Episode 168 - My Adventures with Superman Season 3 - with Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Production

For the latest Men of Steel, Case and Jmike welcome Red and Blue from Overly Sarcastic Productions back to the show for a full-season conversation about My Adventures with Superman Season 3. They talk about Kara as the season’s MVP, Jimmy’s romantic disasters, Lois and Clark facing their possible future, Bizarro being perfect, Cyborg Superman going full menace, and the show’s very anime-flavored spin on the Death and Return of Superman.

SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts • Spotify • iHeartRADIO • RSS

Support us on Patreon! https://www.patreon.com/CertainPOVMedia

Men of Steel Full Episode

Originally aired: August 29, 2026

Edited by Sophia Ricciardi

Scored by Gen Moonen

Certain Point Of View is a podcast network brining you all sorts of nerdy goodness! From Star Wars role playing, to Disney day dreaming, to video game love, we've got the show for you! Learn more on our website: https://www.certainpov.com

Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/wcHHer4

PODCAST SHOWS:

▶ Men Of Steel - https://www.certainpov.com/men-of-steel​

FOLLOW US:

▶ Twitter: @certainpovmedia @menofsteelpod

▶ Instagram: @certainpovmedia

⏱️ Chapters

00:53 Welcome and Guest Intro

02:04 Kara Zor-El

03:34 Future Trunks Theory

04:33 Overall Season Thoughts

07:33 Episode-by-Episode Setup

08:08 Jmike Recaps Seasons 1 and 2

11:10 The Future Is Coming

12:28 Bizarro

16:52 Kara Understands Bizarro

19:31 Bizarro and the Death of Superman

22:52 Bizarro’s Friends

24:12 Otto Binder

25:55 Kara and Jimmy

30:43 Challengers of the Unknown

31:20 Mobile Suit Toyman

34:17 Cyborg Superman

36:25 The Kryptonite Whip

37:52 Jessica Cruz

39:06 What Makes Superman Matter

41:35 Jimmy Olsen Bullshit Power Hour

42:42 Lois and Clark’s Future

44:51 Flamebird Watches

45:55 Kara Hits the Town

51:28 Jon Kent Arrives

52:46 Jon Kent vs. Jonathan Lane

57:55 The John Downgrade

01:00:15 Kara Trains Jon

01:01:03 The Subterraneanosauri

01:02:38 Lex and Deathstroke

01:09:40 Jimmy Is Always Right

01:10:09 The Death of Superman

01:12:44 Hank Henshaw as Cyborg Superman

01:15:25 Jon’s Humanity

01:17:14 Superman Powers Through Kryptonite

01:20:41 Hank Sees the Future

01:23:39 Jon Helps Save the Day

01:25:01 The Eradicator Future

01:26:11 Party Animals

01:27:34 Powerless Clark Kent

01:29:52 Kara’s Award Gala

01:32:42 Animal Transformations

01:35:06 Bizarro Returns

01:37:55 The Mxyzptlk Episode

01:42:12 General Lane

01:43:12 Alternate Futures

01:46:57 It’s Raining Supermen

01:47:20 Jonathan Lane and Lara Lane

01:49:21 Bald Lex and the Eradicator

01:51:57 Eradicator Evolves

01:53:18 Kara’s Finest Hour

01:56:58 Supergirl Sacrifices

01:58:50 Vae Victis

01:59:06 Brainiac and Kryptonian History

02:03:49 Superman’s Blue Energy

02:06:58 Kara and Jonathan

02:08:05 Operation Doomsday

02:12:04 The Eradicator’s Final Form

02:14:06 Lex and the Eradicator

02:16:06 Waiting for Superman

02:20:36 What Did Clark Trade?

02:20:47 Darkseid Speculation

02:22:55 Bizarro and Jimmy

02:24:26 Final Character Thoughts

02:25:53 Lois and Clark’s Future

02:27:12 Eradicator as Villain

02:29:30 Return of the King Wrap-Up

Transcription

00:00
Blue
This episode is also such great Supergirl content. This is such a fun episode for Kara of like, the one, two punch of Lois being like, Jimmy, you brought a date to a gala where Kara's getting an award. And then for Kara to be like, you brought a date. Vine. Boom. Sound effect. Zoom in. To a gala where I'm getting an award. Immaculate Jimmy Dipshit.

00:24
Red
Flame Bird strikes again.

00:53
Case Aiken
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I am Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Jmike Folson.

01:00
Jmike Folson
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the show.

01:02
Case Aiken
Welcome back to the show indeed. Because statistically most people are here for specifically this episode. We have been getting a lot of comments on YouTube and on our podcast asking when were going to be talking about this.

01:16
Jmike Folson
Yes.

01:17
Case Aiken
Because today we are talking about my adventures with Superman season three. And to have that conversation, we are joined yet again for our seasonal traditional by Red Woo and Blue hello from Overly Sarcastic productions.

01:34
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:35
Blue
Let me tell you, I really missed no season three last year because we had such a good cadence. There was one season a year, and then they were working on it. They made us wait for it. And I'm like, I really wanted to watch this and then talk about it on the man of Steel podcast. When will soon be now.

01:50
Red
We were starving last year. Starving for good Superman content in the year of our Lord 2025.

01:55
Jmike Folson
Right.

01:55
Case Aiken
The summer of Superman. And we don't have my adventures with Superman.

01:58
Red
Honestly, that might have been why they were like, we're not in a competition. Let Gun have his day.

02:04
Case Aiken
Probably. But at the same time, I'm disappointed. But on the other hand, this is going to be a small spoiler for this conversation. God, I love this version of Kara Zor El. And this is a great season for.

02:15
Red
Yeah, this is definitely in contrast with the Supergirl experience a month or two back. I think this version of Kara shines even brighter for the contrast.

02:25
Case Aiken
Yeah.

02:26
Blue
Sorry. I love this version of Kara so much. When I was texting, read my notes like every other thing was like. And then Kara did this. Like, our neurodivergent Queen Kara Zora. The best showing of any. Like, so adorably, like, magnificently autistic. I love her so much.

02:46
Red
Here's what everyone has to understand. Kara is just Worf. And Worf is also autistic.

02:52
Case Aiken
Yeah. No, Speaking as someone who was diagnosed as an adult, actually in his 40s as autist. The notes there. I've never felt so seen by a character.

03:01
Red
Kara is wonderful and she is the Primary benefit of turning the Kryptonians into Saiyans. Klingons, you know, but just a little bit of Namekian. A little Namekian. I have thoughts about that change, but I think Kara is representative of the best consequences of that change because she's so delightful.

03:20
Blue
Kara had the best season showing of any character.

03:24
Red
Yes.

03:24
Blue
She had by far the best showing.

03:26
Red
This season was a really good chara season. It contains her finest hour. So definitely a very good showing for Kara.

03:33
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

03:34
Case Aiken
Lot of solid stuff. Before we get into full on discussions about season three, for those of you who have listened to season one and season two of our commentary about it. Holy fuck. Did we call the future trunks scenario now? We didn't call that. They would be doing two separate future trunks. They'd be doing multi. They're multiverse theory.

03:55
Red
Yeah, yeah, yeah. God.

04:00
Jmike Folson
The, the.

04:00
Case Aiken
No, like I was, I hope it's multiverse theory.

04:04
Red
Yeah, we'll get to it.

04:05
Jmike Folson
We'll get there.

04:06
Red
I was talking to Blue about like watching this season is the equivalent of watching three seasons of Dragon Ball Z and two seasons of Sailor Moon and like one episode of Gundam for Spice, right?

04:15
Jmike Folson
Yes.

04:18
Blue
I saw the title of Mobile Suit Toyman and I'm like, well I know where this one's going immediately.

04:23
Red
Episode title the whiplash going reigning Superman to Vae Victus. I will never forgive them.

04:33
Case Aiken
Oh man. Just so I, I think I, I, I speak for myself. I, but I, I think I speak for all of us that were enjoying this season again.

04:41
Jmike Folson
Fantastic.

04:42
Red
One million. I wanted it to be longer. That was my only complaint. Really.

04:46
Case Aiken
Yes. So that's a note that I had for literally every single episode. And I, J Mike and I were texting most like most episodes because typically my watch time ended like weekends are hard. Three and a half year old and a six month old and weekends are just very difficult to like sit down and watch tv. So like very typically, unless there was like anomaly on a given day, it was like Monday or Tuesday that I would end up watching it and Jay Mike would usually watch it like Sunday night or Monday somewhere in that time frame. And so like J Mike would be like, oh my God. And then I would respond with like wait, hang on. And then I would respond oh my God. I see what you mean.

05:25
Case Aiken
But my consent, my consistent through line of every single episode was like, it felt like it was like five minutes too short and I just wanted more. And I get it. They were setting up, they're planting and doing really good work with all of that. And I was very excited about where they went. And I can't wait to watch the season truly in a binge. I watched it in a. Actually, I say that. And then I watched it all in a binge in the last 48 hours, because so, like, I got actually that experience. But it is truly just setting up so much good stuff constantly throughout the season and just really doing all this great stuff. But I felt like it was more so than the previous seasons.

06:08
Case Aiken
I felt like the previous seasons, each episode, I felt more satisfied by itself, whereas this season, every episode left me wanting more.

06:15
Red
I think that season two was very well paced because they always strike this balance where the first five episodes are kind of bullshit Clark Kent slice of life shenanigans. And then they gut punch, you twist the kn. And then the rest of the show is like, Clark Kent has the worst day of his life again, Superman drama. And that's always very fun. And they do that again in this season. But like with season two, the Bulget Clark relationship drama is like Lois having second thoughts about their relationship, and it's very tedious. And then it's a relief when the Superman plot hits because we know that we're going to get a clean resolution to all this romantic subplot bullshit.

06:53
Blue
Because Jimmy wishes.

06:55
Red
Yeah. And then I think the thing is, because season three feels kind of cramped, it ends up reflecting badly on the more chill, like, silly stuff that we need for the pacing. Because, like, I was like, I feel like this Jimmy thing could have been half the length. I feel like we didn't need episode seven. I feel like. And it's like, I love these things. I do think they are fun. But, God, we had so little time. I have, like, a wish list. And basically the only thing on it is more time for Bizarro. There's two other things. Like, my sweet boy who's never done anything wrong in his entire life, who I would immediately kill and die for.

07:33
Blue
Yes.

07:33
Case Aiken
Okay. Like, all right, so we're. We're gonna do the same format that we have done every single time now, which is that we're gonna talk episode by episode. And I've got some notes particularly. And we might. We might, like, when a certain plot thread is introduced, like, go into a deep dive on, like, those particular plot threads or circle back. We'll find out how the conversation goes. We like tangents on this podcast.

07:52
Jmike Folson
Yes.

07:52
Case Aiken
Red, blue. I'm pretty sure you like tangents. We're gonna have a good time. Before we get into our conversation about season three, we should do Our favorite feature within a feature, which is that. J. McFallsen, can you recap for the audience what has roughly happened in season one and two?

08:08
Jmike Folson
Oh, my gosh. I'm going to fight you over this one day.

08:13
Red
Believe in you.

08:14
Case Aiken
Hey, blame Jay McKiernan. He's the one who, like, chimed in being like, this is your favorite feature on the show.

08:19
Jmike Folson
Okay, season one, we meet Clark Kent, who also meets Lois Lane. They have their intertwining adventures. Clark all of a sudden starts developing these superpowers for some reason. He gets the freezing breath, the X ray vision, the laser vision, all that great stuff. Lois's dad doesn't trust Lois, or doesn't trust Clark because he's interested in Lois, but. Plus, he's an alien. We also get involved with Amanda Waller. We meet Cadmus, Task Force X. All the other stuff we see. Slade, we meet. What is it? The group of kids called the Report.

08:49
Red
Oh, the Newsboy Legion.

08:50
Jmike Folson
Newsboy Legion. There you go. Boom. We meet these guys. They're around causing shenanigans. We have the big season finale where the Krypton ships almost come to the sky. General Lane gives Clark a second chance. We have some kind of resolution. And then we move directly into season two. We're going very fast here, so we have to keep up. Season two is when we finally, like, Clark is lonely. He's like, I'm a lonely boy. Even though he's doing something with Lois, at this point, they are together, but not really together. Jimmy's like, why won't you guys.

09:19
Case Aiken
Indicates what they're doing together.

09:21
Jmike Folson
But, yeah, see, Jimmy's like, why won't you guys just admit your feelings for each other? Foreshadowing.

09:30
Red
Okay.

09:32
Jmike Folson
Admit that you guys like each other. Like, we don't care. All of a sudden, Clark sends out this beacon into space, and he is back. And Kara shows up and she's like, hey, I think you're my cousin. There's more Kryptonians out there. He's like, what? She's like, psych. And she kidnaps him because Brainiac told her to. He. They have a cousin friendship bonding moment in space. He's like, I hope we can better than this. He escapes. Brainiac's like, no, you killed all the Thanagarians, and I'll never forgive you for this. Sends her back to. Yeah, she goes to Thanagar and she sees, like, the big thing where she killed everybody.

10:08
Red
Well, yeah, but Brainiac purpose.

10:10
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

10:11
Case Aiken
I'll never forgive you for being sad about it.

10:14
Jmike Folson
Oh, my God. They killed all the Thanagarians. She goes back, gets brain controlled, she goes back to Earth, she kidnaps Clark, beats the crap out of him. Brainiac shows up, they have this huge fight in the sky. Kara becomes Supergirl. Jimmy's like, oh, my gosh, I think I love you, but not really. We have to talk about this later. And then we move on to season three.

10:32
Red
Brainiac is controlling Clark for some of this and puts him in a nice slut it outfit with the hip vents and the toes out. And that was kind of cool. Look at a half. Yeah,.

10:43
Jmike Folson
Yeah, yeah.

10:44
Case Aiken
Never did I expect the series to be like, here's slutty Superman. And like, oh, dude.

10:49
Red
One salient character trait is that he always puts Clark in less clothing than he did last time.

10:56
Case Aiken
God, it's.

10:57
Jmike Folson
We're gonna be.

10:58
Case Aiken
We're gonna have so much fun when we get to Brainiac showing up again in the season, which wasn't exactly, like, sure that was going to happen. And there we are.

11:07
Red
Brady act's too cool. You can't get rid of him. It's the one rule.

11:10
Case Aiken
But which. God, I have so much to say when we get to there. But we're going to go in episode order because as Red pointed out, this is a season that has a very slow burn at the beginning and then just a lot of stuff when it picks up. But I would say that this season probably more so than season two. Season one has a really strong theme of the who am I? Kind of vibe. This season has a really strong thesis, like, the future is coming and what.

11:41
Blue
Happens in song in episode three, that was a choice.

11:47
Case Aiken
Like, J, Mike and I were both texting about that being like, oh, my God.

11:49
Jmike Folson
It's a musical song from nowhere.

11:53
Blue
Yeah, it's an I want song. Except for Lois, it's an I don't want.

11:57
Red
Yeah, it's a refusal of the call.

11:59
Case Aiken
But what I think is really interesting about the season is that there is this constant thread about, like, what does the future mean to the characters involved? Like, how do they. How do they interpret the future?

12:10
Jmike Folson
How do.

12:10
Case Aiken
How are they bracing for it in all these ways? And then what does it mean when it literally comes back to meet them? And I think that's a really cool thing that we have to talk about from. From every element of it. But we might as well get started with season one because it's season one introduces or episode one.

12:28
Jmike Folson
Thank you. Sorry.

12:29
Case Aiken
Episode one introduces our boy Bizarro.

12:33
Red
Yes.

12:34
Case Aiken
Holy shit. Holy shit.

12:37
Red
It's such a beautiful tribute to Binder as a Creator.

12:41
Case Aiken
Oh, my God, yes. Every aspect of it is amazing. So episode one. So we get a nice little Halloween, like, pumpkin patch kind of thing at the Kent farm, and General Lane shows up and tips off Lois that they should go investigate this location for Project Caliban, which is yet, like, yet another secret government project kind of thing.

13:02
Red
Yeah, yeah.

13:04
Case Aiken
And in it, they. They find fucking Bizarro. They. They also find a forearm dog thing. I was trying to figure out exactly what it was for. Six limbed. Yeah, I should say for. I thought initially. And I. I haven't been able to confirm. Confirm slash. I haven't done enough research on this one. I. I assumed it was like, the Jack Kirby forearmed monster thing that has shown up in things I don' a proper name, but it is. It's a creature that, like, post crisis Superman was allergic to. Like, not like, hurt by Kryptonite style, but, like, literally, like, reacted to with, like, hives and, like, allergies kind of response that is like, if you saw it, you'd be like, it looks like the thing with forearms and like, less, like, less rockiness of a face kind of thing. Was my interpretation of it.

13:52
Case Aiken
But it could also be all kinds of the weird flavor, like, fauna of Krypton, because there's all kinds of weird things like thought beasts and, like, other weird animals of Krypton.

14:03
Red
Yeah.

14:03
Case Aiken
Red, I feel like you have, like, a thing you want to say.

14:05
Red
Well, I don't know the comic reference to it, but we do see more of them in a future episode where we get like, a flashback to sort of like Stone Age Krypton, which also feels like kind of a. A callback to that one episode of Justice League where Clark gets heated, like, 50,000 years in the future, and he ends up, like, fighting a bunch of wolves.

14:24
Blue
Him and Vandal Savage.

14:25
Red
Him and Vandal Savage, like, the Legion is supposed to be out there in the future, but Vandal Savage has created a terrible future timeline by killing the Justice League and destroying Earth's sun. And now he's the only one left alive. And he's like, oh, thank God, Superman, you're here. You can save the day. And Clark is like, I really up.

14:43
Case Aiken
Yeah, let's save that one for the actual when we get to that episode, because there is a lot going on with this episode. Like, this episode kind of feels like not super related to the plot of the season, but at the same time, it actually nails it very well in a lot of ways. Like, they introduce a version of Bizarro, which I adore he's so cute. He's so good.

15:07
Red
When Kara's like, he's a clone abomination. And then he busts out the saddest puppy dog eyes ever seen. Which is a fun little reference because in some comic runs, especially in the New 52, derogatory. Like, Kara's one salient character trait is that she's racist against clones because Krypton was racist against clones. And, like, a die hard conservative by Kryptonian standards. And then, like, Connor is a clone, and, like, there's all these clones running around and she's just horrible to all of them. And Clark is like, kara, I need you to dial it back 15 notches. So it's kind of nice that you just have Kara gesture at that and then immediately be like, never mind, he's fine.

15:42
Case Aiken
Yeah, that's the nice part about the show, which is that there's so much optimism and it just, like, is exuded by Superman. Everyone is willing to accept things that they might have prejudices against, but Superman's influence, like, makes them better people about it. And that's really cool. And that includes Bizarro. Like, Bizarro is scared when we first meet him. Like, he. And he's trying to protect his dog, which we never see again. And, like, I hope it's alive.

16:07
Red
He's. No, it's. The dog is hanging out with apartment. When he's working as, like, an ice cream man, the dog is constantly hanging out with him.

16:14
Blue
Oh, I didn't notice.

16:15
Case Aiken
Oh, my God.

16:15
Red
He doesn't bring it to fights, but he leaves it in his apartment.

16:19
Blue
Yeah. When he sees the eradicator number one fight happening across town, he goes onto his roof and the dog is there.

16:26
Red
Oh, I didn't notice. Don't worry, don't worry. A boy and his dog, they are fine. All good.

16:28
Blue
All good.

16:29
Case Aiken
Oh, my God. Thank God for him. Frankly, in this scenario, I cannot imagine.

16:35
Blue
How this man got an apartment and brought the dog in without anyone seeing. But that's so much a question.

16:40
Red
The landlord was like, I will make an exception because he looks very polite.

16:45
Blue
This is. If the season was longer and we got more stuff. This is like, give me five more seconds of whatever the fuck Bizarro is up to.

16:52
Red
We just get the cutaways to Bizarro applying for a low. I gotta say, structurally, I love this episode because it is entirely our cast piecing together. Like, what happened here from the environmental storytelling. I love that it's the beginning of Kara's incredibly good characterization this season where she's like, as a former living weapon myself, I can say with authority, this is not how you raise a weapon. And it's like, oh, my God, yes.

17:19
Case Aiken
It's so good.

17:21
Red
Yeah, it's fantastic. And I like the creepy sort of organic robot. I like that. Visually, it's clear that Bizarro doesn't really know how to take care of himself because he's still wearing the remnants of the suit he was wearing as a clone before. Like, when, however, Bender died. Clearly, like, he's just kind of been hanging out there because, like, he's wearing the same pants, the knees are torn. So he's just kind of been like, curating this place. But. But listen, they've done a lot of things with Bizarro. This one is not complicated, but it's elegant in its simplicity, where it's like, sure, he's kind of a weird clone of. I guess it's implied that they somehow had Clark's DNA because he really does look like Buffer Clark.

17:57
Blue
Yes.

17:58
Case Aiken
Yeah.

17:58
Red
I don't know if he's voiced by the same guy, but I kind of assumed. But just basically making him, like, kind of a sweet, you know, like, bubble boy blank slate whose first exposure to people other than his creator is Superman saving him and is immediately like, oh, okay, this guy has the right idea. And Bizarro's frequently kind of a cruel joke in the comics where it's like, oh, he wants to do the right thing, but he's just so mixed up. So just by doing, like, taking a compassionate stance on Bizarro and just truly making him like, yeah, he was raised in a kind environment, but he didn't have the socialization that Clark did. So he's following Clark's lead. And Clark is so kind, and Bizarro.

18:37
Case Aiken
Is so good and responds to it well. And yes, looking at the cast, Jack Quaid is listed as both Clark Pizarro, which is fantastic there. Yeah. So we talked about the Animated Series season two, like, many moons ago, seven years ago now. Many, many moons ago in a distance age, an incredibly long amount of time ago. But the Bizarro episode there, where Bizarro is tackling with his programming of being Superman and being good Wood is so, like, his first appearance episode is. Is so heartbreaking because he's just like, his whole, like, Superman saves Lois and that's how he dies, is saving Lois and saving Superman and. And, like, those are wonderful moments. This is doing such sympathy, but. But from a totally different kind of perspective, which is. Is incredible.

19:31
Case Aiken
I think that tying Bizarro into what is the larger arc of the season, which is that they're. It's their take on the death and return of Superman.

19:38
Red
Yeah.

19:40
Case Aiken
Because Bizarro occupies this interesting space that is shared by the con El Superboy, where it's like, here's the Clone of Superman kind of concept here. And, like, how do we tackle the cloning aspect when this series very much does the Superboy thing, but is like, we're not doing the clone thing for him.

19:59
Red
They use his design and his vibes, but they're like, this is John from the future. I saw some people getting really steamed up about that, but I think that, like, my Adventures of Superman is constantly remixing things like, there. We'll get to it. But there's a lot of characters in this season that kind of wear a lot of hats or like, oh, man, I can't remember. I feel like the way they did Parasite was kind of also similar to, like, it starts off as kind of the Lex Luthor mech suit, but then it becomes the sort of Parasite energy stealer. They do a lot of things. Like that final character they deal with is wearing, like, the hats of five different bad guys alternating, which is a very interesting choice. I'm sure we'll talk about that at length.

20:36
Red
But basically, making Bizarro, it's like, okay, Bizarro is an imperfect copy of Superman. You know who else is an imperfect copy of Superman? Connell. Why not simply combine pleasures and then let the cool jacket go on Jon from the future so we can give him the future trunks, like, crop jacket look and all that good dripped out future boy style. And I think it's great. I love this version of Bizarro. He's not complicated, but he's so compassionate.

21:05
Case Aiken
Yes.

21:05
Red
Yeah. As a framing and as a character. I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop, and it didn't. Also, he's very similar to the way they did Broly in the Super Broly movie a few years ago. And I'm sure that was also intentional. There's like, a shot later on where I was like, that's just straight out of. Yeah, okay, cool.

21:23
Blue
Yeah.

21:23
Case Aiken
No, we have made DBZ comparisons like, whoa. Throughout our conversations about this series this season. Is DBZ like, whoa.

21:30
Red
They had Kara yelling in a glowing energy field in a way that I've never seen a Kryptonian do before. And I was like, all right, so we're just mask off Kryptonian society.

21:39
Blue
Let me put it this way. I watched a lot of DBZ when I was younger, but I really have not participated since then. I picked up on a lot of the DBZ stuff they were doing.

21:48
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

21:49
Case Aiken
Yeah. Yes. So wonderful stuff going on with Bizarro. For a while, I wasn't sure if he could actually fly because I wasn't sure if it was like Clark, if he never had those blue energy surges kind of thing was the question I had about him. And then by the end of the season, it's pretty clear he came. Especially because he, like, he gets Clark to the Fortress of Solitude.

22:13
Red
Yeah. Before that, he was mostly doing those, like, Hulk jumps.

22:16
Jmike Folson
Right.

22:17
Case Aiken
But he's so nice, and he responds so well to Clark, and Clark responds so well to him. And, like, they, like, they get each other in a really cool way that I appreciate. And that's the thing that we've done in other versions of Superman. The Animated Series has the great episode where, like, Bizarro comes back and Superman's the only one who can translate everything Bizarro's doing where it's like, oh, Bizarro obviously is trying to, like, replicate Krypton. And it's like, oh, naturally, like, is the joke throughout the episode. And, like, that's cool. And here we do it. But, like, it's that positivity that Superman just, like, radiates out.

22:51
Red
Yeah.

22:52
Jmike Folson
Where.

22:52
Case Aiken
Where you're like, oh, I see this. And, like, it has such great details where, like, Bizarro is, like, my friend. And then later, like, later in the series, like, when we get, like, him having, like, his big triumphant moment against, you know, against the big bad of the season, where everyone says the thing that matters the most to them. He says, my friends. And, like, you know, like, it's such a wonderful callback there. You know, we. We see that he clearly cares about this, like, six leg dog thing who has freeze breath, by the way.

23:23
Red
I love the way that we already talked about this too. I still. I can't get over how good it is just to change the visuals of the freeze breath to make it like a dragon breath weapon rather than just like a little, you know, kind of thing. It's so cool. Anyway, sorry. I like this show.

23:37
Jmike Folson
That's.

23:38
Case Aiken
It's good we can. Can vent as much as we want about any particular cool thing that we like.

23:42
Red
I think a lot of what makes Bizarro work is that as a character, he always is kind of matching Clark's energy, but a little bit to the left. Like, that's his whole thing is he's like a kind of shattered reflection of Superman. And just the fact of, like, he's matching the energy of this Superman who is truly just like this. This beacon of kindness in a. In a world that is frequently not kind to him. Of course, he's a perfect, like, example for Bizarro to follow. It's just so nice. This episode is like a warm hug. It's like coming home.

24:11
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

24:12
Case Aiken
Yeah. And then, Rhett, I think you mentioned this on mic. I can't remember for sure at this point because were riffing a little bit beforehand, but the fact that the person who, like, raises him is Otto Bender is so great. Such an influential writer in the Superman canon, but also an influential writer in the comics canon. The creator of Supergirl.

24:31
Red
I mean, that's what I've heard.

24:32
Case Aiken
Don't remember for sure if he did Bizarro or not. It might have been Jerry Siegel, but he also was the creator of Mary Marvel. So the very concept of the female distaff counterpart of. Of the superhero.

24:43
Blue
Yeah, Bizarro created by Otto Bender.

24:46
Case Aiken
Yeah. That's just so nice. And, like, makes a lot of sense. And, like, the, like, the. The videos he leaves for him where it's like, just be kind, like, is so good. Like, it.

24:56
Jmike Folson
It.

24:57
Case Aiken
It's so wonderful. And, like, why did he bury him? Why? You know, and, like, Supergirl, like, understanding, like, this is not how you raise a weapon. This is how you raise a child. You know, it's. It's so loving and like, man, like, if you read up on his, like, later life after, like, dc, like, he. He had a lot of tragedy. He had. Had family loss and then, like, kind of died destitute and like, that, you know, it's really nice to, like, see a series like this, like, care about a creative who. Who had such a stamp on comics.

25:26
Red
Yeah, no kidding.

25:28
Blue
It's nice to see that for a show that is so compassionate within the world. There is, at least in this one area, who knows what else they've done that we just never picked up on, but a very calculated point to extend that thesis defining kindness of this show beyond the bounds of the world into something real. Yeah, it is very touching.

25:52
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

25:54
Red
Good stuff.

25:55
Case Aiken
Yeah. This season also starts off with us trying to fully understand the Kara and Jimmy relationship.

26:02
Red
Oh, my God.

26:03
Blue
That was set up in the Jimmy Fumblebird.

26:07
Red
And it's actually. I really like this because by the standards of the bullshit romantic subplot shenanigans of this show, this is one where I think the mistakes that are being made by the characters are the most interesting and the most justifiable because Jimmy starts from a correct assessment, which is that Kara should not be in a relationship right now. She was a groomed living weapon for her entire life. She's been, like, a free person for three weeks. And Jimmy is the first man she's ever spoken to who isn't her cousin. Like, he's like, no, we should not be having a relationship right now. Cara needs to figure herself out, and she needs to figure the world out. And then the problem is that Jimmy is also. Also not confident. So he's like. He comes to the correct conclusion.

26:49
Red
Like, Cara needs to figure out who she is. She needs to explore the world. She needs to meet other people. And then it turns into because I could never be good enough for her. And then when she goes out and explores the world, he's like, well, now I'm taking it personal because I don't think I'm good enough for her, but I don't want that to be vindicated. And so he just starts making all these catastrophic mistakes because he's. He's. He was correct in his first assessment, but he wasn't emotionally separated from it enough to actually continue to do the logical thing. And it's just kind of fascinating because it's such an absolutely hilarious, like, slow fall down the stairs for the entire season. And it's entirely his own fault. But it did start from a genuinely good place.

27:29
Blue
Yeah, I think that's correct. I will add to it that this subplot contains the thing about this season that I noticed, like, pissing me off as it happened, which is the propensity of random bullshit to interrupt the second before an important piece of information is divul. This happened to Superboy no more than three times in the episode where he shows up. It's like, hey, why did you come here? Oh, hey, I baked a pie. It's like, no, like, fucking stay on mission, people. Jesus Christ.

27:58
Red
I will say that.

27:59
Blue
And this happens to Jimmy so much,.

28:01
Red
That one's justified because I didn't want to tell anybody. And if anything, that's actually representative of another thing that I like, similar to the Jimmy, like, doing the right thing in the worst way possible. I like how they continue to do the trend that Lois Lane will be correct about things for a right reason and a wrong reason. So, like, when Jonathan shows up, initially, she's like, he can't possibly be our kid, because I'm terrified of the concept of the future. And also, hey, if you are a kid from the future, why are you here? And it's like, okay, one of those is like an irrational, like character anxiety that she's going to overcome over the course of the season. And the other one is a very good question that Jonathan is purposefully dodging.

28:37
Red
Like in season one where Lois is like, I have figured out that Clark is keeping a secret from me. Correct. And because I think of secrets as the exact same thing as lying, I'm personally offended that this guy I've known for four days didn't tell me this life shattering secret that my father would definitely stick him in a government facility to know. Like, again, she's right in a right way and a wrong way all the time. And I think it's so interesting as.

29:00
Blue
A character, you are completely right in a season that gives a little more time for any of these beats to breathe. However, the fact that it all happened so fast makes it look like some of these people are idiots.

29:11
Red
Yes. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

29:13
Jmike Folson
I mean, I think the funniest part about the Jimmy thing is that for the first two seasons, he was trying to make sure that Clark and Lois have their relationship things settled. And he's getting so mad at them because, oh, why would you cautious, admit that you like each other and then comes to Kara and like you said, he fumbles his way, falling down every flight of stairs the entire season. And you're just like, oh my gosh, dude, what is wrong with you?

29:36
Red
Coach don't play.

29:38
Blue
And it's like a character for whom everything is so straightforward. Kara does not like subtlety, is something that she can throw halfway across the planet. And for a character like Jimmy to try and dance around and be clever at. Jimmy, buddy, focus up. Come on, man.

29:58
Jmike Folson
She straight up tells him, hey, I want you to be my mate just like Lois and Clark are mates. And he's like, oh. And he's like, no, you should go do your own thing. And then Mr. It. She goes. She's like, I need all possible suitors to meet me at my booth. He's like, damn you, Buff. Jimmy, get away from her.

30:12
Blue
But the problem, I do like that she's like, oh, so it's a competition. So I win. I will defeat Jimmy Flame Bird.

30:18
Red
Truly the most like, yes. You told the proud warrior that this is a game that can be won, so of course she's going to win. I also loved how they used this as an excuse to speedrun all of the bullshit Jimmy Olsen Silver Age nonsense where it's like, oh my God, yes, this episode.

30:35
Case Aiken
Hold on, hold on. Let's pop pause. Well, let's Pause for a second. Because like that's episode three. And we're still like kind of. Yeah. Or kind of in episode one.

30:43
Red
Yeah, we're still in episode one.

30:45
Case Aiken
Like, but I, I love. We get the Challengers of the unknown references right there.

30:49
Jmike Folson
Yes.

30:50
Case Aiken
Which is a lot of fun. Like the couple's costume is great as they're like figuring their thing out. And then episode two is where Jimmy is like, no, I do need to have some distance from. From Kara because I like too much for this whole situation because he's awkward. And we also have Clark be like, no, Jimmy's never had a girlfriend as far as I know. Which is also kind of nice. We have a lot of socially awkward people in this show.

31:16
Red
Finally we feel seen.

31:17
Case Aiken
Yeah, I know, it's amazing.

31:20
Red
This is mobile suit Toyman. I'm trying to remember.

31:23
Case Aiken
They go to the Superman convention.

31:25
Red
Least crowded expo floor I've ever seen at a convention this size.

31:30
Blue
This must have been a Thursday morning. This must have been Thursday morning before that.

31:33
Red
Yeah, this must have been right when they were getting set up. These people were all here at rope drop.

31:37
Blue
Kind of insulting to put Supergirl on a panel on a Thursday. Like at least give her a Friday or Saturday slot.

31:42
Red
The lore implications of there being Teen Titans cosplayers when Superman has existed for like a year and a half tops. Like Deathstroke is going to beefing with one of those guys like tomorrow.

31:52
Case Aiken
Yeah.

31:53
Jmike Folson
Did we see a Robin cosplayer? I wasn't sure.

31:56
Red
No, we conspicuously didn't. They had the boy, Starfire and Raven, I don't think they have the rights to any of the Bat family. So they just kind of have to like mention Gothel them. That seems like. Cuz it's all dc, it's all this is. This has been a thing for years. There was a. The reason why they never have Batman show up in Teen Titans is because of like the Bat embargo. And also.

32:16
Case Aiken
And you watch season two of Justice League Unlimited or season three, I forget which.

32:20
Jmike Folson
Whatever, whatever.

32:21
Case Aiken
The last season of Justice League Unlimited they couldn't have Flash villains, so they couldn't have Batman villains.

32:27
Red
Really? I also remember in the Animated the Batman for the first three seasons it's all Batman doing year one stuff. And then. And then finally Teen Titans ends and immediately they're like, here's Dick Grayson, his parents are dead. Robin exists. Now let's fucking go speedrun. Strats.

32:44
Blue
Holy shit. You know what? I've heard about this anyway. Yeah, nevermind. Yeah, I mean some of it.

32:51
Case Aiken
It's different than the Marvel situation where they fully licensed out the rights. It's just kind of editorial lockdowns for characters and some of that goes into, like, other media kind of stuff.

33:02
Red
It's also. I've been watching through some Smallville recently, and it's funny because you know how when Arrow came out, everyone was like, oh, they want him to be Batman so badly. Smallville wanted Green Arrow to be Batman.

33:12
Case Aiken
First because everyone wants Green Arrow to.

33:14
Red
Be Batman because they can't have Batman. So they're like, who's another billionaire vigilante?

33:19
Jmike Folson
Ugh.

33:19
Red
I guess we can go with Oliver Queen, but we have to put him in stupid sunglasses so nobody can tell it's him anyway. Yeah. Bat embargo.

33:27
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

33:29
Case Aiken
Mobile suit Toyman. Like, so we get some of the lowest drama in terms of her weird neuroses about everything. In this case, it's directed entirely at Toyman.

33:38
Red
Yeah. Again, she's wrong and right about the same thing. She's wrong to be paranoid, but she is right to notice that Toyman is up to no good.

33:45
Case Aiken
But we get the most Gundam ass Toyman version that we could ever imagine, which.

33:49
Blue
This is a great direction for Toyman.

33:51
Red
Yeah. Yeah.

33:52
Case Aiken
Please. You've already ruined my life.

33:55
Red
I felt so bad for him until he revealed that he definitely built a giant robot. I was like, okay, they got my ass.

34:01
Blue
I do actually believe that Lois is like so laser focused in on the teddy bears that she doesn't notice the machine guns as part of his booth.

34:10
Red
Yeah. As soon as she unclenches a little, she's like, wait, I was right.

34:14
Blue
Wait a second.

34:15
Red
Introduces Cyborg Superman.

34:16
Case Aiken
Yes.

34:17
Blue
Yes.

34:17
Red
Yeah, I fully missed that he got injured in the Bizarro, not the bizarre attack. Likewise the Brainiac attack at the end.

34:24
Case Aiken
Of the first episode where they're like, henshaw, he needs machines to breathe. Was like, what?

34:28
Red
Hang on.

34:30
Case Aiken
I had to go and rewatch season two. Unfortunately, like, this is a show that like, alternates between being like a little too scary for a three year old and like being like, kind of okay for a three year old. And so, like, I re. I. I was rewatching some of it with my daughter and like, got to the part. I'm like, oh, no. Hank Henshaw is like the lead pilot that gets attacked by Brainiac.

34:51
Red
Yeah.

34:52
Case Aiken
And it was like, oh, okay, cool. Totally missed that. Totally, totally. Didn't remember that from the first season or from this season.

34:58
Red
They were covering a lot of ground. And who the cares about Hank Henshaw, honestly?

35:03
Case Aiken
Well, because in season one, when they introduced him, I was like, oh, cool. They made him an Adonis. He looks like Superman. That's actually, like, kind of a cool thing.

35:10
Blue
They gave him the curl.

35:11
Red
He's got the little curl. I thought that was very cool. Also, Bizarro showing up cosplaying Superman broke my goddamn heart at this point. I was like, wow, if anything happened to him, I. I'm blowing this entire show up.

35:24
Case Aiken
I was almost so mad later in the season. And then, like, they do a good thing with him where. Where it doesn't matter later. So. So.

35:31
Jmike Folson
But.

35:31
Case Aiken
But, yeah. So Hank Henshaw shows up as Cyborg Superman. And that is. Is great. I. I dig this interpretation of Hank Henshaw as Cyborg Superman. Like, yeah, like, I. I like the idea. For one thing, I like the idea that he's not pretending to be Superman. He's pretending to be a replacement for Superman that happens to be human.

35:50
Red
The all American homegrown Superman. Why would we rely on the mercy of violent aliens when we can rely on the mercy of billionaires instead? I think that Hank as Cyborg Superman is so interesting because it really highlights how these guys can't even convincingly pretend to care about the people they're protecting. The closest they get later on is Hank being like, wow, you need these people to like you so much. And it's like, that's the only way you can conceive of heroism is the adoration of the crowd. It doesn't occur to you that he might actually care about these people because you don't care about these people. I forgot the whip is in this episode.

36:25
Case Aiken
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

36:27
Red
Okay. Speaking directly for the horniest parts of the writer's room, 24 7, our queen. Honestly.

36:35
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

36:35
Case Aiken
Like, such a non sequitur in terms of, like, the actual story. It's just a MacGuffin to, like, pull Superman away, but at the same time, it's like, oh, okay, we're gonna have a character who is just whipping Superman with kryptonite whiffs.

36:46
Red
Yeah. They accidentally left the script notes in where they say he's cute when he suffers. And she just says the line,.

36:55
Jmike Folson
You do this for fun.

36:56
Blue
Coming off of, like, watching the Odyssey movie, seeing this many women written so well is such a breath of fresh air. Every woman in the show is just a joy on screen.

37:06
Red
Christopher Nolan has no excuse.

37:07
Blue
None. Also, we're not getting into it.

37:09
Red
Jessica Cruz, future Green Lantern, is the one who says that super is brave in a way that Superman, like, Superman's fine, but Supergirl is Brave. And I think that's very cute. Also, this is such a minor note. I'm just looking through my notes. I love that Lex is basically Jimmy's nemesis and not really Superman. Lex and Jimmy keep having their, like, Death Note shit happening while Superman's just like, sir, I'm going to ask you to step away from the giant robot.

37:33
Case Aiken
But also, wasn't the voice of Jessica Cruz. I'm just double checking this right now. The girl from Moana.

37:40
Red
Oh, was it? I have no idea.

37:42
Case Aiken
And I'm gonna butcher this because she.

37:45
Jmike Folson
Hang on.

37:47
Case Aiken
Checking.

37:47
Blue
Yeah, it's pronounced Dwayne Johnson.

37:50
Red
Bang, bang, bang.

37:52
Jmike Folson
It is.

37:52
Case Aiken
For starters, it's a cravalho.

37:58
Red
Yeah, it is. Yeah, yeah. Cool.

38:00
Jmike Folson
Is she gonna end up playing Jessica Cruz in her own show when it comes out?

38:04
Case Aiken
There's gonna be my adventures with Green Lantern, and she's gonna be the feature for it.

38:07
Red
That's really cool.

38:08
Case Aiken
So it was a nice little, like, tease there.

38:10
Red
Big year for Green Lantern.

38:12
Case Aiken
Yes, yes. Also that. But she was just, like, a delightful moment. And she, like, explained the difference between Superman and Supergirl in a way that, like, was really inspiring right there. So that was very cool. And also, we get more of Supergirl being like, I will find a mate.

38:27
Red
Yeah, Yeah. I like that cat isn't deliberately trying to, like, sabotage her or put her on the spot, but does just ask her the hard question. It is also an interesting way to set it up that, like, by having the city have a lot of super people in it. Before episode five, the death of Superman, they kind of do this interesting thing where it's like, instead of it being like, oh, my God, without Superman, who's gonna protect the city? It's a little bit more like, no. Getting Superman back has different stakes than that. It's not like we are immediately gonna get bulldozed by Godzilla. Like, we have a lot of super people in the city. It's more like how, you know, what does he represent? How can help? That kind of thing.

39:05
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

39:06
Red
And going Cyborg Superman first, I think is a really interesting way to play up that conversation again of, like, what makes him Superman. Because it's clearly not his powers and it's not his.

39:17
Blue
Looks like this is in the mouth of. Of General Lane in episode seven, where it's like losing Superman, like, when he lost his powers, like, we could deal with that, but it's when Clark died that everything went to hell. Yeah, we're getting ahead of ourselves.

39:30
Red
This show really launched likes Clark Kent, and I respect it. So Much for it.

39:35
Case Aiken
But it is a season that makes us ask, how valuable is Clark Kent? And makes Clark question himself without being. What am I? Without being Superman. And we, the audience and the characters around him understand that Clark Kent has so much value, but he can't see it necessarily because he sees himself as his powers in a lot of ways.

40:00
Red
I think that. Well, it's interesting, too, because, you know, Clark spent a long time afraid of his powers. And it's always fun when you get a character going through an arc that, at a different time in their development, would have been exactly what they wanted. Two seasons ago, if Clark could have been legitimately normal, he would have jumped Ordinary Man. Yeah, he would love to be Adventures of a Normal Man. But now he's gotten to the point where he's like, there's a place in this world for Superman. He's like, well, now I really fucking miss. Miss him. I think the thing that, like, that makes this version of Superman so significant is that he is so kind.

40:31
Red
And the fact that he is an incredibly powerful person who is kind is noteworthy, but it's noteworthy to be kind whether or not you can pick up a building and move it, you know, somewhere else. Like, yeah. The fact that he still is the one who takes the compassionate human angle on everything, even if he can't, you know, block bullets is what's significant about him. But it's also the thing that's invisible to him that he doesn't recognize as a character trait because he's like, I'm just trying to do the right thing. It's like, yeah, that alone, that is significant.

40:59
Blue
It's so second nature for him that he doesn't even consider it part of his, like, we're getting ahead of ourselves. I didn't do anything. It's like, you saved a kid.

41:07
Red
That makes me so mad. Clark can't be nice to my friend right now.

41:14
Case Aiken
But, yeah. So to round out episode two conversation, really enjoyed the Toyman. Really enjoyed, like, the setup for a lot of the characters here. It's still that slow burn that the opening part of the season really gets to. Yeah. So I think that's, like, all I really want to say about episode two. Moving on to episode three. And this is where we get the goddamn Jimmy Olsen bullshit.

41:35
Red
Seductively.

41:35
Blue
Worms.

41:37
Red
Those fucking subtitles.

41:40
Case Aiken
Yes, worms.

41:41
Jmike Folson
Worms. Worms.

41:43
Blue
Worms.

41:43
Jmike Folson
Worms.

41:44
Red
Ruby and Sapphire ass scientists.

41:47
Blue
The sound effects on this show go so hard in such weird directions. I clocked the vine boom in episode five. I clocked. No, sorry, it was the Cinemasins hit at episode Five and the vine boom at the gala. It's insane how far they went with some of the sound effects and like the constant, like the. With the flame bird. And then the worms. Worms seductively underneath the show. And the sound effects team, I swear.

42:13
Jmike Folson
To God, they're having fun. They're having so much fun.

42:16
Red
Yeah. Yeah.

42:17
Case Aiken
I immediately clocked Vella Lovel as Giganta in this episode. Like the second she started talking, it's like, I know who that is. You're the girl from Crazy Ex Girlfriend and also my advent. Also she references to the power.

42:32
Red
Oh, wait, who is she in that?

42:33
Case Aiken
She is the mermaid.

42:35
Red
Mermista.

42:36
Case Aiken
I think so.

42:36
Red
No fucking way. That's awesome.

42:38
Blue
That's really funny. I need that coffee shop au tomorrow.

42:42
Red
I love how this episode is kind of doing three things at once because there's the Jimmy Olsen bullshit Power Hour. There's Hank immediately fumbling the bag on winning the hearts and minds of Metropolis because he cannot even convincingly pretend to care about people. And there's this fascinating little miscommunication between Clark and Lois about the future because this is the part where Clark is like, oh, man, this beautiful little Barn where Clark Jr. Can play baseball and maybe we'll have a dog. And Lois is just like, ha, cool. And it's just such a fascinating little bit of like, character disconnect. Because Clark is a compassionate guy. If Lois just said, hey, I'm not ready for this yet, like, we're moving way too fast, he'd immediately be like, oh, cool, because we see that later.

43:23
Red
But she can't do that because there's still a part of her that's like, well, I can't express vulnerability and be a burden on anything. Thanks, dad. It's like, whoa, Nelly.

43:31
Blue
So she's fascinating the ways that rears its head this season.

43:34
Red
Yeah, she's making her own problems for herself in a way that is so indicative of like, who she is deep down. And between this and the 2025 Superman movie, it's been a really good year for like. Like, Clark is a sentimental softie and Lois is like an absolute hard edged, like, ball of Nobody can see me vulnerable or I'll die. And I just think that's so interesting. I guess it's easier to be vulnerable when you are also bulletproof.

44:01
Jmike Folson
Profound.

44:02
Case Aiken
Yeah, that's a really good assessment of the season.

44:05
Red
Makes you think, doesn't it?

44:07
Case Aiken
But I love the little model thread which, like, he bought off of fucking Toyman.

44:14
Red
You forgot your mitt. He's Such a weirdo. I love it. I love that this is who Clark wants to be, you know, because he's like, being Superman is ruining Clark Kent's weekend. I just want to sit here with my little diorama kit and paint my little miniatures of me.

44:28
Jmike Folson
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the first one, the second one, there's no dog.

44:31
Red
We'll need your government id.

44:34
Blue
He's like, just the look in his eyes is like, ugh, can't I just.

44:38
Red
Have the dog because I'm Superman?

44:40
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

44:42
Blue
I did love when Jimmy kept calling him because he was getting turned into a monster by Giganta. And Clark is like, jimmy, I need you to lock the fuck in. You're not an emergency. I need you to do your own shit.

44:51
Case Aiken
So I love the Flamebird watches. I wanted to talk about those because it's such a great call out to the signal watch that Jimmy historically has, which is just a great detail there. It's a nice modern update because the technology of this whole series is slightly in the future. Not counting the crazy robots which are super far in the future kind of stuff there, which is great. And then, yes, we start this whole thread through the season of all the weird ass transformations that Jimmy goes through. Werewolf fucking Jimmy right off the bat, which has happened more than once in the comics.

45:26
Red
Also werewolf Jimmy. Really given Lupin the third, for some reason, I think it's the addition of the sideburns. Yeah, yeah. Unnecessary. But I love it.

45:34
Blue
I love how much this show loves other animation. I mean, dbz, Sailor Moon, obviously. But like, there's so much that this show loves from other source material and is willing to incorporate.

45:43
Red
Lupin has. Yeah, Jimmy has that gangly build that lends itself well to the Lupin physical comedy school. Also, there was a brief little. Wait, is this also the episode where Kara and Lois have their girls night? They like, go to the mall?

45:55
Case Aiken
Yes. Yeah.

45:56
Red
I didn't take what episodes. Yeah. But I love the little Black Canary reference where Lois is like, I listened to her as a kid. Clara is like, is it normal to only listen to music you found as a child? And I was like, okay, ouch.

46:09
Jmike Folson
Yeah. No,.

46:13
Case Aiken
As I listen to Jimmy world,.

46:16
Red
I think it's cute because there's frequently like, they do Black Canary and then her daughter is also Black Canary. So it's conceivable that there was like a Black Canary superhero in running around when Lois was a kid. And now there might be another one. I thought that was kind of a cute little nod. And just like Kara discovering Earth music and being and just Earth culture and fashion and being like, wow, you can embrace so much fascinating change. This is awesome. And Lois being like, now, what if I'm content? Actually, what if I don't want to change? What if I just figured out who I am and I'm happy with that? And I. I don't know. It's just such a beautiful little way to illustrate. All these characters are foils to each other in such interesting ways that, like, reveal things about one another.

46:56
Red
And I think this was super fun.

46:59
Jmike Folson
Yeah, we're going to go punch the town.

47:04
Blue
Hit the town, Protect Kara Zor El at all costs.

47:07
Case Aiken
I know there's something about a character who just does not understand idioms that is, like, just so refreshing. Even though it's like, a. It's a trope that has been done a million times. But at the same time, I'm just like, I do enjoy this. This would be a good trope to have a. Here's the thing.

47:22
Blue
It's a trope that thrives in restraint. It's so easy to go overboard and ruin it. But they give Chara, like, two or three of them all season, and the rest of it is just her being very straightforward and forthright to an uncommon degree. So they don't rely on that as, like, oh, the Draxisms of, like, nothing goes over my head. I would catch it. And that's his character for every fucking movie.

47:47
Red
Let's be real.

47:47
Blue
For the whole mcu.

47:49
Red
This is the Teen Titans starfireification of the token alien teammate.

47:53
Blue
Sure.

47:54
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

47:55
Red
And I think it works great for Kara because it's one of many things they do to sort of physically show how different she is from the way that Clark was raised. And there's a lot of thought that goes into the physical actions of the characters. I was talking about this even as early as season one. One of the things I like that they do with Superman is that in combat, he normally keeps his mouth shut. It's a minor thing, but is the thing I noticed as a comic artist is, like, when you want to show somebody, like, bracing against a strong hit, you often show them, like, gritting their teeth. If their mouth is just kind of neutrally closed, it implies that they're not really exerting themselves very much.

48:28
Red
So, like, Clark will be tanking crazy hits with a completely neutral expression because they aren't hurting him. And they do the same thing with Hank to signify how little he, like, how powerful he truly is. And they do that with Cara, but they also have her floating constantly because she was never taught to float. She. Why not? Flying is the easiest way for her to move around. Clark can fly, but he doesn't like doing it because it clearly shows how alien he is. So all of Cara's body language is someone who's completely confident in her abilities. They come completely naturally to her and she uses them all the time.

48:59
Blue
And she sleeps flying.

49:00
Red
She sleeps floating. It's so cute. Oh, God.

49:03
Case Aiken
She likes kind of talks to herself in her dreams and just like, it's great. I wanted to pet the dog.

49:08
Red
She's so fucking cute. This is the Kara season. Really?

49:12
Case Aiken
It's so good.

49:13
Red
She'll call it my adventure, the Supergirl. Am I right?

49:16
Jmike Folson
Right.

49:17
Case Aiken
Well, and that again, getting back to the whole, like, it is good that this season came out this summer because this is the summer of Supergirl.

49:24
Red
Yeah, yeah.

49:25
Case Aiken
In its own way.

49:25
Jmike Folson
But.

49:26
Red
Okay, take two. Then they absolutely nail it.

49:29
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah. So aside from Giganta showing up and sort of like setting up this old, like, oh, well, we've got weird animals, normal mutating thing or like mutating poison things out there that will have payoff in a later episode. Like, I don't think there's that much more to say about this episode because it's still part of the like, the.

49:47
Jmike Folson
Build up for like the Superman non endorsement segments they do. And I was like, that's hilarious.

49:57
Blue
This does not constitute an endorsement.

49:59
Red
Yeah, Say what you will about worms. Worms, but at least they are ethical.

50:03
Blue
Yeah, yeah. God, that's really. I did like that. Jimmy was supposed to be on assignment for like the. Whatever the word was of the person who's like transforming people. And then he's on the date with Giganta and he's like, yeah, I'm supposed to be like doing this research about this person who's transforming people into animals. And Giganta's like, whoa, that's crazy. Anyway, drink this.

50:21
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

50:22
Red
I thought that was amazing. I also love how. Listen, it's a tale as old as time, but I love that anytime they have a really big carrot, they gotta climb a skyscraper and swat some flying things out of the air while holding somebody screaming, we gotta get that King Kong reference in there somewhere. And it may as well be here.

50:38
Case Aiken
Yeah.

50:38
Jmike Folson
When she was downsizing, she was like, oh, my gosh, you're so kind, so warm, so thoughtful.

50:42
Red
Yeah. I stop you right there, ma'.

50:43
Jmike Folson
Am.

50:43
Red
I'm in a committed relationship.

50:47
Blue
This was great because also earlier when Superman is like, okay, this is a problem. I have to deal with it. And the two ladies in Charge of worms are like, we got back together. And, like, whatever, I need to go. And he flies off and does it.

51:00
Red
I got a minor point. Superman's secret identity has to be in shambles after this scene.

51:04
Case Aiken
Oh, my God. I have a note about that.

51:06
Red
Where it's like, they're truly just hanging out with Kara 24 7. It's like Superman hangs out with Kara, Lois, and Jimmy. Clark Kent hangs out with Kara, Lois, and Jimmy. Superman and Clark Kent are never in the same room together. Everyone has to know. Right.

51:19
Case Aiken
Well, can we talk about.

51:21
Blue
We'll talk about John crashing the Cheesecake Factory later.

51:24
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah, we're about to. We're about to talk about it, John.

51:28
Red
I swear to God.

51:29
Case Aiken
So. So we get the tease of, like, Jon going back in time, I believe, at the end of this episode.

51:34
Red
Yeah, we. I think we see. Because that's the part where they're like. Like, Lois and Clark have their little, like, heart to heart about, like, oh, you know, the future doesn't need to come on too fast. Then it's like, the future. It's an absolute nightmare. And a horror show.

51:47
Case Aiken
Yeah. So this brings us to episode four, which is the.

51:51
Jmike Folson
The.

51:52
Case Aiken
The crazy thing that they do in this season, which is that they introduce Jon Kent, who's not the same as Jonathan Kent or Jonathan Lane. Pardon me?

52:00
Red
Oh, well, I mean, he's the same guy. He just grew up. Completely different.

52:04
Case Aiken
Completely different.

52:05
Red
Yeah.

52:06
Case Aiken
Both from dystopian futures.

52:08
Red
Yes.

52:09
Case Aiken
But in one, the cyborg Superman wins, and another, the eradicator wins.

52:13
Red
Yeah.

52:15
Case Aiken
And so we get who's. Guess who's slamming to dinner. And we get all. All, like, this is where we get all the slammin line, which is so iconic to the. Specifically the death and return of Superman arc of Superboy, which is interesting.

52:33
Jmike Folson
Yes.

52:33
Case Aiken
As Blue mentioned, they go to the Cheesecake Factory, or as they call it in this universe, the Pound Cake Palace.

52:38
Red
Yeah. Dude, I wish I could go to a beautiful restaurant and then just order a basket of pound cakes. I'd never leave.

52:46
Case Aiken
So let's talk for a second about Jon Kent versus Jonathan Lane.

52:52
Red
Yes.

52:52
Case Aiken
I think this is so interesting because when we first see Jon Kent, we're like, oh, that's the guy who we see in the opening credits. And it's not. No, it is Jonathan Lane.

53:02
Red
He doesn't have the eye scar.

53:03
Case Aiken
He doesn't have the eye scar. He doesn't have the sword.

53:05
Red
Although I will say they cheat a little bit because Jon and Jonathan have different outfits. And the one in the opening is neither of Their outfits, it's just a little bit different from both of them. Like, Jon has these, like, yellow knee pads, but Jonathan has these black knee pads. No yellow in his outfit at all. And the one in the opening, it's kind of in the middle. Admittedly, the most off model this show ever gets is when it's drawing the really complicated costumes. So maybe not that indicative, but yeah, they're playing around with timelines in this one.

53:31
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

53:32
Case Aiken
Multiverse theory is a. I hope so.

53:36
Red
This is my.

53:37
Case Aiken
Again, I hope so. This, this is the. I think this is why we're synced up here, because I was like the fact that we don't get Jon Kent at the end of the season to at least establish that he's still okay.

53:47
Red
Huh. That's the thing. I. This show, I think, needed to dedicate 30 seconds to clarifying what kind of time travel we're doing.

53:57
Case Aiken
Yes.

53:58
Red
Because there are two options, and I think meta, narratively, they have to be going with the multiverse one, because if they don't do that, if they do the way that the DC universe normally does, time travel, where there is one timeline, there's one future, it leads to the legion of Superheroes. If you around with the timeline, the legion stops existing. You know, that kind of thing. If we're doing that, then the minute those super kids go back to their future, they are ceasing to exist. And that. That's existentially horrifying. And I don't think they're going for that because that feels like the kind of thing someone had to bring up.

54:35
Red
And it feels like they're keeping it intentionally vague because there's that bit at the very end of the season where Lara is like, oh, you know, I guess we'll see you there, or we'll miss you. Unless you're gonna be there in the future. It's like, well, maybe I don't know. And it's like, no, you kind of have to answer that question. I need to know if these kids are about to blip themselves out of existence when they leave. So it seems like they have to be doing like, branching paths thing. So there's the future where Jon is from, and then there's the future where Jonathan is from. And they're different. But the problem there is the entire reason they're going back to the past is to fix their futures, which means they're changing the past to change the future.

55:10
Jmike Folson
Right.

55:11
Red
It feels like the show is saying, when you change the past, you change the future, you alter your own timeline. You are overwritten, written by a new version of you who lived through that timeline. We're not doing Silver the Hedgehog rules. You don't get to remember the timelines. You've changed. But then we're creating the thing where as soon as those kids disappear, they're gone forever. And it doesn't feel like that's what they're trying to set up. And I do think there's evidence that we're doing multiple timelines, because there's the Eradicator talks a lot of at the end about, like, I've been going through multiple timelines and killing Superman and a bunch of them, you know, mostly for fun.

55:39
Red
So it's like, okay, we are doing multiple timelines, and we have that glimpse of at like alternate Lois and Jimmy and Lex and stuff from another timeline. So it seems like we're doing alternate timelines. But in that case, what did the super kids actually accomplish by going back to the past? Because if it doesn't change their future, what was the fucking point? And the way they reconcile. That's the thing, the way they reconcile this in DBZ is that Trunks going back to the past, he gets so much stronger because he's training with all these people, all these heroes.

56:07
Jmike Folson
Thank you.

56:08
Case Aiken
This is exactly what I was, like, about to jump in on. So.

56:10
Red
Yeah, yeah. And then he goes back to the future, and he can solo 1v2, both androids and create a better future, even though the people who he, you know, spend all the time in the past with, they're dead because he can't bring them back. I didn't really get that vibe from what happened with Jon and with Jonathan and Lara. It kind of just feels like they go back to the past, they do all this stuff, they blip into the future, and we never see them again. And it. I don't know. I don't think the show intended to freak me out this much, but I couldn't stop thinking about this. I was. Was like, if the show was saying these kids don't exist anymore, but then they say that outright. Lois is like, jonathan doesn't remember anything. Oh, no. His entire life was different.

56:47
Red
And I was like, that's so John's dead.

56:50
Case Aiken
Clark says that exact line. He's like, by going by. By changing his past, we've completely rewritten his future.

56:57
Red
Terrifying.

56:58
Case Aiken
And I. I had the exact same reaction.

57:00
Red
Yeah. Yeah.

57:01
Case Aiken
And if this season had a. A post credits where we got to see. See the thing that's in Dragon Ball.

57:07
Red
Uhhuh. John and Jonathan go to Their futures and kick ass and take names and the world is fine. Just do that.

57:15
Jmike Folson
Right.

57:15
Case Aiken
Because, I mean, in both scenarios, they fought, like, the worst version of the guy anyway. Like, Jon fought Cyborg Superman directly, and Jonathan fought an eradicator that evolved past what was capable of the eradicator. Yeah, well, but, like, the eradicators were all being controlled by. By Lex. By Lex. And so they were, like, constrained from, like, their abilities. This one, like, was allowed to evolve and turn into Zod, apparently.

57:39
Red
We'll get. We'll get there. We'll get there. They made such interesting choices with him.

57:43
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

57:43
Case Aiken
Yeah. So, like, having those moments would have. Would have. Like, having some version of that epilogue would have been amazing. And they don't. And that kind of sucks because I like both characters for different reasons.

57:55
Red
Yeah.

57:56
Case Aiken
Like, they softball us with Jon Kent first, who is way more just affable.

58:02
Red
I'll say this. Jonathan is a serious downgrade.

58:05
Jmike Folson
Yeah. John is the bestest boy.

58:07
Case Aiken
He's so. He's so pissy. And like, the. You know, like, they're so taken aback because Jon is the bestest boy.

58:14
Red
Yeah.

58:15
Case Aiken
And then Jonathan is, like, all, like, pissy and emo. And also Lara has, like, you know, giant, like, anxiety issues that she's inherited from her parents.

58:23
Red
Yeah.

58:24
Case Aiken
Like, John does everything that his parents does, like, do in the best of ways. Like, he has, like, all these, like, mannerisms of his mom. And at the same time, like, he saves people without a thought. He, like, is a symbol of hope. Like, he unites us with the. The.

58:40
Red
The.

58:42
Case Aiken
What is it? The pterosaurus.

58:44
Red
Yeah. The subterranean dinosaur people.

58:46
Case Aiken
Yeah. Subterranean source, whatever.

58:48
Blue
Subterranean.

58:50
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

58:52
Red
It's so cute.

58:53
Case Aiken
And even postulates that he is the one who created the peace treaty between humanity and them, which doesn't make sense.

59:00
Red
Because stable time loops. That's fine.

59:03
Case Aiken
I know. I mean, stable time loops are great in certain series. Like in Gargoyle. Stable time loops are amazing.

59:08
Red
Sure. Yeah.

59:09
Case Aiken
But you have to plan those in advance.

59:11
Red
That's the thing. The rule of a stable time loop is you can't change the future. And the whole point of everyone coming back in time is to change the future. And I don't know, man, it's. I'm not sure how they could reconcile it because it seems like they're just kind of pointing at the multiverse and being, like, timelines. We got more than one of them now. Don't worry about it. But at that point, it's like how wild it would have been if we had Jonathan hanging out. And then John Shows up like, hey, I forgot my skates. Hey, what's going on? Who's this guy? Like, at least just confirm that both the boys are fine. But. Yeah, yeah.

59:42
Red
And I think we're supposed to be this hung up on it because Jonathan is so intentionally Abraham compared to Jon, who's just kind of a sweet boy ray of sunshine. And you can really tell that Kara raised him because he's just so wonderful. And then Gohan and they just kind of. Yeah, yeah. Kara got the Gohan treatment. Dying heroically in some kind off screen final stance.

01:00:02
Case Aiken
So good again. We fucking called the future trunk scenario. We just didn't call that they would do it twice.

01:00:07
Red
Yeah, they got our asses, man. We're jumping ahead a little bit because this is still Jon. We haven't yet gotten into the multiple multiverse theories.

01:00:15
Case Aiken
I do really like the flash forward of seeing Kara as. And this is the next episode. But like, seeing Cara as the trainer is like. Is really good. Like, it's. It's so cool. We get to see her with like a future look where she has, like, longer hair and stuff.

01:00:27
Jmike Folson
Like, that's.

01:00:28
Case Aiken
That's very cool.

01:00:28
Red
Just so cute that she, who was raised so terribly gets to raise a child so well. And you can see that moment where present Cara is like, oh, my God, I successfully raised this kid. Me. Holy. There's hope after all. Yeah.

01:00:43
Jmike Folson
I was super excited when I saw her. I was like, she's gonna be. She's gonna be his Gohan. And I was like, oh, she's gonna be his Gohan.

01:00:51
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:00:52
Red
God damn.

01:00:53
Jmike Folson
And they did the whole little nod to the arm thing because she has an armband on her arm. And I was like, yeah.

01:01:03
Case Aiken
So we get more of the cyborg Superman plots as this develops, but like, you know, like the big action sequences, the subterraneanosauri that show up and John, like, brokers peace with them. And that's really cool. And like, we get lots of, like, we get like shopping montages with them, which is really fun.

01:01:18
Red
We can.

01:01:18
Blue
Yeah, yeah, get him the jacket.

01:01:20
Case Aiken
Yeah, getting the jacket. Which, like, really good look. I enjoy the costumes in this season. Like end of season two, I was not a big fan of the Superman costume that they presented. Like, it didn't look as good.

01:01:32
Blue
They kept drawing it wrong. A lot of animation mistakes with it upgrading him.

01:01:37
Red
And then it's worse looking than his normal outfit. I like that in this season they took a sort of more super Sailor Moon approach to his upgraded outfits in that it's more of a palette swap. With a little bit of extra gold trim rather than, like, pointy shoulder pads and shit.

01:01:51
Case Aiken
Anyway, no, I'm totally with you on that one. Like, I still prefer the season one slash season two look of Superman over the one that we had in the season. But you know what? It's subdued enough that I don't really mind like, the gold trim and stuff like, on it. It looks fine. And you know what? I like the Supergirl look.

01:02:07
Red
Yeah.

01:02:07
Blue
I love the scarf.

01:02:10
Red
Scarf. The little cowl kind of thing she could use, but she doesn't. It's so cute.

01:02:14
Case Aiken
I like the skirt that she has along with the long pants underneath. I think that's a good design choice.

01:02:20
Blue
Yeah, it's a good combo.

01:02:21
Case Aiken
Yeah. Like, for the Supergirl, like, she, like, I don't want to say, like, chased in a way that is, like, virginal or something like that, but, like, it's just again, like that. That sort of like. No, she understands all the concepts here, but, like. But it's not hyper sexualized or anything like that.

01:02:38
Red
She's a battle armor kind of person, so she'll wear something that works as armor. I also like how we've also got the. The sort of, like, Lex Deathstroke divorce arc starts in this season. This episode. I love how Lex has an. Again, the characters are making mistakes that make sense for them because Lex is a genius and an egotist and is therefore, like, I can't be taken by surprise because I am super smart and in control. And meanwhile, Deathstroke is like, dude, I am this guy's type. Like, I. There's a part where, like, Lex is like, oh, I think it's a firm hand. Never fails with these types. And Deathstroke says, I am that type. It's like, Deathstroke is like, you idiot. I am a crazy killer, man. This is not gonna work out. Good for you. I just thought that was so fun.

01:03:23
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:03:23
Case Aiken
And this is where we get, like, the. The rise of the cyborg Superman as he, like, slowly, like, figures out Lex's thing. And you. And this is where you think it is a stable time loop. Because this episode has John seemingly doing the. The dinosaur piece thing. This has the cyborg Superman, like, kind of revolting in a way that is, like, consistent with, like, the history that they're aware of. But part of that is influenced by Superman Super Boy's actions.

01:03:48
Red
Yeah.

01:03:49
Case Aiken
So. So it all kind of fits there as we get into.

01:03:52
Red
It doesn't actually make sense because Jon would have to be born at this point because he's Alive at this point? No. There's that photo of him and Lois holding baby John. He has to have been born by the time Cyborg Superman killed Clark. So this is accelerated. And it's. It's a little confusing because it didn't seem like Jonathan did or did anything to accelerate the timeline that much. But it is possible that just, like, his presence maybe caused a kind of butterfly effect. And the part where he's like, I thought we had more time, is like, yeah, he probably thought we had, like, a few years before Cyborg Superman ended the world or something like that. But this is also where the time travel starts getting a little wobbly.

01:04:30
Red
And it's like, I want to know what the rules are, but the show is not interested in telling me no.

01:04:34
Case Aiken
Now all of a sudden, Batman's Michael Keaton.

01:04:40
Jmike Folson
I mean, do you think they DVZ it where they sent trucks back in time? And because he came back in time, there's more androids this time.

01:04:48
Case Aiken
Do I hear five?

01:04:49
Red
This is the wrong eradicator, actually.

01:04:53
Blue
Oops.

01:04:53
Jmike Folson
My bad, guys.

01:04:54
Red
Yeah, yeah.

01:04:57
Case Aiken
I mean, it's just, like. It's so funny because they introduce us to a version of John Kent, who is so charming in this era. He seems. He has such good intentions. He likes the spicy food, like, Lois. They have soup on a roof together. And, like, that's. That's fantastic. As a callback, like, I actually kind.

01:05:14
Blue
Of want to defend the John to Jonathan switcheroo because, like, when Lois is the most, like, oh, gosh, Clark, like, you're. You want to, like, start this new chapter, but, like, things are good. Like, what if we just stayed here forever? And then, like, you get the best possible version of, like, oh, you have a kid, and actually, he's amazing. It's like, oh, it's fantastic. Like, you did great. You raised him right. Like, you don't realize who raised him right, but he was raised right. And it's like, oh, actually, like, fantastic. Maybe this will be fine. And then you get Baiton switched into Jonathan Lane and Lara Lane. It's like, oh, actually, like, kids are hard.

01:05:52
Red
Yeah.

01:05:53
Blue
And when they get into the teenage phase, they start having complex, like, things they need to work through, and they don't necessarily want your help with it. And it's. I think it was interesting to have, like, get Lois invested in. Like, oh, I will actually die for this person who is my son. And now that I am invested in, I will die for my child, and I will do anything for them. Now I have to try to have A heart to heart with someone who does not want to have it. And then you get her in that pipeline more and you can deal with, like, okay, we're gonna have kind of like a snippy kind of a bastard, like, real pain in the butt.

01:06:29
Blue
Abrasive Jonathan Lane in a way that, like, fits and works, where, like, would have been a real tough sell to just start with that. But also, I think it is a service to Lois's character to put her in the situation where she has one kid who's really abrasive and one kid who's very unsure of herself. And she manages to give Lara the pep talk and get her, like, all jazzed up to go fight the eradicator and be able to overcome that and be like, no, actually, like, okay, I didn't necessarily want this to happen soon, but, like, I am, in fact, a great mom. Actually, actually, I, I, I rock at this.

01:07:01
Red
In fact, to be clear, I think the John to Jonathan downgrade was 100% intentional. He's perfectly designed to be so fucking annoying, especially compared to Jon, who we love our unproblematic fave. But I also really like how, like, Lois goes from, like, I wouldn't be a good mom to like, oh, Jonathan, John's great, actually, to suddenly being like, oh, this is what happens when I'm solo parenting both kids. Oh, looks like I default to being my dad, it turns out. And this is, you know, if we assume that the timeline is branching off the moment that Jonathan and Lara come back, this Lois would just grow up to become that person if she lost Clark. And we see that with General Lane in the sort of alternate timeline team.

01:07:42
Red
And I think it's super interesting because it's like, it shows, the first one shows Lois how far she's come, and the second one shows her how badly she could still fuck this up. Regardless of how far she's come and how much, she still kind of needs Clark, or at least to understand Clark influence. And I think that's really cool because you end up with a version of. Also, it's heavily implied that Kara dies at some point, like, because she doesn't have a hand in raising Jonathan. Because I feel like she would have stepped in with Lois. Raising her kids as living weapons is like, okay, Lois Lane. We are not doing this again.

01:08:13
Case Aiken
Actually, we're not doing this. Lois Lane.

01:08:16
Red
Yeah, yeah. So I, I think that Jonathan, basically, her two kids showing up, presenting her with the failures of her own future selves. Parenting, I think, is an incredibly interesting and important lesson. And for that to Jonathan and Lara, both need to be very troubled youths. And I think it's super interesting. But Jonathan is very clearly designed to be tremendously irritating to watch so that we miss John more and kind of want the time. And again, that's the part where I'm like, what are the rules of time travel? Because if we're doing multiverses, both of these Johns are running around out there, and you'll just get to producing a third John who's somewhere in the middle or whatever. So, anyway, we'll find out in a future season. I'm sure.

01:08:59
Jmike Folson
I.

01:09:00
Case Aiken
No, I mean, like, I'm so with you on this. I'm just double checking, like, the casting. I'm assuming it's the same actor for both.

01:09:06
Red
I'm sure it's the same guy playing both versions of John. I mean, if they got the same guy.

01:09:10
Case Aiken
Yeah. Darren Kresser.

01:09:11
Red
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:12
Case Aiken
But, but, yeah. I mean, like, we have such a wonderful dynamic with. With this Superboy who, like, gets to have all the, like, the. The strange 90smith of the archetypal, like, Con El Conor. Like SuperBoy of the 90s, but it's because he's from this weird dystopian future.

01:09:32
Red
Yeah, yeah. They're hitting us with the Batman beyond slang lingo almost.

01:09:37
Blue
Shway.

01:09:38
Red
Shway.

01:09:38
Blue
Yeah, yeah.

01:09:40
Case Aiken
But then we move on to the death of Superman, where, like. Well, actually, pardon me, before we do that, I do want to just call out, Jimmy's always fucking right. Any sort of hypothesis he has about a weird thing is absolutely correct. When they're talking about earthquakes, it's like, oh, it's the dinosaurs underground. And we're all like, that's insane. And then like, oh, I just thought the past was, like, wonkier or, like, wobblier. Wobblier. Yes. And then the subterraneanosauri show up and John is like, oh, yeah, it's them.

01:10:06
Red
Yeah, yeah, the subterranosauri. We've all seen it.

01:10:09
Case Aiken
So. So all great stuff. But then we move on to the Death of Superman episode, which is the Death of Superman Asterisk.

01:10:18
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:10:20
Case Aiken
Not Clark Kent.

01:10:21
Red
Well, in the same way that they did the Death of Clark Kent in season two. And were like, what does that mean?

01:10:26
Case Aiken
Huh?

01:10:26
Red
And it means Black Mercy episode. Right, yeah.

01:10:30
Case Aiken
The only episode that doesn't open with, like, the. The basic introduction, like the basic title sequence.

01:10:35
Red
Yeah. I guess the vibes would have been a little off if they went from that to.

01:10:38
Jmike Folson
Yeah, yeah.

01:10:40
Case Aiken
This is not the first episode. Because we've had several points, but this is one of the many episodes where I've been like, what a fucking DBZ episode that we're talking about in the fight between the cyborg Superman and everyone. Because he is so fucking fast. He's doing like the hit you into the sky and then hit you from above kind of move like multiple times.

01:11:00
Blue
And the wind effects on all of those hits are so good.

01:11:05
Red
I can't believe it's taken this long for somebody to throw the Daily Planet globe at anyone.

01:11:09
Blue
And for Superman to get the Atlas pose to hold it.

01:11:13
Red
Yeah. And then in case we didn't get it, Hank is like, what's the matter, Superman? Is the weight of the world too much for you? And it's like, okay, yeah, I know. Writer's use subtext. And they're all cowards.

01:11:22
Blue
I love how much they put every thesis of the show in the words of Hank Henshaw. Because he's like, you get a family and I don't. I don't have a future. It's like, thank you for spelling that out, Hank.

01:11:31
Red
Yeah, very good. He's getting a good grade in reading comprehension for the season.

01:11:35
Case Aiken
Yeah. Good stuff. It takes me back to the first season where he was like, oh, me and the missus went for like a cruise or whatever.

01:11:42
Red
Oh, yeah.

01:11:43
Case Aiken
And like, we've never had an allusion to it since. And it's like, kind of weird because, like, we know that he and Lois dated at one point and like, it's just like kind of a weird dynamic now. I get it.

01:11:56
Jmike Folson
The.

01:11:56
Case Aiken
The accident post Brainiac. Like, he is not able to have children. Like, I get that as being like a part of the. The neuroses of the character. Like, but it is interesting to note that additional aspect of. Of it that they did set up previously. And then in the same season he like went on a date with Silver St.

01:12:17
Jmike Folson
Cloud.

01:12:17
Case Aiken
Or not went on a date, but went on a dating show.

01:12:19
Red
Sure.

01:12:20
Jmike Folson
For.

01:12:20
Case Aiken
For whatever that's worth. So, like, is that inconsistent writing? Is that just interesting details of the world? I'm not entirely sure. But you know, we have Hank Henshaw here, who I've already talked about. I enjoy, I enjoy that he is like this Adonis kind of character. I enjoy that he is supposed to be what every human should be striving for.

01:12:44
Red
Yeah.

01:12:45
Case Aiken
And then he is being taken by cybernetic means to being able to take on Superman. That is all cool. The fact that we have seen him at this point have his face fucked up and like, look like, the Cyborg Superman is really cool.

01:12:57
Red
Yeah.

01:12:58
Case Aiken
I enjoy those aspects of it. I think it makes sense to combine him with Metallo kind of.

01:13:04
Blue
Yes.

01:13:05
Red
What a reveal. Because we don't. There's no hint of the Kryptonite heart until he rips off the emblem and we're like, oh, everyone is in very big trouble now.

01:13:14
Blue
Yeah.

01:13:15
Case Aiken
Yeah. And part of that is because Metallos in this show have been established as like, government drones kind of thing. So, like, that's. That's all fine. Also, Kryptonite was always a big part of the Cyborg Superman, like, because he had it as the. The power source for his, like, Ingen City replacement for Coast City thing.

01:13:33
Red
It's a whole thing.

01:13:34
Blue
I do also like how the whip is like, Kryptonite falls from every robot that is everywhere now. We get all the time now.

01:13:40
Red
It's not that bad. God, I. Every single line that Hank drops when he's going nuclear in this episode is so good.

01:13:47
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:13:47
Red
I. I really like. Do you need these people to like you that badly? Cuz it's such a profound misunderstanding of why Superman saves people. And of course they're going to wish they loved me when they had the chance.

01:13:57
Blue
Yeah. He.

01:13:58
Red
So I think that Hank is a really interesting framing of, like, he's obviously very different than he was when he was a mortal person. But also all of this simmering xenophobia was present from his very first appearance on screen. He's kind of always been this guy.

01:14:15
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:14:16
Red
He's representative of what happens when you give this kind of power to somebody who's always wanted this kind of power. Oh, it doesn't good. I also like how it feels like it could have warranted from, like, maybe 10 more minutes of screen time. But I like how they just drop Kara being like, john, explain why you hate me. And it's like, what? But then she's like, I've noticed that you never look me in the eyes and you won't fight alongside me. And she's like, as a warrior, I must assume that you are disrespecting me. And John has to be like, no, no. I'm just traumatized. Ankara.

01:14:46
Blue
Yeah.

01:14:47
Red
And it's. It's a nice little moment when you realize how much a character's been thinking about something kind off screen and out of you. And Cara's clearly just been, like, very keenly observing this kid and is like, something is very wrong.

01:14:59
Case Aiken
And it's actually really well set up, like, rewatching the season in the last four, 48 hours. Like, there are several spots where Jon reacts to Kara, and then Kara, like, has, like, a look, and, like, you don't necessarily catch it on your first watch, but knowing where that's going, it's like, oh, yeah, no, I'm. I'm seeing how he has friction with her, and then she responds to it.

01:15:19
Red
Yeah, yeah. And I do like how they end up splitting his kryptonite armor so that they're each wearing half.

01:15:25
Blue
So sick.

01:15:25
Red
Stylish.

01:15:27
Case Aiken
Yeah. Very cool. And then I like that John is, like, a little less affected by kryptonite because he's half.

01:15:33
Red
Oh, my God. I, I mean, yeah.

01:15:35
Blue
Red, you lost your mind at this.

01:15:37
Red
Well, listen, we have to get through the actual, like, climax of the fight because that's the really dramatic moment. But I thought the implications of Hank's reaction to learning that John, that Jon is half human were so interesting and so atypical for the way that this story normally goes. Because it's like, okay, Hank is a raging xenophobe. He hates aliens. He hates that humans have chosen aliens over him, who was supposed to represent the best of humans. Humanity. Typically, with a character like this, if they learn that, like, oh, my God, the aliens are breeding with our women, like, it's gonna be kind of like a, ew. This half breed child is bad and gross. But instead he says he's human. And I love that because it's such an interesting nail in the coffin for the way that Hank conceives of the universe.

01:16:22
Red
Because it's not like aliens and humans are different. This is this kid who he sees as human upon learning that his mother is human, represents that the future of humanity does not look like Hank. It looks like Superboy.

01:16:35
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:16:35
Red
And it's like he no longer has the excuse that aliens and humans are different. Because this kid represents how the fact that he doesn't partition John out from humanity by being like, well, he's half Kryptonian. He doesn't count. He's corrupted or whatever.

01:16:49
Case Aiken
He's got the one drop, you know?

01:16:51
Red
Yeah, the. Yeah. Well, the fact that he's like, he's human, I thought was so fascinating because it didn't make him be like, oh, wow, humans have more potential. He's just like, this is worse. This is so much worse. I'm gonna blow up about it. I don't know. I, I, it surprised me. I thought that was extremely cool. But we jumped ahead a little bit. We have to. Superman has to get a good old fight off the Kryptonite moment. Because it's not a Superman story without one.

01:17:14
Case Aiken
Yeah. Like, so he. He fights through the Kryptonite, and this is like. He, like, pushes past it in a way that is like. Like it's. It's well handled in this series. It could be very trite, you know, like.

01:17:29
Red
Yeah. The fact that Kryptonian powers seem kind of biomechanical instead of natural is interesting and is brought up again later in the season in a. In a little way, in a way that we'll talk about in the episode. It's from. But, like, we keep getting hints that Clark's powers work in a strange way. And we haven't really seen Kara's powers upgrade in the same way that Clark's have visibly on screen. So for a while, I thought that Clark was some kind of, like, weird Jor El experiment, and that's why he's like that. But it doesn't seem like that's what they're going for. It seems like they're just doing this thing where, like, there is a biomechanical source of Kryptonian power that reacts to external circumstances.

01:18:06
Blue
And in this case, like, nine mitochondrias.

01:18:08
Red
Yeah. I guess they're all working together. They've unionized. It kind of looks like what it does is it transmutes the green Kryptonite into blue Kryptonite, which is canonically harmless to Kryptonians, but deadly to Bizarros. So it could be that it might have just been a visual, like, look, he's. He's fine. It's blue now.

01:18:24
Blue
Well, that's also the. The, like, when he goes Avatar State a bunch in, like, season one and two, it's like, oh, it glows. Kind of bluish cyan.

01:18:33
Red
Yeah. When they start giving everyone color coded auras, his is blue and cars is red. And it's kind of confusing, but the. The fact that the Kryptonite that's in him, like, transmutes to blue and then disappears, I was like, does that mean blue Kryptonite, or is it just a visual representation of the Kryptonite is fine now? And it's not entirely clear. It's a. It's a classic. I have to overextend myself to get out of this situation. And then it burns out my powers for a stretch. Fairly standard. I mean, we've seen Clark with his powers weakened and stuff before, but this is the first time we've seen them kind of broken. And I thought it was neat.

01:19:03
Case Aiken
Yeah. Like, they Showed like an energy core or something to him.

01:19:07
Red
Like talking about that biomechanical powerhouse of the cell.

01:19:10
Jmike Folson
Yeah,.

01:19:12
Case Aiken
It's just Parasite Eve or, or midi chlorians.

01:19:16
Jmike Folson
Oh, God.

01:19:16
Red
God, it could be.

01:19:19
Blue
No, no.

01:19:21
Case Aiken
But, but he like powers through it and it's really cool. I do enjoy that when he finally defeats the cyborg Superman, his costume is like so, his being Hank Henshaw's costume is like so up that it looks like the reappearance of the cyborg Superman that happened in like the 2000s when he joined the Yellow Lanterns where it's like all red and black as opposed to like the red and blue costume.

01:19:44
Red
Very cool.

01:19:45
Case Aiken
Which I, I, it has to be an on purpose kind of note there because it's way too close.

01:19:51
Red
Sure.

01:19:51
Jmike Folson
I mean, with these guys, I'm pretty sure it was on purpose.

01:19:54
Case Aiken
Yes. Yeah, man. The, the amount of just like how can we make cool references and make everything like a 180 from where you think it's going to go, like, is all over the place here.

01:20:06
Red
I think Hank's final moments were fascinatingly beautiful in a very sad way, you know, Cuz, like it, he's set up to blow himself up, having concluded like, okay, this is the future they've chosen. You know, they've all abandoned me. And, and it seems like that moment that vision of himself in space and like seeing these humans reaching out to the aliens, and then he seems to. I got the impression he shut down the explosion himself. I wasn't sure if that was how, cuz I figured maybe he just lost power before he could do it. But it seemed to me like his last moment was choosing not to. To blow up everybody. And I thought that was nifty.

01:20:41
Case Aiken
I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that we get this moment where we show the other perspective because we saw earlier in a news briefing of Hank Henshaw used to be an American hero, blah, blah. And we show him in space where we show his angle on that same shot and we see him sort of seeing the future and seeing what I think is a legion of superheroes.

01:21:03
Red
Really. I assumed this whole scene was metaphorical.

01:21:07
Case Aiken
I mean, there's like people flying. And I just kind of assumed that it was like it, they, they looked enough like the Legion of Superheroes like that you could, I guess, I.

01:21:17
Red
Mean, I, I strongly assumed that this scene was non diegetic, that he was kind of metaphorically seeing humans streaming up into space past him, unprotected by Spacesuits because they were choosing aliens over the future of humanity that he represented as an astronaut. It kind of didn't.

01:21:33
Case Aiken
I don't think these are mutually exclusive. Like, sure, yeah. Like, but. But yes, like, it looked like the future is superhuman was kind of the argument.

01:21:42
Red
Yes, I absolutely buy that. I could definitely see that being a Legion reference. I feel like that is kind of the main thing you reference. When you're like, in the distant future of the DC Universe, all this bullshit is happening. We got Madder Reader Lab. He's something to look forward to. Yay, dude. Did anyone else on this call watch the Legion of Superheroes cartoon?

01:22:02
Case Aiken
Yes. Yeah.

01:22:05
Red
It's not the point.

01:22:07
Jmike Folson
Red.

01:22:07
Blue
Lock in, lock in.

01:22:08
Red
I gotta lock back in. Listen, that Brainiac 5 is my fucking favorite.

01:22:12
Case Aiken
And no one else is a great Brainiac 5. Oh, my God. We'll talk off mike.

01:22:17
Jmike Folson
Lock it. Lock it.

01:22:19
Case Aiken
Back on mission.

01:22:20
Red
Yeah,.

01:22:23
Case Aiken
But I thought that was interesting at least, like, him looking at the future and sort of like trying to process things and seeing the superhuman potential that the world faced. It's kind of like the X Men kind of like mutants, like. Or humans response to mutants. Whereas, like, we shall not be replaced kind of thing. And yet embracing it by virtue of being cybernetic, which is its own kind of interesting thing that's going on there.

01:22:47
Red
It's almost. Almost like. I don't really know how to put this. Being cybernetically enhanced is kind of a case by case basis. But being born with superpowers is something that could potentially spread to all of humanity. So you sort of like Hank embodies this kind of weird great man theory thing. Whereas, like Superman and Superboy and the expense. The expanded, like, House of El is sort of like. No, superhumanity is a thing that you can just kind of grow into. It's not something. It's something that will become democratized with. And the way that Hank puts himself above everyone else in a very kind of Lex Luthor y way, I think indicates that. It's like my method of getting superpowers is unique to only me. But, you know, everyone in the future will potentially be one of these people. I don't know.

01:23:31
Red
There's a whole lot to be unpacked with Hank again. Five more minutes of him monologuing really clarify. The vibes would have been lovely, but.

01:23:39
Case Aiken
So Jon is a huge part of winning this fight against Tank and. And Superman, like, powers through the kryptonite. And we. We get great moments for. For everyone, you know, like Supergirl, like, you know, we get the whole why do you hate me? We see cool sequences of her raising Jon. We see her and Jon like teamed up in really cool ways. And like also her like arguing like tactics in. In the fight, which is. Is really fun in a way that Superman wouldn't think about it.

01:24:05
Red
And she's the only trained warrior. Yeah, right.

01:24:08
Case Aiken
So all of these are great moments. We. And we get Hank like being overwhelmed by the emotions of. By Superman taking the Kryptonite out and shattering it with his bare hands. Which is a cool sequence.

01:24:20
Red
Yeah, I like that. As soon as his powers switch off, he is immediately debilitated by kryptonite again. Because sometimes they do that thing where like if he uses gold Kryptonite or something to permanently remove his powers, usually he stops.

01:24:32
Case Aiken
Kryptonite was not. Did not affect non powered Kryptonians. Anti Kryptonite did, which was like its own. Like it's. There's so many types of Kryptonite.

01:24:41
Red
Yeah, man. Yeah. But I thought it was kind of funny because it's just the most like insult to injury. Like actually fuck you. Congratulations on shattering the Kryptonite. It's now raining poison.

01:24:53
Case Aiken
But we have a wonderful send off where John is like, no, the feature is going to better because you both are going to be in it.

01:25:00
Red
It's cute.

01:25:01
Case Aiken
And then we have the post. Not post credits, but like the epilogue at the end of the episode where we take tease just how things are going to go. And we haven't talked about how we got a heroic Lex Luthor prior to this point. A bald, heroic Lex Luthor. And now it is a villainous Lex Luthor who seems to be controlling Superman drones that look just like the. Not just like, but like this cartoon's version of the classic eradicator from the 90s.

01:25:30
Jmike Folson
This is one of those holy crap cases. You see this moment. So were texting back and forth with each other was like, yep, I just saw it. This looks amazing.

01:25:37
Red
Yeah, it's kind of. It's a little minor thing, but I kind of like how they don't bother showing how Jonathan gets out of this situation because it's like we can just kind of infer like, okay, he either busted out or Lara busted in and busted him out. They're both very powerful. I'm sure they could get out of this situation. It's not so important that we see it happening. It helps kind of tell the audience that these two are badasses and can watch each other's back because we don't need to see how they get out of this situation. It's just a minor writing thing that I thought was nice. And also probably because they did not have enough runtime for everything they wanted to do.

01:26:09
Blue
Yeah.

01:26:11
Case Aiken
So moving on. We are talking about Party Animals, the sixth episode in the season. So we've got like two kind of buffer episodes where it's just sort of like, hey, that was pretty intense. Right?

01:26:23
Red
Let's.

01:26:24
Case Aiken
Let's have the status quo of Superman having no powers for a man minute there. And as we kind of alluded to, it's really weird that everyone's just like, yeah, Clark, Ken's here. Like, yeah, all these times.

01:26:37
Red
The fact that Clark is just hanging out with Supergirl 24 7. Nobody made that connection. Come on.

01:26:45
Case Aiken
And I mean, I can kind of respect it from certain versions, like when we talked about my. Or not my adventures. Superman. Superman and Lois. Superman and Lois, which is a great show. Like, one thing they really lean into is the taking off the glasses, being like, oh my God, I can see your Superman now, kind of moments there. I can live with a show just being accepting of the fact that just no one makes the connection. It's a lot in this show.

01:27:12
Red
Yeah. I mean, I think the fact is it's fine that Supergirl has a trio of normal human friends that she just hangs out with while she is one of them most scrutinized celebrities in the world. This is the reason why Superman normally says, hey, Supergirl, you gotta get a secret identity because otherwise everyone's gonna put it together.

01:27:33
Jmike Folson
Yeah. Yeah.

01:27:34
Blue
Of the two lower key episodes, I actually found this one to be really fun because this was a kind of fun, goofy, low stakes situation to be in because it lets the characters hang handle a situation that is a job for Superman in a way that is very much like improvisational. Kara has to go fly over to the dam, and then all of the other normie humans have to pick up the pieces, which leads to Clark going to look for the kids and having to fight off a gunman.

01:28:08
Red
It is crazy that the Die Hard episode is the chillest of this batch of episodes.

01:28:13
Case Aiken
Yeah.

01:28:14
Red
As. As a fan, every time a show does a character has to do a Die Hard episode. I always love them making it Be powerless. Clark Kent is a very fun choice.

01:28:25
Blue
Yeah.

01:28:25
Case Aiken
And he gets shot and he does a really good job and then is really sad about it at the end of the episode and you're like, no, Clark, like you getting shot isn't like a sign of you being weak. Like you Took a bullet for these.

01:28:37
Red
Kids and those kids dead, dude. Like, I think I, I love that Clark is always measuring himself against the metric of more that he could be doing. He's a textbook perfectionist. We've seen this before. This isn't coming out of nowhere. Like when he developed super hearing and was like, I'm hearing every crime and I have to stop all of them. Like, because he can't willingly let something bad happen. So when it's like the way that he kind of sees this is clearly like, if there's more I could be doing, I have a moral obligation to be doing that. That more. And now he's facing it from the other side, which is, there's more I want to be doing that I could normally be doing, but I can't. And that makes me feel worse.

01:29:21
Red
I think that, like, in previously, they've always given Clark some, like, personal hang up that he has to work through. In the season and in the first season, it's the fact that he's terrified that if his friends find out that he's this weird alien from outer space, they'll abandon him. And in season two, it's the fact that he doesn't know what his relationship with Lois is, and he feels alone and misunderstood. And in this season, he's doing great. Everything's coming up Clark. And then his powers shut off and he's like, oh, cool, I found an exciting new dimension from which to hate myself. And it's like, clark, no.

01:29:50
Jmike Folson
Right? Yeah.

01:29:52
Blue
This is great human Clark, not Superman content. And I'm absolutely all for it. This episode is also such great Supergirl content. This is such a fun episode for Kara of the one, two punch of Lois being like, jimmy, you broke. Brought a date to a gala where Kara's getting an award. And then for Kara to be like, you brought a date. Vine. Boom. Sound effect. Zoom in to a gala where I'm getting an award. Immaculate Jimmy Dipshit.

01:30:22
Red
Flame bird strikes again. God. I also, I like how, again, Clark has a documented habit of jumping in the way of bullets when he doesn't know if he's bulletproof or not. Because he did that. And that one when they were. I think it was the Monsieur Mallet.

01:30:34
Case Aiken
In the Red Sun. Yeah, the Monsieur Malay.

01:30:36
Red
Lois is like, how'd you know you were bulletproof?

01:30:37
Case Aiken
Again?

01:30:38
Red
He's like, I just knew you weren't bulletproof. And because I thought he was getting in the way of that gun. Like, heroically, like, oh, no, these kids. And then he was like, oh, I'm not bulletproof right now. Classic Clark. Butterfingers. Canned.

01:30:51
Blue
The muscle memory's still there, though, which is so cool.

01:30:54
Red
Yeah, yeah. The audacity to also. This is the first time I think we've actually seen Clark get angry, which is interesting because I thought one of the most interesting things about his characterization in this show is that he basically never gets angry. He just gets disappointed. And I've realized how much of a contrast this was to, like, I like his characterization in the Justice League cartoon, but that Superman has anger problems all the time. Yeah. And with this contrast, it's like, wow, he didn't have to be doing all that. He could have actually had a gentle touch all the time and it would have been completely fine. If anything, Clark feels like the kind of person who shouldn't be able to get angry or like, shouldn't allow himself too.

01:31:29
Red
Like, for all the stuff he talks about, the world of cardboard speech, he kind of doesn't act like it for most of the series, whereas this Clark absolutely does. So the only time he can just get angry is when he is powerless and actually can't do damage. And he just kind of feels useless and unhelpful. And in the same way that Lois is allergic to being vulnerable, Clark cannot stand to be a burden. So even though he's been going through this for like a month, he can't just be honest with his friends and tell them what he's going through. Because Clark is good at repressing and not telling people his Superman related angst. So the fact that he's having not Superman related angst, easy for him to just put a lid on that and be like, nope, I'm fine. Don't worry about me, guys.

01:32:07
Red
I would love to not be a thing you guys have to worry about, because I hate doing that because I normally don't have to be. Everyone's emotional issues are so juicy in this show.

01:32:16
Case Aiken
Yeah, no, like, super apt. Like, the super. Like, he is struggling in this episode. And it's kind of nice that we get an episode just to be like, no, we're not going to spend all this time being like, can we solar charge him? Or can we do, like, whatever things? Because, like, at the end of the previous episode, you're like, well, what is the answer to this? And this is just being like, no, the status quo is just that he's going to be Clark Kent for a.

01:32:42
Red
Few episodes because they don't know how to fix him. And he's not saying, hey, we have to fix me.

01:32:48
Blue
Yeah, I do. Also, the random, like, French princess character who turns out to be this bioterrorist turning everyone into animals. What a. It's like. It's stupid, but in a way that is actually really fun that everyone is turned into animals, but they still talk. So, like, Lois dramatically falls out of the vent into the gas and just jumps back is like, I'm a cat now. Keep going. It's like, fuck it. Fine. Yeah.

01:33:09
Red
Real easy.

01:33:10
Case Aiken
And Jimmy as turtle boy.

01:33:13
Blue
Yeah, that's too deep a cut for me. I don't know that one.

01:33:16
Red
This is Dr. Poison.

01:33:17
Case Aiken
Like, it. Famously, one of the Jimmy Olsen transformations was he turned into a giant turtle.

01:33:22
Red
I've seen. It's horrifying. Very Gamera esque. But no, Marina Maru is a. She's do. She's Dr. Poison. She's a Wonder Woman villain. She's the Wonder Woman villain from the Wonder Woman movie. Oh, this is a completely different version of her.

01:33:35
Blue
Huh?

01:33:35
Red
The. The number of Wonder Woman bad guys they put in the show is not small. And I feel like she should sue. But, yeah, it was very interesting that they were doing Die Hard, but they were like, clark is already going through enough. This villain is going to be a little silly with it. Also, this is the episode where we see he has that vision of the fortress and, like, the ominous Kryptonian chanting. So it's. I like how it's like he doesn't have his powers, but it's so obvious that he's going to get them back from there. And it's kind of a nice little way to kind of hit to the audience. Like, don't worry. Obviously we're not getting rid of Superman in the show called My Adventures With Superman. Superman. His powers aren't done with him yet.

01:34:08
Red
But don't worry, he's gonna get to be sad first. It's like, okay, thanks. Nice to have the safety net.

01:34:13
Case Aiken
We also get the return of Silver St. Cloud, who we saw in season one in the Dating show with Hank Henshaw. And that's always fun because she's a Batman love interest, but she's a big philanthropist, and that's why she was a Batman love interest. And it's fun seeing here and.

01:34:31
Blue
Seeing.

01:34:33
Case Aiken
Her as the setup for why we get a Vicki Vale return.

01:34:37
Blue
Yes.

01:34:38
Case Aiken
You know, which is. Which is great. And. And continues my whole thesis that Vicki Vale is intentionally a foil to Lois Lane because she is supposed to be like what we interpret Lois Lane as being. And then this show is doing its own deviation from Lois Lane, which is really fun.

01:34:54
Red
Yeah. This version of Vicky is very close to canon. Lois Lane in most of the other versions of the, like, extremely successful reporter. She's got the classic character design. I think it's a nice little touch that they are, like, rivals.

01:35:05
Blue
Yeah.

01:35:06
Red
But also Bizarro Pizarro's. In this episode, our boy has returned, and he saves the day.

01:35:11
Case Aiken
Yes.

01:35:11
Red
My sweet boy in his cosplay, he.

01:35:15
Case Aiken
Just shows up and, like, I. I was worried that he was going to go too far when he shows up, but then he just, like, restrains everyone and, like. That's great.

01:35:22
Red
Yeah. And again, it really highlights the fact that the. They don't put so much urgency on. Like, Clark has to get his powers back because without Superman, the world is falling apart. This is kind of in the spirit of Reign of the Superman in a way that I wasn't sure the show was going to hit because, like, it's very much not the way that arc goes in the comics. Like, the fact that Steel is barely in this season is kind of a.

01:35:45
Case Aiken
Crime a little bit. Yeah.

01:35:48
Red
Yeah. But the fact, like, when Superman dies, guys, it's not like, oh, we're hurting for people with Superman's power set. You know, it's like, okay, well, we have this version of Supergirl. We have Cyborg Superman. We have Eradicator, although he thinks he's Clark. We have Superboy. We have Steel. And of these guys, only Steel has the attitude of Superman. Everyone else is it up. The threats that they face. It's not like, oh, my God, only Superman can save us. It's like, it would be really nice to have Superman back because he is kind of the moral backbone of the DC Universe. And without him, all these people are kind of tearing the city apart, and terrible things are happening, and it feels like Superman would help.

01:36:23
Red
And I like that they're doing that here with, like, Clark is here to witness how little the world needs the powers of Superman. And this is what leads him to realize that they still need Superman, because Superman is not his powers. Superman is Clark with his powers. And that is the. That's the factor that he can't see. See, because Superman doesn't like Clark Kent very much in this show. And this is definitely a version of Clark Kent who does not see himself as Superman. Really, like, different versions of him had different opinions on it. Sometimes Clark Kent is like the mask that Superman wears in the same way that Bruce Wayne is the mask that Batman wears. But this one is very much like, this is Clark Kent, and he puts on his customer Service voice to go be Superman.

01:37:05
Red
So when you realize how much he hates himself, it's like, oh, my God, this poor fucking guy. And it's kind of nice to see him have to work through that a little bit as he realizes the actual. The thing that Clark Kent brings to the table that isn't the ability to bench press a building.

01:37:19
Blue
I also wrote in my notes for this episode, Jimmy Fumblebird, Stop dating freaks. Challenge impossible.

01:37:25
Jmike Folson
Yeah, yeah.

01:37:26
Red
Man has a type because he does.

01:37:28
Jmike Folson
It again later on too, where you turn to a porcupine.

01:37:31
Red
Yeah. And you're like, how I love that. Everyone going to worms for their dating is clearly some kind of super villainous mess. Mad scientist. I don't know. I just think it's very cute.

01:37:42
Case Aiken
Absolutely. That said, I think this episode is a. A pretty basic one for us to, like, kind of pick up themes and then continue on and then move on to what I believe is Blue's least favorite episode of the season.

01:37:55
Blue
I can't stand this episode, dog. I swear to God, this episode sucks.

01:37:58
Red
I like how at the end of the last episode, it's like, oh, no, everyone just fell through a portal. What's going to happen? And then they show up in, like, beach episode Regalia, and it's like, This has fifth dimensional imp written all over it.

01:38:09
Jmike Folson
Right.

01:38:10
Red
I'll be honest, I'm really glad we got to see mix pic again. I listen. He's always the worst part of any Superman show he's in, but this version of him is so fun. It's kind of nice to see him in an episode where the stakes aren't, like, life or death and he's truly just around. Also the part where it's like we're divorcing. Just kidding. We're spicing up things in the bedroom with roleplay. I was like, wow, this really is an Adult Swim production. God. Listen, is it my least favorite episode of the season? Yes. Is it still a fun episode? Yeah.

01:38:41
Case Aiken
Yeah. That's sort of where I fall on this. Like my. When I watched it. And this goes back to my whole thesis that every episode is five minutes too short.

01:38:49
Red
Yes.

01:38:49
Case Aiken
Where, like, we ended the previous episode with them being teleported away. And then, like, we pick up this episode and we've got all the shenanigans, ends of. Of this. And then we're gonna pick up with the reign of the Superman stuff.

01:39:04
Red
Yes.

01:39:05
Case Aiken
Coming off here. And. And that. That giant tease. You know what?

01:39:08
Jmike Folson
It.

01:39:09
Case Aiken
It's been a minute. They have not overused Mixy. A spit like, in this. In the show. So, like, I'm kind of okay with that. It is adorable how they present his relationship with. I am not even gonna try to say glitzy. Yeah.

01:39:25
Red
And I love that it's Clark's experience with Mixie previously that lets him realize, like, wait a minute. All of this is definitely a trick, and we absolutely cannot follow the rules.

01:39:35
Blue
Yeah.

01:39:35
Case Aiken
Right. Well, and then the big thing, which is that, like, effectively the entire team that they're faced off against is, like, the five years in the future version of themselves, functionally.

01:39:45
Red
Yeah. They're clearly from a parallel timeline, but they may as well have just been the future characters. And I thought that was so interesting. Although, obviously this is a good version of Lex, whereas the future version of Lex is evil. So.

01:39:57
Jmike Folson
Well.

01:39:57
Case Aiken
But not from the Jon timeline. So, like, as far as we know, it could be that version.

01:40:02
Red
Well, no, but Lois is dead in that timeline.

01:40:05
Case Aiken
That's true. Like, but yeah, it's clearly.

01:40:08
Red
This is from, like, a sideways timeline. This isn't like, it looks like their future and it could be their future, but it's clearly not from the John or the Jonathan timeline thematic.

01:40:17
Blue
They're setting up. Like, oh, Lois, this is the version of me that you might turn into if Clark dies. And here's the thing. I get thematically what they're doing in this episode. Yes, Mxy's fun, but in a season that is already so overstuffed, why are we fucking around in Fifth Dimensional Beach? Episode is my problem. And also, I think this makes episode 9 hit a lot worse because it's like, oh, we go to the Fortress of Solitude, we go to do Superman Kryptonian barbarian mode. And in my mind, I'm like, this is the second time in three episodes we fucked off into beach land again to go do bullshit in virtual world while everyone else is actually dealing with real problems. And it's like, it's good. It's good material. Like, episode nine is great, but my first thought is this shit again.

01:41:06
Blue
It's like, God. So I don't care this episode. But how it fits in the season is like, I could. I could suggest a dozen things to do instead of this episode. Episode. To make these points and move on in a way that doesn't feel like it throws off the whole balance of the back half of this season.

01:41:25
Red
Yeah. I also. When this episode started, I was like, oh, no. Because the previous episode is so emotionally fraught, despite the silliness of the villain, I didn't really need to see another situation where Clark Hates himself through a bad situation where the bad guy is kind of stupid and ridiculous. Although I did really like the little moment. Basically, Clark is like, jimmy, give him the key. I can't protect us right now. And then he thinks he's gotten them both killed. And it's just such a gut drop of a moment. And then they're fine and they're okay. But it's. It's just a nice way to show that, like, yeah, listen, this is a stupid and ridiculous situation, but Clark is very much experiencing real pain right now, and it is affecting everything about him. And I don't know.

01:42:04
Red
I think the episode could have been far worse. In my notes, I have, like, this episode is much less annoying than I feared.

01:42:10
Blue
Sure.

01:42:10
Red
Yeah. But, yeah, well.

01:42:12
Case Aiken
And also, we get, like, the lowest stuff with, like, General Lane. And this sets up, like, the later half of the season where we have them constantly alluding to things that the future Lois would tell them because she's now General Lane in that timeline.

01:42:26
Red
It was kind of silly that after meeting this version of herself, Lois continues to think that when her kids are saying General Lane, they mean her dad. Because it's like, you met General Lane. You argued with General Lane.

01:42:38
Jmike Folson
I do think it's fun that.

01:42:40
Red
Yeah.

01:42:40
Jmike Folson
Without this episode, though, we wouldn't have had gotten the confirmation that the glasses work, because Lex still doesn't understand that Clark is Superman. So he, like, takes all the glasses. Like, I. I don't. I don't get it. What are you trying to say? And then Lois crystals the hair, and he's like, oh, my God, did everyone.

01:42:56
Red
Know this but me?

01:42:58
Jmike Folson
So the glasses work okay. They are there for a reason and a purpose.

01:43:02
Red
I loved his little moment of, like, I should have listened to Superman when he was alive. I'm not going to squander my last chance to listen to Superman now. It's like, aww, Good characters.

01:43:10
Case Aiken
It's a good moment there.

01:43:12
Red
Yeah.

01:43:12
Case Aiken
Like. And that's the thing that makes, like. Because I blew. I shared the same reaction that you had when I first watched this episode. But on reflection and then rewatch, I'm. I'm like, there's good themes. They're setting up in this whole episode.

01:43:29
Blue
And I will accept a lot of things if themes are good and this season is thematically very strong. I can't help but notice, like, problem. Solution. All of our. Problem is the season is too short and there is too much crammed into it. Solution. Why are we fucking around in Mxy's divorce proceedings?

01:43:47
Red
This could have been Half an episode, and I would have liked it way more.

01:43:50
Blue
Yeah, all of you are correct.

01:43:52
Red
And also, you're not wrong for feeling this way.

01:43:56
Case Aiken
It's not bad.

01:43:58
Blue
It's not bad. It's not bad.

01:44:00
Case Aiken
Yeah. And there's interesting things that they set up.

01:44:02
Blue
Like, they.

01:44:03
Case Aiken
They set up the hunger Dogs from, like, apocalypse.

01:44:05
Red
Oh, that's what those are.

01:44:07
Jmike Folson
Those were. Those dogs I got knew what they were.

01:44:08
Case Aiken
No, they. They reference the hunger dogs. They have the hell hippos. The Hell Hippos. I don't know what that's a reference to, but. But they. They allude to. Once Superman was dead, we couldn't fight off the hunger dogs. And that is specifically an apocalypse reference.

01:44:24
Jmike Folson
Like. Like. Okay, okay. Because that ties into it. I was gonna say at the last. The last episode. Anyway. Carry on.

01:44:31
Blue
Yeah, and that.

01:44:32
Case Aiken
And that ties into the bigger theme of, like, oh, there's a really scary cosmos out there. So, like, that's there. We get, like, more good Lex Luthor, which is also nice to see.

01:44:41
Red
Yeah.

01:44:41
Case Aiken
We don't really understand how, like, weird parallel Kara is connected to the rest. Jimmy Flamebird as, like, having a cool suit.

01:44:52
Red
A single episode of Kamen Rider came in to sneak in with the seasons of Dragon Ball Z in two seasons of Sailor Moon. I do kind of like how it's showing how everyone becomes their worst self without Clark. So it's like Lois is incredibly locked in on, like, you need to be ruthless with yourself and everyone else. You need to be practical. You need to make the tactical decision no matter how you're feeling. And Cara is like, oh, scion of the House of El. She's. She's essentially the perfect Kryptonian warrior. And everything we've seen of our car, Lara is like. She's a great warrior, but she wants to be a person. She wants to be, like, alive and have fun and explore things. And, like, the idea.

01:45:31
Case Aiken
Not just a weapon.

01:45:31
Red
Yes. The idea that she could be all this and still come back to Brainiac being right about what she's good for, like, clearly freaks her out. I like that she's the one who figures out that the. The maze is a trick because she's the only person right now in the right headspace to realize, like, wait, no. The future is ours to shape because Clark is so in his malaise of the, like, without Superman as my future, I don't know what I'm gonna be. And Lois is freaking out, and. I don't know. I thought it was really cool. Sometimes when you're watching a show like this, with a big ensemble cast. They still save all the big revelations for the main boy.

01:46:02
Red
So it's kind of nice that they are letting everyone kind of get a turn in doing the significant thing to advance the plot. And the idea that, like, Jimmy's worst self is just in denial about how bad things are, I thought was kind of interesting. A little bit of a softball compared to everybody else.

01:46:18
Blue
Yeah.

01:46:19
Case Aiken
But I think that describes this episode in general. Like, it's a good breather. We were dealing with the status quo that Clark is not Superman anymore. And we get to deal with like, yeah, future Lois is General Lane, and alternate timeline chara is just the same kind of chara that we saw in season two. And Jimmy has a cool space armor thing that he wears, and there's a good Lex, and that's all nice, which we've seen from future timelines. But then we move on to It's Raining Superman.

01:46:57
Red
I cannot fucking believe they called this episode that. This episode of all episodes. God. Hey, finally got that Slade divorce arc he's been destined for.

01:47:09
Blue
Everyone's getting divorced in the back half of the season.

01:47:11
Red
Listen, if there's one thing I know about Comic Deathstroke, it's that is one divorced man. Of course, he's beefing with a bunch of 19 year olds.

01:47:20
Case Aiken
So we haven't talked about Lara yet, because she is not. Well, I mean, we've talked a little bit, but not like in. In. In great detail because were introduced properly to John Kent. And then. Then we get Jonathan Lane. Uhhuh. And now we have Lara Lane, which I love for a whole bunch of reasons. It's an allusion to Superman's parents, but it's also the double Ls, which is really fun. She's got her own issues that are totally separate. And Clark goes to deal with Jon's, but Lois goes to deal with Lara's, which is really fun. Those are good details there. They're trying their best this whole season. That's the thing. The future is coming for them in a way that they're not ready and they're doing their goddamn best. And both are struggling when they deal with their potential future offspring, their problem children.

01:48:12
Red
I really like how in this specific case, it feels like this future is perfectly calibrated to hit them both where it hurts the most. Because with Lois, it's confirmation that without Clark, she's going to turn into her dad. And with Clark, Jonathan's. Every single issue of Jonathan is like, everyone needs me. Like, everyone needs you. And all they have is me, so I have to be enough. And if anyone says I'm not, I'm gonna scream. It's like, okay, Jonathan, calm down. Like I said, he's tremendously annoying, but in a very well written way that I really respect. But, like, the. The unique opportunity that time travel brings to let you yell at your own dad for dying inconveniently, when normally that's kind of an unsolvable problem. But I also like how they're like, we can't brief you on this mission. It's classified.

01:49:03
Red
Even though you're the one who gave it to us in the future is like, it does make sense that future Lois would be like, don't tell past me. She'll it up, only I have clarity of vision or whatever. And they immediately up the future by getting Eradicator out of his tank. Also, Bald Lex is now canon.

01:49:18
Jmike Folson
Bald.

01:49:18
Case Aiken
Yes.

01:49:19
Red
Finally.

01:49:19
Jmike Folson
Bald Lex.

01:49:20
Case Aiken
Yeah, finally we have Bald Lex.

01:49:21
Red
Bald. Post brain surgery. Lex is here to party. Oh, man. There was a little moment in this episode that confused me that never came back. I thought that when they were hunting Eradicator in the sewers, Eradicator must have been mimicking people's voices to lure them around, because there were all these little moments where it's like we'd hear somebody scream, and then the next time we'd see those characters, they were fine. So I was like, okay, so clearly Eradicators I thought was happening. Yeah, I was like, Eradicator's luring people into traps. Never a power he displays plays again. Not. Not ever something that comes up. They don't even do the thing where it's like, oh, no, somebody helped. Because they did that in episode one with the little, like, Lex Bot or whatever that was like, help me. And then it was like, help me.

01:50:02
Red
And then it attacked. And I thought that was super cool. And up. I got the vibe that Eradicator was doing the same bit, but it's never addressed again. So it could be a thing that it does just, you know, thing that went nowhere. That kind of confused me a little bit, right?

01:50:16
Case Aiken
That it becomes overconfident by the end and isn't doing the subterfuge kind of element.

01:50:20
Red
I also like that it keeps digivolving into having more hair.

01:50:24
Jmike Folson
Yes.

01:50:26
Red
Goes full raditz by the end of that fight.

01:50:28
Case Aiken
Well, so I have notes about the. The actual Eradicator because we saw the drones at the. At the end of the. Like that. That, like, preview portion of it. And so this guy For. For one thing, it has Thalog from Gargoyle's Vibes where it's like evil clone of Superman with the brain of Lex Luthor.

01:50:46
Red
Evil pallet swapped clone. Yeah, you're absolutely right, Blue. I understand you probably don't know what the fuck that means.

01:50:52
Blue
I googled it.

01:50:52
Red
It's fine.

01:50:53
Case Aiken
Okay, great.

01:50:53
Red
Yeah.

01:50:55
Blue
Oh, I. I get it.

01:50:56
Jmike Folson
It's.

01:50:57
Red
It's.

01:50:57
Blue
It's his name backwards. I. I can read.

01:51:00
Red
Yeah, well, it's not exactly. It would be. It's scrambled.

01:51:03
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:51:04
Case Aiken
Yeah. So there. There is that element there for the eradicator. Then there is the aspect of. Well, so did Lara trigger this whole situation? Now, are we dealing with like an even worse timeline version of the character because of Lara's actions?

01:51:19
Red
It kind of seems like it. Because again, it's too early for any of this to be happening. Jonathan and Lara are both supposed to exist when the world goes to shit, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense because Clark dies really early on. And also Lex's whole thing is like. With enough time, I will perfect the machinery that will allow me to control the brain of the Eradicator. And that clearly produces like Emperor Lex in the future. But in this case, it's unfinished and the Eradicator just runs off with a chunk of Lexus gray matter and uses it for evil. So, like, they definitely triggered things going worse immediately. And the fact that the Eradicator gets a hold of the time travel device and just starts like timeline skipping to power up.

01:51:57
Red
This is the part where I was like, oh, this guy is Cell. This is just Cell. And the.

01:52:04
Case Aiken
He keeps evolving. Yeah, yeah.

01:52:05
Red
And they even do the thing where in the final battle, they're punching him back through his previous forms, which is also a thing in the Cell battle because they punch him back to semi perfect form and he throws up Android 18.

01:52:16
Jmike Folson
Yep.

01:52:18
Case Aiken
Yeah, there's that. The fact that we get like the version of. We get the version of the eradicator that looks a lot like brain, like Bizarro and.

01:52:26
Red
Yes.

01:52:26
Case Aiken
Yeah, there was a social media clip that was leaked. Not leaked, shown off in advance of the episode where it's like Kara versus Bizarro. And so. And it showed the fight with the Eradicator to kind of with us that it was supposed to be like Cara versus Bizarro. I was like, what? What happens to create this situation? And then we find out. No, it's not that. And also, we do get a mind control Bizarro, but he fights it off.

01:52:55
Red
Yeah. Also I like, yeah, this dude, the Eradicator in this form kind of looks bit. A little like sloth from Fullmetal Alchemist. That he's just this absolutely hulking guy with the little like red dot eyes. I thought that was very fun. It's also so creepy how it just seems to be like evolving at random. It really feels like this odd, unfinished thing, which I thought was super interesting. Also, Kara's finest hour is in this.

01:53:17
Blue
Oh my God.

01:53:18
Case Aiken
Oh, my God.

01:53:19
Red
Yeah. Unbelievable.

01:53:20
Blue
What an incredible knockdown, drag out fight, culminating in Kara doing the absolute. What is it you called it? The piccolo save.

01:53:27
Red
Is that what it was?

01:53:28
Blue
Yeah.

01:53:28
Red
Where he takes the bullet. She takes the bullet for her protege. Also, I like the minute where Clark catches that big rock even though he's only a human. And it really hurts to save Lois. Again. The muscle memory is really strong.

01:53:40
Case Aiken
Right. But indicates that he is still somewhat superpowered because that is not a rock that a human can lift.

01:53:45
Red
Yeah. But also I think that anyone who's watched that much DBZ has a very unrealistic perception on how heavy rocks are and how breakable they typically are.

01:53:54
Case Aiken
More important is the car doing the piccolo block. We have to talk about that for a second because this show clearly fucking loves dbz. And like, I. I have had the same fucking person comment on multiple videos of mine recently being like, the series is just called Dragon Ball. And I'm like, no, I'm talking about DBZ specifically.

01:54:13
Red
Yes.

01:54:13
Case Aiken
Here. And like, when I say dbz, this is a DBZ ass moment.

01:54:17
Red
Yeah.

01:54:17
Case Aiken
Where Chara jumps in the way and like blocks the energy shot. And it's Piccolo blocking the shot for. For Gohan. Yes, 100%.

01:54:26
Red
I will say we do get a Dragon Ball reference in the final episode in that someone gets King Piccolo where you headbutt through somebody's torso to kill them. That's not a Dragon Ball Z thing. That's. That's from the day where the bad guy would just get real big for his final form. But yeah, this is. This is a DBZ ass fight. And I thought it was tremendously cool. It's just nice kind of showing Kara just absolutely taking it to the mat, you know, is just like fighting the hardest we've ever seen her fight against anyone that isn't Brainiac, which is so fucking cool.

01:54:59
Case Aiken
Yeah. The fight choreography in general is really good in the show. We have talked about this kind of in the abstract, but frankly, the fight with Eradicator in his form, one where he is growing new limbs and moving around and kind of doing some Angola Capoeira kind of moves.

01:55:19
Red
Yeah.

01:55:20
Case Aiken
Is really cool. Like, where he's, like, down to the ground moving. Not slow, but, like, moving, like, rhythmically to the battle and using his arms as much as his legs to hold up his weight is really cool.

01:55:37
Red
Yeah. You really get the impression that he's new to being alive but is learning dangerously quickly.

01:55:43
Case Aiken
Yeah, yeah.

01:55:44
Red
So I think that was really solid.

01:55:45
Blue
I need to rewatch the fight because you mentioned Capoeira. I'm like, oh, God. I think I can maybe picture that. But I'll need to pay more attention to the actual fight choreography.

01:55:54
Red
Some pretty crazy spins.

01:55:56
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:55:56
Blue
They definitely have some sense of, like, okay, Superman flies and punches, but he's not doing that much complex choreography. Supergirl has more going on. I think she's definitely more kicking than Clark ever does, but it's like, okay, now we have actually a lot of superpowered characters, the extended super family that fight a lot differently. And then this eradicator bullshit shows up. Okay, I got to go watch back and pay attention to the fight because this was, I think, in terms of, like, the choreography on display, this whole sequence with the three of them is by far my favorite fight. The super cyborg Superman fight was really good, but this one is just so brutal because we don't have Superman. We're allowed to just beat the shit out of these characters because it's. It's not guaranteed that the day is going to be saved.

01:56:47
Blue
We're in this fucked up, maybe, like, future ruined, but it's today thing going on here. And they're able to be like, yeah, we're. We might kill Chara. What of it? Who knows, man? What's going to happen?

01:56:58
Case Aiken
And frankly, we need to talk about, like, an aspect of Kara that is just part of the literature of Chara at this point, which is that. Or not just Kara, Supergirl as a whole, which is that, like, she sacrifices herself for Superman like the original Supergirl. The time Supergirl 1. Because Car isl is Supergirl 2. Supergirl 1 sacrificed herself for Superman in from Kryptonite. Supergirl, Supergirl 2. Car. Zel. Crisis on Infinite Earths. Died in a incredibly traumatic moment.

01:57:26
Red
Yeah. A very similar finest hour. Dying in a tremendously difficult battle with Superman. Too late to help. Which. So Carl was not guaranteed to survive this fight.

01:57:37
Case Aiken
Right, Exactly. Like, and. And other iterations of Supergirl have died in the. In the face of sin, saving their Superman. Because even though the concept of Kara being the older cousin, babysitter thing is like a 2000s era, like, modern Kind of take on the character. Like, this aspect of her being the caretaker for Superman goes back to the original inception of the character. And so it's always a little at risk that she might die in the name of making sure that Superman survives.

01:58:12
Red
Yeah, yeah. It's a very dangerous game, But, I mean, the show was very smart to not kill her. I do think it's really funny just because of how brutal this fight was. It seems like the writers room rule was that all clothing damage is reserved for Clark, and nobody else's outfit ever even gets scuffed.

01:58:26
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

01:58:26
Red
I was like, she just got annihilated and her cape is still intact. Okay.

01:58:31
Case Aiken
I don't know.

01:58:31
Red
It might be the Sam Raimi Spider man movies talking. I just kind of like it when our hero ends the movie with, like, one third of their outfit still intact. That's also a Dragon Ball thing.

01:58:41
Jmike Folson
Yeah, right.

01:58:42
Case Aiken
There's just this, like, stretch of webbing on the face and.

01:58:45
Red
Yeah, that's all. You got to be able to see half of Peter Parker's face and half of Spider Man's to really get the symbolism.

01:58:50
Case Aiken
Yeah. So moving on to episode nine, Vae Victus, which, of course means, like, woe to the conquered.

01:58:58
Red
Woe to the conquered after it's raining Superman. How dare you. Writer's room. How funny.

01:59:06
Case Aiken
So we get, like, more of the children misbehaving and, like, kind of being settled down by Lois and Clark to a certain degree. But more importantly, we get this weird adventure in, like, alternate timeline, Black Mercy kind of stuff, where Superman goes and deals with what is the most incredible threading of the needle of all the different versions of Brainiac.

01:59:32
Red
I adore this so possibly imagine.

01:59:34
Case Aiken
So we ended the previous episode where, like, Bizarro just, like, shows up and, like, casually show, like, takes Superman to the fortress of Solidude. Again. I wish there was, like, five more minutes where they're like, who are you?

01:59:46
Red
Yeah, let Bizarro show up, contribute to the fight, not be able to win, because as things stand, he just shows up and is like, oh, I'm too late. And it's like, no, they've done my boy dirty. He's as fast as Superman. He should have been able to get here.

01:59:58
Case Aiken
Right. And we get it later in the season. But, like, it is weird that he just, like, kind of shows up and they're like, oh, yeah, Bizarro. Hey, buddy. We remember.

02:00:07
Red
Nice outfit, dork.

02:00:11
Blue
So this on Batman, silly Kal El the Barbarian.

02:00:15
Jmike Folson
Yeah, yeah.

02:00:16
Red
Brainiac is always putting this man in outfits.

02:00:19
Case Aiken
Yeah.

02:00:20
Red
Brainiac ain't slick putting this man in outfits and situations.

02:00:25
Case Aiken
And we get. So we get a few things going on here. They get an amazing threading of the needle of. Is Brainiac Coluan or is he Kryptonian? Is he organic? Is he cybernetic? They somehow kind of do it all in a way that I'm really impressed with.

02:00:45
Red
I really like how this explains everything about season two Brainiac in a really tragic way. Because season two Brainiac is a very classic conquering robot war machine of the Kryptonian empire. And you really get the impression that Brainiac is like, I'm built for one thing, and it's war. So as soon as Jor El started making peace noises, I got rid of him. And it's like, whoa, buddy. Okay.

02:01:06
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:01:06
Red
And then this season just. It's so. Like you said, it's elegant because obviously, traditionally, Brainiac is like a. A cyborg alien, a Kaluan who is biomechanical. And it's like, you know, sometimes they get a little hand wave at, like, were they always biomechanical? Were they originally fully biological? And they became biomechanical or whatever? And then this one was like, brainiac is a Kryptonian robot. It's like, oh, man, we've completely lost all this collision flu and stuff. And he puts Clark in the. In, you know, in the Torment nexus and is like, prove to me that you understand what strength is by subjugating the weak. You know how were subjugated and the fact that Brainiac is like, Kryptonians were invaded by aliens.

02:01:46
Red
Also, little note about Kryptonians developing their powers, which seems unprecedented, but actually isn't, because in more modern versions of the comic, they're like, Kryptonians just have all these powers. Naturally, under the light of Ellison, they go absolutely bonkers. And then in the very earliest parts of the comic, they were like, kryptonians are like humans, but more advanced. They're. They're further along. They've had millions more years to figure stuff out. There's a part where the Kryptonians are like, oh, Earth. They're so unadvanced. They haven't even figured out how to do X ray vision yet. So, like, the implication that Kryptonian powers are the result of scientific advancements has precedent. It's not all just like, you're on a planet with higher gravity so you can jump good. So the idea that they were like, yeah, we.

02:02:22
Red
We subjugated the invaders, we studied their biology, and we synthesized Powers for ourselves out of it is like, oh, that's why Clark's powers feel so fucking weird. That's why it seems like there is an almost biomechanical aspect to them and why they keep upgrading at critical moments and why it feels like a machine that's burned out its battery. And then the reveal of, like, the alien invaders were a c. Refugee vessel is like, oh, fuck. And as soon as that comes to light, and it's like, oh, this is cycle of abuse shit. The idea of, like, if the nature. If the natural order is not the strong subjugating the weak, then what has our 10,000 years of enslavement been?

02:03:00
Case Aiken
It's so poignant.

02:03:02
Red
At the cost of making Krypton yet another evil vite empire, instead of an actual, like, shining citadel of scientific advancement or whatever, we have created an incredibly haunting story that makes me feel so goddamn bad for Brainiac and also future Hope for Brainiac 5. If there's still a little colon DNA in there.

02:03:21
Case Aiken
Oh, my God.

02:03:22
Red
That's why Legion was top of mind, because I was like, this version of Brainiac would absolutely produce the Brainiac 5, who is in love with Clark and is not subtle about it.

02:03:30
Blue
Remove your pants and get in the simulation, Kal El.

02:03:32
Red
I'm also not to.

02:03:34
Case Aiken
Not to let me stroke your black mercy.

02:03:36
Red
Not to point out the obvious, but at the end of episode eight, when Bizarro gets taken over and knocks out Clark is wearing fully a shirt and coat, and when he comes to, he's tied up and wearing neither of those things. I was like, brainiac, what are you doing?

02:03:49
Blue
It was getting a little stuffy in here, Kal El.

02:03:52
Red
You must be overheated in this fortress in the Arctic. Anyway, yeah, Brainiac ain't slick, but, man, I love that Clark once again wins the day through compassion. It's like we already got to see him defeat Brainiac in single combat, but now he gets to be like, hi, we're not doing this anymore. I'm sorry that happened to you.

02:04:09
Case Aiken
We established in season two that, like, the blue energy effect that goes on with Superman is a thing that Brainiac was not familiar with. And we've seen the red energy effect with Kara. We've seen. We see it here with. With Clark trying to manifest, like, his strength and so forth. And the blue energy effect is distinctly different. Like, that is his. His compassion. That is the power he draws from, like, the goodness of his heart as opposed to his rage.

02:04:35
Red
Okay, that's a. That's a really good angle. I assumed it was some kind of Jor El bullshit, like I said earlier. But it does seem like the blue power up only happens when he's trying to protect people. So.

02:04:44
Case Aiken
Right. So like we. And like it intrigued Brainiac in season two, where it's like the first time he does like freeze breath is like, oh, his blue energy, like did this thing. And so like that I think is really cool there. And like the fact that they keep forcing the red energy on Superman throughout this and like he is fighting it actively throughout this whole thing where he is trying to protect people and be friend to them.

02:05:10
Red
I kind of like the implication that even the sort of like proto like Bronze Age Kryptonians had some kind of rage induced super mode that they then spliced all their biomechanical power ups into. Because the way that we've seen Chara like, oh man, in her finest hour, when she gets the glowing red eyes in that one shot. Oh, it's so good. But yeah, it's also interesting because we do see in episode 10 that Lara and John both have a purple Super Bowl.

02:05:36
Case Aiken
Purple energy. Yeah.

02:05:37
Red
So I feel like we are risking straying away from world building that will ever be explained into the zone of. Yeah, Vegeta's beam is purple and Goku's beam is blue because that way they show up better on the same screen. You know, like I. I want dark.

02:05:53
Case Aiken
Beam at the end is yellow.

02:05:54
Red
Like. Yeah, well that makes sense because he powered up on yellow sun energy and. Yeah, yeah, I want to know what's up with the blue energy. I want to know what is happening. The fact that they've shown that it's unusual, that we've never seen Cara do it and that Brainiac thinks it's weird, tells me that something hinky is going on. And it could just be the power of compassion. But Jor El seemed like a pretty compassionate guy and we didn't necessarily see him doing anything with that. So I don't know. I'm still holding out hope that it might be some Jor El bullshit. You never know.

02:06:23
Case Aiken
Like I said, it in it reads as positive energy.

02:06:28
Red
Yes. Yeah. Admittedly, Cara gets the power up when she is actively trying to protect people. So I don't know at this point, but it's.

02:06:36
Blue
Yeah, it's a little inconsistent. Yes, that's more information to get a sense of what the scheme is.

02:06:42
Red
I keep waiting for them to start explaining it, and we're three seasons in and they haven't even gestured and explaining it like, come on, guys.

02:06:49
Case Aiken
But they have gestured at it being a mystery, and that's why we keep being, like, tantalized by it.

02:06:55
Red
Yeah, Yeah.

02:06:56
Blue
I also like season five.

02:06:58
Red
Yeah. There is also when we're cutting back to the people on the outside, when Cara is having her little heart to heart with Jonathan, she says something about Clark that I think is incredibly illuminating because, like, Jonathan, of course, has this massive, like, inferiority complex. But, like, everyone loves my dad, and everyone thinks my dad is perfect, and he's the one. All right.

02:07:13
Blue
Moon baseball. Yeah, yeah.

02:07:14
Case Aiken
Sorry.

02:07:14
Red
Yeah, yeah. You cannot outrun me. You will experience character development whether you want it or not. But I like that Kara says that everyone else sees Clark as perfect because even in failure, he does not give up on them. And I just thought that was such a beautiful way to put it. Of, like, listen, I know that Clark is flawed. I've seen him fail. The important thing is that he continues to try, and that makes him perfect. And I just thought that was so sweet. Like, a very loving perspective to have on him.

02:07:38
Case Aiken
Yeah. It makes the moon catch scene, like, really nice.

02:07:41
Red
Yeah. Yeah. Almost made me tolerate how much more we're putting with Jonathan. He's fine. Listen, he's. I know that he's annoying on purpose, but, my God, we got shit to do.

02:07:53
Blue
You with Jonathan is me with episode seven.

02:07:55
Red
Hey, yeah, listen, I like Mixpidlik a lot more than I like Jonathan. I've seen teen angst before, but Mixie is always surprising me. I was not expecting the Devil Force arc.

02:08:05
Case Aiken
Well, anyway, moving on to Operation Doomsday, because the season is in love with referencing the death and return of Superman stuff, I will say this for, because statistically speaking, most of the listeners of this episode have not listened to the majority of the Men of Steel catalog. We did do a coverage of the death and return of Superman back when it was the 20th anniversary of that, which was, like, three years ago now. So go check out those episodes, because we did a lot of talk about the breakdown of all of that, but. But this episode we're. We're talking about, hey, we're going to allude to doomsday here. We're not going to really have a Doomsday. We kind of have the Eradicator as, like, a brute form that. That he keeps on, like, summoning as, like, the closest thing to Doomsday.

02:08:51
Red
This is the second of many hats that the Eradicator will wear in terms of how many different Superman villains he. He is.

02:08:59
Blue
I got the vibe. I mean, my one other point of reference for Superman Media is the first two seasons of Superman and Lois that I watched and this guy's got Tal Rho all over him and I don't know if that's what he's always like. But the black Superman outfit, trench coat, dealio, little slender stick thin villain monologue in a little bastard is just a whole bunch of Superman and Lois. Season one villain Talro, whose thing is that he has the Eradicator, but it's like a bomb.

02:09:30
Case Aiken
It's so complicated for me to answer that question because.

02:09:33
Blue
Don't worry about it.

02:09:34
Case Aiken
They do stuff with Doomsday in season three and four. But also Talro is completely an invention of Superman and Lois and I like him. We had a great conversation on the show about should he just be a part of Superman canon? And I think, yes. So like, I, I, yeah, here's, so here's the thing.

02:09:56
Red
They are always cloning Superman and they are always making Superman fight Pallet swapped Crotonian versions of himself and they just kind of crammed all those guys into the Eradicator. And then the rest of them, they put in Bizarro. They were like, bizarro is also Connor. Who cares? And, and he will give his jacket to Jonathan because at least that way he'll be dripped out when he comes back from the past or to the past. And in this case, it's like the eradicator's actual backstory. I'm not sure I ever fully understood it just from reading Death of Superman because they kept referencing there's like, yes, when I previously appeared in Superman issue 578, I had this backstory, but now I am a different guy. And then he thinks he's Clark for a while and then he's not.

02:10:35
Red
And then he's like, no, I remember I am the Eradicator. I have now pallet swap myself. And now my sole mission is to bring Clark back from the dead accidentally. And then he kind of comes out the other side of good guy and like sacrifices himself to save the day from the Kryptonite that cyborg Superman was doing. So they couldn't do that verbatim.

02:10:50
Case Aiken
It, it's so complicated because it was the triangle era of Superman where they weren't allowed to have like full on Kryptonians. So everything had to be like, kind of like if it was Kryptonian adjacent. Yeah. And it gets weird. I, I think even though I have problems with the movie the Return of Superman where they have the like all of that Arc. The idea that it was. Here's a drone that is like reviving Superman and also a hologram that goes out there and is acting in Superman's stead, but doesn't have the morality scenario that Superman has is really good.

02:11:24
Red
Sure.

02:11:25
Case Aiken
So, and here they use the name and it's fine. It, you know, it. Like, they're like, I, I like this season a lot. Like, and they're playing a lot with our perceptions of the tropes and like, of the canon of superman dying and returning. And they introduce this like time traveling, ever evolving cell equivalent.

02:11:52
Red
Yeah, he crossed the bishonin line off screen and now he's showing up as this like little twink Zod coded dude, which I thought was kind of funny because he starts his monologue and then Jonathan freezes him.

02:12:04
Case Aiken
Yeah, he freezes like exactly. Like, I have that note. Yeah, yeah.

02:12:08
Red
Like, we finally get to Frieza Future Trunk Sword. And then he bisects him hot dog style and is like, huh, too easy. And then is immediately annihilated by an energy blast, which at that point I practically cheered. I was like, dude doesn't know what genre he's in. Yeah, I think that they were sort of doing everything with the eradicator. Here's the thing, I don't know what they did with Krypton, but I don't think we're going to get any sort of normal version of Zod because Zod is well tried ground at this point. Like my crack theory. I don't remember if I mentioned this. Last time when we see that flashback of Brainiac being like, I annihilated Krypton, we kind of see it get swallowed up by like Kirby Dots and then disappear.

02:12:47
Red
So I was like, I think that whole planet might be in the Phantom Zone instead of exploded and dead. And that's still my crack theory for where Krypton is. But then this season was a little bit more like, no, it got obliterated and Rao's been destroyed. So I don't know, maybe. But whatever the case, I don't think they're going to do like, oh my God, Zod was in the Phantom Zone and now he's out and he's a problem because he's like Superman but evil. It's like we're kind of swimming in guys like that at this point. You know, we don't really need another one at this juncture. So we kind of scratch that itch with like, well, eradicators are sort of weird. Kryptonian clones. And like Brainiac was. Sorry, not Brainiac.

02:13:18
Red
Bizarro was kind of like a beta version of that because he's closer to Clark but still way buffer. So you kind of see how that extrapolates into whatever the fuck the Eradicator has going on. And then it's like, okay, he's in perfect cell mode and then he's spawning off imperfect versions of himself as little Cyberman clones so that everybody has to fight these kind of bio broly ass looking dudes and that, oh, they suffer so badly from conservation Ninjutsu because they fire off one and he's the scariest thing they've ever fought and they have to king Piccolo him to kill him. And then the Eradicator is like, interesting, but have you considered. And then farts out like 20 of them. And it's like, okay, well congratulations. These guys are now jokes shout out.

02:13:54
Case Aiken
To Lex, not jokes. They are tough to fight. But sure, yes, I, I, I agree with you that they keep taking them down in a way that's like very mookish versus like the initial Eradicator is like the hardest thing ever.

02:14:06
Red
Yes. And they also do a little bit of that. Like Lex really puts in the effort to try and do the heroic thing. And they do kind of something interesting with the Eradicator being like, I am the embodiment of Lex Luthor's terror of the unknown. There is really nothing more to me than that. That's kind of my whole deal. And I thought that was so interesting as a concept. I really hope that we finally let Lex get his villainous day in the sun. Cuz he spent the last three seasons weirdly kind of walking that tightrope where you could conceivably see him going either way. And this season was the most of it, where it's like, is he going to be like, I'm a villain on purpose or is he going to continue to be like, no, I'm the good guy.

02:14:42
Red
Everything I'm doing makes sense. And this is the part where he's like, I think I've been the bad guy, but I will attempt to be the good guy. And he's immediately punished for it and now seems to be fully in the like, you don't understand the horrors I've seen. We have to protect ourselves mode. I will be intrigued to see where this goes, but it really feels like the Eradicator is kind of the harbinger of like evil Lex as sort of an embodiment of all the up stuff. In that guy's head.

02:15:04
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, like, it certainly was like the opening piece of, like, here's a future where Lex, like, is in control and he's so bad that we have to have like, Jonathan Kent or Jonathan Lane. Pardon me. Like, speculate on how to, like, escape and like, reset the timeline.

02:15:18
Red
Yeah.

02:15:19
Case Aiken
So we might see more. We might see a heroic arc. It's hard to really say because we did see good Lex in like, in the moment in the X Games.

02:15:27
Red
Yeah, Yeah, I think. Oh, sorry, go ahead.

02:15:30
Jmike Folson
I think he also had the part where he did try to, like, mind meld with the eradicator at a certain point and immediately backfired on him.

02:15:39
Red
Exactly. That's. That's what I think is so interesting is that, like, he tried to do the right thing and was immediately horribly punished for it and is now like, well, okay. And also he got arrested afterwards for, like, for trying to help. So I could easily see this version of Lex being. Being like, well, okay, in for a penny, you know, we'll have to see. But I think that the eradicator fight is very interesting. It is the most DBZ that it ever gets. And that's not always a good thing because we are sort of waiting for Superman to show up.

02:16:06
Red
And I do think there's a really interesting conversation in this season, like, meta, narratively speaking, and it's anchored on Jonathan, because Jonathan is like, everyone keeps waiting for Superman as if none of the rest of us are ever going to be good enough, you know, especially not me. And it's like in his timeline, Superman's dead, so everyone's essentially waiting forever. And they're like, man, if only Superman was here, we could solve this. It's like, I'm just as good. Why can't I solve it? But it's like, the show is called My Adventures with Superman. We're not getting out of this season without Superman coming back and single handedly saving the day. That is kind of the. The whole thing. And, like, everyone gets to drop in a punch and, you know, contribute to it.

02:16:39
Red
But it is Clark who, when he comes back, does ultimately save the day. And it's like, yeah, ultimately he is kind of the narrative's favorite princess and the luckiest girl in the world. So, like, there's not. There's no world where Jonathan actually single handedly defeats the eradicator. But the reason for that is kind of a little bit vague. Like, obviously Clark getting his powers back with like a RAO upgrade is interesting and the sort of ominous. Like, oh, what did it cost? Don't worry about it. We're not doing All Star Superman in season four. It's fine. But the sort of implication of like, why could only Superman save the day? You know, what's up with that? I don't know.

02:17:16
Red
I think there is a part of me where I'm like, they needed a little more time to really explain why they actually need Superman to solve this. Because it suffers a little bit from the common Shonen anime problem of nothing works until the right combination is entered. And then you annihilate the bad guy in one hit, you know, simply because the writer said it's not enough. You need to power up just a little more.

02:17:40
Case Aiken
You have to get that one punch.

02:17:41
Red
Yeah.

02:17:43
Jmike Folson
No one can beat this guy until Goku shows up. And then Goku still doesn't beat the bad guy.

02:17:47
Red
Yeah. But the power of friendship, that is the thing that DBZ does is that it lets the fights have a really long tail, where it's like, you have actually expended everything you had. But there will still be some. Like, even after Goku goes Super Saiyan for the first time, he still has to do some to beat Frieza.

02:18:02
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:18:03
Red
And in this specific case, it kind of feels like that's not really issue. And again, clearly they didn't have very much time to play around. So Clark comes back in his, you know, Super Sailor Moon form, does the. The little bit of like, hey, Eradicator, have you considered not doing that? And Eradicator's like, no. And he's like, okay, understandable. And then just immediately, like, punches him into a crater. And I was like, that's pretty fun. And I. I do like it. And I do get the sort of implication of like, whatever price Clark paid to get that power is going to bite us in the ass in season four. And if, okay, if he becomes an energy being or whatever, that's fine. I won't love it.

02:18:35
Red
But, you know, given how this is not a faithful recreation of the death of Superman in Reign of the Superman, I don't think they're going to do like, Beat for Beat All Star Superman either. But I could see this going very badly, or at least very angstily in different ways. But it does kind of feel like until the writer takes the handbrake off, nobody else is allowed to win. Even though everyone in this scene is operating with the same powers.

02:18:59
Jmike Folson
I was thinking, like, I think he might have tried traded out his. His Kryptonian engine for more of like, solar based powers.

02:19:05
Red
Oh, wow.

02:19:07
Jmike Folson
I was like, okay, because he does, like, it says, like, that typical, like, solar radiation, Golden Globe type thing to it. And I was like, okay, that'll be kind of interesting. So he's not relying on his Krypton stuff anymore. He's purely solar radiation now.

02:19:21
Red
Well, he does get a little bit of the blue glow before it turns to gold.

02:19:24
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:19:24
Red
I wonder how much of that was just them being like, hey, remember Super Saiyan? We can also do that. But I mean, I've seen a lot of people be like, hey, should we be worried? And they're like, no, probably. The cost was just that it hurt a bunch. And I'm like, no, that's normal for this show. The cost had to be something worse.

02:19:40
Jmike Folson
What did he trade?

02:19:42
Red
Yeah, what did he trade?

02:19:43
Case Aiken
Yeah, I mean, he says nothing that he wasn't worth willing to give up, which could be anything. And that is, like, kind of a wild part. And. And again, every episode of the season feels like it's five minutes too short.

02:19:58
Red
Yes. Yeah.

02:19:59
Jmike Folson
I mean, I will say that Clark was. He was. He was very desperate to get those powers back towards the end of the season. So whereas he would, like, normally be like, oh, this is too steep a price to pay. He's like, super. I will do anything to get these powers back because people need Superman.

02:20:16
Red
Yeah. I could see it being like, a shortening his lifespan. So, like, he lives long enough to have those two kids because he loves them to bits. Like, I did see a few people be like, he's going to die. And it's like, not before he has those kids because he's not willing to sacrifice anyone else and his future children count. But it. It wouldn't surprise me if it was something like that, But I guess we'll find out in season four.

02:20:36
Jmike Folson
Yeah, I was really.

02:20:40
Case Aiken
The woes, the pros, season four.

02:20:42
Jmike Folson
I really want to see or know what Lex saw out in space.

02:20:47
Red
I mean, it's got to be Darkseid, right?

02:20:48
Jmike Folson
Like, I was like, it's definitely apocalypse. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely apocalypse.

02:20:53
Case Aiken
You hit it.

02:20:54
Red
You.

02:20:54
Case Aiken
You heard it here first, kids. We're calling it as Darkseid.

02:20:58
Jmike Folson
We were right last time.

02:20:59
Red
Yeah, yeah. I mean, listen, we've built up for three whole seasons, and they haven't even hinted at apocalypse except for, like, weren't prepared when the hell the Hunger Dogs came. Which means the Hunger Dogs are due any year now, you know? Yeah, yeah, that. That would not surprise me. And I'm really interested to see what they do with dark side because Everything else has been so very, like, influenced by a clear love of like, all these incredibly influential anime. And it's like Darkseid, for all of his, like, impact is a very simple bad guy. It's like, okay, he's an extremely strong, extremely tough, evil God with eye lasers and a bad attitude, typically voiced by Michael Ironsides. He's scary. That's kind of his thing. And it's like, yeah, those guys are once a season in any given Shonen anime.

02:21:49
Red
Like, and once you beat him, he's replaced by a bigger buffer version who's a God of a more impressive planet. Like, like, you kind of have to do something special to avoid the sort of linear power scaling problem that a lot of the. The sources of this show suffer from. I wonder if they're almost gonna do like a. Oh, my God, I can't remember the name of the bad. It's like Pharaoh 9 or something like that. The bad guy from, like, season three of Sailor Moon where it's this like, cosmic horror Eldrich Abomination thing that we never even see in true manifestation. It's just like Sailor Saturn has gone into its pocket dimension to beat it up. I could see them doing some kind of like, Lovecraftian Eldritch horror situation for Apocalypse and.

02:22:28
Red
And Dark side as a concept, but I don't know if they're going to do that. I think it would be neat.

02:22:32
Jmike Folson
But it'd be kind of cool if, like with the other my adventures pictures of stories coming out soon because you're getting my adventures of Green Lantern with Jessica Cruz. So it'd be kind of cool if you, like, have a crossover thing for like a big event that happens.

02:22:48
Red
They team up to fight. The big scary space guy does kind of fit. Oh, man,.

02:22:55
Jmike Folson
We were right last time. True.

02:22:58
Red
Yeah. I definitely needed more bizarro in this season. He's. It's such a strong start. And then it's like just more of my boy, please. We got the little hint of him being kind of broly esque when he fights off the brainiac control and Clark hugs it out with him. And then he doesn't really do much in the super mode direction. He's just like, I'm fighting for my friends. It's like, great. Cool, man. More screen time, please.

02:23:22
Jmike Folson
Also gotta shout out Jimmy for his, his manto man talk with Lex. Yeah, you started this, you gotta finish this. You either the hero or the villain. And I was like, you go Jimmy again.

02:23:33
Red
Highlighting. Yeah, Jimmy is Lex's nemesis, not Clark.

02:23:37
Jmike Folson
And then like, car hits him with the great friendship at the end. And I was like, ha.

02:23:43
Red
Jimmy around and find out. Flame burn.

02:23:47
Jmike Folson
I was like, well deserved. Congratulations.

02:23:50
Red
Yeah.

02:23:51
Jmike Folson
Yourself, sir.

02:23:53
Red
Also Lex and Deathstroke having their little reconciliation, renewing their rouse. That was kind of cute. Oh, man. And I. I really liked how they. They wrapped up Jonathan's thing with just Clark being like, you don't have to be Superman anymore. I thought that was such a. Because in so many cases, like the passing of the torch, you know, you get to carry on my legacy is like such an honor. But with Jonathan, it was such a burden. It's like when he shows up and he's like, I'm Superman because there's no one else to be Superman, dad. And it's like, whoa. Okay. Yeah, so I thought that was cool. Anyway. Yeah, I'm just scrolling through all of my notes.

02:24:26
Jmike Folson
Had really great moments. I'm super happy that we've got a lot of Cara this season. She's best girl, hands down.

02:24:32
Red
Straight up. Yeah.

02:24:33
Jmike Folson
Jimmy is being Jimmy in the most Jimmy of ways.

02:24:37
Case Aiken
Yeah.

02:24:38
Red
I will be interested to see if they give Jimmy anything different to do in the next season. You know, like not fumble the ball. That would be great. You know, he has to like, work.

02:24:46
Jmike Folson
Up to it now. It wasn't like, now it's not a given. He actually has to earn it because she is the most eligible bachelorette the planet now.

02:24:53
Red
Yeah, there was a really little note which. When Jonathan and. And Lara show up and they're like, no, I had to figure out my powers all by myself because I only had mom to raise me. And it's like the happened to Cara in this timeline. And like. Well, the boring answer is she was killed by the Eradicator. The fun answer is recruited by the legion of superheroes in the 31st century.

02:25:13
Jmike Folson
Cuz like, they. They do hint at like temporal anomalies happening around during certain episodes. And you're like, oh, that could be like, you know, the Eradicator doing timey wimey BS stuff.

02:25:26
Red
I assumed that was what that was. I did like how when the Eradicator comes back, it's happening at the site of like zero day or whatever. And it's not entirely clear why until he pulls up the army of zombie robots and it's like, oh, that's why he picked this theater of battle specifically. And nobody questioned it. Okay. Cool.

02:25:43
Jmike Folson
Smart lady, that guy.

02:25:45
Red
Yeah, yeah. The crazy part where his final form is just fully Zod. That was a really interesting choice.

02:25:53
Jmike Folson
Yeah. Like, we do get the Jimmy Fumble of a lifetime. But we do get at the end, we get the Marry me, Clark Kent.

02:26:01
Case Aiken
And Owen's like, yeah, that was all great.

02:26:05
Red
Such a good little reveal. And I love that. Of course, with Clark, it's like, yeah, obviously I'm gonna marry you.

02:26:09
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:26:09
Red
A lot of us hesitated.

02:26:11
Case Aiken
We do get, like, the return of Eradicator.

02:26:14
Jmike Folson
We.

02:26:14
Case Aiken
We get all of that. That. That's all very strong. We get weird evolution of Eradicator where he turns into Zod.

02:26:21
Red
Yes. I thought that was so funny. It just.

02:26:24
Case Aiken
Very funny. But, like, then they pound him back into his previous forms.

02:26:27
Red
Yeah.

02:26:28
Case Aiken
So I. I'm back and forth on this one. Like, do. Do I appreciate him, like, evolving forward even more maybe? I. I don't. I don't know.

02:26:37
Red
I feel like instead of being Frieza and Cell, this guy is actually cooler than. Because he's got, like, the. In my powered up form, I have an even more final or powered up form. It's spikier and Buffer with a cool little mask.

02:26:51
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:26:54
Case Aiken
And a beard.

02:26:55
Red
Yeah. He's like. I cast puberty at the end.

02:27:00
Jmike Folson
He's like, Superman's like, what you. Do you want to fix it? And he's like, no, I'd rather die.

02:27:04
Red
I'd rather die. I thought that was cool. Also, Steve Blum, definitely having a fun time playing. Playing this dude.

02:27:10
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:27:12
Red
Yeah. I don't know. Eradicator, he was oddly, I think, one of the weaker parts of the season. The finale is very strong, but he is such a standard kind of bad guy. And again, that's not to its detriment. I think he doesn't have to be complicated or compelling, but, like, Cyborg Superman was such a high point, you know?

02:27:35
Jmike Folson
Like, he's.

02:27:35
Red
He's so interesting and so humanly motivated and so complex. And then the whole time the Eradicator is doing that boss fight, he's like, by the way, I've been in alternate timelines killing Superman this entire time for fun. And it's like, well, why do you give a shit about this timeline then? What's so special about this Superman? So I do think they were doing a lot of, like, gesturing at Cell. Perfect Cell. The whole like, oh, he got a hold of future Trunks's time device and now we're all in trouble. Or like, he comes from the timeline where you won and killed the androids, and now he had to come back here to get what he needed. I don't know. I. I guess that does confirm that the time device creates alternate timelines because he was moving through alternate timelines.

02:28:14
Red
So good boy John is out there somewhere.

02:28:16
Case Aiken
But I just want to know about my boy John.

02:28:18
Red
I want my boy John back.

02:28:19
Jmike Folson
I want to see like, if. Are they going to like, explain what happened to those other timelines where he. He eradicated. Haha. The family of L. I guess Superman's just there anymore. Yeah.

02:28:31
Red
RIP to those guys. I don't know, man.

02:28:33
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:28:35
Red
There is always the risk when you start bringing in time travel nonsense that you have to explain the time travel nonsense and the fact that the show was kind of like, we're not going to do that. Don't worry about it. It's probably fine. It's like, all right, you know, whatever works for you, dude.

02:28:46
Jmike Folson
Or you could have Mixig explain it next season.

02:28:50
Red
Mixie just pulls out a bunch of charts like, all right, dope. Nice.

02:28:54
Jmike Folson
Did.

02:28:54
Red
Yeah. God. I. It's really funny to me how in the Mixie episode he was just like, no, I wanted Superman, not this little dick weed. And I was like, okay, Clark doesn't need to hear that right now. How about we use our inside voice and be nice? But like, Mixie is such a dick that like, it actually kind of really works.

02:29:12
Jmike Folson
Also funny that Mixie doesn't know Clark is Superman.

02:29:15
Red
That's also tremendously hilarious. Oh my God. Return of the King with special guest star Aqua Marine.

02:29:22
Blue
Up and until this baby gives me a reason to take her back upstairs. She's crashing wherever we are at this point in the recording.

02:29:29
Red
We're past the end.

02:29:30
Case Aiken
We're in the Return, so we're there.

02:29:32
Blue
Okay. Anyway, yeah. Good episode so far, huh, guys? She sleeps for about like two to three hours at a time. And we've been going for about three hours.

02:29:43
Red
Yeah, that's right.

02:29:44
Case Aiken
Totally fair.

02:29:45
Blue
Yeah.

02:29:46
Case Aiken
So I enjoy this episode overall. It was interesting that the eradicator kept evolving in ways and then Superman punched him backwards in. In evolution.

02:29:56
Red
That's the perfect sell of it all. Yeah.

02:29:58
Jmike Folson
I'd rather die.

02:30:01
Red
I. I thought the I'm sorry no one taught you how to live was very interesting.

02:30:06
Case Aiken
Yeah.

02:30:07
Red
Yeah.

02:30:08
Case Aiken
And. And we get Bizarro coming back in a way that like, he. He wasn't a big part of a good chunk of the season. Yeah.

02:30:16
Jmike Folson
And.

02:30:16
Case Aiken
And it's just like, are you ready, cousin? And I love that he calls him cousin.

02:30:20
Red
I thought that was so cute. Yeah. I. I really needed more Bizarro in this season cuz he's so good. And we got that little bit of him like, broly powering up in the fortress to Break out of the Brainiac control. And I thought that was nice. I liked that it freaked out the Brainiac bots. Cuz it really highlighted like no, those are still colog in there. Those are still like living beings, even if they are like the cybernetic brain of the Kryptonian war machine now. And it makes it really easy for Clark to step in and be like, we're going to de escalate the situation with the power of hugs and forehead touches and it's going to be awesome. I was like, fuck yeah. But then I was like, I don't know. Sickle mode Bizarro could have been kind of fun to see.

02:30:56
Red
It's kind of a bummer that he didn't keep the black suit and just.

02:30:58
Blue
I'm sure we're going to get more opportunities for sicko mode Bizarro and whatever they have down the pipe for season.

02:31:04
Red
Four, I can always just rewatch the super broly movie to scratch the itch, honestly.

02:31:11
Case Aiken
So that's all nice. Yeah. So like we get this like big payoff of like Superman having like touched Rao. And like we don't know what he gave as part of this bargain. He says it was like, remember that's not Rao.

02:31:24
Jmike Folson
That's one of the sons of Rao.

02:31:26
Red
Yeah, the son of the son. Also they danced around calling him the last son of Krypton. They called him the last lord of Krypton. And he was like, no, that's not right. And it's like, when are they going to drop it? It's going to be devastating. I could just feel it. But yeah, the idea that there's a bunch of little mini rows running around, little mini suns I thought was, I.

02:31:42
Case Aiken
Love by the way that their red sun was converted into a yellow sun.

02:31:45
Red
Yeah. That they saved their red sun and turned it into Rao. I thought that was so interesting. Really highlighting the height of technological achievement of the Kryptonian empire. You know, at the cost of billions dead and all that.

02:31:57
Jmike Folson
Right.

02:31:57
Red
Very Rome coded of them, if I'm being honest. I like how Brainiac is like, hey, just so we're to going clear, this is functionally a God. Have fun. And we were talking about this a little bit while you were gone blue. But like if the bad guy of season four is Darkseid, you know, the thing that Lex saw in space and is so petrified of that he's going full like carve out a piece of my brain and put it in a guy. If they're highlighting that Ra is A kind of God. And we never get any sort of humanity from Ra. It only ever comes across in, like, the ominous Kryptonian chanting. Like, how are they going to do Darkseid, who's also a literal God of tyranny and conquest?

02:32:30
Red
Like, are we just going to make him a guy or are we going to do something more interesting than that? Who's to say? Yeah, everyone's sleepy. Except for me. I'm sorry.

02:32:40
Blue
Except for my child.

02:32:41
Red
Yeah, it's me and Aquamarine holding it.

02:32:43
Case Aiken
Down in the Awakening 5 this morning.

02:32:47
Red
I'm sorry, man.

02:32:48
Blue
I think I've gotten. Sorry I cut in.

02:32:52
Jmike Folson
You're fine.

02:32:54
Blue
Yeah, I think. I think I got most of what I wanted to get out earlier. And that this season is such a spectacular showing for Chara on all counts. And then to run through so cohesively the idea of, like, you know, in a word, future. And then specifically the idea of, like, okay, legacy children, how we shape not only ourselves in the future because everyone's seeing these mirror world wacko versions of their possible future selves. Good roads, but bad roads. And then also how that influences everyone else downstream of. That was really cohesive for the first season to be very solidly God who's the villain of the first season. Because second season's obviously, General Lane is mostly the season.

02:33:43
Red
It's General Lane and Parasite.

02:33:45
Blue
Parasite, yeah.

02:33:46
Red
Okay, Ivo.

02:33:47
Blue
So for, like, weirdo government stuff and Parasite and kind of like a more solid throughline of, like, there's kind of an end antagonist for each of the first two seasons. For season three to be like. I mean, they probably could have stretched out Cyborg Superman to an entire season, but for thesis of, like, the future and family, children, how our choices now affect us later, like, this season was so thematically cohesive in a way that will allow me to forgive how rushed a lot of it ended up being. And, like, I would have loved to spend more time on any of these plot beats except Mxy's divorce, but to be able to assemble all of that together and have it work as one unit even within the show for, like, one season is just. Oh, it's so elegant.

02:34:37
Blue
And I don't know if we got to the case. The very last line in your notes, the last dialogue in the season actually made me almost cry.

02:34:46
Case Aiken
Yeah, no, we haven't talked about that yet.

02:34:47
Red
Okay, so we have detail.

02:34:48
Case Aiken
Two great quotes at the very end of this episode, which is that Jimmy says to Cara, I'm a dealer, not a user, which is, like, just hilarious.

02:34:58
Red
Adult Swim, baby.

02:35:00
Case Aiken
And then we've got Lois saying, marry me, Clark Kent. And of course Clark is like, well, yes, obviously.

02:35:09
Red
What took you so long?

02:35:10
Case Aiken
It's the future finally coming, like full face to face with them.

02:35:13
Red
Yeah.

02:35:14
Blue
And with the little diorama. The little figurines too.

02:35:17
Case Aiken
Yeah.

02:35:18
Red
I also think that the interesting through line of the season is that all the bad guys are Lex's fault because he created Cyborg Superman and thought he could control it, and he created Eradicator and thought he could control it, and he's desperate for control. The fact that he's sort of on that weird, like, am I gonna be a bad guy? Am I gonna, like, figure out I'm evil and become a good guy? Like, who's to say they're pulling off this ambiguity a lot better than. Again, I've been watching a lot of Smallville and oh boy, after season six, they're like, lex is evil. Don't even worry about it. We have small, much more time to cover. But he's evil now. It's not even a question.

02:35:48
Red
I would not be surprised if we started to see more like Lex in an actively directly villainous role on purpose. But also, it wouldn't surprise me if he kind of takes a little bit of a back seat before he gets his groove back because he seems pretty shaken up by being single handedly responsible for all this shit. But the fact that like the through line of the season is, yeah, things look good now, but the future is bleak and when you try and fix it gets worse. Again, very silver, the hedgehog of them. But I, I will be interested to see what fresh bullshit presents itself to our heroes because right now the future looks pretty bright and we can look forward to Jonathan and Lara at some point. And hopefully they aren't.

02:36:27
Red
Hopefully the other versions of them are still out there somewhere and they're fine. Because the alternative is horrifying to contemplate, which is part of why I'm mad. The show doesn't address it.

02:36:36
Blue
I'm sure we'll get there.

02:36:37
Red
Yeah, yeah. Be very funny if future John and future Jonathan just keep coming back to check in. Like, yeah, it turns out that's not how time travel works and I had to fight them single handedly. Oh, it was crazy. Shame you missed it.

02:36:48
Case Aiken
Anyway, I would love that. Jesus Christ.

02:36:50
Red
Yeah, right? And like, they're doing like a, like, oops. John and Jonathan are both back at the same time and we have to like distract them so the timelines don't cross because it'll be distressing for both of them.

02:37:02
Blue
That's going to be such a episode 3 or 7 ass thing for them to do straight.

02:37:08
Red
Yeah, it's in the. It's in the slot of a hijinks episode moments before the next gut punch that ruins everyone's day. I mean, hey, Future Trunks was popular enough that they just kind of have him still hanging out with the dbz. Yeah, I think his timeline's fully been destroyed at this point. He's just hanging out like a Time.

02:37:27
Jmike Folson
Cop now or something like that.

02:37:28
Red
I forget if you believe the video game timelines. He's a Time Cop.

02:37:31
Jmike Folson
I have not been paying attention.

02:37:33
Case Aiken
Acab.

02:37:34
Red
Yeah, that's Future Trunks with Trench coat edition is a Time Cop, but Future Trunks with the Bulma cropped jacket look is just a. Just a regular chill guy.

02:37:43
Jmike Folson
I stopped watching.

02:37:49
Case Aiken
Well, so I feel like we have run through the season at this point. Red and Blue, thank you so much for joining us for this conversation. I am really glad to. To do this all. I'm. I'm glad that we've had the seasonal conversation with you guys about. About it all. Let's go. Final thoughts on the season. And we'll start with J. Mike, what was your final thoughts on the season?

02:38:14
Jmike Folson
Give me more. I need more dark science on the.

02:38:17
Red
Horizon in my veins.

02:38:19
Jmike Folson
Give me. You dumbass. But it was great. I loved it to death. It had its ups and its downs, but it was all around, like, a great season. I'm super happy, sailor.

02:38:28
Case Aiken
Superman and Blue, how about you?

02:38:30
Blue
This is a wild season to watch with, like, having a child between last season and this season where it's like, oh, like Clark and Lois are dealing with, like, conversations that me and my wife dealt with, like, in the last year and a half. It's like the future when. When will soon be now. And it's like, oh, soon as now. And I'm holding the future literally in my arm right now, hoping to God she goes back to sleep at some point. And it's like, damn, that hits like a truck.

02:39:01
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:39:01
Case Aiken
How about you, Red?

02:39:03
Red
This has been a very good week for me with superhero media designed to cater to me specifically because we also watched Brand New Day quite recently. It's not necessarily, by the numbers, the best Spider man movie ever, but it is the most my shit Spider man movie ever. Because all I need is take a guy with a moral compass. Compass and pretty eyes and make him suffer more than Jesus and I will have a fantastic time. Listen, my adventures with Superman is the superman show. That I would write if I had no restraint and no cringe left in my heart. And I feel so very seen and so fed. And yeah, I will take 17 more seasons, please, and thank you in my mouth now.

02:39:41
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:39:42
Red
So.

02:39:43
Case Aiken
And as for me, I'm kind of with y'. All, like, this has been like, such a fun romp. Like, the Kaluan con, like, conversation that they had with the Brainiac stuff is just so amazing to me. Like, that they threaded the needle so well. I. I think is. Is the thing that, like, gets me just, just so excited about the show. Like, they have combined all of my, like, fun media influences into one particular thing. And that's so goddamn cool that I just love it to death. And I. And I'm so glad that y' all have been here for this. This conversation.

02:40:20
Red
Yeah.

02:40:20
Case Aiken
I'm assuming that we're all pro when we say, should we recommend this to Superman fans?

02:40:26
Red
Yes. One million percent. Superman is compassionate again. Nature is healing.

02:40:31
Case Aiken
How about you? How about you, J Mike? Does this stack. How does this stack up with the Legends of Dead Earth Superman stuff that we've been looking at?

02:40:37
Jmike Folson
Oh, man, I love this so much, Case. It's so. It's so awesome. I can't recommend this enough. I'd like. At work, I'm like, do you guys watch my event of Superman? You guys, you guys check out the new episodes. They're like, oh, yeah, we.

02:40:49
Red
What, you think I should rewatch the entire show? Actually, I don't need to sleep. I'll see all three weeks.

02:40:57
Case Aiken
Spoken like a true non parent. Yeah.

02:40:59
Red
Yeah, man, oh, man, you can't take that shit away from me. I'm. I'm having a ball.

02:41:04
Jmike Folson
Yeah.

02:41:04
Red
Yeah. The future is bright.

02:41:07
Case Aiken
The future is very bright. And so are the people who have contributed to the show. So I'm going to take a moment to shout out the people who have been wonderful patrons of our show. And then we'll get into our individual plugs. So we need to shout out the people who have joined us on our Patreon at the executive producer level. They are awesome. So I'm going to give shout outs to them, which is Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir Lee, Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Master, Piero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Keith. Keith Letinen. They are wonderful people who have contributed to the show continuing on. And so I just want to give shout outs to them. It is a great old time at the CPOV Patreon. Funny story.

02:41:54
Case Aiken
So like Patreon is kind of a name and combined my personal Patreon with the Patreon for the actual like certain Point of View.

02:42:04
Red
Yeah.

02:42:05
Case Aiken
So recently I've noticed in the credits for a lot of things it's gone from Patreon by Case Aiken to Patreon by Certain Point of View with K. Sakin, J. Mike Fsen and Sam Alicea.

02:42:16
Red
Yeah.

02:42:16
Case Aiken
Which is, it's all good because we're all pulling our money on this one anyway. But, but at the same time it's been like, kind of like a funny, like weird note on, on that one that I've noted, including on the overly sarcastic production stuff. So Red and Blue, where can people find and follow you?

02:42:33
Red
Yes, we are on YouTube at overly sarcastic productions. We are currently in the midst of chill year for reasons that may or may not include the. That just spit up all over everything.

02:42:41
Blue
Don't worry about it.

02:42:42
Red
So we've been doing a bi weekly upload schedule, trading off, you know, tropes and detailed diatribes versus history and detailed diatribes and all that good stuff. We are also on Blue Sky. I think we still use Instagram and that's kind of it in the social media department.

02:42:54
Blue
So. Yep.

02:42:55
Red
Yeah.

02:42:56
Case Aiken
Awesome stuff. People should be absolutely checking out your stuff. Statistically speaking, they probably already are awesome. Likewise, they should be checking out J Mike. J Mike. Where can people find you and follow you?

02:43:08
Jmike Folson
I am mostly on Discord now. I am taking a very long social media vacation. So you can find me over on the Discord server where I am still lurking and hanging around and stuff, haunting.

02:43:19
Red
The Phantom of the Discord server.

02:43:20
Case Aiken
As for me, you can find me on the certain POV Discord server which you can find a link to on our website or in the show notes. It's a really cool Discord server with a lot of really fun people and we appreciate everyone who joins it. You can also find me on most social media platforms, Ace Aiken, with the exception of Instagram where I'm holding on forward your life to my AIM screen name from high school, which is Quetzalcoatl5q u e t Z A L C o a T L 5 and that is because I was pretentious in high school and also a mythology nerd and also a legion of superheroes nerd. So that is the origin of that name. Yeah. But you can find me there and all, all the places, especially the CPOV Discord at Case Aiken. So please check us out.

02:44:03
Case Aiken
We've got a ton of great shows. We've got this. We've got. We've got Another Pass, which is our movie analysis show. We've got the Word from Tomorrow, which is our deep dive on the wonderful series Trans Metropolitan. We've got Trade School, which is our cool series where I'm cataloging all the stories of why comic books matter to people. Check all of those things out. They are available at the certain point of view, YouTube or at the respective, like podcast feeds because RSS feeds make more sense. Yeah, the Internet is weird. We're just gonna deal with that and move on. But finally, red and Blue. Thank you again so much for being here. It is so great getting you back for our seasonal retrospective on my adventures with Superman. It's so cool that we've got this tradition going.

02:44:55
Case Aiken
I can't tell you how much I appreciate you both and I appreciate your work and I just, I love that we get to chat sometimes.

02:45:02
Blue
Great show. Great conversation.

02:45:03
Red
More seasons now.

02:45:05
Blue
Same time, same time. Next season,.

02:45:08
Red
Same back channel.

02:45:10
Case Aiken
Yes. And in the meantime, check out more episodes of Men of Steel. We. We've got a, a great backlog. We've been going for like eight years now. Like, I know. Jesus Christ. But it. In the meantime, stay super man.

02:45:34
Jmike Folson
Men of Steel is a certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and Case Agan. The show is edited by Sofia Ricciardi. Our logo is by Chris Bautista and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our theme is by Jen Moonan.

02:45:54
Case Aiken
Hey, Jay.

02:45:55
Red
Hey, Jim.

02:45:56
Case Aiken
You're a fan of the Legion of Superheroes, right? Yeah, I've been reading their adventures for decades. Me too. It was tough at first with all the characters, but now I think I'm an expert.

02:46:05
Blue
It's not too hard to get into the Legion. And to make it even easier, we.

02:46:09
Case Aiken
Have a podcast called Long Live the Legion.

02:46:11
Blue
We talk about different aspects of all.

02:46:13
Case Aiken
Its history to help you out. So whether you're a new reader in the Legion Academy or have your own flight ring or anywhere in between along live, the Legion podcast should be on your playlist. Cpov certainpov. Com.