Episode 163 - Legends of Dead Earth: Superman: The Man of Steel with Jay McKiernan

This week on Men of Steel, Case and Jmike are joined by Jay McKiernan to explore the Legends of Dead Earth annual for Superman: The Man of Steel from 1996. Written by Kurt Busiek, this issue delivers a sweeping space opera full of big ideas, bold heroism, and some seriously strong artwork to match.

Spoiler alert: we all love this one.

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Men of Steel Full Episode

Originally aired: March 6, 2026

Edited by Sophia Ricciardi

Scored by Gen Moonen

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Notes

Story Overview and Setting

The Legends of Dead Earth Superman Annual delivers a tight, space opera story set far in the future, featuring a new Superman analog named Caleb on the water planet Hydros (04:34).

• Caleb is introduced as a fisherman whose community is attacked by the Empire, triggering his journey with freedom fighters and discovery of his potential powers from absorbing stellar radiation.

• The story takes place substantially further in the future than the Legion of Superheroes, with hints suggesting several thousand years ahead, involving a cyclical rebirth of Superman-like figures.

• The setting and plot borrow heavily from classic sci-fi tropes, especially Star Wars, with Empire-like antagonists and clone troopers, making it easy for readers to engage with familiar themes while exploring a fresh character.

Character and Costume Design

Caleb’s design and costume stand out as a major positive, combining classic Superman elements with a unique space barbarian aesthetic (09:52).

• The costume features a red belt breaking up the silhouette, inspired by Chris Prowse's Legion era designs, which help avoid the “columnar” look typical of Superman’s outfit.

• The only notable design critique was the oversized bracers and a 90s-style hairdo, which some felt clashed with the otherwise sharp look.

• Caleb’s character design matches his personality and setting, with long hair and a rugged vibe fitting the spacefaring, water-world environment, enhancing his appeal as a heroic figure.

Plot Developments and Key Conflicts

The narrative efficiently covers Caleb’s rise and battles against the Empire, culminating in his confrontation with Lex Luthor the 60th (35:00).

• Caleb’s powers develop over time, including space-time warping and remote sensing abilities, which provide a fresh take on traditional Superman powers adapted for a sci-fi setting.

• The Empire’s force, led by a long-lived Lex Luthor using cloned armies and Kryptonian technology, creates a formidable adversary, deepening the story’s stakes and enhancing the space opera feel.

• The story ends on an open note, with Caleb and his love interest Lang expecting a child on a remote planet named Solitude, leaving the final battle unresolved and inviting reader imagination.

Creative Team and Storytelling Quality

The story benefits from the involvement of veteran creators Kurt Busiek, Paul Ryan, and Joe Rubenstein, resulting in a well-crafted and engaging narrative (13:32).

• Busiek’s experience shines through with a concise yet dense script that balances action, character development, and world-building without unnecessary filler.

• The art consistently supports the story’s energy, with Paul Ryan’s layouts and finishes providing clear, dynamic visuals that highlight the vast space battles and intimate character moments.

• The use of water metaphors and first-person narration by Caleb adds depth and a unique voice, enhancing the immersive quality of the story.

Strategic and Thematic Insights

The annual explores themes of legacy, cyclical rebirth, and moral responsibility in a far-future setting, positioning Caleb as both a fighter and a moral center (45:16).

• Caleb’s ethical decision to protect a newly discovered Krypton-like world instead of exploiting it for military gain underscores his role as a leader with a strong moral compass.

• The story embraces the idea of multiple Superman-origin planets, enriching the DC Universe’s multiverse concept and allowing fresh storytelling avenues.

• The Empire’s conquest and use of cloned soldiers and stolen technology reflect classic villain archetypes, reinforcing the narrative’s deliberate homage to space opera traditions while keeping the tone accessible.

Audience Reception and Legacy Potential

Hosts expressed high regard for this annual, considering it one of the best in the Legends of Dead Earth line due to its clear storytelling, strong art, and compelling character (49:10).

• The story’s straightforward approach and well-paced plot make it highly recommended and enjoyable even for readers less familiar with extended Superman lore.

• Despite its quality, Caleb’s story appears to be a one-off with no known follow-ups, though the hosts expressed hope that the character and concept could be expanded in future multiverse or alternate universe tales.

• The annual’s blend of familiar sci-fi elements with a fresh Superman iteration creates potential for inspiring new stories that merge classic superhero themes with space opera drama.

Transcription

00:00
Jay
So I gotta call out one more thing in this book, which is a. Which is a bizarre thing to call out, but something that really stood out. You get so used to, like, female objectification in comic books, and this is male objectification at its absolute finest. So, like, you know, I kind of. I had. As I was reading this, the joke that was in my head was like, this is a comic for the ladies. Because he is a piece of meat for 40 pages. Like, there are so many shots of just, there's his ass and there's this and it's. And. And like, no other character is treated that way. And I was kind of like, all right, that's an interesting take on this as.

01:07
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, J. Mike Falson.

01:15
Jmike
That's me. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

01:18
Case
Yeah, welcome back indeed. We are back in the future. We are still in the time of the Dead Earth because we are still reviewing the Legends of Dead Earth annuals. And so for today, we're talking about the. The man of Steel annual. And to have that convers, we are joined by Jay McKiernan.

01:38
Jay
Hi, thanks for having me, Jay.

01:40
Case
Welcome back to the show.

01:42
Jay
Glad to be here. It's always a blast. Sorry I don't have as energetic of a greeting as J. Mike does.

01:46
Jmike
I'm trying my best, working through some stuff.

01:49
Jay
I think he got more caffeine in his system than I did. Or are we on the Red Bull? No, it's.

01:58
Case
Well, whatever it is, I desperately am going to be in need of it soon because we are recording this, listeners, just prior to me having yet another child and going into sleep paralysis. That's not the right word.

02:12
Jmike
Sleep. That's close.

02:14
Case
Sleep drought is coming upon us. But. But we are here before that, on the precipice of that, having a conversation about a really fun annual. So, Jay, we've been talking about these Legends of Dead Earth annuals, and were talking off, Mike, that you were reading Batman and then that Legion was stuff that you would have seen more recently.

02:34
Jay
Yeah, I was thinking of all the ones that I've read, so the Batman ones. And I actually missed one before we got on air, which was the Starman Legends of Dead Earth, which was. I remember being really good and I know I've probably read that a couple times because I reread Starman. I don't know, probably once every five years just to go back and enjoy. But yeah, I've never read any of these Superman books. I know the concept that we're far in the future and we've got sort of elements of the characters, but this was all brand new for me.

03:03
Case
Yeah, this one actually probably is the closest that we get to, like, a proper date, in that we get an age for a character, although it's still one that is. It's measured in generations, not in specific. So it's still, you know, not a precise date. But we will get into some of that information, because I know, J. Mike, you've been wondering how far exactly some of these stories are taking place.

03:25
Jmike
Well, I had questions because I was like, I know Legion takes part in, like, the far future. And you were like, it's way past that. And I was like, how far past that? It was like, Legion is, like, really far out there.

03:38
Case
Legion's not really far out there. Legion's a thousand years in the future.

03:41
Jmike
It's really far out there.

03:43
Case
I mean, yes, it's the difference of, like, Old English to Middle English break, like in their. It's the Norman Conquest divide right there. But it is. It's not. It's not like, that far in the future versus this is substantially further in the future. Crazy amounts. And actually, why don't we use this as a good excuse to fill in the listeners on what basically the series is about by doing our favorite little segment on the show, which is J. Mike explains roughly what we're reading today.

04:20
Jmike
Okay. Okay, cool. So for this episode, we read about a civilization that started on this planet called Hydros. Right, Hydros. And unbeknownst to them, there was a prophecy, almost like a certain Saiyan prophecy from another series, where there could rise from their people a certain super person, if the conditions were met properly. And this takes place right as we meet the first character or the main character, what's his name? Caleb. Caleb. Yeah, Caleb. Yeah, Caleb with the K, where he's out fishing. His little fishing squad, slash town, slash community, gets bombarded and gassed by the Empire, and he is rescued by a group of freedom fighters, one in particular, whose name is Lang, thought they're gonna call. I thought they would straight call her Lana Lang, but they didn't. And I was like, curse them. It was right there.

05:27
Jmike
But it leads into the Resistance, where they tell him about his prophetic gifts that he could obtain by absorbing all this radiation. What do they call it? It's like solar radiation. What kind of radiation? They call it.

05:37
Case
They say stellar radiation.

05:38
Jmike
Stellar radiation? Yeah, stellar radiation. I was like, oh, Whatever, but he absorbs all the stellar radiation. He becomes their Superman, basically. He gets the suit, which doesn't look that bad, and he fights the legions of Empire drones that are sending him. Gets his butt kicked at first, but eventually he gets better and better. They figure out that there's this big tournament coming up on the. On the Empire homeworld where they infiltrate and he lets himself get captured to figure out who the big bad is. And wouldn't you know it? It's freaking Lex Luthor. Of course it is. Was it lex, like 67 or something like that, he called himself, but he was the one pulling the strings behind the scenes. He knew about, like, the Prophet.

06:24
Jmike
He made the prophecy, and he was looking to bring him in to use his cells to make a Superman clone for himself to live even further in conquest, even more. And I think that's almost without spoiling the end. Should I spoil the end too, or.

06:40
Jay
I mean, go ahead.

06:41
Case
You've covered, like, in greater detail than I expected.

06:44
Jmike
Well, I mean, this is a good one. I really like this. And I was like, oh, this is pretty awesome. But yeah, like, they. They beat him back. They blow up his. His little clone. The war goes on. They come to the final battle. Turns out he and Lang have a child. And they kind of leave that obscure about how that's going to end. And they go on to fight the final battle. I'm guessing they win because they don't really say it in the comment.

07:07
Jay
Yeah, that was one of the most interesting parts about this annual. There's no ending.

07:13
Jmike
Yeah, it's very. They leave it hanging right there. And I was like, oh, I thought we're gonna get more than that. But okay, the other. The other ones we've had so far have an ending. They just kind of like, tell you how everything's gonna go forward, and you're like, all right, cool. This is this, and we're gonna move on to the next one. This one's kind of like, it's up to your imagination.

07:29
Case
I mean, it's very Empire Strikes Back. Like, in terms of where we're finishing up things. Like, they. They are explicitly taking time to recoup and. And. And breed at the end of it all. And they. They have this moment and it. It pay. It's a payoff of a story or beat earlier in. In the whole thing. But. But yeah, the final fight is still in front of them. Like, they. They still have this whole thing. Yeah, that. That's a really good synop. Saves us going beat by beat, which I. I think we should still do just because it's not that long of a story. You cut, you covered everything that we're gonna cover on this one, so that's fantastic.

08:10
Case
The only thing I'll say is that for listeners who have not heard the previous two episodes, this is part of a line of annuals set in a period after Earth is dead, so way past the time of the Legion of Superheroes. And in this period, we have various either retellings or reimaginings of characters happening. And this is one that is a reimagining of a character where the cyclical nature of time has reproduced to Superman. And I think it's actually really cool because they almost take, like, a clinical nature to it, and that becomes a story beat throughout this whole thing.

08:49
Jmike
I mean, it feels like Frieza killing all the Saiyans.

08:54
Case
Oh, for sure. For sure. Yeah.

08:56
Jmike
That sounds like it's kind of like a Saiyan prophecy going on here. Oh, no.

09:00
Case
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, like, we'll get into that in a second. There's one thing I want to call out, which is that might as well just start with the COVID And I just want to note that J. Mike, as you said, costume is pretty good. I really like the costume in this book.

09:17
Jay
Yeah.

09:18
Jmike
Looks better than the other costume with the bug guy.

09:22
Case
Well, that was just a Superman costume.

09:24
Jmike
It looks way better. This one is like, oh, Asia uses more often.

09:29
Case
Oh, our Superman character is more conventionally handsome, and therefore he's better than the other.

09:33
Jmike
I just like the costume better.

09:36
Case
No, I, I rather, I do rather like this. I, I, I am a sucker for sinner stripe design, which is very much because I got into comics when Legion of Superheroes during the reboot era was really popular. And so, you know, yeah, those Chris.

09:49
Jay
Prowse designs just, they just keep using them and using them. They work really well.

09:53
Case
They're so good. And this is reminiscent of that. The thing about a Superman costume going with the stripe design is that you need something to sort of break up at the waist for Superman. Otherwise, he looks too much like a column. And this does a good job with that sort of, like, red belt component to it. I really like it. I, I think that the only thing I'm not a huge fan of is the, like, the bracers that he wears,

10:18
Jmike
Like, space ghost bracers.

10:19
Case
Ye. He is a space character, and so, like, it's sort of fine because he's a space character if he was more of a traditional Superman character. Even though, like, I'm A huge fan of like the supreme costume, which has like identical bracers. Like, I, I think that I would probably reduce them in size slightly, but that's the only detail that jumps out at me. And like, even now I'm talking myself out of it being like. But I do really like those supreme bracers. Also a Chris Browse design.

10:48
Jay
But I think it's because supreme leaned into making them so big that they're like, you either have to go like gigantic or you have to go like it. And that's why it works, I think, in the supreme design because it's so over the top that it.

11:02
Case
He's also faceless. So. Yeah.

11:05
Jmike
Yeah.

11:07
Case
Regardless, I, I really like the look of this character. Caleb is just an awesome looking one. And I, it like this cover caught my eye for a long time because it was just like one of those scenarios of like when I was like, when this comic came out, I couldn't afford every comic that was on the newsstand. So like I, it was one that I, I wanted and I like coveted for like many weeks before I was like, finally able to convince my parents, like, buy it for me. So like, it was one that I, I'm glad that like, I remember like the, the COVID jumping out at me and it being very cool and reading it in the grocery store before buy it.

11:46
Jay
I love when you tell those stories and just make me feel old. Like, I remember when this came out and it was like, you know, I had a job and I, I could buy whatever company I wanted.

11:56
Case
I know, I know.

11:57
Jay
Like, I'm an old man and I, I just love those. But love those bits. Yeah, I, I gotta be honest, the only thing I didn't like about the costume design is the 90s hair. I think that was really the only thing that got me. It was just. There's just those moments where it just feels, you know, I mean, the book really feels like the decade it was created in and I think that's the one. But I agree with you. I think the rest of it looks very sharp. At least there's no big pockets anywhere. Which would be the other 90s thing.

12:23
Jmike
You'd look for, right?

12:24
Case
I, I will also say that again, there's a difference between this as Caleb's look versus as a Superman look. Again, I probably, if it was for Superman proper, I would say, yeah, short hair. But for Caleb, who is this like space barbarian character, like works, you know, like, he's got the swashbuckling characteristic to him. His Cape has that, you know, because it's like a lapel pin. It doesn't.

12:47
Jmike
Yeah.

12:47
Case
Like, it, you know, it feels like a little bit more out of Star Wars. Yeah.

12:52
Jay
Oh, no. I'm being incredibly nitpicky. I'm sorry.

12:54
Case
Yeah, I'm totally with you on this.

12:56
Jay
I'll just admit that it's like when he gets the ponytail at certain points I'm just like, no, please don't. And it might have been. It might because I had one and then I just don't want to ever see it again. Sorry to admit that to all of the listener. You know, everybody had a bad haircut when they were a kid.

13:14
Case
Oh, my God. Now I need to see a picture at some point. But.

13:16
Jay
But anyway, do not exist.

13:18
Case
At least it's not the haircut that he's rocking at the beginning of the book.

13:21
Jmike
Oh, the two braids.

13:22
Case
Yeah, he's got this very weird Padawan style that he's rocking as we open and he. Yeah, J. Mike, as you said, it's on the planet Hydros, which I dig as a concept.

13:32
Jay
He.

13:33
Case
He uses a lot of water metaphors throughout the entire book. And I find that, like, just as, like a nice. Like, here's a cool detail. Like, we haven't mentioned the team that did this book. This is written by Kurt Pic with Paul Ryan doing layouts and Joe Rubenstein doing finishes. So it's a solid. Like, it's got good credentials going into this one.

13:56
Jay
Oh, definitely. Yeah. Like, this is, I mean, one of my biggest criticisms about a lot of these big annual crossovers is it. It'll be like either creators you've never heard of or creators who are, I mean, I hate to say past their prime, but, like, this is the only work they could get. Or it's a brand new person who's kind of learning on the job. We have three really experienced pros on this. Like, this is, I think, a year or two after Marvel's and Astro City is hit. So this is Kurt Busiak at his. Like, he's at the peak doing this, you know, so. So, yeah, like, this isn't. This isn't. Hey, we just threw. Threw three names together and you can see it every moment. And I'm so glad, Case, that you called out the whole. It's a.

14:38
Jay
It's a water planet and they keep using kind of water metaphors and he's using, you know, like, he's. He's calling the bad guys sharks and he's. He's talking about swimming in space. Like that was a great touch. Like I loved that. You know, busy added that to the story.

14:54
Case
Yeah, like you can like so the book is told in a first person perspective. It's being narrated by Caleb who describes in detail his sort of his last days before what he calls first predators. But yeah, like the. Just a force of imperial troops that like come in and like war the world style, like eradicates the people. And I say that specifically because they use like laser beams and gas attacks. So it's like very reminiscent in that regard. And then we see and like this should be no surprise to anyone that this is a Lex Luthor plot when we see the armors of these guys. So for one thing this is like Lex Lut LX, which I. In the story. It's the 60th. I haven't actually bothered to look it up and I don't remember my Roman numerals.

15:40
Jay
Was the 60th. Yeah, yeah.

15:43
Case
So like that is just one of the like. So it's like super on the nose. Like it looks like the Lex Luthor power armors, but like a stormtrooper version of it. J Mike, I forget if you said this on the call or before, but yes, this is incredibly Star wars. Like they're. This is a big old space opera. But you know what, the hydros thing, it's a unique detail. It gives like really good character beats. And like, yeah, it's the opposite of a desert planet. But in this case, but in this case we actually have a character who like really like leans into like the language of it all. And I think that's a, a good writing tool for making us care about this guy.

16:22
Jmike
Okay, so first I'm just noticing the power armor colors. I completely like. It was like I glossed over that. Now I'm like, oh yeah, that was a huge red flag. I was like, oh, this looks pretty cool. I was looking at the spaceship and I was looking like they're, they're walking underwater. And I was like, oh, okay. But yeah, I'm just picking up that they were wearing purple and green power armor and Alex is on their chest. Like,

16:47
Case
Yep. I mean like I have the benefit of having read this 25, 30 years ago when it came out in the first place. 30 years ago, right. This is 96. Jesus, 30 years ago. So I knew that it was Lex Luthor from the standpoint of I had read the story before. I don't remember I don't want to be like, oh, I definitely knew off the top of my head. But they're not subtle.

17:17
Jmike
I was like, oh, wait, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I can't believe I missed that. But I was so enraptured by the rest of the story.

17:24
Jay
Yeah, don't feel bad. I missed that as well. I was just too enraptured by the Klingon spaceships in the background.

17:31
Case
That's true. Yeah.

17:33
Jay
Yeah, I think, you know, your eyes go to where they go. Right. And if you're not looking for the clues, then. And in this case, yeah, it's about as subtle as a smack to the nose, but such is life.

17:46
Case
But yeah, so this guy Caleb flees and is he. He approaches a group that are there to find survivors and he is the only one that they have successfully found. You know, like the fact that he's able to trust them in any way is very shocking. Like he doesn't at first, until they get attacked by the people. It's just there's like a meet cute quality to it all. Like. Like the fact that the first person who approaches him is Lang, who is set up to be his love interest. Like, you know, again, there's some very Star wars kind of things here. And like, the cute quality of it is part of that Star wars thing. And so he gets the chance to have Caleb be like a hero before he actually gets any powers or anything.

18:32
Case
He, like, he saves Lang from these Imperial troopers getting shot in the process, but making it to like, their people and then being brought on their ship. And then this is the scene that I really remember him explaining the stellar radiation because I think it's the first time that I either knew what the word stellar meant or where I knew. I distinctly remember knowing that the synonym that they were going for and feeling smart. I can't remember if this is how I found out a word or if I just knew the word and I felt smart, but either way, yeah, it's just a synonym for solar radiation because solar radiation specifically refers to our star, which is Sol, but stellar radiation is any star. And I dig the similarities and differences that Caleb has with Superman.

19:20
Case
Like they established that he is a solar battery and that his circumstances were extremely similar to Krypton, which also means that they were extremely similar to Daxam. And this is a thing that I love about the DC Universe, which is the idea that there's just like random planets of Superman out there. And I like that they're similar, but there's, like, enough difference where it's just like, okay, yeah, like, he can shoot heat beams out of his hands, too. Like, he.

19:46
Jmike
He.

19:47
Case
The way they describe the energy being, like, residing within him and then he sort of, like, pulls it out actually made me think, really a lot of Ultra Boy, specifically the way that he's described having his powers in Five Years later, where it's like a passive power that he then, like, diverts to different aspects of his abilities and so forth, obviously without that restriction. But, like, you know, combine that with, like, the long brown hair. Like, he certainly, like, is an Ultra Boy kind of character.

20:11
Jay
Yeah, there is a lot of Ultra Boy in here as well, especially with the different powers. And that's a great call out. But he does kind of. He has that look. He very much has the Jonah look. So. And I mean, I guess if you wanted to make the full leap of space whale and water planet. And, I mean, this is why I'm here to pull up obscure Legion stuff. All right. Yeah, I like the fact that it wasn't just Superman's powers. Like, I thought it was great that they did something different. And. And, yeah, I agree. Case. Like having these planets of people who, if you take them off the planet, they're suddenly superpowered, like Krypton, like Daxum. It would be really fun for the Legion of. Or not the Legion. Sorry, for DC Comics to play with that a little bit more.

20:51
Jay
Like, if we have other planets that are kind of the same, it's a really cool thing to have in there. Have in your universe.

20:58
Case
Yeah. Grant Morrison, in their JLA run, like, established that Earth was supposed to, at one point, produce, like, super beings like Superman, but that the White Martians manipulated our DNA, so actually prevented us from having that. And I like to think that Earth was just another world, just like Daxum or Krypton, but we had the benefit of the yellow sun and were robbed of that potential.

21:21
Jay
Well, I guess you could make that argument of they've already kind of done it. Like, you've got the Brawlians, you've got the. I'm sorry, I'm going to get fully into the Legion. Weeds.

21:29
Case
Go for it.

21:29
Jay
Yeah, but you have all the, like. I mean, you have all those characters who show up on their own planet and they can control heat or. Sorry, control the cold or control, you know, or magnetic. You know, can do magnetism or telepathy. So, I mean, it is kind of built into the genetics. So the. The White Martian thing's a nice. A nice twist. Yeah, it. I mean, it would have been nice to see him maybe do a little more water related powers, but I can't complain that much.

21:54
Jmike
Yeah, yeah.

21:55
Case
You mean for Caleb? Specifically for Caleb.

21:58
Jay
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

21:59
Case
I mean, like, I think the goal was like, keep it Superman, but like, it's a little bit spacier. Like he's got the, like Starfield when he flies and just like a little bit more energy. Blasty, kind of just feels more like just the modern superheroes of the day. Like, like Mr. Majestic has like the same sort of like, oh, I have energy blasts and for my hands, kind of generic abilities and sort of like, oh, I can extend my force field around things. Is just table stakes for like, the more. The more science fiction E versions of Superman power sets, like going back to like Miracle Man.

22:32
Jay
Yeah. And it also just, it builds that familiarity for the reader. Right. Like, you don't have to. There's not a lot of. I don't want to say there's not a lot of heavy lifting in a negative aspect, but like, you see this and you understand it immediately because you've seen all of this before. And I think that's what they were going for. Like, they weren't. They weren't reinventing the wheel. They were. Here's a Superman analog. Here's a story. You see the, you know, the. The sparkly field when they fly. You can reference probably three or four other characters, but that immediately connects.

23:01
Case
Yeah, yeah. So the story. I just need to emphasize this story is so fucking tight, like, in terms of like page count to like actual events, because we get a goddamn flashback explaining, like, what 90s DCU was like over the course of a page that does a sufficient job with like two main panels and then just spaceships doing energy blasts.

23:22
Jmike
You sound like it's a bad thing.

23:23
Jay
Yeah, well, yeah. And I did quite like the flashback they made. The DC heroes. You knew who they were, but they had darkened them enough. So it was kind of like. It was more of a reference of this is so far in the future. So we don't know exactly what they looked like or exactly who they are. Just those little touches where you're like, okay, this is giving us some distance or giving us some time, or I'm just reading too much into it.

23:48
Jmike
I don't know.

23:50
Case
I would be surprised if that's a note because there's definitely a shadowy thing going on for the characters. I wouldn't say they're quite as much in silhouette as I would want. Want if I Were like, if I were giving that note, but. But I'm not saying, like, it could be anything with the. With the art in terms of, like, actually achieving that effect. And they. There certainly is a shadow going across them, like, a very distinct one.

24:11
Jay
And I wonder if this is, like. This is like, heavy inks for Joe Rubenstein, not heavy inks for, you know, say, Larry Mastead. So, like, it's heavy for them, but it's not heavy compared to other anchors at the time.

24:25
Jmike
Right?

24:25
Case
Yeah, it's not.

24:26
Jay
His work is normally really clean. Right. So.

24:29
Case
Yeah, yeah. But. But. So we get. So Caleb basically gets a rundown of. Of the mythology of the DCU and being informed that his world matched the circumstances of Krypton. And. And thus they think that he would manifest superpowers. And that's why he's healing from an attack against him that left Lang injured. And so they.

24:50
Jmike
They.

24:51
Case
We get a quick montage of all of his powers manifesting. We get a cool scene of him just, like, testing it out in space, where he talks about how it's like swimming in the seas of the ocean. And this is the first time that he comes in contact with the imperial spaceships. And we get the establishment of him being tough, but not tough enough to face, like, a fleet of spaceships by himself. Like, it's indicated that he's getting shot with, like, red solar radiation. At least the lasers are red. But even if it's not, like, this is why I like Superboy in the Legion of Superheroes timeline. Because, like, once you introduce spaceships and stuff, like, Superman's powers aren't actually that, like, scale. Like, aren't that crazy of a scale.

25:32
Case
Like, you could believe that he could take a hit from a spaceship and be like, oh, I'm hurt. I need to not do that again. And so we get to have him take a. Take a bunch of hits. Still be pretty effective, tearing into, like, the holes of the ship and so forth. Like, he. He is a Superman. Like, this is a certainly effective thing, but it's just not an instant win in any circumstance. And so he ends up limping back to his own ship. Says a stranded Mariner seeks sanctuary before he passes out.

26:03
Jmike
Yeah.

26:04
Jay
And also, if he had easily defeated them all, where does the story go from there? Right? So you have to have this initial, hey, I'm not as good as I think I am. And it's, you know, it's just standard chapter two of a story like this, where he gets his butt kicked and learns from it, which leads him to move forward and helps him to grow as a character as we continue on.

26:27
Case
Yeah, yeah. It's like I said, very tight storytelling and aided by the fact that we're, we can speed through it because we're getting Caleb's inner monologue. So when he's approached and we get the Morpheus like, are you in or are you out kind of scene, he's like, no, I'm in. And we see him presumably getting solar dipped there at least from my perspective. Or it could be a spaceship exploding that he just flew through.

26:53
Jmike
I was curious about that too. I was like, it could be a solar dip. It looked like it was. But don't you say it could be an explosion?

27:02
Case
Yeah, I assume solar dip because of the line as I stored more stellar power and became more proficient at using it. But he also says that he's like waging war against the Empire either way. We, we get local populations responding to him and we get him actually like we get a look up in the sky and we see him flying in the Superman outfit finally. Which again is a good looking outfit. Just I really like it.

27:27
Jmike
Belt looks a little weird though. I think about it. The belt buckle just out there in the open by itself. I'm nitpicking.

27:35
Case
Yeah, yeah. Again. But, but it's nice to actually see in the actual story because we're in chapter three now and we still hadn't actually seen that up until this point. But we see Superman be a, a symbol that actually like causes people to rise up. So we get like flashes of these various imperial worlds resisting. Meanwhile, he engages in these battles. Yeah. Just continues to be an essential part of their strategy because he's the only thing they have that can equal like several warships by himself. And his relationship with Lang gets closer and closer.

28:12
Jay
Yeah. We have the dramatic hand holding which is always the first step in a comic book. Oh, I've touched your hand. Da da. Because when you're, I think when you're a 12 year old reading this, that is the, that's the height of romance. So. Well, at least when I was 12,

28:28
Case
I was going to say like the handhold is like usually like a good move or it's like, are we cool? We're cool. All right.

28:36
Jay
It's all good. So. And there's only one jealous person who's watching all of this, but.

28:41
Jmike
Right. Yeah.

28:42
Jay
Because we have that nice little subplot as well.

28:44
Case
Yeah. Again, super dense story like that. We're getting Those kind of elements in there with, like, these interpersonal dramas. But. But yeah, we. We move on to chapter four where we're introduced to Metropole, which is obviously a Metropolitan Metropolis reference. It is a world city. It's not Earth. It's not Earth taken over to be a city. Because we referenced the fact that Earth is definitely dead in this story. We have Caleb and his. His cohorts coming onto the planet to participate. Well, for Caleb specifically to participate in this contest that is officially for people to join the ranks of the Imperial Guard. The others have their own, like, stealth mission that they go on. Caleb is using a little bit of his superpowers to. To do it, which I. I find that the amount of precision that he has in that very cool.

29:29
Case
Again, like, the fact that it's like an energy that he can, like, focus into his areas or his body, I think is a really cool detail. Like, like I said, it kind of makes me think of Ultra Boy. It also kind of makes me think of, like, the new Super Hyphen man, the. The Chinese Superman character who could, like, focus his, like, his like, chi into different aspects of him at first and then like, fully into himself. Jmaic, we should read that series soon.

29:55
Jmike
Add it to the list.

29:56
Case
I know, I know.

29:59
Jmike
Yeah.

29:59
Jay
And. And I love the fact that there's even little throwaways that are, again, more references to Superman. Like the three. I don't want to say humans because they're all aliens. Their undercover is journalists. Right. We get another super, you know, Superman reference there. And I was going to ask this because I didn't know if this was a reference. Is the fact that he's number 1700 in the competition. Does that mean anything?

30:23
Case
That's a good question. I. It doesn't ring any bell for me. It would be like, if it would be like 1938 or something would. Would ring. Would stand out to me or something like that. But thank you for mentioning the journalist because that actually, I remember reading that and being like, oh, that's a nice detail. So that's a really good one. Let's see. So the. The. Caleb continues to, like, do well in these. In these competitions until apparently someone gets suspicious and they just shoot him. And it doesn't kill him, but it does cause him to, like, lurch and he, like, pulls the arm off a robot that he's fighting. And it's a very Magnus robot fighter scene right there.

31:02
Case
Like, I swear to God, it like, just looks like a cover from it, which I don't know what Kurt Busick's relationship with Jim Shooter is at this point, but, like, since Shooter's responsible for the valiant era of comics, I don't know, it just is a shot that looks like straight out of that.

31:17
Jay
Yeah. And I mean, and it's one of those things where you don't really care that it doesn't make any sense, like, why the laser came out of nowhere. But it's just. It's getting us to the next point of the story. And, like, you say, like, with the density, you don't have time to stop to figure it out. You just go to the next page and you're like, okay. And then he's been captured. The only thing that kind of threw me was why the people who were there didn't. I'm kind of jumping ahead why they were surprised he was getting captured because it's revealed later, this was the plan. Right. But, you know, Lang is surprised, and you'd kind of think she would know this is what was coming.

31:51
Case
Yeah, that is surprising. I. I like them being surprised that he got shot isn't.

31:56
Jay
Nope.

31:56
Case
Isn't weird. But. Yeah, like. Like, you could read it that Lang is specifically being like, oh, we don't. You don't have to do this. You can still get away. But then the. The other guy whose name I forget.

32:08
Jmike
Is, like, Corbin or something. I forget Corin.

32:13
Case
Corrin sounds right. But. But yeah, he's like. But he's not going to. You know, as if. It's like, here's like. Like he should be saying, but that's not the plan.

32:22
Jmike
Yeah.

32:22
Jay
Yeah. And I was gonna ask. So is who is Corin the reference to? Because, like, Lang is obviously Lana and Lois and Ambrose is obviously Perry White. But, like, who's he?

32:36
Case
Like, you know, if we're going off of just, like, positions, then. Then it would be like the Jimmy.

32:40
Jmike
I was gonna say that, but it doesn't feel like it.

32:42
Case
You're right. Exactly. Like, maybe a little bit of a Pete Ross, but Peter or like, Steve Lumbar.

32:47
Jmike
I was gonna say Lombard.

32:48
Case
Right. Yeah. Like, yeah, maybe, but. But it really just feels like here's just a natural character to have in this whole situation, and not all of it has to be like, one to one. But I'm not saying it's not. I just don't know what it is, if it is a reference.

33:04
Jay
Yeah, I always. As I was reading this, I was just assuming, like, it's busy. He's probably overthought every one of these choices to put in references. So. And. And I try and, like, the two of you know far more about Superman than I do, so that's why I had a bunch of questions, like, how about this guy? How about this guy? Because I'm just always assuming that's there. But I think you're right. It might just be they needed, you know, the person who is against him or the person who was, I wouldn't want to say against just the. He, he needed to have a foil on his team, I think.

33:34
Case
But, but anyway, so Caleb gets. Yeah, they, like, put these manacles on him that, like, blast him also with red energy, which makes me, again, think that it's red solar radiation.

33:47
Jmike
I mean, it would have to be, right, because, you know, the person who's behind the scenes knows everything about him. Right.

33:54
Case
And he says explicitly, cable's weakening me. Got to break before he gets knocked out. So, so, yeah, and he is brought into the throne room, and it's like, immediately, like, obvious, like, what is the situation? Because we see multiple headshots of Lex Luthor, and he's like, I just keep seeing the same person, just different face. Like, the same face after face, all cruel and then rolls in accompanied by a bunch of, like, I'm guessing alien, but potentially genetically engineered. Like clone troopers, big bruiser kind of ones that. Mostly because the white harness on, like, pink skin makes me think of Parasite, but, like, that definitely. It's definitely not like, it's just, I think they also have forearms, so, like, I, I, they don't look like any specific thing out of the D.C. pantheon. They just look like cool monster designs.

34:45
Case
Anyway, so this is Lex Luthor, and specifically lex Luthor the 60th. So if we want to do the math on that one, like, if, if you say a generation is like, we could do easy math and say it's like 50 years, then that's what, like 30, 000 years from now?

35:00
Jay
I think you want to try that math.

35:05
Jmike
Like, 30, 000.

35:07
Jay
It's late at night, and it's like, I, I, I don't think that maths. That's math enough for me. I said I thought 3,000 years. Am I wrong? Should I just shut up and I'm, I made a bad.

35:19
Case
No, you're right. You're, you're 3,000. I was, I was adding a zero, so I was trying to be generous on that one. Yes, I added a zero on that one because the math was not mathing for me.

35:28
Jay
So, see, I went with a hundred years, a generation And I just. Because it would be. That was even easier. I'm like, right, 6,000 years. I don't have to think. So it's because I figured Luther would have figured out how to stretch his far longer than a person would. But it's. Regardless, it's past the Legion. It's way past everything.

35:47
Jmike
So there's no Legion at this point?

35:51
Jay
Well, not in this part of the universe, no. But, But. But in Legends of Dead Earth, Legion of Superheroes, yeah, there's something going on. And.

36:02
Jmike
Well, I just figured, like, the Legion, like, it's more of, like, an idea than, like, an actual thing. So, like, you would figure, like, they would still have people carrying on the Legion, even up to this point. Interesting.

36:14
Jay
And they do.

36:16
Case
Don't make more work for us. We're just doing the Superman books,

36:21
Jay
So it's okay. So we'll get back to the story. Yeah, I love the fact that he had green lantern and Dr. Fate's helm in there. That was a nice little touch. And I think it's the Starman power rod in the background, but it's not well defined. But, yeah, just little things like that.

36:41
Case
Where do you see the Starman power up?

36:43
Jay
Oh, sorry. Like, pan. So I'm on. What page is it? Page 27, panel 2. Right by his hand. I is. Am I. Is that kind of looks like the power again? Like, I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm reaching tremendously to try to get these references, because as I said before, like, I'm just assuming they're always there. So I'm looking at these panels going, okay, what did I miss?

37:02
Case
What did.

37:02
Jay
What did they throw in?

37:03
Case
I don't see which one that you're looking at, but that's okay.

37:06
Jmike
But.

37:07
Case
But wouldn't be surprised, because they do. It is definitely Fate and Green Lantern.

37:11
Jmike
Yeah, I think it fates him. I really want to know that.

37:15
Case
Well, how did Earth die? We don't know. Like, that's sort of the big question there. But Luthor reveals that with the. With the fall of Earth, he ransacked its corpse. Basically, like any super science that was on the planet, he found and use that as a basis to start an empire. And so he goes forward and has conquered everything. But he says there was only one thing missing, and it was you. Because he's mistaking Caleb for the original Superman because he's crazy and old and, like, super old. But. But, like, he's, like, at the end of the lifespan of this body, which, Jay, I agree with you, has definitely been extended in it, I was, you know, I was doing. I was trying to do simple math and then, like, still fucked it up.

37:58
Jay
I just did simpler math. What's the easiest way I can do this? Times one.

38:04
Jmike
There we go.

38:05
Jay
That makes my life easier.

38:08
Case
Anyway. But yes, I agree that he definitely. Because he's got, like, cybernetics things going on that look like. That make him really look like the ultra humanite in that regard, with a little bit of brainiac because he's got like, the three dots going there. But anyway, we see that he's got a cloned body that is the Lex Luthor Jr. Look. The long flowing red hair and a goatee, which is just fun. Fun to see. And it looks like he's being aided by, like, Kryptonian robots, by the way, which is. Is super interesting and makes sense that he's just like, he's picked clean all the technology of the. Of the world.

38:43
Case
But while he sort of is gloating about the whole situation, noting that, like, now with your genetic profile, I'll be able to create even more awesome clones because, like, all my shock troopers are. Are actually clone troopers, which this is like. Like we've been saying, this is very Star Wars. This is very Star wars before the prequels came out. Yeah, this is 96. The. Yeah, the prequels didn't start dropping until 98. Now that said, all the nerds knew about the Clone wars. So, like, we all. We all knew about, like, there was supposed to be a big clone thing that happened right before the Star wars movies. So it's not like this wasn't like, there's a lot of Star Wars. This could still be more Star wars, but. But this wasn't explicitly like, the clone army of the.

39:27
Case
Of the Republic wasn't necessarily an understood concept yet.

39:31
Jay
So right now we're starting the conspiracy theory that George Lucas was reading Superman. You heard it here first. No, I just. I think it's one of those words, like I've said before, like this. The story pulls so many tropes from so many other stories, so throwing in clone soldiers is just par for the course because it just makes the story feel more familiar. Right. As you're reading this, you're like, of course Lex Luthor would have clone soldiers, because why wouldn't he? That just makes the most logical sense for him. And again, as the reader, you're like, it just makes it easier to get into the story.

40:14
Case
Yeah, for real. It's such a good space opera setting is, I guess the thing about it. It's super easy, understand? And like you're just like here with it. You're like, okay, Lex Luthor as the emperor, he's cloned himself a billion times. This all makes sense. Like like these are all logical extensions of it all. And Superman plays a. An active role, but can't be an overwhelming power fantasy. And it's just. It fits really nicely into sort of like any kind of just space opera kind of thing. Like. Yeah, I mean like Caleb would fit right alongside like a lensman or something like that if we wanted to do like some classic like space opera tropes. But anyway, so Lex Luthor is gloating about how like Caleb came alone and he's like, what are you talking about? I didn't come alone.

41:03
Case
And that's when they blow in the side of the room and his friends like shoot their way in. This begins a fight that doesn't actually go that well for them at first. Caleb is overwhelmed by the. The big bruiser. Meanwhile, Lex Luthor has a force field and he's like kind of snarky about it. He's like, nope, sorry, force field not as easy as you thought, eh? Which I like that he still has his wits about him to be like kind of a jerk ass. Eventually Caleb fly or like throws off the. The ones that he's fighting and. And makes a. A beeline for Lex Luthor who then blasts him with like his own custom kryptonite.

41:39
Jay
Yep.

41:40
Jmike
It's like, how do you know that was going to work?

41:42
Case
Well, I mean, he does note that it's based on hydros, which you know, kind of flies in the face of him believing it to be the true Superman. Although he also seems that sort of is like you're kind of reborn into this body kind of thing. He's old and crazy, but. But he still is smart enough to have fashioned his own kind of kryptonite radiation. And then. Well, he's older.

42:05
Jay
Sorry, I'm just gonna. He's old and crazy. But he also. It's the most logical way to defeat this new version of Superman. Like, he went. He got the core elements of hydros. Like that's actually like. It all makes sense. You know, just showing the super scientist that is Lex Luthor. Right. So like as I was reading it, yeah. I had the first thought, like, how is kryptonite affecting him? And then you read it, you're like, oh, that's actually smart. I get that. Yeah, I kind of like that.

42:31
Case
Yeah. It's like, okay, I know how to make kryptonite. And basically I can make kryptonite for anyone based on the core element of that planet, especially if they happen to be like a Superman type being because of whatever kryptonite does to a super being. John Byrne had this whole idea that, like, kryptonite radiation, like, replaced the solar radiation of Superman, and that's why he particularly was affected. But anyway, so Corrin jumps in the way of the blast to like, give Superman a second, which succeeds. He's able to sidestep the blast and like, shoot it with his own heat beams from his hands. But that's, but Corin took the brunt of it. And even if he wasn't being affected by the radiation, he was being affected by heat of the blast. And so he is all up when we actually see him and he.

43:15
Case
He just dies saying, be good to her. Be to. To just put a bow on that particular little love triangle right there. So they fall back. But before they do, J Mike, as you pointed out, Caleb blows up the body of the. The clone. Even though they're not able to directly attack Lex Luthor, they destroy his new clone that he was fashioning for him, which apparently takes years. And so considering how old this Lex Luthor is, we don't necessarily know how to.

43:42
Speaker 4
How.

43:42
Case
How much time he has. We figure he can extend his life long enough to get a new body, but it certainly is a huge setback for him. And so this jumps forward in time where, like, things are going pretty well because the Emperor is getting increasingly erratic. We also find out new superpowers for Caleb, and I actually rather like these. So one is that he can create warps in space time and to travel really fast, which is just like table stakes for a Superman in a space setting. And then another, he can actually like, create portals to like, observe information from people. And I like this as being a variation on super senses, which we don't necessarily know that he has or not. And I like this as being like, I can just extend my consciousness to other places.

44:25
Case
And again, it's like a very sort of spacey version of like, super senses.

44:30
Jay
Yeah, it's X ray vision taken to a much greater level and it works really well. It's a nice thing.

44:37
Case
But as they are actually doing pretty well, they stumble upon a planet that is the quote unquote Krypton protocols that they have stolen from the Emperor. So they have located a world that is similar to Hydros and. And apparently similar to Krypton. But but really similar to Hydrus because these are like some sort of, like, agrarians, like, society. They look like Bronze Age at best in terms of. Of their level of technology. And this is a really cool, like, couple of pages where they. They discuss, like, what are we gonna do with this planet? That we have found that, in theory, anyone who leaves the planet will have superpowers.

45:16
Jay
Yeah. For me, this was the most Superman y of the whole story. Like him, you know, when he's not fighting, but he's actually being the moral center of the team and being the. Making the right choice and basically saying we can't be, like, the Empire emperor. Like, I. I really like the way they did this because it showed he wasn't just a big fighter. He's also, you know, like the. You could say, like, the spiritual leader of the group as well.

45:43
Case
Right? Yeah, he's a miller. A Miller. He's a moral pillar in this scenario that. That they actually have to listen to. And. And it's nice because we get his internal monologue because we. We see the. The options, which is that some people are like, we can take this whole world and build an army out of them and then have an army of Superman, and that would actually even the odds.

46:04
Jmike
Or.

46:04
Case
But maybe it's just too dangerous for them to even exist. We should destroy this world because holy shit. Like, can you imagine if they found out that they had superpowers? We don't know what they could do. And then Caleb gives his actual plan, which is that we could just, like, pick, like, some of the best from this world and have a team, and it would just be enough to, like, support me because I desperately need support. But then the actual speech he gives is the. Is the more moral choice, like, the one where it's like, no, we. We just need to leave them alone, and we. We need to make this a world that they can't find because it's super dangerous if the emperor finds them. But we also don't want to, like, kill them for things that they have never done.

46:46
Case
So it's really nice there.

46:47
Jmike
They.

46:48
Case
They listen to him, and then the next chapter, they use that world for one really good purpose, which is that Caleb has impregnated Lang, and it's indicated that it would make a lot of sense for her to give birth. Not on a planet where the baby would have superpowers.

47:05
Jmike
Yeah. Yep.

47:06
Case
And I'm like, that's a good, logical way to approach the Superman giving birth scenario. So we get them, like, they're. They're way off, away from the rest of the world. They're just, like, on a remote, like, deserted island. And Caleb gets to, like, show off his fishing skills and stuff and has, like, a nice little moment with Lang before returning to the fight because he can't even stay for the birth. Like, he could only, like, come and drop her off. And this looks like it's still fairly early in this whole process. But then he. He heads off and he notes that the planet now is called Solitude, which is obviously like the Fortress of Solitude. And I like that as a. As a fun detail for this thing. Like here, it's kind of like Kandor also, where it's.

47:48
Case
He has access to a world full of potential Superman, but he. Where he doesn't have powers. And it's fun. I. I like it a lot. Like, is a extremely fast, very space operatic kind of story, but it is a very well told one of those. Like, J. Mike, like, how. How would you feel? Or how do you feel? This is measuring up. Compared to the other two that we've.

48:11
Jmike
Oh, this is the best one by far. Except for, like, other than, like, the Supergirl one that we did, this is the best one.

48:23
Jay
It's the second best one.

48:25
Jmike
I would put this about the Supergirl one, actually, but the Supergirl is like, this one Supergirl and the rest were just like. You really don't have to, like, worry about those. But this story is like. Oh, it's really concise. It doesn't have to. It's really like boom, by the numbers. You don't have any parts that you could kind of like, get rid of because they just exist for no reason. Like, it's. It's really good and really well told and really well drawn. Like, there aren't any inconsistencies between, like, the chapters or anything. Really good.

48:58
Case
Yeah, it's. It's a really good presentation. I like, you know, between this and the Adventures of Superman annual that we looked at last time, which I, I rather like the story, but it is like. Like, it's a very, like it. It's a very surface level approach to a very interesting issue. Like, the fact that they tell it all in one issue is, like, impressive, but they have to, like, speed through what is, like, a fairly serious thing because it's like this whole, like, culture of gaslighting between alien species. This one is not as complex. Like, it's intentionally something that's, like, very easy to jump on board, but as a result, it accomplishes a lot more storytelling in. In the issue because it's just like, holy. We just, like. Like, we covered again, Star wars and Empire in this one.

49:48
Jmike
Yep.

49:49
Case
Jay, how are you feeling about this one?

49:51
Jay
So, I mean, full caveat to start. I picked this one solely because Kurt Busiek wrote it. Right. So I kind of went in with those expectations of, like, if nothing else, this is going to be a good story. And. And as I said at the beginning, like, my memories of the whole Legends of the Dead Earth. And to be honest, most of DC's big annual crossovers have normally been disappointing. This was not this case. And especially the second time I read it. I enjoyed it more the second time. And I gotta be honest, this feels so much like if DC was doing, you know, like, when Marvel did, like, the 2099, the Spider man, and they had the first issue, and then this feels like the first issue of a new DC series where they're like, here's Superman, and he's.

50:37
Jay
And it's done that well. Like, this doesn't feel like a throwaway. This doesn't feel like, hey, we got a bunch of people to just get some work. Like, this is, like, every page you can tell has a lot of, like, there's so much talent in this. You know, I gotta say, like, yeah, the art, like, Paul Ryan is hitting on all cylinders on every page. And it's not a surprise. He's a great artist. He's almost just too good for what he's got, like, for. For the premise of these annuals. But, yeah, I'd recommend that. I think this was. This was really well done. I. I enjoyed this way more than both of the Legion stories, and I love the Legion, and this, I just thought was way better. And I. I want to see more of this.

51:22
Jay
Like, I wish I was kind of hoping that the other Superman annuals would be, like, more of this. These characters, but. Nope, this is it.

51:29
Case
And, yeah, yeah, it's a shame that Caleb, as far as I know, never comes back. Like, this is his one story,

51:37
Jay
Because you could have so much fun with this. This is. You know, this is a. This is a great multiverse story, if you wanted to take it that way. Like, just be like, here's a different version of Superman and we're going to run this. And, you know, it really felt. Yeah, it really felt like a 80s 90s Marvel alternate universe story, which I really dig. Like, it's. It's. It's great.

52:00
Case
Yeah. Or like the original Guardians of the Galaxy when they were on the run from the Badoon in. In the far future. Yeah. So, like, the only reason why I, like, I. There's the part of me that is, like, okay with this being a one and done is that it is fairly simple in terms of the world that is presented. Like, you know, we say it's very Star Wars. It's the fucking Empire. Like, you know, like, they're not being subtle in where they're pulling all their references here, which is potentially fine. Star wars is also a pastiche of, like, all the sci fi that had come before it as well. It's just. It's one where, like, how much could you. Could you draw out of it? You would definitely, in the next issue, start, like, differentiating it from, like, your source material to.

52:46
Case
To give you some more, like, Runway. But I actually have a lot of faith in Kurt Busaic to do that. Like, I think that he could pull that off really well. And, you know, like we said, it's no surprise. This. This is one of my favorite writers of all time. Like, knocking a fairly simple challenge out of the park.

53:04
Jay
Yeah, exactly. So, sorry, Busaic.

53:07
Speaker 4
Right.

53:07
Jay
I've been mispronouncing his name the entire time. No, I. I mispronounce everybody's name, so I'm just gonna go with Busaik.

53:13
Case
I. I don't know for sure.

53:16
Jay
Okay. If it's one thing I've learned of all the podcasts I've done, it is I am horrible at pronouncing people's names, so I'm going to go with what you said. Buzaik. That works for me. So I gotta call out one more thing in this book, which is a. Which is a bizarre thing to call out, but something that really stood out. You get so used to, like, female objectification in comic books, and this is male objectification at its absolute finest. So, like, it. You know, I kind of. I had. As I was reading this, the joke that was in my head was like, this is a comic for the ladies. Because he is a piece of meat for 40 pages. Like, there are so many shots of just there's his ass and there's this, and it's. And.

54:00
Jay
And like, no other character is treated that way. And I was kind of like, all right, that's an interesting take on this as well. It's. It was. It was just funny, like, funny to see. And I guess because I'm so. You know, especially in the 90s when it's. When there's so much on the other side of this, it was kind of refreshing to see them go this way.

54:18
Case
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Like, there's certainly like some Chris Hemsworth, like, Thor vibes going on here.

54:24
Jay
Oh, yeah, yeah, it's, yeah, there's, yeah. Very, very. That's a great comparison. Very Thor.

54:30
Case
Yeah, yeah. This comic does not pass the Bechdel test by virtue of the fact that there's only one female character in it, but it does at least like, have the objectification side of it be on the flip, which is fun. Y, Is there anything that we haven't talked about? Because, like, this is a fairly, it's a fairly quick story, but like, I, I, it's a lot of fun. I, I think that it's easy to recommend and, and easy to read through very quickly. It, it tells a lot of story in that time with a character that looks pretty cool. The stakes are really good. I, as, I, I just want to keep on saying a Superman type character in a space opera setting is so logical.

55:09
Case
And like, this is why I really like the Five Years later period with Laurel Gand, like, where she is like the, like taking on the cuns. Like, it's so, like, it's so cool having just like a character who can, like, be equivalent to a warship, but is equivalent to a warship, not a fleet.

55:28
Jay
Yeah, I mean, getting these sort of characters out in space, I think that's what's always been the appeal of like, when it's Superboy and the Legion and they're out, you know, like, I think of those great ones when it's, you know, Mon El and Ultra Boy and Super Bowl Superboy destroying fleets of ships and, or, you know, that Legion lost where Wildfire is going crazy on the progeny to let them let loose is just great images in comics. And yeah, it's just a, you know, and I'm sure for the artist, it's got to be fun to draw as well. Like, I get to draw big ships and big explosions and as the reader, you can feel the energy. You can feel the enthusiasm.

56:06
Case
Yeah. And you know, speaking of, like, what would be fun to draw like this character of a Superman is like, gotta be so fun because he's got like the light trails, like, and he can just do any kind of energy effect from any part of his body. That is always so fun. And like, there are some artists who just like kill for that kind of stuff. Like Howard Porter, for example, would have killed it on this. Like, not saying I want a different artist. I'm just Saying, like, there's so many artists who. Who. Who just love having, like, energy trail characters. And, like, this is. Like, this is that. But on Superman and. And not Electric Blue.

56:42
Jay
Yeah, it's. It's a. Like, you. Like we've been saying big space opera, they get to have the fun with, the ships, they get to have fun with. You know, it's. It's always big moments. Right. Big fight scenes and, you know, and. And Paul Ryan does a. Does an amazing job on this. Like, he's. It is one of those things, like, I think a lot of times when we talk about comic books, we. We lose focus of just like the professional artist, the guy who knows how to tell a story or. Sorry, the person who knows how to tell a story and can do these big moments. Like, you know, I've been seeing this when, you know, after Sal Bushema passed. And that's another guy who. We didn't really notice how good he was or we didn't. Until you go back and reread it.

57:24
Jay
You see what he's bringing. And I think this is kind of the same feel.

57:26
Case
Yeah, yeah. Just really solid craftsman working on this piece.

57:30
Jay
Oh, yeah, yeah.

57:31
Case
All right. Jmuike, is there anything that we left off?

57:33
Jmike
I think we got it all now. I just have, like, the Star wars theme playing in my head. Yeah. Although I did read the whole Lex thing with, like, Palpatine's voice because it felt right. Right. That's just me.

57:51
Case
No, that one's pretty fitting right there.

57:52
Jmike
He's in the chair. He's got, like, his maintenance around him. And I was like, oh, this is. This is fitting. Yeah.

58:00
Case
No, that one. That's not a stretch on that one. In terms of casting. That makes a lot of sense right there.

58:06
Jmike
Yeah.

58:06
Jay
If only the kryptonite beams had come out of his hands.

58:09
Jmike
Having great. Yeah, that'd have been great.

58:13
Jay
That's what they needed. Yeah, that would have been the perfect moment.

58:18
Case
Yeah. He had those, like, Jack Kirby fingertips. Yeah. All right, well, I think that covers then, our conversation about the Legends of Dead Earth. Superman, the man of steel annual from 1996. Next week we are going to pick up with a different Legends of Dead Earth. I think we're doing Superboy next. I can't remember for sure. Regardless, we will be picking up after that. Listeners, you're hearing this not first, because this is coming out way after, but Jay and J. Mike are hearing this one, which is that some scheduling stuff is going to have to happen because we just found out when the baby is coming and it is imminent. So this is not the last episode of Men of Steel, but it might be the last one where I'm sane for at least for a period of time.

59:01
Case
No listeners remember when Grace was born, things got weird.

59:09
Jmike
Weirder than Wonder Woman or just like, you know.

59:13
Case
No, not as weird as our four month Wonder Woman coverage because of the movie getting postponed. So on that note, Jay, thank you for coming on the show. It is always great having you and I know that we are keeping you from dinner right now.

59:29
Jay
I still have a little bit of time, but thank you. Thanks for the invite. It's always a blast to come on here. I do really enjoy it and I always learn stuff because as much as I love Superboy and the Legion, my Superman knowledge is pretty shaky on a lot of this. So it's great to learn what I'm and great to read comics I would never have thought of reading. And this is definitely in that category. So it was a nice surprise.

59:50
Case
Yeah, I figured this would be a good one for you, which is why I reached out to see if you were interested. But yeah, so that's awesome. People should definitely check out all the stuff you've got going on. Give all your plugs and socials.

01:00:02
Jay
I will. So I am co host of the Long Live the Legion podcast with Jim Fetters. And I gotta say this, we're in our second year. The number of guests that we've got, the people who are coming on to talk about the Legion, the fact that a Legion series is coming in 2026, it's a really exciting year and these episodes have just been a blast to do. So if you're a Superman fan and you wanted to find out a little bit about the Legion, we are the perfect podcast for you to go to. I think we're pretty open to new readers. I don't think we get too in the weeds. Well, maybe a little bit. So definitely check out that podcast.

01:00:38
Jay
Also, because I can't get enough Legion of Superheroes, I write a weekly legion column@jmlonglowthelegion.blogspot.com you can find me on blueskymciernan, BSGuy Social and you can find me on Reddit and on Discord on both the certain POV Discord and the Legion Discord using the name DrakeBros.

01:01:00
Jmike
Right.

01:01:00
Case
Because no one could ever guess who your favorite character is. Nope.

01:01:03
Jay
Not at all.

01:01:05
Case
Yeah. So people should absolutely be checking out Long Live the Legion. It's a great primer on a Byzantine franchise. So I Always enjoy listening to it. This episode is going to be dropping long after the most recent episode has come out. So not going to go into the specifics, but always appreciate all of the topics that you've gone into because there's just really cool eras of the Legion and it's difficult for any fan to know about all of it. And you've done a really good job of doing primers of different periods and for different characters, and it's a really good time.

01:01:39
Jay
Thank you.

01:01:39
Case
J Mike, where can people find you and follow you?

01:01:42
Jmike
I'm mostly on the Discord server these days. I'm in and around lurking. But if you want, you can also find me on bluesky at J5 bluesky social. And I'm still trying to figure out why there's no Legion in Legends of Dead Earth. Like, where are they? There should be more legionnaires there. It's like the future is their whole thing. Where are they?

01:02:07
Jay
Was there not enough of this story for you?

01:02:09
Jmike
I just raised a lot of questions. A lot of questions. So I'm like, are you thinking the Legion? You think of, like, the far future and everything? I'm like, okay, this is a little bit further in the future. I feel like there should be more Legionnaires around. Apparently not more questions.

01:02:25
Jay
Well, I will always want more legionnaires in every story, So I am 100% with you on this one.

01:02:31
Case
Yeah, we're not disagreeing. It's just there's a lot going on in the story.

01:02:35
Jay
Yeah, I mean, look, I'm the only person who watched the Superman movie going, when's the Legion going to show up? Knowing they never were. But it's like, come on, James Gunn, give us a little.

01:02:47
Case
I would have lost my shit if the Superman movie had a Legion reference in there.

01:02:52
Jay
All I was hoping was a ring in his bedroom in Smallville. Like, if they just panned across and there was this goal, I would have literally just lost my. Lost my mind in theater. And I'm sure my wife would have hit me about a dozen times because I'm like, oh, my. Worth it? Yeah.

01:03:08
Jmike
Yes, it would have been worth it.

01:03:09
Jay
Worth it about. Yes.

01:03:11
Jmike
Yeah.

01:03:12
Case
Well, if you want awesome experiences like that, you should absolutely check out the Long Live the Legion podcast. If you are looking for us recounting our own similar experience that actually happened in a movie theater, you should tune into Scruffy Nerf Herders, which is The Star Wars D20 show that J. Mike and I were a part of and has recently been relaunched on our YouTube channel. So if you wait around, there's going to be a scene that we recorded before the Last Jedi came out, but the episode was recorded beforehand but didn't drop until after. And we had to put a disclaimer because it was almost verbatim a scene that happens in the Last Jedi. You'll listen to me rant about how we all saw the movie together and I was just hitting you guys because I was so frustrated while it was happening.

01:04:02
Case
So check that out. Check out Scruffy Nerf Herders. It's really fun to bring that back and put it up on the YouTube channel and see what people are thinking about it. So that's another good show to check out. You should also check out all the stuff going on@ certainpow.com we've got a ton of great shows on the network and if you go to the YouTube channel, you can find many of them that I work on, plus like other YouTube stuff. It's all fun stuff there. So check out all of that.

01:04:29
Case
You can find me on the socials Aiken with the exception of Instagram where I'm holding on 4 dear life to my AIM screen name from high school, which is Quetzalcoatl5q u e T Z A L C o A T L 5 the five is a legion of Superheroes reference because I was a nerd for Brainiac 5 at the time. So J Mike, there you go. There's your legion for this episode. Otherwise you should check out the Discord server for Certain pov. We're all on it. It's a, it's a great time. You can find a link in our show notes or on the website certainpov.com you should also consider subscribing to the Patreon for this show. If you go to patreon.com certainpov media you can sign up. And even at the free tier, we're trying to like put out good content.

01:05:07
Case
There is always life going on. So the amount of good content is always flexing, fluctuating. But I am consistent in that I get an essay out every week on a nerdy topic and one on a D and D topic. And that is for the free tier as well. So even the free tier is a really good value. If you donate at a higher level, you get shout outs on this show. So that includes some people I'm going to shout out right now, which is Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir, Lee Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Keith Lettinen. You can be like one of those wonderful people and chip in at the executive producer level and we would really, really appreciate it. Again, listen, I'm having second child right now.

01:05:51
Case
This is happening so would really appreciate it. It really helps the show. Just gonna say that again anyway. Otherwise you should tune in next time because again we're going to be talking about more Legends of Dead Earth. And until then, Stay.

01:06:14
Jmike
Men of Steel is a certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sofia Ricciardi, our logo is by Chris Bautista, and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our theme is by Jeff Moonan.

01:06:35
Speaker 4
Digging for Kryptonite is a weekly podcast series hosted by yours truly, Anthony Desios, examining Superman's vast mythology across time and media. If you have a favorite story, creator or adaptation, chances are we've covered it over the past 200 episodes. I've interviewed creators including Mark Waid, Dan Jurgens, Jeph Loeb, Joe Kelly, and many more. Whether you're a lifelong Superman fan like me or you're new to the character, we have you covered. Subscribe to Digging for Kryptonite wherever you get podcasts. And remember, it's about what you do. It's about action.

01:07:09
Case
Cpov Certainpov. Com.