KPop Demon Hunters Got Another Pass
This week on Another Pass, Sam and Case are joined by Katie DeMatteis and Ben MartinMooney to talk KPop Demon Hunters! As part of our “5th Episode” series, we celebrate a movie we genuinely enjoy while digging into the production challenges, creative swings, and behind-the-scenes hurdles that shaped this stylish supernatural spectacle.
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Another Pass Full Episode
Originally aired: May 8, 2026
Music by Vin Macri and Matt Brogan
Podcast Edited by Sophia Ricciardi
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PODCAST SHOWS: ▶ Another Pass - https://www.certainpov.com/another-pass-podcast
⏱️ YouTube Chapters — Another Pass #185: KPop Demon Hunters
00:00 – Case’s Oscar Disclaimer & Recording Time Warp
01:23 – Peppa Pig vs. KPop Demon Hunters
02:21 – Intro & Welcome to Another Pass
03:00 – Why KPop Demon Hunters Rules
04:02 – Halloween Costumes & Cultural Explosion
🎤 Why the Movie Connected
08:15 – The Music Absolutely Slaps
15:42 – Animation Style & Visual Identity
23:35 – Rumi, Selene & Emotional Payoff
25:20 – Sequel Hooks & Expanded Lore
25:50 – Should This Have Been a Miniseries?
👹 Production & Story Discussion
34:18 – Demon Lore & Worldbuilding
42:27 – Themes of Identity & Perfectionism
51:03 – Favorite Songs & Performance Moments
01:03:40 – The Movie’s Troubled Production History
01:18:55 – Why This Became a Phenomenon
🧠 Fifth Episode Territory
01:32:10 – What Actually Went Right Here?
01:45:44 – Comparing It to Other Animated Hits
01:56:08 – Final Thoughts & Golden Movie Status
🔚 Wrap-Up
02:04:19 – Patreon Shoutouts & Certain POV Plugs
02:06:39 – Next Episode: Highlander 2: The Quickening
Transcription
00:01
Case
Hey everyone, this is Case coming in before the episode to note that this episode was recorded like six months ago. Another pass is on a monthly schedule and has been ever since my first child was born. And as a result we get very far ahead of ourselves sometimes. And in this case with the movie K Pop Demon Hunters. Well, it was nominated and then won a bunch of Oscars in the interim between this episode being recorded and it coming out as an episode. And that is kind of a bummer. And we'll should explain why we don't mention it in anything in the conversation about this movie. It certainly would have come up if we knew that it was even on the table. Which like I said, this was before the nominations even occurred.
00:46
Case
So if you're wondering why we're praising this movie and saying like, wow, I can't believe they missed the mark on this wonderful project because this is a fifth episode. So we're talking about a movie that is good. In spite of a troubled production, the heights that it had soared had not even been reached at the point when we recorded this. It was just obvious that it was a lightning in a bottle kind of movie. Anyway, with that, it's still a great episode. We just didn't know that it was going to be an award winning movie that were talking about, not just a great movie. So on that note, enjoy.
01:23
Case
I have a curse now which is that every time I think a movie would be a great selection because I don't have to do a bunch of rewatches because my daughter's obsessed with it every single time. That is the kiss of death in terms of her actually wanting to watch it. So the second were getting close to wanting to like the last two weeks she's been so into Peppa Pig that. Which she was already into, but like she at least before was like, oh, I'll mix it up. I'll watch Moana. I'll watch like, I'll watch Frozen of a movie. Oh yeah, of course, you know, and K Pop Demon Hunters was in rotation. All of a sudden she's like just like laser focused on this one fucking cartoon.
01:59
Sam
I do have a personal beef with the pig though. We'll say I don't approve. She's rude. She is a rude.
02:06
Case
She is very rude. I actually.
02:08
Sam
He's very rude.
02:10
Case
I find that funny. But it is very interesting that the main character of the show is an extremely rude little girl. Anyway, enough gushing about my kids cartoon.
02:20
Ben
Is this a Peppa Pig episode?
02:21
Case
I know. Welcome to Certain POVs Another Pass podcast with Case and Sam. This week is a fifth episode. So we're talking about a movie that overcame adversity. Let's celebrate the creativity of the filmmakers. Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Another Past podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Sam Alicea. Hi, Sam. We are here for a fifth episode. So we are talking about a movie that is good and I am so excited to have the conversation.
02:57
Sam
It's not just good, it's golden.
03:00
Case
It's golden because today we are talking about K Pop Demon Hunters. And to have that conversation, we have returning guests. Katie DeMatteis.
03:07
Katie
Hello.
03:08
Case
And Ben Martin Mooney. Hello there, guys.
03:12
Katie
Thank you for.
03:13
Case
Yes.
03:14
Ben
I had to get it right. I said it and I was like, wait, that was wrong.
03:18
Case
I wasn't sure how to riff specifically on that one in this context. I couldn't figure out the Star wars to K Pop.
03:26
Katie
There's something, no, there's something there with the lightsabers and there's. Yeah, yeah, we can workshop it.
03:31
Case
Yeah, we can workshop that one. But what didn't need to be workshopped is this movie because God damn, I, I, I, I love this movie. This is, this is a fabulous addition to my repertoire of movies that I can have on that are just loaded with bangers that I don't really mind showing my little daughter and having her be obsessed with the K Pop demon hunter stuff.
03:54
Ben
This movie is a huge win for parents everywhere.
03:56
Case
Oh, my God. Yes.
03:58
Ben
I think the sort of like baseline thing that we can say about it.
04:02
Case
Yeah. So we're recording this in November of 2025 and I am curious question I'm going to open before we even get into a conversation about like, what we think about the movie. How many roomie and or other character Halloween costumes did you see this year?
04:16
Katie
So many. So many that I just knew personally, let alone the pictures of other people online and like on the street and I don't know, I would say upwards of 20 at least.
04:30
Sam
Yeah. And also even at like New York City ComicCon, there were so many callbacks and like, even like more obscure things like there was a Healer Khan walking around with a bobby, which I thought was funny. But yes, like everyone, like there were so many for so many people in costumes, Kids and adults.
04:52
Katie
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it for this year just like eclipsed everything else, especially because I think because it appeals to kids and adults equally. It has just, it has the market share in terms of what people. What people want to dress up as?
05:12
Case
Yeah. I saw tons of roomies, but my favorite was actually one of my daughter's classmates was dressed up as Abby. One of the Sasha boys.
05:18
Katie
Oh, hell yeah.
05:20
Case
And I was like, hell, yeah.
05:23
Katie
I've seen some crazy Sasha boys cosplay on the Internet.
05:28
Ben
Yes.
05:29
Katie
Like the demon form Sasha boys.
05:31
Sam
Yeah.
05:31
Katie
Really incredible.
05:32
Sam
A lot of that at Comic Con too. Like, a lot. I was actually standing behind some saja boys in demon costume for the bathroom, and there was like. Like a kid in front of me with her mom, and she kept looking up at them and like, kind of just like the soda pop dance, like, just moving her shoulders.
05:50
Ben
That's insane.
05:51
Sam
And they were, like moving it back there while they were waiting for the bathroom. It was.
05:55
Katie
I love that.
05:57
Case
Oh, that's fantastic. Yeah. Because this movie has hit really well with. With parents and with kids and with just the general demographic out there. It's a pop culture sensation. So it makes sense for us to have this conversation because this is a movie that almost wasn't. It didn't have any support behind its release. Netflix kind of stepped in and took over from Sony and actually made it a thing, which is just mind boggling to me.
06:24
Katie
A rare Netflix w. Yeah.
06:28
Case
So I guess the question I have for everyone here is how were you introduced to this movie?
06:35
Katie
What, you saw something on Instagram, Ben?
06:39
Ben
Yeah, I think I saw. You know what it was? It was. It was a clip of. It was a clip of someone covering golden.
06:47
Katie
Oh, that's. That is what it was.
06:48
Ben
It was this woman who's sitting, I don't know, in a recording studio somewhere, just absolutely belting while looking so casual. And I was like, okay, one, this song slaps, but two, you know, as like a former vocalist, someone who can hit these notes and is doing so while sitting down and looking totally nonchalant is just sort of unfathomably cool to watch. And so I was like, okay, well, what is this from? And I was like, okay, Kpop Demon Hunters. And then I think we'd also been told about it by, you know, friends. Yeah.
07:18
Katie
But I promptly forgot about that.
07:19
Ben
I also did.
07:21
Katie
Our friend likes to remind us that he told us about it several months before we watched it. And I have no recollection of being told that we had to watch it.
07:29
Ben
Yeah, I believe that there's written evidence that's the case.
07:32
Katie
I'm sure there is.
07:32
Ben
Truly flew the cooperation. And so then one afternoon we just, you know, I like, showed Katie the clip and I was like, hey, why don't we sit down? We've got a free afternoon. Let's just watch this movie. No expectations. What could. What could possibly go wrong? Little did we know that was all we were going to be singing for the next two or three months.
07:52
Katie
We've also watched it multiple times and we don't have kids. This is of our own volition.
07:58
Ben
Just, just a couple people in their 30s who are watching K Pop Dion Hunters.
08:04
Case
Well, I mean, that's totally fair. I mean that like my exposure to it was the word of mouth. Like it was a huge conversation point on an episode of the Verge Cast, which is really. Which is a tech show, like a gadget podcast. And they were discussing K Pop Demon Hunters. And I was like, okay, this is definitely becoming a thing. But it hadn't quite crossed our threshold just because weren't watching that much Netflix at the time. And then we had a family trip and my wife and her sister were like, you know what? Let's watch this movie that everyone's talking about. And they watched it and then immediately shared it with the rest of their families. And we decided that it was okay for our two year old daughter to watch. Now it is in constant rotation.
08:47
Case
A little less at the moment because my daughter is currently obsessed with Peppa Pig. But it, you know, it's part of the hyper fixation. It just, you know, ebbs and flows as that all goes. Sam, how about you?
08:59
Sam
I knew that this movie was coming because I am a fan of Twice who's on the soundtrack. And they promoted it really heavily. And because I'm on the K pop side of TikTok, there's a lot of buzz about this film. And it was also sent to me, like by a couple of people. I was like, oh, look at this thing. And I was like, oh, cool. And so I was really excited about seeing it. I watched it the first day it came out and then watch it several times afterwards. And I also don't have kids. I also went to the movie theater for the sing along with a couple of my friends.
09:35
Katie
Oh, we wanted to. We missed it. We weren't in town. But I, I don't blame you. That sounds so fun.
09:41
Sam
Yeah, my friend actually made me a sussy hat that I put on my hat furnished through the whole thing. It was very cute. And, and so yes, I, I basically was the worst. Now.
09:57
Ben
So what you're saying is they owe you some amount of finder fee.
10:01
Sam
They do, they do. Like they were like, we're gonna. We're going to pinpoint, like, just like these nerds who listen to this type of music and also love animation, which is me. So, like, right in my wheelhouse of the fenders that take my happy spot. And I was like, oh, yeah, I gotta watch this. And I basically told my two co workers and my best friend, I was like, we're going to watch this movie. I'm like, report back to me tomorrow. And so that's what happened. And then my coworker Danielle watched it like seven times in the first week,.
10:37
Ben
So that's so valid.
10:40
Sam
Yeah. So it was definitely do owe me something.
10:48
Case
Yeah. I think one thing that I find fascinating is that the. The fact that this is considered, like, okay for kids. Like, it's like, it's not just like in the family section on Netflix. It's in, like, if you go into the kids setting where it's like a really restricted list that's still at like the top of their list of movies right there. So it's just. It's for all ages, apparently, and has. Has really hit that sweet spot for. For just the world in such a fascinating way. So for. For the people who are not familiar.
11:24
Ben
With this movie, which is an insane thing to have to. I feel like everybody. I mean, I guess if you live.
11:30
Katie
Off the ground, chronically offline people.
11:32
Sam
Yeah.
11:33
Ben
Also, there are people who touch grass chronically.
11:35
Sam
I will be honest. There was a guy who was sitting next to me in this sing along who his friend clearly brought him.
11:42
Katie
And the whole time, that strong introduction.
11:45
Sam
Yeah. And so everyone's so singing along and he's like, oh, there. I don't know his songs. Why didn't you tell me before we came? Like, he was so upset that he wasn't prepared. And by the time he walked out, he was just like, if they do this again, we're coming back. Right. Because I want to be able to sing along.
12:04
Katie
Well, at least. At least he was made into a fan that day.
12:07
Ben
I have a lot of respect for that guy.
12:10
Sam
Me too.
12:11
Ben
I see that I've missed out on this. And also, I shan't make that mistake again.
12:16
Sam
I joined in the clapping on select. So, like, we got the finale and he was. This is amazing.
12:23
Case
Nice. Sam, since this is such your wheelhouse, could you give a synopsis of this movie?
12:30
Sam
Sure. Oh, my gosh. Usually you do this, and now I'm like, what? Basically the premise is that there is a demon who basically collects like, souls of people, kind of really the devil, but someone who, like, Entices you with doing things that are like, not necessarily the right thing. And this comes from like old, ancient, like Korean lore. So this is like not a completely made up character. Although, you know, he's specific to this movie. And so Guima has a bunch of souls and he's been trying to really like, take over. And he's. He's insatiable. He really loves eating all the souls. And since the, you know, beginning, or at least feudal times in Korea, there have been these hunters who are, through voice and through song, basically connect people and connect hearts to keep them happy and whole. And it's always Hunters 3.
13:36
Sam
And every generation has these three girls, these three women that basically protect everyone, creating the Honmoon and basically stopping Guima from being able to eat all of the world up with his darkness. And that's how it begins.
13:55
Case
Yes. And, and then in the movie itself, like, this generation is so close to finally what they say, sealing the Han Moon. Making it.
14:06
Sam
Sealing the Han moon.
14:07
Case
Yes. Yeah. Making it resonate with a golden frequency that it seems that they are unstoppable, that this girl group in this current age is this modern, super huge K pop group akin to a. Twice in that scenario.
14:24
Sam
Yeah. And when they seal the Han moon, they'll cut off imods like ability to access the human world. Right. So like.
14:34
Case
Right.
14:34
Sam
People will be safe forever. And Gwima is losing because Huntrix is awesome and they're superstars and they fight all the time. And then one of demons that have been damned a long time has a wonderful idea to kind of fight fire with fire, but through song, through play pop.
14:59
Case
Right? Yeah. And so we get a demon boy band.
15:03
Sam
Yeah. Which is great. So funny when they do the pros. One of my favorite lines is when they're like really? Like a boy band and then they're posing like there's a guy's like, oh, yeah, it's gonna work. I love that.
15:18
Case
Yeah. Oh yeah. 100% Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then this also creates the situation where we find out that the girl group, despite their facade of being this implacable, unstoppable demon killing, but at the same time, banger after banger generating group, that there is a little bit of secrets going on in there. Specifically that the lead girl actually is half demon.
15:46
Sam
Oh my God. Spoilers.
15:47
Ben
Wait, what? I missed that part.
15:52
Sam
And this gives us an opportunity too, because Rumi has been hiding her secret and it's affecting how she feels about herself and her ability to sing, which is what they need to close, you know, the honmoon and to protect everyone. And she's actually hoping that she can do it as quickly as possible so that she can, like, really get rid of this part of herself that she hates and that she's been taught isn't acceptable. This is what's really great for the value for kids and learning, acceptance and accepting all of you. And she likes to rush into things but get sick and.
16:34
Case
Yeah.
16:35
Sam
Then there's a love story and a wonderful concert at the end.
16:42
Katie
Yeah.
16:42
Case
So I think we nailed all the things. One thing we should emphasize, this is a musical. And a musical loaded with just hit.
16:51
Katie
After hit, like bangers. Every single song is.
16:55
Case
Every single one. It's so good. Everyone is an earworm and every earworm you're not mad about.
17:03
Katie
Yes.
17:04
Sam
Yeah. The songs are. Yep. I was just gonna say that the songs are so well crafted and so intentional, you know, and in terms of, like, how they fit in the moment, like, the creator, Maggie actually said that she wanted Soda Pop to sound kind of soulless and just sound really catchy, kind of empty. And, like, when you think about it really does. And so the writers, all the different writers who wrote on this, especially ej, did a wonderful job with all their different parts and all the different songs that kind of bring the story to.
17:37
Katie
Life and tell the story is incredibly intentional. I've watched a couple different breakdowns of, like, the. The sequencing of notes and, like, the choices that are made lyrically, and it. It's all so intentional and so well done.
17:53
Ben
Also, for folks who aren't familiar with K pop, it's a great way to be introduced.
17:58
Katie
A gateway to K pop. Would you say?
18:01
Ben
No, I wouldn't.
18:02
Katie
Okay.
18:03
Ben
I would not say that.
18:04
Katie
All right, fine.
18:06
Ben
But, you know, like, if. If you're unfamiliar, it's, I think, as good an introduction as you can get in terms of getting within the larger genre, different styles of music, and then being able to say, like, okay, now you're familiar with some sort of, like, some sort of a bass line. If you enjoyed this, you're probably going to just enjoy K pop as a genre, generally speaking.
18:32
Sam
Yeah. And definitely.
18:33
Case
Great.
18:34
Sam
Yeah. There were people online who were like, oh, you liked this song? Here are 10 songs that are very similar. Similar to it. And there were lists of songs that EJ wrote for other groups because she's a K pop, you know, writer, songwriter. And so there was like, oh, yeah, check out this song from aespa. Check out this song from, you know, like, Red Velvet. And, like, so people are Going back. And so, yeah, it is a good way. I'll say it. I agree.
19:01
Katie
Thank you. I appreciate you.
19:05
Case
Yeah. Oh, sorry, Ben.
19:07
Ben
I was gonna say, as somebody who likes to follow earworms down the rabbit hole, that sort of communal sharing of information is so lovely. Right. To be like, okay, you liked that. Perfect. Here's four playlists that are 20 hours long to satisfy every itch that you have discovered that you now have as a result of this movie.
19:30
Sam
Right.
19:30
Ben
And I think the sort of communal aspect of it, you know, we sort of touched on it a little bit in terms of the fact that whether or not you have kids is sort of irrelevant to whether or not you like the movie and the way that it's sort of eclipsed every other costume this year. There is this interesting sort of cultural acknowledgment of the movie, and I feel like you don't see that happen that often, particularly with things that are musical, but just generally it's unusual to see something sort of have that much of a chokehold on. Not gonna say everybody, because obviously there are some people out there who don't enjoy it, although I can't imagine why.
20:07
Case
But the zeitgeist as a whole.
20:09
Ben
Yeah. You know, people are. People are into it. People are about it. And it's. It's just. It just has permeated every part of. I mean, certainly every part of my algorithm shoot.
20:19
Katie
And I also think that the. The music makes the movie like, this isn't it? And this is not a dig against the. The story at all. But I. Without the music, I think it would be a pretty vanilla animated movie show, whatever it was. But with the music, I think, like, that is the thing that elevates it from, like, fun to great.
20:46
Case
Yeah, absolutely. That. I mean, that's why I say, like, it's a musical. Like, it's not. Like, so much of the story is told, and like, the. The. The inner truths of the character are told by way of music. If you strip that out, like, you would. You'd barely have a movie.
21:02
Katie
Yeah, yeah.
21:03
Sam
I would say that it's. You know, there are some musical movies, and I'm not. I'm not gonna talk about which, but there's some musical movies where it feels like the songs are just more pop songs and they could be anywhere. But this song, this movie, because it is so intentional, right? Like, it really informs everything. Like, this is actually better than some of those that have come out recently.
21:32
Case
Oh, for sure. Like, yes, this is a great gateway into K pop as A genre, but it's also such a love letter to the genre and is used so well and so elegantly in telling the story of these characters.
21:51
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
21:52
Case
Like, I, I, I, I'm just flabbergasted at the, at how strongly composed the piece is as a whole. Every time I look at it's, it because it's short. It's such a fast movie. And at the same time, we get, we get so much emotion, we get so much backstory for characters. You know, things like golden, for example, which just emphasizes all the stuff that they like, sped run the exposition at the beginning of the movie. Golden, like, just makes you feel it in a way that you' understand Meera and I understand Zoe so much better than I would have if it was just, like I said, just a little bit of exposition at the top.
22:31
Katie
I would have loved a little bit more time. And I understand that it's anakin movie and you only get so much time, but to explore some of that history and also explore the backstories of the other two Huntrix members, because I feel like there definitely was a lot there when they wrote it. And I've even seen some like deleted scene concepts of how they explored those narratives a little bit more deeply. But, like, I wish they would have just added an extra 20 or 30 minutes and done it. And I'm sure that wasn't, you know, I'm sure that if the creators had their druthers, they would have been able to do that. And I imagine there was, you know, it has to be X amount of time, but I just, I don't think it would have lost anything for being a little bit longer.
23:17
Sam
Yeah, I actually felt that I was a little disappointed. Not necessarily. I mean, I love the other characters too. I love Mia and Mira a lot. But I think I would have really liked to see more of like, Celine actually, because, like.
23:35
Case
Yeah, because she's like a famous singer herself.
23:38
Sam
Right. But like, I think also it the end moment. Right. And I know that this is like a big kind of running theme because this also happened in Turning Red. You know, there's a theme of, you know, within the Asian community, the feeling that parents want you to be perfect. Right. And Celine was like, I tried to love you. And so, like, this is like this, like, very emotional moment of, like, you know, I do love you, but all of me, I tried. Right. Like, this is such a disappointing thing and it does land, but it would have been nicer to see a Little more of the. Of the two of them interacting a little more of that. Like wanting to please her. We know. And the movie infers that is there.
24:22
Sam
But I think because they ended up cutting some of her storyline because they had more planned for her as well. I feel like that's the one place where like I was like, oh, I really wish we had more of that because there can always be like prequel, you know, for the ladies before. But I, I think in the moment I wanted to see more of their relationship. We really only got like a scene her basically like two scenes of her basically always telling her to hide who she was.
24:56
Katie
Yeah.
24:56
Sam
And so I, I think the movie does itself just like a little disservice by like, so like Lea Salon was her voice. So like it would have been nice to have her do another song saying.
25:07
Case
Like, this is like a voice is that little rhyme, you know?
25:11
Sam
Yeah, that's it.
25:12
Case
It's insane.
25:13
Sam
So I'm just like, oh, this feels like a missed opportunity. Like.
25:20
Case
I will say that in terms of it being a movie that's like teasing a lot of stuff and then like giving us the potential for sequels, especially given how big of a hit. Like it's not the worst approach in the world because it leaves us wanting more and I think satisfies enough. Like you get enough of the story. Like there's a lot of interesting, like little subtext things that are in this movie. Like for example, Zoe, who is established as being American. Like she never raps in Korean in the entire movie.
25:49
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
25:50
Katie
I think my semi hot take is that it might have worked better as a miniseries versus a movie because you could have kept the episodes tight. You could have explored all of the things we talked about a little more. Selene's backstory, Zoe's, Mira's. Even a little bit of that historical context around the Hunters. And it wouldn't have felt super long because you could do it in bite sized segments. And even the intro to me, I said this to Ben feels like the intro to a TV show when it zooms underground and it says K Pop Demon Hunters. Yeah, that feels very television to me. And I could have seen it working really well as a miniseries.
26:32
Sam
I did see an interview where the creators did say that originally they had wanted to kind of shit as a miniseries. So originally in the original concept that was behind it, but they ended up like Sony wasn't really interested in that. It was more interested in a film. And so they had to go where the investor was so like, who wants to help us make this? So they kind of streamlined it to make a movie. But originally there was thoughts of making it into, like a series because I believe it's Kupo and the Beats. That's, you know, not Maggie, but her husband actually made that series that's on Netflix. And so they're not as a couple. It's two people who make stuff. They're not strangers to miniseries or series of animation, but it just.
27:28
Sam
We couldn't find funding for it to be made into anything other than a.
27:32
Katie
Movie, which, you know, at the end of the day, it's still an incredible piece of art. But it is sad to think about the things that don't get made in the medium or, you know, even made at all because of big corporations and money.
27:49
Case
Yeah. Which plays into like the. The longer story of this movie, you know, almost getting buried again. The rare Netflix win. Before we pivot too much from the music stuff, because I. I very much enjoying this little tangent into a key element of the. Of the movie. I want to go down the soundtrack and I just kind of want to talk about each of these songs because I think they're just really good.
28:13
Katie
Such a fun idea. I love that.
28:16
Case
Like, and it's rare that we have a movie musical where, like, it just. Where I just want to talk about each song for a minute there. Just because they're fucking great. So I've got the soundtrack list open here. So we're obviously going to start with how it's done, which is the opening number of the. Of the movie. I recently tried to slip this track into a social media post I did for my day job and was vetoed on that one, which is dumb. I know. I'm still so mad about that because it went so goddamn hard on this. The social media post about a drinking event, which I felt was good.
28:50
Katie
I felt like it was very on brand and as someone who works in marketing, what I say is loss.
28:57
Case
But yeah. So how it's done. We. We.
28:59
Katie
It.
28:59
Case
It kicks off. They're. They're supposed to be at their concert. They're running late because they've been diverted by demons. And they. It is a fight song while at the same time an introductory song to this group. I like. It's such a banger. It's. It goes so hard.
29:16
Ben
It's so. It's so freaking good.
29:17
Case
Does such a great job of setting up, like, character moments for them. I. I love. I love the fight choreography when we first are. Are introduced to the girls and like how Their different fighting styles kind of work. Like Zoe, like, being the grappler getting in there and Mira, just like pummeling.
29:32
Ben
A demon and then like whipping out a glaive.
29:35
Case
Yes.
29:35
Ben
Which is just delightful. Yeah. It's also the use of more traditional animation styles for the facial expressions throughout, which is also extremely funny in the way that they sort of will interject it for a brief moment and then.
29:49
Katie
They do that entire movie.
29:50
Ben
They also do that throughout the rest of it, but it's sort of your first experience with it. Yeah. A lot of fun. Also, the instrumentation is wonderful.
29:59
Katie
Yeah.
30:00
Sam
Yeah.
30:01
Case
And we. We have to shout out the, like, the viral line of this number, which is the. The fit check for my napalm era.
30:11
Ben
I can't wait to hear that when this comes out. I mean, it's.
30:19
Katie
The rapping is also so good. Fantastic.
30:23
Ben
Yeah.
30:24
Katie
In specifically this song.
30:26
Case
Yeah. It's such a cool number. It's got a great beat for a fight. And so it opens up with that sort of. We're establishing, like, what this movie is because they're on a plane, they fight demons, the plane falls apart, and then they crash land into their concert and just like pick up the microphones and continue the number undeterred.
30:47
Katie
And I also enjoy the audience commentary. Like, wow, the special effects are so good.
30:52
Sam
Yeah.
30:54
Ben
When you hit that guy with the knife and he exploded into confetti and they're like, yep, that was special effects. All confetti. Also, they stop and they finish their ramen before hopping out of the plane, which, you know, you got to respect. You got to respect making sure that you're.
31:08
Case
You're.
31:08
Ben
You're fueled up for a concert.
31:10
Sam
Yeah.
31:11
Case
Yep. I also love that right before the number starts, they tell their manager that they'll be at the concert in three minutes and it's at like 2 minutes and 50 seconds that they actually, like, land.
31:19
Katie
Attention to detail is a beautiful thing.
31:22
Ben
Yes, it is.
31:23
Sam
It tells you so much about them. They're very punctual. It's down to a science, really. Like, the girls are professional. They are professional.
31:33
Case
Yep. Yeah. So just great establishing moments for the characters. Like, we get all the stuff that we need to know about the outward dynamic. We don't get the demon stuff for Rumi yet. There's only so much you can establish.
31:47
Katie
It also does a really great job of just like, setting the foundation of demons aren't really an issue for these three girls in general, so that as you get further into the plot and they begin to struggle with what they're fighting the stakes feel like they're there and that you understand the scope in which this has increased in danger because they're on an airplane that falls in half. They kill every demon and still get to the concert. And then later on, they are, you know, on the brink of defeat. And you can. You can see how, you know, they got from point A to point B.
32:26
Sam
Right. And also, wonderfully, because we talked about the confetti, it also establishes how the world, like the rest of the world, sees the demons.
32:34
Katie
Yes.
32:35
Sam
Yeah. You know, and so, like, that. That makes it really important because it sets up the parameters of different. Like, what this reality is for the viewer in all different directions. It gives such a good explanation, like this opening scene of what this world is actually like.
32:56
Ben
And they do a wonderful job of calling back to that later on when the girls are looking out the window and you can see the reflection of the hanmoon being broken in some places. And Bobby's like, well, at least it's not the end of the world he can't see. And I thought that was such a good use of reflection versus what he sees, having already established that at the beginning of the movie. Yeah. They do a really nice job of tying all the things together really beautifully.
33:21
Case
Yeah. This song, like, what you're saying, helps us understand that they can see the Han moon in a way that no one else can. And that's such economic in storytelling.
33:33
Katie
Yeah.
33:34
Sam
They're literally showing you how it's done. Yeah.
33:38
Katie
You don't say. That's crazy.
33:41
Case
Why don't we move on? So I'm gonna skip the ones that aren't actually, like, numbers in this. So, like, they play strategy by twice following this number, but it's like. It's transition music, basically.
33:50
Sam
Yeah.
33:51
Case
The. The next big number is golden, which is the. For lack of a better term, the break. Well, they're all such bangers. But, like, golden is the one that I see the most Instagram videos of.
34:03
Ben
I feel like it's the flagship song.
34:05
Katie
Yeah. Which I was actually surprised, I will say. The first time we watched felt like the kind of song that you would hear in the finale. And it happened so early in the film that I was like, how are they going to like, what's the finale song going to be? How are they going top this?
34:22
Ben
They did a great job.
34:24
Sam
Golden is such a uniquely song. Golden is technically the classic I want song. So it's actually perfect where it is. Right. Because even though she's saying what she is, this is actually aspirational for Rumi because she doesn't necessarily believe that she's golden yet. Right. So this is like, this is basically part of your world. This is the classic I Want song. This sets up, like, where Rumi's mindset is, like, where she wants to be. She wants to have a golden hon Moon. She wants to accept the responsibilities that have been thrust upon her. And she wants to show everyone that she can handle that. And, like, that's why this is such a, like, perfect song and why people, I think, connect to it so much.
35:16
Sam
Because generally, usually the I Want song in a musical is the most popular song that comes out of a musical because it usually carries really the kernel of truth for the character that's going to carry you through the plot line. So, like, this is like, that's why golden resonates so much with people. And because it's not a clear, like, I want this, I want that. It tricks you because it just sounds like a great, like, K Pop anthem song. I think it is really a Nawat.
35:51
Katie
Song because of the conceit of the music competition at the end, I was expecting. Which isn't to say that the song at the end isn't a banger. We'll get to that later. But I was expecting the song that was the most musically evocative to be saved for the end. Not necessarily. And you're right, it's a perfect I Want song, but also is just one of the easiest to listen to. So I was expecting that song was. Or that type of song was gonna be the type of song that was at the end, to quote unquote, like, win the competition to defeat the demons to seal the Han Moon. But it ended up working better the way that it's set up in the movie. And it kind of subverted what my expectations musically were for that piece.
36:42
Case
Yeah. One thing that is interesting about this movie is that they replay songs a few times. Specifically this. And Takedown, we get quite a bit of. And soda pop, I guess we get a bunch in the background. So it. Because they're pop songs and they're earworms that play a lot. And so one thing I find fascinating is how they recontextualize the song depending on where it falls in the movie. Because when it first shows up, as I mentioned, this is a song that reiterates the exposition that we got at the beginning about the three girls in the form of the song. They talk about their supposed background problems that they've had.
37:13
Case
But then where it really turns into an I Want song is at the end, where we find out that there's, like, this greater contact or greater subtext that Rumi has not shared with everyone. The demon stuff specifically here. And then it's when it's being used later, it's. It's as like, a cover, you know, it's the facade that she's trying to put on. It's like that she wants everything to be golden, even though she knows that underneath it all, like, she has this, like, greater, like, conflicted feelings at that point. And I find it amazing that you can have the same song just mean something so different depending on where it falls in the movie.
37:50
Katie
Yeah. And I think it's interesting, too, because were talking about the lack of exposition for, like, Mira and Zoe. Really the only exposition we get about their backstories is in Golden.
38:01
Case
Well, we get the, like, the fans talking about their backstories at the beginning. And then we get a little bit at, like, when they kind of come back together, not at the very end of the movie, but, like, when they come back together before going into performing golden, where it's just like, where. Where they each mention the things that are sort of, like, the superficial details about them. Like Mira being like, I'm kind of, like, hard to be around. I'm a problem child. Yada, yada. And. And Zoe being like, I. I was torn between two worlds. Like, I don't think that they're very complex like, in this movie, but I do think that they do. The movie does a lot of. With the surface trait to layer them interesting ways. Like, I mentioned the. Zoe only raps in English because she's American.
38:43
Case
Part of it. Or the way that Mira is the most physical of them in the dance sequences because she is the choreographer for the group.
38:51
Katie
Yeah.
38:51
Case
Why don't we move on to soda pop?
38:53
Sam
What a soda.
38:55
Ben
What a. Just a gem of a song.
38:59
Case
It's so goddamn catchy. And what I love is that everyone knows that it's catchy. Like, the movie knows that it's catchy. It's catchy on purp. And it's. And it's supposed to be, you know, this, like, saccharine, sweet thing that. Not like. Not like overly sweet, like a love song kind of thing.
39:15
Sam
No, but saccharine's perfect because it's artificial sweetener.
39:19
Katie
Yeah, Right.
39:21
Ben
It's the stevia of songs.
39:24
Katie
But it's so good. Like, even though I know that it is not musically complex and I know that it is not great composition or great writing, I still want to listen to it.
39:37
Sam
Yeah.
39:38
Katie
Yeah, I guess.
39:41
Ben
Yeah. I think it's the hallmark of great composition. Yeah.
39:44
Sam
Right. Yeah.
39:45
Katie
Great is. Great is the wrong word. Complex.
39:47
Ben
The song is no more than exactly what it needs to be.
39:50
Katie
Right.
39:50
Ben
Like, they even. They even give you easy enough choreography that as a viewer, there is something that you can do without training to bop along, just like they do in the movie. And it is very aware, which I think is great. Like, oh, your kids are going to be listening to this forever. Well, at least you can all do something with your shoulders and feel like you're part of it.
40:12
Katie
And it's also intentionally accessible and intentionally meant to draw people in and to give them something that they can do because of the goals of the Sasha boys. So it works on multiple levels.
40:27
Ben
It makes you part of the. Almost part of the. The fandom or the movie. As. As you're.
40:32
Katie
Join the movie, they say, yeah, join the. Join the movement, literally.
40:38
Ben
Is it. Join the pride.
40:39
Katie
Don't they say join the movement too?
40:41
Ben
Is it. Is it the movement later?
40:43
Katie
Yeah, yeah, they say both.
40:45
Ben
Okay, cool.
40:46
Sam
It is funny because definitely there were people online after the movie was on. Was like, well, I know that I would be dead. I would totally. Yeah, I would. Into both of those songs. I would definitely be a Sacha Boy fan, and I would be dead. I was like, wow.
41:06
Katie
Well, there's also a sort of piece of this, which is that at least. Oh, my God, what is his name? Help lead. Saja Boy.
41:14
Sam
Oh, Jinu.
41:15
Katie
Jinu, at least. So there's this component which is that Ginou, at least out of them, is genuinely a musician. Right? Like, he's genuinely someone who wants to produce music, who. Like that, like, music is his passion. So there's that level too, where it's like someone finally getting to live out this dream that they've had for, I don't know, decades.
41:39
Sam
Centuries.
41:40
Katie
Centuries.
41:40
Sam
Centuries.
41:42
Katie
Yeah, centuries. Not decades. That's the wrong measure of time. But there's this weird sort of actualization of an undeath goal that's happening as well.
41:55
Ben
I also love that for generations, the hunters have used music as a means of controlling the demon threat. And it has taken this long for someone to finally go, hey, what if we just did that back?
42:12
Sam
Right?
42:12
Ben
And then to watch how completely unprepared they are for the threat of more music. Yeah. Hot boy. Yeah, Abs.
42:23
Case
This is a good moment to bring up the different Sasha boys because we referenced Jinu. I love that we get very economically. Like all of the Sasha boys, they have a trait and a name associated with it. So we get Abby, who is known for his abs. We got romance, who probably has the least going on in terms of stuff. They do a really good job of romance having very empathetic kind of facial expressions. And romance is one. The one who does like kisses and the hearts like fly off.
42:52
Sam
His hair is also shaped like a heart.
42:54
Case
Yes, yes. Then there's mystery who also doesn't get a lot going on in this but.
43:00
Sam
Has the benefit of mystery.
43:02
Case
Exactly. Being a mystery.
43:04
Katie
Is there any. And not in the movie, but. Okay, sorry, I'm just laughing at this. But is there any sort of lore around them that has been released or talked about in any capacity or is it really just what you see in the film?
43:22
Case
I've seen analyses of them, but I haven't seen anything that's like official canon lore kind of stuff.
43:28
Sam
Yeah.
43:29
Case
And then the last of them is Baby Sasha who's the rapper of the group, which I find very fun.
43:34
Ben
With the very deep voice.
43:36
Case
Yes, very deep voice. And in contrast with Zoe raps quite a bit in Korean.
43:41
Katie
Yeah.
43:41
Case
Which is a fun detail. One thing I saw as a sort of breakdown was them as like obviously archetypes of boy bands is part of it but also specifically toxic masculinity traits. So Ginu is sort of the. The synthesis of all of them. But we've got physicality, we've got sort of romantic side of it, the. The mystery side of it and then the infantilization of toxic masculinity in there, which I thought was very interesting.
44:06
Sam
Well yeah, but I don't know if that's. Well, K pop fans have also kind of broken this down too as to be kind of like talking about the K pop industry itself. So basically like. Because a lot of the times the groups are very manufactured. Right. And sometimes they'll even tell people that they have to have a specific personality. So a lot I've seen breakdown from fans like talking especially about Baby as there is a lot of influence that happens in the K pop industry. Like pop idols are often asked to shave their armpits and be hairless. Even like the guys because like hair of any kind, you have to be clean shaven. You can't grow a beard.
44:54
Sam
So there is like a very like, you know, there are a lot of fans that kind of like look at that stuff and like kind of say yeah, there's a couple of things that they personally felt like looked like call outs of the industry and like the ills of the industry kind of putting people in boxes and, you know, that kind of thing. And over sexualizing them like you would do with Abby, and you know, just used to like, yeah, go ahead, look at my abs. It's fine. And so I have seen people online kind of, again, not canon based, like, this is not anything that the creators have stated that this is, like, the truth. And I probably just, like, looked at people and was like, oh, yeah, we got to have some guy with abs. Because there's.
45:40
Sam
In every group, there's at least one person who's going to have abs and take off their shirt. And like Felix from Stray Kids, it looks very ethereal and he has a very deep voice. So a lot of those fans are like, yeah, that's probably based on him because he freaks everyone out with his deep voice because he looks like a Fae. And so, like, you know. So, like, I do think that there is something possibly there because it's not. You know, there are people that are seeing this and kind of like, connecting those dots. It's not out of the realm of them.
46:15
Katie
It's also interesting juxtaposed to. Again, to go back to Mira and Zoe and how they are not particularly, like, fleshed out, but when you juxtapose them to the not fleshed out Saja boys, you have these two women who have overcome something and are using art to talk about that, versus these very archetypal, soulless, sort of products of the music machine, so to speak. So despite the fact that on both sides, you don't get a ton of backstory and a ton of context, they still juxtapose each other in this incredibly stark way, which, again, you see in the music and you see in terms of even, like, the way that they interact publicly with fans and with the press and that sort of thing.
47:02
Sam
Yeah. Even how they act when they're no longer. I thought, actually this is like, a really nice touch in the animation when the Saja boys, like, when they're on, like, in front of people, humans that they want to impress, they all stand up straight. But a lot of times when they're walking away, they're kind of hunched over, kind of like zombies. Zombies walking away.
47:21
Ben
Like, oh, this is much so slouchy.
47:23
Case
Yeah.
47:24
Sam
Yeah. So I don't think that's like.
47:25
Case
Well, they have, like a demon look. Like, just. Just to back you up, Sam. Like, when they're in their demon form in. In the underworld, they all have this, like, slouchy kind of design and they're. Yeah. Like when. When they come off stage after doing the signing and they all have, like, flowers. Each one drops a flower and then immediately goes in hunch mode.
47:43
Sam
Yeah. Finally comfortable.
47:47
Ben
Yeah. Like when you take your shoes off at the end of a long day and you're like, oh, this is the best. It's like, clearly that moment of release where they're like, yes. No longer do I have to pretend to give two craps about any of these people.
47:59
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
48:01
Ben
Can we swear on this show?
48:03
Case
Oh, yeah, of course.
48:04
Ben
Two shits about any of these people.
48:06
Case
Two tubs of a dead dog's cock.
48:08
Katie
And to that point, the Huntrix girls love their fans so much that they cannot take a break from creating music because of the love for their fans.
48:19
Sam
Right.
48:20
Case
Yeah, right there.
48:21
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
48:22
Katie
And I mean, I, I, these aren't, like, you know, subtle things. Like, these are very clear juxtapositions that exist on the surface of the movie. I'm not, like, tapping into something crazy right now.
48:32
Sam
Right.
48:33
Case
Yeah, no, it's very on point. Like, the whole thing with the Sasha boys is like, they are supposed to be this manufactured boy band group that is soulless and actually drains the creativity from the people around them, in contrast with the girls who are trying to inspire everyone and make everyone feel good in a way that protects you from your inner demons. Why don't we move on to Takedown, which is the Hunt tricks response to the boys.
48:58
Sam
Oh, wait one moment. Before we move on, I just want to say, because this is like, I actually really loved this such intentional soundtrack. And because came just before Sotopap when they play Love maybe, which is just a Korean song. That song was in a Netflix show, which was a show that the person who voices Jinu was the star of K drama that he was the star of. And they purposely used that in the introduction with classic, like, K drama in production because they, like, he knocks into her and usually, like, that's the meet cute. And they, like, reach out a hand and pick her up. And like, that's always like, one of the tropes in K dramas. But then of course, he's just like, I love that they use that.
49:47
Sam
Because for people who, like, watch K dramas and know the voice actor, that was like, a really big treat for them. And so put on the soundtrack all the way around, even with the background music.
50:00
Case
Yeah, I love that. I didn't know that specific context, but I still got the vibe of the scene that was.
50:05
Katie
What I was just about to say was that you don't need to know that for the subversion of the trope to read Perfectly.
50:10
Sam
Right. It just adds like a little Easter egg for people who know.
50:15
Katie
Yeah.
50:16
Sam
It was actually a pretty popular show on Netflix in terms of like K drama watchers tied in with Netflix. So cool branding.
50:26
Ben
I feel like I've seen enough, you know, like telenovelas to know that from just other kinds of like, similar media. Right. But it's. Yeah, that's. That's amazing. Also, I think I feel like the, like, tagline to this movie is that attention to detail pays off in the long run.
50:41
Sam
Yes.
50:42
Ben
Like things like tying in previous work of the voice actor or you know, when you say, we'll be there in three minutes and then they land just before that three minute mark. Like there is so much of that throughout the movie. Movie where you're getting these little things that they then deliver on in some way. And I think that is one of the things about the movie that is the most satisfying is you kind of walk away from being like, okay, cool. You really did tie up all the things that you needed to tie up and then things that I didn't even know.
51:10
Katie
Well, that's a sign of good art. Right. You don't need to get every single little thing to enjoy it, but when you start to dig in and start to uncover them, it just makes it better.
51:20
Case
Yeah. Yeah. It's a very media literate piece.
51:23
Katie
Yes.
51:23
Case
Yeah. Now it's time for a takedown. Take down. Take down.
51:29
Katie
Honestly, some of the worst lyrics in the whole movie, and I hate to say that, but the lyric writing for this song just grinds me the wrong way.
51:39
Ben
We've had a number of conversations about that.
51:41
Case
Yeah. I mean, this is the other song that gets like a real difference of context because it's played three major times and has sort of a different vibe for each time, even though there isn't any sort of fundamental change in like the delivery of things. And then gets the. Then gets to be the credit song with twice performing it at the end.
52:00
Sam
Yeah.
52:01
Case
So, yeah, I mean, the. The lyrics are very on the nose and it's fun, like watching the girls, like kind of conceive of lines as. As we go and then seeing how they actually translate into the song form where it's just like, how about a demon with no feelings doesn't deserve to live? So obvious. And then like, that actually like turns into like a fairly good lyric. So I. I think that's fun. And it's. It's a really. It's used really well as the montage for like the. The escalating conflict between the hunt Tricks and the Sasha boys. And then for when Rumi is having her own moment of doubt on the train fight. It's used while there, but has this sort of, like, this different kind of this feeling of trying to avoid saying vibe every single time. Like, where.
52:46
Case
Where she falters and where the other team picks up the slack is really interesting. And then it's used as a betrayal song in the, like, earn the Idol Awards where it's just. It's just Mira and Zoe in, like, the demon avatars pretending to be them and makes it so aggressive and it turns into a breakup song.
53:03
Sam
Yeah.
53:04
Katie
You know, I was. I just ragged on the lyrics of this, but I do wonder if it's not also a bit intentional.
53:11
Ben
Yes.
53:12
Katie
In the sense of, like, this isn't the type of music that these girls are good at creating or, like, are meant to be creating. So I'm thinking again, not to juxtapose everything, but if you juxtapose it to your idol and the lyrics for your idol, which are so well crafted and, like, you almost miss some of the, like, double entendres and the. The ways in which things are just, like, perfectly, like, place both musically and lyrically. And that is the Sasha boys in their element. Right. Like, doing what they do best. Whereas Huntrix, they're not supposed to be performing takedown songs. They're supposed to be performing songs like Golden. So there may be a bit of intentionality there.
53:57
Case
Yeah, yeah.
53:58
Sam
And also see Rumi rewriting the song, and it's partially a rejection of the words because they're making her feel bad because she's kind of coming to terms with, like, what he really is and who she really is. And he's also lying, so there's, like, a sense of guilt. But the song, I think, never feels not awkward because it is also awkward for us as the viewers because we're watching her struggle with it.
54:26
Katie
Yeah.
54:27
Ben
Yeah.
54:28
Katie
So I take it back. I think it. I think it's brilliant. I think it's great.
54:32
Ben
Well, I mean, the two things can be true.
54:34
Katie
Right.
54:34
Ben
Like, it is. It is. As far as. As the. The girls are concerned, it is the weakest song that they perform in the show or in the movie. And it is therefore a phenomenal example of how you use music to convey discomfort or people being out of their element or dealing with inner turmoil around something that is happening.
54:55
Katie
Well, still being a really fun song to listen to, all of that to say, it's still good music.
55:01
Case
Yeah, but, yeah, I mean, like, the girls are not intended to Be so hateful. And Ruminates on that.
55:11
Katie
Rumi ruminates, yes.
55:14
Case
Let's move on to Free.
55:15
Ben
It's a beautiful song.
55:17
Case
It's very pretty. It's different. I mean, I think this is getting into that whole, like, this is very, like, literate in the genre of K pop and so trying to do different styles of songs within it, I think is really good there. It's so different because it's not one of the two groups. It's the fusion of the two of them.
55:37
Katie
I don't know that I know enough about K pop to be able to, one to one, compare it stylistically to what it's mirroring.
55:49
Case
I was kind of hoping Sam was going to jump in there.
55:51
Katie
That would help no pressure.
55:54
Ben
Carry us through the song.
55:55
Sam
You know, honestly, there's definitely always. Sometimes you'll just have a collab between two main singers. And honestly, like, the one thing that is, like, what I miss in our, like, musical zeitgeist is I kind of miss the big power palettes as a child of the 80s and so. But in K pop, there is a lot of times when two groups are very popular, they will go off and, like, you know, you'll have two people kind of pair off to do a duet. And a lot of times as K pop is just Korean music, you know, Western music made Korean, it's very often that there will be, like, just a duet that will just be kind of a beautiful ballad with power behind it at the end.
56:46
Sam
So trying to think of, like, anyone's specific, but, like, off the top of my head, I can't really think of a specific, like, duet. I mean, I'm sure IU has had a few because she sings mostly, like, very, like, lyrical, kind of melodic things. Ali is a big voice. She's actually Korean American, and she has done a lot of duets and she's done a lot of, like, soundtracks for Korean shows. And yeah, it's very popular. Especially anything that's going to be in a show, they'll have a type artist do the big song. Theo from EXO has had a lot of duets with a lot of different people, and so this is not common, especially for, like, a guy and girl to be paired up to do, like, a big duet that is very, you know, lyrical and just melodic and. Yeah, it's very common.
57:41
Case
Yeah. Yeah, just a very pretty track.
57:44
Ben
Mm. I think it's.
57:45
Sam
It's.
57:46
Ben
It feels like it's the point, the first point in the movie where there is some level of acceptance internally from Rumi. There is this moment of harmony.
58:02
Sam
Harmony, yes.
58:04
Ben
I hate it here.
58:08
Sam
And it's also, you know, this is Gino's I Want song, though.
58:12
Ben
Yes, exactly. Right. Like, this is his aspirational song. And so you have this moment where there isn't drive to seal the hanmoon. There isn't drive to steal souls. There isn't drive to take down the demons. There isn't any of that stuff going on. And I think that lends itself to that, you know, this very, like, beautiful, lyrical song where you just kind of.
58:36
Sam
It.
58:37
Ben
The way that I would describe it is sort of when you are at the top of a swing and you have that moment of weightlessness. And I feel like this song is that moment for.
58:50
Katie
I mean, literally are weightless.
58:52
Ben
I mean, they are like they are flying, right? Like, they do literally. They are literally weightless during it. Yeah, absolutely. But I think for the whole movie, it feels like there is that moment where you get this, like, oh, maybe. Where things kind of just hang in the air for a moment. I think they do a great job with the animation, and the song sort of fits that space perfectly. And then, you know.
59:13
Katie
Yeah. The art in that is so beautiful. Sorry, go ahead. I just.
59:18
Sam
No, no, it's okay. You're right. You were right to interrupt me. That was. That was a perfect comment. But what I was gonna say is it's also this, like, you know, kind of beautiful moment for the both of them because there's this acknowledgment, right? This. We kind of need this moment because we don't really have. I mean, like, although they've kind of been kind of working together, meeting, kind of, like flirting, this is the moment that we're really getting, like, a true connection between the two of them, because they see a possibility beyond the roles that they are assigned already as a demon hunter or as a demon burdened with, like, the guilt of his past. This is, like, without this again, the movie doesn't work. Right. Because we need this song to kind of make sure that we understand how bonded they are.
01:00:13
Sam
Because this is really gonna. This song is what makes it hurt since, you know, like, just screws her over. This is the song because it's so hopeful. He's like. He's admitting that, like, being next to her for the first time in centuries, he sees the possibility of something different. And even a person who's different within himself, like, this idea that all of these things that plague his brain, like, all the things, like all the evil thoughts that Guima repeats in his head. Believes him and that he could just be something good and be something better. And that's what this song represents, right? Like, this idea of, like, let's put down our burdens and just be good together. Like, it doesn't matter if we're both troubled. Like, they should be good together.
01:01:03
Sam
And, like, so that really sets us up for the heartbreak very shortly after.
01:01:09
Katie
Well, it's interesting too, because while it's Jinu's aspirational song, it's still very in line with, like. Like, Rumi's idea of being free is getting rid of the demon part of herself. So it's still. She hasn't turned the corner on that character arc yet. Even though it feels like that moment of weightlessness and that moment of room to breathe and freedom, her goal for freedom is still oppositional to what her eventual sort of denouement, character resolution is gonna be.
01:01:46
Sam
Right. She still wants to be golden. She still wants to be that. She doesn't. You know, she's actually running away in this song. And he's running to something.
01:01:56
Katie
Yes.
01:01:57
Case
Yeah, I do. The soundtrack's so good. So good. So then we get the reprise of both golden and Takedown, which we've already talked about, and then we get the big Sasha boy concert and we get your idol. And God damn, we've already alluded to this. The fucking lyrics of this are like. They're on the nose, but they are so good. Like, you gave me your heart, now I'm here for your soul. Like, Jesus Christ.
01:02:26
Katie
And it's the, like, playing with the words in a way where it's like, yeah, a boy band could be singing this, but also, so could a bunch of demons who want your souls. Like it really beautifully just sitting on that line while being accurate on both sides.
01:02:42
Case
Yeah, like, it's such a cool number. Like, they seem so cool during the whole thing. So my Instagram feed has been, like, flooded with K Pop demon hunter stuff, and one of the reels I saw that was just hilarious was like, someone who went to get popcorn in the middle of the Sasha boy number and comes back, and it's just a person reacting, being like, oh, everyone's kind of just really digging it. And like, oh, they're flying.
01:03:04
Ben
There's a lot of hand waving by audience members.
01:03:09
Katie
Well, I think at that point, they've all kind of become thralls.
01:03:11
Ben
I mean, certainly. Yes.
01:03:12
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
01:03:13
Ben
I do think it's also interesting in one of the verses, they say very specifically, don't let it show. Keep it all inside the pain and the shame. Keep it out of sight. Which is a very close paraphrase of. I forget what the exact quote is from the previous generational hunter that she,.
01:03:32
Case
Like always, her thoughts and feelings must ever be heard.
01:03:35
Katie
Yes, yes.
01:03:35
Ben
Yeah, yeah. I thought it was very interesting. They're like, oh, we're gonna put something. And it's like not quite the same, but is very much a reference to that.
01:03:42
Case
That.
01:03:44
Ben
Repeated phrase that we keep hearing that is causing Rumi to have all of this angst around her existence.
01:03:53
Sam
Yeah. I really love too that they put them in traditional garb, especially the garb that would have been around for Nobles when Jinnu was alive. I think that's really cool too.
01:04:05
Case
Yeah, it's a really cool number. I really love the baby Sasha breakout, like, got me going viral. And he likes his claws, like.
01:04:14
Sam
And also it's great that they, you know that the animators let them look more their demon selves.
01:04:23
Katie
Yeah.
01:04:24
Sam
You know, there's more demon elements to them. And like, of course the audience, because we know this world, right. It's just going to assume that this is part of the costume, part of the concept. We know that this is like a full embrace, like, of love, like everything. Which I think that's also why I love that they put him in more of the traditional garp because it's almost like Ginu is like back to who he was before he decided to. Like before he sang free. Like he's gone trapped.
01:04:51
Katie
Yeah. Ben, I don't know if you remember this and if you don't, we can cut it because it's going to be nothing but there. We watched this video about the choices in the chord progression in this song and it was super interesting and I can't remember anything about it. Do you remember this at all?
01:05:10
Ben
I do not remember. I know exactly what you're talking about. There's this guy that I don't know if we follow. I think probably we have followed him at this point and his whole thing is talking about the way that compositions will use either chord progressions or hitting specific notes motifs or coming back to a tonic on the use of the word home, for example. Just actually as a bit of an aside, just to bring it back to our pre opening conversation about Hercules. No, not have a thing about Hercules. And that was, I think the first video that I saw was him being like, yeah. When he says in Find My Way, when he says the word home, he's on the tonic.
01:05:51
Case
Right.
01:05:51
Ben
He has come home melodically and harmonically as he is saying it. And so that's sort of the analysis that he does. And I wish that I remembered because.
01:06:02
Katie
It was really interesting and super cool. And they're. The people who composed it are really smart.
01:06:07
Sam
Yeah, yeah.
01:06:08
Ben
Attention to detail.
01:06:09
Sam
They used the Catholic chant at the beginning.
01:06:13
Katie
Yes.
01:06:13
Sam
The Day of Wrath.
01:06:14
Ben
Yeah.
01:06:14
Case
Like the Gregorian.
01:06:15
Katie
Yes.
01:06:15
Sam
Yeah, yeah. So, like. And that's so great. They used the Day of Wrath in the beginning because this is. This is a king of souls. That's what this is. That's what this concert is that they've invited people to.
01:06:28
Katie
This is what Christians think pop music is,.
01:06:32
Case
Right?
01:06:35
Ben
Yes. Suck it, Christians.
01:06:37
Katie
Not all Christians.
01:06:40
Ben
No, all Christians.
01:06:42
Sam
The Catholics are fine with all this stuff. It's fine.
01:06:46
Case
No. So I tried to explain this movie to my sister, who is currently on a very Christian bent, and she was like, I don't know if I want to watch a movie about demons. And I'm like, it's not okay.
01:06:56
Katie
It's not really what it's. But, yeah, fair. Okay.
01:06:59
Case
Like, it's more about pop music and about demons.
01:07:02
Katie
Using pop music to influence the youths.
01:07:06
Ben
Does it help if they lose?
01:07:08
Case
That was the thing that I surrounded me. I'm like, it's Demon Hunters.
01:07:12
Katie
Yeah. The demons are bad. Not good.
01:07:14
Case
Right. But the songs are good.
01:07:18
Ben
You will like the demons, right? They just go away.
01:07:22
Katie
There are some very sympathetic demons in this movie.
01:07:28
Case
Yeah. Well, yeah. Why don't we move on to the last major number, which is what it sounds like.
01:07:34
Katie
I. The first time that we watched it, I don't know how I didn't. Not that I didn't think it was good, but, like, I did not appreciate how good it was until the second time we watched it. And I was like, this is maybe the best number in the whole movie. Like, the. The percussion and the choral element and the builds and the sort of, like, God, I don't even know. Like, the release. Like, it. It's such a. Such a perfect way to finish out this very epic story with this incredibly epic piece of music that also, like, obviously, like, thematically, is Rumi's decision to come to terms with who she is. And same with Mira and with Zoe and the defeating of Guima. But, like, beyond that, just musically, it gives me goosebumps.
01:08:30
Katie
Like, I have listened to this song on repeat while I was climbing because it, One, makes me try hard and two, just, like, makes my brain so happy.
01:08:41
Case
Yeah, it's a great workout song. Like, it really just pumps you up just remarkably.
01:08:47
Ben
I want to call out specifically the unaccompanied chord that they hit when they sing. This is what it sounds like at the very beginning, which I don't even have to be able to. I don't have to listen to it to hear it and get goosebumps from how beautiful. That moment of harmony as the three of them reconnect is, like, truly a stunning use of. Of harmonics to convey how powerful that is, especially at that point in the movie.
01:09:17
Sam
Yeah. Especially because they're coming back together.
01:09:20
Ben
Yeah.
01:09:20
Case
Yeah.
01:09:21
Katie
The build up to that very epic part takes a really long time. Like, Ben and I were listening to it in the car because that part is so satisfying, and were like, oh, wow. They take a really long time to get there. You're just kind of, like, in anticipation. In anticipation. In anticipation for, like. Like, I don't know, two thirds of the song, which I'm sure is intentional, but it really does make it that much sweeter when everything comes together and you get that choral sort of just, like, repetition of the chorus, and it's so good. Yeah.
01:10:00
Sam
It's because they're winning people back over, you know, like, first they have to win each other back. Right.
01:10:06
Katie
Like.
01:10:07
Sam
Like in that very beginning. And then they come together. Yeah. And. And. And then. And then they basically have to, like, state their case. And then by the end, like, people are snapping out of it and remembering what it's like to just be human and not listen to these voices in your head. Whatever. Insecurities. Right. Because that's how Guima gets you with your insecurities. The things that you feel really bad about. The guilt that you have, your shame. And so. And so, like, such a beautiful. I actually cried the first time together and. But it's just such a wonderful build and such a really exciting thing and.
01:10:54
Katie
And epic. It's so epic.
01:10:57
Sam
And saw these people, like, waking up and singing along with them and, you.
01:11:02
Case
Know, and they're hordes of demons that they fight and kill in it.
01:11:04
Sam
Like.
01:11:04
Case
Like, just. Just emphasizing, like, there's so much going on in it at this crazy concert that ends with them flying somehow.
01:11:15
Sam
And the guy who keeps changing shirts every time he switches allegiance.
01:11:19
Case
Yes.
01:11:20
Sam
So much happening.
01:11:22
Katie
It's almost evocative of, like, a Viking war chant.
01:11:26
Sam
Yeah.
01:11:27
Case
Yeah. So just a lot of fun. I really dig this number. I dig every number in this. In this movie. This is why I wanted to talk about the soundtrack. It's a really good soundtrack. Yeah. No, just super solid. Yeah. I don't know if I have anything else to say about that, though, beyond just, like, fuck, it's good.
01:11:46
Ben
I mean, yeah. Yeah.
01:11:48
Katie
I wish that my music theory wasn't 15 years lapsed, because I feel like I'd have a lot more interesting and intelligent thoughts.
01:11:56
Ben
Googling to see if I could pull up any. Anything at all about the use of dissonance and the harmonies in that last song. And I just. I can't find anything fast enough, unfortunately. But, yeah, that song goes so freaking hard. Holy guacamole.
01:12:14
Case
I mean, I love the lyrics. Show me what's underneath. I'll find your harmony. Like. Yeah, like, real. And, you know, it concludes with them not having a golden hanmoon. That concludes with them having a rainbow honmoon. Like a very different kind of thing. Like, it's the new structure that they've built instead of what they thought, which was this facade that. That buried their shame and made them, in a certain sense, like the same as the demons. Now it's like, no, we're going to accept who we are and we're going to accept all of who we are.
01:12:44
Ben
Yeah.
01:12:45
Katie
And the fact that it. That it has that coral element which is bringing the fans into the music as well. So it's just like. Not to be incredibly corny, but just like this massive group acceptance. Because it's not just about them. Right. It's about every single person who is in that stadium.
01:13:07
Case
Yeah. Because at the end, it's literally everyone clapping together, everyone singing along with it. That's the hanmoon.
01:13:13
Sam
It's.
01:13:14
Case
You know, which is very different than the Sasha boys. The Sasha boys want you to get their earworm stuck in your head, but it's not about everyone coming together.
01:13:24
Katie
And the choir is what makes that song so great. Like, that song would not be nearly as emotional and impactful as. As it is if it wasn't for the choral element.
01:13:38
Sam
Yeah. Also in the. In the chorus, hidden, laced in there is a callback to the original Hunter song that you hear at the beginning of the movie. It's very light, and it's basically like together we light up in the darkness. It's in the background. And it's one of the things that EJ really tried to insert into the song because she wanted a callback to that because it's based on a traditional Korean lullaby, so wanted to intertwine that back in. So that there was a callback to the original Hunters at the end. Like, the girls had summoned that to bring forth this rainbow hanmoon that would be for everyone, even broken people. So.
01:14:26
Katie
What a good movie.
01:14:28
Case
Such a good movie. Why don't we pause here and do a shout out for one of the shows on our network. When we come back, we can continue our conversation about the movie.
01:14:38
Ben
Cool. No,.
01:14:43
Case
I overrule you.
01:14:45
Ben
I mean, fair enough. It's your show. I guess you get to do that.
01:14:50
Case
Do you have a comic book you just can't stop thinking about? One that stuck with you years later On Trade School, guest hosts get the mic to talk about a graphic novel that changed the way they see the world or just made them fall in love with comics all over again. In just five to 15 minutes, you'll hear stories about the stories that real people love the most. Trade School, a short form ongoing series about the comic book trade paperbacks we love and why we love them. Find it wherever you get your podcasts.
01:15:22
Ben
Speaking of butter, let's slide back into this conversation.
01:15:25
Case
Yeah,.
01:15:27
Ben
I hate myself.
01:15:29
Sam
No, that's.
01:15:29
Case
That's a better intro back into the episode than I was going to give. So let's roll with that one.
01:15:34
Ben
Oh, no.
01:15:35
Sam
But I can't believe you accepted that. And you couldn't accept in harmony. I'm like, come on,.
01:15:44
Ben
If I make the pun, I will accept it, but if you steal the pun from me and I didn't think of it, I will be resentful.
01:15:50
Sam
I see.
01:15:51
Ben
Yeah, I reserve the right to resent when somebody comes up with a pun that I missed.
01:15:56
Case
So the normal premise for a fifth episode of this show is that we look at movies that had a hard time behind the scenes and then were successful upfront. It's the proof of concept.
01:16:07
Katie
Oh, you're right. We haven't done any of that at all yet.
01:16:09
Sam
After we've been talking about the soundtrack the whole time.
01:16:12
Case
Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm getting to it. I'm getting to it. I'm getting to it. The idea is that this is the proof of concept for the show. And that said, this was the kind of movie that when I did my initial surface research, it was like, oh, yeah, that's going to be perfect. Because this was a movie that was undervalued by the production putting it together. It was delayed a bit and just generally you would think, okay, well, that sounds like there were some problems there. The flip side of that is that everyone involved were super professional and super capable and it came together like a fucking miracle. The only big thing is that Sony didn't think that an Asian focused movie like this was going to be a hit, and that's why it got dumped on Netflix instead.
01:17:00
Case
But Netflix knew what they were doing and, like Again, big W for Netflix pushed the shit out of it and it's become a cultural phenomenon. Meanwhile, on the background production side of things, this is very much a musical and it wasn't initially conceived as being as much a musical. But the flip side is that they found E.J. And that both created, they both found a person who could write amazing K pop music for them and also perform amazing K pop music for them. And so from the standpoint of trying to like fit this into the round hole of a fifth episode with this extremely square peg of just solid production, I, it's, I think we can do it. But I will be upfront that most of the things I read were just like, yeah, they're very talented people who made this movie like that.
01:17:52
Case
That's the, that's the case. So it's kind of funny on that front in terms of like, what's the actual situation here? So why don't we just talk about what else works in this movie? Because it's a lot of things that work. We talked about the music. I think the animation cool there. I don't, I don't have enough of animation background to like get into like the frame rate kind of situation. But there's something, I don't know the. Because I want to say like, is it on the twos or something like that? But I, I, like this is just jargon that I've absorbed that I don't actually like have enough familiarity to like properly explain. But like there's like a rhythm to it that is, it's not overly fluid motion.
01:18:37
Case
There's like a, a little bit of a chop on purpose that I find really appealing. Now it is Sony, it's the same studio that made into the Spider Verse. So like we're talking about a really quality production team in that regard. But I think that the animation looks great. I think the fight choreography looks great. I think the dancing choreography looks great. I mean the Sasha boy choreography you see all over the fucking place with people imitating that dance because it's so goddamn good. It's just a good looking movie.
01:19:06
Sam
Yeah, I love also with the animation that they, especially with the Saja Boys, they put in little touches here and there, even in Soda Pop where they like bend their legs, look at an unreasonable angle at some point when they're up on top of something and if you put on the freeze frame, it looks so odd. But like it was just like, yeah, they're demons and they just always do that all the time with them. And I think that's really great. There's a lot of details in the animation and.
01:19:39
Katie
And the thing I want to bring back, the. The thing that Ben mentioned, which is the. This switching of animation styles to show different. Different sort of like emotional states. There's also, it's also, I believe, in a combo of 2 and 3D. Right. If I'm not completely mistaken.
01:19:58
Case
Oh, of hand drawn animation with like 3D backgrounds. Yes.
01:20:01
Katie
Yeah. And so you end up with like a couple. Several different art styles that are. I. I have to assume I'd have to rewatch it, but like used for. To convey different either thematic or emotional things.
01:20:16
Sam
Yeah. I actually also really loved it. Like, there's a scene when the girls are kind of. Zoe and Mira are kind of confronting Mira and it's early in the morning and they're all not wearing makeup and their faces are clearly so bare. Like they even have like little like dark spots under their eyes. Like. And I just like, oh, that's so nice. Because like, it's just like, oh, they seem so much more real just adding this detail. That's really cool.
01:20:48
Case
Yeah, they do. They have that scene where like Bobby comes in and they're all like covered with like scars and stuff. And they like immediately make up their faces to like hide it.
01:20:56
Sam
Yeah.
01:20:57
Case
One thing that I read about this movie was that there was a goal of not having. Of having a very female gaze for the characters. That they're not supposed to be sex objects. They're not supposed to be like, they're. They're hot and they're cute and they're all like. They're all these things. But they're also allowed to be a little gross. Like one of the first introductory scenes for them is like them stuffing their face with food.
01:21:21
Ben
So fun.
01:21:22
Case
And then. And then immediately interrupting a demon with belching is supposed to be like, okay, this is the tone of the movie. It's a little lighthearted. These characters are allowed to be kind of fun and goofy and a little bit weird. In addition to this very put together pop star kind of facade.
01:21:38
Katie
It's also interesting because of that stuffing the face animation. In a lot of ways, the 3D animation is sort of replicating old school 2D animation. So like almost like returning back to what animation used to look like before it went for the sort of like hyper realistic, computer generated. Not hyper realistic, that's not right. But more realistic, less sort of cartoony type of animation style.
01:22:09
Ben
It looks like just Proper anime. And there are a lot like exaggerated facial expressions that they make at various points. Whether it's celebrating, you know, like couch time or in the elevator when they're yelling about, I forget exactly what it is they're yelling about. But like the exaggerated facial expressions or like veins, whatever, it's very, you know, it's very traditional animation as opposed to, you know, like what you were just saying in terms of the more like three dimensional, going for more of a realistic slant on the animated style.
01:22:50
Sam
I mean the thirst for an eyes. Popcorn.
01:22:53
Ben
Oh, so funny.
01:22:57
Katie
I think the movement is also, the dancing is also very interesting because the fact that like it is both replicatable on human bodies, but also like when you're watching it feels so impossible. It strikes this balance of making them look incredibly talented but also still staying grounded in physics and what human bodies can do. Because even for me, someone who danced when I first watched the dance sequences, I was like, I don't know how anyone in their right mind could pick up that choreography. And then you see all these people on TikTok and Instagram who are able to watch it and to break it down to learn the sequences. So it is very doable. But when you're just watching it in the film, it's like, this is insane. I don't know, I don't know how people could move their bodies like this.
01:23:48
Ben
Smash cut to some six year old doing it perfectly. And you're like, okay kids.
01:23:51
Katie
I'm like, okay. I guess, I guess people can move their bodies. Like that's fine.
01:23:55
Sam
Yeah, I mean they did have like two. I mean, because animators always use reference people anyway, so they did have two choreographers who did work on choreography for reference. I mean, even to the flying. I'm sure they did have like two people like come in and you know, kind of work on that stuff. So that could feel. And these are choreographers who work in the K pop scene already. So trying to keep that authenticity, you know, within the film and kind of keep it within that K pop culture. They did that. So, you know, that's kind of cool. And I think that's maybe part of the reason why, you know, that it's just like, oh yeah, real people could do that. Except for the flying bits.
01:24:42
Katie
Except for the flying bits. But even just the way that they move and like the shapes that their bodies make aren't necessarily the. I mean it's animation, right? Like it's not human, it's not Natural. But the fact that it started with humans and then is able to then transfer back to humans, I find to be very satisfying.
01:25:02
Sam
I love that there are people who have made breakdown videos of the dances for other people. I know you want to learn them. Like such a. That's such a K pop fandom thing to do. Because real, like. No, this actually happens for real. Like, bands will release a dance and there's always heavy choreography. And then like, better dancers will go online and they will make a breakdown video. And then hip hop fans will meet before a concert and. And they will just dance in front of the concert with the choreography that they've learned. That's part of the culture. So it fits right into the fandom. Kind of part of K pop full circle.
01:25:47
Case
Well, I feel like that goes back to boy bands. Well, pop in general. In high school. I was in high school during the heyday of the NSYNC era, and there was a group of guys that I went to school with who memorized the dances and at every school dance would do perfect choreography to an Ian Sync number. So I wonder if that is just a part of pop culture dealing with music. And this movie is just very on the pulse.
01:26:18
Katie
Also, this is away from the movement aspect, but I think especially given that you said it shows up in the. The children's section of Netflix, the fact that the demons aren't designed to be terrifying. They are very demonic looking, but they're not scary. You're not gonna have nightmares after you watch this movie. Right? And that feels like it must be very intentional with the character design for all of those creatures. Because if you're gonna have kids watching this, you can't be giving. I mean, you can. I certainly watch things that gave me nightmares as a child, but it feels like it plays into that family friendly, like, ethos of this.
01:26:59
Sam
Yeah.
01:27:00
Case
Yeah. I mean, for a thing that's very, you know, about fighting demons, like, one thing we haven't really talked about is that this movie's really funny.
01:27:08
Sam
Yeah. Oh, the. The demons on the plane might be second favorite to the Saja boy demon fan. Second favorite to the Saja boy demon fan because he is like, I mean, honestly, crying every time with two light sticks. Love, love, love. I live for that demon. Just watering a plant with coffee. Automatically. Hilarious.
01:27:31
Katie
It also, it doesn't necessarily portray the demons as, I don't want to say not malicious because, like, obviously there. There is an element of malice to the way in which they operate, but.
01:27:42
Ben
People do go missing. That is a thing that is stated at some point that missing.
01:27:45
Case
But they go missing as opposed to goes to dead, you know?
01:27:49
Katie
Yeah.
01:27:49
Case
They seem to be absorbed by the demons as opposed to being, like, murdered by them.
01:27:53
Katie
It also. It all. It's all in service of Guima. Right? Like. Like, and maybe this is additional lore that will get explored in. In other iterations or movies or whatever it is, but it doesn't seem like the demons need human souls to survive. It seems like Guima wants them. Yeah, right.
01:28:13
Sam
Yeah, that's what it feels like. And it's like he owns them because he owns their shame, you know? So I will say that overall, I think demons feel incompetent.
01:28:25
Katie
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It almost feels like taking, like, a bunch of interns and making them manage a company.
01:28:33
Case
Well, I. I had a very Power Rangers kind of vibe to like, the demon dynamic, where it's like, oh, you failed. Let me guess. You failed. Like. Like that they're constantly invading our world and being sent back by this, you know, Sentai team.
01:28:51
Katie
And it almost makes you feel sorry for them. Like, it's a bit of a abusive managerial relationship that they're in for.
01:28:57
Sam
Sure. Kwima's not a good boss.
01:29:01
Katie
I like how I fully transitioned this to, like, this is a corporation that is being run by Kwima and there is no hr.
01:29:08
Sam
Like, there's none.
01:29:09
Katie
No hr.
01:29:10
Ben
They also do an interesting job, and I have to assume that it's intentional of over the course of the movie, making the demons a little bit more human in terms of the way that they are acting. You have all these fanboys and fangirls of Huntricks on the outside that are people. You've got the guys that cry over them and the guy who got a tattoo, and you've got the guy who changes his shirt constantly, who is hilarious. But then you go to the demon realm and they are all doing the exact same thing for the Saja boys, which I thought was an interesting way of being able to highlight that there is some amount of commonality that is split between the two.
01:29:48
Ben
Also, I wanted to say, while we're talking about people who are incompetent or competent, I appreciated the fact that Bobby is incredibly competent as opposed to being the usual bumbling manager. He is always on top of things. He always has things ready to go. And it's. It is just sort of breezing through managing what is the largest K pop group in the world, as opposed to, like, okay, but have any of us actually taken a step back to ask, like, how this incompetent person is Theoretically managing these like giant groups. Like. No, no. The person who's running this group deserves to be here. He's great at his job and takes care of the characters and they in turn clearly have a lot of love and respect for him.
01:30:33
Ben
As opposed to the sort of like denigrating relationship where they're just kind of like, oh, well, yeah, we tolerate that guy. Which I thought was a nice thing for them to just be like, hey, we won't lean into that for this movie.
01:30:43
Katie
Maybe if Gwenmod had a Bobby, they would have broken through the Hond moon.
01:30:47
Case
He almost had a Bobby.
01:30:48
Ben
He did.
01:30:50
Katie
That's true. That is true.
01:30:51
Ben
Crimping a Bobby. I don't know why that popped in my head.
01:30:55
Case
No, but that's true. Bobby's great and is a source of like you pointed out the scene where like he just like. I just need to clear my head and look out at it at. At the city. It's not the end of the world. And then you see the reflection on the girl's face and it's. It's the Han moon being like ripped apart.
01:31:08
Ben
It's like on fire.
01:31:10
Case
Yeah. And Bobby's a source of a lot of the comedy in the movie as well. Like, you know, we get the scene where they're practicing golden. He like smacks the cameraman by accident. You know, we have the spot where it's like, all right, just envision that there aren't thousands of fans out there that are really scary. And then it's like cuts to the security. It's like there's thousands of fans and they're really scary.
01:31:32
Sam
Poor Bobby.
01:31:34
Ben
Yeah, I love those moments.
01:31:35
Sam
He's so lovable in.
01:31:37
Katie
In the mythology that they are pulling from. This is something I've probably should have googled and already have the answer to. But I find it interesting that we sort of have two different designs for the demons we've got.
01:31:51
Ben
This is a long standing conversation.
01:31:53
Case
We've had their demon form versus their pattern form.
01:31:56
Ben
Well, there's.
01:31:56
Katie
There's the pattern form, the demon form, but then we also never see like Jinu or the other Sasha boys in a pure demon form. Is the idea that they have three different states or is the idea that there are some demons that are humans that have like made this deal with Guima and other demons that are like, of that realm?
01:32:13
Case
I think the latter.
01:32:14
Katie
Okay, then why don't we see any more besides human demons? Yeah, human. Human demons. Besides the Saja boys?
01:32:22
Case
Well, there's other. They show a Few other ones in the backgrounds that are in the same robes design. So I think there is that. But obviously the focus is on the Sasha boys for that. But yeah, I took it as the ones that had the more monstrous. The pilot on the plane, for example, I think he pretended to be human, not used to be human, and is assuming that form versus Ginou. I think Geno is the only one who's explicitly formerly human. We could infer that the rest of the Sasha boys might be. But Ginu is the only one that we know for a fact used to be human.
01:32:55
Sam
Yeah, I know.
01:32:56
Ben
I think that's. That's what Katie and I talk about a lot. It's like, okay, but if there are more, then why don't we see more of them?
01:33:02
Sam
Yeah, because you need to focus on the golden boy.
01:33:05
Ben
Clearly you're not wrong.
01:33:08
Sam
You know, there is a fan theory that like, there's a photo in Healer Hans, like kind of whatchamacallit in his office that like some people think is like some of the Saja boys, like before they kind of like bust on, which is like just a fan theory. It's not a headcanon, but people are like, oh, these guys kind of look like the guys. I've seen that a lot online. That's not substantiated. But I do think that there are people who really feel like they were human, but I think they might just want them to because, you know, they know that they would go to Guima pretty quickly. This is such a boy fan.
01:33:51
Ben
I just did a quick Google and I am seeing so many marked up images. Yeah, I did the exact same thing. Holy moly.
01:33:58
Sam
It is a very like people actually kind of like debate which picture too. Like.
01:34:06
Ben
So yeah, I'm also seeing two different ones.
01:34:08
Sam
Yeah.
01:34:09
Case
Because they show the fan theories are amazing about this movie.
01:34:12
Sam
Yes.
01:34:13
Case
Can we pivot to a different fan theory that I just want to talk about?
01:34:16
Katie
I have a feeling I know which one it is, but please say it.
01:34:19
Case
Celine and Rumi's father and mother.
01:34:23
Katie
This is not the fan theory I thought it was going to be.
01:34:25
Case
The fan theory is that Celine in what went to kill Rumi's father, who we know is a demon, and accidentally killed the mother as well.
01:34:34
Katie
So I saw that. And then I saw somewhere, and this could be completely wrong, that the creator explicitly refuted that.
01:34:40
Case
Oh, okay.
01:34:41
Katie
I might be wrong though. So don't. Don't quote me. But I think that there was some potential talk about that actually having been an idea that they then Were like, no, that's too much.
01:34:54
Case
Yeah. I mean, it's certainly similar to an Obi Wan Kenobi scenario. So what happened to the mom is its own thing, but we know that Rumi had a demon father.
01:35:05
Katie
Yeah. Also, I really hope we get to explore that at some point in this franchise, because I feel like that Love Story is potentially quite interesting. And also her father is potentially still around somewhere, Right?
01:35:22
Case
Possibly. Yeah.
01:35:24
Katie
The fan theory that I was thinking about, though, was. And I don't even know if it's explicitly a fan theory, because the art style is very similar, but with Jinu's sister and the original Hunters.
01:35:36
Case
Yeah, the original hunters that they saved Ginu's sister and mom.
01:35:39
Katie
I mean, I feel like that almost feels like, kind of explicit just in the fact that they look pretty identical.
01:35:46
Ben
I was gonna say we do see her, like, the. Assuming that it is the same little girl, but like, the pairing of the mother, daughter character, like, I don't know, forms is basically identical. But we do, like, literally see her soul get pulled up by one of the hunters and used in their. The original Hanmoon in that first animation. I liked that one. I thought it was very compelling.
01:36:12
Katie
Which then also adds a layer to Jinu's story, which is like Guima told him that his family died because he left them, but it's possible that they didn't, and that's just been a lie that he's been living with the guilt of for centuries, not decades.
01:36:30
Ben
I mean, technically, centuries are made up of decades, so you're not wrong.
01:36:35
Sam
Multiple decades. So many decades.
01:36:37
Ben
So many decade.
01:36:39
Case
Been living it with it for seconds, at least.
01:36:42
Katie
Seconds.
01:36:45
Case
Yeah. No, this is the kind of movie that. That invites that kind of, like, fan speculation, which I think is just a really fun aspect of it. Sam, I'm going to lean on you for a second here. We've already talked a bit about the sort of, like, the. The cultural aspects of it, but is there anything else that. That is specific to, like, Korean culture that we haven't shouted out? Like, there's a lot that. I understand that I'm just a very, like, white boy who's just not gonna know a lot of this. And it's not like I'm like, I've been listening to a ton of K Pop since this movie came out, but I'm not gonna pretend that I have any sort of authority on it.
01:37:19
Case
Like, I couldn't name a group besides twice off the top of my head, bts, but I was gonna be like,.
01:37:24
Sam
I think you'd do one more at least.
01:37:26
Case
Yeah.
01:37:27
Sam
And it was bts.
01:37:29
Case
Right. But is there anything in particular that. That you spotted that is really cool actually, before. Before you say. I will note the weapons are really cool. They're specific Korean style weapons. I particularly appreciate Mira's Glaive, which I forget the name for it. It's not a Naganita, that's the Japanese version of it. But it's. It's still a very cool and traditional Korean weapon. Which is why Song Mina and Soul Calibur uses it.
01:37:55
Sam
Well, it's interesting too because I. Okay. Like I am not an authority at all. I do have Korean friends who I've discussed this with. But you know, take everything I say with like the third hand knowledge that it is because I am not Korean, I am Puerto Rican. Actually. All three of the weapons that the girls have that our leads have are similar to weapons or even devices that shamans will use. And in South Korea in the more traditional like it's like an older kind of more you know, just the belief system that was there before everything else. The. The shamans are usually women or traditionally they were women and they traditionally would use these types of weapons. So the. The small knives and. And that particular staff that seriously.
01:38:53
Sam
Sorry, I know somebody's a name too and a sword to actually in their ceremonies to like get rid of spirits. So that's like a nice to that, you know, because these are demon hunters. And so like, you know, that's just like a nugget. These are. They're not never say they're shamans. And from my understanding for it was explained to me that like right now some at least politicians going to shamans is a little controversial in Korea right now. But yes. So there's that. And then the most important character that we have not talked about yet, which is Derpy.
01:39:29
Katie
I can talk about Derpy and stuff.
01:39:30
Case
Oh my God. Yes. Oh God. I wanted to talk about Derpy.
01:39:36
Sam
Derpy who is a tiger. So Derpy didn't have a name in the script, but he is emblematic of the animator's cat. And we've got their name afterwards when everyone's like, what's the name of the tiger?
01:39:50
Case
I love how the Internet just goes for Derpy because there's also Derpy hooves from My Little Pony, which was also a situation where like people were looking to name a character who was in the background and who also had weird eyes.
01:40:01
Sam
But Derpy actually in like traditional Korean lore, the magpie actually represents the people and the tiger usually represents royalty. And so we had that fun little thing with, like, the magpie continually taking the hat, which that particular hat was only worn by royalty, so. So it's kind of.
01:40:24
Katie
I didn't know that. That's really funny.
01:40:26
Sam
Yeah, so. So it's kind of one of the things. So, like, Gino made Gino, who, like, sold his soul to be part of the Aristocrats, or at least to form for them. Right. Made the hat for the tiger, but the magpie keeps stealing it. And so. Yes. And so the. The tiger and the magpie are in a lot of, like, traditional, you know, kind of art all through Korean history because it's the symbolization of, like, the royal power and the people. And so, yeah, Derpy being a messenger and kind of this, you know, kind of familiar to Geno is always really nice. Plus, he adds so much. So much fun.
01:41:08
Case
Also, they somehow make him so lovable so quickly, you know, like, it's amazing how, like, it just reads as, like, not hostile, even though it's a big, scary tiger.
01:41:19
Katie
I think also, like. Like, because he comes in as, like, a servant of Ginu, you have this moment of, is this some sort of demonic entity? And that goes away so quickly because.
01:41:31
Case
Because he knocks over a plant.
01:41:34
Sam
So Maggie Kang's husband, who is a great animator in his own right, but I can't remember him because I'm a feminist. No, I just actually cannot remember his name right at the current time. He actually. That's based on their actual cat. I was a little bit slow and knocks things down a lot and then tries to set it right. And he saw the cat doing it and just kind of drew it out. And she loved it so much that's kind of how that became part of the movie.
01:42:06
Ben
I love that.
01:42:07
Sam
Yeah. And so, like, I. I love that fact because it puts really nice personal touch to what could otherwise be a very intimidating tiger. But he's just fun. He's clumsy, he's big, and then sassy. Just feels so smart and so incredibly mischievous that it's. It's really fun. You think? So what else? What else. Is there anything else in particular that I can think of that we've missed? I mean, I've watched a bunch of videos and talked to a couple friends about it, but I think those are like, the. The finest parts. I mean, like, of course, this is a good representation of K Pop overall. Like, they hired K pop artists to sing and to perform in Korean, Americans to sing and perform these songs.
01:43:00
Sam
And so they really did their best to try to weave this with as much, you know, cultural respect, I think, you know, Maggie Kang is Korean Canadian, and it was just really important for her, I think, to try to keep that as, you know, close to as possible. You know, I. I saw a lot of people be really excited about the fact that roomie picked up a kimbap that wasn't cut because, like, some, like, traditional. If you're making at home, like, it may not be sliced, you know, like to go maybe, but. So a lot of Korean people online were just, like, really excited about, like, proper food representation, which is pretty great. I think it's like, yes, finally. I, you know, I just think that from everything from clothing choice and, you know, have a lot of the Korean knots.
01:43:57
Sam
I don't remember the names of them, like, on all the girls costumes, which is a nod to that stuff.
01:44:02
Case
Oh, yeah. Like the Huntrix symbol.
01:44:05
Sam
And those are, like, for good fortune and stuff like that. So having those all over and. And it's. It's basically like everywhere in their, like, in their styling, they really made sure to, like, pay attention to, like, everything that the girls are kind of. Both bands are doing, for sure.
01:44:25
Case
Yeah. I. I mean, obviously I'm coming from the perspective of someone who's not, like, super well versed in Korean culture, but, like, it seems to be a very respectful. There's nothing where it's, like, being played. It.
01:44:36
Sam
It's.
01:44:37
Case
At no point does it feel like it's punching down on Korean culture.
01:44:41
Sam
No.
01:44:42
Case
You know, like, there's humor, but it's humor at the characters, not at the. The world that they're from. You know, it doesn't feel like we're. We're taking, you know, we're not taking any aspect of, like, of the world that they live in and playing it for last. Beyond just, like, the fact that there are, like, these types of people in it. Like Healer Han, who is like a little bit of a con man kind of thing.
01:45:08
Sam
Wait, but is. He was actually right? He was right. But Ruby was hiding something that she needed to discuss, and that's why her voice is off.
01:45:16
Case
It's true. It's true. Maybe all he needed to give was a placebo.
01:45:21
Sam
You must be a really great healer. I will hear nothing against him.
01:45:25
Case
I've just got just the tonics for you. Yeah. Dan O Daycare. Yeah.
01:45:34
Sam
I think also the. I think a true testament to this is that, like, people in Korea liked this film. So, like, you know, like. Like, if they didn't like this film, we'd be like, oh, maybe there's Some questionable things, but they. They really did like this film. And actually.
01:45:51
Case
Yeah.
01:45:52
Katie
Yeah.
01:45:52
Sam
And after this, like, it was really funny because pop idols do a lot of trends online and stuff like that. So many groups made their own either soda pop or, like, their own stuff to kind of like. Kind of like, oh, yeah, I love this too. So actually, I think. I think I saw shared online that Jungkook from BTS actually, like, watched it on, like, a live. Was, like, talking at the film while people were watching him watch the film, which is just a crazy thing you can do if you're in bts Just let people watch you do other things. This movie clearly, at least has global acceptance and is global acceptance from the culture that it is borrowing from and is a love letter to.
01:46:47
Case
All right, I have one last question for you, Sam.
01:46:49
Sam
Okay.
01:46:50
Case
How does this fit on your chore scale?
01:46:53
Sam
Oh, you know, this is actually a very distracting movie. I don't know if you should be doing chores during it, but if you've seen it for, like, the 30th time, I. I think you could leave it in the background. So I'm gonna say that in terms of chores, it's not really good for getting things done that you can do it. So I'm gonna say that it's like a one, or a two. I think a two, because you could, like, maybe sing along while you're doing stuff. But it'd probably better if you just listen to the soundtrack while you're doing stuff, because I think if you speed the animation, you're gonna stop and then get distracted.
01:47:30
Katie
Can I offer a different scoring system for this?
01:47:34
Case
Sure.
01:47:35
Katie
It's a 10 on the treadmill Scoring system.
01:47:38
Sam
Oh, nice.
01:47:40
Case
Oh, that's a good one.
01:47:41
Katie
Yeah. We actually recommended my dad because he always needs to watch something when he's on the treadmill. We were like, we have the perfect movie for you because it is distracting, it is pretty, it is upbeat, there's good music, and you can just focus in on it because it's all you're doing for that period of time.
01:47:58
Sam
Yeah.
01:47:59
Case
Oh, I like that. I like that scale.
01:48:01
Katie
Thank you.
01:48:02
Case
You should make that a permanent thing that you do for everything.
01:48:05
Ben
How millable is this movie? I'd like to say two things. One is I did a little bit of googling, and the weapon that Mira to used uses is called a waldo, which is essentially just a moon sword, which is or moon blade, which is the polearm. And then I wanted to share it with you guys. This is a merging of two things. Theory that Katie and I have very close to heart, which is that this movie.
01:48:33
Katie
Oh yeah.
01:48:33
Ben
Canonically could exist in Brandon Sanderson's universe.
01:48:39
Katie
Cosmere.
01:48:41
Ben
It could exist in the cosmere because those weapons are shard blades.
01:48:46
Katie
But not just that. There's so much more to this. Those weapons are shard blades.
01:48:51
Ben
Well, okay. There's a lot of other stuff to support this as well. We've had a very in depth discussion about it. However, I think I feel like the linchpin for just like the easy access is they can summon their weapons out of nowhere. They are glowing. They are made out of souls. There's a lot to say that this could be argued as a cosmere canonical world.
01:49:12
Katie
I have so many things to say about why that isn't the linchpin in it, but I'm not going to say them because that's not what we're talking about.
01:49:21
Ben
I think it's the easiest one to access without.
01:49:24
Katie
Stop talking or I will argue hard.
01:49:26
Ben
Sideboard, sidebar.
01:49:28
Case
Well, I mean I think this movie isn't structured in a way that it has to be in opposition to anything else. It doesn't lock you out from any other lore. It could be double mumbo jumbo all over the place if you. We really needed so. But I do like that as a concept right there because damn, their weapons are so cool.
01:49:48
Ben
It's a linchpin. I'm not, definitely not going to bait.
01:49:50
Katie
Katie about investiture and them using the. It's fine. It's fine.
01:49:57
Ben
If I say, if I say linchpin one more time, she's going to say.
01:50:00
Katie
Lynchpin one more time. I'm going to get up out of this chair and go into your office and punch you.
01:50:06
Case
Katie and Ben, before this, this recording happened, I sent a couple links over, one of which was a YouTube video from the. The channel D4 which is one I like that does like build designs for all the characters and did a. A series of builds in D and D for the. The. The three here. We can all agree they're like barred locks, right?
01:50:27
Katie
Yeah.
01:50:28
Ben
Yeah, that feels right.
01:50:29
Katie
Yeah.
01:50:29
Case
Yeah. Like back to the blade plus some kind of bard.
01:50:33
Katie
A hundred percent.
01:50:34
Case
Yeah.
01:50:34
Katie
There's nothing else that makes sense. I guess you could have a weird bard fighter multi. But I don't. I, I like. I like Bardlock better.
01:50:42
Case
Yeah.
01:50:45
Ben
Incredibly charismatic. Yeah. Yeah. It tracks stat line wise. 100.
01:50:49
Sam
Yeah.
01:50:52
Katie
Glad that we. Glad we agree.
01:50:54
Case
Yeah. Just wanted to throw that one out there. I mean I guess you could. I guess Zoe might be Like a soul knife somewhere in there just because of the. Of the.
01:51:01
Sam
The.
01:51:01
Case
Or the energy knives.
01:51:02
Ben
But you could also probably make an argument for like Mira taking like a one level dip into barbarian.
01:51:08
Katie
Oh.
01:51:09
Case
Oh, yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that one out there because the two of you are on this cast and it's hard for us not to talk about D and D. It's. It's remarkable that we've gone two hours without bringing it up.
01:51:19
Sam
That's how good this movie is.
01:51:22
Case
Yeah.
01:51:22
Ben
Yeah. If that's. Yeah, that actually, that's the scale. How many hours could you sit with your friends who you normally play D and D with and talk about this thing before you. You bring up D and D. Custom.
01:51:34
Katie
K Pop Demon Hunter Handbook, though, would be very interesting and very cool and someone should do that.
01:51:40
Ben
I'd play that.
01:51:42
Sam
That'd be very cool.
01:51:43
Katie
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:51:46
Case
No campaign that I'd run.
01:51:50
Katie
I would hope so.
01:51:54
Ben
I feel like would have to be statistically wildly overpowered to make up for than his nature. So maybe an NPC kind of quest giver, maybe. Yeah.
01:52:06
Case
Yeah, I see npc.
01:52:08
Ben
Yeah. Like two also, like as. As somebody more familiar potentially frequently gets stuck being the dm. I want that character. You. The players don't get to take that.
01:52:17
Katie
It could. It could be a fun familiar, though.
01:52:19
Sam
Yeah, it could be.
01:52:20
Ben
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Wouldn't you want the magpie, though?
01:52:24
Case
Oh, the magpie is definitely a familiar. The question is Derpy also?
01:52:28
Ben
Yeah, I just feel like the advantages of a one familiar are pretty similar.
01:52:33
Katie
You get one familiar, you don't get choices. It's just magi.
01:52:36
Sam
Well, and also, no offense to Derpy, but he's a little bit of a familiar. That's going to be kind of a hard thing. You're going to try to sneak. It shouldn't be a familiar to like, he couldn't best friends with a rogue because Derpy's going to give you away.
01:52:54
Ben
I mean, he does what it says on the box. Right? Like you know what you're getting.
01:52:57
Case
Yeah, he derps.
01:52:58
Katie
Yeah.
01:53:00
Case
All right, so let's have some final thoughts here. Katie and Ben, we've talked a lot. Let's have the two of you talk. Katie, what are your final thoughts on this movie?
01:53:08
Katie
Oh, God. I just. It's such a beautiful piece of art musically, visually. The story is just so fun and wonderful. And I think that the biggest thought that I have is just that I want more in this universe and I want to learn more about the history of The Hunters. And I want to learn more about Selene and about Mira and about Zoe and just to explore sort of the canon and the lore of this world.
01:53:43
Case
Totally. Yeah. Thank God it's a success because we're guaranteed more stuff. Stuff in this world. Hopefully it lives up to what we've gotten so far because this is such a great. Just an amazing amuse bouche for a potentially deep world that is out there.
01:53:59
Katie
Yeah. And so accessible too. I feel like, especially for like really young kids, there's not a lot of complex world building in shows for like one and two year olds. I feel like this might be as. I mean you could probably speak to it more than I could, but I feel like this is one of the more sort of complex narratives that can really appeal to like super young children.
01:54:23
Case
Yes. And I just want to emphasize again for the audience, my daughter loves this goddamn movie. And my daughter is two and a half. She calls it the singing one and she adores it most of the time when she's not talking about Peppa Pig.
01:54:36
Sam
I will put a disclaimer though. She does have heavy bard energy.
01:54:39
Katie
So I mean that makes sense.
01:54:43
Sam
Sense.
01:54:43
Katie
But I feel like that mute. The music from this movie is like. It kind of just transcends what people are into or what people like or preferences for different types of story because it's really, it is magical. It's so good. Ben, it's your turn.
01:55:00
Case
Ben, how about you? Final thoughts?
01:55:01
Ben
I. I genuinely, I don't know that I have that much to add. I think watching it with zero expectation was spectacular. I do, I do wonder if people's perception of it over time has changed as they have, you know, as like first time watchers who are getting to it later and later because it has so much hype behind it. And I do wonder if. If were afforded a somewhat unique experience in that, like it blew up in my algorithm about three days after we watched it the first time. Wow.
01:55:31
Katie
I didn't know algorithm was catching up to me.
01:55:34
Ben
Yeah, yeah, for sure. But it was, you know, walking into the viewing experience or really sitting down to it with zero expectation for what it was going to be and then being greeted with such a spectacularly satisfying experience from like Katie said, from a visual perspective, from a musical perspective, from a storytelling perspective, from a world building perspective was really delightful. I would love if at some point one of the stories that they tell is just like how the Hunters came to be properly. Like, how does that happen? What does that process look like, that is something that I would happily sit down and listen to, especially if there's more music. But yeah, I don't. I don't really have that much to add other one, other than that.
01:56:15
Sam
It's just.
01:56:15
Case
It's totally fair.
01:56:16
Ben
It's a bop all around.
01:56:17
Case
Yeah. Big old bop.
01:56:20
Ben
Yeah.
01:56:20
Case
Sam, do you have any final thoughts?
01:56:22
Sam
Well, I, you know, I'm right along with Ben here. I love a prequel film. I also, I have to say, and I forgot this when I was talking about references, but they actually like modeled the hunters throughout the years and especially when you get into the modern era based on famous.
01:56:42
Case
I was about to say that I. I love the. I love the flashback to the different.
01:56:47
Sam
So they actually like, kind of like, you know, kind of made reference to. To those Korean groups and. And I think that's so really nice and such a beautiful nod to like just. Just music as it's evolved and. Yeah. And so I would love. I mean, like, any generation would be really cool to see. Certainly the first would be great. But I think that the challenge with that is that you'd have to try to match the music to that. I think if you really want to. And so it really depends. But I think it would be really fun to do like early K pop or even like one of the 1950s groups and just kind of stretch and challenge the writers. I'm sure it will just follow our three ladies. I just think that would be so cool.
01:57:34
Sam
And I would love the story about Celine and Rumi's parents. You know, to see that generation just before and watch that love story. I think that. That there's enough in there and it would add to the story that we already saw. Like, we already had some knowledge of Celine. And I think that generally people genuinely would like to know more about Rumi's parents and what happened to them and why she was just left in Selene's care. And you know, who kind of slightly begrudgingly took upon, you know, took this child upon herself to raise her and use her power to try to seal the Hanmoon for good. And yeah, I think the story is beautiful. I also think it's really romantic for a man to die to become your sword so you can strike down your enemies. So I love this movie.
01:58:32
Sam
Yeah, shout out to Ginu, who's now a sword.
01:58:36
Case
Yeah, well, we shouldn't give Jinu too much of a pass. He is also a toxic fuckboy.
01:58:43
Sam
Well, to be fair, there's no. There's no other way that he could have redeemed himself other than sacrificing his life and then becoming his sacrifice at the end is, yes, he's got to do that. And, like, that's fine. Like, this movie is about accepting everyone even when they're not perfect. So, like, it's okay. Like, she's not ne. It's not necessarily excusing the things he did, but at the end, he did the right thing. And also, he became a sword so she could strike down her enemies. And I love that for Ruby.
01:59:17
Case
A cloudbuster sword. Like, yeah, no, I, I, I'm really glad that we had this conversation just because it's such a fun movie to talk about. And, like, most of my conversation, like, I've talked to my wife a lot about it, but, like, I, it's, most of my conversations have been with my daughter about this. And, you know, it's a very particular kind of thing where it's like, oh, okay, yeah, which one do you like? Oh, you really like Zoe? Yeah. All right. Like, which is all cute and adorable because she's two and a half. And it's, it's so fucking sweet. But at the same time, I'm just really glad to be able to hang out with y' all and just kind of gush about a movie for two hours here.
01:59:55
Case
So on that note, Katie and Ben, where can people find you and follow you? Thank you. Thank you for being here. So people should check out the stuff.
02:00:03
Ben
That you do for sure.
02:00:04
Katie
I'm on most social media atymara. Mara is M E H E R A Ben and I both sometimes stream on amateurish productions, and we also. Well, depending on when this podcast comes out, we'll have our level 20 actual play podcast. Episode one will be coming sometime between December 2025 and January 2026, and that will be wherever pods are casted and will be under the amateurish umbrella.
02:00:35
Case
Okay, Ben, what about your social medias?
02:00:38
Ben
I exist, I guess, sort of on social media. BenM Squared. I don't really use them that much.
02:00:46
Katie
Either one of uses them that much.
02:00:49
Ben
Yeah, like, you know, I used Twitter, and then it got bought, and then I stopped using Twitter and Blue sky is a thing, but I think if it weren't for the fact that my password and login information is saved in a password manager, I certainly would not use it anymore. My Instagram's private. Like, you know, I exist on the Internet, but not really.
02:01:08
Case
Okay.
02:01:08
Ben
But, you know, to Katie's point, we do have the podcast coming out which we're very excited to do. It's been a lot of work. Work putting it together. So we're.
02:01:16
Katie
We're still scored, which is very exciting.
02:01:19
Case
Oh, damn.
02:01:20
Ben
Yeah, it's like, legit.
02:01:21
Case
Talk about a musical.
02:01:22
Katie
Yeah. Actually, while were on this recording, we got discorded the first fully finished, scored episode. So super excited to listen to that.
02:01:31
Case
Oh, that's awesome.
02:01:32
Ben
Yeah.
02:01:34
Case
Well, people should find you and follow you. Check out. Check out your podcast. I don't know how this is all going to play out with podcast time. It's really weird. This is a monthly show, so when we record, it is often very far in the future. So it is likely that your show will have dropped by the time this comes out.
02:01:49
Katie
Awesome.
02:01:50
Ben
Cool.
02:01:50
Katie
Well, listen to it. It's good.
02:01:52
Ben
Crazy how Twitter got purchased by somebody else and then turned back into Twitter. That's wild. I'm just gonna put that out into the Internet to put it out in theater. Hey, you know, make it happen.
02:02:03
Case
If only.
02:02:04
Katie
Oh, my gosh. Wait, everything's in America. That's crazy.
02:02:10
Ben
All right, Katie. We have to keep it somewhat realistic. Come on, now.
02:02:17
Katie
Anyway, no, wait.
02:02:19
Sam
You know what? Overshoot.
02:02:20
Case
I'm legitimately afraid of what I could say that might bring the Secret Service.
02:02:24
Ben
To my front door.
02:02:24
Sam
No, no, it's fine, Katie. You overshoot, and then we accept what we get. Right. We're going to ask for more.
02:02:31
Katie
Yeah, if we get 50% of the way there, I would be.
02:02:34
Sam
Exactly.
02:02:35
Ben
We're negotiating with the universe.
02:02:38
Sam
Yeah.
02:02:39
Case
Every single Republican politician had a.
02:02:44
Ben
Hey, listen, I'll settle for half.
02:02:46
Katie
Yeah, so true. So true. Hey, give me, like, 10 solid heart attacks, and we're gonna be in a good place.
02:02:53
Case
Oh, my God. Well, they'll be. No, they won't be in the Good Place.
02:02:58
Ben
Or they could be in the good place as portrayed by the Good Place.
02:03:01
Katie
Great TV show. Fantastic.
02:03:03
Ben
That's a TV show. We should do an episode with you guys about at some point.
02:03:06
Katie
That's not a movie.
02:03:07
Ben
It's okay.
02:03:10
Case
We could come up with some bs,.
02:03:11
Ben
But just pick an episode at random.
02:03:16
Case
No, but again, thank you so much for coming on. It's been too long since we did the Dungeons and Dragons episode together.
02:03:23
Katie
Thank you for having us.
02:03:25
Ben
Which was also, obviously, for listeners who have not listened to it, also a fifth episode, because nothing went wrong with that, and it was a great movie, and it's perfect. The original.
02:03:33
Case
For the record, we're not talking about the new Dungeons and Dragons movie, which actually probably would qualify for a fifth episode. We are talking about the 2000.
02:03:41
Katie
2001.
02:03:43
Case
Yeah. One with Marlon Wayans, which is just.
02:03:47
Katie
It is.
02:03:49
Ben
It's a masterpiece. I don't know why you guys are making these noises.
02:03:54
Case
Sam, where can people find you and follow you?
02:03:56
Sam
They can find me on the Discord. Even if you don't see me, I'm there lurking. And then they can find me here when the episodes drop. And if you have any problem with anything I said or you have any corrections about anything, because, again, I am not like an authority on Korean culture. So you can find K sat.
02:04:19
Case
Well, yes, please come at me, y'. All. I am still on most of the social medias, Aiken, except for Instagram, where I'm holding on 4 dear life to my AIM screen name from high school, which was Quetzalcoatl 5 because I was pretentious then and still am. Q, U, E, T, Z, A, L, C, O. Yeah, there we go, right there. Yeah. So you can find me on all those social media platforms. The Discord is a really good place to find us. It's a good spot there. You can also find us@ certainpov.com where you can find tons of other great shows, including some stuff from amateur productions. What the fuck is on there? How the fuck?
02:04:56
Ben
How the fuck?
02:04:57
Case
How the fuck? Yeah, but we do have some people that we have to shout out. We do have a Patreon going for the show now, which has been going strong. It is a wonderful service that we have been trying to provide all kinds of content. So even people joining at the free tier get a ton of cool stuff, including essays that I write each week. One about a D and D topic, the other about a nerd topic of my choice. But at higher levels, you get clips of the show ahead of time, you get sneak peeks at other kinds of things. And for those who join at the executive producer tier, you get a shout out at the end of each podcast episode.
02:05:29
Case
So I've got a few people to shout out right now, and that is Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir Lee, Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Master, Piero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Keith Lettinen. So if you want to be awesome and jump in at the executive producer level, we would really appreciate it. It's helpful to have stuff to keep this all going. We've been doing this for a long time now. It's nice that people have said that. Yes, they appreciate us. We'd love some more. So consider it. Otherwise, you can check out the show anywhere you get your podcast, you can find us on the YouTube channel for certain POV media. So at certain POV media on YouTube you will find this.
02:06:13
Case
You will find Men of Steel, you will find all the stuff that I'm working on our YouTube channel that recently cracked 40,000 subscribers at the time of this recording, which is just incredible to say out loud. So yeah, like, statistically you probably are listening to this on YouTube. So what am I telling you? This is not news. But. But yeah, thank you. You, thank you for that. Next time we will be back with a regular episode for the show. Sam, what are we talking about next time?
02:06:39
Sam
Next time we'll be talking about Highlander 2 the Quickening. But until then, if you enjoyed this, I'll sit on.
02:06:50
Ben
Thanks for listening to Certain Point of.
02:06:52
Case
View's another past podcast. Don't miss an episode. Just subscribe and review the show on icing itunes. Just go to certainpov.com Another pass is.
02:07:03
Sam
A certain POV production. Our hosts are Sam Alicea and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Sofia Richardi. Our logo and episode art is by Case Aiken. Our intro theme is by Vin Macri and our outro theme is by Matt Brogan,.
02:07:20
Case
CPOV certainpov.com.