Another Pass at Buffy The Vampire Slayer
To celebrate the 25th anniversary of Buffy the Vampire Slayer the TV show, we’re talking about Buffy the Vampire Slayer… the movie. Matty Limerick from Saturday Morning Confidential joins Case and Sam to talk about film that launched a franchise in spite of itself! So come and find out if the trio can put a stake in the heart of the films problems!
Also, check out the coverage Matty’s been doing on the show (with Sam and Matt Storm, out editor)!
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Another Pass Full Episode
Originally aired: May 26, 2022
Music by Vin Macri and Matt Brogan
Podcast Edited by Matt Storm
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Time Codes
00:00 Intro + Welcome + Matthew Ryan Limerick Returns
02:20 Buffy (1992) vs the TV Show + Joss Whedon’s Complicated Relationship with the Film
06:20 Why the Movie Feels Like It Came Out at the Wrong Time (80s Camp vs 90s Goth)
10:30 Lothos, Vampire Aesthetics, and Why This Movie Needed More Leather
16:00 Missing Vampire Rules + Why the Worldbuilding Feels Incomplete
23:20 Surprise Cast MVPs – Paul Reubens, Seth Green, Hilary Swank, Ben Affleck, and More
35:40 Kristy Swanson vs Sarah Michelle Gellar – Who Fits Buffy Better?
43:30 Luke Perry’s Pike and Why He’s Secretly the Perfect 90s Love Interest
49:00 “You’re Not Like Other Girls” + Buffy’s Feminine Strength and Character Arc
52:50 Happy Ending vs Burning It All Down – Which Ending Actually Works?
56:40 Heathers, John Hughes, and the Teen Movie DNA of Buffy
01:02:00 Supporting Cast Chaos – Grueller, the Coach, Steven Root, and Pure Comedy
01:06:10 Paul Reubens Appreciation Hour + Why He Might’ve Been a Better Lothos
01:14:20 What Are the Actual Stakes? Lothos, Slayer Lore, and Why the Villain Needed More Motivation
01:20:00 Ad Break 01:21:30 Pitch Territory – How We Would Fix Buffy the Vampire Slayer
01:22:20 Sam’s Fix – Stronger Stakes, Better Lothos Motivation, and Leaning Into Camp
01:27:40 Matty’s Fix – More Slayer Mythology, Blood Moon Stakes, and Better Merrick
01:35:30 Case’s Fix – Lothos Needs Slayer Blood to Survive + Clearer Vampire Rules
01:47:30 Final Thoughts – Why Buffy (1992) Still Works as a Cult Classic
01:50:30 Guest Plugs + Next Episode: Highlander II: The Quickening
Transcription
00:00
Matty
I will also posit that her Daphne Blake in Scooby Doo is very much this Buffy.
00:06
Case
Okay, that's fair. Like, I'm not trying. Like, I'm not trying to make too hard of a stance on this one.
00:10
Matty
Do you guys hear that Case hates Sarah Michelle Gellar. He hates it.
00:14
Sam
And he loves Christy Swans.
00:16
Matty
He loves Republican Christie Swanson. Oh, man. I'm sorry to Case.
00:20
Case
Anyone who knew me in high school is going to be like, what the fuck is he talking about? Because he had such a crush on Sarah Michelle Gellar in high school.
00:24
Matty
I mean, I still have a crush on Sarah Michelle Gellar, and I'm not even into women.
00:30
Case
Welcome to Another Pass podcast with Case and Sam, where we take another look at movies that we find fascinating but flawed. Let's see how we could have fixed them. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Another Pass podcast. I'm Casey Akin, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.
00:49
Sam
Hi.
00:50
Case
And today we are driving a stake through the heart of an underrated film. Today we are Talking about the 1992 cult classic Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And to do that, I could think of no one better than to be joined by Matthew Ryan. Limerick.
01:06
Matty
Hi, I'm back. Hi, friends.
01:12
Case
Hi.
01:13
Sam
Hello.
01:14
Case
It's so good to have you back on. Now, in. In reality, I just did an episode of your show yesterday. So I was just talk to you.
01:21
Matty
Literally 24 hours ago. But like, that. That is. That is the wibbly wimey. Such. The best part of podcast time is like, did they record this two days ago? Have they recorded four episodes in two days? Was this recorded a year ago? Who knows? That's for us to know.
01:39
Case
But it's great having you back on. It's been a while. It was actually episode 101. So Sam's technical first episode was the last time you were on?
01:47
Matty
Yes, yes.
01:49
Case
So we are a full year and then some.
01:52
Matty
Since then, we are. Lots has happened. That was Pokemon. Yeah, that was the Pokemon event.
01:57
Sam
Yes.
01:57
Matty
Oh, my God, yes. Very far.
01:59
Sam
An emotional journey.
02:00
Matty
An emotional journey, as of course.
02:02
Sam
Of course, told the best way possible.
02:06
Matty
With animated dog fighting. No, I'm.
02:10
Sam
Slightly, you know, with a. Slightly unethical. Maybe made us question our whole childhood's true point of view.
02:18
Matty
It's absolutely true. Absolutely.
02:23
Case
But today we're not talking about animated dog fighting. Today we're talking about a movie that was critically panned at the time it came out. And then a couple years later, a TV show spin off was launched. And I was like, really? That okay. And then that became a cultural phenomenon that launched the careers of so many people and put a certain person on the map that, you know, is complicated. So. So this could be an interesting conversation because, like.
02:54
Matty
Absolutely.
02:55
Case
Let's just say the name and get it out the way, because we're not going to not be able to say the name. Joss Whedon. Fucking Joss Whedon. So Buffy the Vampire Slayer was Joss Whedon's first big screenplay. He. He sold it after working in television for a while. And then. Joss Whedon is not good at working with teams of people. Like, he. He really cannot be a team player. He can. He can boss people around, but he has a hard time working with people and walked off the set of this movie when they started making changes because it's a movie and people make changes. And then he spent his entire career badmouthing this movie. So there's. There's a lot to say about this, but a lot of it is colored by the lens of the.
03:35
Case
The Buffy TV show fandom accepting Joss being like, this movie. And so there's a lot of people who. Who just kind of hate this movie just because it's not the show. And that's kind of a bummer, because I like this movie. Well.
03:49
Matty
And he still did something really important, which is they still reference what happens in this movie as to why Buffy goes to Sunnydale. Like, they retcon a lot, but they keep. And they even. I mean, they even. I mean, the Sarah Michelle Gellar Buffy even references pike in, like, Losing Merrick in the TV show. So, you know, it's one of those things that he can hate it all he wants, but it honestly really grounded that there was a before. And I think that's what makes the Buffy series, especially season one. Cause it's a little rocky. It was hard to get people on board.
04:28
Matty
And having those two connections, even though you don't have to have seen this before, you watch Season giving it a background and still considering it canon within the larger scope, I think it's important storytelling wise to who Buffy ultimately is.
04:42
Sam
Right. Yeah. And I think that, like, yes, he spent a lot of time badmouthing it, but being Joss Whedon and being the person of ego that he is, it was at least his first creation. So he still had to reference it slightly and keep it in the loop, even if he hated, you know, and he would say very often, oh, you know, it was my idea, and it was wonderful, but it was distorted. And now with the Show I'm getting to do what I want to do. And I mean, on some level, that's valid. That's valid. That's fine. You're getting to do what you want to do. You're creating what you want to do. But this film is phenomenal. This film is ridiculous, and it is not perfect. There's definitely things that could be fixed in it.
05:29
Sam
But as I said before we even started rolling, this is the best cinematic death scene ever. Best vampire slay ever. And I will die on that hill five minutes straight, making faces, falling to the ground, saying, he died a valiant death. And I will be happy about it because I enjoy it. I enjoyed it still to this day. Dying. Dying.
05:59
Case
And then when you die on that hill and we have your funeral, we will play the Ghostbusters theme as per your request.
06:04
Sam
Yes, please, please have an orchestra, string quartet. I don't care. Make it classy.
06:10
Matty
We have to. We absolutely have to. Absolutely.
06:13
Sam
Would Also expect gospel chorus, just a bunch of random performers, you know, just all singing. You don't even have to make an arrangement, guys.
06:21
Matty
We can just.
06:21
Sam
It can be from the heart. It's fine.
06:24
Case
So I had this thought while watching this movie, this. This time, that the really similar to. To our conversation about Batman and Robin, that it just came out kind of at the wrong time. And it wasn't really reading the room for what people wanted at the time. Like, I was thinking about how this movie, like, I got real Return of the Living Dead vibes on this rewatch, you know, because there's this camp fun kind of aspect going on to it all. Like, there's this 80s goofiness to it, but that's also not how, like, we had sort of moved into, like, displaying these kind of horror things by this point. You know, this is the same year that Bram Stoker's Dracula came out. You know, this is.
07:02
Case
This is a time where like, the Tim Burton aesthetic had started to take over a lot of stuff. Where, like, people kind of wanted, like, a bit, you know, darker, but not necessarily, like, serious dark, but, like, goth camp is what I think people wanted. And this movie's not really doing that, or it's doing, or at least not the 90s version of that, I should say. Like, you know, there isn't a lot of leather, for example, would be a thing that I would really imagine seeing if they were, like, really trying. Trying to read them. Because, like, compare this with, like, Blade. Like, Blade came out the year before the Matrix. It looks a lot like the Matrix. It looks A lot like the action movies of the time. So all of those elements of it kind of like it fit together.
07:42
Case
And this one feels like it should have been like five years earlier or.
07:46
Matty
Two years later, because it feels. It feels very much like it is like that. It's referencing Clueless before Clueless has come out. But it also.
07:55
Case
Right, it's three years before Clueless, which is so weird.
07:58
Matty
But it's also a literal. It's so self referential to Valley Girl with Julie Brown that came out in 1983. Like, it is so, like, this has such an Earth girls are easy vibe to me that I think works when you go fully camp. But at some point, I don't think anyone went, what we're doing is camp. I think it just became camp. And you know. Cause it's also like, I love that you reference leather because for me, there's an iconic moment in this movie and it's when she puts on Pike's jacket for the first time and she's in that white dress because they literally reference it in the finale of season one when she's going to fight the Master. I was gonna call it the first, but that is not the first. The first comes season seven. That's a very different season.
08:47
Sam
That's a very different season.
08:48
Matty
Very different.
08:49
Sam
That's a journey.
08:50
Matty
Oh, and there's a lot of.
08:53
Sam
We'll talk about it. We're slick.
08:54
Case
Yeah, we'll talk about it.
08:55
Matty
But yeah, but it's that to me. And so it's funny, like, I so inherently associate Buffy with leather, whether it's the red leather pants or the black leather jacket. Also because Faith wears the leather vest as she has a leather jacket. Spike is always in that duster. Even when we see the 1970s slayer, she is in leather. It just intrinsically. Also, it was fashion of the late 90s. Yeah, yeah. But leather. I think it's so funny to reference that because leather. Oh, also like vampire Willow, Drusilla. I mean, Angelus, all the vampires. Literally all the vampires.
09:34
Sam
All of them.
09:35
Case
And none of them wear leather in this movie.
09:37
Matty
No.
09:37
Sam
Well.
09:37
Matty
And it's funny because even Harmony is soft. And then she becomes a vampire and then suddenly it's like leather dresses and you're like, yeah, okay, I get it. They just get the memo when they wake up with the demon. The demon just craves leather.
09:50
Sam
Well, I just feel like there's like maybe a vampire stylist that's just like, oh, sorry, you have fangs now. No, you have to wear this.
09:57
Case
Yeah. You have to Wear flesh so that you can consume flesh.
10:00
Matty
It's true. Yeah. It's like they have to go and have, like, an orientation. It all happens ethereally before they wake up in the casket.
10:08
Sam
Again, it's actually the work uniform. We expect you to be in work attire at all times when hunting.
10:16
Matty
It vaguely sounds like going through theme park initiation, honestly. And so I'm a little scarred by that. But I love it. I just love that it's broken down that way. But yeah, you have to have leather vampires in leather. Like, it's just kind of par for the course. Even in Twilight, they were in leather at different points. So, like, it's just par for the course.
10:32
Case
90S vampires especially, you know, like, that's again, like. Like, Lothos feels like a Bela Lugosi type vampire. And I just don't feel like the audience was there for that type of vampire in 1992.
10:44
Sam
Okay. But that cape, I'm just.
10:46
Matty
Oh, yeah.
10:47
Case
With like the extensions. Like. Yeah, no, that's beautiful.
10:49
Matty
Well, but even because you. I mean, you thinking about. Because 90s was nothing but a V resurgence because we also had vampire or Kindred, the Embraced, which is the Vampire the Masquerade series. Even though it kind of failed, this.
11:02
Case
Was the apex of the Anne Rice vampire.
11:04
Matty
Absolutely. Like, so it's one of those things that. I think the cape works and is beautiful. If you're referencing, like, Gary Oldman handled it so beautifully as Dracula in Bram Stoker. It's Gary Ollman, right? Am I not. Yeah, Gary Ollman. And so there is still a regal danger to him. But it's also like, you can tell this movie costumes was not in the budget. They, they. They didn't. So a lot of it's very costumey. And honestly, the, like, young vampires work better because they look like everybody else, just with the really cringy prosthetics. Like, so I think it's one of those things that, like, he could have been a really terrify, like, Lothos could have been a really terrifying, like, villain. But. But because he was in a different movie than everybody else.
11:58
Case
Right.
11:59
Matty
Like, you know, it's one of those things when your actor doesn't get the memo, like. Cause even he looks different than the layer that he wakes up in. Like, that layer is fucking cool. And very on par for the series that would come later. But like, yeah, I love the cape, but it's very Hollywood costume and makeup. Like, it's. It's like they walked in and bought.
12:21
Case
It from a costume shop rewatching it this time. Like, you brought up the finale of season one, and I kept thinking about season one's finale. It's almost like a redux of this movie, particularly the third act of it. And the thing I missed the most from that finale that I really wanted in this movie was everyone. The running joke of I like your dress. That was in that finale where everyone, including the Master, after he like. Spoiler for the season one finale of Buffy.
12:45
Matty
It's been 25 years, Case. It's fine. 25 Years. This is literally to celebrate the 20, right?
12:51
Case
Yeah. When the Master kills Buffy, she gets better, but he kills her at the end. Like, he then says, I like your dress. And that's like the rule of three for the sequence of people saying that they like her dress, which was like, a nice element in there, because that's the balance of the, like, the. The poppy, popular girl kind of vibe along within the vampire stuff, which is like that. That tension between those two is the whole point of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
13:14
Sam
Yeah.
13:15
Matty
Also, it's something that, again, you know, the Master does feel very redux in many ways, but only because there is this. It's the thing that Ralph Fiennes does as Voldemort that I also think works very well is when there is this weird, like, regal aristocracy sticking to rules of decorum. When it comes to being, like, a master villain that's lived forever. The Master had very much this, like, level of class and decorum that he is the raging evil. But there is just, like, a gen. A gentilism to him. Even with this idea of, like, he is so evil and such an old vampire that, like, he's just.
14:00
Sam
He's grotesque.
14:01
Matty
He's grotesque, which is why he needs the newer vampires to do his bidding. But that's also why it's almost more. That alone is scarier than what we got with Lothos. Just because you can see that he's in, like, powder white foundation and, like, bad. Like, he doesn't even have the prosthetics. He's in a Dance of the Vampire Michael Crawford costume. Like, you know, it's just one of those things that even the slight changes they made with the Master, even though it's more or less the same story, those things alone made him so much scarier. The fact that also that they kind of had to come to him, that he was growing in power, but was still. There's a frailness with his age and kind of the kind of how we must ascend back to power.
14:51
Sam
Yeah. I think Also, intrinsically, the big issue in the film with Lothos is just like, he just seems like kind of a creepy dude, right?
15:02
Case
Yeah.
15:02
Sam
Like, he's just kind of like a creepy old man that may or may not have a thing for the Slayer. Because he's not. He's not. Like, he has an opportunity, really, to take her out, like in the middle of the movie, and he doesn't do it. And Merrick just kind of runs in, is like, not yet. She's not ready. I was like, what is she, a ham? Like, you're waiting for her to be completely, like, non pink in the center. Like, what is going on? And it was just kind of like. Like Merrick knows. Like, oh, you won't have as much excitement fighting her now because she's not ready for it. And it was just kind of like this weird. It was this weird thing.
15:40
Sam
And that's what they do so well in the first season, is it's not that Buffy's not ready, it's that the Master's not ready because he's growing in power.
15:50
Case
Well, he's trapped, right?
15:52
Sam
And he's trapped. And so that kind of in the film doesn't really work because you don't really fully explain what the obsession is. Is for Lothos to the Slayer. Like, why is it more important to just possess the Slayer? Is this. Is this like weird, campy, sexual. Like, is this like, I have to own the Slayer? Or is it like, if the Slayer hits a certain point and I. And I drink her blood and I drink her dry, then I'm imbued with some sort of extra powers. But there's no really, like, through line that tells me what the case is and why he has to wait. Like, you know, like, if she's just like a vintage of fine wine that has to sit on the shelf for a certain amount of years, then I get it.
16:41
Sam
And a simple line of being like, she's not 18 yet. Damn, that's not the right vintage yet. I'll have to wait, you know. But that doesn't happen, right? Like that. That. So it's just like, kind of awkward. And that makes Lothos kind of this weird, just middle ground. He's just there. He's set dressing. He's there to play a violin and decide that they're going to a party. And that's basically it. Because the scene that's kind of. Or that does work, that is kind of creepy is the scene when she's in her bedroom and she takes a red ribbon and she ties it in her hair, nice and slowly, and it's so beautifully done. And then she walks ethereally to her bed and she turns off the light. And I was thinking, I don't.
17:29
Sam
I don't know, like, you've just spent a lot of time, like, learning about. I don't know if I'd be able to turn off the light. But she turns off the light and she goes to her bed, and you clearly see a man in her bed, but she does not react to it. And she lies down and. As if it's her bed. And then she's just there laying and cuddling up to Lothos. And it's so eerie, it's so weird. And it's. Speaks to this relationship that is never quite developed. Like, this idea that he's, like, kind of seducing her in her mind, which we get a lot with vampires, right? Reaching out through dreams, but it's never really followed.
18:05
Case
Yeah. There's like a throwaway line later where he says, you and I are linked. That sort of implies that. And you get this whole element of, like, whenever she confronts him, he's so mesmerizing. But. But they don't explain it all. Like. Like, one thing I was. I kept thinking about in this movie was that they don't lay out the rules of vampires. And, like, you know, it's kind of a trope that all, like, vampire fiction kind of has to lay out the rules of their vampires for it. But, like, this is the movie where that should happen because she's a vampire slayer. So, like, we should have a sequence explaining, like, all right, so here's the deal on vampires. They can't go out in sun because they'll burn. Like, they have. Like, they can't come inside without inviting you because of, like, supernatur restrictions.
18:49
Case
And that could be a time to explain, like, how, like, how this, like, reincarnation element that is not present in the later Buffy material, but, like, that Buffy is sort of either reincarnated, like the Slayers keeps on being reincarnated, or that at the very least, that they can feel the memories or the presence of the previous Slayers and that Merrick keeps being reincarnated with his memories. You know, like, explain all that a little bit more.
19:11
Matty
Yeah.
19:11
Sam
Yeah.
19:13
Matty
Well, I mean, yes.
19:15
Sam
I mean, they kind of do sort of. They just don't explain it to Buffy.
19:19
Matty
It's all so creepy, though. Like, it's. It's just two older men obsessing over a teenage girl, and it's really gross. The Whole time.
19:28
Case
It's so bad that she's explicitly in high school and it's Rutger Hauer, like, just looking like a full on, like, creepy old man. And like, you know, vampire prosthetics sometimes just makes it just like a little bit creepier when they're, like, doing anything kind of lusty and they've got these like, fake teeth, like, kind of popping out of their mouths. And like, part of that's always vampire stuff anyway. But it's just like Luder when it's, you know, a high school girl.
19:56
Sam
Yeah. I mean, even pike is an adult.
19:59
Case
Yeah, I. I mean, so there's always Luke Perry age.
20:03
Sam
But he's also already. I mean, yes, he's Luke Perry, but, like, he can't. He's definitely in his 20s. Like. Like, he's definitely an adult. He's. He definitely should not be spending all of his time hanging out with a high school cheerleader.
20:18
Case
Yeah, I mean, they don't. They don't spell it out. And like, you know, like, there's the difference of Luke Perry, who had gotten famous for playing a high school kid despite being in his, like, late 20s at the time. And, like, there's like that element going on. But, like, Kristy Swanson's also 22 in this. It's not, you know, like, Buffy's supposed to be a senior and so she's 18. I could see pike as being like a 20 year old and it's like, not that gross. But, like, the bigger issue is Lothos.
20:42
Matty
I also think that he's in some ways, or maybe it was at some point that he's like a dropout. Like, that's the thing is they're like approximately the same age, but he just doesn't go to school. He dropped out. It's beyond them. He's not from there and came to there. I mean, again, this is an example of a script that got taken from the writer, even though we know him to be very problematic now and was just brutalized by everyone in between to kind of cobble together the. The story that they ended up telling.
21:13
Case
But the challenge isn't to say, like, well, can a movie be made exactly as the screenplay? Because, like, no. No screenplay is going to survive even just the budget meetings completely un. Like unharmed. Like there's. That's going to occur. The challenge is making a movie in spite of all of those hurdles that making a movie invokes and making it work appropriately. Like, if you've got a powerful star playing this, like, character who just Kind of wants to ad lib stuff. You have to work with that. Like. Like Whedon didn't want to work with any of this. Like, that's. That I think is a big problem there. Like, he. He did not take people's ideas and try to incorporate them. He just said, like, no, let's do it my way. And when they didn't.
21:53
Case
And Donald Sutherland could get away with that, like, that's when you have, like, temper tantrums on set.
21:58
Matty
Well, and it's be. I mean, just the. That Sutherland would show up with all his own rewrites and not approve them with anyone. And the director was like, he's the biggest star. Who cares? And it's like, your actor can't. Like, the Cramps thing was apparently Sutherland. All the inherently female issues were all Sutherland making her so demure and womanly was all. A lot of his work as well. And I was. Which all sounds like things now that Whedon actually would have probably put in his script after we've seen the travesty that was. Is writing for Black Widow. But, like, you know, it's. It's one of those things that, like, it's. It is still astonishing that we enjoy this movie and, you know, that it was enjoyable. But even, you know.
22:46
Sam
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, the cramp thing, I was like, really? Really? It. It's. It already sucks to be the Slayer. Like, she's got to have cramps. Like, that's the thing. Like, you can give her spidey sense. Like, you can't just make it tingle in the front of her head. It's got to be related to her womb. Yeah, that was very like,
23:06
Matty
I mean, also, vampires are never exactly subtle, ever. Like, you can hear them coming.
23:14
Case
Yeah, not in this series. Not in this movie.
23:18
Matty
But I mean, we are forgetting the shining star of this movie. Who is. Who is Paul Reubens?
23:26
Sam
He is. He's the best part of this movie.
23:28
Matty
But also, I forget that this movie is kind of a who's who. We have a very young hero, Hilary Swank. We have an uncredited Ben Affleck. Yes. Yeah, of course, you're right. As the basketball player. Ricky Lake was in this. I did not see her. But importantly, there is another tie to the Buffy series.
23:48
Sam
Oh, I know, exactly.
23:49
Case
Seth Green.
23:50
Matty
Our baby. Little Seth Green as a vampire. But you also had, like, Alexis Arquette was the dj. I mean, David Arquette's in the movie. Like, it's one of those things that it's like, oh, this movie, it had some clout, though. I had no idea who Candy Clark was, who played Buffy's mom, but she got the literal top billing before everyone else in the credits. And I was like, am I supposed to know who she is?
24:15
Case
That was a weird credit. I saw that this time. And I was like, wait, what is that?
24:19
Matty
Well, I mean, she. She's most known, I think, for American Graffiti. She got an Oscar nomination for that. But like, that was 20 years before this. But, like, you know, so I guess she hadn't worked a ton after. But, you know, it's funny, it was just a.
24:33
Case
It's a weird credit unit because it's like the movie ends and it's that, like, Candy Clark is Buffy's mom, and then, like, then the credits rolled.
24:40
Matty
Well, and what's funny is also to think of this. Something else we forgot to reference earlier is this is post Lost Boys. Lost Boys, to me, is tonally what this movie should have been. Because there is still a great camp aspect to Lost Boys. But Case, I think you made a really good point that they were too. They're in many ways trying to explain the Slayer to us. And for me, the Slayer was the easiest thing to understand. But, like, they were like, you gotta invite me in, Pike. You gotta invite me in. And it was like, oh, okay, we get that aspect of a vampire, I guess. But like everything else, they didn't build the parameters of the world.
25:18
Sam
Yeah, none at all. Although Paul Ribbons did have a problem with high beams lights on a car, so apparently. Yeah, lots of light. Not happy about.
25:29
Case
Yeah, it just would have been nice to, like, kind of go into. Because, like, later on, like, we get the. The nice callback to the. My keen fashion sense at the very end of the movie where she pulls up the cross and it's like, you're faith. And like, at no point in this movie up until that spot, have we discussed crosses. Have we discussed, like, what they can do with it? Or if Lothos is particularly impressive by being able to set it on fire by sheer force of will. Now, I get that all of this is parody of existing vampire lore, but. But I'm just saying that in this movie, it would have been nice. You know, I'm going to keep talking about Blade because Blade is a really natural movie to, like, compare it to.
26:01
Case
In the first Blade movie, all you needed was that. That walking talk where blades like crosses don't. Doesn't do running water, doesn't do shit. You need silver if you're gonna, like, kill them. You know, he just like, rattles off, like, the Five major rules of, like, how you deal with a vampire. And it's like, that's. That's all I needed. That was it.
26:18
Sam
And honestly, it would have been a lot less creepy than some of the training that happened.
26:25
Matty
Also, he wears that terrible tweed suit the whole time. I mean, we also, again, when we compare it now we have to compare it to the series. And, like, no one plays a watcher like Anthony Stewart Head.
26:38
Sam
So, like, agreed.
26:40
Matty
You know, it's one of those things.
26:41
Sam
But Giles for life.
26:43
Matty
Go on also. Cause then when they let Giles get sexy in season four, and you're like, ripa. Ooh, Ripa. Hello, sir. And there's like, you know, he has his lady friend who is also a watcher, and he's all like, shirtless in season four, and he sings. And it's like, I now understand why past layers have fallen for their watchers. But, you know, it is interesting that they, again, Marty Knox in. In who would go on to do a ton of Buffy writing, pretty much leading the Buffy universe for Jaws on episodes he didn't write. They have these, like, books called Tales of the Slayers that people wrote where it was, like, individual stories of past layers from their watchers journals. They bring Merrick back again for the. The Slayer who was born before Buffy India, and they change his character quite a bit.
27:34
Matty
But they still reference so much of, like, what he did in this movie as well, which it was one of those things that was like, well, they've obviously seen something that works, and so they're keeping these little bits of it through to keep the continuity of the universe. But that's, I think, my biggest issue with this movie. Between the kind of the writing of the universe and the costumes of the universe, that it doesn't build the actual parameters of the universe for me in the way that the TV show did.
28:03
Case
Right. And I don't need it all to be, like, world building. This is. This is a standalone movie, like, through and through. It's not intended to have sequels. It's just, you know, beyond just the implication that Buffy is now out there fighting vampires because. Awesome. You know, it. It's just that they. They aren't setting the rules for us to then work with those as, like, that's part of the fun of, like, fighting the supernatural. Like, they don't follow the rules of. Of nature. They are like, that's. That's why we say supernatural natural.
28:32
Matty
Exactly. Right.
28:33
Case
Like. Like, you can shoot like, a bear and it will die, but you can't just shoot a vampire. And it will die because it's not a thing according to the rules of our existence. And that's why it's, like. Is important sometimes to set up these rules, or at the very least, like, set some of the rules. And, like, sure, the. The don't come in. Which, honestly, I was a thing I wasn't really familiar with before I got into Buffy stuff. Like, I just didn't notice that in vampire lore. Like, it was. It's there. Like, I just never, like. I never paid attention to it. And maybe because, like, so much of the stuff I had seen it at that point was like. Was like Blade and, like. Was like other stuff where they'd already, like, thrown that part out the window.
29:06
Sam
Interesting.
29:07
Case
So when. When you get here, it would be nice to be like, all right, yeah, that crucifix matters. That, you know, the heart is the important spot. And, yeah, we get the training scene where we emphasize that part. That's good. If it has to be wood or not, which is a thing in the series, but it isn't necessarily in this movie. Like, it could be any sort of, like, thing going for the heart, you know, like, it wasn't necessarily wood back in the day. What about beheading? What? You know, what about fire? You know, like, the fact that he. She's able to use the spray. The hairspray in conjunction with the flaming crucifix. Great scene.
29:39
Matty
Great moment. Great moment.
29:40
Case
Is fire a meaningful thing to use against a vampire? Like, are they able to mesmerize people? Clearly, Lothos can, but we never actually talk about that part.
29:50
Sam
Yeah, I mean, I. I feel like one. I'm a little scared for your vampire knowledge. Yeah. You do have to invite them in. No welcome mats that say welcome.
29:59
Matty
No welcome. No welcome.
30:00
Sam
No welcome mats. I'm like. I'm just gonna say that for anyone who's uneducated, their education has been ruined by Blade or whatever Case was watching. That's classic vampire lore, my friend. You have to invite them in. That is. That's classic. Little. Little worried for that. I. I tend to.
30:17
Case
I'm sorry. I was introduced to vampires through the counter, and I thought that was the most important thing for a long time.
30:23
Sam
Listen, I want the listeners to know that I generally defer almost all kind of knowledge to Case. I think that he's like an encyclopedia, walking encyclopedia. And now I am questioning my entire existence and trust within his knowledge. I will be examining this and processing it, but I will say that I think that you're right on a lot of levels. That this movie kind of just falls back on. Like, oh, people should know because training sequence, there's a moment where she like goes for his head and he's like, no, the heart. And like, that's basically the one of the rules. But because it's done in the midst of a like music montage, which is great, don't get me wrong, I love all the flipping and all the kicking. I wouldn't change that for the world.
31:11
Sam
But maybe, you know, maybe have some of the rules more defined. In the midst of that, you can still cut it into all the kicking and flipping. Maybe you don't have to have a blade like Sorkin walk through. Follow me, let me go through all the rules kind of thing. But you can have him going through it like, not like this. Like that. And like kind of, you know, chalkboard out the rules. So I do agree with you on that. But it does rely on stuff that is kind of just classic vampire stuff, you know, not edited, not new age 90s. Like very classic old school vampire stuff. The only thing we never talked about was garlic, which, I mean, yeah, but everything else in there was really classic. I mean, when they pulled that across, I was like, of course they did.
32:01
Case
Well, my point is just that like vampire film, especially vampire film of the back half of the 20th century, every single one tries to differentiate itself from other vampire media by saying they're different in X ways. So while this movie is kind of deliberately saying like, no, we're not going to worry about any of that would also have been fine too. Just to be like literally everything you've heard about vampires is true and just like establish that like all that vampire lore is also fine. You know, it doesn't break the movie for me. It just would have been nice.
32:34
Sam
They also could have alternatively they could have done it with her explaining it to Pike. Honestly, like at some point he's like, well, it's all real, right? Well, actually this is real, but this isn't real. But it's cool anyway, you know, and kind of done like that for a couple.
32:50
Case
That would have been a really cool story. You could have had her like kind of Valley Girl out, like the explanation of like vampire stuff. And that would have been like nice and different from other vampire lore.
32:59
Sam
Yeah. And that whole thing about garlic. Totally false. But anyway, what do you think of this nail color? I think it's really great and it really hides the blood. So all good well.
33:09
Matty
And I, you know, even it's the one aspect that the show always Focused on that her training was equally physical as well as like, intellectual. So, like, I would have liked, loved to seen her in one of those series that like, in one of those moments that like, he takes the stake out and then like, piles her arms full of like, really giant tomes of ancient texts. And so like, pike finds her one day, she's literally sitting in the park, like leafing through this giant biblical text with a silver cross or something on the front of it. Just even just those little things that would have been like, oh, so it's. It's because to me it just says, oh, she just got to be a bad bitch. She just got to be able to fight. And that solves the day.
33:48
Matty
But there's so much to like, understanding who the other girls, especially in this world. Because I understand for like, probably staffing reasons that, like, she always played the other Slayers in the past. They just threw wigs on her and gave it the stupid fucking mole. That's the other thing I was like, really? A birthmark. Okay. But you know, it's.
34:10
Sam
How else will we know? Not from the abilities.
34:13
Matty
Right. Well, then also in the series, it gets a little muddy when they're like, yeah, there's a giant book with a mag map that shows us where every potential Slayer is. And I was like, what?
34:22
Case
I'm sorry, plot convenience of later. And I don't think is too germane to this.
34:26
Matty
No, but I mean, then they blow up the Watchers Council, so that book goes bye. And so they have to hand find all the potentials. But. But yeah, it's still one of those things that, like, you know, there were just those little moments they could have. And for all we know, they did. And it was cut from the film just because pike suddenly understands how to like, slay a vampire in those moments. But it's also like, there was still that focus for his character of. Even though this is the damsel who is always in distress but can save herself, still needs someone to save her on occasion or have like, it sets up that idea that we would deliver on in the series of the Scoobies that like, the Slayer is only as strong as the team that is supporting her in the.
35:08
Sam
Yeah, she needs a support system.
35:09
Matty
Well, and we've seen that like in the later series that like the 70 slayer, which is Robin Wood's mother with Billy Idol Spike, she had no one and her watcher was killed, so she had no one. So the Slayer can only do what they can be supported to do. It's that we need to support women. Even demon slaying women. Always support women.
35:35
Sam
Especially demon slaying women.
35:37
Matty
Especially demon slaying women. Because there's a lot of demon Slayer dislike currently.
35:42
Sam
Yeah.
35:44
Case
Why don't we talk about the cast a little bit more specifically? We haven't actually talked about Buffy.
35:48
Matty
We have not. Yeah.
35:49
Case
And it. This seems like a good time to bring up, like, Christy does it.
35:53
Sam
Does it?
35:54
Case
So Christy Swanson has some complicated politics these days that make me angry. But I really like her in this movie. Like, I feel like her going, like, weird, crazy, hard, right these days. Like, it's the same reason. Like, I still like Dean Cain as Superman, even. Even though he would go, like, off the deep end later in life. Like, I. It's kind of just in the same scenario of, like, I feel like they never really thought about things. And then they got, like, they found that they got positive feedback when they said shitty stuff. And it just has compounded as they've gotten older and their careers, frankly, have kind of stagnated. But at this era, like, I think she's great. I think in terms of like. Like, this is gonna.
36:30
Case
This is gonna be the most controversial thing I'm gonna say on this whole podcast, which is that I think in terms of the general thesis of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which is that we are taking the. The stereotype of this, like, cheerleader type character, like, the last girl type situation where. Or maybe not even the last girl so much. The first girl type situation where it's. You're going to punish her for being vain and, like, just. And ditzy and, like, boy crazy and so forth. And then it turns out that she can actually kill the vampires that, like, come after her. Like, I think in terms of that idea, the fact that it's called Buffy the Vampire Slayer to generate that sort of irony right there. I think Christy Swanson does a better job than Sarah Michelle Gellar for being that character.
37:12
Case
I think that Sarah Michelle Geller, like, I love Sarah Michelle Geller so much. Like, I love the character of Buffy in the show, but she's already gone through that whole transformation process. And like, the season one stuff where she tries to be a cheerleader feels wrong. Like, it doesn't feel like Sarah. Like, Sarah Michelle Geller just doesn't feel like that kind of like, ditzy cheerleader. And Kristy Swanson, I think, nails it.
37:30
Sam
I mean, you can argue though, that, like. And I'm just gonna push back on this. Cause I think you're wrong, but you can argue that where Sarah Michelle Gellar starts since thematically she's technically gone through what Kristy Swanson went through. She can't just pick up and be a cheerleader again because she knows too much now.
37:51
Case
Oh, I agree. Like, Sarah Michelle Gellar is the better Buffy for the show. It's just that in terms of what this movie is and what that original idea, like, I don't think Sarah Michelle Geller you could have put in this movie and had her do as this part.
38:06
Matty
Well, I also would posit that they introduced Cordelia to span the gap between who Buffy was and who Buffy became. But also in the show, they allude that pike is killed by a vampire mid summer, like after this, that there are still more vampires and pike dies. And so she has lost everyone at some point in the show because she's like, I've lost several people that are very close to me from like the LA part of it when she's talking to Willow season one and like, her apprehension to getting close to Giles. So it kind of makes sense that she. Obviously the girls also don't give a shit about her anymore. Those three girls. So it's one of those things that.
38:44
Case
It's like,.
38:47
Matty
I accept and say yes to both of your explanations. I'm gonna be Switzerland here. Just because that. It's also the changes that had to happen to Buffy between the show. It's also a five year gap. And we go from. We go from a Valley Girl place to like a Melrose Place, kind of like something in between. Like media evolved in storytelling. So taking it from a camp film that was supposed to be a comedy to a dark series, that it is billed firstly as a dark series and then secondly as a comedy. That I think both of those things are correct. That like, Sarah could not do necessarily what they're accomplishing in this. But I think it's also cause Sarah understood the long game of the character, at least to the end of each season.
39:34
Case
Yeah. Again, I really am not trying to say that Sam Michelle is the worst Buffy. I'm just saying that the idea of Buffy in this movie is not one that I think you would cast Sarah Michelle Gellar for.
39:43
Sam
I disagree with that. But I also want to say that I'm not knocking Kristy Swanson, like, as Buffy. I think that she did a good job. I just think that it's not fair to be like, well, Sarah couldn't do this. Only because I feel like Sarah's assignment wasn't this. And that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that you can't compare the journey that Sarah had as Buffy because she already came into knowing, like, all this backstory and knowing that she was in a different place. Buffy's in a different place when we see her season one.
40:13
Matty
I will also posit that her Daphne Blake in Scooby Doo is very much this Buffy.
40:19
Case
Okay, that's fair. I'm not trying, like, I'm not trying to make too hard of a statement.
40:23
Matty
Do you guys hear that? Case hates Sarah Michelle Geller. He hates it.
40:27
Sam
And he loves Christie Swanson.
40:29
Matty
Loves Republican Christie Swanson. I'm sorry to Case.
40:33
Case
Anyone who knew me in high school is going to be like, what the is he talking about? Because he had such a crush on Michelle Geller in high school.
40:38
Matty
I mean, I still have a crush on Sarah Michelle Geller, and I'm not even into women. Like, I get it. I totally.
40:45
Sam
No, I, I, I understand what you're saying, Case, though, because I do think that there is, like, especially because the fandom is so in general, especially because Joss hated this film so much, there was a lot of hate and dislike thrown at this film. And, like, oh, it's not, like, a real. It's not the real Buffy. Like, the show's the real Buffy. And so I can kind of understand you saying, like, oh, like, no, actually, this is, like, her performance for this film was exactly what it needed to be. And that is true. What Kristy Swanson did in this film is exactly what Buffy needed to be for this film. And that is completely a valid take. I was just fighting back on, like, Sarah couldn't step into that, too, because I think she could, but I just.
41:29
Case
Think I'm just gonna say that Sarah Michelle Gellar was initially reading for Cordelia, and, like, there's a reason for that. Like, there's like, a little. I don't know. I, I don't know. I'm not trying to be that harsh on this one. I'm just trying to say that, like, I like the take of Buffy in this movie because that is the original idea of, like, all right, well, like, oh, isn't it funny? The person who you imagine to be the first victim of the vampire turns around and kicks the vampire's ass. Like, that's the, that's, like, the elevator pitch for this movie. And I, I think she does a great job in that. And they do it. You know, the TV show kind of ups the, like, the super strength aspect of the Slayer. This one.
42:02
Case
There's certainly some of that, but, like, a lot more of it is like gymnastics and just like agility in the combat, which I think is more difficult with the fight choreography of a TV show because you just can't do the type of camera work and you can't spend the days and days rehearsing a fight type that you would for a movie.
42:20
Sam
I think the show kind of amps up the power of the vampires too, though. The vampires in this one are easier to kill in general.
42:28
Case
Yeah. You can punch them and they'll respond.
42:30
Sam
Yeah. Luke Perry has no training. He just goes out there and just starts sticking them in the heart.
42:35
Case
But the show does take away their flying ability, thank God.
42:38
Matty
Oh, my God. Especially because you could tell that, like, they could not stabilize those wires for any way, shape or form. But, like, you know, it's. Do I love tweaked out vampire David Arquette. Also, apparently all vampires are the Joker. Like, there's just this very much like, we're coming to get you, Batman. About every single vampire come outside. Well, and it's even like the bookish girl becomes the. Cause she still has that stupid yellow jacket on. Also, Hilary Swank trying to give us Shakespeare in this, and she's fallen a little short, but it's like she's trying so hard.
43:16
Sam
Of all these girls, her best moment was when she got knocked out and she crossed her eyes. It was amazing.
43:22
Matty
Well, and then when she comes back and she's just babbling later and you're like, oh, okay, she's never recovering from this.
43:31
Case
Let's talk for a minute about Luke Perry. Just because, like, I really like the. I like Pike a lot in this. Like, he gives me Trent from Daria vibes up until the very end when he, like, shaves his sideburns down, even.
43:43
Matty
With the little black soul patch.
43:45
Case
Like, yeah, like that. That is the one character where I'm like, oh, yeah, that's perfectly a 90s, like, stoner, slacker type character. I. I do wonder if they were like, no, we can't have him, like, smoking drugs. Like, he. He'll have a flask, he'll be an alcoholic instead was the compromise there. Because that was definitely stoner vibes.
44:03
Matty
I'm shocked that he wasn't smoking. Like, I don't. I mean, this was also the point that, like, the anti tobacco thing had started in films. And so, like, but it would make sense that, like, those guys were like, yelling at the girls for being loud in the movie theater, but they would be smoking in the movie theater. Like, those kinds of things that it's like, also somehow, how are those two guys not the most, like, loud and disruptive in the movie theater? It's the four Valley Girls that are.
44:29
Sam
I mean, honestly, I kind of get it. I kind of get it.
44:33
Matty
I mean, yeah, I weren't gonna think.
44:35
Sam
I just. I actually love that David Arquette's character was like, we paid good money. Perry was like, we didn't. We did not pay anybody. It was a great moment.
44:48
Matty
Yeah. I mean, they understood. The two of them obviously understood the assignment. Their characters aren't as much of a reach by any means. They're. You know, this movie is very archetypal of the time in many ways. But, like, they're both so much fun. David Arquette always really commits. I enjoy him in film because he doesn't do much, but what he does pretty well. Like, it's the thing that he does. But like, Luke Perry's so lovable in this that, like, it made sense why he was the choice to get brought back as like, Archie's dad in Riverdale. Or like, why he's so iconically remembered now. But also, like, I understand why I like a chaos. Like a brunette chaos twink. Like, I get it because like, Pike's a brunette chaos twink at the.
45:30
Case
End of the day.
45:31
Matty
Like, I get it. Like, he's so. He's so handsome. I just, I. I'm a big Stan of Pike. But it's obvious that, like, Xander was supposed to fill some sort of pike sized hole. Yeah, but like, they were looking for like the nerdy, not as attractive version as pike, which Nicholas Brendan very handsome in different ways. But, you know, it's one of those things that they were trying to fill a hole in some way, shape or form. And that like, angel is a big, like buffed up, like inflate him with a little helium. And Angel's pike with muscles.
45:58
Case
But yeah, angel is like pike in the. In Act 3 and Xander is Pike in Act 1 and 2.
46:04
Matty
Oh, yeah, yeah, pretty much.
46:07
Case
It's actually like a little too perfect right there.
46:09
Matty
But like, he and James Marster Masters are very similar body type wise. So like, when Spike is introduced, it's like I, I see where they're still trying to like churn this idea of this character for him. But I thought he also had a really nice fit. I really like that he was very not predatory when it came to Buffy in the way that, like, when she's like, you can stay at the house. I didn't feel like he was like, he legitimately was gonna sleep downstairs or in the guest room and, like, not be a. Not be a fucking creep. And, like, there's something. You know, his eyes are this big. Like, they're giant. He has really good facial symmetry and had good hair for the time. So it was one of those things that, like, he looked unassuming.
46:50
Matty
He looked not dangerous after being, like, the dangerous guy.
46:54
Case
And I like his, like, coming awareness of everything. You know, at first he's. You know, at first, like, when. When. When he's confronted with Benny being like, wait, like, are you on something? And then they're like, I'm on nothing. And they cut to him floating and whatnot, and him just sort of, like, backing away from the whole situation to like, coming to understand that there are vampires and first wanting to flee. And then once he sort of starts to understand the rules of. Of it all, that all of a sudden gives him, like, the. The desire to work within those, to actually, like, fight them. Like, once he's, like, clear that they're. That it's not just something spooky, that it's, like, literally vampires. That's when he starts actually, like, making the. The tools for it all and having a moral obligation.
47:32
Case
Whereas before that, he. He wanted to flee.
47:34
Sam
He.
47:34
Case
He tells everyone that they, like, you know, he tells his boss at the. At the. The auto shop he works on, like, you should get out of town, too, because, like, something's weird. Like, I don't know what exactly, but something's weird. And I like that arc for him. Like, like, shift. Shiftless lay about who, like, throws the pocket change. He has to see if they can get a hot dog to split, which is such an interesting scene right there. Yeah, that's the Ricky legacy, right? Like, that she's the witch.
47:59
Sam
Yeah.
47:59
Matty
Yeah.
48:00
Case
And it's like two cups of coffee or a hot dog. And it's just like, yeah, we'll take the hot dog. I'll have the bunny hot dog. How much of a shame that we didn't get Buffy actually cutting the dog up. Like, they just, like, you get the sound and the react, and then he's got it, like, slashed open. And I'm guessing that was just a hard shot to get, right.
48:17
Matty
Oh, probably.
48:18
Case
Yeah.
48:18
Matty
Well, and it's a very fun, like, Buffy statement of. She's like, pull out your dick and I'm gonna cut it off.
48:25
Sam
Yeah.
48:26
Matty
Because he's obviously very, like, enraptured with her from early on. But, like, I also really appreciate that she's not a great person, like, when we first meet her. But I also like that she's not the most vapid of the girls. Like, she's not immediately a Cordelia. But also that, like, they. They're the popular girls, but, like, not many people, like, clearly like them, but,.
48:49
Sam
You know, yeah, they're ruling with iron fist, if they're ruling at all. They're just very clicky. Like, they're not. It doesn't seem like people really, like, enjoy them at all. I have to say, too, like, one of my favorite interactions in the movie, which is probably the best part of the movie for me as a girl, is when Luke Perry and Kristy Swanson or Buffy and pike are dancing. He says to her, you're not like other girls. And she goes, no, I am. And, like, there's like, a, like, lovely, like, reaffirming. Like, all girls are kind of special. No, I'm exactly like other girls. There's a very, like, strong, you know, supporting other women in that line. It is destroyed moments later in another scene with Lothos where he says, you're not like the others. And she said, maybe I'm not.
49:42
Sam
And I'm like, no, that's the opposite of what I wanted to hear. But it is a really nice moment. And it's like this moment where she's with pike and she's able to just kind of be herself. And Buffy has these moments in the script that are very lovely. And really, her. Her. Her character's lovely and complex, so she's not one. Like, she's not totally good. She's not totally bad, but she accepts her responsibility eventually, so it does have growth for her. And that's lovely.
50:14
Matty
Could not have put that better, Sam.
50:15
Case
Yeah, Sam, thank you for mentioning that one, because I. I do like that part because it is nice that we get a rebuttal to that classic, you're not like, the other girls trope. And it's. It's cool to do that here where, like, she's literally not in the sense that she is, like, a. You know, she's the Slayer. But, like. Like, the point is that, like, anyone could, like, anyone can engage in these things appropriately if they, like, take the steps to do so. And I think that's sort of why it's, like, nice that, like, the Slayer's power level is, like, a little bit lower than in the show.
50:41
Case
You know, Again, like, it's really only that she sort of has, like, a natural gift for all the vampire slaying stuff, but it's not, like, anything that she does is outside of the realm of what a human could do.
50:52
Sam
Yeah, it's like she's got, like, extra agility because she can catch the knife. Like, so she has got like. Like she's got this ability. Right. Because Merric throws a knife at her head and she catches it. So she's got speed and agility and kind of faster reflexes, but she's not, you know, show Buffy who's, like, throwing vampires through a wall.
51:14
Case
Right? Yeah. So it's nice that we do get that element of, like. No, like. Like, all girls contain multitudes and they can all be whatever they want to be. Sort of element there, which is. That part's good. I. I did like, that rebuttal there. And like, I like their relationship because then. Because she can be the strong one in the relationship but still want to be feminine.
51:31
Sam
Yeah. Because he actually, just before they start dancing, he asks if he can take the lead. And she said, no, I. Or she has. He said, I bet you're gonna want to lead. And she goes, no. You know, so it's like, yeah, like, I am stronger than you. I am the Slayer. But no, we can still do this. You can still take the lead. Like, I want you to take the lead. I thought it was kind of nice. She does also tell him to stay, though, when the vampires come. She's like, no, you stay here. I gotta go take care of them. This don't piss me off. Well.
52:00
Case
Well. So actually, like, rewatching that scene last night, it was the. The dance part. He's like, I bet you want to lead. And then she's. Then he doesn't want to lead either. And it sort of ends up where the two of them are just equals. And that part I thought was, like, kind of a nice element of this all where, you know, it. It is kind of saying that, like, some of, like, you can take the gender roles that you want. Like, it, like, enjoy the gender stuff that you care about and that. That you appreciate. But, like, you don't need to be.
52:27
Matty
Confined to it because even harder, dude, like, he. He's still a polar opposite from, like, the very masculine, like, bros that like Buffy's. Well, especially the. Like, the guy that clearly in any other movie would have been the werewolf, not the vampire.
52:43
Case
Sasha Jensen, who plays Grueler.
52:45
Matty
Yeah, Grueler. Yeah.
52:46
Case
Yeah. I want to talk to about him next, actually.
52:52
Matty
Which is also like, very reminiscent of, like, when they did beer back in season four. Like, it's these little moments that would be a little bit referential now. I Do have a weird question for you all. Do you like that this had a happy ending and ends on a high.
53:06
Case
Note, as opposed to the original script where it all gets burned down and.
53:11
Matty
Merric kills himself and doesn't die at the hand of Lothor?
53:14
Sam
I like that it had a happy ending because it feeds into the camp. Like, I want to see. I want, Like, I want to see them go off like, you know, a different movie where you. Where it's a little darker and where. Where the. Where it can get crazy and the shit can hit the fan and it's going like full cult classic, like, Let the Bodies Hit the floor. Fine. Yeah, you can do that. But I think. I think to keep it comedy, to keep it light, to keep it. To have the best death scene ever committed to cinematic history. Yeah, I think the happy ending fits that. And honestly, that's the only scene in this movie that actually matters. I know you guys, we've mentioned a lot of other stuff, but Paul Ribbon's death is the only one that matters.
54:03
Sam
And in order to keep that consistent, I think you need to have a happy ending. I think you do. I think that it's fine. I mean, could you have had more losses? Sure. But it's a first movie. It's a first movie, and I think that it's fine to have her kind of be triumphant here. You already have a loss. Merrick at least died. Right. So it's not like there were zero costs to this. The principal giving detention to everyone. Like, all the. All the people who came back who were technically seniors and vampires on the floor that had been staked, but he's going around just giving them detention. Hilarious. Loved it. Keep it. Absolutely.
54:45
Case
Yeah. I don't have a lot to say about Steven Root as the principal, but, like, beyond just that. Oh, he's. He's nice. Comic relief there. And like, Steven Root, who goes just like. Like, like comedy legend Steven Rood is in this movie as this, like, minor principal just handing out the tents and slips to vampires. It's amazing.
55:05
Matty
It's great.
55:05
Sam
I mean, it's great, you know, like, so I think, like, in. In the spirit of that, like, where does Paul's death. Where does Steven's principle fit in a story where everything gets burnt down and suicide happens at the end?
55:22
Case
I think as a standalone movie, this needed to have the happy ending for the type of story that they're kind of doing here. If this was a soft pilot to a TV show, the Fire Burning It Down I think works really well to set up the ostracized Buffy going into it. They did do the comic Buffy the Origin origins or whatever it was called, where they, like, basically just take the screenplay as Whedon wrote it and adapted it to a comic. And like, the. All those elements that they reference in the show that, like, we never saw in the movie, those are there, like the Merrick suicide, the everything getting burned down, etc, so, you know, it's fine if you know that it's going somewhere else.
55:58
Case
But if this was just going to be a movie about a Valley girl who's able to beat up vampires, despite what the audience is going to expect of the Valley girl, I think the happy ending is. It works really well here.
56:09
Sam
Year.
56:09
Matty
I completely agree with you all, like 1,000%. I think for this movie, the happy ending is sweet and it's kind of what we want. It's also. It's so referential to a John Hughes movie. It is referential of the movies that were produced in the years just before this. Like, it is. Yeah, it feels like. Because, like, in a world where, like, Heather's exists at this point already, it's one of those things that it seems to be tying up the end of the. Of this is the vestiges of that era. And we're moving into the mid-90s, into a different kind of storytelling for. For. For stories. So I think it. It seems appropriate to have a happy ending with this story.
56:48
Case
You just mentioned two things that I wasn't sure how it was going to work into my notes, which was the John Hughes stuff and also Heather's. So like.
56:54
Matty
Well, I mean, Heather's is, you know, in any other story, you could make JD a vampire in its buff, frankly, you know, it would be if Spike came before anybody else to find Buffy. You know, Spike shows up ahead of time and that's, you know, that's Veronica as Buffy's. You know, it feels very much. I mean, she fucking dies at the end because JD deserves to die because JD's a fucking psychopath. But also, like every teen love story or every teen movie since Breakfast Club and Pretty in Pink and Weird Science is always going to reference and trope off of a John Hughes movie. Like, he truly defined the new teen picture.
57:36
Case
Well, look at the letterman jackets they're all wearing. It's the same one that Emilio Estevez wears.
57:39
Matty
Absolutely. It's where we started using visual signifiers to do archetypal troping for a lot of characters. But it's also because the Breakfast Club is iconic and it is a fantastic Movie Pretty in Pink is a fantastic movie, but it's also why John Hughes, like even going into like making the Home Alone movies. Like the next year Home Alone 2 would be released. Home Alone 1 has already come out. Like, it's one of those things like he had a beautiful way of storytelling and understanding kind of the demographic of who he was working with. And it just worked. And so like we're. Everyone references John Hughes, whether they intentionally reference John Hughes because, you know, it's.
58:23
Matty
He took what wasn't working out of the like beach movies from the 60s to kind of reformat into like what was what made a good teen movie that everyone would watch. I'm sure he wasn't going well, they'll still be watching it 40 years later. Just because home video was not a huge thing yet. But like, you know, it's one of those things that it is. This is so self referential and like that the dance moment, it feels just like a great John Hughes moment. Because also at times there are moments where I feel like Kristy Swanson was probably given like Molly Ringwald as a point reference in many ways that like there are many of her acting choices, but also because she was just younger than Molly Ringwald and was in like she was in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.
59:07
Matty
She was in Pretty in Pink. You know, she was in those movies going up and through. Those were her first roles in like tiny things. So those were the actresses she was watching. There's, you know, there is. So it works in those ways. And so it makes sense that this would be really referential to that.
59:25
Sam
Well, and her throughline with her boyfriend is very similar to any through line with any of those teen movies. And in fact, her kind of through line going through his friend group, which we can circle back to, and then finding pike, this example of like, this very like toxic, unhealthy relationship which was very like sexually charged and very like, not that sex is bad, but a very sexually charged and kind of like not a lot of conversation happening between her and her boyfriend's friend, friend Andy constantly like hitting on her even though her boyfriend's right there.
01:00:03
Case
Well, it's not that it's sexually charged. It's that she's objectified. She's an object to be prized over. Like when she, when she flips the. What was that Andy that she flips in the hallway that time? And then it's like, hey, don't touch my thing or I'll pop you one. Like, you know, it's like him still having to, like, have this, like. Like, bro y. Alpha male. Yeah.
01:00:22
Sam
He has control over her even. You know when she comes out of the mall, like, in the very beginning after the movie, and she jumps over in the car, and she goes to, like, kiss him, andy's, like, staring at her butt, and he says out loud, can I borrow her? And he said, no, you're just gonna get her dirty.
01:00:40
Case
Right? It's not like.
01:00:42
Sam
It's not like, don't talk about my girlfriend that way. Like, that's disrespectful, respectful. Like, it's just kind of like, no, bro, you'll get it dirty. Like, you're gross. And I don't. I don't want the thing I use to be gross.
01:00:54
Case
Yeah. Really, really weird for Randall Battenkopf. I only know from this and then from the TV show Christie, where he plays a reverend.
01:01:03
Matty
Well, he was also in one of my favorite TV shows of all time, A Different World. After Debbie Allen, Tony for Bill Cosby. He played Kim Rhodes, white cousin who shows up at the historically black university and is, like, the one white face in the room for a lot of situations.
01:01:23
Case
Well, after Marisa Tomei leaves.
01:01:25
Matty
Oh, after Marisa Tomei leaves. Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, no, not cousin of Kimmer. It's cousin of Cree Summer's character, Freddie. Freddie.
01:01:32
Case
Yeah. I mean, he's done a lot of stuff. I just, like, I. I binged Christie as an adult. And then, like, we. We were watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. This was, like, 15 years ago watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and it's like, oh, wait, that's the same fucking guy.
01:01:43
Matty
And that' have not thought about Christie in years.
01:01:47
Case
And this is where we get, like, this whole movie. And I, like, is such a weird spot because, like, you mentioned that, like, Christy Swanson had done, like, John Hughes movies before it. Like, so Christie, like, was led by Kelly Martin, who was the voice of Daphne and a bunch of Scooby Doo stuff, and is often mistaken for Sarah Michelle Geller. And then Sarah Michelle Geller plays Daphne and a bunch of Scooby Doo stuff. So, like, all these, like, parts and whatnot are just, like, all interchangeable with each other.
01:02:11
Matty
Other.
01:02:12
Case
I mentioned that I wanted to briefly touch on Sasha Jensen as Grueler, who is, like, the first jock that disappears. And you don't actually see him die. You just see, like, Paul Ruben comes around, and you're like, oh, he's gonna die. Because, like, we. We. We as the audience know he's gonna die. And then he shows up again for the vampire. For the basketball scene with Ben Affleck, which is a. Sasha Griller is like, I don't know what he's been doing more recently, but in the 90s he was in a bunch of teen stuff. And the next year he was in Dazed and Confused. He. He's one of the, like, I think he's Benny in Days Confused or I'm blanking on the names at the moment. But like, he's like.
01:02:46
Case
Which is a movie I love, but like that's one of the definitive 90s, like teen comedies. Kind of the American graffiti of the 90s in a lot of ways, actually. A lot, A lot of ways. So like this whole world of like random, like people are just like, you know, again, this movie was just like right on the. Right on this like weird spot between like 80s material and 90s material. And you can kind of see the bleed over. I just wanted to mention that part because I like, I love Days of Confused. I with Mitch Vampayek, that we should start a show called Linkla Tours where we just discuss the works of Richard Linklater. And I said, we're not going to do it. It's a terrible idea, but I'm going to.
01:03:22
Case
And I typed out the pun and I was like, say it out loud and then giggle and then we're not going to do anything with it.
01:03:27
Matty
I mean, he also starred as Teen angel in the Disney show. Teen angel was part of the all new Mickey Mouse Club block because he was one of the Mickey Mouse Club kids. So. And he was in Halloween 4, the return of Michael Myers.
01:03:44
Case
One of the many returns of Michael.
01:03:45
Matty
Myers, one of the ones that I. Because I just finished watching all of the Halloween films up to the one that just came out and I was like, oh, we. Halloween four and Halloween five, they are something. They are something. But he's so good and really he kind of commands that scene. I again, he is a very werewolf like, Neanderthal quality to him. But I just. He was.
01:04:09
Case
So that scene felt a lot like Teen Wolf.
01:04:11
Matty
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. But it was also one of those moments where it's like, does no one see that he looks different? Does no one under. Does no one understand that something is happening?
01:04:22
Case
Well, the ref says something about it.
01:04:24
Sam
I think they do, but I think no one wants to go and do it because it's actually kind of funny because the ref goes to the coach and it's like, he can't do that. You need to remove him and then the coach turns around to his bench, and he's just like, is it. Does someone want to go over there and tell him he has to leave? So I think everyone knows that something's wrong, but they're afraid.
01:04:45
Matty
Yeah. Well, yeah. Also, can we talk about the coach for a second being the, like, the.
01:04:51
Case
Worst, the weirdest granola, like, level, like.
01:04:54
Matty
Yeah. In a terrible suit. Yeah. It's stupid, but, God, it's funny.
01:04:58
Sam
Like, at one point, he's got a play plan, and he has it upside down, and he's like, okay, so you see it. He's like, actually where the. Someone says, actually where the squares. And he's like, oh, right. And he turns it onto the other side. So he had it upside down.
01:05:13
Matty
And one time it just says peace and love and has an infinity symbol. And it's like, oh, I get. Okay. It's a commentary on California educators at the time. We get it. Okay.
01:05:23
Sam
This is funny.
01:05:24
Matty
I mean, the nice thing is kind of everybody in this, whether it all melds together. Well, they kind of get what they were trying to do. And for a movie that was made in, like, four and a half weeks, I think it works for me. Like, you know, it's one of those things that it's not. It's not awful. And I have. I had so much fun rewatching this, and I don't always remember having fun watching this, but, like, this time, I really, like. I put down my switch, and I was like, oh, no. I'm actually really enjoying this. This film.
01:05:54
Case
Yeah. Like, the movie works really well divorced from the TV show. Like, if you really separate that, I think you've got a pretty solid just, like, romp about this all. Like I said, I think it just came out at the wrong time. It had, like, a little bit of the wrong aesthetic for when it came out. And, you know, it's like, not everyone is in the same movie. You know, like, we talked about a lotos a bit.
01:06:14
Matty
Let's talk about.
01:06:14
Case
We haven't really talked about Peewee Herman,.
01:06:19
Sam
Except all I've done is talk about him, and he's been barred every moment.
01:06:24
Matty
I honestly would argue that Paul Reuben should have played lothos. Like, honestly, a Paul Reuben's chaotic lothos would have been chef's kiss.
01:06:35
Sam
I agree with you. But also the fact that he's, like, Lotho's personal assistant, frustrated with him all of the time is so funny to me that every time he's just like, but, sir, I don't think we should. Fine. Like, he just kind of, like, it's just like this very frustrated personal assistant. And I kind of love it.
01:07:00
Matty
It's also, like, he brings masterful performance to whatever he does. Like, there's so much to him outside of Pee Wee, and so many people don't know that, but, like, it's just. It's so good he is Chef's. Cause I kind of. I kind of wish he could have gotten his friend Cassandra Peterson in this. Like. Cause they always do stuff together a lot.
01:07:20
Case
Lot.
01:07:20
Matty
Because they were in Groundlings together. And I would have loved to seen an, like, a Cassandra Peterson, like, Vampire Queen appearance in this as well. But, like, he's just. He's so good, and he sets the. I think he's what keeps the movie propelling forward in a way that if it wasn't someone who was having so much fun, like, because he's giving new meaning to chewing the. Out of the scenery.
01:07:45
Sam
Like, I agree with you. One of the best scenes that Rutger Hauer is in is the scene where he's yelling at Pee Wee's character for losing his arm to a mere human. Because he's just like, you've been alive, and I forgot the number. He's like, but you've been alive for 200 years and you're doing this. And he's just like. You know, just kind of, like, sheepishly like. But at the end, kind of just snarls at him. I was like, this is so cute. Like, I kind of wish there was more them arguing like an odd couple living in that cave, going over things.
01:08:20
Case
Yeah.
01:08:21
Sam
Maybe that's the movie. I don't forget about Buffy. I just watch.
01:08:25
Case
Well, and like, Rubens, when he shows up, he is actually the one exception to what I was saying, which is that he is wearing leather. And we get that when his arm goes away or goes away. When his arm gets ripped off.
01:08:37
Sam
When his arm goes away on vacation, it went to Maui.
01:08:42
Case
Like, and he, like, approaches and went on. He's like, you ruined my new jacket. Kill him a lot. I like that line. That delivery is really good.
01:08:51
Matty
So good. It's. I. I just so appreciate that line.
01:08:54
Case
But he's also got the right look for the vampire in, like.
01:08:58
Sam
Yeah.
01:08:58
Case
I mean, sure, like, there might be some issues with his wig and so forth, but, like. Like, he actually is wearing a leather jacket. He looks like a 90s vampire in the. In the right ways. When he rolls around on the carousel that first time.
01:09:09
Matty
And.
01:09:09
Case
And we. We see him and he, like. And he, like, grins with his, like, big fangs and whatnot like that's a perfect introduction. Like we as an audience are like, that's a vampire. We know how the scene's going to go. Like, it was a perfect selling for how the vampires should have been across the board.
01:09:26
Sam
Yeah. And his scene also, you know, when Luke Perry is trying to intervene as Kristy Swanson as being hypnotized by Lothos and you know, Pee Wee Herman. Call him Paul. Sorry. Paul steps in and he kind of like confronts Luke and he's like, do you remember me? And he says like, I do. And the way that he said it, I was like, oh, be careful. Like, I was just like, this is. Yeah, that's a scary vampire. Like funny wig and all that man is nature's way of saying, don't touch. In fact, that wig should give it away.
01:10:03
Matty
Well, I actually think the wig is great for the character especially because we see him make medieval period at one point as well. And he's just like dressed the same except it's like a Shakespeare puff sleeve. And I was like, I'm not mad at this. I think this is perfect. Like, like, I think there was. There was obviously like such a good forethought with one character that just did not translate to the. No, I don't know if it was Rudger Hauer had a lot of say in. In what the character ended up looking like or something. But yeah, it's Paul Rubin's got it. Now I'm gonna posit one thing that I think is missing from this now. It's the. I know you all said you like how the vampires die in this.
01:10:38
Matty
I impartial to the dusting also because it's then like when the police show up, they were like, well, wait, what actually happened?
01:10:45
Case
Because then there's just dead bodies everywhere. Right.
01:10:47
Matty
Well, and some of them have wooden stakes. But what I would have loved is like a post credit scene where they go and find what's his name, Amelin's body and they pull the stake out of him and then he wakes up and goes, surprise. And like that's just the end of the movie. Well, because it's one of those things. It's like, oh, because like it makes sense then. Oh, we have to burn everything down because the vampires, then their bodies have to be burned. It's even like the one thing they did in Twilight that I went. It all makes sense. Burn the bodies, you know, because it's. It is a demon. It's going to reanimate the bot. Like it's one of those things that It's.
01:11:20
Matty
That would have been great because again, this is like in the time where we're playing with like movies having sequels, it had been one of those things that was like, okay, well what if literally you remove the stake and that's why they have to do the like double push. The, like hit and then the push it in. And then if it's removed somehow, it like they repair themselves or. Or something. I would. That would have just been fun also because I was like, give me another movie with that character. Because I also. I had the. The Just because the thought. Because I've. We've. We've talked Batman with Two Face and Joker and. Or Riddler in it before. I was like, why is Paul Rubens never played the Riddler? Like, why I was gonna say Joker.
01:12:02
Matty
And then I was like, no, it takes a little more craft and cleverness to play the riddler.
01:12:05
Case
And that seems 80s era Paul Reubens, like made up like Pee Wee Herman, but with the suit being green with black question marks on it or vice versa. Would be just to die for everything.
01:12:16
Matty
It would be everything. Yeah, it would be.
01:12:21
Sam
You are preaching to a chorus. We are generally playing with everything you're saying. Conductor lead, we're in here with you. We're like, well, get my time machine.
01:12:32
Matty
Because in that situation, I know she didn't exist yet. But then I was like, give me Cassandra Peterson's like as Poison Ivy or something like, give me that. Give me that Batman Rogues Gallery film. Who knew we would get to Buffy or Batman via Buffy. But you know, Bats, it's there, it's fine. But you know, it's. I wish the prosthetic application had been a little better. Cause I actually loved. I liked the, like the weird teeth that makes your mouth puff out a little. And then the ears.
01:13:03
Case
I like the ears are great. I love those.
01:13:05
Matty
I really like the ears. And you know. Cause it would be a thing where they would go full facial prosthetic for the TV show. But I even think like graying them out with the idea that, like, the body is dying. It's not super alive, but it's being kept together by this deep demon. Which they mention in passing. I think is really interesting that they went, oh, yeah, there's a demon anyway. Which we would elaborate on way more in the TV show or other, you know, different versions of what vampires actually are. But it is one of those things that, like, for what they did. And again with the. You can tell there was a limited production budget there because they. This. They made this movie with $7 million.
01:13:43
Matty
Like, in the long run, to do four weeks of shooting in LA for 7 million, like, that seems crazy. Even though they only used four or five locations ultimately. Apparently, yeah, there.
01:13:56
Case
There are a few times where they emphasize that it's LA with like the fake newscasts. And those are the spots where I'm like, yeah, it is la. It's not just like Southern California, but, like, right. Explicitly la.
01:14:05
Matty
Well. And they shot in la, like downtown LA for they.
01:14:08
Case
But they don't get. Because they only have so many locations that they use. Like, there are spots where it just doesn't. Like, it just feels. It doesn't feel. You don't get some of like the LA baggage that would have been maybe kind of nice to play with, like vampires showing up in Hollywood.
01:14:24
Matty
Well, and that idea, like, they didn't. The. The one last thing that I'll say they didn't really develop for us is the scale of the stakes. Pardon the pun. 1. The stakes are so unwieldy and unmanageably large in this. In this version of it, like the John Giant fucking doorstopper stick. But no, like, it's like, great. This is. So why hasn't Lothos literally taken over the world before? Are you seeing that there are cities across the world that are all overrun by vampires? Because Lothos killed the Slayer in that timeline. Like, it's. Is the Slayer immediately going to be reborn? Like, if. If this kind of thing is going back and forth or what happens now that the Slayer is alive in Lothos is dead. I'm confused.
01:15:07
Matty
Is he just going to be reborn and has to be turned back into a vampire Eye Confusion. But I think it's just those moments of, like this I. I would have liked. Because even if this was a suburb of LA, understanding that there, you know, the 50 sprawling miles of suburbs of LA, what are the stakes of a true vampire? O, like overtake. Like vampires overtaking la? Because they even managed to do that in angel quite often to still give it an LA SCope while dealing with like, oh, a portal to hell's opening again. And they didn't have the aspects of the Hellmouth yet. And like, knowing LA is a Hellmouth, but it's like, you know, there.
01:15:43
Matty
That's the one thing is it's like, oh, so she's probably never going to deal with this again and she's never going to have to, like, fight vampires because they all gone. They're not going to come look for her anymore because Lothos is like, siring them all. So it's like, that idea. That's the thing I'm not understanding really what the story is.
01:15:59
Case
This kind of goes back to my rules thing. Like, this is the thing that, like, outside of, like, all the vampire lore of, like, what. What things actually work on them, what is Lothos's deal? And what is the. What is the Watcher and the Slayers deal specifically in this movie, which is introducing all three of these characters, like, Lothos. Like, is he trying to take over the world? Like, why. Why. Why does Merrick have these restrictions of, like, if he steps in, like, there's an issue. If he dies, is that issue then, like, the Slayer is left without guidance and maybe he isn't reborn long. Like, if he inc. Inter. Intervenes, maybe he is not reborn in time for the next Slayer or something like that. Like, what is Lothos's deal? Why is he being like, it.
01:16:36
Case
It seems very much like the Master in season one, where they're, like, empowering him at the start of this movie. So why does that work that way? Does the Slayer only work up to a certain point? Is the Slayer's death, like, related to it? Like, Lothos is. Is de. Powered, but, like, still alive or something like that. Like, it's how he maintains his eternal life or something. You know, like some. Some cycle, like an Odin sleep type thing. Like, that's. That's the exact question where, like, what is Lothos trying to do now versus in the Dark Ages?
01:17:05
Sam
Yeah. Well, I mean, it's also interesting because, like, Luke Perry's character actually, like, he does try to run away. And when he comes back and he's talking to Buffy, he says, well, I thought about running away, but then I realized it's everywhere. So, like, there is a reference to this idea that, like, this is not the only vampire enclave. That, like, there is no escape for this. So he might as well, like, take a stand and, like, fight here. Like, you know, live where he is. But again, like you said, there's no actual, like, rules for this universe or what is happening or what the stakes are or why, like, again, again, why would Lothos wait? Why does hesitate to kill her? You know, you have her in your thrall. She's. She's. You know, she's there.
01:17:57
Sam
Technically, Maric should be no actual, like, real threat to you. He didn't seem like much of a threat. In fact, they seemed to have a conversation. And when Donald Sutherland died, he. When Merrick dies, he says, you know, play your game your way. Don't play our Game, as if this is like an eternal dance between him and Lothos and the Slayer. It just continues to happen over and over again. And I was like, is this Highlander? Like, is Buffy Highlander?
01:18:29
Matty
Well, but also, if you think about it, if he is always killing the Slayer and even the first lines of the film are into every generation, which would continue to be the mantra of the show. It's what introduced the first, like, half of season one was that, like, Giles narrating into every generation that is a Slayer she's born to fight the blah, blah, blah. But in theory, if he is constantly killing the Slayer through time, he's doing this every 18 years. Like, in theory, even if he has to wait 20 years for a slayer to be born or whatever. But, like, technically, shouldn't then the Slayer be able to be, like, awoken into a family like, that just conceived a child. So it's going to be more born. So then literally it's going to happen again in 16 years, like 17 years.
01:19:16
Matty
So Avatar, literally Avatar, yeah, literally. It's one of those things that I'm just going. I think it's another situation where it's like, oh, no. The more we talk about it's going to start. We're going to start pulling a thread. Right? But I think it's because setting the parameters of your world is so important. And, you know, again, I'm wondering if there are scenes that were cut of, like, pike getting to LA and then being, like, having the shit knocked out of him by a vampire in, like, downtown LA while he's trying to le. Like, his van breaks down again or whatever. That's why he's like, you know, it's everywhere, but it's also. It's everywhere. Does that just mean. Is there evil everywhere?
01:19:54
Matty
Like, he's running away from something, but it is thematically always going to follow him, whether it's, like, the establishment or it's literal vampires or this, that or the other.
01:20:05
Sam
Yeah. Who knows? The movie never told us.
01:20:08
Case
Yeah, I think you're right, though. If we start pulling on these threads, it's going to unravel. So why don't we take a break, shout out some of the great shows on our network, and then when we come back, let's see if we can sew this thing back together.
01:20:27
Matty
Nostalgia is one of the strongest forces in the human psyche and is responsible for the continued existence of some of our favorite fandoms. From the Minds behind the Dolep In Dreams, Podcast and Isolation Cast Voices from Quarantine Saturday Morning Confidential takes you on a deep dive into the properties that helped influence the artists and creators of today. So whether you are a Goonie, a gym girl, a digidestined, or you just want to return to Oz, new episodes release on Fridays, BI weekly starting January 1st of 2021. And join us on the Wednesdays after the main show for the Serial Killer Radio Hour, where we sit down with the people responsible for the toys, shows, and fandoms that you love. Now, you can find Saturday morning confidential@ certainpov.com smcpod or on your favorite podcast platforms.
01:21:23
Matty
So don't forget to tune in for another deep dive into the files of Saturday Morning Confidential.
01:21:34
Case
And we're back. All right, guys, so we've all agreed that we generally like this movie, that there's, like, little pieces and then there's the shadow of the show, which, you know, it means a lot to all of us. You know, it was a. It was a wonderful thing when it came out. It was a show I rewatched and revisited a ton in my 20s. But, you know, that's its own product. So. So let's talk about this movie and how it could have been more successful because it was critically panned, and the fact that it was so cheap is the only reason why it wasn't, like, a total bomb. And. But that's. That's a pretty low bar right there. So, yeah, I'm not allowed to go first. So, Matty, you are the guest.
01:22:18
Case
Are you going to go first or is Sam going to go first?
01:22:21
Matty
I think Sam can go first if she would like to.
01:22:25
Sam
Sure, sure. I can go first. I realize that this has actually become a fun game of is Sam going to have to go first? And I actually very much enjoy it. Every time it comes up and he says that, I'm like, what will the guest pick? Oh, no. Every time. So I really like this movie a lot. And it's actually, this movie is actually the reason my family watched the show because it was one of my most mom's favorite movies. I know I've talked about my mom a lot on this podcast. She loves movies like this, and she loved this movie. And at the time, we did kind of like, we would watch, like, TV as a family, and each family member could pick a show. And Buffy was my mom's show because of this movie. And that's why I ended up watching Buffy.
01:23:14
Sam
Having said that, yeah, there are some things up front, I think, in the first half of the film that could be cleaned up a Little like in terms of. Of the past lives and kind of making it a little more streamlined. Like, you know, I'm doing this rewatch as a person who has watched seven seasons of Buffy and has also seen this movie before. And so as were talking, I was just like, I wonder how much of seeing that stuff I took for granted of knowledge that I already have. Because had I come into this with no knowledge, would I be able to follow it? Like, yes. It's. It's Kristy Swanson's face. And so you kind of get that it is her in past lives. I don't think that's necessarily bad, especially because they don't give a lot of exposition.
01:23:59
Sam
And the fact that she's having these dreams and she's living inside of those things, I think that's fine. But I think I would have liked that to be a little more fleshed out. And I would have liked, especially for Lothos motivation and his connection to the Slayer to be fleshed out. Whether that is. And I'm kind of angling towards wanting to kind of wait to the right moment that the Slayer, like, maybe like a full moon or, I don't know, something in terms of that. Where basically preying upon the Slayer or defeating the Slayer or drinking of her blood would make him more powerful. Kind of bring in some type of the occult.
01:24:43
Sam
That way you can, like, correspond the dance with that night, you know, like, the 23rd of May is the night that if you drink the Slayer's power, you're, you know, blood. You're imbued with, like, a crazy power. Because that gives me also, like, the whole, like, high school feeling that we're get the John Hughes movie we're getting. Right, because there's a deadline. There's a deadline for the vampires. There's a deadline for Buffy, who's just trying to figure out how to hold it all together with her new responsibilities and extracurriculars and still throw the perfect dance. And I think that's. I think that's the thing that I would fix the most. And I would lean into the camp. I would just let it. I would let it go camp. I would. I would let her be up top, a little more Valley girl.
01:25:31
Sam
Like, I think that she is. But I feel like they don't lean into it quite enough. Like, I want a little more. And I would just, yeah, have everyone be in the same movie, fix some of the costumes and. And kind of. But I think that this movie is a treasure. I think that it's. I Think it's lovely. And I do miss the dusting, Maddie, but. But for the purposes of their lack of ability to have dusting, I say it's okay to let the bodies hit the floor, but let's do an end scene where the cops are really confused and the principal's trying to explain it because I love him. So let's throw him back into it and just be like, no, they're vandals. They came here. They were attacking people. This is self defense. I've given them all detention. It's fine.
01:26:17
Sam
You know, kind of have like, that kind of moment and then, yeah, maybe like, Paul Rubens. I do want him to die and then come back to life because. Because I would like a sequel with him taking over the very frustrated assistant, taking over for Lothos and doing what he could not do and getting that Garshtarn slayer. That's my fix. Cause I love this movie.
01:26:43
Matty
I love that. I would also add, maybe give him Benny and the guy as his bumbling assistants. Give me both of these.
01:26:52
Sam
Oh, yeah, Just. Maybe even have, like. Just have like, Pee Wee Herman kind of just be like, you can't get good help these days. You know, like. Like a Bebop Rocksteady kind of thing.
01:27:06
Matty
That'd be so good. I would love that.
01:27:10
Case
Now I'm just picturing, like, can you imagine if he. At the end, it, like, sets up the lair, but it's like a goth version of Pee Wee's playhouse and, like, amazing. He, like, strolls in, like, all Pee Wee style in his vampire attire and, like, the Cheers chair, like, opens its mouth and it's like, all big giant fangs.
01:27:28
Sam
It'd be amazing. Incredible.
01:27:31
Matty
Or I would love if he beheads Lothor and just keeps it in a. Like a box and just says, hi, Lothor. Lothos. I keep saying Lothor, but it's Lothos. Yeah.
01:27:44
Case
God, I hate you.
01:27:48
Matty
That. That's great, though, like. Because, like, we've all talked that, like, the bones of this is actually not the problem of the movie.
01:27:56
Sam
It's. It's the details. It's the details. And it's mostly a lot of movies that fail, for me personally are the movies that fail to really define the villain when you have a very two dimensional, plastic, you know, kind of, like, villain without motivation. And. And it's just very hard to get motivated to, like, the stakes go nowhere, you know? Like, it. It's so. Because Lothos kind of lives in this weird, cartoony caricature of Dracula, like, seductive Dracula, but without any kind of real Fangs. Oh my God, guys. Without any real teeth and without any real objective other than like, let's play a violin subject subductively during a high school party. I don't get it. It's all very funny, but it's not. That would take the movie to another level, I think.
01:28:58
Matty
I, I agree. Mine is very similar where I. Why, why only give us 30 seconds of the past? Like, like every time they have an opportunity, every time she goes to sleep because they put her in bed several times. Like they take us to the end of Buffy's day, we watch her get into bed so they lose these opportunities. So honestly, for me, I would start at the top and give us about five to ten minutes of that. Like the original. But like go back to a Celt story, go back to an early Romanian story and make both Merrick and Lothos brothers and have some sort of clericness about them. Have some sort of tie to spirituality, religion. And have the Slayer girl either be an assistant. She is a. She's a niece. She is somehow familially.
01:29:47
Matty
And then there's something where they are all then tied to this magical spiritual, literally circle of time, like wheel of time moment. And give us those. No, I'm glad because at one point Merrick goes and the story slave girl and I go, I'm glad we didn't see that one.
01:30:06
Case
Yeah, I mean, I know in Virginia they were like very clear, like, oh,.
01:30:10
Matty
We're talking about very clearly. And I went, oh, no, thank goodness we didn't get that. But maybe it got shot and they panned it because thank the Lord.
01:30:20
Case
But it's those things good illusion to drop. Not a thing I need to see.
01:30:23
Matty
And also, again, I don't mind keeping Christy Swanson as the Slayer every time and keeping Donaldson Sutherland as the Watcher every time. But I do, I think I agree that like, give us a blood moon. Give us something that Lothos is working towards to give us the scope. And like, why they need to turn as many teenagers into vampires as they can. Like there is a thing that they're just kind of doing it to do it. But like, is it a blood moon? I just watched turning red. So like blood moon is on my mind. But. But yeah, like, is it like a blood moon? Is there some supernatural eclipse, something? Well, like even in like an eclipse where there are going to be hours of daylight that are blocked out by the sun.
01:31:06
Matty
And so, yeah, and then we see this really ridiculous looking Lothos the whole time and then he arises and is an Actual, like, legend style demon, like, vampire. Like, so we see, like, the ancientness of him. Because I know he says Amelin is 1200 years old at one point. They've lived, you know, a literal millennia. Like, there is a thing about that for those. And so I'm guessing that Lothos is older. So, like, if we are taking it back to a, like, dawn of time, you know, this is why it made sense in the show to be a literal, like, African girl from the Kirtle. The Fertile Crescent was the first Slayer. Like, though that made so much sense that it's like. Or referencing how the Slayer became the Slayer. Those things and that's what ties them together.
01:31:50
Matty
Or like, is the demon that is in Lothos the same demon that is given the Slayer her ability, like, that moment to make them again? I hate referencing Harry Potter, but, like, is it the phoenix feather? The two phoenix feathers from the same phoenix is the thing that ties them and why they have to be in this struggle? But, you know, it's those. Cause those. Otherwise the camp is there for me. I think I would love it. I still would argue that. That burning it down would be really funny to have the president, the principal, then being like, you see what had happened was. And so with no bodies there. They all sound fucking crazy. And so he's literally on like, the LA news. The. The LA news explaining that they were like vampire monster beings and they had to, like, destroy them.
01:32:43
Matty
And students died and. And. And so just kind of watch him unravel. But I think if they just kind of put that actor in front of the camera and said, go. It could have been so good because he's such a prolific comedian. So just those little things that I would have tweaked, I also willingly would have set up a sequel because this is a world that, like, even without the TV show, this is a really interesting world to me. I think it's interesting to then set up the structure of. You know, there's always. In any sort of vampire lore, the more we learn about the different classes of vampires and kind of the different thing we learn, there's a hierarchy and there's older vampires, there's newer vampires in these things. And like, what does it mean if Lothos is no longer in play?
01:33:22
Matty
What does that mean? Are there. Are there werewolves in la? Like, is that. You know, is there a thing. Buffy goes to New York for college and she finds vampires there, and then Amelyn shows up. Like, it's one of those things that. It's like, oh, fuck, you know, this is a world where like just little tweaks to the script would have been really nice. I also would have taken out all of the cramps, all of the like, oh, use your woman or use your womanness as a thing. And I would have made Merrick less creepy. I would have also made him younger. I, I think I understand having. It's the same thing as when you pull the classic Van Helsing into Dracula stories and having him be a 60 year old man that's kind of shambling around to be a vampire hunter.
01:34:04
Matty
I don't enjoy those stories because I think it somehow castrates the character. So I would have liked to see, not to be ageist, but like seeing that like Merrick also maybe Maric, because he's also magic, does not age the same way that everyone else does because he's being reborn. Or maybe Maric just hits this point and this is the first time Maric is dying. Like it's a thing where like Merrick and Lothos both have to die in order for the cycle to start stop. But just because that cycle stops does not mean that it's stopping the cycle of all evil. So those are just the little tweaks that like I would make personally definitely.
01:34:41
Sam
Cosine on that lack of crap cramp thing. I had blocked it out during my pitch, so it didn't even.
01:34:49
Matty
Oh yeah, absolutely. I would have also loved an evil female character as well. That also, that wasn't just the like slutty vampire girls at the actual like prom. I would have liked to seen maybe another acolyte, some just something in there or have Lothos be a female character instead of a male character. I think it could have also added a really interesting twist to this in a way, but also not like demonizing women. I think that's a fine line that we can't really trust Jaws or these older men on this picture. So, you know, it's one of those things that I think keeping most of the bones of this true. But I definitely like that she and pike end up together with at the end. I, I also would love to see more of their continuity.
01:35:29
Matty
Cause also the idea of them becoming a little bit of an April o', Neill, Casey Jones kind of pairing is really cool for me. And so that's. Again, I want to see more of a lot of these characters. And so I think that exhibits good writing in the end and good development that we want to see more of even if it's just those three characters. I would really like to See that or have amulet. Okay, one more thing. I would have liked to seen the Hilary Swank character get bit, but just disappear. We don't see her show back up, and then she show up like Harmony as a vampire in the second one. And so it's one of those things that Buffy's like, what? No, you literally were such an asshole to me in life.
01:36:11
Matty
And now she's literally given her Those powers over Buffy. Could have led to a really interesting story for a second one. So a lot of mine is in contingent upon a second and third film, I think would because in, like, for some reason, I love the idea of New York for a second film, in London for a third one. And play with the idea of werewolves in London for a third film.
01:36:30
Case
Yeah, I mean, these are all really similar to, like, what I would kind of bring to this all because, like, again, we're all. We all just generally like this movie pretty well. And it's like, well, what. What areas could it refine? You know? Lothos Lothas is one of the sticking points. Like, the fact that we don't really understand what he's trying to do and, like, what the nature of his relationship with past slayers are and just comes off as a creepy old man is sort of like the thing that sort of stands out about this whole thing. So my thought would be, like, it'd be really nice if we had this sort of cycle of, like.
01:37:00
Case
My thought is that if Lothos actually needed to drink the Slayer's blood to continue to live, like, he was in a particularly, like, weird state of undeath, like, where. Where his covens are maintained by him. Like, do the whole, like, the. The. The sire. If the sire dies, everyone else dies kind. And so that they are incentivized to keep him alive. Because throughout the movie up until we get to the end, they are bringing victims to Lothos to drink. And so an idea of like, okay, well, but then a mature slayer like that. Like, that is the blood that allows him to perpetuate his life cycle that has already been kind of damaged. Like. Like Lotho should have, like, some kind of injury or something. Like a slayer almost killed him.
01:37:40
Case
And that drinking of slayer blood is the only thing that really allows him to, like, reinvigorate himself each time. Time. So that you can it. You know, Again, it's kind of like the Master in season one of Buffy, but, like, play with it so that there is, like, a logical cycle here about, like, why they exist, like, why Loathas. Like, like, waxes and Wanes in power throughout this all, you know, saying blood moon is good. I was looking up, like, well, I guess it could be like, the vernal equinox, but that's like. That's too regular. But you could get some sort of, like, metaphor about, like, when the sun starts to be out longer or something to that effect. But, like, yeah, like some kind of, like. Like regular cycle.
01:38:14
Case
Or if it's just that the Slayer has to come of age, like, if it's the Slayer's birthday, literally is like, one of the things that become, like, they. They go from being, like, targeted just kind of casually, to being, like, targeted very directly. Like, oh, on the 18th birthday, the slayer's blood will allow Lothos to live for another, you know, three decades or whatever. However they want to define that kind of cycle. Right there. I think that particular stake is the thing that would be really impactful here, and it would give us a chance to explain, like, Lothos's drive. What is Merrick's relationship to that? You could say that Merrick, you know, whatever balance of good and evil. If you don't want to say angel, or if you don't want to, like, not angel the character, but, like, angel as opposed to a demon.
01:38:54
Case
Like, if you want, like, whatever sort of heavenly force, whatever thing is going on, like, set up that sort of juxtaposition there. And, like, not all vampires are sired by Lothos, but Lothos is a particularly powerful one that continues to function and has resisted vampire or resisted slayers more. More readily than a lot of other vampire have. Like, so that you kind of like, create the stake of, like, no. Yeah, like, slayers are really good at killing vampires in general, but Lothos is particularly good at killing slayers. And, like, that's part of that cycle there. And then you can also sort of address a question that I had lingering the whole time, which was in this movie, it looks like everyone who gets bitten turns into a vampire. So what happened to all the previous slayers? And if they just do the.
01:39:35
Case
They just explain the thing they say in the show, which is that, like, no, you have to do the whole, like, cross sucking thing. And that, like, if you drain them totally dry, like, they'll die. And that's why they never have a slayer there, because Lothos has to drink the Slayer dry every time. And that's the only way that Lothos is going to continue to exist. And if Lothos dies, all these other vampires die. And then maybe you can set up that, like, Amelin is not one of Lothos's entities. Like maybe it's. It's Lothos's brother or something. Or like another, like sired by the same, like in the same coven. And like is the only person that Lothos trusts while not being able to. Whatever, you know, explain that part.
01:40:12
Case
And then one of the reasons why Lothis can be established to be so deadly is that he is so mesmerizing, that his presence is so engrossing, and that his is naturally hypnotic in a way that other vampires are not. And that's why he's so good at killing slayers, because like everyone who sees him when he's at his strength, like not maybe at the first point in the movie, but like once he's drinking, like once he has drunk of enough young people or something like that, where his vitality itself allows him to just like override a person's ability to. To defend themselves. And that's why he's so like, so dangerous to slayers, because when he's in his prime, you can't really face him off. And like, Buffy being able to resist at the end should be a big detail.
01:40:51
Case
So that's like my big part there. And then. Yeah, more leather. Have them have them dress in ways that look cool. Like that's like the. The vampires who are just students are like fine. But like all of the vampires just need to look really fucking cool and like really 90s cool. And I think that we're not getting that right here. Like, if this looked, if this had kind of a similar like, design aesthetic to Bram Stoker's, which admittedly came out the same year. So I don't know how much you'd be able to like really like figure out what, like what Coppola was doing for that one. But like, you know, we bring up Lost Boys, you know, have some like, of those creepy elements, but like have it be creepy in a sexy way. Like, because the vampires in this movie are not sexy.
01:41:32
Case
And Lothos kind of should be a sexy vampire for him to do all the things he does. And it's Rutger Hauer who can be a sexy vampire if he wants to. There's just not playing him that way. So, like, you know, take the take the cloak. Cloak's great, but like have everything else like just like, just reek of sex appeal. And it's like kind of like off putting European kind of way that would like make everyone be like a little uncomfortable to be in the room with him. Because you're pretty sure that at some point his mouth is going to be on you, regardless of how that mouth is on you.
01:42:00
Matty
Well, it's because right now he looks like he's a Rex Manning cosplayer. Like, frankly, even though that movie wasn't out here yet. But,.
01:42:08
Sam
I mean, I. I hear you, but I kind of like that they're sexless, weird, awkward vampires, but. Go on.
01:42:15
Case
Well, but. But Lothos does come off as a sexy vampire in terms of, like, what they're trying to do. It's just he's not designed appropriately like a sexy vampire. So, like, he's. He. Like, she gets in bed with him. There's all these, like, creepy moments of. That he's. Like, she's mesmerized by him. It's all the. The classic kind of like, oh, I've. I've hypnotized this woman and she will be my bride now kind of stuff. But it's not actually being. Being sold by his dialogue, by the actual costume design for him, by the makeup for him. He just doesn't come across that way. And I don't need the other vampires to be sexy, but Lothos kind of should be, and in that predatory way, because, like, he already is skeevy in this movie.
01:42:52
Case
Like, he's already got, like, weirdly lusting after a high school girl, but. So let's make it a. Let's make that more of an understood threat.
01:43:00
Sam
I understand. I just also love the idea of, like, a vampire who's just, like, really, like, fashion challenged, who's just stuck in, like, a particular style that has nothing to do. Your. Your pitch is good and it's right, but I just personally just feel like it'd be really great for someone to be like, no, it comes back around again. It's fine. I'm just gonna wear these bell bottoms. Go on. I'm sorry.
01:43:22
Case
Well, you know, it's funny. So you mentioned that when I was reading up on this movie, someone called out that in the first episode of the show, when. When Buffy spots a person by having, like, they're. They're stuck in a dated look, they. That's supposed to be a callback to my keen fashion sense. Like, that's how she's able to identify vampires. And I think that's cool. But in this movie, you couldn't do that because most of the vampires are her contemporaries that have just been transformed so that, like, you lose that element by having. By way of it having, you know, by. By being effectively a plague that hits their community directly as opposed to an outside force coming in So I did.
01:43:56
Matty
Have another thought of also something. Something I would tweak a little bit at the end. I would save Maric's death until the big battle with Lothos. I would have Lothos bite Buffy, Merrick come from behind and kill him. Lothos turning around, like, to try to kill him. Lothos then, like, being interrupted or drops. Buffy kills Merrick and then turns around, and then Buffy is there to go. And that kind of be. So then in those moments after she realizes she's triumphant, she then turns around that Merrick is literally dead. So that she does have that support going into that battle, though I don't know how.
01:44:36
Case
But then, I mean, the Merrick death where it happens is like the dark night of the soul kind of moment in your screenplay structure. So it's hard to say when exactly it should occur. But that would be a good driving force for her to break the. The. Her fascination with Lothos because, like, the. The way it happens in the movie where it's like, oh, the music just stops. And that's sort of like, oh, it's like this foretelling kind of component, like, doesn't really work in terms of selling that part of it. Like some. Something kind of needs to be more. Forcing her out of whatever trance. But also we need to see more of the trance at that point.
01:45:08
Matty
Well, also, like, maybe this idea that the power that Lothos is gaining, actually Buffy then keeps. And no slayer has ever gotten to keep that power. So she literally, I don't want to say like, ascends or transcends into something else, but we see this moment of like, maybe that's when her, like, super strength unlocks. Maybe that is something that she suddenly feels a difference. And she, like, it's just a moment of just. We can tell that she feels a little different. But, like, it then could be explained more. But again, I still like that idea. I want her to just be a little stronger.
01:45:41
Case
Well, going off your blood moon idea, like, if, like, they. They note it kind of feels like it in the movie that, like, successfully biting her when he was going for it, all of a sudden, like she's now in empowered form that she can actually take him on. So, like, if you went with some sort of visual signifier of that, like, whatever, you know, if it's a celestial body, if it's a lunar eclipse, if it, you know, whatever kind of thing you want to do with it, if it's like some alignment of the stars into an upside down crucifix. How about, you know, like whatever point when that occurs, like that's the spot where Lothos has to kill her to. To like reset his vitality and then.
01:46:19
Case
And maybe it's like it also allows him to sort of remain in a more human form and so he becomes more monstrous as they fight and. But that's also when like when Buffy's strength is unlocked and like you can do that whole type of thing. Like that would be really. That would be really cool. It's kind of supported by the text. And then that actually gets you to the Buffy of the series being like more super strong.
01:46:37
Matty
Because even in, you know, this is referencing the final episode, that moment where we see Willow do the spell and all of the girls who are Potentials, we're seeing them like the girl that's being hit by her dad or the girl that's like the. The like 8 year old girl with the bat. They like look up and they suddenly realize something is different. So it's not even like a signifier. But in that moment. I know I, as a fan watching the finale lost my. Because it was like, oh, this is so cool. And it didn't even have to be a big thing. But if they had set up this. Again, we've all talked about it, the stakes of the storytelling of why Lothar has to do it at this moment. And of course it also happens to be prom that night.
01:47:13
Matty
It's just that those two things are. I agree with you, Case the most of all that like we need a time limit to feel why the time is so pushing for us for this to happen. Yeah.
01:47:24
Case
Lothis comes back very specifically, like he had been maybe in stasis or something. And like that's why he's like very weak at the beginning and why they like kind of like wake him up, you know, which they never really explain. And then like they start feeding him so that he's ready to be there at that moment. And all these vampires require that of him because otherwise they're going to be destroyed. Yeah. So like, I think we're all kind of on the same page here. Like, you know, it's.
01:47:46
Matty
It.
01:47:46
Case
It's a pretty good movie. There's a lot to really like about this movie. You kind of have to check out some of like from some of your like, thoughts about it all because like it's. It's kind of a goofy movie. But like you get a lot of love with like Steven's Steven roots. Like, rant about LSD is so great. And I like, I normally don't pay attention to it because I'm normally, like, paying attention to Buffy, but this is, like, the first time where I was, like, really, like, locked on him, trying to explain just, like, how weird everything was while he was tripping balls. I'm like, that's. That's just great.
01:48:14
Matty
You just gave it.
01:48:15
Case
You gave a great actor a chance just to, like, riff for a minute there. And he did it spectacularly. Like, I. Like this movie is so much fun as it is. And it. Yeah, sure, it would be nice if it was, like, a little bit better and if people really loved it. But I think, like, it is a cult classic now.
01:48:30
Matty
A thousand percent.
01:48:32
Case
Yeah.
01:48:32
Sam
And my mom was ahead of the curve, so usually a good sign.
01:48:36
Matty
Yeah, she was. She's very ahead of the curve.
01:48:39
Case
Yeah. Mama Alyssaia is definitely our North Star on this show.
01:48:45
Matty
I think that just means y' all have to have Sam's mom onto the show.
01:48:48
Sam
Oh, my gosh. I don't even know. I would have to go to her house to set up the recording for her. I don't know if that's gonna happen.
01:48:56
Matty
Maybe for episode 200. It would be fun.
01:49:01
Sam
Maybe for Highlander. The Quickening.
01:49:04
Matty
Cause.
01:49:04
Case
What? Well, wait. I can't get up there in time to help you set up at all. Like, we're doing that next.
01:49:10
Sam
Oh, no, right. That's right. That's next week. Crap. Oh, well, mom can't be on.
01:49:14
Matty
It's always next week.
01:49:16
Case
We spoiled it for everyone. I'm sorry.
01:49:18
Matty
I'm sorry. We spoiled it for everybody.
01:49:20
Case
Sorry. Normally, you know, we try to, like, play it a little closer to the vest in terms of what our episode roadmap is. But. But, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, Matty, thank you for bringing this movie to us for this. Thank you. Thank you for organizing a Buffy thing, like, just whatever are you call an event or just, like.
01:49:38
Matty
I mean, I think it's. It's just our two shows currently. So, like, it's just for me, because Buffy is so special to me and so important to me that I wanted to just do something because we did the giant Pokemon event in last year, and then Hans organized the awesome Batman event this year, so I wanted to do a little something for Buffy just because she slays my heart. It is very important to me, and it is kind of a pinnacle also of, like, my queer development as a human. So I. This has to be included. And, of course, I had to come back to the show that started it all, so, you know, we just had to do that.
01:50:12
Case
Well, it is great to have you back on. It's been too long. But it's always just like fun to chat with you about stuff. And this is a really fun one to talk about because it's not a movie that I have a lot of. Like, here's how I would intricately restructure this whole thing. But it is a movie I just love to revisit.
01:50:29
Matty
Absolutely.
01:50:30
Case
Yeah. So outside of doing your own Buffy crossover material, what do you have going on? Where can people find you?
01:50:36
Matty
So you can find us at SMC Pod or SMC Podcast on Instagram and Twitter. We're at Saturday Morning Confidential on Facebook. And about the time that I am releasing this, I have a brand new show debuting called Exit Stage Death, which is the chilling true crime stories behind your favorite musicals and Broadway theaters. And so that is available at Exit Stage Death on all major podcasters. So that's just kind of the realm I am living in currently. And. And we are kind of loving it.
01:51:06
Case
Awesome. Sam, where can people find you?
01:51:08
Sam
They can find me here, of course, right here at Another Pass and nowhere else because I am going to be. I am currently still watching many episodes of Buffy so that I can speak with Maddie about the entire series. So I am in a room by myself, clutching a stake and a cross and praying for myself and getting ready with all the lyrics I still remember from Once More with Feelings. Yeah, I will be singing along to the whole thing, so I will be doing it by myself so that no one else has to be inflicted by me doing all the voices all of the time. But if you have any complaints, as always, you can find Case on Twitter Aace Aiken.
01:51:54
Case
You can find the podcast at Another Pass. You can find more episodes of this show@ certainpov.com where you can find tons of other great shows like Saturday Morning Confidential or you can find when this is coming out. We are in the midst of relaunching the United States of Women, which is a really cool podcast that used to be part of Geek Elite Media, but since that network has folded, we have brought it on. So the show tracks down important women in each state, going in the order that the state was ratified. So each season's eight episodes looking at eight different women. So throughout April, we're running the whole. The, the whole original four seasons. And then in May, we're picking up resuming the season that got cut off in the middle. So check that out. It's United States of Women. It's really cool.
01:52:41
Case
Jessica and Elizabeth are awesome and very knowledgeable and have done a ton of research into really cool people who just aren't really talked about as much because there's so much great man history and sometimes we need to look at the great women. So check that out@ certainpov.com where you can also find a link to our discord come inter get sneak peeks about upcoming episodes. Just chat with us about video games or whatever the fuck you want. Like it's a great time. We have a great community that we're building there, so check all that out and then tune back in for our next episode. We kind of spoiled it already, but Sam, you might as well say officially what our next episode is, right?
01:53:20
Sam
I cannot wait you guys. Next time on Another Pass, we'll be doing Highlander 2 the Quickening, not with Mama Alicia, but until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
01:53:55
Case
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of Views. Another pass by Podcast don't miss an episode, just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.
01:54:08
Sam
Another pass is a certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm, our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken, our intro theme is by Vin Macri, and our outro theme is.
01:54:23
Case
By Matt Stor Brogan by Maddie Ryan Limerick Let me say your name correctly. Sorry.
01:54:30
Speaker 4
Hello there. My name is Leo and I'm here to tell you all about my Dune podcast, Gom Jabbar. The perfect podcast for new fans of Dune and longtime fans of Dune alike. My co host Abu and I dive deep in both spoiler free and spoiler heavy episodes covering, gosh, Frank Herbert's original novels, the film adaptations, the board games, the comics, the upcoming video games, the HBO TV series, anything we can get our hands on. We even have a companion book club series to make your first or your 15th read through even better. So if you recently saw Denis Villeneuve's adaptation of Dune, or if you read Dune back when it came out in 1965, this is the podcast for you.
01:55:16
Speaker 4
You can find Gom Jabbar on Apple, podcasts, on Spotify, pretty much anywhere you find your podcasts, and we hope you join us on The Golden Path.
01:55:29
Case
Cpov certainpov.com.