Another Pass at Another Pass at Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back
Case and Sam are looking back at the earliest episodes of the show! Check out their thoughts on this classic episode when Case sat down with Geoff Moonen and chatted about Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back!
SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts • Google Podcasts • Spotify • iHeartRADIO • Stitcher • RSS
Overview
Episode dedicated to Kevin Smith's influence following his recent heart attack, underscoring the importance of his work in nerd culture.
View Askewniverse detailed as an interconnected film universe that began with Mallrats and culminated in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
Jason Mewes faced significant personal challenges during filming, impacting production due to substance abuse issues.
Film characterized as having a weak overall plot with awkward transitions, relying on 'and then' storytelling.
Subplot regarding animal rights deemed problematic and outdated, particularly in post-9/11 context.
Noted lack of diversity in casting and representation, with a predominantly white male ensemble.
Humor criticized for not aging well, featuring outdated jokes and problematic themes reminiscent of early 2000s comedy.
Suggested structural improvements include framing devices and varying visual styles to enrich storytelling.
Interview with Sam introduced new perspectives while affirming original hosts' critiques of structural flaws in the film.
Overall legacy reflects a blend of quotability and cultural relevance, highlighting Kevin Smith's early comedy style compared to current film pacing.
Notes
Episode Context & Background (00:05 - 07:17)
Another Pass at Another Pass podcast episode featuring hosts discussing a previous episode about Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
Episode prompted by Kevin Smith's recent heart attack, wanting to honor his work and influence on nerd culture.
49-minute brisk episode with good audio quality featuring Case Aiken and Jeff Moonan discussing Kevin Smith's filmography.
Discussion positioned as 'most meta episodes' - an episode about an episode about a movie that references many other movies.
Kevin Smith Universe Analysis (08:40 - 19:26)
View Askewniverse explained as interconnected reality starting accidentally with Mallrats, tying together story elements from previous films.
Movie served as intended conclusion to the View Askewniverse with Jay and Silent Bob as main characters after being minor characters in Clerks.
Jason Mewes struggled with substance issues during filming, drinking heavily while trying to get off drugs, making production difficult.
Film positioned as 'greatest disc two of some other movie ever made' - ultimate bonus feature content rather than standalone film.
Film Structure & Content Issues (21:58 - 48:37)
Movie suffers from awkward transitions and 'and then' storytelling rather than consequential plot progression.
Light plot structure with random elements, particularly weak animal rights terrorist subplot that feels dated post-9/11.
Racial and gender representation problems - almost exclusively white cast with limited female characters in meaningful roles.
Film's humor hasn't aged well with numerous gay jokes, misogynistic elements, and dated comedy style reminiscent of Austin Powers era.
Proposed Improvements (24:51 - 42:01)
Restructure with framing device - open with Jay and Silent Bob at diner with Suzanne the orangutan, telling story in flashback.
Jay as unreliable narrator would allow for cutting awkward transitions and explaining absurd elements as his perspective.
Blues Brothers structure suggested - characters piss off everyone along the way, leading to massive chase sequence at climax.
Different visual styles for Jay's version vs. Bob's version vs. reality to distinguish narrative perspectives.
Kevin Smith's Evolution as Filmmaker (12:18 - 42:01)
Smith writes about his current life experiences - Clerks while working retail, Mallrats about studio experience, Chasing Amy about creative ownership.
Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back represents Smith dealing with internet trolls and fan expectations in nascent online era.
Zack and Miri Make a Porno mentioned as better examination of filmmaking process, with Jason Mewes delivering strong performance.
Smith's limitation as visual director acknowledged - focuses on dialogue and character interactions over cinematography.
Cultural Context & Legacy (07:17 - 17:45)
Film represents early 2000s comedy style with extended gags and slower pacing compared to modern rapid-fire editing.
Miramax studio system comparison made to classic Hollywood, allowing for cross-pollination of actors and characters.
Movie's quotability exceeds its actual quality as a complete film experience.
Clerks cartoon praised as superior Kevin Smith work with only six episodes but high quality content.
️ Sam's Perspective (New Co-host) (58:03 - 01:02:25)
Sam agrees with original hosts' assessment - movie is quotable and fun but structurally flawed.
Acknowledges problematic elements while noting they're not mean-spirited but reflect era's comedy standards.
Harold and Kumar comparison resonates - better execution of similar stoner road trip concept.
Kevin Smith's wife's involvement in diamond thief subplot makes misogynistic elements slightly less problematic but still problematic.
Transcription
00:05
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Another Pass at Another Pass podcast. A show where we gaze into the annals of history of this show to a time before I was joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.
00:20
Sam
Hi.
00:22
Case
And we look at these old episodes from the show's history in the most navel gazy of fashions that we possibly can. And today we're navel gazing at an episode that was about a navel gazy movie. Because today we are talking about another past episode at Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
00:43
Sam
Yeah, this might be maybe one of our most meta episodes. It's an episode about a movie that was about a lot of movies.
00:52
Geoff
Yeah.
00:52
Sam
About making movies.
00:56
Case
I mean, we avoided going like fully meta by doing like, by avoiding the clip show episode, but.
01:02
Sam
Yes, true. That would have been worse.
01:06
Case
Yeah, I mean, like, this was as much an excuse for us to talk about Kevin Smith as it was anything else. So this episode came in the wake of Kevin Smith having a heart attack. And so that was a prompt for us to have this discussion. It's a Me and Jeff Moon episode. So the rapport is really good and it's a lot of fun, but it's definitely like a. It's two nerds having a lot of fun about a topic that they're very familiar with.
01:35
Sam
Yeah. And I gotta. I always love a Jeff episode. So, you know, I'm. I'm partial to a Jeff episode. Haven't had many Matty ones yet. Matt yet. Because he's, you know, had one, but not yet. But Jeff. Jeff and Matt, the. Both of them were editors at one point, so I always get really excited. This is exciting for Sam to hear these voices in episodes.
02:01
Case
Yeah. Yeah.
02:02
Geoff
Well, it's.
02:03
Case
It's cool. I mean, we'll. We'll talk more about this like later. But this is like as certain point of view is forming as a podcast.
02:10
Case
Network in the background.
02:12
Case
And I believe their show had started at this point but hadn't formally come under the banner yet. But. But it is very much about to happen. And so, like, this is like a snapshot in history. But on that note, I think that the. The audio quality is pretty good. It's a brisk 49 minutes of an episode. So yeah, I think people who are. Are tuning in for. For the episode in question, like, that's a lot of fun and we're certainly invested in it. You know, it is coming before the wave of what was the Jan Silent Bob movie that came out like a couple of years ago. It was like Jan Silent Bob strike again or something like that, or. Or Jan Silent Bob reboot was one that came out after that. So, like, the, you know, the.
03:06
Case
The stage that this movie is set upon has changed since we did this episode. But because people, I think, don't think as much about the more recent Kevin Smith movies anyway, I don't think it really matters for your enjoyment of this particular episode.
03:22
Sam
Yeah, I think so.
03:23
Case
Yeah.
03:23
Case
So, Sam, do you have any other notes for the people before we actually, like, get into the episode?
03:28
Sam
I would say that this episode is definitely an episode where there are some very solid pitches made and, like, a very concerted effort to make those pitches. Like, I think we're seeing the kernel of what the show is like, fully going to become once it's like, you know, really formatted. Because in some of the episodes that we've done so far, it's happened, but it hasn't happened. And it's more like collaborative or doesn't ever happen. It's just talking about the movie. But I think this movie very clearly, like, I feel like you and Jeff get down to business very quickly and then start building like a bigger, better movie with a lot of other references to a lot of movies that were in some way similar. And I found myself nodding along.
04:16
Sam
So I think people are going to enjoy this episode, especially if they were around for. For this era of. Of film.
04:25
Case
Yeah, if you're. If you're familiar with the Kevin Smith, like, oeuvre, you'll be down for this conversation. And, And I think that this, like, the. The conversations that I have with Jeff, especially these early ones, are the most playful, like, the most, like, taking the. The show concept as a game and really, like, reveling in that.
04:46
Case
Like, we had a.
04:48
Case
An upcoming guest, like, ask for, like, more information about, like, a coming episode recently. And, you know, I was like, oh, you know, I like to think of it as very playful and like, you know, a game kind of component to it. And I realized that may not actually come. Come through to everyone all the time because we. We have become more like, formal in our structure. But. But definitely here, like, when it's just. Just me and Jeff and like, you know, we're the. We're doing what we do, which. Which. Which is just talk about movies and sp. Spitball ideas. That. That's where this episode really shines.
05:21
Sam
Exactly.
05:22
Case
So on that note, why don't we get into the episode?
05:27
Geoff
Welcome to Certain Point of Views, another Pass podcast. Be sure to subscribe, rate and review on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com.
05:43
Case
Thank you for tuning in to another past podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and today I'm joined by Jeff Moonan.
05:48
Geoff
Hello, everybody.
05:50
Case
Thanks for coming back on Jeff. I psyched to do our first episode of the new year together.
05:55
Geoff
Always, always a pleasure to be joining you on this.
05:58
Case
Yes. So today we are talking about a movie that is near and dear to both of our hearts and is kind of a nice little sequel to your first episode on the show. Oh, yeah, we're doing Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back.
06:09
Geoff
Snooch to the nooch.
06:11
Case
Snooch to the motherfucking nooch.
06:12
Geoff
Yeah.
06:15
Case
Man. So a little bit of business for people listening at home. Kevin Smith recently had a heart attack, and we wanted to do something that was kind of related to his work because he was really important to me when I was young and getting into nerd culture and then more the actual production side of it.
06:35
Geoff
Oh, yeah. And I mean, I was a kid growing up in Jersey at that time, so it was. It was soul food, man.
06:43
Case
Yeah. So, I mean, this is a movie that definitely merits discussion.
06:49
Geoff
Yes. I would say that's exactly how that.
06:51
Case
Isn't it? Yeah. Cause I love a lot of it.
06:55
Case
Damn.
06:55
Case
It's quotable. But there's some structural things that seem weird even when I was watching it in theaters the first time. Yeah.
07:01
Geoff
It reminds me of Anchorman a little bit, where I quote it far more. Almost like the quoting merits it to be a better film than it actually was.
07:12
Case
Yeah, yeah.
07:12
Case
Like, I realized watching it, I was like, oh, fuck, that's right. That's where I get like, you are the ones who are the bollockers.
07:17
Geoff
Yeah. Like all of these things, you're just like, man, this is a gold mine of quotes. But it's not necessarily a. Yeah.
07:24
Case
I mean, Affleck was the bomb in fandoms. Yeah.
07:26
Geoff
Oh, yo. Absolutely.
07:30
Case
Yeah. It's like, it's quotable, it's fun. It's a nice, like, little wrap up to his other movies. It's very much a product of its time. Like rewatching this now, what, 17 years after it came out. It is a different world that it's in.
07:47
Geoff
It was a time where Austin Powers reigned supreme and you can tell in how it does its gags.
07:53
Case
Yeah. All right, so why don't we talk a little bit more about what we liked before we get into sort of the nitpicky stuff and then kind of re pitching it. Yeah. So as I mentioned, it was supposed to be the conclusion of the quote unquote View Askewniverse. Pardon me. The sort of, like, tied together reality of the Kevin Smith movies that started as an accident that first came into being with Mallrats, where they had to retcon something and ended up tying together a story element to a throwaway line in the previous movie in Clerks.
08:29
Geoff
Yeah. And so they just went, all right, I guess these are a thing now.
08:33
Case
Yeah. I mean, between that and. I mean, they had some character references, but they weren't necessarily super overt. Like, Tricia Jones had the same last name. I forget the sister Alyssa Jones. No, no. Alyssa's in Chasing Amy. But I forget there's a different Jones sister in Clerks.
08:48
Geoff
Oh, that's right. But Alyssa gets mentioned in Clerks, I think.
08:51
Case
Yeah, they talk about Alyssa. It's like, oh, you were friends with Alyssa. And then there's the comic book scene where they actually show the funeral that they cut in the movie.
08:59
Geoff
Oh, yeah.
09:00
Case
Where Alyssa Jones is there.
09:01
Geoff
Right. And it totally makes sense that Kevin Smith would link his universes together. He's a comic book man at heart. Every pun intended on that statement.
09:10
Case
Yeah. So it was fun to do a movie that was set in this universe to see a lot of these characters. And because Smith has a roster of people that he uses in all of these movies, it was nice to see a bunch of them in the same movie played by the same actor. The big example here would be Jason Lee playing both Brody and Vanky.
09:30
Geoff
Yeah, no, he got to play. Well, now is the other fun thing where he got to have the same actor play multiple iterations of characters, I think. Yeah, yeah. Yep.
09:40
Case
I would have loved, like, the Hicks family to be developed a little bit more the Brian o' Halloran's character. And all the movies, with the exception of. I don't think they gave the name in Chasing Amy.
09:54
Geoff
I'm pretty sure it is a Hicks, but Yeah, I don't think they gave him a last name in that one.
09:58
Case
Yeah, but like every other movie, it's like there's a different Hicks. Yeah. And that would have been great.
10:03
Geoff
No, I. I feel like that. And it's certainly in a movie that had a very well developed sense of the running. The running gag. That would have been a. That would have been very choice.
10:14
Case
Yeah, especially like, so that, like, the movie executive or like the MTV executive from. From Chasing Amy would have been a great fodder for like a third act cameo. Meanwhile, you know, you could have, like, thrown it in there like newsman. I mean, they ended up using Jon Stewart, who, God, looks young in this movie, I know it's man.
10:32
Geoff
God, time has passed, man, for everyone.
10:35
Case
But, wow, that was. I was like, shit, he looks very like. It's because it's one where, like, he looks great for his age currently, but, like, man, he looked so young when he was young.
10:47
Geoff
Daily show took its toll.
10:49
Case
It really did.
10:50
Geoff
Yeah. But that is what it is now, I think. I think that would have been a really great thing, especially with the Blunt man and Chronic production crew filming everything like that. You already had Banky there. It would have been so funny to have that guy back, whether in a high functioning role or in, like, being one of the PAs, having fallen so low. It would have been really nice.
11:11
Case
Yeah. I was seeing it as like a producer. Like. Yeah, true. Like, Like Holden passed on of a bank. He goes back to it and then they get like, the movie rolling.
11:19
Geoff
Yep, yep.
11:20
Case
So that. That would've been cool. I mean, the movie is very meta. So in addition to the concept of the world that he had been building and sort of tying those characters together, I really like how there's clearly this element of, like, my experience of the last, what, 10 years at that point had been just making movies. And I'm gonna tell a movie that's about making movies.
11:40
Geoff
Right.
11:41
Case
You know, dealing with Internet trolls, especially in this nascent era when this movie was made ahead of its time. And then the cath. Yeah. Then the cathartic scene at the end where they're just going around beating up all the people on the Internet.
11:53
Geoff
Yeah.
11:53
Case
Which, like, on the one hand, it's sort of like, oh, come on, man, you can do better than that. You don't have to beat up all of your detractors. But on the other hand, it's like, oh, but you also, you're filming this scene right now, and it is sort of fun just to be like, oh, yeah, we're just gonna go out and we're gonna beat them all up every now and again.
12:11
Geoff
Because, I mean, you and I have both watched so many Kevin Smith, like, Evening with Kevin Smith interviews, whatever else, because we're huge nerds. And there's so many things where he's like, well, I had this idea to do this absolutely over the top thing, or a producer made me. Made me try to do this. If you ever want to hear a funny story, ladies and gentlemen, look up the story of what a producer wanted to make him do with a pussy troll. And in Clerks, too. But.
12:34
Case
Yeah.
12:35
Geoff
Yeah, but it's. No, it is cathartic and it is almost exactly. Yeah. It's like, no, that is Jay and Silent Bob right there.
12:42
Case
Yeah.
12:43
Case
This is the movie where Kevin Smith was just like, I'm just making a big in joke for all of my fans, and then we're gonna move on with our lives. And then he didn't really do that, but that's what he thought he was doing here.
12:54
Geoff
That's what he was trying to do.
12:55
Case
Yeah. So it's a lot of fun in that regard. If you were invested in the previous movies, it's a great choice. The Kevin Smith movies were ones where the commentary tracks were almost as enjoyable as the movie itself.
13:07
Geoff
Oh, goodness. Yes.
13:07
Case
Because usually lots of good stories and jokes and had a lot of the actors sort of like spitballing with each other. So those were all fun. So you knew that this movie was gonna have a lot of that.
13:17
Geoff
Yeah. And it's.
13:18
Case
And ultimately it did.
13:20
Geoff
And it was a product of the early DVD era. And so it's kind of an interesting thing to see that looking at it as a singular film. I don't know. But looking at it as like the ultimate pop up video bonus feature crossover. Everything else. I think when were first talking about doing this episode, this is always my, like, one line review of it. It's the greatest disc two of some other movie ever made.
13:46
Case
Yes.
13:47
Case
I mean, that's when you first said that I was like, that is the best description I've ever heard of this movie. Like, it feels like that. Good morning, Ron Burgundy. Like, second disc. Yes. From Anchorman.
13:58
Geoff
Yes, it does.
14:00
Case
And I feel like that kind of ties well into, like, my actual pitch for the movie, which we'll get into in a moment. But yeah, like, the movie is such a big inside joke that it just assumes you know a lot about Kevin Smith movies or at least you've seen a few of them.
14:12
Geoff
Right.
14:13
Case
And unlike, say, like, the Avengers, where it all builds up to that movie and, like, it's effectively a sequel to all the ones before, this one is just sort of like, yeah, we're gonna do a victory lap right now. We're just having fun. Right.
14:25
Geoff
Everyone's just goofing off. And that kind of like, ease shows through in the film, which does it a lot of favors.
14:33
Case
Yeah. This is a movie where everyone is relaxed to be there. It seems like a good time. I know that there's some behind the scenes stuff that we'll talk about in a moment, but you get some interesting cameos, you get all the Kevin Smith mainstays, but then you've got back to back heartstring cameos for me with George Carlin and then immediately Carrie Fisher.
14:56
Geoff
Oh, that's right. Yeah.
14:59
Case
You've got some interesting choices for larger, ish roles like Shannon Elizabeth and Eliza Dushku. Like, you know, they're all fine.
15:08
Geoff
I think he showed up in that movie. Oh, yeah. He was the pizza guy.
15:14
Case
That's right.
15:16
Geoff
Like, oh, wow. It was Kevin Smith, like, bringing in all the people he's worked with in his old movies that he had a great time with. And it's like, hey, let's have some fun. Other people who are just like, yeah, let's do this.
15:28
Case
Yeah. You know, like Jeff, have you ever read the comics that he published between Clerks and this movie coming out? They had Chasing Dogma, which was the James Allen Bob story that told us those things.
15:43
Geoff
Yeah, it's how he got a snoons hat. And I read it. Okay, I'm a. I'll be straight up with this. I never owned it. I totally read that at my local brick and mortar comic book shop when I was in college.
15:56
Case
That's fine.
15:56
Geoff
Yeah.
15:56
Case
So it's been years. There was that. And that's the one that they referenced the most in this movie because they actually do the Suzanne story from that comic here.
16:06
Geoff
It's true.
16:07
Case
Which is a weird one only because they had been like, oh, everything's in continuity. Oh, hey, this happens twice. And they kind of make a joke that they steal monkeys all the time, but. But, like, it's weird that it's the same one.
16:18
Geoff
What a strange coincidence. I love it.
16:21
Case
Yeah, I mean, I'm fine with it too, but, like, it's just like, oh, okay, cool.
16:25
Geoff
And hey, when I first saw the film, I was. Yes. That was when I was watching Mallrats ad nauseam. And so to see him like the orangutan Suzanne, I don't remember what noise I made in theater, but I made some kind of noise because.
16:41
Case
Right.
16:42
Geoff
Payoff.
16:45
Case
Then he also did a clerk's comic book series, which was fun. That actually cemented the Brody Bruce and Randall Graves cousin.
16:53
Geoff
Yeah, the relationship there thing, which makes perfect sense.
16:56
Case
And he also did actually a Blunt man and Chronic book.
16:59
Geoff
Yes, he did.
17:01
Case
So those are all sort of properties that are ancillary that were out there. They also did the cartoon at this point, which is definitely not in continuity.
17:08
Geoff
But it is not in continuity. But it lives in my heart.
17:11
Case
Exactly.
17:12
Geoff
Just so hard.
17:15
Case
It's a great show.
17:17
Geoff
It was the greatest six episode cartoon I've ever seen. Flcl. What Clerks cartoon? Yeah. I threw that gauntlet what? He's got a big back catalog. Yeah. He created a universe.
17:34
Case
Yeah. He has this very large palette to work with in this movie. And a lot of the fans were devoted enough to be looking for those things. So that's all really good. I understand that apparently Jason Mewes, when they were making this movie, was trying to get off drugs and as a result, was drinking a lot.
17:55
Geoff
Yes.
17:56
Case
And was apparently very difficult to work with. And that made some of the things of making this movie more difficult.
18:03
Geoff
From Dogma onwards, it was a journey.
18:08
Case
Yeah. I mean, it's weird that this movie follows Dogma in a certain sense where Jay was starting to have these problems and they decided to, like, the Kevin Smith movies, have this sort of arc of Jay and Silent Bob's popularity. They're minor characters in Clerics. They're much bigger characters in Mallrats. They're only a cameo in Chasing Amy. And then they're very big characters in Dogma, and then they get their own movie.
18:37
Geoff
Yeah. It was a big buildup and. Well, the funny thing about all of it, the thing that really sticks out to me about Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back is there's this because of the fact that he was able to bring in all those people he worked with and he had this sort of, like, the fan base that you could have somebody show up for half a scene or for a moment, you know, like, oh, my God, I know who that is.
19:03
Geoff
It reminds me of classic film, of back in the, like, studio, like, the Paramount days, when, you know, actors would belong to a studio and make movies for them and, you know, like, come out every year and they would be able to do those ridiculous things where, you know, you'd shoot a big canteen scene where you've got, like, Peter Lorre and all sorts of other actors and everything else all crossing over with each other. Whether they're playing characters, playing themselves or doing both, they're able to just do that ridiculous thing. And so they could do the same thing in Jan Sala Bob because the fans were gonna follow it. And then even bringing it to Miramax.
19:39
Case
I was about to say Miramax kind of makes it that studio system right there. Like, all of these guys were, like, close with Miramax and Harvey Weinstein.
19:49
Geoff
Yeah. Which. Well.
19:52
Case
Yep. This movie is really weird to look at from the perspective of a 2018 human. Yes.
19:56
Geoff
Yes, it is. And thank goodness Kevin Smith took the stance that he did after all of that came to light. It allows me to continue to enjoy these movies.
20:07
Case
Yeah. I feel like he was always just Kind of the dope, just sort of rolling with it.
20:10
Geoff
And he was like.
20:11
Case
Not like in a bad way, but yeah, he kind of was like, oh.
20:14
Geoff
Man, could he have done more? Could he have been whatever. Yes, but that's hindsight 20. He was excited to be making these movies and he's always excited to be doing whatever project he's doing. And he works with the knowledge he has. So he's always been a favorite of mine for so many reasons. And that is among them.
20:35
Case
Although now that I say this, it is kind of weird to think about they have the code for when Affleck kills a hooker.
20:41
Geoff
Oh my God, that's right.
20:42
Case
Which kind of feels like the sort of Hollywood, we gotta cover up this kind of shit talk. Anyway, that's weird. I wasn't thinking about that until just now.
20:49
Geoff
But yeah, well it. Cuz there's also that thing of like, okay, yeah, we all know Hollywood. Oh, you can get away with anything. There's like the joke version of it and then it suddenly gets very real. Like you can make that joke because I don't think Affleck's ever killed a hooker. And if. If he has, Kevin Smith doesn't know about it because that's. He's not the guy who would do that.
21:12
Case
Yeah.
21:14
Geoff
God, I hope so.
21:16
Case
Shit, that's a weird one. I mean, he at least knows the jokes. Is the weird part there.
21:21
Geoff
Yeah.
21:22
Case
Other weird ones. So I was thinking about this. When you get towards the end with Chris Rock having his cameo, he is. I mean, it's kind of an awkward scene in general. Like Rock is sort of playing out this very like blaxploitation y, kind of like overly militant black director, but from the perspective of someone who just saw Black Panther. It is weird where it's just like, oh, I'm taking this art form back. I'm doing all these things. Is that another white boy in this movie? And it's weird to think that there aren't more people in this movie. It is not a racially diverse cast. It is almost exclusively white.
22:01
Geoff
It's almost exclusively white dudes.
22:03
Case
Yeah, I mean they get a few more girls in it as a result of the. The diamond thieves characters.
22:11
Geoff
You mean the spy suit cat girl?
22:14
Case
Oh yeah.
22:14
Case
It's not good representation by any stretch of the imagination.
22:18
Geoff
No.
22:18
Case
But there's at least more girls in it than the usual. Well, yeah, like more than the usual. Kevin Smith fair in terms of major characters.
22:25
Geoff
Yeah. It's probably the highest count of female leads in Kevin Smith's filmography. Up to that point.
22:35
Case
Just because the cast is so big.
22:36
Geoff
Yes, yes, exactly. But it's. And again, that's one of those things where you sit there and go, man, that didn't bother me at all at the time. Now I'm looking back on it, man.
22:47
Case
Yeah.
22:48
Geoff
Wow, this is endemic.
22:50
Case
Yeah. I was also thinking about how at this time it seemed like, oh, yeah, we're gonna have animal rights terrorists, and that's gonna be, like, a plausible thing. Which also happens then in 28 days later. And I can't help but wonder, like, oh, is that one probably a bigger thing in California than it is in the rest of the country? And two, this movie came out before 9 11.
23:09
Geoff
So, yeah, that's the other thing. It's a lot of. Oh, man. It was easier to laugh at those things then. And it's also. Nowadays, because it's harder to laugh at those things. It's easy to see how very flimsy it was.
23:26
Case
Yeah.
23:27
Geoff
And I feel like, honestly, that plot was the weakest part of the film.
23:32
Case
Yeah. I mean, the movie is light on plot in general, and that, I think, prevents it from flowing as well as it could have. And because it's so random, that also, I think, is kind of an issue. Do you want to let me start with a pitch?
23:50
Geoff
Yeah, please.
23:51
Case
So every time I think about this movie, I feel like this is the movie that was a prototype towards a much more successful later movie in the same kind of stoner genre, which is Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle. I feel like that's a movie where you get these two background characters being Rosencrantz and Guildenstern to other people's stoner comedies, which we know is kind of the vibe that Jay and Silent Bob were supposed to be. Smith has said basically that about the characters in the past and wanted to do things like that. And he's made references to Rosecrans and Guild and Stern are dead. He directly talks about it in Chasing Amy at one point. So we know that's sort of the vibe that he was going for with this movie.
24:35
Case
What would have been nice is if the movie felt a little bit more like that. Like where you felt like stories where they interact with people continue on in a different direction, rather than just being like, oh, we're just NPCs waiting for you to come by and get the quest log.
24:51
Geoff
Yeah.
24:52
Case
Which would be more complicated, but would have been interesting to do. And the way that I think you could make it all work really well is restructure the movie. So it's framed around theft of Suzanne.
25:08
Geoff
Okay.
25:09
Case
Open the movie with them walking in the desert and arriving at that diner that the cops eventually show up at with Suzanne and have that be your direct nod to Mallrath, because that was a story that they wanted to throw in there.
25:24
Geoff
Cool. Yeah. Story for another day.
25:26
Case
Exactly. They always talked about that one. They clearly wanted to do it in some capacity twice. So do that story and have them explain how they got there up until that point.
25:42
Geoff
Yeah.
25:43
Case
And then what you can do is you can have these sort of, like, tangential stories where they bump into someone else's movie, and you can make it a little more surreal because it's Jay telling the story.
25:53
Geoff
Well, I was about to say, you could have just as many moments of like, oh, wait, no, that's not how it happened. I fucked up.
25:59
Case
Right? Exactly. Exactly. You could do both Jay telling the story wrong and realizing it, and also Jay is just telling the story wrong and moving on. Yeah, like, you can do that. And you can also cut some of these transitions because that's sort of where the movie feels a little weird. Where. Yeah, if I was telling you the story, I'd say, oh, yeah, I went and talked to Holden, and then I ended up over talking to Banky. And then I. Like, you could bounce around like that. But the movie as it is sort of an awkward. Or does an awkward job of moving them from part A to part B. So by them telling the story, you can cut any transition that you don't have a solid fix on right then and there.
26:38
Case
So that would have been kind of a cool thing to do for that sort of structural point. I think that because Kevin Smith tends to write movies about what he's going through in his life, this wouldn't be something where. Because you could do a gritty movie about. Or like, not gritty, but like a more grounded movie about Jay and Silent Bob. But I don't think that's what Kevin Smith would have made at that time.
27:01
Geoff
And I don't think that suits Jay and Silent Bob by any stretch.
27:04
Case
Well, I mean, like, I was thinking the script for Pineapple Express was floating around at this point. Oh, yeah, it was. Notoriously. Took a long time to actually get made. That's true.
27:13
Geoff
Yeah.
27:14
Case
You could take Pineapple Express and strip the characters down and make them Jay and Silent Bob, and it would actually work pretty well.
27:19
Geoff
They would make for a pretty ridiculous.
27:21
Case
Heist that could even be their origin story.
27:23
Geoff
Oh, my God. Yeah.
27:26
Case
So that would have worked fairly well as a movie about Jay and Silent Bob.
27:29
Geoff
But.
27:29
Case
But I don't think that's what Kevin Smith would have made at that time. But I do think he would have made something kind of like Harold and Kumar. To the point where in the comic Chasing Dogma, at one point they go to a porn set, and while they're working there, the director is Neil Patrick Harris.
27:42
Geoff
Harris. That's right.
27:44
Case
So they straight up could have made Harold Kumar go to White Castle just.
27:47
Geoff
With two white dudes. You said that. Now that entire comic scene has, like, popped up perfectly in my head.
27:53
Case
Yeah. And side note, that has two things going for that scene as well. In addition to Neil Patrick Harris, Kevin Smith is really fascinated with movie making and really likes to do that. This also would be a prelude to him doing Zach and Miriam. Make a porno.
28:09
Geoff
Make a porno. That's right. Which, by the way, Jason Mewes was fantastic in that.
28:15
Case
Yes, he was great in that. Although I think he could have just been Jay.
28:19
Geoff
It's true. I think you can go back and forth on whether or not it was worth making MJ or not. It also. It also would have been great if there was a throwaway line where he was, like, posing as Lester the Molester cock and stuff. Like, he really was Jay and, like.
28:36
Case
And that was his poor name.
28:36
Geoff
Why would you hide that? And he just gets so caught up in it.
28:41
Case
Yeah.
28:41
Geoff
But regardless.
28:44
Case
But, like, this was supposed to be that swan song. And, like, so Kevin Smith likes to do stories about what he's going through. So he wrote Clerks while he was working as a clerk. He wrote Mallrats when he was getting studio. Or Mallrats probably is like, a weirder one because it was like, all right, I'm gonna do a dive back into my love of growing up in suburbia, and I'm being told to make a smart Porky's. But then his experience working on Mallrats is the fuel for Chasing Amy, where he talks about the difference between his first book, quote unquote, and Mallrat. Or his second book, which is Jane Silent Bob Strike. Or rather, which is Blunt man and Chronic.
29:16
Geoff
And at what point do you lose ownership of what you've made?
29:19
Case
Right. And he talks about creative process. Now he uses comic books instead of movie making. But it's very clearly that structure. Dogma is him getting through his issues from before. But that's also an earlier script he wrote that he updated.
29:31
Geoff
Yeah. He dropped Dogma in the credits of Clerks. Yeah, that was supposed to be the next one.
29:39
Case
So that's him going through his Catholic Issues. And then this movie is him dealing with the characters that are Jay and Silent Bob and trying to appease the fans and have this sort of big, we're all friends here, kind of like celebration of movie making. And then his next movies are him doing things that are kind of in the vein of like, oh, these are the things going on. Like Zack and Mary Make a Porno, I think is a really good movie as a discussion of what it was like to make Clerks. And they just use porno as sort of like a vehicle to make it a little bit more logical from the in world. Like, oh, we can actually make some money on this movie.
30:12
Geoff
Yeah. And make it a little absurd on top of it.
30:15
Case
Right. And like titillating and put all these elements in there.
30:18
Geoff
Cause there ain't no such thing as free titties, is there, Zach? That is probably, bar none, my favorite quote from that movie. There's a lot of things I love from Zack and Mary Make a Porno, but I think just there ain't no such thing as free titties, is there, Zach?
30:36
Case
That and just talking about being Oprah rich.
30:40
Geoff
Yes.
30:42
Case
Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, that's it right there.
30:46
Geoff
Anyway, it's important to talk about these movies around Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back because it is, in a lot of ways it is a film of transition on so many levels.
30:56
Case
Yeah. It's a movie that only exists because of other movies.
30:59
Geoff
And it's. Yeah. And something that I get at with like that old studio system that it kind of inadvertently or intentionally did. Actually an older film that I think it would have done very well to leaned towards was Blues Brothers where you have a far reaching destination and the greatest obstacle on the way is yourself as you piss off everybody. And at the very end you've just got every last element of the film chasing you down as you try to get to this very simple goal that should not have been a big deal.
31:39
Case
Yeah, I can see that. And also, considering this comes off of Dogma, they literally could be driven by God.
31:45
Geoff
Yeah, there is any amount of that they could have done. They really could have been on a mission from God in their own way. And no, I feel like hearing you say the idea of starting at the diner and doing how we got here with Jay screwing it up is. I hadn't considered that. And I think that's a fantastic tact to take. My brain was thinking like, you really just need to kind of clean up what happens along the way because that sort of like setting up what we're chasing and Getting there, you almost need to be, like, just throwing out hooks to drag along the whole way. And they tried to have B plots when it really just should have been a pileup, which seems clumsier, but I feel like would have served the film better. I don't know.
32:35
Case
Yeah, like I said, I think it gives you the opportunity to just fast forward awkward transitions. You just be like, oh, yeah, well, then this happened. Or like, wait, why'd you go there? We were hungry. Like, you could just have the scene happen and then roll with it.
32:50
Geoff
Well, you also could have. And with mine, you could make certain plots smaller and have them all show up on top of each other and have something that almost reminds me of the. The big fight in Blazing Saddles. I don't know if they'd have the budget for that or they could have done it all on the. The Blunt man and Chronic set and just have more elements come in and everybody reacting to it and, I mean, it piles up.
33:14
Case
There's already kind of that going on. So. Yeah, like, just make it bigger. Like, make it.
33:18
Geoff
Make it bigger. Yeah, they already had it. Keep going with it. And then you could have Mark Hamill dealing with this shit. And, oh, listen, time has been very kind to my opinion of Mark Hamill. It was always glowing. It's only gotten better. Give more shit to Mark Hamill, people. Yeah, like, just. Yes. So that's my thought.
33:40
Case
I mean, so that's sort of my strong one because, like, this is a movie that was made before Kevin Smith got into weed, so doubling down on actual weed jokes wasn't going to happen. That wasn't his world. He couldn't have made Pineapple Express even if the characters could have very easily been inserted into that world.
33:58
Geoff
Right.
33:58
Case
He could not have made, like, a true stoner comedy. All he can do at this point, in terms of what he's writing is he knows how to write things that are absurdist and referential to his upbringing.
34:10
Geoff
Yeah, he's got a great sense of continuity and yeah, he's got a great eye for the absurd. He is very good. He has always been very good at screwball. And I don't think that is an insult or belittling in the least because that is hard to do. It's very difficult to get, like, stupid cartoonish elements to pile up on top of each other. And even living amongst a more serious plotline to be like, yeah, alright, that was funny. Like, even from the days of Jay and Silent Bob trying to take down Le Fours in Mallrats. And even the Sheer absurdity. Just Silent Bob himself is a sheerly absurd character. And they drove it up against the wall in Strike Back because you make them a main character. And it's less forgivable that he doesn't always say shit.
35:03
Case
I was just about to bring up the Kevin Smith not talking part.
35:07
Geoff
Perfect.
35:08
Case
The scene where he's trying to point out that there was a sign on the back of the Hollywood critter. Yeah.
35:15
Geoff
The sign on the back of the car. Yeah.
35:20
Case
That is the most awkward scene. And I get that he's trying to make a joke of the whole thing. But Silent Bob isn't a character who just doesn't talk for a vow or something like that. He just has better ways to express it. And he and Jay don't need to communicate. Jay is this loud guy that Silent Bob doesn't feel he needs to compete against with to get a word in.
35:42
Geoff
But he can just never belong.
35:43
Case
He has never come off as someone who's like, oh, it's a big deal that I'm saying something. Other people should take it as a big deal that he's saying something. So him having to go through hurdles and make hand gestures and stuff. It makes sense where he just taps Jay and points at a thing because that's his kind of character. But it is very weird for him to come out the way he does in that scene in terms of the speech pattern. Because it's just not a natural thing. And I don't think he thinks of himself as being silent.
36:18
Geoff
Yeah. He's just a very taciturn guy.
36:23
Case
So. Yeah. I mean, like, if the movie kind of changed. Like, for one thing, that scene could have been part of Jay telling the story.
36:32
Geoff
Yeah.
36:33
Case
And he just wouldn't spit it out.
36:35
Geoff
Yeah.
36:37
Case
And then that works a little bit better because that's how Jay sees him. But it's not how, like, Silent Bob sees himself or how he actually is. Like, adding this movie to be the. Like, through the lens of Jay allows for some of these, like, crazy things.
36:50
Geoff
Yeah. And I think with the least amount of edits and least amount of additional this and that. I like your way. It is the. Yeah. It ties it all together. If it's a little odd on a little screwball, it's all in. In Jay's eyes. If it's. Yeah. No, you're right. I feel like. And now that you say it, like, the whole the Critters of Hollywood scene is kind of the biggest symptom or biggest visible zit of what is wrong with the movie. Because there is A lot right with it. There's a lot good about it. But those, like, awkward stages, those awkward bits is, you know, trying to drag the formula out a little bit. When that's not what the formula is. It's not the reason for it. It is simply the trappings.
37:38
Geoff
Silent Bob doesn't say a lot because Jay does all the talking. It's not, you're right. Silent Bob doesn't, you know, not talk because, like there's any big origin story as to, like, if he speaks, horrible things happen or anything else. He's just like, you know, he's a very laid back dude. Doesn't need to talk.
37:54
Case
Yeah. Chase already said everything that needs to be said right now.
37:57
Geoff
Yeah. When he's got something important to say, he says it. It's not like in Chasing Amy when he gave that whole story about Amy that it was like. I mean, Jay makes that joke, like. Oh, yeah, he likes to make it seem like a big deal when he says anything. Shut the fuck up kind of thing. Then he, like tells a story. Like he's opened his mouth, the conversation has begun and there's nothing big about that. They don't make it a big deal. Later on in Jane, Silent Bob strike back when he quotes legal precedent about profit sharing on film rights and likeness rights.
38:29
Sam
Right.
38:29
Case
And by that point, that absurd scene would be like us actually with them in character right there.
38:36
Geoff
Right.
38:37
Case
Whereas, like, up until that point, they, I mean, it's all been Jay. Exactly.
38:42
Geoff
I agree. And. And it's one of those things where it's not even necessarily absurd that, oh my God, Silent Bob is talking. It's like, wait, all of that's correct? Why does he know this much about this shit? And so there's already an absurdity on top of it. You don't need to jump through hoops. You didn't need to like, you know, hold a knife to his throat to get him to say something. It was just. It just was. Yeah, it's just Bob, you know.
39:12
Case
You can even have like scenes that actually are told by Bob that are like kind of more straight laced ones. But you never actually show him start to talk. It's just like, okay, wait, that's Jay's version of the story, Bob, what actually happened? And he just puts his hand forward and he's about to say something. And then we cut to the scene.
39:26
Geoff
Oh, yeah. And they've done that gag in the clerk's cartoon. And I always felt that was good or something like it.
39:34
Case
Yeah.
39:36
Geoff
And no, that absolutely would be another version of like, you know, he's got his own story to tell, and it's very mundane and it's very straightforward, and he just sees it all. He kind of is a very classical character. The two of them very much are fools. The Shakespearean sense. They speak truth to power. Jay, through all of his hubbub, all of his posturing, all of his internalized homophobia, all of his everything else, a lot of times he has a lot of truth to say. He sees it, but he speaks it in a very acerbic way. And Bob sees it all too. And when he has something to say, he says it very plainly, or very pointedly. All of his lines in any of the other films are. They get right to the point. And so it's very interesting.
40:31
Geoff
Like, yeah, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead is something we've been bringing up here. And that's absolutely it. I mean, they weren't the fools of Hamlet, but it's sort of like now we focus on. On these bizarre characters as they tell the truth one way or the other. And you're. Yeah, I'm coming around to your side of this. I think having it from Jay's perspective up till the standoff is pretty like. Cause still between the two of them, you're not entirely sure if it's true. And that's fun.
41:10
Case
Yeah. The other thing there. And this might be a little bit beyond what Kevin Smith actually can do as a director, because he's very famously not a shooting director. You could have some fun with different styles of camera work. When it's Jay telling the story, when it's Bob telling the story, and when it's the real world.
41:29
Geoff
Yeah.
41:30
Case
I don't know what that necessarily would be. There's a part of me that's like, well, what if Bob's version of the story is the black and white scenes? Because, you know, you have to have some of those.
41:38
Geoff
True. I feel like the scenes would be the least amount of camera moving ever. I remember seeing.
41:46
Case
Or the camera moves. But it's always like a one take.
41:49
Geoff
Yeah, it's like a oner and that's it.
41:51
Case
Yeah.
41:52
Geoff
I remember seeing Kevin Smith do a Q and A back at the first Comic Con I went to back in Jesus, 2010, something like that. And that was back when there was rumors of him making the Green Hornet film before that had ever come out. And he was just like, yeah, I mean, like, I'm great to have on the script. I'll write all kinds of crazy stuff. You know, I'll write Comic style things, but, you know, you want me to shoot the movie? It would just be, you know, Green Hornet and Cato leaning against the car, having a cigarette, being like, so what'd you do over the weekend? I don't know. I just went out to the club, acted the fool. Oh, yeah, no shit. Oh, my God. And they go off screen and you hear a huge fight scene happen.
42:31
Geoff
You just hear it. They come back, light up another cigarette. Yes. How'd the club go? Oh, yeah. Now you won't believe this shit. And that would be the movie. And I almost think of that as how Silent Bob's version goes. It's true. But it's also oddly limited. Like, I guess. I guess you're right. But I didn't see anything. And the J's would be a little more. I don't want to say frantic, but a little more quick cut, a little more at a faster pace or at a more frantic editing speed.
43:07
Case
Yeah.
43:08
Geoff
Which is really just something. Yeah. That would be more of a thing in editing than in the filming.
43:14
Case
Yeah. Because Jay should tell a story and then, like, they should just be at the next thing.
43:19
Geoff
Yes.
43:20
Case
Like, it's not like, oh, then we walked down the room and I was saying something to. To Bob while we walked. And then we arrived at the place. It should just be like, you should probably go talk to Holden. And then they're just talking to Holden. It's like, yeah, well, I'm sorry, but you need to be getting to Hollywood then. And then they are on the bus or trying to get on the bus.
43:36
Geoff
Yeah, exactly. The entire sequence of Stealing Suzanne would just be the most absurdly short thing like, how did that happen? Were there defenses? I don't know. I don't know. There's some cages. We got a monkey. I don't know. And just there they are and they got the monkey. It's got a hoodie on and we're good to go.
43:58
Case
Yeah.
43:59
Geoff
You don't need explanations.
44:01
Case
Yeah. And then you can also actually have the girls tell their side of the story if you want to reveal that they were diamond thieves in the movie. Like earlier in the movie than at the climax. The way that the movie now currently does. So that you have maybe Shannon. Elizabeth is the one recounting some of the stuff just to fill in the blanks so that it's not like, oh, how does Jay know this part of the story if he wasn't there?
44:26
Geoff
Yeah. I mean, and you don't even necessarily need to have a side by side telling the stories. You could Have Jay telling the story up to where they are. They get there, the diamond thieves show back up for all sorts of reasons. And it's just like. But wait, I thought you were a bunch of animal activists. Oh, my God, you stoner fucking dumbass.
44:45
Case
Yeah.
44:46
Geoff
And like, just like a five minute breakdown of what they've been doing. And then, like, you know, they're fucking with the cages and they're dealing with all the lasers. And, you know, you just have this, like, super quick, like, oh, my. This was. This was the missing piece. Ugh. Kind of thing.
45:02
Case
Yeah. Like, it'd be funny if, like, Bob tried to tell the story and he did, like, point out some things. It's like, it was really weird that they were gonna go, like, break into this space. And I saw them get catsuits at. It's like Silent Bob. You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
45:14
Geoff
Yeah. Why would the fuck have they had that? We didn't see those. And, like, they've been sitting on top of the crate with them the entire time in the back of the van.
45:22
Case
Right.
45:23
Geoff
And he just didn't notice. Would have been a very. Yeah. Almost like a kind of whodunit sort of thing where it's.
45:32
Case
Or.
45:34
Geoff
Oh, my God, I am totally blanking on this film term. It's the samurai movie.
45:39
Case
Rashomon.
45:40
Geoff
Rashomon. Thank you.
45:41
Case
Yeah.
45:42
Geoff
I didn't want to say roshambo, but I'm like, Rashomon. Like, it would be an absolute, like, Rashomon thing where it's Jay's version, it's Bob's version, it's the truth.
45:57
Case
And then you shoot it in different ways each time so that you can kind of give a visual tell to people and Because.
46:03
Geoff
I mean. Yeah. Because the plot itself is very light. It's very simple. And as far as bouncing back and forth, you only need to bounce back and forth for maybe 15 minutes of the movie, which you could then, like, edit down and break down. Yeah. Into like five minute, six minute chunks in that very big Ocean's Eleven style. How did we pull it off? Kind of way. Except it was pulled off completely out of the purview of the main characters. And they still manage to succeed.
46:36
Case
Yeah. I feel like this would be a stronger story there, like have a framing device to kind of just tie the sort of. The sketchy kind of ways that it's written. It's very much like Kevin Smith wanted to do, like, oh, I'm gonna have some fun with checking in with Holden MacNeil.
46:53
Geoff
Yeah. He threw A lot against the wall. And as a fan, I was happy to see all those people. People, absolutely. Yeah. I just think like a slightly different framing device and a little bit of editing would really clean this up.
47:07
Case
Yeah.
47:08
Geoff
Again, it wouldn't make it one of the great cinematic greats, but it would make it a little more clever, a little more fun. It would tighten it up because it doesn't need to be a big movie, but it does need to be a little tighter.
47:23
Case
Yeah. And I think that's sort of where we're at. You know, there's some stuff to be said about humor that did not age that well. There's a lot of gay jokes in this movie. There's.
47:32
Geoff
Oh, there's tons of those.
47:33
Case
There's some race stuff, but there's some just generally misogynistic ones. But. And I came up with the idea at the time.
47:41
Geoff
Well, now I was saying it was out in the time of Austin Powers where it was that sort of like a joke happens. But we're just gonna draw it out, maybe explain it for a minute, then we're gonna keep going. The music stopped and maybe we should have cut a minute ago. But we're just gonna go for a minute. Huh. Okay.
48:00
Sam
All right.
48:01
Geoff
And then move on to the next scene.
48:03
Case
Yeah. And comedies have gotten tighter since then.
48:07
Geoff
Very much so.
48:08
Case
Movies in general have like taken to more rapid fire editing. Just generally everything is faster in media than it was at this time.
48:17
Geoff
Yeah. No, the pace has picked up.
48:20
Case
Yeah. Especially for a movie like this where it's like this broad comedy. It worked fine for Chasing Amy, which is more dramatic, dealing with our feelings kind of movie and a more static shot kind of framework works fine. It doesn't look particularly dated in a way that this one feels much more so.
48:41
Geoff
And Chasing Amy has a little bit of that Romeo and Juliet idea where it starts off as a raunchy comedy and. And then kind of becomes a dramatic romance.
48:51
Case
Yeah.
48:52
Geoff
And that also does it a lot of favors. Now there is an endless level of discourse about representation and everything else in there. And I am not even going to strike the match head on that one because we'll be here for the next three hours.
49:08
Case
Yeah.
49:08
Geoff
But it does it a lot more favors. Whereas just having a straight up broad romp in Jay and Sonabob strike back. Yeah. There's a lot of good in it and it is very feel good, but it hasn't aged well.
49:23
Case
Yeah.
49:24
Geoff
Yeah. I'd say that's my big conclusion.
49:27
Case
Yeah. And there's no way that we can make it more progressive than it would be. But we do think we could if providing some sort of structure to sort of make the flow work a little better and provide just a little bit more of a drive to. The actual scenes tie in with Malra. It's open with them walking. Do the reverse shot of them walking away in the desert. Show them coming from wherever. They walking towards the camera. At the opening with Suzanne with the orangutan, arrive at the diner, sit down, have them meet someone. It could be any of the myriad of Kevin Smith characters.
50:05
Geoff
Oh, yeah. I mean, honestly, if they could have gotten the permission or whatever to open the movie with Suzanne, that would send it so over the top on reference level.
50:16
Case
Yeah. And then all these characters could sort of. Or like, you could have someone there who's, like, asking questions about it. And then it's kind of Forrest Gump. But it's Forrest Gump in a great way.
50:24
Geoff
Right. Which again, the film has got a lot of pedigree in terms of what it references and why. Referencing Forrest Gump, but using the most New Jersey of mediums. The diner is perfect. Like, absolutely. And because there again, you can excuse and have so many people coming in and talking and this and that. And you got these just two over the top motherfuckers with an orangutan and they're telling this ridiculous story. Just everything comes to a halt. And then it's almost like Clerks where nobody's getting served. And you almost have like, hey, can I get another cup of coffee? Shh. They keep the. And they keep the story going. Yeah, you're. I just. Yeah. A new framing device is really all it needs. It's a simple maneuver and a lot more.
51:22
Geoff
Just editing and some adr, maybe a couple extra shots in the diner, but other than that. Yeah, you're good to go.
51:29
Case
Yeah.
51:31
Geoff
Simple, elegant. I like it.
51:33
Case
Well, I'm glad that we could kind of meet as two minds on this one. It's, you know, like I said, it's a movie that it's hard not to enjoy it. Like, we're Kevin Smith nerds, so we're always gonna be there for it in some capacity. I loved it coming out, but even when I walked out the first time, I was like. It was really weird, like how Silent Bob had to, like, fort. Force himself to be silent now that he's a main character.
51:56
Geoff
Yeah, it definitely showed some threads. It showed some incongruous stuff. But, yeah, I definitely walked out of it with a smile on my face over a decade ago. And it was really fun revisiting it again in preparation for this episode.
52:13
Case
Likewise. I'm sorry to hear about Smith. The fact that was sort of the driving force for us doing this one in particular right now.
52:21
Geoff
Yeah. A speedy recovery to Mr. Smith.
52:23
Case
Yeah, hopefully. I definitely need to go deep on some of his more recent stuff.
52:31
Case
With.
52:31
Case
Tongue firmly in cheek as I watch it, but still, I feel bad for not watching Tusk and stuff.
52:41
Geoff
Yeah, I know.
52:45
Case
I don't know.
52:46
Geoff
Hey, you know what? I'll sit down and I'll read my trade of green arrow quiver. You know what? That still holds up. It's a little bit of product with time, but it's still some fun stuff.
52:57
Case
Yeah. Well, Jeff, thanks for coming on.
53:01
Geoff
Thank you for having me.
53:02
Case
It's always great having you here. Next time we're going to be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, you can check out other shows from certainpov@certainpov.com we've got both the new show and also Scruffy Nerfherders, our D and D or like our D20 Star Wars RPG game. Jeff, you've got your own series.
53:22
Geoff
Yeah, I've got Fun and Games podcast with Matt Storm where we talk about video game culture, a little bit of the history, a little bit of the future. It's not so much reviewing games as talking about. I mean, you got your movie buffs, your bookworms and your gamers, and it's talking about a little bit of where the hobby's been and where it's going.
53:42
Case
Well, everyone should be checking out all of those shows, especially Fun and Games. It's a great show. Every time a new episode comes out, I immediately listen to it and just enjoy the conversation about gaming. Warms my heart, but like I said, everyone should go do that. And until then, stay scruffy, my nerf herders.
54:00
Geoff
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's another past podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com oh, yeah. Fuck, fuck motherfuck, motherfuck, motherfuck, motherfuck noise 1, 2, 1 2, 3, 4 noise Smoking weed, smoking weed, doing coke, drinking beers, beers, beers Rolling fatty, smoking blunts who smokes the blunts? We smoke the blunts Rolling blunts and.
54:48
Case
Smoking hey man, can I get a nickel bag?
54:52
Geoff
Fifteen bucks, little man. Put that shit in my hand. If that money doesn't show, then you owe me. Oh, my jungle love oh ee o e yo, I think I wanna know, ya know? Yeah.
55:12
Sam
Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors?
55:17
Case
Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the painful action and the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to Books that Burn, the Fortnightly book review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma.
55:28
Sam
We assume that the characters reactions are.
55:30
Geoff
Reasonable and focus on how badly or.
55:32
Case
Well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions and favorite non traumatic things in the dark books we love.
55:41
Sam
Find us on Spotify, itunes, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts.
55:46
Case
And we're back. All right, Sam, so when we do these conversations about past episodes of the show, we have two things that we want to talk about, generally speaking, which is that we want to talk about the episode and our thoughts on it as a show. And then we want to get your thoughts on the movie since you didn't have a chance to participate in the conversation since this is before you became a co host of the show. So where would you like to start first?
56:16
Sam
Well, I guess I'll start where you guys start in the fact that, you know, my relationship with this film is just like you both. I really was a fan of Kevin Smith films. I watched a lot of them and this movie was. I love Dogma a lot. Like that was one of my favorite of his. But this movie is exactly as you said, it's very quotable, very like lots of good lines. There's a lot in here that is definitely not for today's like, you know, kind of like where we sit in humor and there is some punching down stuff and like you said, lots of gay jokes and some weird racial stuff.
57:13
Case
Yeah.
57:14
Case
And it's not mean spirited but it is there. And it, but it's there.
57:17
Sam
It, it walks this like weird line that like, it almost feels like it uses Chris Rock to like have permission to have that weird line. Especially because there's not a lot of people of color in this film. Having said that, it's still like there is still like really great moments of this film. And I think a lot of films, you know, from when were younger, even younger than when this film came out, you know, kind of have those moments where you're like, oh, that's not appropriate anymore. I really loved the Clerks cartoon. Like really, really. That was actually one of my favorite things. I actually still own that on dvd.
58:08
Case
Yeah, it makes me smile every time I listen to this episode. And we bring up the Clerks cartoon. Because the Clerks cartoon was so good.
58:15
Sam
It was so good. It was so funny. It was. It was great. So Leonardo and I, you know, so I think in general, yeah, this movie definitely was just a fun movie. And it does feel like a movie where they were just like, these are all the ideas we have. And I want to get as many of my friends to come down, and if you're familiar with that particular, you know, the Kevin Smith universe multiverse, then. Then you're going to enjoy seeing the cameos, for sure. So, yeah, I guess that's. I feel a lot, basically. I feel a lot like you and Jeff already felt about this film. Well, that's. I found myself nodding a lot, like, during this episode. I mean, like. Yeah, yeah. Like, even when you brought up the Harold and Kumar thing, I was like, yes. And then they just.
59:19
Case
I do want to clarify one thing about. About the Harold and Kumar thing in the episode.
59:23
Sam
Yeah.
59:23
Case
So I. I say that they could have done Harold and Kumar, but with two white boys at one point or something. Thereabouts.
59:30
Sam
Yeah.
59:31
Case
And, like, I'm not saying that would have made a better movie than Harold and Kumar. I'm saying that would have made a better movie than Jane Silent Bob Strike Back.
59:40
Sam
Right.
59:40
Case
For the record, I think that Harold and Kumar, the racial politics of. Of Harold and Kumar Go to White Castle are a really interesting thing and part about that movie. And, like, that movie is a. Is a classic for a reason. I'm just noting that there are a lot of interesting structural things, including, like, the Neil Patrick Harris of it all, that. That are not outside of the realm of possibilities of what could have been included in this movie. And based on the fact that there's a comic book series that already this movie quite literally apes some of the story arcs from.
01:00:12
Sam
I also really love Jeff's, like, Blues Brother thing where they, like, just walk around messing everything up and then people come for a bigger, crazy, more chaotic end of everyone blaming Jay and Silent Bob. Would have been a fun movie too, because. Oh, yeah, I think that would have been great, actually. I think that would have been. I mean, because Kevin Smith is very good at, like, you know, the setup and the punchline and. And the two of them, like, together on screen are very good at physical comedy. So I think that would have been great. Like, kind of like almost like a Hanna Barbera cartoon where, like, it's all the characters. I don't know if you remember this, but they used to do, like, they used to bring all of their characters in to do, like, a crazy world race.
01:01:04
Case
Yeah, like the Wacky Races or.
01:01:06
Case
Or laughingly.
01:01:07
Sam
Yeah, exactly. And it would be like, all of the characters, every single one. Yogi Bear would be there and. And Rocky and Bullwinkle and, like, they don't. You usually interact, but they're all there, and that would have been great.
01:01:20
Case
Or like, Blue Falcon and Dynamut are competing against, like, the Scooby Doo and.
01:01:25
Sam
Yeah, exactly. So it's like, if this movie had been more of that, where it's just like. Just like. Yes. Chaos. But, like, you know, it does have, like, that early 2000s, you know, misogyny, like, Maxim cover with, you know, when it comes. Just. What I mean is, like, Maxim magazine style of looking at women with the trail heist, which, like, I was like, all right, whatever.
01:01:59
Case
Does the fact that one of the women is his wife make it less bad for you?
01:02:06
Sam
A little. I'm gonna be honest, when I was watching it when I was younger, it did make it a little less bad, but it's still bad. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's still. Because this is all we're getting. Like, we're not getting a lot of ladies in these films, but it does make it a little less bad, I think.
01:02:25
Case
Yeah, no, it's true. And I was thinking about that in the episode. I make the argument that, like, well, there are more. More female characters in this movie than most of his other movies by virtue of the cast being so large, which is true. But, like, I was also thinking about this where it's just like, yeah, there's an equal ish. And it's probably actually more of, like, a 2 to 1, maybe 3 to 1 ratio of, like, male actors, like reprising the roles to female actors. But certainly, regardless of the number of. Of cameos that occur, the male roles are larger. You know, Like, Ben Affleck has much meatier parts than Joey Lauren Adams does in this movie by. By a long shot. And. And so the fact that both like that.
01:03:11
Case
Yeah. Oh, okay.
01:03:13
Case
I mean, I mean, in addition to the fact that we get Ben Affleck as Ben Affleck, but, like. Like, Holden is a much bigger part than Alyssa Jones in this movie.
01:03:24
Sam
Yeah.
01:03:27
Case
Which is a shame, you know, like, the. The movie is still expressive of all of the areas that, like, Kevin Smith has, like, limitations as a filmmaker, you know, and, like, to a certain degree, this movie is not the one that was going to be, you know, transformative of that. This was the, like, hey, look at all the movies we've done so far. Let's. Let's revel in that and not, you know, rock the boat in any real way.
01:03:55
Case
So.
01:03:55
Case
I don't know. I don't know. I guess what I'm saying is, like, I didn't love this movie when it first came out.
01:04:00
Case
Like, I like this movie.
01:04:01
Case
I've always liked this movie, but it's never been my favorite Kevin Smith movie. And so, like, there's a lot of, like, nitpicks that I've had ever since the beginning for this movie.
01:04:12
Sam
Yeah, no, and I think those are all valid because I think this is one of those movies that I went into theater really wanting to like it and walked out just kind of liking it.
01:04:23
Case
Right.
01:04:23
Sam
You know? You know, and it was fine. And there were. There were definitely things that you could say or that you could quote either funny and, like, good setups and, like, you know, payoffs. But for the most part, it was a very disjuncted film. Kind of, you know, they're just weird transitions in some places. So it's. It's still a decent film. It's just, you know.
01:04:59
Case
Yeah, it. Like, we note that this is the spiritual successor to Mallrats in terms of this being the episode that Jeff comes on, and his first episode was Mall Rats. And we wanted to talk about Kevin Smith. And so this was our first time getting a chance to talk about Kevin Smith again. But I think it's. I think it really is, like. It's that same level of chaotic, you know, the smart Porky's argument for Mallrats. Like, the. You know, it's very slapsticky in a way that not all of his other movies have been. And it's certainly the. The cartoon that Kevin Smith wanted to make about Jane Silent Bob. This is where his humor was at. This is not too far after doing Clerks the cartoon, anyway.
01:05:47
Case
And the next time he would be touching his toes into the Venus View skinniverse would be Clerks two, which is certainly a more cartoony Clerks than Clerks one. You know, like, the. The view of Skewniverse has shifted in tone a whole bunch of times, but by the time he's doing Jane Silent Bob Strike Back, he's got a goofy outtake on it.
01:06:12
Sam
Yeah.
01:06:13
Case
You know, I just sort of think how he's sort of, like, looking at this, like, world that he's sort of, like, positioned and to do this fan service, sort of, like, you know, tour of. Of the world that he has created at this point. It was, in his estimation, going to be a Screwball comedy just by virtue of the. Of the nature of the.
01:06:34
Sam
The world.
01:06:35
Case
Like, yeah, sure, he could have done a more serious, like, cheesing Amy style.
01:06:41
Sam
Yeah.
01:06:42
Case
Scenario.
01:06:42
Case
But.
01:06:44
Case
But, like, is that the movie that he wanted to make? No. Is it the movie that most of his fans were, like, kind of in there for? No. You know, like that, you know, like, we talk about it in. In the episode. But, like, we. We do need to emphasize, like, this is definitely the kind of movie that, like, someone who has, like, a lot of, like, Internet fans makes.
01:07:03
Sam
Yeah, for sure. And this was. This is, you know, Jeff. Jeff also said this, you know, this is the era where, like, Austin Powers was huge. You know, like, this is. This is the era of like, some really slapstick, sticky, stupid comedies that reference the before kind of comedies. Because that's what Austin Powers ended up being really. So that's the. You know, that's the movie that he's making. I was actually thinking while I was listening to this episode when the two of you proposed reframing the film as a flashback story narrated by Jay. I was thinking about how now on TikTok they have those, like, things where there's like. Because it's based on a film anyway, but it's like, I bet you're wondering how I got here.
01:08:00
Case
Yes.
01:08:00
Sam
And how you could have started with the chaos. Like, if only that trend had been a thing. Like, you start with the chaos at the end. I bet you're wondering how he got here. And it's like a freeze frame of Jay and Silent Bob running for people. He's like, well, let's start from the beginning. And you go. And they're just standing, like, in a parking lot somewhere. And Jay's like, telling you this story, and that would have been great. I just wish that was a device back.
01:08:27
Case
I mean, it was a device back then. It just wasn't necessarily as, like, popular.
01:08:32
Sam
Yeah.
01:08:32
Case
There.
01:08:33
Geoff
But you know what?
01:08:33
Case
You know where that device is really popular comic books, which, like, Kevin Smith is a huge fan of. So that. Not outside of the realm of possibility, you know, opening in media res and then, like, flashing back is like, you know, certainly a thing that he is familiar with as a concept.
01:08:49
Sam
Yeah, I think. I think that would have been pretty darn funny. And just. Just as you were saying it, I was like, thinking about it. I was like, yeah, because the thing is that they are two characters that are prone to chaos. And it would have been great. It would have been great. I really liked that proposal.
01:09:17
Case
Well, thank you. I felt really Good about it. This is the kind of movie where there were like, a lot of like, little areas to like, tweak as opposed to, you know, necessarily huge swaths of it because, like, the whole concept of like, well, we're gonna do the Suzanne nod and we're gonna do, you know, callbacks to Chasing Amy and callbacks to Mallrats and callbacks to everything else that we've done with Jane Silent Bob at this point. That, that is why we're here. So, you know, what, what order we jumble the scenes in isn't, you know, it doesn't really matter. So I feel like the pitch, like we start making suggestions before we get to pitch territory in this episode. And I feel like the pitch itself is sort of the biggest swing out of it all.
01:10:12
Case
But it's still all very like playful as an episode goes and very.
01:10:18
Case
Non.
01:10:18
Case
Specific because, like, most of it is still like. Well, yeah, the scenes are generally good. It's just not like structured very well. You know, there's a lot of and thens going on as opposed to. And. And thus.
01:10:34
Sam
Right.
01:10:37
Case
Kind of things. So yeah, you know, it's just like it. It's a mid movie from a franchise that we like and we've got a lot of thoughts about that was easy to make small suggestions for. And even the biggest suggestions that we make aren't wildly like saying that he needs to like from scratch, like rewrite the movie. You know, it's just like making the like the diner scene a little bit more important and having like the flashback elements in there. Yeah, I don't know. Like I said, I feel pretty good about this all, but it also doesn't feel like. It doesn't feel like the one that I'm like super proud of because it's not very complicated. You know, I was thinking about like the pitches from the perspective of like elegance as a category to judge them by.
01:11:32
Case
Mainly because I've been doing these like D and D judging competitions. And the criteria are how strong is the build, how good is your story, and then how elegant, how well do you put together the various elements of it all? And I think about that with our pitches where it's like, okay, well, how good is the pitch? But then how seamlessly do weave the details of it all? How much do we make it seem like it would be, you know, like how creative of a deal is it versus how realistic of a deal of. Of it is it? And all those kind of elements to it like, it's interesting here where it's like, well, it's not really a big swing, so it's very possible.
01:12:19
Case
But it also doesn't feel like I should be patted on the back too much for it because it's not like wildly different. It's just like nitpicking as an episode goes.
01:12:28
Sam
Right. You know, if you had to choose between just having like Jay's unreliable narrative completely, like, let's say we're going to go with that, or doing like a lot of different perspectives, like having someone interrupt and be like, no, that's not how I went. What would you do now? Do you think?
01:12:52
Case
I would just have Jay non stop ramble and not have anyone interrupt him because that, like, maybe imply that he's getting hit a couple of times by Silent Bob, but not actually have Silent Bob, like, interrupt him and. Because Jay just doesn't shut up.
01:13:13
Sam
Right, Fair enough. Fair enough.
01:13:15
Case
Yeah.
01:13:17
Case
Like, and that would be the nature of his kind of story that I think there's a recent Rick and Morty that does a really good job of doing the kind of scene that I would like to see Jay do where. Oh yeah, like, it's like a heist kind of scene. And so they talk about the planning of it and so they're talking about the planning of it while we see the scene actually happen and not go. Right. And so the whole joke is how complicated the planning was and how like, totally, like misfired it was. And it would be really fun to have just Jay, like, just have like no connection with reality, describing his like, sequence of events and like being like, you know, like, just talking. It's like. And.
01:14:03
Case
And then these three girls were macking on me because, like, my dick is that big.
01:14:08
Sam
Yeah. And honestly, like, that makes sense. I think ultimately it's just a much more fun movie with Jay driving the car because he is the character of Chaos.
01:14:24
Case
Yeah. And I think we could use a little bit more adhd, frankly.
01:14:29
Sam
Yeah.
01:14:29
Case
Like, has too many scenes where they travel to point A and then says, well, you should go to point B and then they go to point B and it'd be a few. It'd be fun every now and then to zigzag a little bit to like point C before we get to point B a couple of times or just to not really spend as much time with the traveling to the locations. Like, there's like an establishing shot for every place they go and like a walk up to it and like, it's just A very slow version of the storytelling that could have been done much faster. Like I said, if they're telling the story, they could be like, and then we're at Holden's place. And they just are at Holden's place.
01:15:07
Sam
Right, exactly. Which would have been better, I think. I just trying to think of all the other things you said.
01:15:25
Case
I will say this episode did make me want to go back and rewatch Zach and Mary make a porno. I don't know if there's necessarily in Another Pass episode out of it, but I think that I. I liked that movie when it came out, and I would like to. To revisit it and. And think more about it because I think Kevin Smith has taken some swings that didn't go very well, and now he's sort of like, doing his own thing and not making a huge cultural impact. And I thought Zach and Mary was like an attempt at doing like, something like, kind of. Kind of out there.
01:16:05
Sam
I could see that. Yeah, I just made me want to watch Clerks the cartoon again.
01:16:09
Case
That also true. Well, so on that note, I don't have that much more to say about this episode. Unless you do.
01:16:20
Sam
No, I don't. I think that. I think that the episode wonderfully covers everything. And I actually agree with all of your takes. I actually was. As I was listening to the episode, I was like, yeah, all of these could work. That could fix everything. I don't know if I have anything else to add, really. One of the few movies that I kind of just like. No, I think we all agree.
01:16:46
Case
Yeah. Because it was like a lot of just like little like, like we said, like little nitpicking. So it was just like, oh, yeah, fix this thing, then just this thing, then this thing. And like, we. We kind of got all the nits by the end of the episode.
01:16:58
Sam
Right? Yeah.
01:17:00
Case
Cool. Well, on that note, we have some housekeeping to do as. As we do for these episodes. This. So this one is coming out a little bit late. That is on us for not getting this recorded that quickly. But I'm going to try and not have it impact the release of the next, like, full episode of Another Pass. So this is going to drop over the weekend. And then the following Friday, the next episode of Another Pass is coming out. So on that note, the last episode of Another Pass that dropped was Godzilla, King of the Monsters 2019 that we recorded with Nick Wolf, which, wow. Listening to that episode, it was like, we are.
01:17:46
Geoff
We.
01:17:46
Case
We were so ahead on recording at one point because I think this Was like September or October that we recorded it.
01:17:53
Sam
Oh, wow.
01:17:54
Case
Like, because were trying to record it over the summer because I. That was the one that we had to reschedule because you were sick that night, right?
01:18:01
Sam
Yeah.
01:18:02
Case
And so like it was like, I remember I was at the beach initially supposed to record the first time. And so I, I want to say that was like August. So, man, it's like it shows like podcast time is so weird. But great episode. Nick was a great guest, is very knowledgeable about Kaiju movies. Meanwhile, the next episode of Another Pass that is coming out is on Troy.
01:18:33
Sam
Yeah, Troy.
01:18:34
Case
Yeah. Which I have listened to the edit of. It's a really solid episode. So that's really dope. Meanwhile, we talk about the episodes that we are doing here on the bonus show. And so the last episode that we did before this was on Captain the First Avenger. And the next episode coming up about on app is a look back at the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. How fun it is going to be fun. So it is with my friend Ben Goldsmith at the time, it was the longest episode of another to ever come out. Let me see how long it actually is since it is definitely not like up to that stuff anymore. I'm just curious. Yeah, it's under two hours.
01:19:34
Sam
I'm shocked that this was a long episode. Shocked. Shocked that you case would have so.
01:19:39
Case
Much to say this movie about an Alan Moore property. Yeah, I know.
01:19:44
Sam
I'm shocked as are all of our listeners. Absolutely shocked.
01:19:51
Case
I am 100% sure. But that's what happens here with the bonus episodes. We get a chance to be frank about the fact that Case can be kind of long winded and speak gibberish about comic book related material.
01:20:09
Case
Yeah.
01:20:10
Case
So those are what's coming up on that front. We should thank our patrons because our Patreon is actually running now and that's really cool.
01:20:19
Sam
Thank you.
01:20:20
Case
Yeah, it's. It's very exciting. So we've got a few people who are at the executive producer level that I'm going to thank. And that's Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Shawn Muir Lee, Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Masterpiero, Casey Akin, Nancy Akin, Adam Sampter, and Keith Letton. And so those are the wonderful people who have joined at the executive producer level. But this, the Patreon is new and we're happy to have people come on. I'm trying to provide bonus content for it as it goes. I'm going to develop more stuff, but currently it has been a bunch of essays and, you know, and our appreciation for. For people being participants in making the Certain POV media family grow. So, yeah, those are the big things there, Sam. Where can people find you and follow you outside of this show?
01:21:19
Sam
They can find me at the discord that we have. Yes, yes, they can. And other than that, I am nowhere to be seen because I don't need anyone ruining my time watching Clerks the Animated Series. But if you have any complaints about anything I said during this conversation or any other conversation, you can find ksat.
01:21:46
Case
Well, you can find me on the Discord, which of course you can find at the website for certain POV certainpov.com where there's a link there. There's links in our show notes. You can find our Discord pretty easily. You can also find me at the Blueski, Ace, Aiken, BSky Social or whatever the following part is. But at Case Akin, you can find me on Instagram where I'm holding on to my aim screen name from high school for dear life. So that's Castle Coatl 5.
01:22:18
Case
But.
01:22:18
Case
But all of those are. Are good places to find me. And yeah, you know, we've got some cool episodes coming up. We appreciate you listening to this one. And until next time, pass it on.
01:22:35
Geoff
All right, Josue, let's go through our new comic day stack.
01:22:37
Case
We have a lot to review.
01:22:38
Sam
I know.
01:22:39
Case
Maybe we've gone too far.
01:22:41
Geoff
Well, let's see. Marvel, of course, dc. I got Image, Dark Horse, Black Mask, Boom. Idw, Aftershock, Vault, of course, Mad Cave, Ony, Valiant, Scout, Magma, Behemoth. Wow, that's a lot. Oh, all we need now is a name for our show. We need a name for a show about reviewing comic books every week. Something clever, but not too clever, like a pun.
01:23:09
Case
It's kind of cheesy.
01:23:10
Geoff
Yeah, something that seems funny at first, but we might regret later on as an impulsive decision. A few dozen episodes in. Yeah, we'll think of something. Join Keith and HOSU for we have Issues, a weekly show reviewing almost every new comic released each week available on Geek Elite Media and wherever you listen to your podcasts.
01:23:30
Sam
New to the new.
01:23:34
Case
CPOV certainpov.com.