The Emperor's New Groove Got Another Pass - with J. Kennedy
Disney spent four years making the wrong movie. Then they threw most of it away and made The Emperor’s New Groove. Case, Sam, and guest J. Kennedy dive into the remarkable production disaster behind the beloved animated comedy, from Kingdom of the Sun and the infamous Sweatbox to Sting, drastic rewrites, cultural compromises, and the miracle of turning creative chaos into a movie this funny, warm, and endlessly quotable.
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Another Pass Full Episode Originally aired: October 16, 2026
Music by Vin Macri and Matt Brogan
Podcast Edited by Sophia Ricciardi
Certain Point Of View is a podcast network brining you all sorts of nerdy goodness! From Star Wars role playing, to Disney day dreaming, to video game love, we've got the show for you! Learn more on our website: https://www.certainpov.com
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PODCAST SHOWS: ▶ Another Pass - https://www.certainpov.com/another-pass-podcast
⏱️ Chapters
00:30 Welcome and Guest Intro
00:59 The Emperor’s New Groove
01:12 Why This Is a Fifth Episode
02:21 J’s History with the Movie
03:55 Sam’s Experience and the Representation Problem
05:35 Case’s History with the Movie
07:02 Patrick Warburton and Kronk
08:12 J’s Conversations with Patrick Warburton
11:03 Why the Movie Feels So Turn-of-the-Century
12:19 The Production Disaster Begins
12:56 Kingdom of the Sun
14:21 The Original Story
15:09 Sting Joins the Production
17:10 Casting and Cultural Representation
18:19 The Sweatbox Screening
19:54 The Sweatbox Documentary
20:34 The Creative “Bake-Off”
22:00 Rebuilding Pacha
23:21 Making Kuzco the Lead
23:49 Rebuilding the Movie in a Year and a Half
24:33 Becoming a Cult Classic
25:30 Rule of Comedy
27:06 Why the Movie Has Staying Power
28:14 The Movie’s Unexpected Heart
29:57 The Surprisingly Wholesome Ending
32:07 Kuzco Learns Accountability
32:35 Making a Great Movie in 78 Minutes
33:25 Pressure Creates the Fifth-Episode Success Story
36:11 The Ultimate “Another Pass”
38:38 How the Show’s Fifth Episodes Work
39:08 Could Emperor’s New Groove Be Improved?
40:23 Eartha Kitt and the Importance of Star Casting
41:11 Sting’s Role in Keeping the Movie Alive
45:28 Representation Then and Now
46:27 Incan, Aztec, and Mayan Influences
49:21 The Road to El Dorado Comparison
50:35 Disney’s Turn Toward Different Cultures
51:32 The Tarzan Tangent
52:24 What Is the Best Disney Movie?
56:16 Fascinating but Flawed Movies
57:45 Returning to Emperor’s New Groove
58:59 How Animation Productions Fall Apart
01:01:03 The Cost of Scrapping Four Years of Work
01:01:43 Finding the Movie’s Heart
01:03:20 The Best Movie They Could Have Made
01:04:14 Why Kronk Is Secretly the Most Capable Character
01:06:00 Yzma and Kronk
01:06:51 Patrick Warburton and The Woman Chaser
01:08:03 Kronk’s New Groove
01:09:24 Disney Direct-to-Video Sequels
01:12:03 Final Thoughts
01:12:56 J’s Plugs
01:13:18 The CPOV Discord
01:17:29 Sam’s Plugs
01:18:20 Case’s Plugs
01:18:54 Patreon and Executive Producer Shout-Outs
01:20:44 Next Time: Highlander II
01:21:07 Outro
01:21:20 Books That Burn Promo
01:22:16 CPOV Tag
Transcription
00:00
Case
Sam, how are you doing today?
00:02
Sam
I'm okay. How are you doing today?
00:04
Case
Are you grooving?
00:05
Sam
I am grooving. I am, yeah.
00:08
J.
Beware the groove.
00:10
Case
You definitely don't want to disrupt a groove because today we're talking. Well, sorry, let's take that one back, because I.
00:19
Sam
I did interrupt your groove. See, I got in the way of your groove.
00:21
J.
The rhythm by which you lose his life. Welcome to certain POVs.
00:30
Case
Another Pass podcast with Case and Sam. This week is a fifth episode, so we're talking about a movie that overcame adversity. Let's celebrate the creativity of the filmmakers. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Another Pass podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alicea.
00:49
Sam
Hi, Sam.
00:51
Case
How you doing today?
00:52
Sam
I'm grooving.
00:53
Case
You're grooving?
00:54
Sam
I'm grooving.
00:56
Case
Is it an old groove or a new groove?
00:57
Sam
It's definitely a new groove.
00:59
Case
Oh, yeah. Well, that's perfect. That's. That is perfect. Because today we're talking about the emperor's.
01:04
Sam
New groove and the poison.
01:07
Case
Well, the poison.
01:10
Sam
The poison for Kusama.
01:11
J.
He's supposed to be dead.
01:12
Case
He's supposed to be dead. Yes. Who is that voice? We are joined for this call by Jay Kennedy. Jay, thank you so much for joining us on this call. Now, you suggested this movie to me, and for listeners who might be confused, this is not a bad movie. We're right up. This is episode 190. This is actually a fifth episode that we're talking about here today. We are talking about a movie that succeeded with. There's an asterisk there. But succeeded in spite of great production difficulties. And I'm going to be honest, Jay, when you first suggested this movie, I didn't know about the backstory on this one. I didn't know it was a nightmare of a production that had a documentary based on how bad it was made behind the scenes. I didn't know all that.
01:53
Case
And so I was confused when you first mentioned it because it was like, oh, yeah, it's a Disney movie. It's like the end of the Disney renaissance. So, like, you know, like, it didn't do amazing at theaters, but it, like, did pretty well at. At home. So, like, okay, cool. And then I looked into it and saw what you were talking about, and I was like, oh. Oh, my. So first thing I want to do before we get into the larger conversation about this is what is everyone's experience with the movie? And Jay, you're our guest how about you start off with that?
02:21
J.
I have. So I saw the movie originally when I was younger. Right. And in preparation for this podcast, saw the movie rapidly across a week and a half, four times with different friend groups. And the documentary that we're going to talk about here in a bit, twice.
02:35
Case
Yes. The documentary is called the Sweatbox, by the way. For anyone who is curious what we're talking about here, you can find it on YouTube in parts. Cool. So with those various friend groups, were they all down for watching this.
02:48
J.
Movie as opposed to what I threatened them at knife point? Yes.
02:54
Case
Well, I'm curious, like, what the interaction was like if you had to convince them or if you had to, like, people were like, oh, hell yeah.
03:00
J.
So I, I, I have D D with various friend groups or something like D&D 30 times a month, give or take. And sometimes a table cancels because it's the holiday season or because somebody got sick or whatever. And when that happens, sometimes we play without one player, sometimes we don't because we do a lot of story rich, blah, blah. This means, to my great pleasure, that when a player can't be there, the other players are like, ooh, don't want to take another step forward without them. Movie night. Right. So it worked out really well. So I didn't have to convince them or anything.
03:35
J.
Although I would be lying if I didn't mention that I was going to be on this podcast and some of the people in some of those groups are aware of the discord and the podcast and blah, so they were like, extra excited to be a part of it.
03:47
Case
Oh, that's fantastic. I love that.
03:50
Sam
Thanks, everyone that came to listen.
03:55
Case
Sam, how about you? What's your interaction with this movie?
03:58
Sam
So I really enjoyed this movie. I did see it when it came out. I will say, though, with a caveat, I do have one friend, a childhood friend, and she was heavily disappointed in this film. And I just want to give a shout out to her because she really was excited to have something set in Peru. She's Peruvian and she thought there would better and more representation or at least better links to her culture. And that is not what this movie is.
04:29
Case
No. Certainly not in the final.
04:31
Sam
No, no. So, you know, I appreciate for what it is, and certainly this is one of the most quoted of the Disney movies, I think because of Kronk. He's amazing.
04:44
Case
Squeak, squeak. Em squeak.
04:46
Sam
Exactly.
04:47
J.
You owe me a new acorn.
04:48
Sam
There's so many amazing, funny moments, but I definitely feel like this was one of Those movies that I enjoy with the caveat, always speak to my friend in need and how it really disappointed her. So, yeah, it's not a bad movie. It just maybe could have been set anywhere.
05:09
J.
It probably could have been set anywhere. Yeah, yeah.
05:12
Case
Well, and that's with the ultimate movie, because the. The original inspiration was very much like, we're going to do a deep dive into the culture, really, like, highlight very, like, cool aspects and cool mythology and so forth. And then that all kind of collapsed.
05:27
J.
And the executives were like, no, little kids can't handle that. Yeah, sure they can. Brave little toaster exists, and I'm never going to be the same. Sure they can.
05:35
Case
Like, yeah, well, so my experience with it was I saw it. I don't know when I saw it, because I don't think I saw it in theaters. I saw it shortly after, and I've seen it a bunch of times, but I couldn't tell you, like, when my first time was watching it. I. Like, so this was 2000 or 99, the movie? Yeah.
05:54
J.
Was it 2000?
05:54
Case
Yeah, the release date was December 2000. So it was 2000. So I was 16. So, yeah, like, I was still checking out Disney movies, but. But making time to go see them in theaters wasn't necessarily, like, my top priority.
06:06
J.
Sure, right.
06:07
Case
Yeah. But I remember enjoying it. Like, it. It was fun. I enjoyed David Spade. Like, I. I loved that era of SNL a lot that. That Spade came from, that was like, that, you know, that classic era with, like, Sandler and him and. And Chris Rock and, you know, all those. All those guys. Farley, like, you know, just huge comedy chops going into that one. And. And really, you know, really enjoyed this movie as a zany, screwball comedy and didn't think too much about it beyond, like, oh, it's cool. They got Patrick Warburton, who I knew from Seinfeld at the time, to be the voice of Crunk, you know, like, that. That's great. And I didn't clock that it was Eartha Kit.
06:42
Case
I just knew it was a really interesting female villain character in it because I was 16 at the time and didn't spend a lot of time, like, really breaking down, you know, movies yet, like. And then over the years, like, it sort of became this big meme kind of thing. Like, Kronk is extreme. Extremely famous as just a mean generator.
07:02
J.
The having spoken with Patrick several times. It amazes me how much of that is not acting.
07:09
Case
Oh, yeah.
07:11
J.
Like, so I'm not.
07:13
Case
Yeah, you need to Rewind and explain how.
07:17
J.
So, so Patrick Warburton is a bit, he just sounds like that he speaks with his whole. All of it, the whole drama all the time. Right. And is just a really nice, like Croc is either ferociously autistic and is constantly seeking clarification beyond what a neurotypical person would require, or he's dumb as shit. One of the two. I don't think I would use either of those terms to describe Patrick, but what I would also call Kirk Crock a really nice guy and Patrick's a really nice guy. Like, like the line between Croc and Patrick is not as thick as some performances are from some people. And I thought that was really cool. Much closer to a Keanu Reeves Bill and Ted role than say, a Neil Patrick Harris Barney role.
08:08
Case
Gotcha. Now could we rewind a little bit further?
08:12
J.
Sure.
08:12
Case
What was the circumstances that you got to chat with Patrick Warburton?
08:16
J.
Oh, I asked him if he wanted to be on a show I used to do.
08:20
Case
Oh, okay. There we go.
08:23
J.
And he said okay. So we did that.
08:27
Case
That's fascinating to me as a producer of this show. And we might have further conversations after this. Sure, yeah.
08:34
J.
Yeah, go for it.
08:35
Case
That's, that's very cool. That's awesome. Because I love Patrick Warburton. Like I'm a gigantic Venture Brothers fan. So like, so I watched that show.
08:43
J.
Because he was in it and for no other reason.
08:45
Case
That's a lot of people's reasons for tuning in, frankly.
08:48
J.
I, I, two things, my age, three things, my age, my attention span and my time blindness mean that by and large, I don't have previous experiences with film or animation or whatever. Like if I know I saw the Emperor's New Groove when I was a kid, I do not remember it. Nothing. Because about a year ago, a moving year with me. Right. My ability to remember anything concrete past a year ago basically doesn't exist. I believe that I saw when I was in the 2000ish because my mother can tell me that, like, but I don't recall. This means that I can tell you that I saw X Disney movie when I was 14 and that I liked it, but I cannot tell you why. So that's a.
09:28
J.
That means I don't have previous experiences, which means that watching Disney movies as an adult, I, I don't have the privilege of watching a Disney movie and just watching it. Like, like I, I don't watch movies with the eyes of a 16 year old because they don't have the eyes of a 16 year old. So I just. I just can't. Which is a mixed bag because it means that when you. When you asked what our experiences in the movie was, and then it was your turn and you said, well, I liked it, I hadn't even considered that's what you meant.
09:59
Case
I wasn't saying the liked it part wasn't the question I was asking. What I was asking was, what was your, like, actual experience with this film? And then me liking it was just a thing that I added as flavor details to it.
10:15
J.
I see.
10:15
Case
You know?
10:15
J.
Yeah, that thing that people do where they, like, watch a movie when they're a kid and then they see the movie's an adult, and then they get. They have new context. Like. Like the guy in the beginning is the singer. Right. What's his name? Guy.
10:26
Case
Tom Jones.
10:27
J.
Tom Jones, right. Which is great because he's the guy. He's the. It's not unusual guy. Which means two different generations of people love that movie for a complete. And the same guy for a completely different reason. There's a whole generation of kids out there who. Who I just mentioned, who don't know that's Tom Jones, because why would they know? And I am the age to be one of those kids, and I'm not one of those kids because time blindness.
10:52
Case
Right.
10:53
J.
So my experience with movies and, like, everything, books, movies, video games, is different from everyone else's, which makes things. Opportunities like this a really good time. Thanks for that.
11:03
Case
Yeah. Well, and this is a fun movie to talk about because it's very zeitgeisty. Like, it being a comedy of the era and a very screwball, like, surreal kind of comedy, very much is invoking, like, lots of pop culture at the time when it came out, you know, the. The fact that Tom Jones is in it, like, I don't know if they were thinking about this, but Tom Jones was going through a renaissance in the late 90s, early 2000s. Like, he had been a regular character on Fresh Prince of Bel Air. Regular is not the right word, but he had made cameo appearances and. And Carlton was a big fan of him. And. And so, like, that had sort of, like, been a surge for his popularity. He was in Mars Attacks, like, right before this was it. Yes. Like, he had.
11:43
Case
He had a career, like, years earlier and then had a big resurgence at this point. So, like, him coming on this movie was, you know, just a lot of fun. And for the people who were, like, in the Fresh Prince generation, which is definitely me, like, there are just, like, Those signifiers of like. Oh yeah, I like this guy too. Like, this is like even more fun stuff to throw onto this movie. That's fun. You know, which is funny because like the original musical hook was that they had Sting on board.
12:14
J.
Right. And who is in the movie kinda.
12:17
Case
Yeah, yeah.
12:18
J.
I like the very end.
12:19
Case
Yeah. So we keep referencing that this movie was a shit show. Sam, do you have any idea what I'm talking about?
12:28
Sam
So I do know that there was an original, there was a film with a different name. I think it was like Something of the Sun. I, I know because this was something that Enid's brother talked about a lot. Yeah, my friends were very upset about this movie and like what it came out to be. And so I do know that there was a film that was basically that had more cultural significance and then that was sidelined for this instead.
12:56
Case
Yeah, that's the basic gist of it. So it was called Kingdom of the sun and it was this production that was put together by Roger Allers who was known for being the person who came name on Lion King towards the end of the production and saved it basically. Not, you know, he made the. The big insistence that we have like the scene of like Simba like trying to wake up his dead father and things like that, who really made it a big emotional movie. And so he was this like golden boy coming off of Lion King which to this day is still the best selling animated feature.
13:27
Sam
And no, I think Utopia just beat it.
13:29
Case
Oh, Zootopia just beat it.
13:31
Sam
Yeah, I think Zootopia just beat it because a really. Zootopia 2 had a huge opening and especially in China. Like, like the Chinese market may have actually made it the best selling like animated film of all time.
13:47
Case
See when I was researching this, I like the thing that was brought up was that Lion King was still doing the best. But. But that's fair. Regardless. Lion King it gigantic success of a movie. So Allers comes off of it is. Is this wonderkin can do no wrong is told like just make a movie. And they were trying to figure out exactly what culture they wanted to do. And the decision was to go with an Incan culture because it was thought to be very interesting. And so there were animators and so forth that were flown out to Peru. They did like all this research on it and they wanted to incorporate this whole mythology of Incan culture into.
14:21
Case
Into a movie about like Eartha Kitt's character being an evil sorceress who tries to blot out the sun while they do a PR pauper swap situation where in the original movie, Kuzco was named Manko, but still David Spade. But Pacha was going to be played by Owen Wilson, and they were going to be like identical twins just, you know, separated by different lives. And they were going to do that swap. And then Manko Spade's character was going to be turned into a llama and have to learn to be a llama, while Pacha gets to spend time as, like, as the new emperor. Meanwhile, the Eartha Kit's character is like, you know, corrupting everything with her dark magic and trying to wipe out the sun because she thinks that it is the. This is the secret to her restoring her beauty and gaining internal life.
15:09
Sam
That sounds fun, right?
15:11
Case
Yeah, but it was big and it was dark and it was deep, and it sounded really cool when you. When you first explained it to a person. And so it sounded really cool when they. When they pitched it to Sting, who came on board, like, right at the beginning of this thing. Now, mentioning Lion King should be a little bit of a tip off. This took a long fucking time. Lion King was 94.
15:30
Sam
Yeah.
15:31
Case
So they come off of this and they work for four years on this movie. And it's very much a Disney process. So while there is technically a script, it is a script that is put together basically from the storyboards. So, like, it's all board driven. It's all. You know, I kind of wish we had Sam Wilson on this call because. Not that you're not wonderful, Jay, just because she's animation expert. When she was on for how to Train youn Dragon, she had, like, so much insight in terms of, like, just how chaotic the production side of things are. Even movie is moving smoothly.
16:04
J.
I don't know your relationship with Sam. Call her. Listen, I know that you might be doing a thing, but I'm also doing a thing. And I want you to be doing this thing with me. So stop doing your thing and do this thing.
16:17
Sam
Ignore your children, Sam. Yeah, right.
16:20
J.
Like. Like just dump them on somebody else you care about. Not a random stranger, don't be a weirdo, but like, somebody else you care about.
16:27
Case
Yeah. We should also mention that we're recording this in the morning. And so that also would not really work if she's sure. But yeah, it was a Disney movie. The way Disney movies are kind of a scramble anyway. Like, there's all kinds of stuff going into it. There's artistic references, there's scenes that they're playing out there's musical numbers. Sting wrote all kinds of stuff. Like he was originally tagged to do six and he apparently just wrote notebooks and notebooks of complicated songs that they had worked out there. There's numbers that they have Eartha Kitt singing that you can get on the soundtrack. Like she's just the, you know, she was this awesome character that they brought in, or character actress I should say, that they brought in and had locked down and like I said, they had Owen Wilson locked down for this.
17:10
Case
Just a star studded cast that got reshifted in a lot of ways into what we ultimately got. Now, one thing you'll note when I'm talking about this cast is that they all sound really. Well, I was about to say they all sound really white. But Earth, the kid is not. But what we're not talking about is Peruvian people, right?
17:28
Sam
No. Yeah.
17:29
Case
So at no point was the casting this way. Now it's animated, so it's kind of less of a big deal. But it is certainly a thing that would have gotten attention if it was made 25 years later.
17:40
J.
You mean today?
17:41
Case
Yes, exactly.
17:42
Sam
Yeah.
17:44
J.
For people who don't experience time blindness and therefore occasionally feel old, the Emperor's New groove came out 25 years ago. Feel old?
17:51
Case
Yes, you should all feel very old. But it is a traditionally animated Disney movie. So I don't know if it necessarily feels like the freshest piece to the modern sensibility just because Disney doesn't do that very much anymore. It's not the last. I believe the last official one is Princess and the Frog.
18:12
J.
Yeah, yeah.
18:14
Case
Which came out several years later. It was like 2007, I want to say.
18:18
J.
Could be. Yeah, that sounds right.
18:19
Case
But that's well after the Disney renaissance had concluded at that point. Meanwhile, this is sort of considered like either the first movie of the post Renaissance period or the death knell of the Renaissance. That's the gist of what this movie was supposed to be. And they spent four years working on it. Then here is why. The documentary is called the Sweat Box. They went into this infamous screening where they're all like in the documentary, they're like fairly excited to show off what they've done. And it's about 30% animated. There's a lot of animatics, there's a lot of songs, and the test audience hates it. Just like absolutely. Like they like there. There's a lot of cool stuff going on in the movie, but in terms of a plot in terms of a through line with a character that they care about.
19:07
Case
In terms of anything to really hook them up, it's not there. The movie's not in that space. And so there is this huge scramble that happens because of that. Now, the reason it's the sweat box is because the screening apparently wasn't air conditioned.
19:22
J.
Yeah. So there was a room where they were. Right. There was a room where they were made to sit and wait for the executives to, like, come tell them what they thought. And I'm like, you want to put a bunch of people who are exhausted and angry. Well, not angry yet. A bunch of people who are exhausted and probably nervous in. In a room where they're just made to sort of drip like. Yeah, like melting icicle. People don't gross. That's mean. It's California. It's hot. As like.
19:54
Case
Yeah. So that. So that's where the. The name comes from because it's about the. The creators of this movie just sitting there sweating, waiting for some positive feedback and then it all falling apart. And what's cool about this documentary is that they had a lot of access. So it was made by Trudy Styler, who is Sting's wife. So she came on board. Basically, when Sting came on board just to start recording stuff, it turned into this larger thing because of the movie taking so goddamn long to make. So four years go by, this whole production. You know, like I said, they animated 30% of it. They had all the stuff worked on. They had, you know, cast it, they had, you know, recorded songs, they had done. Done all this stuff.
20:34
Case
And then all of a sudden they're in this terrible situation where the movie's not working. They like a lot of sequences that were put together by Mark Dindall. He had done a lot of, like, the comedy kind of stuff. And so they were like, why don't we try to figure out what possible paths there are? So Alers was tasked with trying to sort of take his movie script and turn it into a workable movie. And Dindel was tasked with trying to create a movie and just out of something. And this gets referred to as a Bake off in some of the articles. There's an oral history that. That was published at one point about this that I have not read directly, but I've read secondary sources on. And.
21:14
Case
And so, like, everyone refers to it as the Bake off, where each of these creative teams basically being split from the. From the original Kingdom of the sun team, start working on different concepts, one being a revised Kingdom of the sun and the other being what would ultimately become the Emperor's new Groove. And so that process occurs, and when the execs actually see the Dendel's version, they decide to go with that. And Allers leaves the movie, which is, you know, really sad considering this started as his production. And then he goes off and is on Lilo and Stitch. So, you know, it's not like the worst. It's not like his career stalled out at that point. But, you know, it was a terrible creative blow. And then they had to, like, retool this movie. They.
22:00
Case
They wrote the part of Pacha to be, you know, this father figure instead of being, like, an identical twin to Manko slash Cuzco and that, you know, necessity, the recasting. So it's John Goodman instead, who is great. Like, John Goodman is an amazing anchor for this movie in terms of, like, the emotional heart of things.
22:17
J.
Yeah. Upon discovering that Owen Wilson was going to be in the movie in the same position he was going to be in sort of, I was like, wait, what? So I'm not a huge fan of Owen as an actor.
22:28
Case
Really? Because my reaction was, wow.
22:31
J.
Oh, no kidding. I was like. And I love John Goodman as an actor, so there's definitely some bias there. But I was like, I. And I realize they're gonna be two different movies, but I cannot imagine Owen in the Pacha position that I am familiar with. I was like, no. Also, I have a hard time imagining John Goodman in almost any of the positions I've ever seen Owen in. So, you know, if, like, to me, these feel like two diametrically opposed acting portfolios. So the idea that they were both being considered for something that even is remotely the same role within the same. Same. I use that word loosely. Same film, is it kind of did my head in for a few minutes.
23:12
Case
Yeah. That is a wild concept right there.
23:16
J.
We'll just swap out Keanu Reeves for David Spade. It'll be the same.
23:21
Case
Yeah. Well, on that note, so Spade's part was a lot smaller because the. The alpaca character or the llama character wasn't supposed to be able to speak.
23:29
Sam
Sure.
23:29
J.
Right. Yeah.
23:30
Case
So Spade was only, like, in it for a percentage of the movie, and then it was going to be mostly Owen Wilson show.
23:37
J.
Right, right.
23:38
Case
And. And so that totally changed because they decided they liked Spade. They thought he was funny.
23:42
J.
He is fun.
23:43
Case
Yeah. So they then go into what.
23:49
J.
What is.
23:50
Case
I forget the exact term they use. It was something. Something hell. It was like Year of Hell.
23:54
J.
Yeah, it sounds right.
23:55
Case
Description for it where they had a year and a half to completely redo the movie without missing its initial release date. There's still some delays that occurred. And this is part of the reason why Dinosaur got shifted around in terms of things, which is often seen as, like, the big mark for why Disney won't allow a movie to get a delay anymore. Because Dinosaur bombed Horri and came out in the wrong season and all these things. But. Yeah. So Emperor's New Groove ultimately comes out. It doesn't do that great in theaters. It does fine, but it doesn't do that great in theaters, which is that asterisk I was going to say about the ultimate production of it. But next year, it does amazingly well in terms of retail sales.
24:33
Case
It tops the charts on VHS sales, which talk about a snapshot of the time it came out in 2001. So it does hugely well. It becomes a cult classic and then it continues to be a cult classic. It's a tight movie. It is 78 minutes. It is fantastic to watch with kids because it's big and goofy and cartoonish. But when you're watching it and you know about this whole production issue, all of a sudden the zaniness of this movie makes a lot more sense. Because when you're watching the sequences, for example, at the end of the movie, when Kronk and Earth again. Yzma. Yeah, sorry, I keep saying Earth again, but Yzma. When Kronk and Yzma make it back to the palace before.
25:17
J.
Yes. I was just about to mention this. This is a great bit, right?
25:20
Case
Kuzco and. And Pacha, they're. They're like, how did you do that? It's like, I don't know. By all rights, doesn't make sense and.
25:27
J.
Right. And they just ignore it. They're like, look, it's funny. Move on.
25:30
Case
Yeah.
25:30
J.
Like.
25:31
Case
And that's. That is the logic of this movie. Like, the movie exists in a world where it's like, rule of comedy is going to. Gonna win out on everything here. Like that. That's just the way of. Of things. Like. Like, it's not a.
25:44
Sam
Even the kitchen scene. Is that right? With. With going in. Yuzma going in, like, back and forth, changing the order.
25:52
J.
Where Croc. Yeah. Where Croc manages to just understand all that lingo, which, in my experience in diners is both unique to the task at hand and regional. Which means that Kronk is. Is a boss, right? Like, Croc is. Croc absolutely. Has spent some time as a line cook at some point in the past before he was like, yeah, he's the.
26:13
Sam
Most capable and Honestly, it has like a Looney Tunes feel to it, right?
26:17
J.
Oh, yeah. Like.
26:18
Sam
Like, it's so classic animated comedy. That scene. It's great.
26:22
J.
It's so good. What's with the chimp and the bug? Can we get back to the movie? Like, I. I love that they're willing to. Because in that moment, to me, that says we are willing to, in our very tight window, still pull, literally pull way away from the plot for just a second. Just for a second because it's funny, and then go right back, like, because comedy was the most important thing to the movie. The comedy at all costs.
26:45
Case
Yeah. And that's. That is ultimately the movie that we got. It's a movie that strings together these zany scenes because that's what they liked in the test audiences, you know, like that. That was the thing that was well responded to, like the. This screwball comedy. And they stitched together a movie out of that in barely enough time to make a movie, let alone animated movie.
27:06
J.
Sure. If. If I might, I. I think Emperors New Groove has. For anybody who's listening to this but hasn't seen the Emperor's New Groove, and we've just made it sound like it's funny and that's it. I feel like there's one more little consideration there. The movie has staying power. And I don't think that's because it's funny. I think because underneath the funny is a really cool story. Like when those two kids go, nah, Yahan. That's how kids talk. Right? That is one of the most authentic portrayals of children I have ever seen. And that movie is ridiculous. And Pacha and his wife, when he comes home and they're like, hey, dad, can we stay up? And she says, no, that was the deal. You get to stay up till your dad comes home.
27:45
J.
And he goes, no, you can stay up, but your mom and I are just going to stay up all night telling about telling each other how about we love each other and make kissy noises and they went gross. Going to bed. That's brilliant parenting.
27:55
Case
Like.
27:56
J.
Like it has. The groove has some really quality bits in it that I think I did say comedy at all costs. That's true. But. But I think there's.
28:06
Case
Oh, there's a lot to it.
28:07
J.
And I think it has a lot of heart, too. And I don't think the movie would. I don't think I'd be talking about in 2025 if it didn't.
28:14
Case
Like, there's surprising conscientiousness going into this movie. And maybe that's because of just the. But. But. Like, for example, the Pacha's wife, Chicha, is the first pregnant woman to ever show up in a Disney cartoon.
28:29
J.
No kidding.
28:30
Case
Like, they had just never shown a pregnant mother before, or at least not a fiercely pregnant. Like, they may have made reference to a character being with child.
28:37
J.
Fiercely.
28:39
Case
So. Like that. That, like, that was a step forward. The conclusion of the movie was heavily. Not heavily, but modified somewhat by Sting, who. Who insisted that the. The plan that they had originally made, which was that Kuzco was going to build his, like, resort park on the Cusco Topia. Cuscotopia on the adjacent mountain or the adjacent hill to Pacha's family changed so that instead it was a much more modest kind of location so that he could enjoy the. The village lifestyle that we. That we see at the end of the movie. Because they didn't want to have the, like, Sting's, like, environmentalist stance. Like, they didn't want to do a situation where he doesn't learn a lesson about paving over the rainforest. Like, the only lesson that he learned was about not paving over someone's home. And they wanted to make it both.
29:27
Sam
Right and also, like, it's like, oh, I can get away from the capital and have friends. Like, this is a place for friendship. You know, you end on that. Like, nice. Like, the emperor is no longer alone. Like, he's right. Has. He's connected with his people.
29:42
J.
Chicha makes him a shirt. Like. Like a poncho that has the llama on it.
29:46
Sam
Yeah.
29:47
J.
And if that is. If that isn't acceptance of what just happened to me, and now we're all laughing about it made into an article of clothing. I'm not sure what is. Like, yeah, that's really cool.
29:57
Sam
You know, even. Even Yzma doesn't, like. She's like. Just stays an adorable kitten who can't really do anything in the world. And, you know, it's kind of clearly like they don't even let her die. Like, you know, like. Like it's. It's not dark. She falls down the ravine, but she's alive and she's still with Kronk, and she's taking speaking squirrel lessons. Like, it is. It's actually like, this really adorable ending that kind of really is all these, like, loose ends in the kindest way. Like.
30:35
J.
Right. It's weirdly wholesome.
30:37
Case
Yeah.
30:37
Sam
Yeah. Like, they went through this whole thing. Like, the whole point is the beginning of the movie. There was. There was a murder, an attempted murder, and that did not happen.
30:49
J.
Right. The only reason he's not dead is because they screwed up what's on the vial.
30:54
Sam
Picked out the wrong vial because he was Yisrael. Doesn't label things properly, to be fair.
31:00
J.
All your potions look the same.
31:02
Sam
Yeah. So, like, really, you know, at the end of the day, like, it is. It is. It's tied up in this really wholesome, fun little bow where, like, all the characters are accounted for and the Emperor takes accountability to what was just our plot device. You know, like, we had a character in the beginning, just the. The old man who came to visit and the Emperor was really mean to him. And in the end, Kuzco is apologizing to him and, like, no hard feelings, like, I'm sorry I kicked you down the stairs. And he's like, oh, no. Happened to me all the time. Like, it's like such a weird accepted kind of thing.
31:47
J.
But the old man is my favorite character because that's just the most ridiculous thing to say. It's not the last. It's not the first time I've thrown out a window. And it won't be the last.
31:55
Case
What that rep Scallion, Right.
31:59
J.
Like, look, I'm a big strong man. I've been in fights, but I've never said, not the first time I've been thrown out a window.
32:07
Sam
But, you know, but also you're seeing a leader take responsibility, take accountability. Cuzco's apologizing to him. He's playful with him and. And you get that moment that you see, oh, yeah, the leadership has changed. He's. He's learned for the better. It's really satisfying end when you think about it that way, like every.
32:28
J.
And go ahead. Sorry.
32:30
Sam
Yeah, no, everything's just tied up. It is an actual happy ending, like a happily ever after.
32:35
J.
And they wrap up. They. They make. Because in order for that to work, you. In order for that catharsis to work, you have to have all the meaningful buildup for it to work. That's the end of a math problem at the start, right? And they make all that happen in, what was it, 75 minutes?
32:48
Case
78.
32:49
Sam
78.
32:50
J.
That is. That is not just a tight movie that moves very fast. It's a well made movie, right? Because some movies that are literally twice that long crash into the ground. And the Emperor's New Groove is really impressive on a. Like, those people were just experiencing whiplash while they made it and still made a movie that's this good. Sting pointed out at one point that while he was disappointed with A lot of how the movie's structure and manufacture came out. He was ultimately, he. He attributed the pressures to pushing him farther as an artist.
33:25
Case
Yes. And that is thesis of these fifth episodes. That the pressure that goes into these. These difficult productions can produce a work of art. Now, the work of. Has limitations to it. Like cited the cultural sensitivity of this. But the. The finished product is a fantastic work. And like Sting articulates this in the Sweatbox documentary. He talks about how, like, no one wants to be associated with a turkey. Like, he understands that if the movie's not working, it's not working. It's just a very depressing process.
33:55
J.
Sure.
33:56
Case
And it's, you know, it's. It's all this pressure and does form a diamond in some situations out of coal and sometimes those high carbon. Trying to figure out a way to make this a CZ to coal comparison. But it doesn't matter. The point is, like, this is the kind of thing that we want to talk about on the show. Like, we want to talk about a movie that had these kind of production problems and was reworked. I mean, this is like they had to do the exact reworking process. They had to take another pass that we talk about all the time and. And then come up with an entirely new movie with just the. The thinnest.
34:32
J.
I feel like an idiot. When you initially pitched that we might talk about a movie on the another. Another Pass podcast, I interpreted that with no further context. I thought the entire pitch was that we would be taking another pass, which is to say to talk about a movie. We had already seen the part where this podcast is specifically about movies that have Another Pass in the background. I learned that just now.
34:57
Case
That's the point of the fifth episode.
34:59
J.
Just now. Ha. Oh, boy. Well, good. I'm glad I picked one that had background content. Fantastic.
35:08
Sam
There's no time like the present.
35:11
Case
Right?
35:12
J.
Right. Because the future hasn't happened yet and the past is back there. Right?
35:15
Sam
Yeah.
35:19
Case
I find that amazing.
35:21
J.
Don't mind me.
35:25
Case
No, it's all good.
35:25
J.
But.
35:26
Case
But that. I mean, that is exactly what we talk about on these fifth episodes.
35:29
Sam
That.
35:29
Case
That we talk about movies that had production issues, and that's why we tend to talk. I mean, we've talked about a lot of animated movies, we've talked a lot about indie movies, and we've talked about big movies that have gone in weird directions because of the production stuff behind the scenes. A lot of Paul Verhoeven.
35:45
J.
That.
35:45
Case
That's just so. Well, like, exemplified by this film. I'm just so thrilled that we had this chance to talk about it. I am running out of things to say.
35:56
J.
Yeah. Because like you said in what may or may not be pre show or Cutter, who knows? While it did have a bunch of difficulties, they're pretty straightforward difficulties. There was a movie, they scrapped the movie, everyone was upset. They made a new movie and that's kind of it.
36:11
Case
Yeah. Like it's the most extreme example of another pass in the sense that they did a full another pass at it.
36:18
J.
Right.
36:18
Case
But the process of making this movie as chaotic as it was, like I was saying is a Disney movie. Like it's it. Which sounds. Which sounds weird. The storyboard first approach that Disney focused on and specifically Walt Disney focused on is the type of creative grounds that will lead to making 30 of a movie and spending four years on it and then having to throw it all away and. And scrap it and do it over, you know, basically from scratch in a.
36:45
J.
Fraction of the time.
36:46
Case
Right.
36:48
Sam
Yeah.
36:50
J.
Maybe. Maybe this I'll get cut after. I'm not sure it's relevant to the episode, but it is relevant to this moment. Do you have a podcast where we talk about this kind of thing in relevance to comic books and cartoons? And I don't mean trade school. That's me talking about a comic book I like. I mean like the Walt Disney pipeline production that you just suggested. I am familiar with how that works in lots of comic book companies and how it's very different across them.
37:14
Case
That's fascinating. Good question. I don't know of a show like that really focuses on the production side of comics. But that also could be just me not being familiar because there's so much content on the Internet.
37:26
J.
I. Oh, I meant, you know, I.
37:28
Case
Know I don't have a show like that.
37:31
J.
I'm not sure that it's. I'm not sure there's enough to talk about to make like a long term podcast. But what I'm saying is someday we should talk about that, I guess, is what I'm saying.
37:39
Case
Yeah. The closest just to shout out a creator that I like is the show comics tropes.
37:44
J.
Oh yeah.
37:45
Case
Which is a good show that oftentimes will talk about a creator's creative process which with certain creators who are very linked to specific series, they'll talk about.
37:54
J.
The whole like Eric Larson and Savage Dragon, right?
37:56
Case
Yeah. Or Mike Allred with Madman. They'll go into like a lot of detail about the specific series because. Because of that being so linked to the artist. But other times they'll Just like, follow the artist or the. Or the writer. So that's. That's a good series. If you're looking for that kind of information about comic stuff for. For movies, there are quite a few like this out there.
38:16
J.
Sure.
38:17
Case
I did discover a series on YouTube called this was a Shit show or this Is a Shit Show.
38:22
J.
I think I know the way to talk.
38:24
Case
Yeah. That I. That was. Did an episode in Emperor's New Groove, and I was like, oh, this is great. I mean, it was basically repeated what the sweat box said, but, like, it was a show that does basically the fifth episode concept of, like, here's the background. A movie that had a fifth episode.
38:38
J.
What do you do in the other four?
38:39
Case
So the format for the show is that every. The main four episodes, we talk about a movie that we find fascinating but flawed and speculate how they could have been fixed at the time of production.
38:49
J.
Oh, okay.
38:50
Case
And then every fifth episode, we look at a movie that is a proof of concept for that.
38:54
J.
Aha. All right, so what you're saying is that the conversation about how the Emperor's New Groove could have been, and probably was going to be, representative in a meaningful way and now isn't. It could have been the conversation in the previous movie podcast.
39:08
Case
Yeah, it could have been. Yes. That's fun. This is a movie that actually, like, could. I mean, it's really good. Like, I don't know what I would do to make it better. Like, beyond just, like, getting a little bit better.
39:19
J.
No, you'd have to make a different movie. Yeah.
39:21
Case
Like making a slightly different time, but somehow find the comedic chops of people who are just as good as David Spade but happen to be Peruvian. Which I'm not saying is impossible. Like. Like, straight up. Like, I'm not like.
39:33
Sam
Yeah, but I'm just saying the circumstances.
39:36
Case
Yeah, yeah.
39:37
Sam
Every casting is generally something. One of our rules when we're doing those speculative things is that were like, are we going to recast the stars? Right. Because usually you have to recast for someone at a similar level because some people, they're being part of the movie. Now. This is Disney film, sometimes just if Disney has an idea. But at this time, you know, there's a lot of stunt casting happening in Disney. There's a lot of stuff like that. And so big names are signing on, and that is part of the enticement. So I don't know if you remove, like, the names that eventually get cast in this, especially, like, Eartha Kitt. I think she's like, one of the people you could not recast. Because I think, oh, no, it would be all right for me.
40:23
Case
That was like, she was going to quit, but she. She definitely wasn't going to get recast.
40:26
Sam
No, no. It was definitely like a big queen. Like, Eartha Kitt is the reason I saw this in movie theaters, because I was already 19. Like, I was. Or. I mean, I'm a big animation person, so I will go see animated film no matter what. But I was already 19, and I wanted to see. I wanted to hear Eartha Kitt. So, like, I went to see this movie because of Eartha Kitt. Like, that's why I went.
40:51
J.
Yeah, I think you're right. I think sometimes actors or, like, the talent is such a big part of the draw that removing them. Now we're having two conversations where we're saying, what could a different person do? And would the draw be different?
41:05
Case
Right.
41:07
J.
Whether or not the. No matter what the answer of the questions are. Now it's two conversations, not just one.
41:11
Case
Yeah, Like. Like, for example, Sting was. Sting tried to quit. He supposedly quit, like, five times or something like that. And they kept refusing because he was so important to the actual production. It was seen as like being the Elton John to Lion King that, like, Sting being associated with this was going to be, like, the big selling point for this movie. Now, they ratcheted it back dramatically. But one of the reasons why this movie had the commitment to go for four years before they fully redid it was because they had Sting on board. Like, yeah. I mean, yeah. Allers being involved as well was another situation where it wasn't going. Like, they, you know, you had a wonderkin person helming it. So, like, what are you going to say to the person who saved Lion King?
41:56
J.
Right.
41:56
Case
But. But Sting was a big part of that. And so, like, he. He being attached to it. Like, you can't speculate about a different person doing the music for this because he. Like that. Just too big of a person involved.
42:09
Sam
Right. Yeah.
42:10
J.
It's like, for Samurai Jack. I'm a big fan of Gendy Tartakovsky's work. There's a period. Well, a couple of asterisks there, but most of his work. There's Samurai Jack, seasons 1 through 4 come out, makeup dies. Right. Who do you replace him with? Like, I would hate to be in Gendy's position. Like, there's. There's only, like, four people who keep happening in that show. Jack aku, Jack's dad, the Scotsman. That's it. Everyone else appears once or Twice. But the story's not over, so he has to recast somebody. But you don't have to get somebody who sounds different. You could have somebody pretend to be Mako. You could ask a computer to be. You could get a third person, you know, an entire different person. Go in a completely different personality and vocal presentation direction. And I just.
43:03
J.
I like the answer that he went with, but I. This isn't the point. The point is that the pressure of making that decision and if we talk about recasting, we're essentially putting ourselves in that position.
43:13
Case
Yeah. Now you did just make me, like, stop and check. Because I was like, well, this is a solved problem. Though the specific example you gave of Mako passing away, I was like, wait, that happened mid Avatar, the last Airbender.
43:23
J.
And yes, it did.
43:24
Case
Yeah.
43:24
J.
Right. That is a solved problem. But not for Samurai Jack.
43:28
Case
Right. But it did end up being Greg Baldwin coming on board.
43:31
J.
Yes, it did. But I just mean in that moment, like, because the gap between when season four happens and when season five happens is large enough that when Genndi wrote season five, there was no, like, I don't know that make. It was already dead. Right. Like, he might have had to think about that after the fact. I don't know. It was a big. It was a big window. So I am the weirdo that at my age, with my animation and content preferences, I haven't seen Avatar yet and I really do need to.
44:00
Case
I would highly recommend it. We just started watching it with my daughter.
44:04
Sam
Awesome.
44:06
Case
She's too young. Like she's not gonna understand it. But like, at the same time, it's like season one is soft. Like it. Season. Season one is great, but like season one is not very aggressive in terms of some of like the big emotional stuff that happens in season two and three. It's certainly this. This is a tangent that we will keep in, but we are going to end quickly. It's great. Sam, I thought you would be happy to hear that Grace has started watching Avatar.
44:28
Sam
I'm so happy.
44:30
J.
I would recommend one more caveat for that. Because of our previous conversation about representation of the people of various societal groups that feel represented and seen by Avatar. I have had four conversations on the subject. Two of them were intensely negative, which is nothing. Right. So that is part of my apprehension to seeing it. Two of those were like, wow, the show is terrible. Don't take away from it that our culture is anything like this. The third one was kind of a non issue. It was like. And the fourth one, eventually they came Back around to. By which I mean we talked about it. They said, hey, not now. And then came back to me later and was like, okay, now. And their answer was, it's all right, I guess.
45:18
J.
And much like earlier in the conversation, there's a difference between cultural, appropriate, cultural appreciation, representation, and whether or not you like the movie.
45:28
Case
Yeah, well. And yeah, tying this back to the Emperor's New Groove and thus ending that tangent. Like one of the things that is a thing about the era of the movie and the fact that it's animated sort of makes the cultural like the representation of the people less impactful on the audience. Like, you don't see the actors, you're not necessarily seeing that. That it's wrong in a way that's different from a live action movie.
45:51
Sam
Yeah.
45:51
Case
But both Avatar the Last Airbender and Emperor's New Groove kind of get a pass in a way that they wouldn't today because they came out 20 years ago.
46:00
Sam
Yeah, sure, I know. Yeah, go on.
46:02
Case
Yeah. Because in both scenarios we're seeing cultures that are interestingly represented, but they are very fictionalized and being done by white people in terms of the creative heads and then being voiced by a plethora of people, but none of whom are actually representing the culture that is being invoked. Because even Emperor's New Groove isn't like a really. It's not a one to one representation. It's not like a.
46:25
Sam
No, it's not.
46:26
J.
Yeah.
46:27
Sam
There are definitely things in the film that I'm like, oh, that's more actually Aztec, not Incan. You know, like. Yeah, right, like. And I wasn't trying to like, nitpick. I was just as I was rewatching it to. To discuss today or to even just thinking about it, because I was thinking about Anit and her brother when I was a kid and. Or when were younger and she just felt such true disappointment. And you know, I was thinking about that and I was just like, you know, actually like that. That over there, that's actually Aztec. So I think like, at some point when they were kind of splicing things together, it seems that they actually like did a little thing because there's this quote from Roger Ellers that's up on Wikipedia so everyone can like look it up.
47:12
Sam
But he said Kingdom of the sun was such a heartbreaking experience for me. I put four years of my heart and energy into that one. I was creating the epic picture mixing elements of adventure, comedy, romance and mysticism. And the head of Disney Features at the time was afraid that were doing, in his opinion, too many films in the same vein. He was also uncomfortable with the spiritual and cultural Incan aspects of it. Hence, he decided we should make a simple slapstick comedy. Would it have worked out if we had more time? I would have hoped so, but one can never know these things.
47:46
Sam
And so there was, like, in general, in this final cut, pullback to make this a more fictional, like, Mesoamerica, kind of like just South America, mixture of Incan, Aztec, and Mayan, like, stuff in the background to kind of put pull away from that. Because this quote kind of shows that there was a little uncomfortable feeling with just delving too much into the Inca background. So, like, that's the other thing I felt like. Yeah, like, pulling back. It just. It was like. So it's all the beautiful colors and kind of like the. The hinting, but not really any of the flavor. I can see why there are people who still kind of feel that way. And I feel like the Last Airbender is kind of like that, too. It's a totally fictionalized world.
48:39
Sam
It is removed, but it does borrow elements from other people's cultures, for sure, in order to build that world again. This is the time that this was done where it was just kind of, like, done. And people. I am people, definitely hungered for any kind of semblance of culture back then that the representation. And so it was a little more, like, past, you know, accepted, because it was like, oh, okay. Like, I say this as I say that, my friend was really disappointed. I mean, there was disappointment, but, like, it was just that people were hungry for anything in some ways.
49:21
Case
Yeah. Well, you can see that just in terms of, like, what came out the same year. The Road to El Dorado came out the same year, which. Oh, yeah, was DreamWorks back in the day when DreamWorks was just trying to, like, undercut anything Disney was doing because it was Katzenberg coming off of working for Disney and just trying to be, you know, full of spite and all that.
49:41
J.
I mean, you're not wrong.
49:43
Case
No, I know.
49:43
J.
This is.
49:43
Case
This is infamous. Yeah. So Rodel Dorado was created.
49:50
J.
Spite is a powerful motivator.
49:51
Case
Yeah, well, the Road. El Dorado was a spike. It was created because they knew they were working on Kingdom of the Sun. Right. And they wanted to do something that was in a similar kind of setting that people were going to be responsive to. Now, that one is more historic. I mean, I was about to say more historically accurate.
50:08
Sam
Well, on the weird scale that we're grading on, sure.
50:15
J.
Oh, yeah. All right. I guess. Yeah.
50:17
Sam
Like, if it's. If you're just comparing the two movies, nothing else, then yes.
50:22
J.
So weird hill we're building here.
50:25
Case
Yes, A second hill adjacent to the one that were originally picking.
50:29
J.
Like, you lied to me. I didn't hear any singing. I went all over those woods.
50:35
Case
Yeah, so, like, at the time, people were kind of craving this sort of South American style or Central American style that was being represented in some of these movies, like, just showing different cultures. Like, there was a huge desire just to get away from the sort of Eurocentric fantasy that had been really popular and things, you know, like Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast are both going off of really classic Euro, like European folktales. Lion King's its own kind of situation and. But then after the success of Lion King, you can see that they're trying to do different cultures and show different things. Even Tarzan is trying to show off some interesting stuff that was going on in the zeitgeist at the time, which was like, aren't gorillas peaceful and cool?
51:13
J.
And what a. What a wild decision to turn Tarzan into like a surfer, bro. Like, what a. What a wild decision. Like, oh, man, I need to rewatch that movie now. I remember liking that as a kid. I'm also got a soft spot for Phil Collins.
51:32
Case
I can't help but give my quick rant about Tarzan, which is that it's one of my favorite movies of all time. And I think that it is close to structurally perfect. I think that's a rant.
51:43
J.
That's praise.
51:44
Sam
No, no, there's more because.
51:47
Case
Okay, no, no. It's all praise. It's all praise. But the three act structure I think is almost perfect. It is such of how you pace things, but at the same time condense it into the sort of like almost serialized component. So it's like three different Tarzan movies that you could see. And you can really just imagine like announcer being like, next time on Tarzan.
52:12
J.
Nice.
52:12
Sam
I thought you were going to complain about when I posed a mutiny in your comment section on Facebook when you said it was the best Disney movie of all time. And I was like, absolutely not. And then other people joined me.
52:24
J.
All right, Sam, what is the best Disney movie? You don't get to come in here swinging like that and not have.
52:33
Sam
Okay, I'm gonna. I'm gonna be honest with you. I. I am unsure because I do feel that emotions always come into it and.
52:41
J.
Okay, fine. What's your favorite Disney movie in your current emotional state? Like, look, I'm willing to Play this game. You're gonna come in here, swing it around. I'm fine.
52:50
Sam
So, technically, my favorite Disney princess is Aurora. And so Sleeping Beauty for a really long time was my favorite Disney movie of all time. But I will say, because there's a dragon in it, let's be honest.
53:03
Case
Yeah, it's a visually very attractive movie.
53:07
Sam
It's very classic. Also, Prince Philip is, like, the first Disney prince to actually have a real name. And he is, like, really, like a good hero. There's so much great about it. Maleficent is an amazing villain. Incredible villain. Her Little Stooges. Perfect. The beats are perfect. The fairy godmothers are hilarious. The relationship of the parents, like, both sets of parents, is really lovely. Like, it's just this beautifully classically made, gorgeous film that holds up really well no matter how many times I've seen it. Do I think it's the best of all time? Maybe not. I think maybe the Little Mermaid actually is. Because the Little Mermaid actually kicks off the Disney renaissance. It has a perfect score. It reintroduces the I Want song to the Disney catalog. It shows Disney a formula that they can do to make winning songs.
54:10
Sam
Has an incredible just like beats. And they choose the right people. They scour for the right Ariel. I think for me, it is a perfect film. And I have umbrage with all the others. Like, I can pick and choose in different things. But for me, I think the Little Mermaid that starts it all back up again for Disney and reboots the Disney musical is probably the best. Even though Aladdin does some really cool stuff. But, yeah.
54:45
Case
Oh, man.
54:46
J.
So now my autistic brain is like, well, are we talking about which movie I like the best, that's Disney, or which movie I think is. Is the best? Because these are two different things. There's objective analysis and whether or not I liked it. And one of the smartest things I've ever been told was for my friend Scott, who was like, listen, if you've only seen five movies in your life, whether or not you liked it is all the critique you should have to offer up. But once you've seen a thousand movies, ten thousand movies, do better than that and understand that those are two different. Like, the artistic eye and the personal opinion are two different things. And I was like, hey, Scott, how do I tell the difference?
55:21
J.
And he goes, oh, so look, if it's clear that the director wanted you to laugh right now and you're afraid, instead, they up whether you like the moment or not. Now what? I. I suppose, yeah, if it was clear that they were going for Dimension A and you landed in Dimension B, that doesn't mean that if. Look around the room. If everyone else landed up in Dimension A, it's you, right? Like it's just you. But if 10 people watch this movie and the director wanted everybody to be Sad and all 10 people are angry or worse, all 10 people are happy, you can enjoy this movie. You can like a movie. And like, I really like Bulletproof Mock. It's a terrible movie. It's terrible. But I like that movie anyway.
56:05
J.
And I don't tend to subscribe the mentality that a movie is so bad it's good. No, no, the road is. It's bad and I like it anyway. Like, that doesn't mean that it's magically a good film.
56:16
Case
Well, that's the fascinating but flawed thing that we talk about on the show that we want to talk about movies that are interesting in some ways. And not every movie that we talk about ultimately is we're going to be recording one tomorrow. That I sure had a real hard time getting through.
56:31
J.
Oh yeah,.
56:33
Case
I'll tell you off, Mike. I was there.
56:35
J.
Is that, is that a secret for the podcast?
56:37
Case
No, actually, because based on release time, actually this, it will have already dropped and it will have already given this hot take because this is episode 190 and that I think is going to be episode 189. So we're going to be talking about Sphere. Oh, the Dustin Hoffman sci fi movie.
56:51
J.
Poor, poor man.
56:52
Case
I had a hard time making it through that movie. It is a slogan and we're gonna talk about it and see if we can get around that. But that's gonna be tomorrow's conversation.
57:04
J.
Over the last couple of weeks, a couple friends have decided that watch it because I just didn't watch a lot of movies as a kid that combined with the timeline, this means I'm almost a blank slate. So they were like, I was gonna.
57:14
Case
Say, are you sure you didn't watch a bunch of movies as a kid?
57:17
J.
I'm not. They were like, hey, let's watch a bunch of terrible movies just to watch a day pivot between his brain hurts and his soul hurts. Yesterday I saw the Day After Tomorrow for the first time. Good God. No offense. If you liked it, I, I swore the whole damn movie. Before that we saw the Core.
57:40
Sam
Yeah,.
57:42
J.
Nope, don't like that.
57:45
Case
Just having a run of it. But meanwhile, you did look at the Emperor's New Groove a bunch of times and the Emperor is a lot of fun. I'm really glad that we had a chance to talk about it.
57:53
Sam
This. Yeah, this is a really fun movie, and I'm glad I got to rewatch it.
57:57
J.
Super fun.
57:58
Case
Yeah. And knowing the additional context about how. How broken the process was getting to where they ultimately got sort of like. Like we said, really informs the. The comedy of the scenes because you can see why they don't care about. Does this make sense? In fact, they lean into the fact that doesn't make sense because they wrote this in a year and a half. So every time that there's a question, how did that happen? Who knows? What a coincidence that this door opened exactly right here. What are the odds?
58:29
J.
What are the odds?
58:33
Sam
How did you get here before us?
58:36
Case
Exactly. So it's a movie that loves that and is a lot of fun to talk about, but it is so interesting how bonkers it could have been and how they barely swerve to avoid it. So this is a really good entry on this. The only problem is that there aren't lots of mistakes. It's just one big. They were working on the wrong movie the whole time.
58:59
J.
Sure.
58:59
Sam
Yeah.
59:01
Case
It's not like Star wars, where they had to, like, where it was a horrible shoot and then they had to recut the whole thing.
59:07
Sam
Right. Like, this is one of those things that happens in animation, especially with storyboarding. You storyboard, you storyboard, you put things together. They do. When we. Actually, for anyone who really likes this episode or wants to hear more about animation, you should go and find our how to Train youn Dragon episode. Because Sam gave us some, like, amazing stuff about, you know, just the. The process of that. And, you know, they storyboard, they. They put snippets together, they animate stuff, they show it to the. The higher ups. There can be all sorts of notes that come down that can scrap whole storylines and change everything. And so with this one, they kind of had this, like, carte blanche, right? And so they were going in this direction for four years to then be told, we don't like this.
59:54
Case
Right.
59:54
Sam
And that's a horrible, like, deafening blow to the animators and the team that worked on it, because there's so much work that goes into. They travel to Machu Picchu. They went as a group and traveled to Machu Picchu so that they could. They could get a feel for the place and. And draw things out. And, you know, oftentimes animators use other animators to, like, test things out. And I'm sure someone had to get dressed up in a costume and pretend they were an evil, you know, sorceress and kind of just so they could see the movement. And you've got four years of that work on what you feel is like a deeply moving and dark film with. With lots of different themes.
01:00:42
Sam
Really trying your best to represent a culture which, you know, we're not sure how well they did that because we didn't see the finished product. And then an exec comes in and goes, everybody hates it. Let's make a slapstick. It's terrible. They fit you in a room with no air conditioning before they do that.
01:01:03
Case
Yeah, it, like, it had, like, Allers is the one I feel really bad for aside. You know, again, he still had a career after this, but, you know, like, it's so much work and having spent years on projects and some of them have fizzled out and some of them have just been grueling to get to the finish line. But yeah, those projects that just. That you put your heart and soul into for a stretch of time, and then they just don't work. Yeah, a lot of my editing projects, like. Like video editing projects that when you realize you just don't have the footage or something like that. That's where I can really relate the moment there where you're just like. You just don't have the foundation to make it the thing you need it to be.
01:01:43
Case
And yeah, like, this was one where they had a lot of the dressing that they needed, but they didn't have that heart and soul and had to. Had to scrap it and rebuild it. And they found a lot of heart and soul. Like, you know, Kuzco's adventure and his journey to go from this, like, selfish prince to a, you know, slightly less selfish prince is a really good one. Like, Pacha is a really interesting character that. That guides this moral journey for this reprobate. And that's awesome. But it, you know, it. It wasn't there when they started working on it, and they. They eventually found it. And that's. That's. That's really cool about movie making and this whole process. Like, if nothing else, this.
01:02:25
Case
This research has made me really want to do a deep dive into Lion King because that one, apparently the whole Hamlet thing wasn't in the original foundation of that movie. And like, I can't talk about Hamlet without referencing Lion King now because they're so one to one. So, like, that. That's just a fascinating kind of way that, like, literary things can sort of become part of your work in mid process and, you know, Like I said, there's a lot of. There's a lot of heart and soul in this movie, even though it's very slapsticky because you have a central character who is very well played by Spade. You've got an emotional core in John Goodman. You've got all this stuff going on with Yzma and with Kronk. Like, it's. You just end up with a really solid movie that's really fun.
01:03:07
Case
And, like, yeah, sure, like, there's things that we would have done differently if this was being made with 2025 sensibilities. But in 2000, I don't think people were really thinking about a lot of the details that we've brought up about it. And.
01:03:19
Sam
Yeah.
01:03:20
Case
Yeah, like, I think that this is the best movie that they could have made at the time.
01:03:25
Sam
Yeah. Especially with the. The timeline and.
01:03:28
J.
Yeah.
01:03:29
Sam
The fact that they literally had to scrap an entirely other movie to make it. Just, like, kind of piece it together. It's. I definitely feel, you know, bad for all the animators. I feel bad for Eartha Kidd, right, who went from being an all powerful badass, you know, villain to the most adorable hot mess. Just, like, honestly, like, you know how, like, a lot of times when you have villains that, like, they're smart, but their lackeys are not. Right.
01:04:07
J.
It's one of my favorite tropes. The bad guy loses not because the bad guy is inept, but because the people they rely on are inept.
01:04:14
Case
So.
01:04:14
Sam
So this. This is, like, kind of flipped, right, because Yzma is not actually a good villain. Like, she doesn't label her stuff well. She doesn't know which potions are which. She, like, literally just gets crunk to do everything. And in fact, Kronk is actually incredibly capable. He's just too literal about stuff, and he's just trying to figure things out all of the time. And he's just, like, not subtle in any way. And I love him for it. I love. I love his. Like, you think because he's big and he's got the big voice and, like, he, like, he's a chef. He's. He can carry her. He. He can. You know, he speaks to squirrels. He speaks to squirrels. He's so capable.
01:05:02
Case
That's how they. That's how they find out where Cusco and have gone.
01:05:05
J.
Like, yeah, you speak squirrel. And he goes, yeah, I was a junior woodchuck. I had to learn all the woodland creatures. Like, yeah, he doesn't just speak squirrel. There's a. There's a Suggestion. A statement, actually, that he speaks way more languages than that.
01:05:19
Sam
Right, right.
01:05:20
J.
Like, Cronk. Cronk is.
01:05:22
Case
Is.
01:05:23
J.
Has a robust skill set that is hinted at, but not, like, he's a whole guy back there.
01:05:30
Sam
Yeah. He's also, like, a loyal, good friend because, like, no matter how Yzma is with him, he, like, eventually he clearly forgives her because he takes the kitten in and teaches her squirrel.
01:05:42
J.
Right. And he tried to kill her that one time.
01:05:44
Sam
Yeah. Like, she went to get rid of him, and she shot him down a chute that literally led him down a chute that would open a door. Who knew it would lead to there? And basically was the editor, like.
01:05:59
J.
Right. Right.
01:06:00
Sam
Yeah.
01:06:00
Case
Like, honestly, here's a real quick aside that's some hearsay I want to spread, which is, like, when you said good friend, like, there. There is repeatedly the implication that they are romantically linked.
01:06:12
Sam
Right.
01:06:14
Case
And apparently, back when they were much younger, Eartha Kitt and Patrick Warburton were in a. Like, an exploitation movie together, and they may have hooked up on set.
01:06:22
J.
Oh, my.
01:06:25
Sam
Interesting.
01:06:26
Case
Yeah, I heard that bit of hearsay, and I'm like, oh, I'm gonna. I'm gonna spread that rumor, because that's awesome.
01:06:32
Sam
I mean, honestly, that would be a rumor that I, like, if someone's like, sam hooked up with Eartha Kitt, I'd be like, yes. Like, even if it's not true, I'd be like, yes, she was amazing.
01:06:42
Case
That's true. Sometimes, regardless of your proclivities, it's still like, well, yeah, obviously, I would stand.
01:06:51
J.
For a weird aside. Patrick Roberton, during one of our conversations, he said that one of his favorite movies he's ever made is the Woman Chaser from 1999. If you haven't seen that, given how close it is to this movie's release, you should see that it is weird. Weird in a way that I fail to describe. It was very weird. And the name the Woman Chaser does not imply at all, probably anything that you think that it implies. It's. It's absolutely just mental. And it was really cool, and I'm glad I watched it. And it is very different from most of the roles that Patrick is famous for. I don't think there's a huge difference between. Was it Putty and Cronk? There's. There's space there, but not. Not an infinite amount of space. And the space between Kronk and roles like that.
01:07:46
Case
Yeah.
01:07:47
J.
And the guy. He is in the Woman Chaser. It's like a. It's like another person.
01:07:51
Case
Oh, awesome. I will try to check that one out. I've got the tab open on Wikipedia now.
01:07:56
J.
If I didn't like, if it wasn't live action, if I didn't know that it was Patrick, I would argue that it wasn't.
01:08:03
Case
Cool. That is another thing for us to research. Meanwhile, things I'm not going to research this movie had spin offs. So there was Kronk's New Groove.
01:08:11
J.
I've seen it.
01:08:11
Case
Yeah. What are your thoughts on that one? Because I have not.
01:08:14
J.
It is. It's funny. I was going to bring that up because you suggested the Tarzan is three movies that are all relatively the short stitch to each other with pretty clear breaks in between them. And I don't disagree. Kronk's New Groove is three stories that of varying degrees of fun. They're all fun, but one of them is way more fun than the other two and I think the other two are less fun because the first one, the I actually think it's the middle story, I forget has heart like the Emperor's New Groove does. And it's funny. And the other two segments are just funny. They have much less heart. And I it's three stories that are stitched that are presented next to each other and then they kind of attempt to make a through line.
01:08:55
J.
And it doesn't line so much as sort of bump and crash and hardcore parkour down its way down the highway. And it's rough, but I liked it. Also, a lot of the voice acting is different.
01:09:09
Case
Yeah, that makes sense because it was a direct video sequel. And likewise they also did a cartoon that spun off for two years called New School. Again, these are things I'm probably not going to check out, but I might check out with my daughter. Who knows? I've watched Little Mermaid 2 in the.
01:09:24
J.
Last year, so I understand that straight to DVD tends to get a bad rap. But speaking of hot takes from Before Batman Return to the Joker, the uncut.
01:09:33
Case
Is oh well, that's not a hot take. That like that is a tepid take. That Batman, the Return of the Joker is a great movie.
01:09:40
J.
Oh, I wasn't gonna say great movie. I was gonna say greatest Batman movie ever made. Hard stop. Okay, but I, I it's the case I reach for people go blah blah. Made to do. Straight to dvd. Now hold one second because that one's really good.
01:09:55
Case
Well, that's why I put the qualifier Disney.
01:09:57
J.
Oh, right, yes, I missed that. Apologies. Yeah, I, I everyone I know tells me that was it Lion King One and a half is. Is it? One and a half is really good. Is that straight to dvd? I don't know.
01:10:10
Sam
Yeah, I think that was.
01:10:13
Case
A straight to DVD thing. Yes.
01:10:15
J.
And everyone I've ever met says it was great.
01:10:18
Case
I might have to check that out. I heard Cinderella 3 is really good.
01:10:21
Sam
Yes, I. So I heard that Cinderella 2 is. So my friend, she loves Cinderella. Cinderella is her favorite. She loves the Cinderella 1 movie. She does not like Cinderella 2, but she loves Cinderella 3. Like she raves about it. Next.
01:10:37
J.
Yeah, no kidding.
01:10:38
Sam
People on the Internet rave about it too. So it is. It does have a following of people who love Cinderella 3.
01:10:46
J.
And I was gonna say you started that sentence with friend really loves Cinderella. So I was gonna be like, bias. And then you were like, but she really hates the second one. Okay, never mind. Because you can be. You can be biased and critical. Like, I really love Spider Man. I'm really hard on Spider man content. You have to really try to get me to go, that was good. It was Spider Man.
01:11:04
Sam
Her love of Cinderella is what made her like, try to watch the follow ups. Right? And then she's like. But then like, she's just like, Sam, you gotta watch one and two to get to three. Like you gotta watch three.
01:11:19
Case
I'm surprised that she thinks that you need to watch two because my understanding is that three is a time travel story. And so I didn't know there was.
01:11:26
J.
A third one till this one.
01:11:27
Sam
I don't, I actually don't think I have to. I think she just wants me to watch two so I can talk about it with her.
01:11:33
J.
Yeah, I think it's.
01:11:35
Sam
I think it's more like she wants me to have the experience of having been rewarded with three after two.
01:11:44
Case
That's fair. That's fair with me. Yeah. My understanding, having not seen it, but my understanding of three was that it was like a. The, like the magic, the fairy godmother gets reversed or something kind of situation. And so Cinderella is no longer married to the prince.
01:12:01
Sam
Yeah, it's like some kind.
01:12:03
Case
Yeah, some kind of timey, wimey confusing thing. Anyway, not. Not the point. The point is there are some good directed DVD and there's certainly some good Disney directed dvd, but this franchise isn't really known for having the, like the stellar examples. I might check out Kron's New Groove just because I like Cronk a lot and he's a fun character. But it doesn't matter because this movie is surprisingly solid considering how much time went into not this movie. And how little time they had to make this actual movie. So I'm really glad that we had the chance to talk about this movie on this podcast. Jay, thank you for bringing this.
01:12:41
J.
You bet. Bronx New Groove manages to maintain much, but not all of its original voice talent, which is to say David Spade, John Goodman, Eartha Kit, Patrick Warburton, and Wendy Malik returned for the film. So if that does anything for you, that.
01:12:56
Case
Nice, Nice. Well, again, might check that out. But in the meantime, Jay, like I said, thank you for bringing this. Where do people know you? Like, I know you from our Discord. Your soul. Eye on the Discord, and we have lots of good conversations on there, but.
01:13:13
J.
Oh, thanks. I think so, too. I enjoy infuriating. Matt.
01:13:18
Case
Yes. People need to check out the CPOV Discord. It is such a great time.
01:13:23
J.
It's so much fun.
01:13:24
Case
Yeah, yeah.
01:13:24
J.
So good.
01:13:25
Case
There's so many wonderful members. And for people who are in the Discord, we. We chat with everyone there, and anyone who has a cool idea for an episode we're going to do. Definitely check out the Discord. You can find a link in our show notes or in the description, or if you go to. If you go to certainpov.com you can find a link to.
01:13:41
J.
Wait, wait. Whoa. You have a website?
01:13:44
Sam
Yeah.
01:13:45
Case
You're blowing my mind right now. The amount of conversations we've had about this show.
01:13:52
J.
Listen, listen. You've got a thing you like doing, and I like hearing about things people like doing.
01:13:58
Case
That's fair. That is fair.
01:14:00
J.
I'm gonna blow your mind a little bit more. I've never heard one of your episodes, and there's a very good chance I'm never going to, because my attention span. This is a podcast, right? When people hear this, they can hear it and not see it. Because I spent this entire show reminding myself to sit up straight for no reason. Listen. My attention span doesn't allow for that. I have never in my life made it through a podcast, no matter how entertaining it was, for more than 15 minutes. I just can't do it.
01:14:25
Case
That's fair.
01:14:26
J.
Like, so, on the one hand, I really love that you do this, and I'm happy to participate. And I have absolutely no context for people you're talking about or any of that. It's just a real joy to be a part of it.
01:14:39
Case
That's. That's wild. So, wait, what was the thing that brought you into our Discord? Because we've, like.
01:14:45
J.
Sorry, Books that Burn.
01:14:46
Case
Books that Burned. Yeah, yeah. No, Robin from Books that Burn.
01:14:49
J.
Because, like, two. Oh, no, hold on. Four years ago. Ish. Back when. When Twitter was still Twitter. Right. I. I make friends with somebody on Twitter, that person turns out to be a sibling of Books that Burn. That person and I rolled dice for, like. Well, we still are, like, four times a week. And I eventually bond with the rest of their family, which includes Books that Burn. I talked to Books for the record.
01:15:15
Case
Books that Burn is their show, and Robin uses that as, like, the handle on Discord. But. Yes, but we know that their name is Robin. Yeah.
01:15:23
J.
Yes, yes. I talk to Robin every day. Okay, so. And then Robin was like, hey, you like books, you like music, you like movies? Here's a podcast. Here's a Discord group you should be a part of. And I was like, oh, neat. And then I was a part of that, and here we are.
01:15:39
Case
Awesome. Well, then you should also check out Robin's appearance on. On this show, talking about bedknobs and broomsticks. But again, if you have a hard time listening to a podcast, hey, a.
01:15:47
J.
Movie I've actually seen.
01:15:48
Case
Fantastic.
01:15:51
J.
But I have recently discovered that you can either through the app you're listening to the podcast, the video through whatever, or a separate app if you have to go get it yourself, you can listen to things faster. I didn't know until, like, six months ago that you can watch YouTube on two times speed. Oh, boy, does that help.
01:16:07
Case
My podcast is all at 1.5 with the. With the silence is trimmed out.
01:16:12
J.
Okay.
01:16:13
Sam
With audiobooks, too.
01:16:15
J.
Yeah, yeah. Like, and then when my friends are over and I want to show them some video, whatever, I turn that off because they don't have as much ADHD as I have. And then I'm like, oh, my God, could you just go. Go faster, please. Anyway, so, yeah, that's how I ended up there. You asked earlier where people know me from. I have an account on Twitter still, but I locked it. I'm not using it for anything. I'm on Discord. I'm on Facebook for several reasons that I can't disconnect yet. And I am recently on Blue Sky.
01:16:51
Case
What is your handle on Blue Sky?
01:16:53
J.
Blue song. Like the bear. Rudyard would have you pronounce that with an R in it. And I don't. I don't like that.
01:17:01
Case
Okay, yeah, I'm already following you.
01:17:02
Sam
Good.
01:17:02
Case
I just was double checking on that.
01:17:04
J.
I don't like that at all. Like, I get it. If anyone gets to determine how the proper noun. How a character's name is pronounced in a work, they made, the person who gets to do that is the person who made the work. But the word Barlow bothers me.
01:17:18
Case
Like, what's like the gif Jif situation?
01:17:22
J.
Right, right.
01:17:23
Case
Yeah.
01:17:23
J.
Also, Mowgli.
01:17:29
Case
Anywho, thank you again for coming on. Thank you again for bringing this movie. It was great chatting with you and people should check you out on Blue sky and wherever else. But definitely check out our Discord because that's a great place to interact with us. It's even a great place to interact with Sam, but you have to tag her outside of Discord. Sam, where can people find you and follow you?
01:17:45
Sam
Here,.
01:17:47
J.
Here, here.
01:17:48
Sam
Yeah, every time these podcasts drop, they can find me here. And then I, I do lurk on the Discord. I look at people's comments. I don't always talk because I, I'm a lurker online. I'm. I'm. I'm introvertedly online, but I just don't want to be perceived. And so if you have any complaints about anything I said, especially if you like Case, are in the misconception that Tarzan is the best Disney movie of all time, you can reach him at.
01:18:20
Case
Well, you can find me on most social media platforms at Case Aiken, except for Instagram, where I'm holding on to my AIM screen name from high school for Dear Life, which is Quetzalcoatl5. Speaking of Mesoamerican stuff here. Hey, hey, yeah. Quetzalcoatl5. Q, U, E, T, Z, A L, C o, A, T, L5. And the 5 is because I was a Brainiac 5 nerd for Legion of Superheroes.
01:18:40
J.
I, for one, am stunned. Stunned, I tell you.
01:18:43
Case
I know, I know. The admission that I was a nerd and pretentious in high school is just so shocking to our audiences.
01:18:50
J.
Right. Like, I. Who even are you?
01:18:54
Sam
But.
01:18:54
Case
But like I said, you can find us and follow us on our Discord. You can find the link there in our show notes or at the website certainpow.com you could also check out the Patreon for this show. We've been running now for a little under a year, and it's been great having some support. We are doing all kinds of bonus content even at the free tier. So even if you just want to come and join the Patreon at the free tier, you'll get two essays a week that I write, one on a nerdy topic and one on a D and D topic every week. And then if you want to check out other things that are coming up from us from. From another past, from Men of Steel and from anything that's going up on the certain point of view. YouTube.
01:19:31
Case
We do sneak peeks on the Patreon for the paid tiers and if you are at the highest tiers at the executive producer levels, you get a shout out at the end of each episode. So we're going to give some shout outs right now to a bunch of wonderful people starting off with Micah Macaw, whose podcast the Macaw Podcast Universe has just ended. And I just want to give a shout out to them because they've been huge supporters, Micah and Jordan, of the show ever since we first connected talking about Teenage mutant Ninja Turtles 2 the Secret of the Ooze, and they've been awesome friends and I'm going to miss that show. So I'm just giving them a shout out right there. Carter Hallett, Sean Muir, Lee, Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Keith Lettinen.
01:20:12
Case
If you want to be listed off at the end of any episode, please consider joining our Patreon at the executive producer level. It is a wonderful way for to support the show and to keep things going. I got a baby coming in a few months, so I'm just gonna say that out loud. It's really helpful to have incentives to keep the show going at this point. Yeah, that's just the. And actually, because of podcast time, this is going to come out after the baby's born.
01:20:41
J.
I'm looking at the webs right now. It's lovely. Very cool.
01:20:44
Case
Yeah. So check out our Patreon, check out the website, check out the Discord, check out all those things and then come back for our next episode. Sam, what have we got going on next?
01:20:55
Sam
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening, but until then, if you enjoyed this, pass it on.
01:21:07
Case
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of View's Another Pass podcast.
01:21:11
J.
Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on itunes. Just go to certainpov.com Another pass is.
01:21:20
Sam
A certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sofia Richardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aker. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri and our outro theme is by Matt Brogan. Are you tired of watching your beloved characters being tortured by careless authors? Are you sick of feeling like they could have swapped out all of the painful action and the plot would remain untouched? Subscribe to Books that Burn, the Fortnightly Book Review podcast focusing on fictional depictions of trauma. We assume that the characters reactions are reasonable and focus on how badly or well they were served by their authors. Join us for our minor character spotlights, main character discussions, and favorite non traumatic things in the dark books we love. Find us on Spotify, itunes, Google Play or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:22:16
Case
CPOV certainpov.com.