Like, there are, like. I feel like also, like, arbitrary changes and that's that. I noticed, like, some things where I'm like, why did you change that? Like, throughout, like, there's just like. Like, I don't know when. Sometimes when they're adapting stuff, they'll just like move locations of things, like. Because this, like you said, is like, so to the T for the most part of, like, what the original comic is. But I feel like they make like, weird location changes or sometimes just add stuff that doesn't necessarily need to be there. Like at one point, skipping ahead at Apocalypse, they're going through it like Barda and her going through a sewer or something for some reason. And then they're getting to the gladiator area and I'm like, why did you have that? Like, it's.

29:00
Alex
You could have just had like, one for one. Like, they're going through a tunnel like this. This movie seems set up to have, like, fight scenes, basically. Don't get me wrong, the comic definitely has that, but seems like a lot more like you compared it kind of to like a silent movie at the beginning because there's like basically almost no dialogue. It's a lot of visuals and like, you know, action scenes and like, you know, it's minimal on some of the dialogue. And I feel like it also felt.

29:27
Amanda
Like the scene with Kara going through Gotham was drawn out in the movie. It felt much longer than it needed to be.

29:36
Case
Yes, yes. It's noticeably long in the comic and the movie makes it even longer because we spend a lot of time watching all of the sequences of her kind of flying awkwardly into things. You know, it's not just a panel of cops opening fire. It's like a really drawn out sequence of the cops, like, shooting things. It's so decompressed. Like, it's. This is such an egregious example of that. But the next issue picks up with her in the Fortress of Solitude being studied more. And it plays pretty similarly between this and the. In the movie, generally speaking, Batman, you know, expresses that he is distrustful of her, while Superman is immediately like, I trust her completely.

30:21
Case
And that's when Kara runs in and is being chased by Krypto the Superdog, which is an interesting wrinkle in this whole situation because this is a version of Krypto that has some anger issues. Specifically, it's a version that was introduced in the Jeph Loeb, Ed McGinnis Era of Superman Run and is a recent introduction to the Superman lore of the comic book period. And has. Has an issue where he is. Attacks a person and is, you know, scary because he's. He's a superdog. So him being scary and like, not trusting Kara is not completely out of character for this crypto. But it does feel weird when Krypto the superdog doesn't trust you.

31:07
Alex
Yeah, it's definitely not the one that we grew up with, the animated Crypto, the Super dog where he talks. I'm actually looking at the complete series over here of that on dvd. I was, I was kind of thinking about that when were watching it today and then obviously like the new movie, but I'm like, yeah, like, he's like. I guess it's realistic, I guess because he would be territorial of like his like, you know, area and like the fortress, because, like, it's Fortress of Solitude. No one's there. So like, it would be one of those things where maybe he's just very like, guarded with stuff. Yeah, go ahead.

31:43
Amanda
Well, something. And in both versions, Clark does comment that like, Crypto doesn't like anyone. That like, Crypto is very like, protective of the fortress and that like, protective of him.

31:55
Alex
Yeah.

31:55
Amanda
So I mean, if it's pre established.

31:58
Alex
That crypto's angry and I don't like that characterization though. Like, you know, Superman's dog should be nice. Like, it should be like in Superman that at least from what we've seen in the teaser where like, he seems like just like a happy dog, basically.

32:14
Amanda
I feel like there's a super dog and, you know, he should be able to sense that Kara's, you know, like his people.

32:22
Jmike
Yeah, I don't know.

32:24
Amanda
That's what I want.

32:26
Alex
Unlike, unlike a good story, like, it's kind of like. It's not like bad storytelling necessarily, but it's like it's written to generate conflict. Not necessarily. Like some characters are acting out of character just to generate like drama and conflict where normally there wouldn't be much, basically.

32:46
Amanda
I also feel like, I think that like Batman in this scene was really interesting too, just because he and like it's commented on in the book, but he's the one who's used to like taking in kids and being a dad. And so for him to be like, so have so many guards up against, like, child felt a little weird. And I understand that she has superpowers, but even so, like, this was.

33:15
Alex
This was kind of how Batman was written. Batman used to be written to be kind of an. In the early 2000s, basically. Like, that was kind of his characterization around that time, to be fair.

33:28
Amanda
But, like, even Superman comments on it. He's just like, he's the one who's a dad.

33:33
Alex
Well, they even. I think, like were mentioning earlier where, like, he choked. Like, who was it again? It was Artemis.

33:40
Jmike
Artemis.

33:42
Case
That's Superman. Who does that.

33:43
Amanda
Yes.

33:44
Alex
Yeah, my bad, Superman. And they tone that down in the movie where he just. Just grabs her. And, like, the line doesn't make sense because he's like, you look like you were about to, like, snap her neck. Her neck. And I was just like, he just grabbed her arm. What are you talking about? That was a weird. Like, they should have changed that dialogue, maybe.

34:04
Jmike
It was a really weird fight because you could. Like, if you know anything about Kryptonians, that sword wasn't going to do diddly squat. So I was like, why is he like, oh, no, my cousin's in such mortal danger.

34:13
Case
Hang on, we're about to get to that whole sequence.

34:16
Alex
Sorry.

34:16
Case
Hit the beats that are. Are in issue too. Because again, this. Not a lot happens in each of these individual issues. So Batman doesn't trust Kara, and they establish that at great lengths. They force Kara to go through her memories of Krypton exploding, and it's in these fractured pieces. Then we cut over to the female Furies of Apocalypse, and we've got Granny Goodness and then her Furies going at what appears to be Angela from Marvel Comics and previously from, like, Spawn Comics. Yeah, like, I, like, I think it's just a nod in terms of design, but, you know, it's this unnamed woman who. Or not unnamed, but like, this prospective candidate for. For the Furies who gets. Gets wiped out.

35:06
Jmike
Precious. Yeah, Precious.

35:07
Case
Right? Precious. Yeah. Name. Somewhere in there, I was surprised at how brutal the fight is in the movie. Like, they don't show the. Like, the fatal wound, but they do show, like, a ton of blood coming off of her.

35:20
Alex
Yeah, yeah. This was. I think this was also around the time when they were in the DC animated stuff. They were trying to go for, see how far they could push the boundary and still maintain that PG13 rating. I feel like. So it was home release, so I feel like they were kind of testing.

35:37
Case
The water testing limits of everything.

35:39
Alex
Exactly.

35:40
Amanda
This is like another example of them, like, decompressing it because it's. You don't really see the fight scene.

35:45
Case
In the comic, but it's really pronounced or like it's really prolonged in the movie. Yeah.

35:51
Jmike
In the comic you just hear get jumped and that's it. And it fights over, basically.

35:57
Case
Yeah, yeah. So then we get a. A girls love shopping scene.

36:05
Alex
Oh, boy.

36:06
Case
We just opened with Clark being like. You certainly have the shopping part down of being an Earth girl.

36:11
Alex
Yeah, that was a little sexist, right?

36:14
Case
I mean, like, sure, look, you know, like, retail therapy is a thing and they have a. They just have a really long sequence of it in the movie of just like, here's a shopping montage for Supergirl.

36:27
Alex
It was charming because up until that point it'd just been like. And I don't mind fight scenes, obviously, but just been fight, fight. And it's like stuff like that. So, like, having this. I'm like, oh, at least this is, like, charming. And it seems to be, like, having fun a little bit with that, because we didn't even see that in the. Oh, I'm not.

36:44
Case
I'm not. Of seeing her, like, different, like, outfits and stuff like. That's like a fun component of it. I'm just noting that in the comic, like, the line is like, kind of a. Yeah, a little better.

36:57
Alex
Yeah, yeah.

36:59
Case
I've already got my guards up. When it comes to a Michael Turner book when things happen, I. I'm just like, on the lookout for it. But this is where we get the aforementioned Matrix Batman, where rather than going with like a matchless balloon or something like that, it's just like extremely slicked back. Bruce Wayne with tiny sunglasses at night.

37:22
Alex
Yeah. In my head, I'm just like, maybe it has like a. Like a readout or something like on the. In the sunglasses maybe, or something like to make an excuse for how he looks like a douche, basically walking around at night with some sunglasses.

37:39
Case
We do get an exchange that I really like, which is when they come across the statue of Superman. Kara goes into how it's like, oh, this is why your disguise works. Because they see you as so much larger than life that they would never even imagine you standing right in front of them in, like, mortal clothes. And I think that's like a good analysis of the public perception of Superman.

38:07
Alex
Definitely.

38:08
Case
And then we get them all attacked and it's supposed to be a fake out where you think this might be the Female Furies, but it's actually Wonder Woman and the Amazons. And the comic doesn't spend much time on that fake out. Because, like, it's very clearly Artemis and it's very clearly Harbinger very early on. But the movie spends a little bit more time trying to make you think that, like, oh, this is the female fairies. Or, like, for example, like, Wonder Woman's lasso doesn't glow when it happens. So you think it might be Lashina just, you know, just in there for. For the sake of that.

38:38
Alex
Yeah.

38:39
Case
But I find this approach to conflict resolution so bewildering, I guess, is like, my whole thing, like, in the movie, like, Wonder Woman has this whole, like, thing being about, like, you see how when we attacked her, like, she causes so much collateral damage. Imagine if this was the daytime and there were children. It's like, well, yeah, but like, they're. They're like, I don't think you need to make that point that dramatically. Like, I think you could have just been like, hey, like, we have an island of sister suit, thanks to the Purple Ray, all have super strength. Like, we could, you know, train your girl and have her, like, be, like, safe and protected while we do so, and that would give her a place to go and have, like, you know, a sorority effectively.

39:22
Case
Like, I feel like Superman would be down for something like that. It's not like he has to, like, be physically super close to her all the time. He's Superman. He can hear things, and he can get to her instantly whenever he wants, definitely.

39:37
Alex
So I've been like. So obviously I listen to your podcast, and I hear this mention of this Purple Ray every time. Can you explain to me the Purple Ray?

39:45
Case
All right, so I'm. I'm being facetious in terms of. Of. In the comic at this time, the Purple Ray is not a factor, but the Purple Ray is a bit of super science that the Amazons had pre crisis that was used in the creation of Donna Troy by way of siphoning off the strength of all the Amazons to infuse Donna Troy with that strength. And basically, it's like, it's a panacea kind of beam that can do whatever healing or, like, augmentation it needs whenever it happens to be required.

40:24
Alex
Gotcha. Cool.

40:25
Case
And I just. It's a funny bit of Wonder Woman lore that, like, J. Mike and I like to bring up.

40:34
Alex
I noticed it was a reoccurring bit. Also, before we move on from the scene in the park, one of the things I did, like, in the comic was the little bit in its. Obviously, only in the comic where Batman uses a Batarang and, like, splits one of the Arrows and stuff. He's like, I have to thank Oliver later for teaching me that move. Like, it was just like one of those little small moments. I was like, I like that a lot of world building stuff.

40:59
Jmike
So I had thoughts about this fight because, like, later on you come to find out that Batman and Wonder Woman set the entire thing up. And I was like, cool, then why is Artemis trying to fight Batman?

41:11
Amanda
Well, okay, so what I assumed was that Superman has super hearing and he knows Batman is following them, so Batman has to be attacked also. So that way Batman has an excuse for not trying to save them.

41:29
Alex
They had to sell it. That's what you're saying.

41:33
Amanda
That was. That was just like my logicing of it.

41:38
Jmike
Yeah, I was thinking that too, but I was like, well, cool. But like, why Artemis, of all people? She could have had, like another. Another Amazonian company. Like, all right, cool handshake.

41:46
Case
All right, we're done with our part. Because Artemis is the most famous Wonder Woman, like, associate character at this point. Like, that's fair.

41:53
Jmike
I was like, why is dead.

41:54
Alex
Right?

41:55
Case
Yeah, yeah. At this point. Donna. I think it died and came back at this point.

42:03
Jmike
Yeah, because they mention it later on. Spoilers.

42:05
Alex
Okay.

42:08
Amanda
Mention her when they mentioned Jason. So as.

42:11
Alex
Yeah.

42:14
Case
Right. And Cassie's running around at this point as well. But. But yeah, I just thought that part was weird. I think that it works to have a rationalization, but it is a rationalization. I think that the movie actually does a slightly better job of Batman just showing up being like, she's right. Side note, we haven't actually talked about the voice cast of this movie, which we probably should because we got Tim Daly and Kevin Conroy reprising the roles from the Animated Series. So that's pretty awesome. We also have Ed Asner reprising his role as Granny Goodness.

42:48
Alex
That was amazing.

42:49
Jmike
Yeah.

42:49
Amanda
I hate it. I hate it. That's all I'm going to say is I hate it.

42:53
Jmike
I mean, but, like, the main cast are the same ones from, like, the Justice League Animated Series show. So, like, I was like, cool, they're all back. But I was like, wait, was that really Ed Asler?

43:03
Alex
I loved it. It's so such a weird choice. But, like, that's why I kind of like it. It's because it's such a weir.

43:12
Jmike
But then you get Andre Brauer as dark side.

43:14
Alex
So I was like, oh, it was. That was not good. I didn't like that dark side.

43:19
Jmike
It was rushed. Like, a lot of. A lot of his lines were like, he was rushing through it sometimes instead of taking his time with it.

43:26
Case
Yeah, if. If they had brought back Michael Ironside, it would. That would be a, you know, a wonderful full cast reunion at that point.

43:35
Amanda
Definitely take a second to just admire how cute they drew Kara in the movie. I couldn't get over the button nose. I thought it was adorable. And I talked about it, like, three times during the movie to him.

43:50
Alex
I was like, oh, about how adorable she is.

43:53
Case
You know, that is the razor edge that they have to do with Supergirl design, where she has to be adorable and also, like, hot. Like, they have to find a way for it to not be, like, egregious in any one direction. Like, they have to, like, perfectly nail this, like. Oh, like, she. She's, you know, like this all American Girl of your dreams, like, kind of character. And they did. They do a pretty good job in terms of her design. Obviously, Michael Turner makes her like it. Probably that doesn't get the balance quite right and goes a little too sexy. But that's just what you expect when. When you're dealing with the Michael Turner book, what you're in for. Anyway, so Wonder Woman at the end of the second issue is just like, I'm taking her.

44:43
Case
And then we cut over into the next issue where she is doing a training fight with Artemis, and you get to see, like, everyone kind of floating around. Now, I want to bring up the fact that Harbinger is here, because Harbinger being around surprised me at the time, and I was, like, sure that she must have been doing something big in the interim after Crisis on Infinite Earths. And as far as I can tell, no, she wasn't. She basically was hanging out on ERA and hasn't had a bunch of big stuff and then legitimately meets her fate here. And that's her story. She was around for Crisis on Infinite Earths as a major character, and then was around for this particular side story of Batman Superman. And this is where she meets her fate. And, like, that.

45:36
Case
That's it for the character, which is so weird. Like, she feels like she should be a bigger character than all that.

45:43
Jmike
Yeah.

45:45
Amanda
It felt like she was only used as a misdirect, too.

45:48
Case
Right. Because she happens to be blonde.

45:49
Alex
Well, in the movie.

45:51
Amanda
Yeah.

45:52
Alex
But the only other thing I'd seen her in before, like, before this was there was, like, a series with, I call it the D Listers of DC Comics where she was, like, part of this group, and they. They bought Snowflame, who. If people don't know who that is, it's the cocaine is my God villain. Yeah. So that's the last thing I had seen her in before this.

46:18
Case
God damn it.

46:20
Alex
Yeah.

46:24
Case
Anyway, so while this training fight is happening, we get this whole like, Superman is just super irrational. He steps into the middle of the fight to break it up when Artemis looks like she's going to attack Kara with a sword and he chokes her out. In the comic, in the movie, he just grabs her arm. And then as we noted, the dialogue is like, you looked like you were going to break her neck, which makes more sense when he's choking her out than when he's just grabbing her arm. So. So yeah, like, this movie is a little too one to one at some points while making small adjustments in ways that they don't think about the domino effects of like, how one to one they're being.

47:02
Alex
Yeah. For the record, I appreciate that they kind of tone down his aggressiveness because I'm like, dude, like, I get it. You're like, you only got your dog and that's basically it. But like, you got. You got to like ease up a little bit, man.

47:13
Case
Yeah, he's so aggressive.

47:15
Jmike
He's got Silver Boy.

47:17
Alex
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, no, he said. I think he says in there, he's just like, well, he doesn't count because he's like, he's a clone.

47:24
Jmike
He doesn't count.

47:25
Case
Yeah, yeah.

47:26
Alex
Geez. Come on, man.

47:28
Case
Yeah, it's. It's just such an irrational Superman. Like, and he's. Yeah. Like, it. It bugs me to read him being so hot headed. Like, like it just doesn't like, feel like Superman for a good chunk of this. And it feels like it is that way so that we can have any drama whatsoever so that this can be a full issue.

47:50
Alex
Yeah, yeah, Forced drama.

47:52
Case
Because we get this like forced drama of them arguing. And then there's a boom tube. And not only is there one doomsday, there's an army of doomsdays. And holy shit. Does this feel like, again, the fan fickiest of like fan fici? Like we're just going to pull whatever big things that we can have and like, yeah, technically Darkseid had access to Doomsday and could make a copy of him. Like that is legit continuity, but like this fight could have just been parademons and it wouldn't have changed anything about the fight.

48:21
Jmike
Yeah, yeah.

48:23
Alex
But it has the ninja effect too, where it's just like one doomsday is really effective if you have a whole army of them. They're like putties from Like Power Rangers, where you could just take them out really easily, no problem. Even Batman in the movie takes one of them out, which I call bullshit on that, by the way. As a Batman fan. I call bullshit.

48:44
Case
Yeah. Batman doing anything effective against a Doomsday, like, even a depowered doomsday, is insane.

48:50
Alex
Yeah.

48:51
Case
Also, I want to call out. There's a spot where they're like, there's no blood. They're not real. Doomsday doesn't bleed. Doomsday. Solid being. That's, like, one of his whole deals is that he doesn't actually have internal organs. He just has solid mass. So that's just like, a detail for the character. And, like, they're still strong enough to hurt Superman.

49:10
Jmike
Yeah, he gets rocked a couple times in the movie.

49:12
Case
Yeah. So that means that, like, Batman shouldn't have a chance and most of the Amazon shouldn't either.

49:17
Alex
Yeah, there should be a lot more casualties, basically.

49:20
Amanda
I did like, seeing Batman will the battle axe, though.

49:23
Case
That part is cool. Again, like, I think that if this had been Parademons, it would have been the same stakes and, like, less unbelievable. Although it would be kind of fucked up for Superman to incinerate them all with his. With his heat vision. So.

49:43
Alex
So.

49:43
Case
So maybe robots or. Or whatever. Or. I mean, like, sure. Artificial Doomsdays. It just feels like it just happens to be another big name that they can pull out there and be like, yeah, we're gonna throw an army of Doomsdays at. At you for, like, this big widescreen kind of action scene sequence. You know, like, it's there. It's a prolonged action sequence that is, like, supposed to be a cover for the Furies attacking and taking Chara and killing Harbinger.

50:17
Alex
Like a toy commercial.

50:20
Amanda
I also feel like the movie really missed an opportunity where we watched the fight with Doomsdays, but they could have easily switched up. And so, like, we could have sort of had. Why am I forgetting the literary term for this? We could have had, like, dramatic irony where we, like, knew what was going on and we knew that they were taking Kara and then watch them, like, figure that out. And then they didn't do that.

50:47
Jmike
We.

50:48
Amanda
It played out the same way the comics did, which I think would have been more interesting for them to swap perspectives.

50:55
Alex
Yeah, that's fair.

50:56
Case
Yeah, I would have preferred. Yeah. Because again, the comic just feels very much like. And then this and then this. And, like, one of those is like, oh, and Cara is dead. Oh, it's not Cara. It's actually a Harbinger. Okay, cool.

51:09
Jmike
What would happen if they had fought Darkseid here first. Like, Dark side appears and the Furious appear where Cara is. And Dark's like, I'm just here for the girl. Get out of my way. And, like, have the big fight with him. While everyone's focused on him, they forget about Cara completely.

51:24
Alex
That one worked too. Yeah.

51:27
Amanda
And then he just kind of disappears on his own, and they're like, this annoys me.

51:35
Alex
Yeah.

51:37
Case
So the next issue picks up, and this is one where they don't say the name of the character soon enough for the character to have no clear identifying marks about who she is in the comic version of it. So we are introduced to Big Barda, but at first just a woman in a towel. And because you don't have Diana or Superman being dwarfed by her because they're not in the same frame together, you don't have that visual cue until you're two pages in when they're in the same shot together, and they're like, oh, that's Big Barda.

52:13
Alex
Okay, cool. I liked that, actually. That's one of my critiques, I guess, of the movie is, like, it's only slight, but, like, in the comic, I feel like she was way taller than Superman. And I feel like in the movie, they kind of made it a little bit more even, where, like. Like, it's only, like, slightly taller. And I'm like, no. Like, have. Have certain characters be taller than Superman, Especially if it's, like, big part. It's too, like, you know.

52:38
Case
Right, Exactly.

52:39
Alex
Yeah.

52:40
Jmike
In the book. In the comics, she's towering over this dude, and I was like, oh, I didn't know she was that much taller than, like. He gets pissed off. He's like. He just floats up a little bit higher to get a little bit taller than she is a dick move.

52:55
Alex
Reminds me of in the Incredibles, where they're arguing and, like, Elastigirl makes herself, like, taller. Kind of gave me those vibes a little bit.

53:06
Case
So they approach Barda and they convince her to open up a boom tube to Apocalypse so that they can go after Kara. In both the movie and in the comic, she insists on going with them because she fucking hates Apocalypse. And any chance to, like, go after Darkseid and, like, fuck up his shit, she's gonna do it because that's one of her character deals. And the fact that they think that she wouldn't is just, like, more dialogue for the sake of dialogue for these characters. They are old, established allies at this point that, you know, the. The. The back and forth sometimes is like, no, that. That makes sense if they were new friends, but in this scenario, like, no, they've. They've been Justice Leaguers together. Like, they're. They're gonna.

53:55
Case
Like, she was gonna help them, and she was gonna come with them, and that was always how it was gonna play out. Like, they. And they know that. Yeah.

54:00
Alex
And even there's like, another, like, little, small thing that I preferred in the comic where, like, with, like, Mr. Miracle's stuff, like, Batman just goes and just, like, opens it up. And in the movie, it's much more like, I think she does it or something.

54:15
Case
Yeah. She opens it up so that he's not, like, just, like, going through her apartment or through her house and, like, finding, like, the button to, like, open up his, like, secret panels.

54:23
Alex
Yeah, I like.

54:26
Case
Yeah, it depends on which you prefer. Like, if you prefer a Batman who respects personal boundaries, then the movie is better. If you. If you prefer a Batman who doesn't and will just, like, open up people's shit, then the comic is better.

54:37
Alex
It makes them seem more clever in the comic, I think, too.

54:40
Amanda
More of a detective move to just go in. Yeah, open it up.

54:44
Case
Oh, yeah, for sure.

54:45
Jmike
Everyone's just having an argument out in the back, in the front, in the foreground, and he's in the background like, oh, what does this button do? Oh, it's just over here. Oh, I found this stuff. I need to borrow this really quickly.

54:57
Alex
Batman just breaking and entering everywhere.

55:00
Jmike
This is also where we get that big argument between the Trinity where Superman is like, yo, we wouldn't have this whole thing if it was Jason Todd or Donna Troy.

55:09
Alex
And everyone's like, ooh, that was such a dick move.

55:15
Amanda
I feel like there are some things you just don't say to people who are supposed to be your best friend.

55:21
Case
They're so combative in this arc. It doesn't make sense.

55:25
Amanda
What happened to the bros from the last movie? The last arc where they were just trying to save the world together because they're besties. What happened to that?

55:37
Alex
Well, now his cousins here, so everything's different, I guess, because he's acting like a teenager in this, where he's like, you just don't understand Bruce. It's like, come on, man. It's, like, ridiculous.

55:48
Case
Yeah. So they. They invade Apocalypse, the. The dark death planet of the evil gods of Kirby's fourth world, and they break up into teams. So Diana and Barda go to. In the comic, they just, like, walk through, like, a hallway and then end up in this gladiatorial arena in the movie. They walk through this, like, sewer before they get to it, and, like, it's, like, coming in from. From underneath. Meanwhile, Batman takes, like, some flight gear and, like, goes to try to find. What are they called? Like, hellspawn?

56:22
Jmike
What is it? Hell spawn? Not hellspawns. They're called the. Damn it. I was laughing about this earlier.

56:29
Case
Hellspores.

56:30
Jmike
Hellspores, yeah. There you go.

56:31
Case
Yep. So Batman finds those in order to, like, set up a bomb situation where he can be holding a dead man. Switch over Darkseid. Meanwhile, Superman goes to confront Kara directly. Yeah. Like, where do we want to start? Like, the Barda Diana versus the female Furies fight, I guess. Makes the most sense.

56:53
Alex
Yeah, sure. Yeah.

56:54
Case
Yeah. So this is just a chance to have, like, good action sequences between a lot of scary women. Like, they. They are. Are cool and powerful with, like, a lot of different tricks. Like, the different female Furies all have, like, their own fighting styles. Like, Like Lashina lashes you and, like, Stompina stomps on you. Matt. Harriet will. Will fuck you up because crazy beats big every time.

57:19
Alex
It's like he man villains, basically, like, kind of with the name theming and everything.

57:24
Case
Yep, yep. So apparently, and I'm pretty sure this is apocryphal, but there's this story that the. That the Corman Masters of the Universe movie from the 80s was originally conceived of as being a fourth world movie. Really? Yeah.

57:41
Alex
Nice.

57:42
Case
And you can, like, see it. Like, it's like. I mean, there's such archetypal characters anyway that you could see Orion stuff, like, stepping in for he man and, like, Skeletor being replaced by Darkseid. Like, it would all make sense.

57:54
Alex
Yeah, definitely in that one. Don't they have a. Don't they have a character called Evil Lyn or something like that? Like, is that the character speaking of, like, the name Theming thing?

58:06
Case
Oh, yeah. I mean, like, the He Man. The he man villains are all, like, so on the nose.

58:11
Alex
They would have been all in New York. They wouldn't have been able. But it would have been like how he man was. Where it'd be, like, two seconds of, like, apocalypse, and then, like, the rest of it set in, like, New York or Metropolis.

58:24
Case
Oh, yeah, yeah. If that movie had been set as that way. Yeah, it would be. It would be pretty much the movie that we got where it's, like, set in, like, the suburbs, where everyone thinks that, like, alien technology is Japanese because It was the 80s and that was where people were at. But Courtney Cox Pre Friends is one of the main characters in it. Oh, yeah.

58:46
Amanda
I did not know she did anything. Pre Friends. Other than the Bruce Springsteen music video.

58:52
Case
Oh, yeah, it's fun. It's her and then the guy who plays Tom Paris on Star Trek Voyager are the two main human characters in the movie. It's actually a rather fun, cute movie where they clearly run out of budget for the final scene and the special effects just go out the window for the last 20 minutes of the movie. But it's a fun romp. And if you like fourth world kind of stuff, and if you like this kind of stuff, I would say worth checking out. Getting back to the fourth world. So the female fairy fight, I don't have a lot to say other than it's a cool action sequence in both the comic and in the movie.

59:34
Case
It's worth reminding us how dangerous these women are and setting up that Supergirl is supposed to be their new captain, as the plan indicates, like, how dangerous she is. So cutting over to the Superman, going to face directly against Darkseid and Kara. So she's mind controlled already when he arrives. And she's in her outfit of evil, which is, man, Leia ish. The Leia ish. But the shot in the comic that introduces her where she's got ass out, but also, like, you know, twisted in such a way to, like, show her, like, chest at the same time. It's, you know, it's the most egregious cheesecake kind of, like, artistry that you see of the period. In the immediate next panel, she's, like, turned because no one could be in that. In that pose and have, like, a realistic conversation.

01:00:29
Alex
Yeah.

01:00:31
Amanda
There's no defense for that costume choice.

01:00:35
Case
Nope.

01:00:36
Amanda
No.

01:00:37
Alex
There's also, like, a moment like earlier with, like, Artemis too, where, like, she's wearing that costume and literally, like, one of the word panels is, like, on her, like, bare leg, basically. Like. Yeah, that was kind of. Yeah, it's. It's product of its time. Feel like.

01:00:54
Case
Yeah. And again, not. Not strictly trying to yuck the. The yums of it. Like, there was a period where this was the art style that, like, definitely got me to buy a comic book, but it's just, you know, it's a thing. Yeah. So anyway, Kara is, like, completely mind controlled already. And so with Superman trying to, like, take her, she's, like, fights back, being like, no, I. I am here for Darkseid. Dark. And she gets into a fight with Superman. Meanwhile, Batman is on the run from some demon dogs, gets to the hellspore situation, decides to arm them, gets swallowed up by a demon dog, and uses that as a way of breaking into, like, past Darkseid's defenses. Superman, still fighting Supergirl, ends up using a Kryptonite ring to knock her out.

01:01:43
Amanda
Does. Is that, like, something he has in the comics just in his belt, or is this just, like, a one off for this?

01:01:51
Case
So I thought. And I, like, I thought that he broke it out specifically for this. Like, he has the ring from Lex Luthor. Like, Lex Luthor carved off a piece of the Kryptonite from Metallo's chest and made the ring and carried it around for a long time and then got cancer from it and then died. And then his brain was. Or his memories were transferred into a younger clone of himself. But that ring, Superman took and then gave to Bruce Wayne to be the caretaker of. And it's implied that he brings it with him to Apocalypse because they know they're going to be dealing with a potentially brainwashed Kara.

01:02:30
Amanda
Okay.

01:02:31
Alex
Yeah. And just like, a side thing, and this is only because, like, I'm a big Smallville fan, I liked how they depicted when he put the ring on, like, all the veins and stuff that popped out. Because that reminds me of in there, too. It's really cool.

01:02:44
Case
Yeah, it's very body horror.

01:02:45
Alex
Yeah, I like when they do that. More like a visual kind of representation or, like, in my adventures, where, like, crystals start growing out of them, which I think might be kind of like the Silver Age, possibly, or I've seen that somewhere before.

01:03:00
Case
Well, Silver Age, he would just, like, turn green. But. But, yeah, the crystal design in my adventures is a great way of representing, like, the. The poisonous nature of kryptonite.

01:03:11
Alex
Yeah, definitely.

01:03:13
Case
Anyway, so Batman confronts Darkseid and is like, hey, I have the launch codes for your hell spores. And he reads off, like, a code that is way too simple for what actually would have been, like, real encryptions. But either way, it's efficient for the scene. And Darkseid's like, if you weren't just a regular human, I would not call your bluff. But because humans are so goddamn gross, I'm gonna believe you.

01:03:39
Amanda
I think that's great because I feel like out of the trinity, Batman is the one least likely to kill someone. Especially, like, in normal comic continuity. So to me, that was funny.

01:03:52
Case
Yeah. Yeah. It's like, because Batman is so moral of an individual, it just seems so. It's so funny that, like, Darkseid is like, ugh, You're a human. Ugh. You might actually do It.

01:04:06
Alex
You kill your. You kill each other to win. Stuff like that. I'm like, bro, what do you do?

01:04:15
Jmike
I just found it hilarious that, like, he's trying to punch Darkseid and Dark Soul's like, ooh, the pain. And all of a sudden he gets, like, pissed off because he's like, yeah, if you don't listen, I'm gonna blow up the planet. And Dark, like, it's like the switch flips and he's like, you dare?

01:04:28
Alex
Yeah, it's really angry. Loses cool a little bit.

01:04:34
Jmike
That's awesome. And then Batman gets his pushed in.

01:04:41
Amanda
He's just a man. Purple Ray for him.

01:04:46
Alex
Yeah.

01:04:50
Case
He's had so many opportunities to have superpowers, and it's always because the status quo is king that he just doesn't have superpowers.

01:04:58
Alex
Batman, I don't need it.

01:05:01
Amanda
In general, there's this whole no magic in the Bat fam. Unless you are Jason Todd. And, you know, he has a thing with the swords, but yeah. So Batman doesn't do magic. He doesn't do superpowers. He's just. His superpower is being a billionaire.

01:05:17
Alex
It says willpower. Wait, no, it's Green Lantern. It's something like that.

01:05:23
Case
Yeah. Anyway, so because Batman does a Batman Gambit successfully, Darkseid submits and says that he's not going to come after Supergirl. So we then get Kara in recovery, and in the comic, she dons the Supergirl outfit and flies around in it. In the movie, they just go to the Kent farm. Either way, they go to the Kent farm and Darkseid attacks and apparently in the comic, destroys Supergirl with a shot of the Omega beams that she jumps in the way of instead of Clark. The movie is a much more drawn out fight that involves both Supergirl and Superman. Either way, when we got to this point in the story, I just was like, what the fuck is the point of this fight? It's just a fight for the sake of extending the story.

01:06:17
Case
The same way that the first issue was just, oh, we spent this whole time just to get to the conclusion of being like, this is Kara's or else she's my cousin from Krypton. Like. Like Darkseid just showing up at the Kent farm to have, like a punch with everyone and punch for a bit and then. And then, like, not have, like, really the stakes change in a meaningful way for anyone at the end of it all is just like decompression for the sake of being like, oh, fuck, we needed one more issue.

01:06:48
Jmike
Well, I mean, case you get, like, more Kirby stuff, and then Superman throws him into the source wall. What do you mean?

01:06:57
Alex
I preferred the one because, like, in the comic, at least she had like, the whole heroic, like. Like, quote unquote, heroic sacrifice moment. And then, like, he pushed him in there. In the movie, it's much more just like, oh, he's not gonna bother anybody. And obviously we see what happens later. But, like, at first, before I knew that was gonna happen, I'm like, he just went into a boom tube, guys. He can always just come back. What are you talking about? You're not done with him.

01:07:28
Case
Yeah, exactly. Either way, the stakes of it, because this doesn't feel like the book where Darkseid gets taken out of action. For real. This is a big blockbuster y kind of book. But the stakes don't feel, as Amanda pointed out, they don't feel very, like, high in. In this all, like, Darkseid being, like, taken out of action feels like. Well, until you need him again, you know, it doesn't feel like it's a matter that's going to really matter for anything.

01:08:00
Amanda
It just felt like a big, convoluted story of Supergirl's self discovery because, like, that's what it was.

01:08:06
Alex
Yeah.

01:08:07
Amanda
And I feel like there are better ways to tell that story. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but there are better ways to tell that story.

01:08:15
Alex
My Adventures with Superman, season two.

01:08:20
Jmike
Yes. Yeah, that's more Dragon Ball.

01:08:23
Alex
Yeah.

01:08:26
Case
And. And, like, that's, I think, worth bringing up, because while I think that this story is, like, a very decompressed take where, like, some of the characters are a little out of character, enough where it. It irked me, not enough where it ruins the story for me kind of levels. But this story casts a big shadow on the nature of Supergirl going forward. This is the modern reintroduction of the character post crisis, years and years later, to the point where this is almost to the new 52 timeline in terms of the revisions that are going on. But this sets the stage for Supergirl to be older than Clark as a base idea. It sets the stage for her to have hidden darkness within her potentially. Definitely for her to be potentially more powerful, at least in some regards, than Superman.

01:09:16
Jmike
Yeah. Because Batman hints at that in the movie. He starts talking about her cellular destruction thanks to how her light absorption is better than Clark's.

01:09:25
Case
Right. In the comic, they talk about how she's absorbed more light by way of the, like, the sunbeam that was set up in her rocket. Yeah. That was like A whole thing that they teased out for like a year or so in her book, when she actually got one after this one, which was ultimately, like, I think they settled on her being faster than Superman, but him being stronger than her, which is the usual kind of trade off that they do. I remember distinctly, like, a confrontation where he was like, I've always been more powerful than you. I've just let you think you were more powerful than me because some writer had to retcon something at some point about it all. Because we can't have Supergirl being more powerful than Superman. Like, that. That is crazy. Says editorial.

01:10:11
Alex
Yeah, the. Are we. Are we kind of going towards the end? Because I do have a rant for the.

01:10:16
Case
Yeah, yeah, rant. Rant, please.

01:10:19
Alex
So awesome. Anyway, so one of the things that bug me so, like, they come back in the comic. I loved when they came back and, like, the Justice League was over there, like, fixing the house. And, like, you know, you had Martian Manhunter with, like, a hammer and nail, and, like, you know, the Flash was fixing stuff that was so charming. That was great. And in the movie, they kind of come back down and, like, the Kents pull up and they get out, and it's nice to see them, but they look like they came out of the 30s or something. I'm just like, why do they look like that? And then also at the.

01:10:54
Alex
At the very end, whenever he's introducing Supergirl or, like, kind of just talking about her to everyone, you see the Justice League and like, all these different characters in the comic. And I get the whole thing of, like, you'd have to explain who they are or maybe cast voice actors. No, you wouldn't at the very end. Because then you could just. They don't talk at the very end of the book. They're just like. You just draw them in, like, have them in there. And, like, it would be nice, like, to see, like, everyone kind of like just a smile or a nod or something. Would have been great to see.

01:11:23
Case
Yeah, like, for this, like, debutante ball or, like, quinceanera that, like, Supergirl goes through at the end of the story. Like, it would be so fun to. To play that up more in the movie. But in the. In. In the movie, they just, like, have the Amazons that were, like, seen in the sequences already at this point versus the comic actually, like, tries to be like, here's, like, here's all the super teams that were. Were popular at the time and. And, you know, setting up, like, possible stories for, like, what will. What will happen When Supergirl gets her own book.

01:11:52
Alex
Yeah, that was my thing. It's just, like. It was so great just seeing the League show up and help fix the place, too. I'm like. Even though, like, Martian Manhunter, you could probably be doing more than just, like, a hammer and, like, a nail. Like, you have, like, superpowers. But, like, it was charming to see that, I guess. Like, I don't know.

01:12:09
Case
Yeah, it's. It was very nice to see the League helping fix things. Meanwhile, it was very funny seeing the Kent farm fall apart as they show up. So I'm not sure which version of the scene I prefer, but, like, it is definitely, like, a charming element of, like, oh, yeah, the team's all here. We're gonna replace your tractor, and we're gonna fix your farm and your house and all that detail.

01:12:34
Amanda
I think it just kind of emphasized the community that the Justice League is and how Clark isn't alone anymore and that he was never actually alone.

01:12:45
Alex
Yeah, definitely.

01:12:47
Amanda
But you're right. It was funny when the kids walk up and their house just collapses.

01:12:51
Case
Right? Exactly.

01:12:53
Amanda
And then Kara picking up Jonathan.

01:12:56
Alex
Oh, yeah, I did like that. That was cute.

01:12:58
Case
Yeah, I'm a good pounder.

01:13:01
Jmike
Yeah.

01:13:01
Alex
I was like, what? Oh, man.

01:13:06
Jmike
It's kind of funny how, like, even at the end, like, the last fight in the comics, Clark can't stop being a dick because Wonder Woman literally shows up at, like, the last scene to, like, do her little bracer thing and deflect the omega beams, and Clark flings her out of the barn. Now get out of the way. And it throws her away. And I was like, what? Wait, what? What the hell, dude? Like, in the background, you see, like, Batman explaining, like, oh, yeah, we knew this was gonna happen because, like, Darkseid would have never stopped coming for her. So we had to set up, set a trap. And I was like, sure. I mean, it makes sense. Which I feel like is, like, the entire plot of this, the series is, like, sure, it makes sense. It could happen. Cool story, but, like.

01:13:55
Alex
Maybe a little bit more effort, probably. Yeah. Makes sense.

01:13:59
Amanda
Yeah.

01:14:00
Jmike
Still, that. That scene of her disintegrating, I was like, was it really necessary, though? Because, like, she got teleported out. Why they make her disintegrate?

01:14:06
Amanda
I think it was to the full dark side.

01:14:09
Case
Yeah. Yeah.

01:14:10
Jmike
I was like, could it just, like, have her, like, a poof? Or, like. Yeah, like.

01:14:16
Alex
Yeah.

01:14:19
Jmike
What series was that where he blasted Batman back to the Stone Ages?

01:14:22
Case
Oh, that was Final Crisis.

01:14:23
Jmike
Yeah.

01:14:26
Amanda
Also in the book, why did Batman go to the trouble of Collecting. I was assuming it was her ashes. And he's like, this is all I had, all I could get, all I could collect. Is it to sell it to us that she's dead?

01:14:40
Alex
It's a little bit of both. I feel like.

01:14:44
Jmike
The next scene is him walking up on Themyscira, walking through the portal to go see her. Okay.

01:14:50
Amanda
Okay.

01:14:51
Alex
Yeah.

01:14:52
Case
Again, it feels very much like. And then this happens. And then this happens. Writing where she's legitimately dead for those couple panels. And then it's like, oh, never mind. She's actually alive. We fooled you. But the reality of the scene prior to it just doesn't fit the new truth and fit the original truth.

01:15:13
Alex
Yeah, it's kind of like a gotcha moment where it's just like. I mean, like the. The one you took the extra step. The one was enough. Like, just the disintegrating. You didn't have to go the extra step being like, I collected the ashes. Like, I get. Get you. It's like, yeah, it's too much.

01:15:29
Case
Yeah, it's. It's not like Darkseid has, like, spies everywhere that same way. Yeah, it's.

01:15:35
Jmike
What do you mean, Case? Darkseid's dead. He got thrown into the source wall.

01:15:38
Case
Right.

01:15:39
Jmike
He's never. He's never ever coming back. No one comes back from the source wall, Case.

01:15:44
Alex
It's even worse in the movie because he just freezes up. And I'm like, you mean to tell me, like, they're not going to come looking for him?

01:15:49
Amanda
She could have at least sent him to, like, the Phantom Zone, right?

01:15:54
Case
Yeah, like some place. He's just in space.

01:15:58
Amanda
Yeah, he's just chilling. Frozen.

01:16:00
Alex
He's floating through space like Optimus prime in that one Transformers Michael Bay movie. Any who.

01:16:09
Case
All right, so final thoughts, J. Mike, what are yours.

01:16:18
Jmike
Yeah, like you said at the beginning, this is very mid. Like it was again Public Enemies, which is like, oh, man, this a great buddy team up, chemistry storyline. It's great. Oh, and it gets like a couple of steps down. You're like, I mean, it works, but it could have been better. But, I mean, it's a movie.

01:16:37
Case
Yeah, it works. It's just so decompressed. Like, it. It just. They spend too much time on all of it.

01:16:42
Jmike
Yeah, yeah. That. That right there. Yeah, perfectly.

01:16:49
Case
In terms of. Had you read this before, I know you'd seen the movie, but had you read the actual comics beforehand?

01:16:57
Jmike
I read half of. I had never gotten to the end because I was just like, I'll finish this another time. You Know.

01:17:05
Alex
Yeah.

01:17:07
Jmike
And I got to the end and I was like, yeah, I see why I was like, yeah, I'll come back and finish this later. Yeah. This was a tale case. This was a tale. And we can say that we read it now and we can move on.

01:17:21
Alex
We can definitely say that.

01:17:24
Case
All right, Alex, Amanda, do you have final thoughts?

01:17:27
Alex
Sure. You want to go first and then me?

01:17:28
Amanda
If you had to pick one, read the comic instead of watch the movie.

01:17:33
Alex
Yeah, that's basically where I'm at. Oh, sorry.

01:17:36
Amanda
I don't know. It's not the best comic I've read. It's not the worst comic I've read.

01:17:41
Case
It's mid. It's mid.

01:17:44
Amanda
You know, it didn't make me. I didn't get viscerally angry, so that's a plus.

01:17:49
Alex
That happened before. She's referencing a Scott Snyder Cora, the Owls thing. She loves Scott Snyder, but, like, when she had to flip the book one time, she got angry about it because for some reason she didn't like that. She had to turn it upside down and go back in our episodes and check that one out. But so I really like the comic. The movie was good. The, the art style, like, some of the stuff was good. I wish that there was more dialog. It just felt like punch, punch the movie, basically. Yeah. Like I did. I. I prefer the comic. Like, if you're gonna check out one, check out the comic. And hey, great news. There's barely any dialogue in it, so you'll probably be able to breeze through it in about like 30 minutes, depending on how quickly you read.

01:18:30
Alex
But yeah, like, the movie's good too. It's like a companion piece. If you want to check it out. You can check it out just to hear, you know, voices from, like, Batman and Superman, just to hear them together, like for that element of it. But other than that, like, if you missed the movie, you ain't really missing much. To me personally.

01:18:49
Case
That is fair. Yeah. Again, I don't want to be, like infinitely negative about this. It's mid. If this had been a four issue story, I think it would have been just a way tighter, better experience. It's just a little too decompressed. And then the movie does the great sin of making it even more decompressed because they have to fit a 90 minute runtime on what is not 90 minutes of story. It's just not.

01:19:16
Alex
Yeah, this could have been a short.

01:19:18
Amanda
It's the finest. Fine thing. It's just fine, right?

01:19:23
Case
It's fine. There's good repartee between Batman and Superman, the art is good in the comic and they do an interesting job replicating that in the animated movie with a really classic voice acting team. So that's all fine there. It's just too long for the story that we get. It's a decompressed version of the original Supergirl from Krypton story, which was an issue of Superman. And I'll bet you there was a backup story.

01:20:00
Alex
Yeah.

01:20:01
Case
So, yeah. Alex, Amanda, thank you for coming on. Thank you for prompting this conversation by us having our conversation on Public Enemies over on your show. Where can people find you, talk about Night of the Batman. What's your deal? Where can people find you, follow you and just talk about the show?

01:20:19
Alex
Nice. So Night of the Batman, like you mentioned, you can find us on Spotify, itunes. I think we're on a few other platforms. We also are on Instagram if you want to check out our official page. We also have flashbacks. The Flash we watch podcast. It's a episode by episode rewatch of the CW Flash show. We have an episode coming up soon where we're going to do the Vixen animated movie. We're going to try to find the series, but it's not available on streaming literally anywhere. So, like they combined it into a movie. So that's what we're going to review. And then we also have tangential exchange. Me and my friend get drunk and kind of just make each other laugh. And then what means a movie review thing. And then you had a new podcast that you wanted to plug as well.

01:21:04
Amanda
Oh, yeah. My cousin and I recently started doing a Gilmore Girls review podcast. So fun. Yeah, yeah. We're called the Review More Girls. It's reviewmore Dot Girls on Instagram. There's a link to our Spotify in the Instagram bio.

01:21:20
Case
Yep.

01:21:21
Alex
And I edit that one. So, yeah, great stuff.

01:21:23
Case
Yeah. All right. We will have to get links from you for all of that to put in our show notes, but thank you for coming on. Thank you, thank you for plugging your stuff. Thank you for your perspective on this, J Mike. Where can people find you and follow you?

01:21:38
Jmike
Oh, man. You can find me over in bluesky5 bluesky social. I actually posted it earlier. I was very proud of myself.

01:21:46
Case
Yay.

01:21:48
Amanda
I did a thing.

01:21:50
Jmike
That's where I am now. So.

01:21:52
Alex
Awesome. I gotta get on Blue sky more, honestly.

01:21:55
Case
Yeah. As for me, if you want to find me on the socials, I'm also pushing people towards the blue ski. It's just the social that gives me the least ick at the moment. So you can find me there at Caseakin, BSGuy Social or whatever the whole thing is on that one. Asaken you'll find me. Otherwise, the Discord server is a really good place to find me and to actually get J. Mike to respond if you tag him.

01:22:22
Jmike
What are you talking about?

01:22:23
Case
Yeah, you can find a link to our Discord server in the show notes or anywhere. Basically, if you go to certainpov.com, you'll find a link to the server there. Or just message me and I will send it over to you directly because it's a great place that has wonderful conversations and the people who have joined us there are a lot of fun. So check out the Discord Server for Men of Steel for Certain POV in general. All kinds of chats about comics, about movies, about video games. Great, great time over there. Then circle back to certainpov.com where you can find all kinds of great shows on our network. I am going to give a shout out to Books that Burn Right now, which is a wonderful literary analysis show from the perspective of the characters and the trauma that the author puts them through.

01:23:09
Case
So I just want to give that as a shout out. Wonderful show. And then and then circle back for our next episode. But until then, stay Super. Man.

01:23:26
Jmike
Of Sound Steel is a Certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sophia Ricciardi. Our logo is by Chris Batista and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our theme is by Jeff Moonan.

01:23:52
Case
Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors? Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the.

01:23:59
Amanda
Painful action and the plot would remain untouched?

01:24:02
Case
Subscribe to Books that Burn, the Fortnightly Book Review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma. We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions and favorite non traumatic things. Things in the Dark books we love.

01:24:20
Alex
Find us on Spotify, itunes, Google Play.

01:24:23
Case
Or wherever you get your podcasts. CPOV certainpov.com.