Transmetropolitan Vol 6: Gouge Away - with Jesse Fresco
The Word From Tomorrow continues as Case and Keith are joined by Jesse Fresco to dive into Transmetropolitan Vol. 6: Gouge Away. Spider Jerusalem is closing in, the corruption is getting uglier, and the walls are beginning to crack around the people in power. We discuss political rage, media manipulation, and why this stretch of the series hits especially hard.
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Scored by Bret Eagleston
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⏱️ YouTube Chapters
00:00 – Intro
00:26 – Guest Introduction: Jesse Fresco
01:03 – Podcast Time Is Weird
01:23 – Jaguar Sharks, Film Rescue & Jesse’s Podcast History
02:18 – Jesse’s Sci-Fi Novels (Skyhawk & Drive Like Hell)
03:07 – Battlestar Galactica Influences & Freelancer Sci-Fi
04:56 – Jesse’s History with Transmetropolitan
06:28 – Warren Ellis, Preacher & Vertigo Comics
07:07 – Is Planetary Warren Ellis’ Best Work?
07:45 – Wrestling with the “Warren Ellis Problem”
08:50 – Spider Jerusalem as Power Fantasy
09:52 – The Problem with Nobody Questioning Spider
10:51 – “Everybody Clapped” Journalism
11:11 – Why Power Fantasies Matter
12:33 – January 6th, Protest Movements & Rewriting History
13:22 – Why Transmetropolitan Feels So Prescient
14:01 – Overall Thoughts on Volume 6
14:33 – Keith Loves the Filthy Assistants
14:55 – The Weakest Story in the Volume?
15:49 – “Nobody Loves Me” & the Weird Bottle Episode
16:27 – Warren Ellis’ Other Books at the Time
17:22 – Enter “Nobody Loves Me”
18:29 – Magical Truth-Telling Bastard Spidey
19:33 – Sanitizing Spider Jerusalem for TV
20:20 – “Expose the Truth and Everything Gets Fixed”
21:42 – Serenity, Journalism & Political Violence
22:48 – “The Truth Matters, But Action Matters Too”
24:14 – The Limits of Journalism
25:56 – “The Walk” Begins
27:29 – Why the Comedy Still Works
28:20 – The Grossest Fantasy Segment
29:37 – Yelena Slowly Becoming Spider
31:22 – Why This Feels Like a Breather Issue
33:03 – “The Walk” and Spider’s Fame
34:23 – The Romantic Stranger Sequence
35:34 – Police Militarization & Judge Dredd Reality
37:10 – Riot Shields with Tasers
38:24 – The Smiler’s America
39:11 – Homelessness, Cruelty & Systemic Failure
40:23 – Spider Can’t Even Publish the Story
41:13 – The Hole & Delisted Stories
42:48 – Modern Media Parallels & Suppressed Journalism
44:25 – “The Masses Are Stupid. Be Aggressive.”
45:18 – Spider Outsmarts Delisting
46:15 – Royce Actually Smiles
47:09 – “The Filthy Assistants”
47:52 – Does Transmetropolitan Pass the Bechdel Test?
49:11 – Warren Ellis, Celebrity & Ego
49:47 – Why Yelena Is the Best
50:50 – Smoking Like Spider
51:22 – The Horrifying Description of Spider’s Pants
53:04 – “We Have No Lives”
53:40 – Buying Guns & Preparing for Violence
54:37 – The Shooting Range of Channon’s Exes
55:42 – Morlocks, Eloi & Cloned Meat Futures
56:18 – Channon’s Story About Shooting a Rapist
57:27 – The Women Following Them
58:57 – Spider’s Presence Lingers Over Everything
59:57 – Animal Cruelty in Transmetropolitan
01:01:26 – Beginning the “Gouge Away” Arc
01:02:07 – The Smiler’s America Hits Too Close to Home
01:03:23 – Spider Finally Fights Back
01:04:06 – Arms Dealers, Prep Work & The Big Plan
01:05:47 – “We’re All Behind Spider”
01:06:08 – Spider vs. Kristen’s Bodyguards
01:07:38 – Kristen’s Political Corruption
01:08:41 – The Church, Right Love & Alan Schacht
01:11:22 – “I’m Nobody’s Cartoon”
01:12:18 – Fred Christ Returns
01:13:44 – The Bowel Disruptor, Explained
01:14:26 – Spider Targets Street Stink
01:15:13 – The Farsight Reservation & Telefactoring
01:17:25 – Spider Hunts the Dante Street Riot Leader
01:18:55 – Catharsis Through Violence
01:19:00 – The Hotel Avalon Investigation
01:20:48 – The Publishing Deadline Problem
01:22:07 – Why Writers Love Ticking Clocks
01:22:57 – Spider’s Web Goes Live
01:24:05 – Alan Schacht Shoots Himself
01:25:36 – Spider Prepares to Burn Everything Down
01:26:38 – The President Masturbating into the Flag
01:27:21 – Royce vs. The Board of Directors
01:28:05 – Kristen Gets Assassinated
01:29:24 – Spider Gets Fired
01:31:20 – The Apartment Eviction Trap
01:32:14 – Gonzo Journalism as Outlaws
01:32:29 – Final Thoughts on Volume 6
01:33:41 – Yelena’s Character Growth
01:34:53 – The Rhythm of Transmetropolitan’s Storytelling
01:36:39 – Should Transmetropolitan Get a Sequel?
01:39:30 – Revisiting the Series Years Later
01:42:51 – Jesse Fresco Plugs
01:44:28 – Dead Internet Theory
01:45:13 – The Good Version of Social Media
01:46:10 – Keith’s Plugs
01:46:49 – Discord Community & Case’s Plugs
01:48:09 – Patreon Shout-Outs
01:48:44 – Outro
Transcript
00:00
Keith
Foreign.
00:09
Case
Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Word From Tomorrow podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Keith Letinen.
00:16
Keith
Hello everybody.
00:17
Case
Keith, welcome back.
00:19
Keith
Yes, It's been a ride.
00:26
Case
It is certainly a ride indeed. And to continue on this ride that is the Trans Metropolitan series, we are joined by Jesse Fresco.
00:35
Jesse
Hello here again. We were just doing this two nights ago for Another Pass. That's true.
00:40
Case
Podcast time is weird. Podcast time is very weird. You and I were just doing Another pass and when that episode is going to drop in relation to this, I have no idea. I couldn't even begin to tell you.
00:51
Keith
I also just did an episode of Another Pass just a couple days ago.
00:54
Case
Yeah, actually that's true.
00:55
Keith
Very funny.
00:56
Jesse
They just kind of apparate into existence whenever I'm browsing through things to listen to at the gym. Like, oh, hey, look at that, it popped up.
01:03
Case
Yes, yes. So that is the weirdness of podcast time, but the, the wonderfulness of podcast time is that it is part of the podcast community, which is what you have been a part of. You have been a podcaster in the past. Your network is currently done.
01:23
Jesse
Closed down. Retired.
01:24
Case
Yeah, retired. But who are you? What, where would people know you from?
01:31
Jesse
Well, I was on the Jaguar Sharks podcast crew, which was previously just Montresor Media. And then there was a certain point where we split them apart and the podcast division became its own thing and the filmmaking thing became its own thing as well. And we kept Jaguar Sharks going until the, excuse me, the beginning of last year and we decided to wrap everything up. Everyone kind of went their separate ways. And so Seth, who was our pitchmaster general for Film Rescue, he moved to South Korea, so can't record with him. That's out of the question. He's on, he's an 11 hour time difference. Doesn't work. Hope is basically retired from recording for film and TV and stuff like that. She's moving to California pretty soon. She's getting ready to put her house on the market down in Florida. She's getting out of that hellscape.
02:18
Jesse
So it's, you know, everyone's just kind of going their separate ways and I've been pursuing other interests. I've recently written a novel and I submitted the manuscript for my second novel a couple days ago. So that's my main focus at this point. It's more satisfying to me. I wanted to be a filmmaker when I was younger and now I've realized, you know, what I don't play well with others. I prefer to just have everything be done myself. So I wrote my first novel, Skyhawk, and published it in November of last year and just made two more sales this afternoon, so. So it's selling pretty well for a self published novel. It's doing quite good.
02:53
Case
That's fantastic. What's the elevator pitch for it?
02:56
Jesse
Elevator pitch? Freelance starfighter pilot gets involved with a very shady corporation that turns out they're doing something very nefarious and he goes full Punisher or Jack Reacher and takes them down.
03:07
Keith
Nice. Are we talking near future sci fi? Are we talking high sci fi like a Star Trek?
03:14
Jesse
Have you seen Battlestar Galactica? Yeah. Okay, imagine if Battlestar was just about the Viper pilots.
03:20
Keith
Okay.
03:21
Jesse
Yeah, so it's basically just about that. And it's more like he's a freelancer. So it's more about getting a job, maintaining the jobs, like, oh, I made 80,000 this, this mission. But you have to pay for your taxes, you have to pay for your health insurance, your flight insurance, your permits, your landing fee, your rearm, your resupply, your repairs. So it's, you know, it's. There's a book series I really love by a writer named Derek Robinson who I think recently passed away. I went to his website to pick up one of his books and his website's gone. So I'm guessing he just passed away. He wrote a book called Piece of Cake which was set in the World War II Phony War, whereas right before full scale conflict broke out between Britain and Germany.
04:03
Jesse
And it's basically about just these pilots and the slice of life nature of warfare. Just people sitting around in, trying to enjoy life. And occasionally they go up in the sky and they shoot down other planes. That's, it's, you know. But deep down, Skyhawk is more of a love story than anything else. But it's a love story that's doomed to fail because, yeah, your job impedes your personal life and so he can't quite balance it. So slightly autobiographical, so. But yeah, it's the first in a series of seven. I'm working on book number two right now. And my second novel, Drive Like Hell. I just found a cover artist, she's working on it right now. And I should have that artwork done next week and then I should have the book printed by the beginning of next month.
04:47
Keith
Awesome. So I love me some sci fi.
04:51
Jesse
So if you like good action sci fi, that's probably a good one for you.
04:56
Case
Well, so it's fair to say that you know your way around the sci fi genre, Jesse. And so what is your relationship specifically with Trans Metropolitan?
05:07
Jesse
So I got back into comics out of college. I was looking for a job right out of college because my stepfather was a horrible asshole and said, you need to go get a job right away. Like, don't relax. Don't take vacation, don't experience life. Go get a job right away. Because he was a dick, you know, may he burn in hell. And so I went to Third Eye Comics back when he was still just a. Basically a closet store. It was barely anything, it was so small. And I was like, I'm looking for a job. You. I was hiring. And the guy that runs the place, Steve Anderson with his girlfriend Trish, they're like, well, it's just the two of us. We don't really need a third person right now. Now they're a big chain store. They have like five locations.
05:47
Jesse
There's one in Richmond, you know, there's one in Waldorf. Like, they're a big collection of stores now. But yeah, I was like, you know what, since I'm here, why don't I pick something up? And so I picked up From Hell, Alan Morrison. Hell. That was my first comic back. What a place to start. We were just talking about Alan Moore off air. So it's very appropriate. We're talking about that. And then I went into. I think it was Brian K. Vaughn's why the Last man, which was, you know, a pretty basic series. When you really break it down, it's pretty straightforward. Hasn't aged terribly well. And then I also certainly. Yeah, yeah. And then I also picked up a lot of Garth Ennis stuff, specifically Preacher and his run on Punisher.
06:28
Jesse
The Punisher, Max, specifically, which is one of my all time favorite series, heavily influenced my own book, Skyhawk. And then Steve recommended Trans Metropolitan because he says, well, if you like this Vertigo story, Preacher, there's a companion series called Transmit. You'll probably like this. I picked up the first volume, I read it in a single setting, and I went back to the store the same night and picked up the next two volumes. I was like, this is my jam. This is absolutely my jam. So, yeah, I. I got into it because of Steve over a third eye. And I really loved Warren Ellis's stuff for a long time. Would pick up his work consistently, even his mainstream stuff, which is nowhere near as good as his independent stuff. But I don't think this is his best work.
07:07
Jesse
I think Planetary is probably the best thing he's ever Written. I think that's probably the top of the heap for his best things. We've talked about that. Yeah, yeah, Planetary is really good. And also the main character of Transmet appears in a cameo in an issue of Planetary, which is kind of funny. So. But yeah, I haven't read any Warren Ellis stuff recently because of all the stuff that came out about him. And I'm like, okay, I'm gonna back away from this guy for a bit. So I don't think he's written anything in the last like five, 10 years. I don't know what he's doing now, so. But yeah, that's my relationship. I picked it up because of Steve over at Third Eye.
07:45
Case
Nice, nice. Yeah, yeah. We've certainly had our wrestling with the Warren else of it all.
07:54
Jesse
Yeah, it's not as bad as Neil Gaiman, but it's still not great.
07:59
Case
Yeah, yeah, like that.
08:01
Jesse
Yeah, there was a bit I saw, it was an interview I think I saw about 10 years ago. It's just him, it's like a webcam level interview. It's, it's him at a table with one other guy and he was talking about Transmet and he said that people, when they would quote him, they were actually quoting Spider Jerusalem there. And people were like, I, they think I'm Spider Jerusalem and I'm not. At worst, I. Spider jewelism is the worst parts of me. When I roll out of bed in the morning, we've come to realize that's not true. Yeah, this is kind of him. This is kind of him. Like the way he treated women, the gross sex stuff, it's like, yeah, I mean, maybe he doesn't beat the living out of people, but, you know, it's, this is kind of him.
08:46
Case
So, yeah, Spider Jerusalem is certainly a fantasy of Warnellis.
08:50
Jesse
Oh, it's a power fantasy version.
08:51
Keith
Oh, yeah.
08:52
Jesse
Like he gets completely jacked up on drugs every single day and then still lives to tell the tale. It's like, you know, I know a lot of this is basically based on Hunter S. Thompson. I mean, I've never read any Hunter S. Thompson work. I think I, I, I saw what was the one, what was the Vegas one. What was that called?
09:10
Case
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.
09:12
Jesse
I've seen that movie. I, I saw the, Was it the rum drink? I, I, the Rum diary. The Rum diary. The Rum Diary. And I was like, I just, he just comes off like a crazy person to me and I'm like, you know what? I don't need this, you know, it just. If you're completely blasted on drugs, you. You're probably not thinking straight. So therefore, I can't really take everything you say at face value. Everything you say should come under a level of scrutiny. And that's a one. That's one negative I would give the entire ser. Series of Metropolitan is that everybody he writes to. No one ever, like, questions it. Everything is gospel from him. No one ever says, hey, sit down and let's talk about this. Like, no one ever thinks, is this guy just crazy?
10:03
Jesse
No one ever says, is this guy just high off his ass and not thinking clearly? That's the one negative I'd give. This here. Is that no one ever puts anything he says under scrutiny because it's a power kind of.
10:13
Keith
We've kind of talked about that. Yeah. You know, it being told from his.
10:17
Jesse
Perspective because it's a power fantasy. And Warren. Warren wants to say, well, I'm right.
10:22
Keith
And you can't say. Everybody clapped.
10:25
Jesse
Yeah, everybody. Applause Here. Here's the sign in the background. Applause.
10:29
Keith
Yeah.
10:29
Case
Yeah. The argument that sort of, like, justifies Spider is that even, like, his assistants hate him. Like, everyone, like, seems to dislike him, but they're all like, I hate the fucker. But he's got. God damn it, he's right. Like, is how they sort of write around the scenario of just being like, oh, well, of course he's right. He's the protagonist.
10:51
Jesse
Yeah. I do love the ending of. I think it's the second issue in this volume. We're talking about volume six today. Gouge away, where it's the two. It's the. The two assistants going out and they're just having. It's like that. That brings up a point I want to talk about later on. And the very last panel of that issue is Spider picking up a dead bird and eating. And he goes, they love my ass.
11:09
Case
Yeah.
11:11
Jesse
He's not in anywhere else in the issue, just that one panel, because he's following them. I love that. Yeah. But, yeah, it is a power fantasy. And I do think that there is a. There is a value to power fantasies. I think that we need them. They can make us feel empowered. And in a time frame in America or even just in the world in general, where many people are feeling disenfranchised, disgruntled, de powered. It's good to have these fantasies. I mean, my own book, you know, Skyhawk, ends with a power fantasy. You know, I mean, the main villains based on my old boss and I, you know, blow him up with a gatling gun. Like it's, it's a power fantasy because we need these.
11:54
Jesse
I, I've never subscribed to this belief that all media should just be reflective of the world and just everyone should live in misery. The one thing I've noticed, and this is this way off topic, but I want to get this out of my system. I've noticed over the last like 10 to 15 years that a lot of left leaning media always has this air of self pity and defeatism to it. Like, we're gonna fight the good fight. We know we're right. We're gonna lose, but we're gonna fight the good fight. No, you're just going to lose and they're going to rewrite history and everyone's going to forget about you, which is what's happening right now. I mean, I was working in DC today we're recording this on January 6th and it's the five year anniversary of the January Six assault.
12:33
Jesse
I was working in DC today and there was protests all over DC. The plaque commemorating the police officers that died at the Capitol Building during that insurrection, that plaque is still not displayed and police were protecting January Sixers who were in jail and are now out now. It's like they literally just rewrote history. So all of that belief that you were the right on the right side, they just deleted it. So I do think there is a value to power.
13:02
Keith
Yeah, there is.
13:04
Jesse
And if anything else, it makes you feel good and it can be inspiring. We need those, we need these stories that make us feel inspired.
13:12
Keith
Yeah. One of the, one of the main keys to this series has been the prescience of it and how much we're like, oh, that hits awful close to home. We're definitely gonna be talking about that in a bit with some of this, so. Yeah.
13:22
Jesse
Oh, yeah. I think this is probably the most politically on the nose of the volumes right now.
13:29
Keith
It's up there, definitely.
13:31
Jesse
Yeah.
13:31
Case
It's. It's hard to say because the series feels so on the nose for so much of it. But, but yes. I mean, certainly there's plenty to talk about as we get into volume six. Gouge Away where Spider starts to fight.
13:49
Jesse
Back, as it were, literally and metaphorically. Yeah, yeah.
13:54
Case
But before we get into our breakdown of the actual volume, Keith, how are we feeling in this read along?
14:01
Keith
Good. This series, this volume is broke down into four stories. Three one shots and then a three parter. I really like the three parter. I think it's one of my favorite arcs so far in this. And I do really like you kind of mentioned, so I'll mention it now. There is a one issue story of the filthy assistants. And as Kace knows, I fucking love the filthy assistants. So I loved that issue so much.
14:33
Jesse
Shannon is so great. I love Shannon so much.
14:36
Keith
I had such a crush on her immediately. And now Yelena is. Is up there too. I might like Yelena more now, but I do think this might have. I don't want to say the worst story so far, but the story I've enjoyed the least, I'll say that. Which is.
14:55
Jesse
Is it the interdimensional TV show? Yeah.
14:57
Keith
Which we'll talk about shortly. But I think it was a low point for me as far as enjoyment goes. I'm not saying quality wise, but I was just kind of like with so much great drama building up, in case, you know, we've talked about it, we've been talking about. We're into the meat of the story now. It felt really weird to get that issue.
15:12
Case
Yeah.
15:12
Keith
Like right at the beginning of volume, like, oh, it's like, oh, we just lost a lot of momentum there.
15:17
Case
It's a very weird bottle episode.
15:19
Keith
Yeah. 100%. So. But overall I really enjoyed the volume.
15:22
Jesse
Because nothing really happens with that one story. Like it doesn't move the plot or characters forward at all.
15:28
Case
No, it's just a breather. Like it. It feels like a chance to have Derek Robertson do half the issue instead of the usual full issue and like get some. Like there's a. There's a little bit of recapping going on here. Like the Lifetime TV or movie story that they. That they put out there? Like. Or like Amphide news or whatever? Or Amphide fiction.
15:53
Jesse
American Feed fiction. Yeah. So was this around the time when he was working on this volume? Was this around the time that Warren Ellis is working on Constantine Hellblazer?
16:05
Keith
I don't know the time frame, actually.
16:07
Case
I think this is post that I think this is getting close to. Like this is certainly his. His Wildstorm era.
16:16
Jesse
I'm looking it up right now. Oh, he's working on Storm Watch.
16:18
Case
Yeah. Yeah. That's where his focus was going to Authority and Planetary. Yeah, that's where timeline wise.
16:27
Jesse
So that Breather issue is probably him to work on other stuff that he was working on.
16:31
Case
Yeah. Because I think like this is certainly by 98. Because we. There was a point that we checked in like where in the publishing timeline it was recently.
16:42
Keith
So Planetary and hellblazer were both 1999. So we're probably about to hit it, if we haven't already. So.
16:49
Jesse
So he was probably working on it and writing it at that time then. Maybe. Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah.
16:56
Keith
Okay. Crazy. He has all three of those books on the shelves at one time. That's crazy. So.
17:01
Jesse
Well, I mean, with the way you stagger release schedules and the way they. They dish them out, because it's various publisher he was working for. I think he was also working with Avatar at the time.
17:11
Keith
Yeah.
17:12
Jesse
Working on some independent stuff. So.
17:14
Keith
But it's just like these three. Like these are three huge titles. To have three. Three titles of that lasting legacy on the shelf at one time is kind of interesting.
17:22
Jesse
He was big at the time, man. He was huge. Yeah, yeah.
17:26
Case
So let's. Let's get into the. The first issue in this. In this volume, and as we kind of alluded, this one is very similar to the interdimensional cable episodes of Rick and Morty. The. The episode Nobody Loves Me or issue Nobody Loves Me, which is a bunch of different vignettes that are depicted as different. First TV and then hallucinations that Spider goes through. We open with Spider having a fairly funny rant that indicates that he's pretty. Pretty fucked up on drugs. He talks about his head bones, that he loves his head bones and that don't come near him or he'll shoot you, but give him cigarettes. And if you come close enough to give him cigarettes, he's still going to shoot you. He loves his headphones. It's amusing.
18:18
Case
And then we get into the first of the various vignettes, which is magical truth saying Bastard Spidey, which is a series that was alluded to previously.
18:29
Keith
Yeah.
18:30
Case
And I think is a lot of fun to see here. It's just every trope you could have about Spider just writ large.
18:40
Jesse
Yeah. How the public views him or how television would portray him or things like that. Like the sanitization of the reality. It's like there is value in this first issue. I do. I mean, as. As pointless as it is, there is value in looking at. Well, the adaptation of this person or this character or this scenario is going to get watered down because they need to make it digestible for the public. But yeah, it ultimately does hinder the reality of, like, the. The situation. The. The. The muscly tough guy storyline of the cliched exposing the truth to stop the police from causing a riot.
19:28
Case
Yeah.
19:29
Jesse
Reflective of the first.
19:30
Keith
That might be my favorite, actually.
19:32
Jesse
Yeah.
19:33
Case
So I was going to get into that. So. So I would argue that each of these stories is a good job of refreshing our memories of the core details of the series as a whole. I mean, we have to remember that this is volume six in a ten volume series. It's been a while since we've had the original story that launched the whole thing. So it is good that we get like, oh yeah, here's the public's perception of Spider Jerusalem and Spider's reaction to it so that we understand that he doesn't like it and that's taken too far and that it humanizes him by way of showing the caricature.
20:12
Jesse
He doesn't like being a celebrity, but that's, that comes with the territory of becoming famous. Like there's no way around that, you know?
20:20
Keith
Yeah, I like the, I like that in each of these we get that impression that we've had hints at before that not only is he famous, his circle is famous, his assistants are famous, the cat is famous. Like we saw like a stuffed animal of the cat or something in one of the last issues that was for sale. And so in each of these we do get like a little appearance by the assistants. And in this first story, the Yelena is very funny because it looks nothing like her. And I think that's hilarious to me. But yeah, I was like, is that supposed to be her? And I figured out, yeah, it is.
20:54
Jesse
But yeah. And the simplistic reality that Spider exposing the truth about the police, politicians, corporations, whatever it may be, it's like, oh, I'm going to expose the truth and they stop doing their horrible things immediately and the public recognizes it and everything changes. Like the current political system we're living through right now. How much has come out about the current administration within the span of one.
21:19
Case
Year and well, there's like propaganda in this version of the storytelling. Yeah. Where it's just like, oh, it's a rogue police sniper. He must. Must have snapped from the stress.
21:32
Jesse
And yeah, it's not the entire, it's not an entire battalion of cops beating a protesters like it is in the first volume. It's just one deranged cop.
21:42
Keith
It's a few bad apples.
21:43
Jesse
You bad apples. Yeah. Like, it reminds me of the ending of that movie Serenity, the sequel to Firefly. It's like we're going to expose the truth of what happened on this planet and the whole galaxy is going to know that the Parliament's really evil. And then suddenly the truth is exposed and they see it and then they stand down. It's like they would just shoot them. Like, the ending of that movie is. I'm happy with 90% of that movie. And then the ending is just. Yeah, yeah, exposing the truth. And that ties in. If I could plug away one more time. The ending of my book series is that main character realizes what's going on and like this horrible thing that's happening throughout the entire galactic community, and he just says, yeah, I can expose these people, but that's not going to change anything.
22:26
Jesse
They're just going to tie it up in courts and they're going to get away with it. They have to be stopped. And so he just says, fuck it. I have nothing to live for. I'm just going to sacrifice myself. And he goes, full Punisher. It's like it's. It's you at a certain point. I mean, I made notes while I was reading this again last night. The truth matters, but people need to take action for it to actually matter.
22:48
Keith
Yeah.
22:48
Jesse
Yeah. There's a really great book that I recommend to people that I've read called Violent Politics. It's a history of using violence in order to shift away fascist regimes throughout the course of human history, all the way from the American Revolution up until this came out in 2008. The second war in Iraq. Why violence is needed to at times, shift political systems in one direction or another. It's. It's not the preferred method of action, but it is a method of action if you are in desperate times. And so the situation you're getting into in this particular volume by that third. That, that third story, the three story arc, like it's desperate times. That is, that is when it gets. That's the low point of this series is that, you know, when Spider gets fired.
23:44
Jesse
So, and so you see the sanitization of violence in that first storyline where they're just portraying Spider as being this cutesy character or a porn star or an action hero, and that's not who he is at all. He's a, He's a deranged junkie. He's not. He's not that. Yeah, yeah. Cleaning it up for the public, which is very frustrating.
24:11
Keith
So,.
24:14
Case
Yeah, I mean, the. The Amphide news or Amphide fiction story one. I, the. I just sort of want to call attention to the fact that like, aside from the rogue sniper, it is just him saying, oh, I can combat this with the truth. And it's what we've been saying, that it's this like, Sanitization of the whole story there. That there. There is like, when we talked about the first volume and when we sort of discussed it in. In. In later episodes, the. The wrestling with the morality of actually making a difference by way of writing the story versus being an active participant in stopping the. The harm that was in front of you was. Was the thing that we. We discussed. Like, it's a thing that we tackled and this one solely puts it on the side of. No, it just clearly just.
25:18
Case
He should just write the story because that's. That's the victory scenario. You know, it doesn't. It doesn't allow for the shades of gray that exist in what actually happened there where a lot of people were getting the shit kicked out of them right in front of him. And he could have stepped in there and like, tried to intervene, but he would have only succeeded in maybe stopping one person from getting the shit kicked out of them as opposed to like, ultimately, like telling the story, like, prevented way more violence. Like did. Did way more. But, you know, it's the sort of like reverse trolley problem.
25:56
Jesse
Yeah. That kind of goes into the second storyline where it's him walking the street, walking the beat and just going from place to place and he sees the cops kick a homeless people out of their squatting area and.
26:08
Case
Yeah, and we'll get. We'll get to that. I just want to.
26:12
Jesse
Yeah, there is value in telling the truth. Yes. But there is also at times, there is a need to get directly involved.
26:19
Keith
There is.
26:20
Jesse
I mean, I was walking around the mall as I finished work today. I was walking around the mall today and just seeing the protest going on and, you know, cops are protecting January Sixers, they're protecting Proud Boys. It's like. Yep, it's. It's frustrating, you know, it's. It's very frustrating seeing them protecting treasonous and insurrectionists and the protesters that were there, peaceful protesters standing there, you know, but it doesn't. Unfortunately, it doesn't change much because, I mean, if they're. You're celebrating the day of insurrection.
26:53
Keith
What?
26:53
Jesse
Why? I don't get it. I just, you know, I don't get it.
27:00
Case
Yeah, yeah, it's hard to deal with so the. The real world encroaching in. Into our. Our fiction.
27:09
Jesse
I know. Especially on a day like today. You picked a hell of a day to do this case. I know. It's. It's hard to not think about it, you know. So, yeah, thankfully nobody got shot or anything today. Thank. Thank God. So, yeah.
27:26
Case
Yeah. Keith, you're about to say Something just.
27:29
Keith
Yeah, I wanted to kind of like, bring it back to the issue because, like, I do like, I like the stories. I think they're fun. Again, I. I don't think I. I don't think they're bad. I just didn't. I was just kind of like, it's a poorly timed issue is what my main concern is. But I do like the humor of it. I think it's pretty fun. I do like the hyper musclebound, where you talk about the, you know, I'll save the day with my idealism, you know, and then the porn one is funny because I, like, I. If I read this right, Royce was gender bent to a female, which is.
28:02
Case
Yes, I really enjoyed that.
28:03
Keith
Very funny to me.
28:05
Jesse
Are you going to write me that story? Do I have to suck it out of you?
28:08
Keith
I bet. I bet he really doesn't like that. And that makes me smile and just. Yeah, just like, I really like it. I think the last one, which I think was the Quitely art. Yeah, it was quitely.
28:20
Jesse
Yeah.
28:21
Keith
Was kind of disturbing to me compared to the others.
28:24
Jesse
Like, it was like, yeah.
28:27
Keith
Stomping on every woman. Whoever told them no was kind of not a thing I was really happy to see, I guess.
28:34
Jesse
Yeah. That one in. In context with the things that came out about Warren Ellis, it's like, okay, this one aged the worst. Yeah, this one aged the worst.
28:45
Case
Yeah, it makes sense as a power fantasy of Spider Jerusalem, but reading Spider Jerusalem as a power fantasy of Warren Ellis, the power fantasy of the power fantasy reads a little gross.
28:57
Keith
Yeah, definitely.
29:00
Jesse
Yeah. But at least after that you got the Eduardo Riso stuff.
29:04
Case
Yeah, that's why I wouldn't call it the last one, because I forgot about that.
29:08
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah. The Reso stuff is really good. Afterwards, I remember seeing his stuff for the first time reading 100 bullets, which is another series that I love.
29:14
Keith
So it's interesting because, like, even in the. Even in the Derek art of this one, Shannon looks drastically different. He draws her, like, much thinner, which I thought was very interesting. So it was just kind of weird, like that brief appearance with her and Yelena was like. I was like, oh, is that supposed to be Channing? Like, she doesn't seem like her normal self.
29:37
Case
So, yeah, I do like how quickly we get Yelena's version of the story right there where. Because it's true. Like, right at the very beginning, he was going to shoot my ass with that stupid fucking gun of his. So I left, bumped into you at the bar, and that's the Whole story.
29:56
Jesse
I will never get over the fact that he has a gun that can make people just shit their pants. Yeah, I will never get over that.
30:02
Keith
I love, I love as a character development and I think, again, as someone who hasn't read the whole story, I like that Yelena. And we talk about this in another issue later on, but that Yelena is a fuck up. And Yelena is slowly becoming Spider. True. Slim.
30:20
Case
Yes.
30:21
Keith
And I kind of love that, like, her being like, oh, just put it on, you know, this network. And she's like, wait, no, don't. Like, that's the kind of thing he would do. Like, oh, fuck, I fucked everything up. Like, And I was like, yeah, that's great. Like, Channing would never make that mistake. And I love that, like, aspect of her being like, the fuck up, you know, I think that makes her a lot more fun and really endears her to me.
30:42
Jesse
Yeah. The later issue. When did you start smoking? I don't know. Just got used to it.
30:45
Keith
Yeah.
30:46
Jesse
Slowly becoming more and more like him.
30:49
Case
But yeah, I mean, so again, this issue is sort of a bottle issue. It doesn't really have part of the larger narrative thrust. It is a resetting of the stakes for anyone who's just like, catching up with the series at this point. And it's a chance to like, show off some different art styles and have some fun jokes and to show some fun scenarios. But just to make sure you remember, here's what the status quo of like, of Trans Metropolitan is. Because at the end of this volume, that gets disrupted pretty severely.
31:22
Jesse
Yeah. I feel like it's a chance for him to revisit old ideas. Because then prior to this, I think is Volume 2 3, where it's the TV episode where Spider is just sitting there watching TV all day long and just like, just zoning out all day. I feel like this is kind of a reinterpretation of that where it's like he's no longer watching the television. He's in the television at this point. I feel like that's kind of what he's revisiting.
31:47
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
31:49
Case
But.
31:49
Jesse
But that makes more of a point about entertainment and consumerism and capitalism. This one's kind of like it's. It's a comment on the way we perceive our heroes or the way Spider is per. Perceiving himself as he has a nightmare in the end of the episode. In the issue. Yeah. And then the cat pisses on his head. Yep.
32:08
Case
That. I was gonna get to that at the very end of this whole Thing. Spider is passed out on the floor and the cat is pissing on his head.
32:16
Jesse
Maybe Warren knew that this was not a great issue and he's just like, yeah, let's just end it with the cat pissing on his head.
32:20
Case
I don't. I don't want to say it's not a great issue. I just think, like, I said that out of place.
32:25
Keith
That's the problem.
32:26
Case
It's out of place when you're reading it in the large chunks that we are today. If you see it as a jump on issue in the midst of this whole thing, which I would argue that every couple of arcs, we. We have these individual, like, kind of standalone episodes that are intended to be jumping on points for the book. This, the same issue happened in the last volume with the one with the senator that they were chasing down, where I'm like, oh, that's just like an archetypal transmit story. But it kind of sucks because it's part. Like it's in the middle of a larger narrative that it just sort of stuck. Stuck out of.
33:01
Keith
Yeah.
33:03
Case
The next issue is the Walk, and this is one where it's written. It's like Spider's notes. Like, it's kind of written like his column or like a book entry of his or something to that effect. It's certainly his narrative, but it apparently isn't. So like I said, I guess it's his notes that he's taking, like, as things go by.
33:27
Keith
I was gonna say I enjoyed this issue. I like the format of it. The steady two panels of art, two panels of text, the solid black background for the text, just keeping that, like, throughout. I really liked it. I also want to shout out that it was Jaime Hernandez that did the COVID of the next few. And I was like, whose art is that? Because it looked really familiar and I had to look it up. I'm like, yeah, it's Jaime.
33:53
Case
Yeah. Yes, thank you for shouting that out. But yeah, so we get Spider just kind of walking around the city in a bunch of scenarios, being identified by people sort of like calling out the fact that he is now a cartoon. That people. He's a Saturday morning cartoon. He's a TV movie, pop culture phenomenon character. And this is defanged him in the public. So people bump into him and they'd say, you're in the way, Spider boy.
34:23
Jesse
Yeah. There's one moment when he meets the. The attractive woman. He's like, oh, yeah, such a good moment. Just like Spider's like, oh, maybe I could let all this go just for this one moment and then just like, nope, Reality kicks back in. Fuck this city.
34:37
Case
Yeah, it's super romantic. It is super weird though. She's like sucking on the cat's tail. In the first panel, I noticed that.
34:44
Jesse
I was like, what?
34:45
Keith
She also has a passing resemblance to a certain departed political advisor friend of his.
34:51
Case
That is also true.
34:52
Keith
Yeah, yeah, that's what I thought.
34:53
Jesse
Immediately I was like, she does look like Vita.
34:55
Case
Yeah, but it's extremely romantic. Like, I think we've all had those moments of like walking down the street and like you catch the eye of someone and it's just like you imagine the scenario where it's just like, oh, yeah, in a different world. We would chat and like we would hit it off and you could build out this elaborate fantasy and then you just continue on walking.
35:15
Jesse
And in her case.
35:16
Keith
And you never see that person ever again.
35:18
Case
Right, Exactly. In her case, she continues walking with her three eyed cat that she was just sucking on the tail of.
35:25
Keith
I'm saying their cat. Their cats would. Their cats would get along. I'm just saying.
35:28
Jesse
Yeah, it's like ships passing in the night. Yeah. So, yeah, this is the issue that. My note for this one was very simple. Cops stop kicking homeless people out of their camps and squats.
35:41
Case
Yeah. So the.
35:42
Jesse
This is the ultimate fuck cops of.
35:44
Case
The police here is. This is one of the ones that I was like, oh, this is extremely pressing here where it's just like, oh, yeah, cops just have tanks and all that shit. Like that is super. The case of the modern world. Like, yeah. I don't even know where to start ranting about it because it's just the thing that I'm like, isn't this obvious that it's terrible?
36:01
Jesse
It was getting vague shades of Judge Dredd in there. Yeah.
36:05
Case
Oh, in the real world. Yes. Yes, it was.
36:07
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. Side note, I was actually just talking to John Wagner. I was just talking with him, our friends on Facebook. I was, I was talking about Judge recently. He said he's retiring next year. He's stepping away from dread. He's retiring. One more story and he's done.
36:21
Keith
Wow.
36:21
Jesse
Been writing that character for 50 years. He's like, yeah, I'm done. I have nothing left to talk about. The reality is, now that the Judges are real, living in that world, man. Cops operate with impunity now. It's no longer a satire. I have nothing to talk about.
36:35
Case
Well, and that's the thing with this scene here where it's just like, oh, yeah, cops are just freely allowed to have Tanks and so forth because of military surpluses and. And just the military industrial complex just generating ridiculous military gear that we then put in the hands of our police officers all over the country.
36:59
Jesse
Yeah, but when I saw that they would install tasers into riot shields, I was like, why?
37:10
Keith
I always, I always think back to. I remember it's something John Oliver featured on an early episode of a show when he's talking about police militarization. And they literally, like some police department with like a population of like 3,000 people had a full on, like SWAT tank. And to promote it, they put a video of it online to Dope song Die. Die.
37:36
Jesse
Yeah, I saw that.
37:37
Keith
It's like, what the fuck, man?
37:40
Jesse
Your job is to arrest criminals, not to be a bully and just go after anybody.
37:46
Keith
It's like little dick energy. Well, I think the other important part of this scene, though, like you're saying case, is that they have this. But also one of the big emphasis he makes is that. And they're so emboldened to just openly do this now. Yeah, yeah, like, again, very prescient. The man in charge of the country emboldens these people to be their worst out in the open.
38:12
Case
Yes, that. That is a great point right there. Because it's a thing that they talk about is the vibe of the world now. And it is certainly a thing that we are seeing in the real world.
38:24
Jesse
When you see when they. When they're kicking out all the people that are straight up homeless, they. They're just. They're completely homeless and they're just being booted out of their. This, this condemned building. Like, they're not hurting anybody. They just have nowhere to go. Like, they're not harming anyone because apparently some of them still contribute to society. When they kick them out, there's. Oh, where is it? There's a woman that gets kicked out and she has like two kids, like a baby, and she's wearing like a nurse's uniform or something like that. It's like, these people probably still have jobs. They just have nowhere to live because it's probably. They've been priced out of having a home. So it gets. It's like, where do you want them to go? You know? And it's. I've always.
39:11
Jesse
Whenever I see videos of cops doing that to camps and just like breaking down tents and just kicking people out, and they just say, just get the out of here. I'm like, the budget for the military right now is so large, you could end homeless in America. Homelessness in America within a month, you could end it.
39:31
Keith
Yeah.
39:32
Jesse
They choose not to. They actively choose not to. This police force that's in this storyline, they choose to be bullies and punks and treat these people like garbage. The lie that was told to you when you were a kid by your parents, if you just ignore the bullies, they'll go away. That was a fucking lie. They will hound you and they will come after you constantly. And that's what these cops do. Like these people are not hurting anyone and they're just harassed for no reason. For no reason. Because they don't have a. They don't have a. They're not contributing to the tax system because they don't have a place that they can pay for sleep.
40:10
Case
Yeah, yeah. So Spider just witnesses this and sort of has a face off with the cops as they observe that he's witnessing this. Yeah, he takes pictures, but he doesn't actually like intervene in any way.
40:23
Jesse
And he, I mean he would have been killed right away if he got Right.
40:26
Case
He thinks about that and he thinks about how like he can't even use this in a story right now because it's going to get a D list.
40:33
Keith
Right. So he's doing what he normally does, but also grappling with the fact that this is fucking pointless. Yeah.
40:41
Jesse
Who is who? What is this changing? What is this helping?
40:45
Keith
Yeah.
40:45
Case
You know, then we get a shout out to Hoppers, the Nighthawks in the panel on the next page, complete with the diner being called Hoppers, which is just, you know, just for your art aficionados right there. But this is where we get a reminder of the whole. A news organization that has been brought up a few times and like I've mentioned, is going to become increasingly important.
41:13
Jesse
Yeah.
41:15
Case
As we can tell in this volume because Spider is reminded that. That it exists and gets the lowdown on basically how to find it. And this is sort of like late 90s understanding of what hacking and like routing.
41:32
Jesse
Yeah, it's like that's not really how hacking works, but it's like it just hacking in movies and TV shows and anything like that. It's just, you have to just suspend disbelief because mostly it's just numbers on a screen. It's not terribly exciting. Yeah.
41:48
Case
So Spider, with his like super advanced computer is able to locate the current location of the computer's servers for the whole and is able to reach out to them and offer them his story that had been delisted. And by releasing it, on the whole, it causes like a lot of chaos and a bunch of news reporters like run up to Spider and at first he says column, I know no column. And then, and then we have him getting interviewed about the example or like the existence of delisting. And so it's this weird scenario that. Because like it's Spider's intent but it, it's. The scenario is that because Spider created this big story about a delisted story, they're able to do coverage of delisting in general.
42:40
Case
Even though previously it was indicated that delisting was going to be a thing that was like coverage of delisting was delistable material.
42:48
Jesse
Yeah. I mean, re examining material to see if it's actually worth. And displaying to the news. Like we literally just had something like this happen. The, the CBS report about that prison that was down in. Where was it Case. Where was that prison? It was in South America. Where the hell was it called? Was it the seacot prison?
43:09
Case
I don't know. This report that you're talking about.
43:11
Jesse
It was the, it was the CBS report that there was an episode that 60 Minutes was going to do on Seacot which was the containment camp, the Salvador. Salvadorian prison where all the people that are being deported were being sent to was a. Referred to as a terrorism confinement center. And it was going to be covered on CBS News. And now the. CBS is owned by Paramount. They pulled the episode.
43:38
Keith
I know what you're talking about.
43:39
Jesse
But Canada aired it and now it's available for free everywhere. And everyone's like, oh my God, why did they not show this? This is, we need to see this. They're realizing that CBS is folded. They're realizing that this episode that was essentially delisted was not being shown to the American public. But everybody else got to see it.
44:00
Case
You're right. I heard about this. I didn't know the specifics, but it's,.
44:05
Jesse
It's like Guantanamo Bay levels of depravity.
44:11
Keith
Yeah.
44:12
Jesse
And these people have done nothing wrong. Like so they don't have a green card to be here. Big deal. Mostly people did not do anything wrong. So by the way, being here as an illegal citizen is a misdemeanor, not a crime.
44:24
Keith
Yeah.
44:25
Jesse
So they shouldn't have the military or anybody involved in that in the first place. But you know, we're off to a bang with 2026 anyways. Yeah, that, that's an example of modern day delisting is just pulling that entire story. Like the two notes I had regarding this storyline were get the truth out there any way you can. It's like in Canada aired it, they said, yeah, we're not beholden to American policies. We're another country. We can do whatever we want. So. And also the other thing I noted was the masses are stupid. Be aggressive. Make them listen. You know, it. You should be getting in their faces if you're trying to tell them really important stuff. It is, it is important to be aggressive. You know, I've always kind of had this feeling that modern day journalism has been defanged in many ways.
45:18
Jesse
I think that a lot of it is a little too. Not clean and sanitized, but a little too nice. I think it would behoove them to be a little more pissed off because it would get people to listen, people to pay attention. I think that's modern day journalism is suffering because of it.
45:39
Case
Well, yeah. So Spider, after getting interviewed about the nature of delis, goes outside and we get a little bit of a face off against the police again. And he just sort of cockily points his fingers at them and says, evening, officers. Keep the street. Keeping the streets safe from the likes of me. Be seeing you. And you know, just sort of goes off to sort of stew in thinking about what he has done in this whole situation.
46:15
Keith
I like the quick panel of Royce just being content and happy with Spider again. I think their friendship is so fun. It's really great.
46:26
Jesse
I love that fucking asshole.
46:31
Case
Well, yeah, Spider is being complimentary about Royce at the moment where he says, my editor is a good man.
46:37
Jesse
Yeah, they can have their problems, but, you know, he's a good editor.
46:41
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
46:42
Case
And. And he's got his back. Yeah. And Royce was not happy about the dealer situation, and so he's happy that Spider has. Has circumvented it.
46:50
Keith
Exactly.
46:53
Case
So then we get into the. The last issue of the three that are the standalones before we get into the gouge way, like three part arc that wraps up this volume. And so this one is a Shannon and Yelena on. On their Own and their escapades issue.
47:09
Keith
Oh, yeah.
47:10
Jesse
I love this story now. I love this story.
47:13
Case
It did occur to me when I was reading that, so I was like trying to think about how much this book, like, passes the Bechtel test. And I was like, it's so weird because they even draw attention to it where Shannon and Yelena like, can't help but like talk about Spider a lot when they're on their own.
47:30
Jesse
Yeah. And then they say, we have no lives right now.
47:34
Case
They draw attention to it. And they do succeed. Like they have enough conversations about stuff in this issue just by itself that the series, like, passes the Bechtel test. But it is interesting to me where it's like how narrowly it just barely succeeds.
47:50
Jesse
Yeah, yeah.
47:52
Case
And like, that's like kind of like annoying detail about just like the writing of. Of a series. I mean, again, Spider Jerusalem is supposed to be this sort of like, lauded character, but the fact is that everyone talks about him when he's not in the room is. Is a choice.
48:13
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. It might be a reflection on Warren Ellis at the time. He was riding high. He was making a lot of money. He was. He was, you know, writing multiple stories. He was working for D.C. at the time. He was. He was rolling in dough. He was. He was on the up. You know, he's king of the world. It's like, you know, and there was talk, I think this was around the time when this was coming out. There was talk of doing the adaptation of Transmit. They were talking about doing a web series at one point. It never really materialized. I think this is around the time that was starting to pop up. Patrick Stewart was going to play Spider Jerusalem.
48:51
Keith
Yeah, we talked about that. There was another one where they wanted to have Tim Roth play him too. So.
48:56
Jesse
Yeah, I think at this point, just unfortunately, because of the way television is now, I don't think he could really do this. So. Yeah. Also, that means having to pay Warren Ellis money and the baggage that he carries, and he can't really do that.
49:10
Case
Right.
49:11
Keith
I think one of the highlights of this issue for me, besides the fact that it's about the two of them, which I love I mentioned before, you know, the whole. She says, lily, Christ, you're turning into him. She. She has. Yelena has so many moments of just like, unhinged action. That is so Spider.
49:30
Jesse
Like the close up panel of her face when she's having a meltdown.
49:36
Keith
Like, that's great, her finding the giant gun, but, like, look what I found, like, with a big smile on her face.
49:41
Jesse
Can I have it?
49:42
Keith
That Spider is hell. And I was like, wow. Yeah, she is really kind of turning into him.
49:47
Jesse
So. Yeah, the crux of this issue is. Is very simple. Even in times of fascism, find a way to have fun. You know, just. We're going through it right now. Like I said, this is. This is a very precious series. Even in times when fascism is rising up. Find a way to unwind any way you can. You know, you can't just be miserable all the time. So.
50:11
Keith
And of course, it's also about like, the looming threat to his extended circle. We have to. We. You know, we get in it. We get to address that.
50:20
Jesse
They're being followed. They're being. They're being attacked. Yeah.
50:24
Case
Yes.
50:25
Jesse
But I like it.
50:26
Keith
I like it being about the two of them. I like them. I like Spider. Barely a painter in this issue. I like that.
50:30
Jesse
Yeah.
50:32
Case
It opens with the two of them sneaking out. Spider is apparently asleep, and they take a taxi to a bar. We see them get drinks, and this is where we get the first moment of the. Yelena is turning into Spider bit because she has to stop for cigarettes.
50:50
Jesse
And.
50:50
Case
And Shannon's like, you know, you don't have to smoke that much when he's not around. She's like, no, I'm just used to it.
50:57
Jesse
Yeah. And then they talk about how he, like, never changes his pants, and so all the sweat that piles up in his crotch is, like, becoming a gelatinous shell. It's just, you know, I will give Warren Ellis credit where credit is due. He knows how to make you feel disgusted. I will give him credit where credit is due. He knows how to have a really good word play with his language. I'll give him that. Yeah.
51:22
Case
Well, we. We add more fuel to the shipping. Yelena and Spider fire, because apparently Yelena doesn't have to do this. This, again, brings up, like, how long was Channing goddamn Spider's assistant? Like, Shannon has, like, all these stories of, like. Oh, yeah, back when I was his assistant, I had to do, like, all these things. And, like, in. In book time, she was, like, his assistant for, like, six issues.
51:49
Jesse
Yeah.
51:51
Case
But she has, like, all these stories, and then, like, Yelena was, like, his assistant for, like, 12 issues, and it was, like, a week.
51:58
Jesse
Maybe Warren just forgot. I don't know. I don't know. Apparently, Warren. Warren Ellis has taken his fair share of drugs in the past, so I don't know, maybe he was a little up at the time and just.
52:12
Case
No, I mean, it's just, like, a funny detail in terms of, like, the. The compression of time there.
52:17
Jesse
Oh, yeah.
52:18
Case
But. But, yeah, again, it sets up that Yelena is, you know, like I said, like, she gets some special treatment from Spider in a way that Shannon did not. And, you know, for whatever reason is the. Is the culprit for it. Spider is treating her differently.
52:40
Jesse
Yeah.
52:41
Case
And then they. It digresses into them, like, coming up with this, like, disgusting scenario of describing Spider's clothing, like, being this, like, gelatinous mold that, like, sort of, like, fuses to his body, and that is you know, super disgusting. Like were just like alluding to it and at the end of it all, like, that's where they like kind of like look down and they're like, man, like we're our own and we can't help but just like talk to them. We have no lives.
53:04
Jesse
Yeah. I'm looking at the close up of Yelena's face again. It just looks like him with hair. It just looks like spider with hair. It's just.
53:12
Case
Yeah, yeah, I believe it. I, I believe it. I, I can believe that there are notes about that specifically through it all while they're going out shopping, we've been getting hints that people have been observing and like finally Shannon has gotten a hint that someone has been observing them. And so they detour to a gun store and we get some fun bits here. First of all, we get some funness with just Shannon being like such a good like haggler when it comes to talking guns.
53:40
Jesse
Yeah.
53:41
Case
Again, super worldly like this is smart. This is the scene that like made me like question like why she wasn't aware of Foglets. Like she just like seemed so like on top of things.
53:52
Jesse
If you're going to be doing this kind of stuff, my note for this one was be prepared to fight physically. There are always people out there in service of evil powers. It's like if you're going to be doing this kind of stuff, like trying to expose truth about fascism, totalitarianism, you better be prepared for people to show up and want to try to kill you. You should be prepared. Like it's the perfect example of walk softly but carry a big stick. They need to be armed. They have to be armed.
54:22
Case
Well, and in this case they get really good sticks that are small and snub nose on purpose. And then I find this hilarious. The target practice that they go to is all, dang, it's all channel's ex boyfriend.
54:37
Jesse
Yeah.
54:38
Keith
And these things. Okay, so what do you make of this? Are these, are these like brainless clones that they actually kill?
54:46
Case
They seem to react when they get shot.
54:48
Keith
Like there's a lot of blood.
54:49
Jesse
Yeah, it's. It, this is a, the whole series is just this perfect sci fi future where, yeah, it's a fucked up world, but basically anything you want, you can get it. You know what I realized? This whole series is this is the dark web manifested into reality. Like any fucked up thing you can think of. Yeah, it's here. It's like that's what it Is so maybe they are just clones of her ex boyfriend. That's all they are. They're aware of what's going on. They just can't do anything about it.
55:21
Keith
I mean, they clone people for meat to eat. So I mean. Yeah, just another step, you know what I mean?
55:26
Jesse
I mean that's probably where the human race is going to go. Like with the destruction of the. The ecosystem. Like we're running out of food to places to grow food and animals are dying off. We're probably going to start cloning meat to have protein.
55:40
Keith
Yeah, that's probably where we're going.
55:42
Case
And that then we turn into the Morlocks eating the. I forget the name of the other creatures in the time machine.
55:50
Jesse
Oh, God damn it. What are they called? More locks.
55:52
Keith
And we'll get stuck in that.
55:54
Jesse
I have to look it up or I'm gonna have a meltdown. Damn it.
55:57
Case
But, but that is the future. Like that is how we get to that future where it's just like, oh, were like cloning things and then to eat them and then all of a sudden it's just like were cloning humans to eat them. And then were like, oh, well, if they're free range, it's. It's more ethical than brainless.
56:15
Jesse
The Eloy. The Eloy.
56:17
Case
Okay.
56:18
Jesse
Yeah, the Eloy. Yeah. Which sounds like aloy from. From Horizon Zero Dawn.
56:25
Case
So Shannon tells the story about the first time she ever like shot someone. And she tells the story of blowing off the testicle of. Of a rapist who was going after her best friend. She was 12 at the time. And sort of chalks us up to like, this is what public schools are like. Yelena's like, I went to a private school and. And she does okay with her shots. Ultimately her first attempt is. Is apparently the elbow of one of these Zhang clones. But then the rest of her shots apparently decimate the body.
56:58
Jesse
Yeah.
57:00
Case
So they go out and immediately they get picked up or they get assaulted by the people who are following them. So a car pulls up and Channing grabs the woman who had been tailing them. And they don't find out anything from them. It's just, it's just basically like a counter threat that Shannon does where it's just being like, I wanna, I'm just pointing out to you that I'm not afraid of you. So like, you, Right?
57:27
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah. I mean they probably know who it is.
57:30
Keith
So I'm curious if we ever get like confirmation of this obviously, don't tell me, but like, if we know who this is, because it didn't feel like an overt threat from the President. You know what I mean? It felt like there was something else going on here, but that might just be like a Dodge or something like that.
57:49
Jesse
Well, I mean, if you keep up with, you know, current day situations, you know that the President is not at the top of the food chain. There's always somebody else above it. There's always a bigger fish.
57:59
Keith
Well, it's more just about how the, the lady reacted.
58:03
Jesse
Yeah.
58:03
Keith
Like it didn't seem like, you know, that kind of thing. So that's. I was kind of curious. I'm like, what if there's something more? There is not what I was thinking. So.
58:09
Jesse
Yeah, it is kind of funny that the. I'm looking at this now, I'm realizing that the woman that was trailing them with the black hair looks a lot like the main character from Global Frequency.
58:18
Case
The.
58:18
Jesse
Yeah, I can see that the head of the organization looks a lot like her. I know. It's just probably a coincidence because I think Robinson also did some work on that series as well. That was all one shot issues. So the one point was going to be coming back as a series and then it just never materialized. I think that was around the time that the stuff came out about Ellis and then they ended up putting the. I put that, putting that on ice.
58:39
Case
So. So Channon and Yelena deal with these people who've come after them. They, they don't actually like kill them. They just like shoot at the car and like disarm the one woman. And. And then they go to a bar and. And they take shots and throw them at a punching bag that's in there. And they go to a park to sort of discuss the situation and they discuss how they hate their lives, but at the same time they feel alive from this job. Like that Spider is right and that they're on the right path. And you know, it sort of affirms like their commitment to the journey that we're on. And being audience surrogates to a certain degree, they're supposed to like, make us feel like that. Oh yeah, no, Spider is certainly the voice of reason in this whole situation.
59:29
Case
And, and then they say like, yeah, like there's nothing quite like working with this horrible bastard. Because if there is, we would go and do that immediately. Oh yeah. And then, and then they walk off and behind them, Spider shows up. And that's where he says, like, they love my ass. And he picks up this like pigeon that died while they were like feeding it or something.
59:52
Jesse
Yeah.
59:53
Case
And then just like takes a bite out of it and it's just such a weird scene.
59:57
Jesse
Well, I mean in earlier storylines, the TV storyline, doesn't he get like a whole bucket of. Was it deer's eyeballs or something like that? Yeah, yeah, like caribou eyes. It's like this is a universe where it just that's just one thing that I will say I don't like in this series is the level of animal cruelty. I especially considering when we get into gouge away and the puppy gets hit.
01:00:18
Case
Yes.
01:00:20
Keith
We talked about he hates dogs.
01:00:22
Jesse
I, I, I don't like the level of animal cruelty that is in this series. That does bother me a lot. I mean maybe it's just post John Wick effect where anytime I see things like that it's like okay, off. So yeah, I just, it, there is a lot of animal cruelty and maybe that's just the fact that this world is just uncaring towards animals. It just does not care. Yeah. It is kind of funny seeing the park bench and it says time expired. You have to pay for your time to sit down.
01:00:49
Keith
Yeah.
01:00:50
Jesse
It reminds me of those benches that have the anti homelessness bar that's been put on them. So homeless people can't sleep on them. That's you know, that's.
01:01:00
Case
Well in this universe apparently it releases Ebola if you are sleeping on it.
01:01:04
Keith
So. Yeah, we saw that in a previous issue.
01:01:07
Jesse
Yeah.
01:01:09
Keith
I think the shocking thing about him just eating the pigeons because I mean there's weird animal stuff but it comes in cans. This is a guy eating the dead bird off the ground. That's what makes it different to me.
01:01:19
Jesse
Probably has some kind of disease in it, but he's so doped up on all kinds of drugs that they could probably kill off whenever he eats.
01:01:24
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
01:01:26
Case
Well, I mean like certainly this world that they exist in has a certain degree of panacea potions that inoculate everyone from the majority of disaster diseases. Like they point out that people lived 100 just by accident. And then we get into the proper gouge away arc, the three part arc that concludes this volume. A bit of news. We, we sort of catch different types of stories that are going on. Some of this indicating the pressure Spider has put on the presidential administration. We, we catch in with what was going on with the beast and then Spider gets a visit from an arms dealer.
01:02:07
Keith
There's probably the most chilling thing I've read in this series so far is the panel of the Oval Office on message ring saying we'd really like to encourage the American community out of sexual surgery practices. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that didn't hit close to home. That hit home. Yeah, that hit a home. Like, I was like, jesus Christ. Like that. That one. I literally chilled for a minute when I read that. I was surprised. Jesus.
01:02:37
Jesse
Like, it's been around for a long time, this stuff. Yeah. This is probably the most on the nose of this entire series. This. This 3 arc, the 3.3 issue arc where it's just like, yep, this is just today.
01:02:52
Keith
I really like this arc because it's very. It's very revolutionary. It's very. Take your. Take it back. You know what I mean? Like, that's the message. It's like, yeah, don't lay down. And I really like that because it's easy to just lay down. You know what I mean? And to see Spider be so focused, you know what I mean? And so not just focused one thing, but on a wide plan with multiple parts. We're going to break it down a bit, I'm sure, but just to see him, like, execute this large thing is just really great.
01:03:23
Jesse
Like, I really like it.
01:03:24
Keith
It's like the most. The most I've really been behind Spider is this arc, I think.
01:03:29
Case
Yeah, well, like I said, this is where Spider, like, starts to really mount his offensive, right?
01:03:35
Jesse
Yeah, By. By using the truth against the people that are in power. Yeah, yeah. Like exposing corruption within the. Within the church with the corruption within the political systems. Like, it's getting people to off themselves. It's like, you know, it's like, that's one vita. It's like. Yeah, like he doesn't do it himself directly, but he may as well have pulled the trigger.
01:04:01
Case
Yeah. And we'll get to that. So I just want to go beat by beat on this.
01:04:06
Jesse
Yeah.
01:04:06
Case
So arms dealer. So Spider gets a bunch of. Of equipment, which will be important, and they. They mention how much of the various materials that he gets, so that those are things for us to kind of like, keep track of mentally. He gets a carton of G sanitize and then ID trash can. The two things seem very similar, but they both effectively wipe away his residue if he's in a location. And he also gets a pair of guns that we see him sling over his shoulders and mount up. The assistants are not aware of the guns, though, because they're under his jacket and that'll be important as the series goes on.
01:04:49
Keith
Yeah, he keeps them purposely out of this whole arc too, which I think is very interesting. I will point out one thing that I kind of connected with that, with this equipment he's getting and his level of preparation is. It took me back to the interview with the Smiler where he was caught off guard, where the Smiler outsmarted him. And were talking about that's the first time someone actually, you know, got one up on him and deactivated his equipment. And wouldn't, you know, his recording didn't work and he was actually caught off guard. And I had this impression of him being so prepared, he's like, not again. I was like, yes. Fuck, yeah.
01:05:23
Case
And I like that the, the guy, the arms dealer guy is like, you're our man. Don't blow it for us. Like, yeah, it shows. The Spider has, like the. This, like, cachet of popularity and faith from people.
01:05:41
Jesse
Do we have anybody like that these days? Like somebody we would all get behind if they did something like this?
01:05:47
Case
No one this big.
01:05:48
Jesse
Yeah.
01:05:49
Keith
No. Not one person. No.
01:05:51
Jesse
That's a shame.
01:05:52
Keith
Some of. I mean, like a Jon Stewart, maybe like Stephen Colbert, you know, but like,.
01:05:59
Jesse
Like I was saying earlier on, I think that they've been sort of defanged because they're on major networks and they turn everything into a joke. It's like some of this stuff isn't funny, guys.
01:06:08
Case
On the note of not being funny, Spider is not making jokes at this point. So he goes to visit Kristen, the. The political consultant character, fixer character who turned into a drug dealer, now is a bar owner and has the reverse Charlie Brown bodyguard that Spider threatens with his bowel disruptor and then smacks in the head with several of these people and then kicks one of them out the window and it falls on a dog, which were just talking about the hatred of dogs, man. They really want you to feel bad for this one too, because they draw it as the most adorable looking puppy you can imagine.
01:06:52
Jesse
Yeah, if this came out now, this series would be canceled immediately. So, yeah, the John Wick effect is still happening.
01:07:04
Case
That is the edgelord humor of the series. But it is in character for Spider.
01:07:10
Jesse
Yeah, that's the thing with Spider is that as motivational as he can be as an influence to the populace, he is still an asshole. This is not a good man in any. Any way, really.
01:07:24
Keith
So that's one of the. One of the ongoing things we've said is the quote of, you're not wrong. You're Just an asshole. Like that's the most Spider thing. Yeah.
01:07:36
Jesse
You're not wrong. You're just an asshole.
01:07:37
Case
Yeah.
01:07:38
Jesse
Yeah.
01:07:40
Case
So Spider continues to beat up the various people working at this bar and then goes into the back room to deal with Kristen points out that he is not magical. True saying bastard Spidey. And brings up the fact that she made a lot of money on a bet that someone was going to get assassinated in. In the political teams for one of the two candidates. And it was a weird amount of money that. That she put in and indicates that she knew that this was happening.
01:08:08
Jesse
Backroom dealings. So you could make a bunch of money on the back end.
01:08:11
Case
Spider flat out indicates that she knew that this was coming and questions her about where she got the word from. She tries to get out of it. But the scene cuts away when Spider says, you've never met me before, as he continues to question her. And I do want to call attention to just like the really nice effect of her reflection in his sunglasses in that panel. It's just a. It's just good looking art there.
01:08:41
Jesse
Yeah, that's. It's one of the most angry images. It's just also with the. The little curly cue of. Of smoke rising just above his head to indicate steam. I was like, okay, he's pissed. He's really pissed. It's like, I love that.
01:08:59
Case
So then Spider visits a church and intervenes on a interaction between a priest and a young girl who. He sends her away and gives her some money. And she says, thank you, Spider. Because again, everyone knows who Spider is. And this is a scenario where his fame allows him to actually protect a person. He is not just a stranger in this scenario. He spied her Jerusalem. So she's able to trust him in a way that she wouldn't someone else.
01:09:29
Jesse
How she knows who he is odd.
01:09:32
Case
He's that famous.
01:09:34
Keith
Everybody knows who he is. So.
01:09:35
Jesse
Okay.
01:09:37
Case
But it turns out that this priest is part of a right love cell,.
01:09:44
Keith
Which we talked about before.
01:09:45
Case
Yep. So one of the big. The big buttons for. For Ellis in this whole series is this kind of like nambla kind of.
01:09:58
Jesse
Yeah.
01:09:58
Case
Minor stuff.
01:10:00
Jesse
Yeah.
01:10:01
Keith
And it was right in that era when that was like a thing that was in the news.
01:10:04
Jesse
So was this around the time that the. What was that movie Spotlight. Remember that? The whole breaking the story about all of the sex abuse allegations between.
01:10:15
Case
Yeah.
01:10:15
Jesse
The Catholic Church was around the time that happened.
01:10:17
Case
This is well before the movie. I have no idea when it happened in rel to the actual events. But I mean. I mean Certainly the conversations about like the Catholic Church, for example, was a big thing coming out in the 90s into the 2000s. So like relative to the spotlight story specifically, it was a burgeoning thing in the Zeitgeist. But anyway, so it turns out that. That this guy has a, a weird connection with Alan Shacht, the political director.
01:10:50
Jesse
Of the.
01:10:51
Case
Of the Smilers campaign. And so we find out, well, that there's some interesting connections here and they. Spider is. Is starting to collect his network of. Of stories and evidence again. And when he emerges one. One thing that is sort of really fun about it is that Spider's knuckles are. Are bloodied, which. There's a badass shot of him lighting a cigarette with his bloody knuckles.
01:11:22
Jesse
Yeah. Which became the COVID of the. I have the old editions of this series. The old versions of the story from the 1990s that were released in trades.
01:11:33
Case
Yeah.
01:11:34
Jesse
That image became the COVID of the original. The original first trade. That image. I think that was the. One of the first things that Derek Robinson actually drew was that image of spiders lighting up a cigarette.
01:11:46
Case
Well, the Spider lighting up a cigarette part is iconic and we get that all the time. I just mean like this specific shot of him with the bloody knuckles.
01:11:54
Jesse
Oh yeah. It's pointing out that he beat the living crap out of the priest.
01:11:58
Case
Yeah. And then we get the. The next page is a splash page which is. What is the COVID of the current version of the trade, which is him saying, I'm nobody's cartoon.
01:12:10
Keith
Right. Yeah.
01:12:11
Case
And it is, it's a really good looking shot of Spider.
01:12:14
Keith
I do. Like, we get the impression he's playing for keeps in this arc. I really like that.
01:12:18
Case
Yeah. So the next issue opens with Spider making a visit on Fred Christ. Welcome back, Fred.
01:12:26
Keith
Again,.
01:12:28
Jesse
What an. God, I hate this guy so much. What a great villain, though.
01:12:33
Case
Yeah. So. So Spider breaks into. Into Fred Christ's sex lair.
01:12:38
Jesse
I don't.
01:12:38
Case
I don't know what to describe it as.
01:12:40
Jesse
Harem, I guess.
01:12:42
Keith
Yeah.
01:12:43
Case
And notes that he is no longer around as he shoots one of. Of one of Christ's bodyguards with his bowel disruptor and causes him to have horrific. The setting is Rectal Volcano.
01:13:01
Keith
We get to learn several of the settings in this arc.
01:13:03
Case
Yeah.
01:13:04
Jesse
Again, Ellis's word play. I will never. I will never disparage the word play.
01:13:10
Case
What I would note here is we talked before about how it was actually pretty infrequent to see someone actually be the recipient of the battle disruptor. Like it Was usually played for comedy. And by being played for comedy, it was funnier to cut away before we actually saw someone get shot with it. It would be like you're full. It's like this is a battle disruptor and you're full of. And then cut away. You know, like those kind of moments there. Yeah, these are the moments where he is not around, where it's being played for seriousness. And those are the. Those are the times where we actually see it.
01:13:44
Jesse
You know, it reminds me of. You remember in Minority Report the batons that the cops would carry, the sick stick where it would make you involuntarily vomit in order to incapacitate you. That's what it kind of reminds me of. I don't know if somebody on Minority Reports prop department was a fan of this series, but this seems like a very weird connection. I don't know if it's. It's just liquids going out of ends of the. Of the body. I don't know if that was intentional. But it's. It's kind of a nice coincidence, I suppose.
01:14:15
Case
Every hole.
01:14:18
Jesse
God orgasmo or the ending of that is like he makes the villain constantly orgasm to the point where they amputate. Jesus Christ.
01:14:26
Case
So Spider now is quizzing Christ about his own connections to well, the horrors and everything that got run through the whole situation with the Smilers people. Then Spider goes out. We have this. Interesting. Interesting is the wrong word. We have this moment where he gets approached by Bruce Cunt a. A newspaper or a reporter for Street Stink. And it's just a moment for Spider to just enact some violence against a. A smug journalist.
01:15:07
Jesse
Yeah, I think it's meant to be a comment on like TMZ or like shitty news journalism or something like that.
01:15:13
Case
Yeah. I don't know if TMZ specifically is the kind of thing but like certainly the what is supposed to be a more prestigious. But it's just like a interview style journalist. I don't know.
01:15:28
Jesse
I guess supposed to be like a puff piece to kind of increase his reputation at the station. Like hey, I got an interview with Spider. This is awesome. So I think it's kind of what it's meant to be. And then he gets his nose broken. Yeah.
01:15:40
Keith
So I like so much that we're calling back to so much of what's happened so far in this issue leading to the next bit which is the Farsight community reservation, which was cool.
01:15:50
Jesse
I really like.
01:15:51
Case
Yes, I like this place and I like how far the Farsight community has Come. Since the last time we checked in with them, like, the designs for them have become tremendously more advanced.
01:16:02
Keith
Yeah, definitely. And I really like silk. I really dig that character. Yeah.
01:16:07
Jesse
She feels like kind of concepts and ideas that would be later extrapolated out for the LS series. Doctors, was it Dr. Sleepless, I believe, for Avatar. Basically, the transhumanism elements, people modifying their bodies with cybernetic parts. That series also did not get finished. Unfortunately. He was planning to return to it. He never did. And now Avatar has gone belly up. So that series is never returning. But, yeah, it feels like an extension. This feels like the early Prototype version of Dr. Sleepless. Content. Yeah.
01:16:47
Case
Anyways, so it sets up that Spider is using their. What they call, telefactoring system. What it does is it creates a clone puppet for you to operate remotely. And so Spider is going to telefactor and into California, and as a way of avoiding being observed to leave the city by the president, and especially being observed to going to California, which is where the president's family lives. And so this is his way of using his connections here to get around traditional means of detection.
01:17:21
Jesse
It's like a drone, kind of.
01:17:22
Case
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:17:23
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah, it's like a drone.
01:17:25
Keith
And I really like the. The way we kind of saw with the arms dealer and now here, where Spider's doing this stuff, but also the people around him support him. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, we know there's something wrong. You know what I mean? Like, because part of this story is the Smiler tricked the public. You know what I mean? And, like, it's really cool to see that they didn't turn on Spider, the public as a whole. So, yeah.
01:17:51
Jesse
Yeah.
01:17:52
Case
So Spider reflects on his. The. The timeline for his column, which is going to become a thing as the issue gets closer. And he goes to a bar where the lead guy from the Dante street riot is. Is drinking. And Spider basically tells everyone to get out of there, and everyone is compliant with this whole scenario. And he just beats the. Out of this dude.
01:18:22
Keith
I am so happy that they actually brought these guys back, because I remember when we reviewed that volume, I was like, if these guys just fade away into nothingness, I'm gonna be furious.
01:18:34
Jesse
Yeah.
01:18:35
Case
So it. Yeah. So here we go. Boom.
01:18:39
Keith
Right?
01:18:40
Jesse
You know what it feels like now with 2026 classes? This feels like beating, living out of a proud boy. That was a January 6th.
01:18:49
Keith
Yep.
01:18:50
Jesse
That's what it feels like. It's like, oh, they're still walking around.
01:18:52
Case
Yeah, it's that kind of catharsis right there.
01:18:55
Jesse
Yeah, yeah, Bad guy got away with it. Nope, you didn't. You got away from the cops, but not from me.
01:19:00
Case
So then he goes to the hotel that the Smiler stayed at and beats up the receptionist, who he notes is a former pimp and probably was still a pimp.
01:19:16
Jesse
I just love this guy's. This guy's hair is so stupid. So dumb. Oh, my God.
01:19:25
Keith
So this was the hotel where he had the interview. Because, like, remember when he. When he was invited to interview the.
01:19:33
Jesse
Smiler when the Smiler is in town for his campaign trail?
01:19:35
Case
The Smiler, Yes.
01:19:36
Keith
It's the same hotel because you can see it's got those golden floors that were all, like, gel and squishy we talked about. So it's literally the same hotel. So this. He literally comes back to this place.
01:19:46
Case
It's not the same hotel as where he met the Beast, though, which I.
01:19:50
Keith
Think the beast was the one with the yellow floor. That's right.
01:19:53
Case
That's a different.
01:19:53
Keith
You're right. You're right. Okay. I just saw the yellow floors and I was like, it's the same. But you're right, because that was the.
01:19:58
Case
Hotel fat, and this is the Hotel Avalon.
01:20:00
Keith
Oh, you're right. It was hotel fat. Yeah, my bad.
01:20:03
Case
Yeah. But anyway, so he. He threatened. He threatens this guy, and. And we don't see all the information that he gets out of him. He visits the Vita Severn Memorial site and says he hasn't forgotten a thing as he lights a candle for her. And then Royce wakes up with Spider Jerusalem having emailed him to send a column, and it's like, right before midnight, so it's right before the deadline for release. Now, some of this works on the. The way that publishing used to work, where you actually had printing presses and so forth. They're still printing windows and so forth, but with like an opinion piece column. You know, the. The deadlines part is.
01:20:48
Jesse
This is the most dated part of this story.
01:20:50
Case
Yes. Like. Like, you only have so much time to get it by. I. Like, you can either get it to print or you can get it to. To approvals. You can't do both. Like, in the real world, like now with like, digital prints, like, you can.
01:21:03
Jesse
Just take it down right away. If it goes up too quick, you can just.
01:21:06
Case
Exactly.
01:21:07
Jesse
But even then, if you do put it up and it's not something you meant to put up, it will still get screen capped by somebody and end up on like a Reddit thread. So things you didn't mean to get that somebody didn't mean to get out there in the public will still be out there available for people in the unedited version. So. Yeah, so I guess it still applies in a general respect, but yeah, this does feel like the most dated part of the story. Yeah.
01:21:35
Case
Well, and it's just a logistics thing like the story requires certain narrative conveniences just to exist like that. And I've put it.
01:21:46
Jesse
We're on this timetable. We have to meet this timetable.
01:21:49
Keith
Right.
01:21:49
Case
Yeah. It's just, it's just a world like that we have to. Have to roll with and that we don't need to know like none of us know enough about future publishing that we'll be able to anticipate like all the things. So we might as well just like have here's the plot MacGuffin. And, and just roll with it.
01:22:07
Jesse
It's fine. Yeah, it. As if I could just plug my own work again because I'm a. Like that. I've all. I've noticed that if you want to add like a drama to your scene, add a ticking clock. It's. It's the simplest trick. Just add a ticking clock. That's it. It just, it makes everything feel much more. Much more. What's the word I'm looking for? Not dramatic, but imperative. It's like we need to get this done by this time or bad shit's gonna happen. It's like, I mean, really, if you think about it, Spider could just wait till the next week. If you really think about it, he could just wait till the next week to release this stuff. There is no real deadline.
01:22:48
Jesse
It's just for the sake of the story and for the drama of the scene, he's got to get it out as fast as possible. If you want some drama, add a ticking clock.
01:22:57
Case
And Spider ends the issue with. With sort of noting that they are going to circumvent the whole D list situation bypassing approvals and in the end they'll have told the truth. Haha. And. And then we get into the reactions to Spider's column hitting as it did that. We see newspapers with a headline with Spider's web and different analysts like discussing it. I do like the one news guy with the smart glasses that are like just this weird semicircle that like goes around his head.
01:23:37
Jesse
Yeah. You know what it is? It's an inversion of Spider's glasses.
01:23:40
Case
Well, yeah, exactly. It's. It's based on the same design as Spider's glasses. And so I just find it like so ridiculous. Yeah.
01:23:50
Jesse
And he just looks so zoned out. It's like he's not even paying attention to what he's actually supposed to be doing. Yeah. So.
01:23:56
Case
So meanwhile, Royce comes into the office and the board of directors wants to speak with him. So we. It's like, dun, dun. Like there's going to be some repercussions for his actions. Yeah. So Spider is. So we see like, different coverage of various things that are going on, including discussions with the. The like with Callahan's family, like, news coverage there. And we see coverage of like, people trying to like, see what's going on with Alan Shack. We. We get a. A big splash page of the. Of the Smiler just saying Spider Jerusalem. And then Shaq shoots himself. And. And then. And Spider goes one down. Vita.
01:24:44
Keith
I have to call attention to the very simple line. Mrs. Callahan says the president's penis is quite small and crooked.
01:24:51
Jesse
Yes.
01:24:53
Keith
That hurt me.
01:24:55
Jesse
Yeah.
01:24:56
Keith
I took splash damage from that show.
01:24:58
Jesse
Like, I was like, oh, man.
01:24:59
Keith
Fuck.
01:25:01
Jesse
It's a very particular note.
01:25:04
Keith
It's like, Jesus. Like all the other things are just like really over the top. And that one is just like, you.
01:25:09
Jesse
Have a weird dick. Yeah, it's. It's. Let me very carefully explain what a piece of shit you are. Yeah. When Shaq finally offs himself, I made a note. That's one of my favorite quotes from Oscar Wilde. It's attributed to him, though it's not known if he actually said it. One of my favorite quotes ever. Some men only improve this world by leaving it. It's like that good. Yeah. No one's gonna miss you.
01:25:36
Case
Then we look back into the apartment and the assistants are taking phone calls with people who want to talk to Spider Dr. Muslim. And they are delaying all those calls. And Spider takes the phones away from them and says that he has died for their sins and shat himself.
01:25:56
Jesse
And I make note of the piece of artwork where he grabs the phones and it says a little tiny word. Snatch out of the hands of Yelena.
01:26:03
Case
Yes.
01:26:04
Jesse
Just little things like that. I just like those little. Those little bits.
01:26:09
Case
But Spider tells them to have most of their things, like, sent to a safe location and to grab a bug out bag each. And then we get a nice little callback here where he says, trust the cut to Robert McX, our favorite news commentator, discussing all the shit that's been going on with the Smilers approval ratings and so forth, and what's going on with Alan Schacht. Then we cut to the President masturbating into the American Flag.
01:26:38
Jesse
Funny story. I gotta stop right now.
01:26:40
Keith
No, I don't know what this story is.
01:26:42
Jesse
So the day I quit my job as a personal trainer at the gym, I. I worked for this guy. Piece of. I wrote him in as the villain in my book. He was a Navy guy for, like, eight years. He's super maga, Very right wing. He would refer to Asians as Chinamen. So this is a bad guy, a horrible person. When I quit, I said, go jerk off into the American flag, you asshole. And I walked out. It's like, yeah, that guy was a dick. And I pulled that right from this. I was like, so, yeah, that bit right there, that just. Yes, perfect.
01:27:15
Case
It stands out.
01:27:17
Jesse
It really does stand out. Yeah.
01:27:21
Case
So then we get Royce being raked over the coals by the board of directors, and he says, like, don't be weak. Like, enjoy the notoriety that. That. That comes from having told the truth. Meanwhile, we. We see some more news stories about everything that's gone on with the Dante street killing, with the interview he got with the. Like, with the douchebag who was the. The leader of that group. Meanwhile, we get Kristen cut, escaping from her bar, and before she gets even to her car, someone in a. One of those, like, Blur suits shoots her dead and also kills her, like, entire. Like, little.
01:28:05
Keith
Like, that was shocking, like. Like that happening. Because it was like this whole victory, you know, like, it felt like a big victory for them. And then this was like, a moment of, like. Like, there is a cost. But then I was also looking at it.
01:28:22
Jesse
Right.
01:28:24
Keith
And I don't know if I'm jumping ahead, double checking. We don't ever see who did this.
01:28:30
Case
Correct.
01:28:31
Keith
And they have two guns. This lady contributed to the death of Vita. I'm just gonna throw that out there. And, yeah, I have theories.
01:28:42
Jesse
I'm not gonna add anything.
01:28:44
Keith
Okay.
01:28:44
Case
Yeah, I'll let that theory linger. I'm not gonna comment.
01:28:48
Keith
Okay.
01:28:48
Jesse
Yeah, that's jumping ahead. Yeah.
01:28:52
Keith
It very specifically does not tell us who it is, so I thought that was interesting. Yeah, we.
01:28:57
Case
We cut back to Royce having or coming out of talking to the board of directors downtrodden. We cut back to Spider with the assistance and Royce calling, and Spider is on top of this whole situation. He is aware that everything he has done has. He's crossed the line and that he's getting fired for all of his bullshit. It's amazing that this is the. This is the line for. For all that stuff.
01:29:24
Jesse
Yeah. Like, everything else prior to this wasn't over the line. Okay.
01:29:29
Case
But, you know, it speaks to Spider knowing like what he can get away with and what he can't and like fucking with the politics of everything. Like that's where he can't get away with it all.
01:29:40
Jesse
From a modern day situation, you could probably say, like, because when you see the group of investors on the previous page, they're just in shadow. You don't see who it is and it's never said who they are. You could tangentially make implications that they might be financially supportive of the Smiler in a way.
01:30:01
Case
Yeah, for sure. Yeah.
01:30:02
Jesse
Yeah, you can. And so because of the that's been laid at the Smiler's feet because of Spider, there's like, no, we have to cut a loose. Yeah, yeah.
01:30:10
Keith
Or even like one of my favorite shows, the Newsroom. If you stand up to power can like keep you out of important meetings and such like that. It could just simply be capitalism. You know what I mean?
01:30:24
Jesse
Doesn't the Newsroom end with Jeff Daniels going to jail because he said the truth? Yeah, for a while. Yeah.
01:30:33
Case
So Spider is ahead of things. He has drained his bank accounts dry. He has used the company credit cards. He's maxed them out, so he's prepared. And so Spider is pretty nonchalant as Royce is like, no, your journalism insurance is cut off. Like everything is cut off. Like you're poison. No, no paper's gonna touch you.
01:30:59
Keith
Like, like he's like, no, it's okay, it's fine. Like, yeah, no, I already planned ahead. Like, I love it.
01:31:07
Case
And Spider leaves saying like that Royce has always been good by him and that they're not gonna see him anytime soon, but he'll be seeing that. Which is to say the Spider is going to be in the news.
01:31:20
Keith
Oh yeah.
01:31:21
Case
He leaves and he leaves the phone right after they're gone. The police are there to evict them because they were just like immediately going to be jumping on like as soon as Spider got fired, the police were called into a victim.
01:31:34
Jesse
Like, find an excuse to put him in jail and beat him.
01:31:38
Keith
But.
01:31:39
Case
And they arrived to find the entire place empty except for the maker, which releases a horrible Martian venereal disease in everyone.
01:31:51
Keith
One last Spider.
01:31:52
Jesse
Yeah.
01:31:54
Case
And the last page of the story is Spider with Yelena and Shannon running off into the city. Now they're cut free from their, their cushy gig with the word and they're about to go do some journalism dangerously. They're as outlaw journalists.
01:32:14
Keith
Yeah.
01:32:14
Jesse
Well, now it's true. Hunter s Thompson territory. It's like just straight up gonzo journalism not working for anybody but themselves.
01:32:21
Keith
With a stacked bank account.
01:32:22
Jesse
With a stacked bank account.
01:32:23
Keith
Yeah.
01:32:24
Jesse
Yeah.
01:32:25
Case
And that is the conclusion of Gouge Away. Keith, how we feeling?
01:32:29
Keith
I. I like how this wraps up. Like I said, the first story was weird, but then I do think the rest of it is really cohesive. And these three. This three parters, again, might be my favorite arc so far. Just because it's, like, hit back, you know, it's. It's like, yeah, get yours back. And I fucking hated Alan, you know that? I. Every time he came up, I was like, fucking Alan. And so seeing him get his is great. Him, I. I think he's the only person I hate more than the Smiler, because he's like, the Smiler, but also a little.
01:33:03
Jesse
So, like. Well, clearly also a pedophile, too, so there's. Yeah, yeah, there's that too.
01:33:10
Keith
I learned that, though I hated him from the beginning. And so, yeah, I'm starting to. Starting to see, like, dominoes are falling, and I really like that. And I do like the idea that they're going out on their own. They're going to be doing their own thing, you know, like, we're breaking up the status quo a bit. I think that's going to be fun. And it comes with some interesting dangers possibly. So, yeah, I'm excited to see where it goes from here. But highlight to me was. Was probably the. Yeah, the. The two assistant story. I thought that was a lot of fun. Really cute. I like it a lot.
01:33:41
Case
So it's always fun.
01:33:42
Keith
Elena has grown to me so much.
01:33:44
Case
Oh, yeah, she's great. She, like, she only gets better as.
01:33:48
Jesse
The series goes on.
01:33:49
Case
Yeah. Shannon comes in strong. Yelena, like, is very mousy at first and then, like, blooms as a wonderful flower.
01:33:58
Keith
Yeah, she's a particular type of character trope that I love, which I'd hate to reference. No game in twice in one podcast, but Door from neverwhere is the epitome of that trope. The kind of, like, small, unassuming girl, but then also becomes like a real character as you go on. I love that character trope. And so, yeah, I really like where she's going with it.
01:34:24
Case
Like, awesome growth for. For that character and great issue with. With the two of them. I have to agree. It's a really fun romp in there. You know, we have identified this thing about the Transmat formula where they will do, like, these, like, three issue arcs and then they'll do, like, three Issue breather episodes and then they'll do, like, another arc. And so we have seen that now has been the format for the last three volumes. I want to say.
01:34:53
Jesse
Yeah, rule of threes, build up, reinforcement, payoff. It's a very simple writer strope. The series is very kind of standard in terms of its structure. And then with your breather episodes, it allows you to get more growth of the world, growth of character, or just let the artists have fun. First issue with the hallucination episode, the TV episode, it's just giving more and Ellis a chance for artists to have fun with the characters. It's like a lot of these people are just his friends. It's like they were just his friends. Like, hey, Frank, come on in. I want you to draw Spider for a little while. Come on in, man.
01:35:30
Case
Oh, for sure. In terms of, like, the artists in that. Yeah, they definitely. It was, here's the people that we know.
01:35:37
Jesse
Yeah. And like, Frank would go on to work on, you know, All Star. Superman's like, one of the best Superman stories ever made. Like, you know, these people started out doing this stuff, you know, for Vertigo and then ascended upwards like it was. I mean, there was a documentary that came out about Warren Ellis called Captured ghosts. It's on YouTube for free now. A lot of it hasn't aged well, but there's a point where he just says, like, when I was starting out, I tried to give all these artists a chance to sort of ascend up the ladder. I always thought the tower was supposed to be done. It's like, so a lot of artists got their start doing, like, independent series that he was doing a, like Vertigo or Avatar or whatever. So, yeah, a lot of them are.
01:36:18
Keith
Still working today and also, like, these up and comers. But then also in the last volume, we had a cover by Jim Lee randomly.
01:36:26
Jesse
Yeah, well, because he was a DC with Vertigo and Jim Lee was working kind of fun.
01:36:31
Keith
Like, I was like, oh, it's one of the biggest artists in comics today. Like, that's crazy.
01:36:36
Jesse
The man running DC worked on this.
01:36:39
Keith
Yeah.
01:36:40
Case
Yeah. So I find this a fun story that is starting to see where things are going for the back half of the series. You know, we have, you know, disrupted the status quo in some pretty big ways now. And we've got, what, four more volumes left. This volume opened with, like I said, a recapitulation of the status quo, just for it to be, like, completely thrown out at the end of this volume. So I, I, this is why I didn't think that it was necessarily, like, a waste of an issue to do something like that. And we're going to see what Spider is doing, and. And we're seeing more and more of what Spider is doing to fight the smiler. And. And I think that this is just like a fun arc in that.
01:37:25
Jesse
Yeah, this is the stacking, dominoes story arc where he's getting. He's getting ready to pull off his. His grand scheme that pays off later on down the line.
01:37:34
Case
Yeah, man. I don't want to spoil anything that's.
01:37:37
Jesse
It's so hard to talk about these volume to volume, isn't it? Because you know where it's going. I will say. I will give away this one thing. You're gonna love the arc of Yelena. You're gonna love the arc. It's a really great.
01:37:50
Keith
I'm gonna read the next volume probably tomorrow morning. So.
01:37:53
Jesse
Yeah, it's a really good payoff.
01:37:55
Keith
Yeah. Because I've been. I've been really holding off trying not to read the head, and now I've done with this one, so I can go on the next one. So I'm very excited about that. Yeah.
01:38:04
Jesse
I. You have the. The more recent volumes that came out that have, like, the white covers and such. Is that right?
01:38:10
Keith
Yeah, I got the. The. The trades. The 10 trades.
01:38:13
Jesse
Okay. Is it still the same, like, issue order? Like. Like.
01:38:16
Case
No, it's slightly different from the original trades that came out. Okay. And that's why we've been, like, trying to reference, like, the way it was up on the DC Universe app, specifically, because I think it sort of equalizes by the. By the end. But, like, the first couple trades are, like, all over the place in terms of issue counts.
01:38:33
Jesse
Okay. Yeah. Because the first trade.
01:38:35
Keith
Four issues or something like that.
01:38:36
Jesse
The first trade, when it first came out, was only three issues. It was. That was. That was it. You know, I have the old ones. Yeah.
01:38:42
Keith
These are all six each, so. Yeah.
01:38:44
Case
Yeah. They.
01:38:45
Jesse
They probably did that for printing reasons. Probably because they wanted to condense more down. I. I understand, like, something. I just picked up the condensed volume of the Boys, Volume 1. It's like the first three arcs in one book, so. So it's technically three trades in one book. I understand you want to do it for the sake of printing reasons. You don't have to print as much. It's cheaper, but it's still. It's like, I like the larger volume on my shelf. It looks better. It's like, so. But yeah. So I love these Older versions, though, because just. I love that art. Just, like, it just punches you in the face. It's just so good.
01:39:27
Case
Yeah, it's a good cover.
01:39:28
Jesse
Yeah.
01:39:30
Case
Yeah. No, I. I'm so glad to, like, dig back into. To this and to see the different trades and to, like, to do image searches and, like, come. Come across it all. Like, I. I kickstarted, like, a. A transmat art book a ways back, like, sitting on my bookshelf behind me somewhere like that. There's such so many. So many cool artists, like, contributed, like, amazing covers or just, like, poster designs, like, for Spider Jerusalem in this, like, crazy, you know, dense urban sprawl.
01:40:04
Jesse
Yeah. I don't know if this is gonna be the only time I'm gonna be on this show to talk with you about trans men. I'd love to come back for another one before you guys wrap up. But I will say I. I really could see a sequel series to this. I mean, I don't know how you do it, because Vertigo's dead, but I. I really would love to see a sequel series back, actually.
01:40:23
Case
Yeah, Vertigo just. They just announced.
01:40:25
Jesse
Oh, they're back. Oh, they're back. Okay. Well, I mean. I mean.
01:40:30
Keith
I mean, with Warren.
01:40:33
Jesse
Yeah. Damn it.
01:40:35
Keith
Why are you an asshole elephant in the room?
01:40:38
Jesse
Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing that sucks.
01:40:43
Case
Was a magnum opus that. That can just let. We can just let live.
01:40:47
Jesse
Yeah.
01:40:48
Keith
Not everything needs a sequel.
01:40:49
Jesse
Yeah, that's fair. But, I mean, remember years ago, there was a sequel to 100 Bullets called Brother Lano, which completely undid the ending of 100 bullets. I was like, why did you do that, Azzarello?
01:41:03
Keith
Why?
01:41:04
Jesse
Because it's one of the characters that is supposedly, like, killed. And then you see, like, the bloody footprints walking away from the crime scene. And then you said, oh, I'm gonna make a sequel to that character. It's like, dude, the point is that you don't know where he went.
01:41:17
Keith
Yeah.
01:41:17
Jesse
And then he just undid the whole thing.
01:41:19
Case
It's like, okay, Jesse, thank you for coming on and talking about Trans Metropolitan. How. How has this reread. Has this sparked you to continue on? Are you gonna finish up the rest of the series, or.
01:41:35
Jesse
I was actually thinking I might just go back and do a full reread. It really is kind of just inspiring to see just a character that is a power fantasy. Yes. But at the same time, it's like, hey, you know, it's. It's prescient. You know, it's good to stay informed. It's. I haven't Done a reread of this in like 10 years. It's just been sitting on my shelf. It's just, it's great to admire it from afar, but I'm like, I've read it, don't need to go back to it. Very rarely do I reread things more than a couple of times. But going back through it today, I just like, damn, this is really good shit, this is really good. I might do it. And it.
01:42:08
Jesse
Not to spoil anything about the ending or anything like that, but it does feel hopeful because the ultimate finality of the series, it's all going to work out. No matter what, it's all going to work out. You know, not to spoil anything at all.
01:42:24
Keith
Yeah, it'll all work out.
01:42:25
Jesse
But yeah, I might do a full reread. I might pick up from here and go into the next one.
01:42:29
Case
Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm glad that you joined us for this little leg of the journey here.
01:42:35
Jesse
Yeah, thank you for having me. You know, if you want me to come back, if I can make it work and you don't have anybody else, I'd love to come back.
01:42:41
Case
At the moment we got a different guest book for every volume, but, it's all good. But appreciate the enthusiasm.
01:42:49
Jesse
All good, all good.
01:42:51
Case
Where can people find you and follow you, bud?
01:42:53
Jesse
They can find me on Blue Sky. It's just my name, Jesse Fresco, Instagram as well. Jesse Fresco. If you want to pick up copies of my book Skyhawk, just Google Jesse Fresco Skyhawk. It'll take you to Ingram Spark. You can order the book there. You can order through Amazon. There's a Kindle version as well. And my second book Drive Like Hell should be out. Should be out end of January, beginning of February. That's a simple little 100 page novella. Very much in the VN of the Richard Stark Parker series where it's jump in, have a fun little adventure story, get out, you know, so not a lot of investment. Am I still on X? Oh, yeah, I jumped back on X because I have to. That one is a hardcore B shot. My old Instagram handle that.
01:43:45
Jesse
When my old Instagram got hacked, I was like, I'll just make it my name. But I still have my old Instagram handle as my X handle. So I just. Why is it X? Just, just Twitter was fine. Yeah, yeah.
01:44:02
Case
No, I, the week that this is coming out, I, I just did an essay about the feelings of loss over social media and one of those was the transition of Twitter into X has made me lose so many Friends. Because like the. Just the great diaspora from that.
01:44:21
Jesse
Yeah.
01:44:23
Keith
I'm just glad most of the comic community went to Blue sky together, so.
01:44:26
Case
Yeah. Yeah.
01:44:28
Jesse
You ever guys ever heard of the dead Internet theory? You guys ever heard about that?
01:44:33
Case
No. Go ahead.
01:44:34
Jesse
So there's this belief that majority of the Internet right now is just bots because it's just a means of trying to just inflate the economy so people are like artificially buying things through bots. So there's a. There's a belief that most people don't actually get on all the time. And a lot of comments that you see are just server farms or cell phone farms. And I feel like that's what social media is at this point.
01:44:59
Keith
Pretty much.
01:44:59
Jesse
Yeah, yeah. Unless it's somebody that you directly connect with on a personal level and have met them in person, you probably don't know most of these people. They're probably not real people, so.
01:45:13
Case
Well, I don't know. I mean, like, I mean to a degree, really good positive social media encounters. I mean like Jesse, you and I like met via social media.
01:45:21
Jesse
That's fair. That's true, that's true.
01:45:23
Case
Like, like Keith is a little bit different just because it was more through direct podcasting. But, but like, for example, like Jim Fetters from Long Live the Legion, who is a previous guest on this show, like we. We met strictly through Twitter and then realized that were lived near each other and that was like a grounds for us to get beers at one point, you know, like social media, I. I have this golden vision of what social media can be and there is the most dystopian way that it is articulated, which is are shown in Trans Metropolitan and we are currently living in today. But on that note, Keith, where can people find you and follow you on the social media? Hellscape.
01:46:10
Keith
Yes. So the best place to find me is going to be Blue Sky. You can find my weekly comic book podcast that is part of the certain POV network We have issues at. We have issues Bsky Social. That is the best place to really keep up with me. I mostly use it as my personal account, but I do have a personal account I want to go and start using called Keith has Issues Bsky Social. Also follow me on Instagram for the podcast which is we have issues pod. It's new, so I had to stop and think, make sure to check it out there. I want to start using Instagram a little bit more. And other than that, really the best place to find me is in our discord Which I'm sure Case is about to tell you about.
01:46:49
Jesse
Yeah.
01:46:49
Case
Because the Discord is the best place to find me. It. It is available in our show notes or if you go to the website certainpov.com you'll find a link to our Discord right there. It is a great community that. That all three of us are part of and. And it's a great spot to come and interact with the chat and just have a great time. I really can't say enough good things about our Discord community. It's wonderful. If you want to get in touch with me and you don't like Discord for some reason, you can find me on other social medias at Case Aiken for the majority of them, with the exception of Instagram, where I'm holding on for dear life to my AIM screen name from high school, which is Quetzalcoatl5q u e t Z A L C o a T L5.
01:47:35
Case
It's because I was pretentious in high school, as evidenced by the fact that I was super into trans metropolitan. So yeah, that. That's how you can find me and all that. I. I should shout out. There is a patreon for certain POV. If you go to patreon.com certainpov media you can support this show. You can support all the stuff that I'm working on. It. It's would mean a lot because by the time this is dropping, I've got a second child.
01:48:09
Jesse
He's setting up franchises, folks. He's setting up franchises.
01:48:14
Keith
Here you go, Case. And you can become a Patreon. Like the following executive producers. I got the list. Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Moore, Lee Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey Akin, Nancy Akin, Adam Sampter and myself, Keith Lezanen.
01:48:39
Case
Thank you for shouting that out. I don't believe we've been doing that on these.
01:48:42
Keith
We haven't. But I was like, hey, let's do it. Screw it.
01:48:44
Case
Yeah, we should probably start doing that. Yeah. Yeah. No, but thank you for that. Thank you for all the people who are at the executive producer tier. It's really welcome. And thank you for everyone who has tuned in for this episode. Thank you to our guest, Jesse for being here today. This has been the Word from tomorrow. Have a great week. Cpov. Certainpov.com.