Episode 149 - Superman (2025) with Addy Thomas

There’s a new Superman movie out so OBVIOUSLY we’re covering it! It’s a big enough deal that we even got CPOV Founder Addy Thomas to come out of podcast retirement and join us for the main discussion! On top of that we solicited feedback from our listeners and, boy, did they deliver! 

Tune in for our thoughts and the thoughts of:

Alex Ramsey, Ben Haslar, Derek Van Dyke, Ed Gross, JD Martin, Jesse Fresco, Jim Fetters, Keith Lehtinen, Lee Greger, Logan Crowley, Matt aka Stormageddon, Michael Stumbo, Nic Woolfe, Richard Snyder, and Ryan Luis Rodriguez

SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts • Spotify • iHeartRADIO • RSS

Overview

• All hosts rate the new Superman movie highly, with Case giving it an A- to B+ and considering it top-tier for superhero films.

• David Corensweat impresses in dual roles as Clark Kent and Superman, particularly excelling in the interview scene.

• Nicholas Hoult's Lex Luthor is characterized by classic traits and multifaceted motives, earning positive remarks from the hosts.

• Mr. Terrific, portrayed by Eddie Gathegi, delivers a standout performance reminiscent of Reed Richards in the Fantastic Four.

• The film skips a traditional origin story, presenting Superman within an established world and focusing on his first major defeat.

• Practical effects and cinematography recreate a vibrant comic book aesthetic, enhancing the film's overall energy.

• Title criticism arises, suggesting a more specific title would fit better than simply 'Superman.'

• Audience reception is notably positive with families enjoying the film, highlighted for its emotional depth without self-referential humor.

• James Gunn's vision for character development and supporting cast receives praise, generating excitement for the future of the DCU.

• Speculation surrounds potential sequels, contemplating Gunn's involvement in directing or producing.

Notes

️ Introduction and Setup (00:00 - 03:00)

• Men of Steel podcast hosts Case Aiken and Jmike Folson discuss the new Superman movie (2025) with returning guest Addy Thomas, co-founder of Certain Point of View.

• Addy Thomas returns after 'easily 100 episodes' absence, last appeared before Case became a father.

• Discussion of hosts' contrasting perspectives: J. Mike is the Superman fan but cynical, Case is the 'Superman hater' but optimistic.

Overall Movie Reception (04:18 - 39:35)

• All three hosts are positive about the movie, with Case rating it A minus to B plus and considering it a 'top tier superhero movie'.

• Movie succeeds in showing Superman who 'enjoys being Superman' rather than being tortured by his role.

• Film captures the 'Adventures of Superman' swashbuckling quality with kinetic action and Star Wars-like energy.

‍️ Character Analysis and Performances (09:41 - 01:05:01)

• David Corensweat praised for distinguishing between Clark Kent and Superman personas, particularly in interview scene.

• Rachel Brosnahan as Lois Lane receives mixed reactions but generally positive reviews from hosts.

• Nicholas Hoult as Lex Luthor delivers 'classic Lex' performance with multifaceted plans and clear motivations.

• Guy Gardner (Nathan Fillion) praised as perfectly capturing the character's over-the-top, buffoonish nature.

Supporting Characters and Justice Gang (15:42 - 01:37:12)

• Mr. Terrific (Eddie Gathegi) standout performance, compared to Reed Richards role in Fantastic Four-style team.

• Metamorpho (Anthony Carrigan) given compelling arc with kidnapped son storyline.

• Hawkgirl criticized as least developed character, with J. Mike disappointed it's Kendra rather than Shayera.

• Supergirl cameo at end confirms she's partying on red sun worlds to get drunk.

Story Structure and Themes (21:21 - 01:16:29)

• Movie starts 'in the middle of an established world' similar to MCU Spider-Man approach, skipping traditional origin story.

• Central theme involves Superman's 'first major defeat' and learning to mature as a hero.

• Pa and Ma Kent remain alive and supportive, representing post-Crisis Superman approach.

• Kryptonian message twist reveals Jor-El and Lara sent Clark to conquer Earth, not save it.

Technical and Production Elements (36:42 - 01:57:55)

• John Williams theme extensively used throughout with effective orchestral arrangements.

• Metropolis set in Delaware detail praised as smart comic book reference.

• Practical effects and cinematography create vibrant, comic book-brought-to-life aesthetic.

• Pacing praised as 'pitch perfect' with no moments feeling dragged.

️ Criticisms and Concerns (31:05 - 01:37:12)

• Title criticism: Should be 'Superman: Something' rather than just 'Superman' as it feels like a sequel.

• Daily Planet staff underutilized in Act 3, particularly Steve Lombard and Cat Grant.

• Engineer as villain somewhat underdeveloped, though sets up potential redemption arc.

• Hawkgirl lacks character development and motivation compared to other Justice Gang members.

Fan Community Response (01:49:07 - 02:01:11)

• Multiple fan voice messages praising the film's earnest emotional approach without self-referential humor.

• Positive audience reactions noted, with families and children particularly engaged.

• Comparison to Christopher Reeve Superman in terms of capturing character's essential goodness.

Future Implications (01:43:18 - 02:45:42)

• James Gunn's approach to character development and supporting cast elevation praised.

• DCU Phase One 'Gods and Monsters' theme generates excitement for future projects.

• Potential sequels discussed, with speculation about whether Gunn will direct or produce.

Technical Production Notes (02:52:51 - 02:54:17)

• Upcoming episodes announced: Episode 150 discussing Super/Man documentary, Episode 151 on Class War comic series.

Transcription

00:00
So if you can record locally, awesome. If you can't, that's fine. We're recording this. Yeah.

00:05
You know me, you're.

00:07
Yeah, I know. But you have no idea, like, what we deal with these days.

00:12
Yeah, I bet. I bet.

00:28
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I'm joined by my co host, J. Mike Folson.

00:35
Oh, it's a great day, Case. The start of a brand new era of Superman.

00:42
Yeah.

00:42
So happy.

00:44
Yeah. So we're not gonna beat around the bush here. We are doing an episode on the Superman movie because it's the Superman movie and this is a Superman podcast. Of course, it would be kind of crazy if we didn't do an episode about the Superman movie. And it would be even crazier if weren't thinking about until the last minute and then decided to do it.

01:02
But that, I mean, who does that? That's crazy. What are you talking about?

01:05
That would be nice. But so, yeah, we're talking about the new Superman movie. Superman parentheses 2025 as I'm going to have to list it because God damn it, there was already a Superman movie. So now this is yet another one. But to have the conversation about Superman 2025, we are joined by Adi Thomas.

01:26
Hey, thanks for having me, guys.

01:27
Addy, it is so great to have you back, buddy.

01:30
Yeah, it's been way too long.

01:31
I know. It's been easily 100 episodes.

01:35
Yeah. The last time I was on, you weren't a father, so.

01:39
That is true. Yeah.

01:40
Yeah.

01:41
A lot of things are different nowadays.

01:43
Yes. J. Mike was still young. I know, right? Uncynical. I don't know about that. No, that's never been true. Here's one thing I will have to call out real quick because it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that Jay Mike is the Superman fan and I am the self professed and well documented Superman hater. Because J. Mike's heart is cold and dead inside. You know, if you need someone to pour an ice bucket on your hopes and dreams, J. Mike is who you go to better explain it. He's the reality check that I sometimes need to curb my am imagination and my ambitions. That's where he's a very valuable friend that you need. You need someone to like. Okay, like, let's. Let's. Let's just put some reality on this. Let's understand what's. What's the actual truth of this situation.

02:41
He seems like he should be the. The Batman fan. And I should be the Superman fan because I'm like, the one who's like trying to find weird, like, optimism everywhere, you know, it's. That's kind of true, actually. Like, Leading up to this, Addie was the one who was really hope else. And I was like, I don't know, man. I'm kind of nervous about it. He's like, oh, man, it's. It's gonna be a great movie. And I was like, I don't know. I've been hurt too many times. And Addie's the one being cheerful and uplifting. And I was like, I had a lot of faith in Jason. That's, that's the thing that I, I, that helped me on this one.

03:17
Yeah. And that's totally fair. And, and I think that, like, Addie, you're just due for like, the right property to like, fully bring you over to this 100% is sometimes hard to do. Superman has not had a great film track record. Like, let' that one. I, I think we're all in agreement. Before we get into like, a deep discussion here, we're all pretty positive about this movie, right?

03:41
Yeah. Yes. I, I will say not only am I positive about this movie, and obviously I'm like, we're pretty fresh off the heels of this movie. Like, we went to see it two days ago. Yeah. I would say that I am like, this is very, like, not just a top tier DC movie, but a top tier superhero movie or comic book movie in general. Like, this is high up. This ranks pretty high up for me. I don't, I don't have any specific rankings. I'm not, I'm not about to or anything. I, I will say this.

04:15
Addie was like, super happy after because.

04:18
His, his Green Lantern survived the entire movie. Right. He didn't get the crap beat out.

04:23
Of him in the, like, the prologue.

04:24
Like a Zack Snyder movie or anything. It made it.

04:29
So peek behind the curtains. When were talking about doing this episode, there was a little bit of a, like, let's see how this movie is before, like, Addie commits to like, coming on an episode. And I saw the movie Tuesday because Amazon prime did like, a special deal for early screens. And I was like, yeah, obviously I'm gonna go see it early if I can. And saw it. And immediately I was like, I'm not worried.

04:56
I'm not worried at all because of.

04:59
How goddamn good Guy Gardner is in this movie. I knew it right there. But before we go too deep into a conversation about this movie, Adi, you have been on the show, but it's been a long ass time. Who the fuck are you?

05:15
At this point? I'm not really a personality online anymore. So that may change in the future. It's always kind of in the plans. Obviously when Certain Point of View was in its infancy. I wanna say that was late 2015 maybe. Cause it would've been soon after Lucasfilm was bought out by Disney was when it was around Force Awakens, I believe. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. So actually it would've been around for Awakens.

05:44
Well, Force Awakens came out right when the show launched.

05:47
Yes, that's right.

05:48
Because I made sure to rewatch it in favor when I came on for the first time and I was the first episode that was not pre batched.

05:57
Yes. Yeah, you. Yeah, you were our first guest. And so yes, we launched the show around Force Awakens. And yeah, like so that was early Certain Point of View, you know, when it was supposed to be just a Star wars podcast. Very quickly turned into more of a general nerd podcast. And there were many pivots from there. But we had the early version of another pass, the Scruffy Nerf Herders. Which, you know, I'm still, you know, looking forward to continue some stories, you know, if that ever happens to open up for in your busy schedule, if you're down.

06:31
I. I do want to. I. Okay, so let. So you didn't. That's a whole other conversation for listeners who don't know who Adi Thomas is. And shame on you because Addy is a great guy, but Addie Thomas is one of the co founders of Certain Point of View.

06:46
Yep. That is a way to put it. Yes.

06:48
Yeah.

06:51
So.

06:53
Just want to give props there. And as a result, because Men of Steel is a spin off show to Certain Point of View, in a sense, you are the parent of this project. Now the reason you're the parent of this project is because you and Ben would shit on Superman all the time. We would do scraping Neuroperters point of view D and D game that we ran set inside the Star wars universe. We would hang out and you guys would shit on super and J. Mike and I would be like, yeah, Superman's not that bad.

07:22
He's cool, you know, he's a cool guy. Yeah, yeah.

07:24
And then I was like, J Mike, do you want to like record this? Yeah, that's the Birth of Men of Steel.

07:32
Yeah. We put you guys in a corner.

07:35
So that's who you are. And, like, I'm so glad to get you back on this one because you and I famously shared a brain during the run of Certain Point of View, that it was you, Ben and I had the same voice. You and I had the same brain. And that's why I couldn't be a guest on every episode because it got too goddamn confusing.

07:54
That is very true. Yeah. Yeah. More than one instance that I remember. Yeah. Yeah.

08:00
I had the issue. I would listen to an episode and be like, wait, who said that? And I was there. But, like, you know, look like we're not as close as we used to be, just by virtue of the fact that, like, we used to podcast together and so, like, we would hang out all the time. But, like, we've been in touch over the years. Like, we've still been friends. Like, people have wondered, like, what happened to you. And, like, the truth is just, you're busy. You gotta. You gotta life.

08:29
Like, you know, there was this pandemic that hit and then there was, you know, we tried, you know, reevaluate, like, try to redo. You know, we stepped away from. From the nerd podcasting with the intention of starting some new projects that just haven't materialized. Like, I got a couple that I'm working on that I can't really talk about just yet, but, you know, hopefully it may not be a podcast, but we'll see. We'll see what happens in the near future. So I don't have anything to promote. I'm just here to have fun with. To my boys.

09:01
Yeah, well, and I. But the reason why I don't want to, like, understate, like, the importance that you and Ben had that, like, I wouldn't be a podcaster without you guys. So, like, having you back on means so much to me because it has been a long ass time and, like, I've missed you, buddy. But also when I saw this movie, I knew immediately that you were gonna fuck with it because, like, Gardner is so goddamn good in this movie. And so why don't we just like, start with conversations about things that we really fucking liked? And I really like Guy Gardner. He's amazing. Nathan Fillion is so good in this movie.

09:37
Yeah, Justice Gang. I mean, the Justice Gang bit is so good. I mean, if I was. While I was being optimistic with J. Mike, because J. Mike and I share a car ride two days a week on the way into work, and I can't tell you how often we talked about this movie, and J. Mike was not kidding. When he was talking about how apprehensive he was about this movie. And I was definitely putting on a brave face. I did feel good in my core about this movie, especially because I remember hearing an interview with James Gunn several years back where when he talked about Superman, the movie, and he talked about a particular smile that the Christopher Reeve Superman has. Just the fact that he enjoys being Superman was such a big part of it.

10:29
And that to me alone, said, okay, he understands the character. And then James Gunn lands the ship with Guardians of the Galaxy with volume three. Like, he does. It doesn't feel like he has to outdo himself. He's. He sticks with great character development. He sticks with just, like, what's right for the character, what challenges the character. Look, I love his. The Suicide Squad. I loved Peacemaker season one. I'll say Creature Commandos stretched a little thin for me, but I still enjoyed it. So, like, I'm certified a gun fan, without a doubt. And he tapped into everything that while I'm obviously well documented, as we said, a Superman hater. The moments I have enjoyed Superman, which are like, big fan of that. Even if the story, the run, I wasn't a huge fan of.

11:26
I like the vibe of the action comics, real new 52 reboot. Like that Superman with the jeans. I thought it was always a cool vibe to that one, you know, All Star Superman. Amazing. Superman is just part of the Justice League in the Tim Verse and Superman the Animated Series. Super really good. Maybe not necessarily my favorite, but I will say there's a particular moment like in. In that run, at the near the end of that run where. Where Superman really unleashes himself on Darkseid when he thinks the Flash instead of cardboard speech. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like, it really feels like that was this Superman. Like, I could see that this Superman delivering that. So this one, like, really hit sort of like every.

12:16
Like every little bit of Superman that I've ever enjoyed and more so like, it really felt like it got to the heart of when I've enjoyed Superman. It hit every note of what I enjoy about Superman. So I, Yeah, I honestly, I don't have any real criticisms of this movie.

12:37
I. I do. And we'll get into those.

12:40
We'll get there. Maybe. Maybe I'll have something by then.

12:42
Yeah, like I did a. A first reactions video just because, like, it's Superman specifically. And, like, we've started to get enough, like, attention online that it seemed like I should do it. And it's fairly glowing. But there's the undercurrent of. There are some caveats, and I didn't want to go into them because a lot of them are about, like, the actual nature of the movie.

13:05
Sure. Should we do, like, a spoiler warning for this podcast or. Yeah, right now, we still have stayed spoiler free.

13:11
Yeah, we have been spoiler free so far. But, like, I will say it's good. I have seen it twice. This is the Saturday after it opened. I saw it the two. I saw it three days before it opened and then I saw it the day it opened, and I was very happy both times. It's good. It's worth going to see. So, yes, that. That is your. That. That is the spoiler free review with the. The basic caveat of don't expect it to be the definitive Superman movie. Expected to be a good Superman movie. And you're. You're in a really good headspace for this movie. And if you want to hear more, we're going to keep on talking, but we're going to go into some spoilers. I will say, before we go into those spoilers, this isn't a movie that I feel.

14:02
Is that spoiler a bull? I think that once the movie started, it was pretty clear how all the scenes from the trailer fit together. Like, yeah, I wasn't surprised by anything aside from maybe like, oh, that's how this piece fits in. But it wasn't like, in weird ways. There's no big twist that I was like, oh, my God. Like, that, like, that just doesn't happen in this movie. This movie is.

14:29
I mean, that happened to me at.

14:31
Like, the very end, at the very.

14:32
The last scene at the. The Fortress of Solitude.

14:36
I. I audibly guess when Cara showed up. Okay, well, yes, all right.

14:40
But that's not even that big of.

14:42
A spoiler because she was announced.

14:44
Yeah, yeah. And she was announced. I was like. I was like. And he was like, you didn't know.

14:53
Yeah. And that was so for. For people who are wondering, yes, Supergirl shows up. It's not a big part. It was already announced beforehand. It's not a big spoiler.

15:03
It's not even really a, like, particularly key to the story. No, she. Well, I mean, kind of. She shows up to pick up the dog and that's it. Yeah.

15:13
Inclusion is great because it does confirm. It's like, it's a payoff for the whole, like, Clark never says, my dog. He always says the dog.

15:21
The dog. The dog.

15:22
Yeah, it's like, it's more of a situation. And it's like, oh, that's how this all works. And that's. That makes it clear, like, why. Why Krypto is not better trained. And you're like, oh, it's because Krypto is with, like, someone who babies him and, like, doesn't, like, teach him to do, like, any kind of behavioral stuff, like, part of Gilkara. Okay. So a lot of people are, like, really mad about this one. So we know that the movie that they are adapting for the Supergirl movie in two years is based on Supergirl, Woman of Tomorrow. And the opening of that is that she turns 21 and she goes to a red sun world so that she can actually celebrate it.

16:00
Right? Yeah.

16:01
So they. They deal with that here.

16:04
I.

16:04
You know, I think a lot of people are making too big of a thing of it because it's a James Gunn movie. And so, like, everything is played for a joke if it can be played for a joke.

16:12
Right?

16:13
Well.

16:13
Well, I mean, Clark says it. He's like.

16:15
He's talking to four. He's like, oh, yeah, well, she likes to go party.

16:19
And, like, yellow sun, you can't get drunk.

16:21
Red sun. She goes, and she can actually get drunk there.

16:23
And for. It was like, okay. And kind of, like, turn to the side.

16:28
Yeah, I saw people harp on that bit a little too much. They were like, if she goes to the red sun world to get drunk.

16:34
How does she get back?

16:35
I'm like, how does she get there in the first place? She can't, like, fly to the planet with a red sun. Like, she will die before she arrives. Yeah, potentially. Or at the very least, like, this is a world with spaceships. Clearly.

16:46
Like, yeah. I mean, we've got Mr. Terrific already. Like, it's one thing that I. Honestly, one of my favorite things about this movie is that we do what a New Hope did so well all those years ago. And it just started in the middle of an established world with a lot going on. I'm glad we didn't try to slow down for an origin story. I think, like, Superman, we've gotten to that same point where we've gotten with a lot of heroes. You know, we've definitely. I mean, obviously Batman and Spidey, we don't need an origin movie. I'd make the argument for a lot of heroes, we don't need an origin story ever again.

17:24
Certainly not Superman. In the grand scheme of. Does the pop culture need to learn about the origin of Superman? Superman is the best known character on the planet.

17:37
Yeah. Right. And I would even say that with the caveat that it's not even like we've gotten. It's not like we've even been overexposed to the origin of. No, it's really only two in the same way. Right, Exactly. And both of them have been very cool, too, to be perfectly honest. Even though, like, I don't particularly like man of Steel. Like, that was sort of a pretty cool opening, you know? And obviously, for Superman, the movie, it's great. But it's funny, it's not gotten to that pearls on crime battle. Okay, we're ready to move past that. So again, I'm happy to have jumped past that and even sort of Pon Ma Kent, you know, in, like, young Superman, young Clark in Kansas. It's not. I wouldn't say that I don't want that ever again. That I'm down to see something in the future.

18:33
Maybe not necessarily for this particular story or this universe, but I think we can move, like, get to Metropolis, get to Superman being Superman and Superman enjoying being Superman, which I think is like, a big part of this movie, is that he truly enjoys being who he is. He's not tortured. He's not. Not like, this is my curse, and this is. This is my burden to bear. Like, he loves doing this. And even though it is a burden, it is not something that he. He's like, he wants to throw off. You mean that having a supportive father can actually, like, help you be, like, a good hero? I don't. I don't know. I've never had that. Stop. God dang it.

19:18
I was gonna think.

19:21
Why.

19:21
Why are you, like, j. Mike?

19:23
I was gonna say, like, why don't.

19:23
You leave that foot deeply in your mouth right now.

19:26
No, I was gonna say, like, not.

19:28
Having a dad tell you to f.

19:29
Those kids is kind of important. It was teaching you how to be a hero. For me. I did, and I should know better by now, but I didn't. I gave you the alley. You just dunked it right there. You gave me the alley, and I ripped those pearls right off is maybe how.

19:49
Yeah, Well, I mean, so. So, yeah, like, this. This movie obviously has Pa Kent alive, which is like, a big variation from, like, the Chris Reeve movie and man of Steel, where just the decision was like, oh, yeah, Pa's dead, but Ma's alive. Which is, like, specific to the movies up until this point. Like, well, Superman and Lois, like, embrace that as a thing. But, like, original Superman media, Ma and Pa can't die before he becomes Superman. And all through the comics leading up until the crisis on Infinite Earths the manpaw's death was the trigger for him to go from Superboy to Superman.

20:26
Right.

20:27
And then we get Crisis on infinite Earths. And I think that the post crisis Superman is one that very much is in conversation with the Superman of this movie. And the big innovation of that was that Ma and PA were still alive and that they could be a supportive figure and that they could be part of his cast. And that carried over into the Animated Series and has car over into specific adaptations of it. But is a newer idea for Superman. And I think it works for, like, in a good way, it juveniles Superman to have his parents be still alive. But I think that's actually useful for part of his arc to see him as a struggling superhero who has parents to go to. And that used to be taken over by the Superboy timeline for the character.

21:26
Like, his whole learning curve, his Smallville era is him, you know, going and trying to figure out how to be a hero. And then Superman is. He's figured it out. And I think that the John Byrne era Superman, who is the Animated Series Superman, who is this Superman? Having his parents still be alive is a way for us to relate to the character because he is still learning some of the things. Like, he's only been Superman for three years in this movie. Like, he's established, but he's not, like, he's not like a veteran. You know, like, he just lost his first fight.

22:00
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Which was. I think Addie touched up this while.

22:06
We were watching the movie. He was like, okay, cool.

22:07
They're not playing out like the.

22:09
The typical, like, origin story.

22:10
We're doing it like the kind of like a crawl, basically. It was like it was 300 years ago. Like, the metahumans first showed up. And then 33, then 3. And I was like, okay, that's kind of cool, because I forget which movie it was. I don't know if it was Superman Return to Something else, but it was like, last on a Krypton, last sun land on Earth, and something like that. It just. He just told you flat out. And it kept moving.

22:33
Definitely All Star, but probably Returns. I can't remember exactly how that opens, but Returns opens with a crawl of some kind of.

22:41
Yeah, yeah. I don't remember. I just remembered the big. The opening action scene was the plane scene, if I remember right.

22:48
Well, the opening of Superman Returns him. But the observing the waste of Krypton in the new, like, comes back to Earth.

22:54
Oh, is that what it was? Okay. Oh, yeah, you're right. I Do actually remember that now, because it was. Yeah. Because he had been away all that time, Right. Five years. Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. Yeah. That movie has not stuck with me. As much as I love Brandon Routh.

23:10
Yes. But like, the rest of the people involved in that movie, very hard to talk about nowadays.

23:15
Yeah, yeah. For. Yeah, yeah, we can leave that one.

23:20
Yeah, yeah. So we. We have a Superman who is young.

23:25
Like, he.

23:26
I mean, he's 30, but he's. He's young in the sense of, like, he hasn't gotten, like. He hasn't gone through some of the trials. He's. He's been successful all the time. This is his first time losing a fight at the opening of this mov. And that is a thing that happens a bunch in this movie. This is an arc where the character is being forced to confront the fact that, like, him doing the right thing might rub people the wrong way in a way that has ramifications for him. Like, that is the arc of maturity as a character. I've often described Superman as like, the.

24:00
The.

24:01
The childish view of. Of heroism. Like, it's a very simplistic kind of concept of, like, make the bad men stop. As the character like this goes back to the earliest comics. You know, there's the famous. Like, what if Superman actually involved himself in the war and he, like, takes Stalin and Hitler to, like, Geneva and, like, makes, you know, makes them play nice because, like, yeah, the war is bad. And that's true. Like, that. Like, that would be the right thing to do, but it's not nuanced. It's very. Like I said, it's a very simplistic, very childish view of things. And then, like, the quote, unquote, Marvel era is a very adolescent view of it where all the issues are very, like, into. Into your emotions, into that, like, changing into adulthood kind of form.

24:44
And then, like, coming around to the far end of it is like, how do we actually, like, describe, like, an adult version of that? And I think that playing up a Superman who is being forced to confront the. The complications of his actions is how we start to approach that adult concept of a hero, that Superman has done the right thing. And everyone agrees, even. Even Flag Sr. Agrees, that Big Blue did the right thing, even if it was naive. When he's, like, talking, you know, like, talking to the Secretary of Defense, like, it's a scenario where the character is starting to mature into the ultimate hero that he should be. But the movie is letting us watch part of that maturation process.

25:34
Right. Yeah. Which actually makes me Think of and not that we're at a point to really criticize the movie. I would say the biggest thing that was unrealistic about this movie was that the US government was an already invading giant. Well.

25:49
But they have a proxy state in the form.

25:51
That's true. Yeah. They were at least hesitant to do it.

25:58
Yeah.

25:59
But.

26:02
Baravia and Johnpur, like, man, it's not necessarily one to one for any sort of political structure that's going on.

26:10
Here, but it's pretty close.

26:11
Pretty goddamn close.

26:14
Yeah.

26:15
Which I'm personally fine with.

26:20
I will say this movie, like obviously, you know, we're dealing, you know, social media being a big part of this movie was a great touch on it. But I will say that as just as someone who is a little bit more all over the spectrum politically and sometimes has certain issues with the tone of preachiness, very rarely with the message, I will say this movie, what didn't feel preachy to me. Like, it didn't feel like what, what would, what I would consider like the criticism of Woke, which I don't, I typically don't have a problem with. Like, I'm just gonna say like I like the Marvels. I, I, so I'm definitely not. It like it's hard to pin me in a category. But I will say like this wasn't really like that. You know, I liked the acolyte as well.

27:11
So like again, maybe it's just like I disagree with certain things but like the immigrate, the immigrant message didn't seem like something that was really a part of this movie, you know?

27:23
Yeah. People have like called it out and I'm like, wait, this is, it's barely in this movie.

27:28
Like. Yeah, yeah, he like we've seen him. That been addressed in past superhero Superman stories before, you know, but this didn't like, I don't really feel they even called that out in this movie.

27:41
No, I mean like the worst they do is they like discuss him having less rights than a citizen because he's an alien when he like turns himself in.

27:51
Right. Yeah.

27:52
Like I would say that the biggest like message element of this movie and the most heavy handed part of this movie is the Barovia John Por War that's going on.

28:01
Right. The geopolitical part of it as opposed to, and the social media aspect, which I think was more of like just a thing about just general health as opposed to anything political.

28:10
Yeah, I mean that one felt more of a direct vent about James Gunn who was Fired from Marvel because of Internet trolls and, like, trying to represent them as cybernetic Monke.

28:21
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. It was 100%. I think it's like, the worst part about the ending is that those monkeys.

28:29
Are now free out and out in the real world to do whatever they want.

28:32
Yeah.

28:32
But, you know, they could.

28:33
They didn't have the mind control devices on them, though, so that. That's the key part of it. Or. And maybe. Maybe it could spin off into what I'm hoping we get, and that's movie. I want Goret. Well, I would definitely be down for that, but Guerrilla City is what I'm hoping we eventually get. I was like, no, I want Gorilla Grodd, I want Ultra Humanite, and I want a resistance that fights against them.

29:02
Basically, Transformers, apes, but, like, yeah, basically superheroes, too. I'm down for that. You get Gorilla Grodd, you get Ultra Humanite, you get Monsieur Mala, and you get Titano the Super Ape, and you're sacked.

29:16
Yeah, there's a lot of fun territory to run with that, man. Anyway, back to this movie. Yeah, back to this movie.

29:27
All right, why don't I rip the band aid off of my complaints? Because, like, I was very positive in my. Like, here's why you should go see this movie. I give this movie an A minus, maybe a B plus, but, like, I'm settling on an A minus because I liked it enough that I went and saw it twice, and I was, like, really happy both times, and I was smiling and good energy. I think that calling this movie Superman is a mistake. I think that's, like. I think that is the biggest sin of this movie, that it is called just Superman and not Superman Colon something or Superman something.

30:01
Because I can see that they.

30:04
By calling this movie Superman, there is a push to make this the definitive Superman movie. And this movie feels like a sequel. I like the movie a lot. It feels like a really good sequel. It feels like Spider Man 2, like, where we've got established characters and we can now actually, like, dwell in, like, the ramifications of the world that they live in and all the stuff. But it doesn't feel like the definitive Superman movie because it is missing the beats that you would insert if you were trying to tell the Superman story. This is a Superman story. This is. This is picking up with the assumption that, like, you already know the origin, you already know all this stuff. Like, which is fine. Like, we do. Again, we. We don't need it.

30:48
But it, like, in terms of the gravitas of the movie, it's removed, but just by virtue of the fact that it's not that kind of story.

30:58
Or I would make a more of a comparison to Spider Man Homecoming with this.

31:03
Yes. I, I actually have said a lot. It's like the MCU Spider man movies.

31:07
Yeah. And I, I, in all the best ways, I think it feels a lot like that. And even more so, I would say this is like a three episode arc of jlu, you know, this really felt like that. Especially including the Justice King, you know, and hall of justice and all of that. Yeah, that was awesome, right? I mean, you get Metamorpho, you get Guy Gardner, you get Hawkgirl. I mean, you get Mr. Terrific, all four of them, which I thought were absolutely amazing. But I also, I don't know if I would say, maybe you can make an argument that Mr. Terrific was a much more significant character. Not that the other three weren't, obviously, but Mr. Terrific does have a little bit more to do in this movie. But I wouldn't say that any of them have any significant arcs.

31:54
Though I do think Clark's and Superman, and particularly his relationship with Lois are sort of the keys of this movie. So that.

32:05
Yeah.

32:05
So while I agree that like, yeah, you need a colon and maybe like a little statement that's not dawn of justice, but you know, something else. Like, it does still feel very much like a Superman movie. Like the, all the main characters are definitely surrounding cats like Jimmy.

32:22
It's certainly. It's a Superman movie. I definitely was not trying to say it wasn't a Superman movie. Like, yeah, it's just a Superman movie. That is not the first movie in a sequence, if you're looking at it from that perspective. And like I said, or rather like you said, the MCU Spider man movies are a really good comparison there, where they just don't feel the need to be like, well, we don't need to fucking do the origin story anymore. We can just do like, let's pick up with Spider man in high school, which everyone fucking loves. Cool. All right, there we go. This picks up a spider or Superman in a good space. Like where he's an established superhero doing well, he's dating Lois Lane, which is like, you know, puts us a few steps into the whole progression there.

33:07
Right.

33:09
And they don't kind of work around that. They don't do flashbacks, they don't do anything. Like they just assume, you know, or they tell you at a few points, but they just roll into it. And that's my Biggest complaint about this movie where they thrust you into it all. And that is fine for me, but not necessarily fine for everyone.

33:33
Yeah. Do you think this is an issue for people like the normies, the non comic book fandom? Yeah.

33:39
And even for people who are in the know, but just demand that their movies exist in a world or exist in a structure where they tell you who they are.

33:49
That's fair.

33:50
Like, I've pitched movies like this on another pass a lot where, like, I like our Amazing Spider Man's pitch. I was like, well, what if it was a world of super villains? Because. Because everyone already knew all the Spider man stuff. And I was like, well, why don't we just like roll into it as deep as we can? And this is actually doing that. And I think it's good for all the reasons that it's gonna hold up really well in the long run because it's a really good entry in the Superman franchise. But it's still never going to be that definitive Superman movie by virtue of the fact that it's not doing like act one of the Superman stuff. It's in the perpetual second act.

34:28
Right, right. Yeah. That's an interesting observation. I wonder. The thing that excites me about this approach is that we cut. I guess I already talked about cutting past some of the rote stuff of doing an origin story, but it also, I think, just cuts to the heart of Superman. That is the most interesting. There are origin elements to it in that Lois had met Ma and Pa Kent. So we get sort of an intro to them and a re establishment. Even if we don't get that. Even though we didn't. I thought what was really clever is in the end, getting the montage of young Clark was another such a good.

35:20
Way of having all the footage of young Clark with Man Pak Kent without needing us to have flashback scenes.

35:26
Right. And really flashbacks or slowing down that immediate. You know, the immediate part of it, like the original, like the act one. And I think what I really do appreciate about this movie is that this movie, like, I was really surprised that the movie opened with that scene with, you know, Clark in the ice injured. Like, I was like, as soon as I saw that, I was beyond excited that was. I mean, because that's been a clip that they've had out pretty early. You know, it's been in all the trailers and everything. So it was really cool to have that giving context and we get right back into the middle of a fight. I thought the. The pacing of all of this movie to Me was pretty pitch perfect.

36:13
I never felt like I needed to look at my watch or anything at any point in this movie. Like, and here's something I'll say in contrast to that, this movie was very packed, Very packed with a lot, Fairly simple story, but still it was accomplishing a.

36:31
Lot, a lot of stuff.

36:32
Very similar. Exactly. And the Batman with Robert Pattinson I felt was there's a lot in that movie. And it was almost three hours. This movie, on the other hand, was two hours. But I did remember looking at my watch in the Batman, you know, and I've since enjoyed more of that movie.

36:50
I think everyone looked at their watch right when the chase scene with Penguin ends because you can't help but be like, oh, we're pretty close to the end, right?

36:58
There's another hour. Nope. And even the end is dragged out a little. But again, and I actually, in retrospect, I have enjoyed that movie again afterwards. But I will say, for a theater experience, I kind of would have preferred that on the small screen, to be perfectly honest. And which I, I feel is reaffirmed by how much I enjoyed the Penguin. Whereas this was like, this felt like I, I, I talked to one of a mutual friend of, well, a mutual friend of ours that is not planning to see this in theater and is going to stream this, which, you know, I understand just. And the time that it takes to go to the theater, it's not the same experience as it used to be, in my opinion.

37:43
But I will say that, man, like, this is a movie that deserves to be seen on a big screen. Just the kind of how kinetic the movie is, just the energy of it, the editing is right, is like, there's a lot. It's funny, the first thing I said when I saw the original Guardians of the Galaxy, and I was early on really excited for that movie, even though, like, I very, like, had a very rough knowledge of who Rocket and Groot were and that was it. And I remember being super excited for that movie coming out of that movie. And I was like, oh, my God, this is Star Wars. And there's a there felt for me in a lot of the best ways.

38:26
I felt a lot of Star wars comparisons for this movie and this, There was a lot of a new hope energy in this movie, and I really appreciated that. So, yeah, I didn't really have. There's plenty of other things I wanted to say, but I don't know, did you feel that at all in this movie?

38:46
I think there's a swashbuckling quality to the Superman of this movie, which is what we're talking about with Star wars as well. It's a big adventure. The Adventures of Superman is a common title. That was the TV show with George Reeves. That was the comic in the 90s. That was the radio show back in the day. There have been various cartoons with that title. Like, the Adventures of Superman is a thing that should resonate. Like, this is a character who is going on adventures and like, and he's invulnerable and. And brave and smart and, you know, and handsome and like, doesn't have to worry about anything. But like, that just, like, adds to the sort of like, effortless nature of how these adventures go. Like, they're. But there's still these, like, epic stories.

39:31
You know, the original comic that Superman showed up in is action Comics. And the whole detail about that is like, no, there's just like, there's just fucking shit going on all the time that Superman's dealing with or other characters are dealing with. But there's just like, beat, beat, beat for you to deal with. Like, which is why things like the Kaiju fight, which is. Yeah, you could cut that out and it wouldn't change the story at all.

39:53
Nope.

39:54
But it's there for emotional reasons, it's there for character reasons, and it's there for action reasons. And like, yes, I think people underestimate that. Superman should be kinetic and action packed. Like, you talked about the new 52 run. Like, that was such an action driven story for the character where constantly there were just things happening to him and that he had to respond to at super speed because only Superman could respond to it. Because that. That's the level of like, grab you by the balls and just like go kind of things. And this movie embraces a lot of that.

40:30
Yeah. Yeah. And. And what I like though is, you know, he's. This. Superman's got that Luke Skywalker g golly type of excite, like, attitude to him. Like, definitely. Again, very. A new hope Luke Skywalker, I will say. And. And I. I think the other thing is, I like, is even though, like, as. As you said, from a plot perspective, you could cut the Kaiju fight. But I will say from a character perspective, there is so much about Superman. Like, I mean, saving not the squirrel couldn't have been better timed. Yeah. I mean, like, that was. It was perfect. I loved it. Like, this movie had me smiling from beginning to end. Not just smiling. Like, I. I mean, obviously I'm an easy cry. But I was. There were tears flowing through many scenes in this movie. For me, this movie hit me.

41:22
J J didn't see it as much. And Jik tried to cut one moment that he knew it was gonna come, but he wasn't successful. But I wasn't fast enough. But again, I'm an easy cry. I will say that. So, so it may not necessarily be the best, the highest accomplishment, but I will say it happened a lot in this movie. And there were so many. There's not just one definitive scene that I could even say identifies the heart of this movie. I think there were many scenes that were the heart of this movie, but you might even say make the argument that this movie is just all heart art. So, yeah, it really is. That's why it really, like, resonated with me, I think, so much. Like, I mean, I, I, I absolutely adore the scene.

42:05
The, I mean, well, from a character perspective of just establishing personality. I love the interview scene with the.

42:14
Yes, thank you for bringing that up.

42:15
And Clark, just the way that they're handling the recorder. The, like, the way they're handling what's off the record, like all of these moments, like, it's just like. I mean, it's, this isn'. Like, this isn't just top tier screenwriting. It, it's top tier acting. It's like using every moment. It's not, it's using every little bit of real estate to establish who these characters are, what their personalities are, who, what their motivations are. Like that. It just didn't, I didn't feel like there was a wasted beat in most of this movie and in particular that scene. And I absolutely. Like, that was fantastic. I'll mention some other scenes, but yeah, it seems like. Go ahead.

42:59
Well, I just want to praise that interview scene because it was in the trailer for a reason. Like, it is such a good character beat for them and what they omitted. So for one thing, immediately I clocked that it's different shots that they use in the trailer versus what's actually in the movie. They use a wide or like a two shot with both of them in the actual movie, but in the trailer they do individual coverage. And it's just like, really fun watching these two actors really play this up. It gives Corn Sweat a chance to distinguish between his Clark and his Superman Personas there. It gives Rachel Brosnahan, who we have not talked enough about yet already on this podcast because she's so good as Lois Lane.

43:41
She's a Great. Lois Lane.

43:43
Now, my wife didn't like her as Lois Lane, which I was surprised because she's a huge fan of Marvelous Ms. Maisel.

43:48
Yeah.

43:49
But just wasn't. Wasn't there. So I will note that maybe it doesn't resonate for everyone, but I thought.

43:56
She was fucking great.

43:57
And I thought that the interview scene where she's like, you're not gonna like me if I do this.

44:03
Yeah.

44:04
Because Lois knows who she is.

44:07
Lois is very.

44:08
Has internalized like, what's going on with Lois Lane at this point.

44:14
Yeah. Because like, even, like we all would all know, like, Lois is like a.

44:18
Hard hitting, like, purely surprised when he.

44:21
Reporter, as she said in another movie. Yeah. She had to remind us of that. But Clark doesn't do that. So it was kind of funny seeing like them go back and forth because Clark isn't used to answering or being.

44:33
Part of those heavy hitting questions.

44:36
I'm not gonna do this. But like, I always go back for when Clark's doing his big pieces. I always go back to that. That Superman the original series or the Animated series? The death of Mr. Wayne. The noir episode where they. The police officer kills him and Clark.

44:52
Has to go off the rest of the. Or the late Mr. Kent, I think is the episode title. Yeah, late Mr. K. Yeah.

44:57
And so, like, that's his kind of like journalism thing. He's going behind. He's interviewing people, doing all this other stuff. But Lois is like up in your face. Like, bam, bam. Question, question, question. And Clark really thinks he can handle that. You know, Noah's like, oh, this is gonna be hilarious because he's gonna get handled. And he's like, oh, you can't use that. She's like, you didn't say off the record.

45:17
No, you can't use that.

45:18
No, Clark, I'm definitely using it. No, not. And I was like, oh, this is. This is awesome. I love this.

45:24
Just that back and forth where, like, Lois is asking real, like, real questions like, oh, you stuck a man against a cactus. Because that's classic Superman beating up like the oppressor kind of stuff. Like that fits so well into like golden age Superman kind of material.

45:38
But like.

45:38
Yeah, like, he doesn't know, like, what hurts a human.

45:45
Oh, the thorns were only this big. They were small.

45:48
Like, there's plenty of things there where you could see Superman is like, going too far. And she calls him out on that, and she calls him out on the things that he didn't think through, which are, you know, again, getting back to this Whole childish versus, like, adult perspective on heroism. It doesn't mean that it's invalidated. Like, the fact that Superman didn't think it through doesn't change the fact that he did the right thing. Yeah, but it's nice to set up that contrast between these two characters to call out the journalistic ethics issue of interviewing yourself. It's like, oh, you time imaginary interviews you do with yourself.

46:28
Oh, yeah. Clark. Superman wouldn't do that.

46:30
How do you know that?

46:31
That.

46:32
Because he. I talked to him. You talked to Superman right after he finished doing this? Yeah, he was right there.

46:37
Like, jimmy and Lois. Look at him.

46:39
Like, cool.

46:40
Awesome.

46:41
I swear to God. I. I believe that Jimmy and Perry know who Clark is in this movie. I'm pretty sure.

46:46
Well, they. They acknowledge as much.

46:48
Well, they acknowledge that they're hooking up, like.

46:51
Oh, yeah, that's right.

46:52
They for sure acknowledge that Superman and Lois are hooking up.

46:55
Superman and Lois are. But they didn't. Yeah, that's right. But, like, how long? About three months. Three months. Like. Like.

47:00
Oh, Jimmy knows. Like, Jimmy knows for sure.

47:02
Yeah, yeah. I. I have a feeling they. They probably know. I. It just seems like they probably do because, I mean, I think, like, they've kind of, like, they kind of mocked the idea that the glasses are real.

47:16
I love that detail.

47:18
Yeah.

47:18
So there are so nerd details in this movie that. That they just do.

47:23
They.

47:23
They put in there for the sake of us nerds. And the one with. With the glasses that they play for a jacket joke, and I walked away from it being like, wait, are in this movie. Are they hypnotic?

47:35
That was like, this guy Gardner's rant classic. And I was like, oh, yes, it's.

47:40
Finally happening in a movie.

47:41
And he was like, those freaking hypnotic glasses. You've seen. You've all seen it. Okay. He does a thing where you can't see his face, and I was like, oh, that's awesome.

47:50
Yeah. Modern Superman fans might not be aware of this, but, like. Like, it used to be a thing that, like, legitimately, his glasses were hypnotic in certain versions, but that's because writers were, like, crazy hacks working under insane deadlines and just, like, putting out there. And they were like, how is he a TV anchorman? Oh, hypnotic glasses. Or he's vibrating his face. Something like that. That doesn't matter.

48:16
Yeah. Yeah. It was such a great detail. It was a great. It was a nice little. Little. It felt like even more than an Easter egg on that one.

48:26
One thing I want to bring up, not from the Interview scene. But from the, like, the makeup scene that they have, which very hilarious that, like, all the Internet was like, Superman's not dealing with the interdimensional imp in the background.

48:40
Well.

48:40
Because he knows that's not actually gonna hurt anyone. Like, that's like, if you're paying attention to what kind of monster is in the background. Of course he's not paying attention to it. Like, it's not important in the grand scheme of things. Guy Gardner can beat it up with a baseball hat. Like, that's fine.

48:56
Again, that scene was one of the scene that got me a little teary, actually. Like, the idea of. I loved that conversation was one of my absolute favorites because I think the idea of Superman looking at everyone being trusting and seeing everyone as beautiful even if they don't, I thought really got to, again, like, another core part of who Superman is at his best. So that was a scene that really resonated with me as well.

49:27
What I really love about it is that it works in James Gunn's love of music so well into the defining of these characters. Like, Lois Lane and Clark Kent have different tastes, but similar tastes in music. They're both journalists, they're both into punk rock. But Clark has a very specific, like, taste of punk rock that they established multiple times. He has a Mighty Crab Joys poster on his desk.

49:55
Yeah.

49:56
Like, on the pillar behind his desk. Which they established before he says that he's a fan of them. And then of course, we get the closing. Like their number as the credits song. Yeah. So just like, wonderful stuff there. But, like, I love that we get those details of, like, their music tastes. Like informing who they are. Because music does inform who a person is. You know, like, we get. Get this three dimensionality to these characters just by virtue of, like, how we're informed about these things about them. I was surprised that they didn't drop a. Like and my dad's a general line in there. Like, that's completely omitted from this point.

50:35
Yeah.

50:37
But it'll probably be later on. Probably. And, you know, probably fine. Although, like, look, my adventures with Superman, like General Lane is the main bad of the first season. And. And Superman and Lois. General Lane is a huge part of that. But that's also like a newer thing. Like General Lane, we researched this for this show is first established in man of steel. Like the 80s revival of Superman, like, that was not a thing. The John Byrne revival of Superman. Like, prior to that, Lois's dad was just a dude.

51:11
Right.

51:13
So, J. Mike, I looked this up actually after we did our Superman and the Incredible Hulk episode because we talk about how it's like, oh, it's really funny that, like, Betty Ross and Lois Lane are talking about how both their dads are generals. And I was like, how many generals are there? Actually, there's like, 36. Yeah, really, like four star generals. Like, not like. Because General, like, first single star, which is like. I forget the whole, like, tier system for it. But, like, they're always four star generals.

51:42
Like, both.

51:43
Both General Lane and General Ross are four star generals. There's only 36 in the United States at the moment. They fucking know each other.

51:51
Yeah. Kind of hard for them not to run into each other at that point. Do we have any other major regularly established generals within Marvel or DC other than those two? I actually can't really think of.

52:08
I think Sergeant Rock is promoted to a general by the time we look at him in any modern scenarios instead of, like, 1940s stuff. But that's the last one that comes to mind. It's the whole thing about, like, most characters are either captains in the military because, like, that's so, like, such a popular. Like, you're a leader of men, but not the brass kind of thing.

52:29
Yeah. Well, the title is just right in terms of, like, that universal appeal. Like, you didn't know, Like, Lieutenant doesn't sound like. Doesn't sound like it has quite the same authority, you know, which is weird.

52:41
Because Lieutenant, like, higher ranking.

52:44
Right. Sergeant has a good gruff sound to it. But Captain definitely had, like, leader. Like. Like you said, leader of men. It definitely. It definitely resonates. So what. What. Let me ask you guys, what is, like, your single scene that's, like, the heart of this movie for you guys? You can pick more than one. But what, like, what's really the core of this movie? I think, honestly, that talk while the.

53:21
Imp is fighting in the background where Superman says that he's gonna turn himself in because he has to find the dog who's not even a good dog.

53:29
Yeah.

53:30
But he's alone and he's scared and, like. And he's so tired. Like, he, you know, he. Like, that's the whole scene of him, like, taking his boots off and everything.

53:40
Yeah.

53:40
I think that's a really good moment for the character. So I'm gonna put that one down at the moment. But I'm sure any scene in this, there are multiple. Yeah, there's plenty.

53:52
Yeah. Yeah. I would really go with. For me. And it's funny because in a lot of the wrong ways, you know, obviously, J. Mike Alluded to our Kevin Costner PA Kett, man of Steel earlier and he's a regular type of conversation for the two of us. But, but I will say the. The PA Kette scene in this movie really like, I think that felt so much like the heart of this movie in. In. And really like got to the core of what I think I feel is a message that we're needing more now than ever when like the definition of truth is constantly changing for people depending on who they're listening to and what they want. You know, like, you know, you can blame postmodernism or moral relativism. You know, sometimes people blame those things.

54:51
It's not always the most fair thing to blame because I think at the look there's still some certain core truths that we know that people who are in vulnerable positions need help. And I think that is the core of this movie. Like that sort of thesis right there stands out to me in such a big way. And J. Mike tried to undercut it for me by quoting my favorite line that got me teary. And across the spider verse that. Nah, I'm gonna do my own thing across the spider verse because I have shared with him that made me cry, which he thinks it's weird that made me cry, but there are so many other moments. But let's see. But yeah, that for me was sort of that moment.

55:40
It felt like that kind of the sort of a self actualization moment for who Superman is in such a big way. So yeah, that's the part that really worked for me. It's like a toss up for me between the kid with the flag. Yeah. At the battle of scene I actually.

56:05
Teared up on that scene.

56:06
I was like, I got me frighted sailors. Well, it's like, it's more impactful in.

56:13
The actual movie because it's a bunch.

56:14
Of kids like lifting up the scene. They're all like, Superman. And then the scene with Superman and.

56:21
When he rushes back after Alexis invaded the.

56:24
The fortress and he's talking to four.

56:27
And four is like trying to jab.

56:28
Out his brain because he failed. And I was like, yeah, because it's Superman being Superman. And people like calling on Superman because they know he's always going to be there for them. No matter how bad he's getting his butt kicked in that moment, he's gonna.

56:43
Still be looking out to like save.

56:44
As many people or help as many people as he can. And even when he's hurting really badly, he's still focused on, like, these people need me.

56:52
Even the robots.

56:53
Yeah.

56:54
No, it's like, speaking of butt kick, were either of you surprised about the reveal about Ultraman in this movie?

57:05
No, I was. Really? Because I remember, Addy, I told you. I was like, oh, crap. I was like, bizarro. And I looked at you and you were like, huh? And I was like, but he looks like Anakin on Mustafar. You know, and this is proof that I really. I've been stretching, needing to get new glasses, but. But there were moments I actually thought, is that. Is that Henry Cavill there? Like, there's no way they're gonna put Henry Cavill, you know, in that movie. Like, that would feel like the most.

57:32
Insane poll if they had Henry Cavill coming just to play his own evil clone.

57:38
Right. Well, and also, like, Zack. Zack Snyder and GUN are friends. Like, those two, like, came up together with the dawn of the Dead remake. So, like, there's no bad blood between those guys either. You know, at least personally, who knows? Like, if there's, you know, with just the politics of every. Of just their jobs, maybe there's a little bit. But doesn't feel like James Gunn.

58:02
I think it was Family Guy with the. With the two of them. But like, yeah, where they are. Yeah, I mean, like, they've done shit more recently. Like, I. I don't think that they have.

58:12
Like, I think there was some. I think I remember seeing like something on social media where the two of them were hanging out not too long ago, actually. So, you know, whatever the case is, it's just one of those things. Like, you know, there's a lot that we as fans throw fire on and make a bigger deal than it actually is, you know, and. And it's just like that grifter economy that exists. The clickbait grifter economy that exists.

58:34
Oh, the cyber monkeys.

58:36
Right, Exactly. That. That claims every other week that Catherine Kennedy is gonna get fired, you know, so, yeah, man, it was. Yeah, I. I didn't feel too surprised by that, to be perfectly honest. I thought. I thought it was an okay reveal. I didn't. It didn't blow, like, blow me away necessarily. But I can't say this, man. It's funny because, like, obviously I'm. I'm very high up on this movie right now. I can't say anything really blew me away. But it. Where it chose not to, like, be a mind blowing movie, it chose to be about, like, all right, let's like, kind of bring heart and core like this. Make this. This movie about really, like in response to all the craziness of the world. What, what, how do we respond to it?

59:27
So I think that's why this movie didn't feel like it was built on the big reveal. Because it didn't even feel like. I didn't even feel like the movie was trying to make that reveal that big of a deal to be perfect.

59:39
Yeah, I didn't think it was like a big reveal or anything. It is probably the biggest like twist or spoiler that we have to talk about in this whole movie.

59:47
Yeah, and they hit it in the trailer, you know, I think fairly well besides the other big one, the other big twist they threw in there.

59:57
The message twist. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

01:00:00
Oh, the message is a big one we'll talk about. That's an interesting point of discussion.

01:00:03
But so calling him Ultraman and having the toys say Ultraman was sort of like enough to be like, okay, either it's a dimension thing or it's a clone thing. One of those is going on here before we got into it. And the only reason I like allowed for myself on my first watching to be like, well, maybe it's an extra dimensional version was because he created a pocket universe. And like, well, maybe he has pocket Krypton and he has a pocket Superman here, but it's effectively he just created a copy of Superman by way of, in that scenario of by way of creating a pocket universe versus cloning him.

01:00:43
Him. To be honest, I thought were about to get Superboy because I thought he, were in that rant from Lex. I thought were going to get him to. He was going to even say that he threw in half his DNA into it.

01:00:55
Oh yeah.

01:00:55
It didn't happen, of course, but I, I was fully expecting a super boy reveal during the course of the ra.

01:01:01
I'm a little bummed. Are they allowed to use that now? Didn't wasn't revealed to have like flakier skin. Like I, I, I don't like the whole like chalk or like full on chalky, but with like jagged facial features.

01:01:13
Bizarro.

01:01:13
But to have him be like kind of pale and you know, Bizarro, ish, was a surprise. Like just because he is Bizarro. Like he's structurally Bizarro. And for all intents and purposes here.

01:01:26
I could see James Gunn saving Bizarro for something because Bizarro does.

01:01:30
How do you save Bizarro when you have just a perfect clone of him in this movie?

01:01:38
The assumption is that this is the only Clone, I'm. I'm sure, like, we could have multiple clones. Like, maybe we'll even get that Rise of Skywalker vat of failed Snokes, you know, and we'll see like, failed Superman clones in some scene in the future. So. Sorry for quoting Rise of Skywalker. I don't. You know, that's. That's not the. I don't want to bring that energy here.

01:02:05
It is kind of the thing that, like, kills certain point of view.

01:02:12
I was like, well, because, like, I was giving credence to, like, okay, it could be Ultram man, because, you know.

01:02:16
You said they do have the pocket.

01:02:17
Universes, and they do. They do have all this tech, like, out there. I was like, okay, cool. Not.

01:02:24
Not just all this tech. They had the weird alien in the pocket universe, which made me be like, is that an inhabitant of the pocket universe?

01:02:31
Is there Mr. Handsome? The. The, like the. Yeah, yeah, Mr.

01:02:34
Handsome. Yeah. And I was like, huh?

01:02:38
It. It's not out of the realm of possibility.

01:02:39
It could have happened.

01:02:41
So, like, I was like, okay, we might actually get Ultraman coming over here. And I was like, oh, this is Bizarro Superman. Cool. Ultraman supposed to be key, like a part of the Authority in any way. Or is that. No, it's the.

01:02:52
The Justice Lords Crime Syndicate. It is the Earth 3 and. Or antimatter Universe, depending on which version. If. If we're just going on a Grant Morrison kick. It's the Antimatter Universe version of Superman.

01:03:05
Yeah.

01:03:05
Or really, actually the Antimatter Universe version of Lois Lane, more accurately, because the Wonder Woman of that universe is the Antimatter Universe version of Superman.

01:03:17
Yeah, that. That I have no familiarity with. I remember, of course, the Justice Lords in. In jla, but. But yeah, I. You know, it's. I. I think there's still, like. I don't know. I just get the feeling that Bizarro is something that Gun would have fun with, especially Bizarro in all of his weirdness.

01:03:39
Yeah. And again, I'm not saying that I needed him to be full on Bizarro. He's close enough already. I was just surprised that he wasn't kind of pale.

01:03:46
Yeah, that would have been. That would have been a nice. Nice taste, like a nice little addition to it. Yeah. The long hair I actually felt was a little distracting, but it did also feel like, all right, this is something we need for quickly being able to identify, you know? Yeah. So, yeah, it was an interesting choice. I mean, I will say that. And this. I will say it was a bit of a critique for this scene. Was that as energetic as this movie is, that movie did, that scene got a little. Not over the top, because we've seen over the top before, but it did get a little confusing tracking a little bit of the action. It helped once crypto came. Came in and I think that kind of solved it.

01:04:30
But like, while the two of them are going at it did get a little. It was. It was a lot, I think. Yeah, it was. It was that. That jumping back and forth between Lex and.

01:04:39
And the fight.

01:04:39
Yeah. Where he's like yelling out like, tekken commander. Yeah. Which is a big. I was actually a big fan speech.

01:04:47
I really thought there, like. Yeah, yeah. Let's talk about Nicholas. Hold for a moment there. Like, yeah, like, great, great.

01:04:56
I loved it. I loved it. Yeah. Cla. It's like classic Lex. I was laughing because I was like, they really took like the. The. The OG Lex from the original Superman movie because he's doing the big land grab thing. He just wants to land.

01:05:11
But it is part of what I really love about this. His plans are actually really multifaceted. There is no one simple thing that he's doing. Like, and so him getting. Getting like. What was it, Lutheria that. That he called it at the end, that was just like a perk in him killing Superman, which was like his like ultimate plan because he's such a douchebag.

01:05:38
Yeah, I. I'm a big. I really like this take on it. I will say the. The take that I've always thought. I'm sure I've said this on. On certain point of view in the past, but I always thought like the avenue into Superman was to get Lex right. Like to do a movie from his perspective where you wanted to like Lex, especially because he wants to be really a champion of humanity. Obviously he's still greedy, he's still arrogant, but there's still that sort of core of him where he wants to really like. He really believes in human innovation. You know, it's kind of like the way we. And they did do this, but not necessarily in a way that you liked him, which I think is fine. But like they.

01:06:23
In the way that a lot of people worship certain billionaires, like sort of the. That. That cult of personality. Like, I have a hard time seeing that version of this Lex showing up. I kind of hope there's room for that in the future because I'd love to see more of this Nicholas Hulk, Lex Luthor. But they really got the manic. They really got the arrogant. The vulnerability because of that greed down. So just like that. As arrogant as he is and as narcissistic as he is, that inferiority complex he has when he sees someone as good and as trusting as Superman, I think was really a great take on the character.

01:07:10
Yeah. I think my only regret with this Lex Luthor is that he doesn't have the voice of Clancy Brown. Brown.

01:07:17
Yeah.

01:07:18
Yeah.

01:07:19
That's such a thing that. I love that the. The Clancy Brown voice. Like, to me, that's in the same way that Mark Hamill is the, you know, definitive joker for me. Clancy Brown is. Is the definitive Lex for me as well.

01:07:33
But, I mean, aside from that, he's doing a very good job of being a really good Lex Luthor.

01:07:42
He.

01:07:42
He looks the part so goddamn well with the shaved head and, like, his blue eyes. Like, he just. Yeah, just. Just chef's kiss on all the shots for him. And the whole, like, speech that he gives about envy and how Superman invalidates human achievements and so forth. Wonderful stuff, like, does a great job establishing, like, the character and all that.

01:08:06
So good. It was so good. Good. It was so good. Yeah. Yeah. The invalidating human achievement parts is the part that I thought was the most interesting part of it. The part that felt like a little bit more of a development of the idea of who Lex is. And I'm a big fan of that addition to it.

01:08:25
So why don't we move on to some of the other characters in this movie before we get into ones we like? I'm just going to vent a little bit about the Daily Planet staff. I love the casting of the Daily Planet, Saf. I think Beck Bennett is amazing as Steve Lombard. I think Skyler Gisondo, who is Jimmy Olsen, is so goddamn good in this movie.

01:08:51
So good.

01:08:54
I keep calling him a sex symbol, and my wife keeps getting mad that I'm like, that's not what a sex symbol means. And I'm like, no, but all the girls like him.

01:09:01
For me it is. Right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's funny because, yeah, he is. It was a nice little bit to that to make Jimmy that character.

01:09:14
Wendell Pierce as Perry White. Like, he's just getting, like, one of his hero roles because he was also in Thunderbolts. Like, just great stuff there. Mikayla Hoover as Cat Grant looks the part perfectly, like, great and spot on. When it's like everyone's giving Kent about his writing. She's like, I loved it, Clark. And I'm like, that's the Cat grand I know who's like, really into Clark Kent. She's not into Superman. She's into Clark Kent. And that's such a good detail for the character. What the fuck are they doing in Act 3?

01:09:48
They're there.

01:09:49
Jimmy makes sense. Lois makes sense. Everyone like Perry kind of. But when it's just like, yeah, let's get Lombard and let's get Cat Grant and let's get Ron Truck Troop, like, to be in the ship with us.

01:10:01
And it's like, I 100 agree with you. It felt weird that even my wife.

01:10:07
Whispered to me, wait, who's the black guy? When they all got off the ship, because she noticed that he was like, disappeared.

01:10:15
Yeah. Yeah. Like, I just took it as like, they were kind of used to this stuff at this point and they were just going through the motions because for them, like, Metropolis, something happens. Metropolis, like, every freaking hour almost. And like, the comics and things.

01:10:26
I mean, that's fine. Like, as it. Like, look, you can justify it. Like, it's. It's fine. The whole idea that they didn't get out of the office in time and it. Like Lois said, the only escape route. Yeah. Was the.

01:10:37
The.

01:10:38
You know, the.

01:10:40
I forget what it's called. The Terrific Ship Owner.

01:10:44
Yeah, the. The T ship or whatever it is. Like the Flying Saucer. Like, it all makes sense that they're there, but, like, they're not doing anything in Act 3.

01:10:53
Yeah. I hope that this is more about. I wouldn't be surprised if those are characters that will pop up in other stories in the universe. I could see some of these characters making appearances elsewhere. I mean, especially for a major news organization. You have plenty of justification for these characters to pop up in other stories. So I'm hoping that. That it just means that there is thought to the bigger universe there than necessarily their value in this one movie. But. Yeah, I had the exact same thought when he's calling, like, okay, like, you really need Steve Lombard. You really need your sports guy.

01:11:37
Need Ron Troop. I love Ron Troop, but he is not a character in this movie. It's just like all of a sudden.

01:11:42
He'S not like, let. Let's. He gets called out, like, right then and there. Yeah. Yeah. It really. He. I. I wonder. It made me wonder if whether or not there was like a scene that got cut where he was part of maybe, like, not necessarily a bigger part, but like, at least had a line or something before in. In the. In an earlier version of the movie, or if he has some value in the future that, like, maybe they'll use him in Like, I don't know. I mean, like, obviously, we already know Peacemaker. In Peacemaker Season 2, we're getting Guy Gardner and Hawker Girl. But I don't know, maybe. Maybe we get some reporters in Peacemaker.

01:12:22
Which would be great.

01:12:22
Some of these other stories, again, happy.

01:12:24
To have them, but they're just not doing anything right.

01:12:30
Yeah, yeah. I could see it being. Yeah. I just wonder if, like, maybe we'll get that, like, Drax and sort of Mantis type of use for those characters outside of. Outside of this, you know, So I could see that being them getting a little bit more value in that same way.

01:12:49
Yeah. Tons of potential. Again, great casting. I think they all look the parts perfectly and are doing a great job. Beck Bennett gets some really good moments as Steve Lombard.

01:12:58
He does.

01:12:59
And Steve Lombard is a character that not that many people know, but is a wonderful recurring character in the Superman mythos.

01:13:08
Yeah, well, he's been more active in my Adventures of Superman. I think that's a lot of people recently, obviously. Yeah. Yeah. So people might know him more from there, or the newer fans might.

01:13:19
Yeah. It's just always the Daily Planet staff kind of gets, like, you know, subsumed by, like, the bigger Superman stuff. Like Superman. Eventually. He's not Clark Kent that much in this movie. You know, like, it would be very easy for us to, like, not have Daily Planet scenes at all in the movie that we got if they were just, like, trimming down time. It's just. It's important to have those characters because, like, his larger supporting cast is. Is, like, part of why we care about Superman, like, that. That he has this world to, like, exist in, which is great. Let's move on. Because, like, I just, you know, I just needed to vent that they just didn't do anything in Act 3. Specifically Act 3.

01:13:56
Why don't we talk about the message? Because that's a bit. Pretty big piece of this movie. Yeah.

01:14:02
I was shocked that it didn't have, like, a third part to it kind of thing. Like the, like, the Simpsons with, like, yeah. The like To Serve Man Cookbook and blowing it off To Serve man dinner.

01:14:16
Exactly. That.

01:14:19
That surprised me that we didn't get it. I'm not mad that it is the way it is.

01:14:24
You think we still could, or do you think it's, like, definitively like. I think. I think that's not the real version.

01:14:32
I'm 90. Disappointed if they rolled it back in a different movie.

01:14:37
Yeah. Just because, like, we got the payoff for how important Ma and Pa Kent are. The Kent are to him, essentially. Yeah, it feels like they won't, but. Yeah, I know. J. Mike. I do feel like there's still that room for them to still make the, you know, the house of hell a little bit more, you know, nicer people. My. My head cannon was that she got something more important than that off the machine. And then Lex just decided to use the message to take over Clark just because that's. He's more important. He's more like. I want to like deface him in.

01:15:17
Front of everybody and make everyone think.

01:15:19
He'S the bad guy so he's no longer like a giant hero anymore.

01:15:22
But I think she, like, he got.

01:15:24
Something more important for that.

01:15:25
It's going to play off later on.

01:15:26
So here's one thing. Thing. It's not. It's definitely not a plot hole. But shouldn't Kara know, like, shouldn't she be aware of what the. The message says?

01:15:38
We know about Kara. Like, we don't. We actually don't know that much about this version of Kara. And so it could be a younger Kara that like left Krypton and even a version where she's a teenager. Like she might not know the whole story.

01:15:52
Right.

01:15:52
The other thing and what I was about to say about the message is that it's possible that the translation is bad. Like there are specific words that they say that I'm like, I don't know if that necessarily has a one to one translation in Kryptonian society. Like take as many whys as you can. Is like one where like a translation thing I could see a full on this was fake baked thing. After a whole like bit about Mr. Terrific being like, no, those are definitely real. Would feel like them just reversing the like the stance of this movie.

01:16:29
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I do hope that there is some sort of translation thing that doesn't necessarily absolve, you know, the. The house fell or you know, the. In this case. But maybe at least like sheds a little bit more light into the message or the context of who they are. But I also don't know how much room I want to go. Like how. How much do we really want to litigate that story necessarily? Like, it's. I guess it's got to be pretty core to who you know, he is. I mean, who knows? I mean there's. There's a ton of possibilities they could go with this story. And I don't know if you want to necessarily keep on going into the past of this character if you really want to move forward into the future with this character.

01:17:17
I mean, the message is such a part of the arc of Superman in this movie. Like him using it as his coping mechanism at the beginning, and then it's poisoned against him in the middle. And then he has taken a new message as his blanket that he wears when he needs comfort at the end, which is his human family. It would be. I think it would be disingenuous to reverse it as a whole. You could add nuance to it, especially with. From Kara, like, trying to clarify, like. No, it actually means. That's not quite what the wording means, translation wise.

01:17:59
But.

01:18:02
It served so well for him to have an arc for Superman to have an arc in this movie. And his big arc is his understanding of why he does the thing that he does and why the Man PA Kent stuff is so important, because it makes him understand that he's doing the things that he does because he chooses to, not because he's told to.

01:18:24
Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah, I'm a bit. Yeah, I like that a lot. So it's a quick aside. Yeah, really quick aside. I was not expecting to be that old mom Pod can't. I was expecting them to be, like, their late 50s, early 60s, like, 60s, pushing 70. I think that's about. Oh, no, they looked fairly. Fairly older. Interesting. Maybe unhealthy.

01:18:53
That's another.

01:18:53
Yeah, that was like. They look so much older than I thought.

01:18:57
Like, they don't look like the movie stars from Smallville that are playing the parts of the parents, which I will.

01:19:03
Say is my favorite part of it. Like, they felt very relatable. Yeah, that. And. And especially the experience of that, like, on the phone, like, I know, right? Your PA says that's nice. So, like, that. That was. That felt super relatable there. That was a big fan of that. So, yeah, I absolutely loved, like, having normal people in this movie. And again, like, this is a thing that I think, man, I don't know how many heroes we actually get this with. Like, I feel the Netflix Marvel series, we got some of this with, like, Luke Cage and Daredevil, like, actually interacting with normal people. We definitely got it. Like, we've gotten it with Spidey plenty. Especially I think it more so with Tom Holland than any of the others, because we got Tom Holland hanging out in a bodega Sega, you know, in.

01:20:04
In the. The new ones, and then having, like, you know, like this Superman, like, actually, like, you know, interacting with. With like a. A person with a food cart and, you know, you have like, you know, like the way the kids gravitate towards him once the fight with the Kaiju is done. Like, all of those little pieces, like, to me, it's so core to like a good superhero movie. Like, I feel like maybe I'm misremembering, but I feel like stuff like that's in the Incredibles as well. You know, it's. It's that like, that is such a. A part that I think is undervalued in a lot of superhero movies. And I think that's one thing that really. Again, I don't. I can't even say that James Gunn does that in. In any of his other movies. But this is part of the.

01:20:57
Like, this felt so appropriate to the character. And it felt like, again, we had another choice that was like, all right, give me all the choices that are going to give you heart in this movie. And we got them all. Here's one critique I'll give. It's such a minor critique. It's not even really a critique for this movie. But I need Alan Tudyk to have another voice for four because I kept on hearing kts. It was like. And, and. And the. The guy's a master with his voices. There are many times he's unrecognizable. So as. As a voice actor, but man, like, I like, he had the. The. The K2, so it's not quite monotone, but like he had that. It's exact good natured robot voice. It is, yeah. And. And, and we got to. And.

01:21:51
And maybe it's also because we just freshly got some more K2 so recently to. That was just on top of mind awareness. But yeah, that's really the only other thing I can nitpick on this movie.

01:22:05
Let's talk a moment about the choice to have the Engineer as a villain in this movie. It's interesting. The Engineer is traditionally a hero in comics. She's specifically the Green Lantern analog in the Authority, which is a Justice League inspired team. So I was surprised that she was a villain in this piece. It kind of makes sense. And there's like details about the character that work together to make it all kind of fit. As long as she's anti alien, which is not a thing from the character in the comics, but you could add that detail in there. It kind of works.

01:22:52
I felt that this was a setup for a redemption arc for her because I felt like a lot of the dialogue that she had in this movie was just really quickly establishing a baseline for who she is right now, but I never felt it was gonna stay there. I don't know why I got that sense in the movie, but there were enough moments of hesitation. Well, not really. I don't know if I'd even say hesitation, but it just feels like she was a character prior to one of.

01:23:18
Those who doesn't, like, fully, like, go for the Luthor, like, mad Scientist plan. Like, she's, like, a little worried about, like, the world being destroyed and so forth. And those are. Those are good details. I was surprised that we didn't get her, like, betraying Lex at the end.

01:23:33
Yeah, yeah. But I think that's why that key for her, like, they quickly established that, okay, she's still alive, she's not dead. She committed fully to who Lex is. So I feel like that does set her up. Like, I think, like, I think she. Again, I think the Authority is good. I think we. We'll see a little bit of that in the Authority. Maybe, like, that's her Redee redemption story right there. It felt like this was setting, like, setting the base for it. Like, this was very much like Black Panther in Civil War. This was. That was sort of her. This is her introduction in the same way, you know?

01:24:07
But that said, I liked the appearance of the Authority. Or of the Engineer, I should say. I. I thought that the. Like, when she does, like, a handstand and then like, fully shifts herself into, like. Yeah, like, that was a good use of the nanobots there. Her, like, being able to summon weapons is pretty good. It's a little weird that she, like, focused on discs, like in the saw blade.

01:24:27
That was a little strange.

01:24:29
Just make guns. But one thing I really liked is that when she interfaces with the Kryptonian tech and when she's, like, fully fighting Superman, she has these, like, spikes that grow out of her head. And that makes her look more like the. Like, the engineer from the comic. Comics, because, you know, her base form doesn't quite. Like, the Engineer is, like, fully covered in nanotech in the comics. Like, there's no human face to it and has, like, random, like, articles of machinery on her body, but is mostly just, like, a grey goo girl in the comics. And so, like, they did, like, little elements to, like, sort of make her more of that. And. And in terms of a good threat, she's a great threat.

01:25:13
The scene that everyone reacted to in both of the screenings I went to is when Superman has to pull the nanotech out of his throat after being sucked by it. That's a good threat for a Superman where it's just like, oh, yeah, he does have to breathe, doesn't he?

01:25:32
Right? Yeah, I was a big fan of that. I thought that was again, like putting legitimate threat to. To Superman right there was. Was again, like, I. I hope there's more room to do stuff more with him as opposed to just making him the punching bag for the. For the Justice League, you know, to show how serious the villains are in the future. Like, I really. And I think there will be, like, I think again, I. I've got. I gotta ad. I've got a lot of faith in James Gunn. I think Marvel really lost out big time when they fired him that first time. And like, granted, fortunately, he was able to finish out Guardians, but as I remember it, he was supposed to lead Marvel's Cosmic movies.

01:26:21
At one point they were going to have him kind of be a little bit of a showrunner for a lot of. For a certain set of the movies.

01:26:28
Which would have been crazy.

01:26:30
They've lost out big time. Yep. Yep. But you know what? DC fortunately benefited from Marvel's Lost in that. In that case. And I am very excited for, obviously, you know, Guy Gardner in this movie. My. My Green Lanterns. There's hope is restored in a big way.

01:26:49
All right, wait.

01:26:51
Very excited.

01:26:51
Talked about Guy Gardner earlier, but let's actually, like, spend a minute talking about him because, Addie, you are. Are a huge Green Lantern fan. How does, how did. To see a Green Lantern on screen that was taken with a modicum of severity.

01:27:08
Yeah, it was perfect. It's. It's. It's all I really needed. Like, it wasn't too much. It didn't really go too deep into it. Establish that he sort. He's kind, you know, he's a beat cop. He's got like. They established that, like, tried to. To explain who Guy Gardner is. And that is. There's a very specific tone you got to hit with Guy.

01:27:31
I've compared Guy Gardner to U.S. agent, which is that they are both characters that were created in Reaganite America. That is kind of a commentary on, like, conservative politics.

01:27:38
Yes.

01:27:39
Taken to sort of a buffoonish degree, particularly in the case of Guy.

01:27:45
Right.

01:27:45
And so, like, he's supposed to be an over the top, like, asshole on purpose. We're supposed to laugh at him. Him. And thus we laugh with the writers of the piece.

01:27:56
Right, Exactly. They nailed that in such a good way. Sure. There's a lot of using him for comic relief, which is totally justified from all the Justice Gang jokes.

01:28:13
How great was him dropping the ball on revealing Superman's like, identity.

01:28:23
And Yeah, I mean, it's like the contrast with him and Mr. Terrific was perfect. And then obviously Hawk Girl too. You know, like, it's just it, he's, it was, he's just so much fun. And Nathan Fillan is just right for it. There's actually a, a wrestler or two that I would have also potentially chosen for Garbage Gardener. But Nathan Fillion is just right for him. I, I, I'm excited to see him interact with the rest of the Green Lantern corps and all the, the, the ridiculous amount of Earth Lanterns that we have.

01:28:58
Sorry kids. Superman couldn't come, so you get an upgrade and then he just uses middle fingers to store the tanks.

01:29:06
Right? Oh, just perfect. Like, just that I was like those little kids that now became the greatest.

01:29:11
Green Lantern fans on Earth.

01:29:13
Right? He's gonn club there. Yeah, exactly. I have company now.

01:29:20
You always say it's against your. Oh, the implied vow. The vow line is so good.

01:29:29
Yeah, the, yeah, taking the vow to a much.

01:29:32
Wait, that was part of your vow? It was implied. An implied vow.

01:29:40
Yeah. I, I think Mr. Terrific is.

01:29:43
Oh my God. I looked up buying a jacket that was a Mr. Terrific jacket after watching this movie.

01:29:48
Oh, that's so cool. Which is funny because like this isn't even the first live action version of Mr. Terrific. We got him in the Arrowverse technically as a pretty major, like he wasn't just like a one off or anything. He was a pretty major character in the Arrowverse too. So but it, even with seeing that like this felt like such a fresh take on him and it was so cool getting to see. Also I can never remember the name of the actor, but I remember he was an X Men first class as Darwin.

01:30:21
Eddie. Eddie Gathaggy. Yeah.

01:30:23
Yes, that's right. Eddie Githagi, I think is what. Yeah, yeah. And, and I just remember like he was one of those guys like he's so cool in that movie, but he gets taken out so early. So it was so nice to actually have like this actor get this chance to you know, play a superhero again, you know?

01:30:45
Yeah, we should pause and just for the sake of the almighty algorithm, say justice for Darwin. Hashtag justice for Darwin. Yeah, no, Mr. Terrific is great. Now anyone who is watch this movie and we're like, that was a pretty cool character. Where can I see more? There's a comic series called the Terrifics which is a send up of the Fantastic Four. It's so good. It includes Mr. Terrific and Metamorpho. It is a great goddamn book where Mr. Terrific is the Reed Richards of a team of superheroes. And he's so cool in that book. And this movie does such a great job capturing that character who like, though. So like this movie doesn't have that many needle drops in the grand scheme of things. Like it's a James Gunn movie.

01:31:29
But I think there's like three needle drops in this movie and one of Those is when Mr. Terrific takes out the entire military base.

01:31:37
Yeah.

01:31:38
And it's so goddamn good.

01:31:42
That's so awesome, man. Yeah, I, you know, it's funny you mentioned that because, you know, I've heard a number of people call it like, say this is a. Feels like a James Gun movie and it's not. It does for sure. But I will say this felt like one of the least like a James Gun movies just for the sake of like, I think technically, just based on the credits, there were technically four songs used in the movie. So I don't know if all of them were necessarily full on needle drops in the same way it, you know, that we usually get with James Gunn, but you know it was used. Well, they have a lot of. Or orchestral soundtrack and especially my favorite thing about this movie is just how extensively they use the John Williams yeah. Theme.

01:32:31
And it's funny, that like guitar riff version of it.

01:32:34
Yes, it reminded me a lot again, like I'm g. To go back tom Holland Spidey, but the way that they use the, like the Spider man theme and that like they use. Use the old school Spider man theme like that one. I love the fact, I've always loved in that series of movies how they use an orchestral version of that theme. And here we know what theme works for Spidey in that movie. We know what works for Superman. We know what that evokes. So why abandon. It felt like in the way that Rogue One builds off of like it feels like the echoes of the John Williams soundtrack for like, for the Skywalker saga. This felt like the like while definitively using the John Williams theme, it still felt like echoes of the John Williams soundtrack.

01:33:30
So I was a big, big fan of that.

01:33:33
Yeah. Excellent use of the music in general for the characters and like we said before, the music taste for the characters kind of informs bits about their stories and so forth. Speaking of really good orchestral stuff, the moments where Superman's imprisoned are really good. Dark music overtures and that is where we get introduced to Metamorpho, who. Fuck. Yes. All right, so I'm gonna say this out loud because I don't know if this. This is. I'm just putting this out in the universe. I contributed to the Kickstarter for Death Battle.

01:34:10
Oh, did that.

01:34:12
Yeah, yeah. Where if you contributed at a certain rate, you got a chance to pitch them a death battle. And you know what death battle I pitched? Metamorpho versus the Absorbing Man.

01:34:24
Okay.

01:34:26
Because similar powers, but Metamorpho, way more control, absorbing, way higher ceiling on his powers.

01:34:34
Right.

01:34:35
And so. And. And they're both, like, big palooka types that, you know, are. Are famous for, like, turning their. Like having some kind of bludgeoning weapon.

01:34:43
Hammers at some point are. Are a big part of it or.

01:34:46
Like, wrecking balls is, like, the big thing with both of them. Yeah. So I am so happy that Metamorpho gets a great turn in this movie, because I'm like, maybe they'll take my pitch. May. Maybe they'll take it.

01:34:57
I. I had.

01:34:58
I had a slideshow. I had a PowerPoint presentation.

01:35:04
Please.

01:35:05
Death Battle, please. Especially now that you've seen how cool Metamorpho can be. Like, where he's exploding acid at people and being a weird squid guy.

01:35:16
Or.

01:35:16
When he's fighting in Barovia and he turns into the giant hammer and so forth. Like, awesome shit for this character who has such a wonderful arc. It's a mini arc in this thing where his son is kidnapped and he's being held basically at Guns Point, and he's being forced to do this horrible thing to Superman, which is why he's so upset. And then, like, when we see Molly, who we'll talk about next, killed, like, that's such a moment for him where he was like this. This random person was just killed, like, because he's. He is truly a good guy. He's truly a hero, but he's been forced to participate in this horrible scheme by losing for.

01:35:58
Yeah, I'm a big fan of. I can't. Is it Anthony Kerrigan is. Yeah.

01:36:04
Anthony Kerrigan.

01:36:05
Yeah.

01:36:05
Who. Who people will know best from Barry. Yeah.

01:36:10
Yeah. Big. I love Barry. It's one of my favorites. So it was very nice having him in this role. Like, typically. I mean, he's played a lot of villains in the past. I think he was also on Gotham as Victor Zsasz, I want to say. But. But, yeah, it was really nice seeing him get to play a hero. It was really nice hearing his voice, like, it felt like this movie was a little bit more voice acting for him just because of the prosthetics that he had to deal with. Like, they still did a very good job of acting through the prosthetics. But I will say that like there was great, like the vulnerability that he got through and like right from the jump, establishing just that dynamic for him, like being know, held hostage in that scenario I thought was great.

01:36:57
But yeah, that turn for him again, fantastic.

01:37:01
Yeah. And like, man, it was so brutal having his son like the, the scene with Joey, like being held up by Superman while they're. They're in the like anti proton river or whatever. Like now that I'm a dad, man. Does that, does that relate like, of this moment of like just please don't.

01:37:19
Fucking die and then. And killing as well? Like, I mean that was so brutal. Yeah.

01:37:30
Such a brutal shot. Like it. And it's like what sucks and what makes it more effective? It is, it is kind of like funny in that like.

01:37:39
Oh.

01:37:41
Kind of way when the shot actually goes off and like Luther says, like I thought that was going to take longer.

01:37:50
Yeah.

01:37:50
You know, like it's this like really insane kind of moment there. But damn, what a. Like a character who's set up in the trailers.

01:37:59
Yep.

01:38:00
We get to see these like little moments with the character who they, when they scan his face, you're like, what are they doing that for? And to really have that payoff. Like, Superman is notoriously like a friend of the hot dog cart in the comics. Like he's, he knows all the people who are like street vendors and like, and respects them and like, you know, like has good relationships with them. That's like just a part of Superman. Like he, like the hot dog vendors and so forth and the falafel guys, he knows all of them.

01:38:32
Yeah.

01:38:32
And so like that was like a nice detail there that this character who you know, respects Superman and cares about him and you know, says that like helping him out and like giving him some food was like the greatest honor that he could have had. Like, and then getting killed by Luthor just because he dared to help Superman once.

01:38:53
Right? Yeah, yeah. It was it that went so far in terms of establishing just how intimidating of a villain this Lex is. And man, did either of you imagine just touching, continuing with Lex for a little bit? Did it feel like you could see that hammer of Baravia suit painted in purple and green?

01:39:21
Oh yeah. I mean like the armor, the Lex armor, I think looks is pretty close to what the Raptors are wearing in that.

01:39:30
Yeah.

01:39:31
So it's not too far off from that. So there was this, like, fan FICI comic. I had this idea for. For that was basically doing Squadron supreme, but for, like, D.C. stuff. And I had the Iron man character be Lex Luthor in that scenario. But instead of having him have a power armor, he was a. Because this was the 90s when I came up with this, he was a clone, but he had his brain inside a bizarro body. And the armor was intended to suppress the bizarro degradation process for it. And that kind of felt like what were looking at in the. The Ultraman armor, like the Hammer of Baravia armor there. Because.

01:40:16
My.

01:40:17
My brain predicted all this in 1995 and then has not progressed ever since. But yeah, but yeah, the armor for the. The Hammer of Baravia definitely had familiar elements to Lex Luthor fans.

01:40:31
Yeah. So, yeah, I. I thought that was. That was cool. It feels like something that. Like, we. We saw something. Early stages with that May movie will get a little bit more to think was there.

01:40:47
Let's talk about Ms. Tessmacher for a second. Sarah Sampayo playing Eve Tessmacher. One thing I will say, wonderfully set up in the trailer without any of us realizing what they were doing and, like, set up. Every time she takes a selfie is this whole, like, seating of her, like, taking pictures of everything around her. And that I thought was a really good detail. I also loved that Jimmy Olsen had her listed as mutant toes. Every time it showed his phone, I laughed so goddamn hard.

01:41:20
Yes. I was a big fan of that, too. You said my feet look like shrimp.

01:41:27
Cocktail poured out on the floor.

01:41:34
Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, I think they did a fantastic job with. With Eve. Like, I mean, she's. I mean, obviously she was in Superman the movie and has been in other stuff too, but it's one of those, like a character that you just didn't think that there was going to be anything more to. I think was also, again, a really good turn, you know? Yeah, I think that's the thing. Like, maybe a recurring thing that we keep on coming back with this. With this iteration is I. I think James Gunn does a really good job. Not like, I think he does a good job at the sort of. What's the core thing, challenging his main character, but he also does a really good job at elevating his supporting cast and giving them.

01:42:16
Even if they don't necessarily all have arcs in that particular movie, they. You do feel like they Might have arcs over the course of their appearances. And I think that he really does. It does feel like he puts a lot of thought into, okay, who is this character and what is their motivation? Who are they? What are the things that they enjoy? There is a lot of thought put into that. I didn't feel that. I don't really feel like there was anybody who existed purely for exposition. And even if they were, like, there were scenes that were there for exposition, there was plenty of personality being established in those scenes. There was plenty of motivation established in those scenes. And again, it gives again this feel of, oh, this feels real. There's something authentic, there's something that feels lived in about this world.

01:43:18
It's funny. I've been revisiting the Star wars prequels of the. Over the last couple weeks, we've been just watching and deep diving and sharing our notes on those and just there's been like, I've had a couple changes on my views on those movies. Not in their necessarily their overall quality, but sort of the ambitions of those movies. But again, the dressing of all of that. There's certain things that are so efficient in a New Home Hope, and in this movie as well, where, like things that feel lived in, things that feel authentic. Because again, like, you just hit maybe like you just feel like there's a lot of. Not just raw ideas, but a lot of really like these ideas were really well processed and really well like developed and. And made into like truly interesting arcs. Real people.

01:44:16
And, you know, when there's danger with these characters, the danger feels more real than normal. Even if it's just as dangerous as we've seen for the up. I mean, how many superhero movies are we at this point? I mean, it's not like the danger we saw in this movie are any really. It's nothing that crazier or that different than what we've seen a million times before. But because.

01:44:43
No, I'd argue the scale is. Is rolled back a bit actually in this movie. Like, there's no blue laser in the sky. Like, yes, the. The dimensional rift thing is like tearing a hole in the planet.

01:44:56
Right? But it could be a world ending threat. But at the same time, we kind of know at the.

01:45:02
Where it's. Where it is in this movie is a city ending threat.

01:45:05
Right.

01:45:06
And which is different than a world ending threat. It eventually could become a world ending threat, but. But they stop it well before that happens.

01:45:13
Right, but because the people themselves feel real. Like the sort of. I don't want. I like I just. I don't want to get caught into comparing this to man of Steel or, you know, the Zack Snyder iteration. But, like, the disaster porn of destroying Metropolis does feel totally different in these two movies. With this movie versus that movie, I didn't really feel the human toll in man of Steel, whereas this felt like I really did feel the danger to people in a different way with this one. And maybe I'm wrong, but I definitely like this. Again, this felt more dangerous because, well.

01:46:00
It'S a superman who actively cares about stopping the harm to people matters and squirrels.

01:46:07
Yeah. So, yeah, I. Yeah, I love it. I'm a big fan of that. We. Oh, man. We were saying before, though.

01:46:21
Well, I'll say the next thing that I want to talk about.

01:46:23
Sure.

01:46:24
Is that I love that Metropolis is in Delaware.

01:46:27
Oh, yeah.

01:46:29
My wife saw the license plate, and she was like, delaware? And I was like, metropolis is in Delaware.

01:46:36
I didn't notice that.

01:46:37
And I was so goddamn proud of that detail. Like, because it's such a nerd fucking thing to put in there.

01:46:45
Was that on the bridge that was about to be destroyed, is that.

01:46:48
Well, we see multiple points where we see license plates, like Lois's car. When she pulls up to the hall of justice, you get a good shot of her license plate, and it says Delaware. Because in theory, Metropolis kind of replaces Wilmington, which is infamously where everyone has a tax haven in the United States. Because Delaware has really lacks tax rules.

01:47:10
Oh, yeah. Upperware.

01:47:12
So this is in a scenario where it wasn't quite as loose and it actually promoted a city to be fully built up, as opposed to a bunch of storage sheds that all have business addresses attached to them. That is what Metropolis is, replacing that space. And I think that's really fun having. Having that detail there and, like, kind of acknowledging it all and being like, yeah, well, you got to go now north to Gotham City, which is in New Jersey for sure. Like, that's. That's, like, cool details there.

01:47:44
Yeah.

01:47:45
And this movie loves those, like, kind of nerd details. I mean, that's why we get the robots. That's why we. We've got crypto. That's why we've got Supergirl in this. Like, it just really embraces those kind of nerd things.

01:47:56
Things. Yeah.

01:47:57
Hey, I think this might be a good moment for us to drop in the messages that we've got about this movie, because I put out a call for people on the certain POV Discord server and also for people who follow me on Blue sky to submit their thoughts about The Superman movie, because we have a lot of people out there who have a lot of thoughts, and so this is probably as good a place as any. I will say this, at the time of recording, I haven't had a chance to listen to these, so this is going to be a surprise for all of us. But here are some of the thoughts about the movie that our fans have had.

01:48:35
Hey, I'm Alex, and these are my brief thoughts on the Superman movie. So I've obviously gone into them on my other podcasts. But the thing I will say that I really like about this new Superman movie is that both kids and adults can enjoy it. What am I. What do I mean by that? Basically, I saw this movie and I sat next to a kid and his dad, and the kid was getting really into it, and you can tell the dad was really enjoying it and they're really bonding over it. And like, I think that we are sorely missing that in, like, a lot of superhero content recently, like, especially with dc.

01:49:16
So it was really nice to see and it gives me hope for future releases that both, like I said, it's not necessarily a family movie, but both kids and adults can enjoy it, and that's really nice. Hi, Case. Ben Hassler here, co host of Reels of Justice. And I have a confession. I didn't love that new Superman movie. A cinematic sin, I know. To be fair, I'm not a huge DC guy. That said, I. I have seen every episode of Smallville and every Superman film, so I'm familiar enough with the character and his world, but maybe not familiar enough, because when the film starts in the middle like this one does, it feels like I'm missing half of the story. There's reasons movies have first acts.

01:50:00
This one is so overloaded with ideas that it makes the decision to skip that crucial step of properly entering introducing its protagonist and antagonists. I'm not asking for another origin story, mind you, but don't assume I already know and care about Guy Gardner, especially this version of him. I love Nathan Fillion, but wow, does he feel out of place. And I have no idea why Hawkgirl seems so bored, or even who she is.

01:50:26
Mr.

01:50:27
Terrific fares a bit better since he has a little bit more screen time in the drunk Supergirl campaign cameo. Yay. I mean, they don't give me much to latch onto. I'm just left there wondering why I should care about any of these characters. So because of all of that, the pacing just feels clunky. We barely get any sense of who Clark Kent Is as a character. Just one brief scene in the Daily Planet and that's it. And can we talk about that score? How dare they tease us with snippets of John Williams Brilliant theme, but never deliver us the full thing, not even in the credits. Instead, we get a punk rock song thrown in to justify a throwaway line in the script. And I get it. James Gunn loves his needle drops, but punk rock and Superman?

01:51:13
That's a pairing I never really thought belonged together. Maybe it's just me, but the whole punk rock rebellion vibe lost its edge for me the day I saw Loving Jesus as a punk rock tease. Then there's the immigration commentary. The film seems to take the stance that people like the Luthers or djt, excuse me, of the world are. They're just jealous of immigrants. And I don't know. That doesn't land for me because it was more believable for me when Luther was using Superman as a political tool to consolidate power by targeting a foreign threat. And that actually is villainy. That is manipulation. That's closer to real world demagogues. But instead the film just insists Luther is just jealous. That's it. For a character known as a criminal genius, that seems to fall flat for me.

01:52:00
Like the demonization of a group like that is what's more evil and insidious to me. That's what they should have focused on. Smallville actually handled this a bit better in an episode where Clark sympathizes with an undocumented immigrant because he understands. Understands what it was like to slip through those cracks. Even Daredevil, Born Again dealt with similar themes, but in a more honest and focused way. And every time, the movie almost lands that real emotional beat, like, hey, I put my boots one leg at a time. Incomes crypto to kill the mood. I. I know everyone loves that dog, but I. I don't know, just. Just let some moments breathe. Let us have a little emotional resonance. This decision to have Jerrel want Superman to have a harem seemed weird for me. Like, last they left it, that was Mr. Terrific certified.

01:52:48
You know, that doesn't at all fit with what I understand about the character or from the comics is really odd. And also just days of news events just happen in the blink of an eye. Like. Like Lex is at the. The Fortress of Solitude. He gets all this and then all of a sudden it's like all over the news. How did he get there that fast? How did he disseminate that fast?

01:53:08
Fast?

01:53:09
We know it can't possibly be that dimension he uses because those have like little gateways. So I don't know, there's like little plot holes like that all throughout. All that said though, I don't want to dunk on it because there is some I do like. I actually enjoyed his take on Superman. I like Lois. I had issues with how Lex was written maybe, but I like how Nicholas Hoult gives it his all. Jimmy's fun and his very Amanda Pete looking girlfriend is a nice touch. I like the vibrant color palette and the notes of hope throughout. I wouldn't mind seeing a sequel, but hopefully one that actually has a first act next time. So please forgive me my cinematic sin. Hi, I'm Troy McClure. You might remember me from Ziggy Stardust and the Secret to Space. Spice or titties make me giddy? No.

01:53:57
Hi, I'm Derek Van Dyke, the host of the Castle Bravo podcast and frequent guest on many certain Point of View podcasts, including this one. Men of Steel. One of the things that I've been looking for in big Hollywood blockbusters for a long time now that seems to.

01:54:15
Have gone out of vogue.

01:54:17
And this is especially true for anything that's, you know, nerdy on the surface or portrays itself as some, you know, big nerdy franchise tentpole thing but is aimed at as wide of an audience as possible, is a willingness to be, you know, everyone has used the word earnest to death, but I think it's because it's the best word for this. But a willingness to set in the emotions without a need to poke fun at itself, without a need to be overtly self aware and self referential, to draw attention to the artifice of the fantasy that we're watching. Right. Many have opined on how painful it is for there to be a big emotional moment or a heavy, important plot beat that then immediately gets taken out with a joke. Because everything has to be a joke. Everything has to be funny.

01:55:20
We can't allow ourselves to sit in the moment for too long, lest we be seen as cringe, lest we be seen as caring too much, taking too seriously the thoughts and the feelings behind the action figures being clacked around on the screen in front of us. And I think that is a tremendous mistake. I think it is something that has, we've done ourselves a disservice both as the artists creating the art, even under corporate structures, but also as the people, the broad audiences consuming and breaking down that art. We have far too often rewarded that self referential, ironic sort of self deprecation at every turn. And one of the things I was hoping for with Superman was something that would not be afraid to let the big feelings hit.

01:56:22
And while I do think that the movie has its flaws, for certain, no movie is perfect. I think it succeeded in giving me that vision of a character who has so rarely in the modern day been portrayed in any way faithfully to the spirit of the character. I think nailing the hope, the optimism, the humanity of Clark, of Superman, of the world around him. Because you don't have to poke fun at the weirdness of Superman in order for me to buy in. I've bought in. I believe a man can fly. And when you allow us to have that buy in and you allow us to engage directly, unbroken, with the emotion of the message, when you're swinging for the fences, when you trust the audience to feel those soaring feelings that you're.

01:57:19
Trying to communicate, you can end up.

01:57:22
With something really special. And that's Superman in a nutshell. That's always been Superman in a nutshell. This is Ed Gross, author of Voices.

01:57:31
From Krypton and the definitive history. Given that I'm someone who follows the S, basically every iteration of Superman is something I welcome. And James Gunn's version is no exception. What separates this film, I think, from a lot of the others is that previous filmmakers, including Richard Donner with Superman.

01:57:48
The movie, I believe, were intent on.

01:57:50
Bringing Superman into the real world.

01:57:52
What James Gunn has done with this.

01:57:54
Movie is just make it a comic.

01:57:55
Book brought to life.

01:57:56
And there was something really refreshing about that. Part of the reason I think this.

01:58:00
Film connects with people is that it's.

01:58:03
Similar to the 70s in the sense that in 76, the original Rocky won.

01:58:07
The Academy award for best picture. Two years later, Superman, the movie.

01:58:10
Was released and audiences loved it. I think they were looking for an.

01:58:14
Escape, an escape from the Watergate scandal, from the Vietnam war. And it was a time for hope or seeking hope.

01:58:21
Today, it feels kind of similar to that.

01:58:23
We're looking for something brighter, something to hold on to aspire towards, to look towards for that word hope.

01:58:30
And James Gunn, Superman does that, looking forward to what he has in store for the future.

01:58:36
Hey there, Min of steel listeners.

01:58:38
TIS I, JD Martin, reigning champion of.

01:58:42
Appearances on this podcast. And I just want to ramble for a few minutes about this movie. And I'm thinking back to when I first saw the two minute trailer. My thought was, when I see this movie for the first time, it will not be a matter of will I cry, but instead, how hard will I cry?

01:59:01
I have at the time of this recording.

01:59:03
Seen this movie twice. And surprisingly, I didn't cry the first time.

01:59:08
Second time, absolutely.

01:59:09
But first time, there were moments that.

01:59:12
Left a lump in my throat. And throughout the entire runtime, I felt.

01:59:18
A rush of every emotion across the spectrum. It felt like. And I think the reason why I didn't cry initially was I was just so in awe of the fact that I was watching a movie that not only was just. It was so fun and fresh and full of life, but it also showcased every character that I love in this movie. Superman, Lois, Jimmy, Lex, Perry White, mon pa Kent, Mr. Terrific Guy, Hawkgirl.

02:00:04
All these characters that I love.

02:00:05
It showcased them pretty much the exact way I envisioned them in my head and how I feel about them in.

02:00:16
My heart and soul. And I thought, man, James Gunn just has a.

02:00:21
Like a direct line into the kinds of big blockbuster movies that I want to see, the movies that I actually want to put my money down for like every. Everyone was just perfectly on point and perfectly cast in every single role. David Corn Sweat Going forward. Like Christopher Reeve before him, he's Superman no matter what he does after this, no matter. No matter the roles that he's done before, he is Superman forever for me. Nicholas Holt, I was saying from day.

02:00:58
One, pitch perfect casting.

02:01:01
And what do you know?

02:01:02
I was absolutely right.

02:01:03
Rachel Brosnahan as Lois. Phenomenal. Probably my favorite casting in this entire movie was Scarja Zondo as Jimmy Olsen. As soon as he was cast in the movie, I realized, oh, yeah, no, this movie is for me and everybody else. All the crew across the board just did an amazing job. Henry Braum as director of photography returning from guardians 2 and 3 and the suicide Squad. Incredible. John Murphy and David Fleming on the score. Fantastic. The fact that this movie. Movie is. Doesn't really have a soundtrack per se, really just has a. This. The Murphy Fleming score. But it also. But like the. The songs that are chosen were just absolutely perfect for the moments they had. Punk Rocker by Teddy Bears and Iggy Pop will forever be linked to Superman.

02:02:00
The character in my mind.

02:02:01
Mind forever. Anytime I hear that song, I'm always going to think about Superman forever. And I'm going to listen to that song on. On a loop for the next month until I get sick of it.

02:02:13
Funny thing is, I won't actually get sick of it.

02:02:15
Also, I really want to shout out production designer Beth Nichol and costume designer Judy Onamikovsky.

02:02:24
They knocked it out of the park in these departments.

02:02:29
I just. It. The entire thing felt like a combination of the Triangle era of the comics, the 90s animated series, the Silver age comics, like, all rolled into one and paying homage to so many incredible stories from the comics and cartoons and the radio show. Just. It. It is a. It is a. It is an encapsulation of everything I love about Superman and every other character in this movie. It is just such a phenomenal movie. And I hope everyone. I hope everyone else felt the same.

02:03:14
Way that I did. I hope you go see it again and again and.

02:03:21
Again for good measure. And that's all. Have a great day. Bye. Bye. Hey, this is Jesse from Jaguar Sharks. Well, now defunct Jaguar Sharks, now that we've wrapped up. But Case asked me to come on and offer my opinions on the new Superman movie. And so my thoughts are this. It's great. It's really well done. It's not perfect. It's got some flaws, but I had an excellent time at theater. It's the first time I've seen Superman material that made me really go, yes, this. This makes me feel good. I never watched the Superman and Lois TV show. I think I just kind of tapped out of the Arrowverse and said, yeah, it's. It's not really for me anymore. But I was pumped for this because I like James Gunn and I really like the Suicide Squad. I loved Peacemaker.

02:04:04
So going into this, I had high expectations, and overall, they were met. I think that it is a flawed but very fun movie. It. It's quick and it's brisk and it's colorful. Maybe even too quick, which is one of my negatives, is that it's a little too fast. You really are kind of jumping into this story in what is probably the tail end of the first act instead of jumping in. In the beginning of the first. So I think it really could have. Even though it is almost a solid flat two hours, it could have probably used another, like, 15 minutes to flesh out some stuff in the opening. But damn, man, it's so much fun. It's so creative. It's so clever. Her characters are perfectly acted. I mean, the chemistry between David Corn Sweat and Rachel Brosnahan is perfect.

02:04:47
They're perfectly cast in these roles. I think that the. The changing from Of Superman's origin to being that his parents sent him to Earth not as a. To save his life, but actually for him to be sort of a. A conqueror, you know, in a way, to take over the human race was kind of a fun twist. It. It kind of. In many ways, I hate to bring this up, but it Kind of does all the stuff Snider was doing, but then failing horribly at this, does all of Snyder's stuff in his in, and James Gunn did it in his sleep. It's, it's handled so much better. It's handled so well. Maybe the political stuff is a little muddled and questionable, but overall I think it functions well enough, but it's the most comic booky of any movie I've seen in recent years.

02:05:37
It really embraces the comic book nature, like pocket universes, absurd uses of physics, the ridiculous over the top action scenes. Superman literally saves a squirrel at one point, which is kind of cute. Overall, it's just. I had such a fun time. It's, it's so. It's. You walk out of theater full of joy, whereas when I walked out of watching man of Steel, I felt miserable and grim. It's. Is that really what Superman would be like in the real world? Probably. But that is not what I want out of Superman. I don't need that. I don't need dark Superman, especially now. But yeah, this is the right movie for the right time. We needed a happy Superman.

02:06:20
If the Snyderverse had continued and we got more dark Superman stuff, I think I would have just wanted to walk out and just off myself in the parking lot. I. I'm happy that this is hopeful, uplifting, joyful Superman. And he comes off like a big kid. He really is the big blue boy scout. It feels very silver age and other. Another negative, I'd say is that the score is not as standout as I would have liked. Besides the John Williams bits where you hear the John Williams score kind of peek through, for the most part, the score is like. It's there, but it doesn't really pop, doesn't really blow out.

02:06:52
Which is unfortunate because you listen to a lot of other James Gunn soundtracks and there are some needle drop moments, especially the very end of the movie where we end with an Iggy Pop song, which is great. But I think that this score could have been punched up just a little bit. I would have brought back Michael Giacchino to do something like this. I think he did the score for. No. Was it Gino? Oh, no. It was John Ottman who did the score for Superman Returns. I would have brought him back. And I think that overall I walked out very happy and very. With a very positive experience that I, I hadn't seen much in theater this year because I just didn't feel like going.

02:07:27
And the only Other movie I saw this year in theaters was Novocaine, which I thought was, like, fine, but this one, it made me want to see it again in theaters. I'm probably gonna see it a second time. It's. It's a good start to the dcu. Even though a lot of the issues I had with some of the previous Snyderverse stuff, like Black Adam, where the Justice Society doesn't get any backstory at all, those negatives are applied here as well. Like, Hawk Girl gets no development at all as a character. Yet I didn't care because I like watching Isabella Murad as Hawk Girl. I didn't care because tone goes a long way. The tone of this movie really sets the stage and getting away from that Snider stuff, making it as fresh and unique and just comic booky as possible. Like, is.

02:08:08
Is there a lot of backstory to Guy Gardner? No. Do I care? No, not really. I don't give a damn. It doesn't matter. I just wanted to see lots of fun stuff, and I had a great time, and I looked forward to seeing more. Hey, Case and J. Mike, this is.

02:08:22
Jim from the Long Live the Legion podcast.

02:08:25
I just wanted to give a quick.

02:08:27
Note about the Superman movie.

02:08:28
I just went to see that last.

02:08:30
Night with my family, and I'm telling you what, man, this is.

02:08:35
It was such a blast. It was such a blast. DC is back. It's great to see a DC movie.

02:08:42
That feels like a DC comic, where.

02:08:45
It feels like the writers and the.

02:08:47
Directors understand the characters.

02:08:50
I mean, you know, Mr. Terrific. Can I say anything else other than that? I mean, he was. He stole the show for me, and. And Krypto being in there was just the kind of the icing on the cake.

02:09:03
He made everything really well.

02:09:05
Worked from a.

02:09:06
An enjoyable perspective. I think one thing I will say.

02:09:11
Is that, you know, I'm here in, you know, kind of in the boonies where I live, and I went to see theater, see this in the.

02:09:18
Theater with all kinds of folks in the audience. And, man, I'll tell you what, at.

02:09:24
The end of the movie, everybody was clapping. A bunch of kids in the families around me were just gushing about how.

02:09:32
Much they loved the movie.

02:09:33
They thought it was great. It just felt good to go to a DC movie that was positive and.

02:09:41
Yeah, enjoyable the whole way through.

02:09:44
Not filled with.

02:09:45
Not overloaded with angst and stuff like that.

02:09:47
I mean, don't get me wrong, it has its place, I think. You know, as we all know, Batman's.

02:09:52
Pretty loaded with that kind of stuff.

02:09:54
So I think it's appropriate there. Maybe if they do like a Justice League dark kind of thing, it's appropriate there. There. Superman. This nailed exactly what a Superman movie needs to be. And I'm so glad to be watching.

02:10:08
It and to be here at the.

02:10:10
Beginning of this new era in the DC Cinematic Universe.

02:10:13
You guys have a great day and.

02:10:14
Have an awesome podcast. This is Keith from We have issues and I had a few things I wanted to say about the Superman movie. Well, first of all, I loved it, but I want to talk about something hopefully that no one else is going to talk about. And I have a couple things I'm going to go over and hopefully one of these will be unique. The first one I want to talk about is the Kent's, Clark's parents. God, they're just the best portrayal of these characters ever, in my opinion. I in my notes I wrote down, I really feel the love with the Kents. Like I feel how much they love Clark. And I thought, I never really felt that in any TV or movie adaptation of Superman. It was just really well done. So I loved it.

02:11:09
And Martha stole my heart with her first like appearance. The screaming into the phone. Yeah, that was great. Secondly, I love the way were just thrown into this big ass world that's already established, it's a living thing and people know each other. Superman knows guys Gardner. We don't have to see them meet each other. And I really like that. I thought it was cool and I think as a whole, the whole hero ensemble ruled. I've seen a lot of praise from Mr. Turret. Terrific and well deserved, but God, I loved Metamorphose so much. I thought he was so good. And it's a character that definitely could have flopped, but that's kind of James Gunn's specialty is taking those characters and doing something special with them. Also, Guy Gardner was amazing as always. So yeah, I really like it.

02:12:08
The last thing I want to talk about and anyone who knows me knows what's coming. Supergirl. I love that Supergirl shows up, even very briefly, just to tease her movie. I'm so excited for her movie. I saw a little bit of discourse online of people not quite understanding why she is the way she is because they only really have one vision of Supergirl. And all I'll say is just read Supergirl Woman of Tomorrow. It because that's the book her movie is going to be based on and it gives you an idea of her state of mind and it will make sense with that story, and it's just so good and so tragic and so grim but hopeful at the same time.

02:12:54
Like, I loved it, but yeah, Supergirl is my second favorite DC character after Barbara Gordon, and I love her, and this was nearly perfect and absolutely loved it. So overall, movie ruled. Big fan of what they did, and I can't wait. I'm in for James Gunn's DC universe. Let's do it. Holy crap, Case. Holy crap. This is so good. I'm just still digesting the Superman movie. I was a little worried going in. I heard a lot of reviews saying there was a James Gunn movie at first and a Superman movie second, but I can gladly say that he really refrained from putting all the musical numbers in and kept with the John Williams score through most of the movie until the end, of course, during the post credits. But I. I just don't know what to say. It's an a. A movie, definitely.

02:13:45
The only complaint would maybe, like, Sluther went way over the top at the end, but, you know, it's a comic book movie, so your villains will always go way over the top. Okay, so my thoughts on Superman, as condensed as I can, while saying something besides effusive praise, because I feel like this movie's getting a lot of effusive praise, and I have a lot of effusive praise for it. It's gonna be tough because I've spent the last weekend trying to decide if this is my favorite movie ever and sort of trying to give myself the time to make that decision objectively and not just based on the hype of. Of having this Superman movie that I've waited my whole life for. I. You know, I. I said to somebody earlier today.

02:14:53
That in a very real.

02:14:54
Way, I kind of see my viewing of Superman Returns as, like, the end of my childhood, because I don't think I realized before I saw Superman Returns. And I don't mean to shame anybody who likes that movie. If you like it, I'm happy for you. I don't want to change your mind. But for me, I don't think I realized before I saw Superman Return that a movie could be bad. Even movies like the Phantom Menace and Batman and Robin that I recognize objectively are not great in hindsight, I loved them at the time. Superman Returns was the first time I sat down for a movie that I was excited about and really didn't enjoy it and then went into some pretty rough years on the. On the heels of that.

02:15:55
And so it really does kind of feel like that moment like I sat down in that theater as a little kid and then left it, you know, starting being a grown up, starting into the harder years of my life. But I was already a huge Superman fan at that point. Point. And I have stayed a massive Superman fan through man of steel and BVs and injustice. And to finally get this movie, which is almost like someone cherry picked all of the things that I love about Triangle era Superman and Silver Age Superman and Golden Age Superman man. And stirred them up into one big perfect kinetic pot. Just the perfect fusion of the modern blockbuster and the Fleischer cartoon energy. It is difficult for me to put into words how much I like that and how much it meant to me to see it.

02:17:05
And I really wish I could tell James Gun to in person. But I think the thing that meant the most to me and I was already starting to feel this on the last audio recording I had for the show. I think the thing that meant to most to me is the Kents. I'm a Southern guy, I'm from a farm town and I, I really am emotional about this. I cannot remember the last time someone with a thick accent was presented as the moral compass of a Hollywood movie. Was presented as being intelligent and virtuous and worthwhile. I am much more accustomed to the sorts of John Ways Walker type characters where a Southern accent is shorthand for being cruel or short sighted or ignorant.

02:18:18
And so meant so much to me the way that these Kents were presented, that they were not models, that they did not have a standard Hollywood American dialect, that they were overweight, they lived in a trailer, but they had such good hearts, you know, that their culture did not stop them from being good people in the eyes of the filmmakers. And I, and I know that's a very divisive part of the movie. I have, I have seen a couple of other reviewers this week who are, you know, guys that I really like and have a lot of respect for. I'm not, you know, their review is their review. But refer to them as being dim or bumpkins, you know, and I, I understand that and, but this is definitely a critique where why it means so much to me is my personal experience.

02:19:33
And when PA had his moment with Clark where he lays out sort of thesis of the movie and then at the end I don't, you know, I don't know how much spoil. I don't know if this is happening before spoilers or after spoilers. So I'll be a Little vague, but just the. The last moments of the film, the way they do that. I just wept. I. It meant. It meant a lot to me. It made me feel seen in a way that I am not often by Hollywood. And I don't want to pretend that I'm from a persecuted class or anything. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just saying it was an experience that I'm not used to, I'm not accustomed to generally. You'll only get something like what I'm taught. What the Kents had in this. In, like a western. It's very.

02:20:29
It's very isolated in Hollywood. And even then, you know, westerns have a. A kind of cruelty and violence to them that this. That this movie does. I like westerns, but this movie does not have that. This movie has a lot of heart, and I really love it. And. And thank you for giving me a platform to say that. I can't wait to hear you guys thoughts. Can't wait to talk to Case and J. Mike again soon. More in person. Y' all have a great day. And look up.

02:21:07
Hey, folks. Matt, AKA Stormageddon, here.

02:21:09
And I wanted to share a little bit of my thoughts on the new Superman movie. I think this is one of the most perfect depictions of who Superman is as a character since Christopher Reeve on the big screen. The fact that this movie leads with a story about someone just trying to.

02:21:27
Get back up again is deeply.

02:21:30
Relatable and made me feel a lot. For those who don't know, I lost my dad last year, and Superman was a story that my dad and I enjoyed a lot. We loved the comics. He gave me an omnibus of a bunch of early Superman comics when I was just a kid, which I still have. And we loved and watched all the movies, some more than others. And I'm bummed that he didn't get to see this because I think he.

02:21:56
Would have really loved.

02:21:56
Loved it. And so I probably would have been emotional during this film regardless. But I really think that it sets a high bar for what Superman stories.

02:22:05
Should be and what hopeful hero stories should be.

02:22:08
And I think that should be the goal with some superhero movies, especially the ones like Superman should be filled with hope, not lack adversity, but definitely lead with kindness and hope and a strength that comes not just from power and from smashing things, but from actually thinking and caring. And so I think this movie does that really well. I think the cast is incredible. I'm a Green Lantern fan, so Nathan Fillion Sky Gardner was incredible. He was the perfect kind of asshole. But the whole cast is great. Mr.

02:22:40
Terrific.

02:22:41
I mean the whole cast was just phenomenal. And so anyway, I just wanted to share some quick thoughts on how I felt about the movie.

02:22:48
I think it's a plus.

02:22:50
I know some people complained about pacing issues and other things, but I don't agree. I think it really was paced well, it looked great, sounded great. The soundtrack was of course phenomenal, as most James Gunn films are, and I.

02:23:02
Really loved everything about it.

02:23:04
I'm excited for what the future holds for this version of the dcu, which gives me high hopes for Lanterns, of course, the show I am most looking forward to. But yeah, I really loved this film. I want to see it again already and I plan to see it multiple times if possible. But and I can't wait to hear what the gents of Men of Steel think of it though. I have some inklings. But thanks for letting me share my thoughts and yeah, stay Super Man.

02:23:32
Hello everyone. My name is Michael Stumbo. Here's my review of the new Superman movie.

02:23:38
My wife And I on July 11th.

02:23:40
Went out to one of our local theaters to watch it.

02:23:42
We both completely enjoyed it. I myself have been a huge Superman.

02:23:46
Fan since I was five years old in 1979 and I've been reading Superman comics since 1980.

02:23:52
This new Superman movie reminded me an.

02:23:54
Awful lot of the Silver Age stories and I love the Silver Age.

02:23:59
The story in this new movie was fantastical and fun.

02:24:03
It actually had drama, humor and most.

02:24:06
Of all it had hope. You could even see a lot of.

02:24:10
Of all star Superman tones in it as well.

02:24:14
I absolutely loved this film and I plan to watch it again while it is still in theater. Hello, this is Nick Wolfe and I'm here to talk to you about my brief thoughts and first second impressions of Superman aka Superman 2025 aka James Gunn's Superman. So yeah, I saw this on Tuesday night with the early screen and then I saw again matinee showing on Saturday and I really enjoyed it both times. Great movie. So glad it's good. I'm so glad that James Gunn is helming this new universe, starting with a little bit of criticism. I talked about this with Case privately. You all saw it Tuesday night. I'd say that the romance, the relationship between Clark and Lois feels a little bit phoned in. But that's only because like much like the origin story and Clark landing on Earth, me and the Kens, etc.

02:25:09
Like that's already more or less been done. We've all seen it before, and we're trying to move on to some new story beats like the Justice Gang and the whole thing with Jor El and Lara, this new twist, so I understand it is just a little jarring. I do think it works a little bit better on a second going when you're knowing what to expect. I have heard some interesting critiques about this movie. Like. Like, I've been around on different Discord servers. I know one person is like, oh, like, how much you bet people are gonna be full on spoilers, by the way, from this point out. How much you bet people are gonna be upset that John Walker killed out one guy in Falcon Winter Soldier.

02:25:50
But no one's gonna bat an eye at Hawkgirl dropping the Moravian dictator off at the end, dropping him off on the ground from 100ft in the air. I'd say that's an interesting bit of criticism because, like, narrative framing is everything. Though Hawkgirl did technically commit the bigger war crime. And then there's also the whole twist with Jor El and Lara, like, instead of sending Clark to be Earth's savior, is basically here to conquer Earth and start his own secret harem. It's one of the funniest bits of this movie. I know. At least I've heard at least one person, like, saying that James Gunn doesn't really get Superman and how he is an immigrant and how for. For them, being like a first generation immigrant is part of taking in the older culture of the old world and mixing in with the new.

02:26:48
I can't speak to that, admittedly. I am not first generation, obviously. So again, I think that's an interesting conversation to have. I can't say that as far as those points I brought up. Like, I do think with the whole Hop Girl dropping off. I keep saying dropping off, like letting the dictator fall to his death. I do think, like, the film is aware of that criticism, is aware of that reading, because it does have that scene near the very end of Rick Flag Senior and General Mori. I want to say, I hope I'm getting that right, where they're basically saying, looks like the metahumans are calling the shots now. And it's kind of somber. So I'm interested to see how and if that develops in future projects.

02:27:34
And as far as narrative goes with the whole twist with Jor El and Lara and their intentions for Clark, honestly, I don't think the movie works without it because, like, once that happens at the end of act one, it puts Superman in a very interesting position where not only can he not Punch his way out of it. Like, he can't even easily talk his way out of it. Like, it's devastating for him. And, like, everyone's just ready to not believe him because they're scared. And I also think this really strengthens this version of Lex Luthor because, like, he's a real scumbag from minute one. But then with the discovery of this whole thing with Lara and Jor El, it's just. It's like that classic meme is like, the worst thing that ever happened occurred. The guy you disagree with made a very good point.

02:28:25
So I think that really tells you what Luthor is about. Like, especially when he starts saying that Superman's here to groom the Earth. So, like, it's like you really keyed in on what Gunn is going for here. So, yeah. This movie, I'm so excited about it. So excited for it goes down the road. Like, I've literally, like, the needle drops in this movie are very few, but they're all bangers. Like, I have been listening to punk rocker every day since I saw this Tuesday night. One last thing I do want to say is that, like, you notice when Clark is giving Lois the interview as Superman, you notice at one point he drinks, like, a tall glass of milk. Like, it is a. Like it is a comic rat of 30s.

02:29:10
But later down the line, near the third act climax, when everyone's watching the news of Barivia going to invade again. Like, it cuts to Guy in this bar, and he's just got, I think, what is it? Fruit? A bowl of Fruit Loops with milk and also his own tall glass of milk. I just think that's very adorable for a character like Guy Gardner. So glad he didn't die either. I honestly thought for sure he was gonna die. And that was how we're gonna set up Jon Stewart for the lantern show. But I'm so glad he's still here. I'm so glad that the justice gang is not fractured at the end of this movie. So, yeah, Jimmy Olsen is a Rizzmaster. So good.

02:29:56
But aside from all that, as I'm closing out, as I'm winding down, like, having seen this movie twice within the span of less than a week. No time for quick math, especially with. With how difficult life can see, especially these days, both on, like, a macro level and a micro level. Like, just having to slog through with people. People being jerks or being unkind. Seeing this movie twice especially, is just. It really hammers home how important it is to approach things with kindness and carry on with quiet dignity and grace. Basically. It's not too far of a stretch to say that I want to be a kinder person going forward and try and help lift people up, even if that's just through entertaining people. Like no one wants to feel like they're being put down.

02:30:54
And that's the last thing I ever want to do. So want to thank James Gunn, David Corenswet, Rachel Brosnahan and crew and everybody else. And you Case, if you're listening especially thank you for giving me giving all of us. I got a chance to add our voices to this special episode of Men of Steel. And on that note, stay super and look up my general opinion of the new Superman movie is as a whole is a good movie. The thing that it lacked to me that I believe man of Steel had was big moments. For instance, when he first learned to fly in man of Steel, that felt massive to me. I had chills at the time. Additionally, the final fight with Zod felt more epic.

02:31:47
However, in the new Superman movie, I really appreciated how during the fights, Superman was very much trying to protect every life. He was really the small town person that cared about everybody. I really appreciate every character that was involved too. I think the characters added an immense value. The only another drawback I was just thinking about right now was I felt that Hawkgirl didn't really add any value to the movie. I didn't understand why she was there. In fact she straight up murdered, which was a little odd to me for a hero to do. I would also add that Lois Lane, without her in this movie would not have the movie would not allow for Superman to succeed, which was a great value to it. It showed that the secondary characters did something.

02:32:43
And it wasn't just Superman that was the main catalyst for everything to be completed. Without Lois, he probably would have been rescued. Without Mr. Terrific, he probably wouldn't be able to shut the fissure that was occurring. Without all these other characters, Superman would not have won from what my view was. So it added value to them. The story between Lois and Clark was beautiful and Superman trying to justify his existence for being good. Coming from his adoptive parents, where his value he chose versus his messaged parents, that too resonated. You can choose to be who you want to be, it's not ordained. Lastly, Nicholas Holder's Lex Luthor was superb. He played multi layered approach for his way to attack Superman, to defeat him, to ridicule him in every way, shape or form. It was great.

02:33:56
He always had some sort of backup and it was amazing. How he played the role. His general hatred oozed from him in a way that was obvious, but subtle as a whole. Again, it missed those big moments, which I really love in superhero movies. But I can't. I can't fault the fact that the characters were great and the overarching plot just moved very seamlessly. So it's. It was a really solid movie. And I'm kind of curious to see how James Gunn continues with this universe, focusing on good stories versus just getting content out.

02:34:36
Hi, Case Ryan. Luis Rodriguez here, your wonky and affable host of One Track Mind or whatever.

02:34:42
Who cares? I just saw James Gunn's Superman and all I have are fragments of thoughts. That's it. No complete thoughts. And I apologize beforehand.

02:34:51
First. My first viewing is a Gentleman seven, but it could increase with future viewings. I've already purchased the 4K steelbook.

02:35:00
It has the best and most gorgeous Lois lane since the 1950s. In fact, Rachel Brosnahan carries most of the scenes that she in Crypto. Good boy or goodest boy? He reminds me of my own dog, Buster.

02:35:14
We can't train him either.

02:35:17
Gary. Can't forget Gary.

02:35:18
God bless Alan Tudyk, who already has.

02:35:21
Three roles in the dcu, if you count Creature commandos.

02:35:26
I cried twice. Thanks a lot, Pruitt. Taylor. Vince, you really got the tears coming.

02:35:31
Out of my eyes.

02:35:32
Perry White with his cigar approving copy in a spaceship ship. Two delightful cameos. DC is off to a great restart. Okay, that's my time. See you soon. And we're back. J. Mike, you were saying that you have some things that you want to add.

02:35:49
One minor nitpick.

02:35:52
And Addie knows about this all too.

02:35:54
Well because I talk about it all the time. It was a running theory that I had and that I was hoping was going to happen. I thought Hawkgirl was just okay.

02:36:05
You know what? That's fine. I don't think that she's a big part of this.

02:36:08
I was like, she. She was okay outside of being hot girl. Oh, she was more fun outside of being hot girl than she was while she was being hot girl. Because.

02:36:16
Shut up, Addie.

02:36:18
I had this whole theory where I was like, I hope to use the intergalactic bird people. Hawk Girl. Because I was like, that leaves up so many different things that can happen for so many stories. Series, I. E. The Thanagarian invasion. Because that's one of my favorite arcs in Justice League as it is. One of mine is.

02:36:39
It's a. It's a great art. This gets into the whole weirdness of well, sometimes the character is called Hawk Girl, but more often it's called Hawk Woman. Yeah, I was like, that you're talking about.

02:36:48
And also she screeches the entire time. And I was like, that got annoying like the first two out of like the 15 times that she does it. And I was like, it got kind of greedy.

02:37:00
Say, watching this movie. I kept on being like, what is she doing?

02:37:03
Yeah.

02:37:04
Relative to everyone else. Like Mr. Terrific is like this super intellect that has like, you know, these T spheres that are floating around and able to do all kinds of stuff. And is just this like, you know, super scientist, like with no peer and Green Lantern's a Green Lantern.

02:37:19
Yeah.

02:37:19
And then Hawk Girl has a mace.

02:37:21
She's flying around. I guess she's the muscle. I guess. Yeah.

02:37:24
But she's like the youngest person in the group.

02:37:26
So you're like, okay, she kind of works. But I was like, I was hoping it would be like a. My name is Shaira hall. And I'm like, oh.

02:37:34
But it didn't do that.

02:37:35
It's Kendra. It's Kendra.

02:37:37
And I was like, oh.

02:37:40
And I, from what I understand, it is the reincarnation story, which is again, J. Mike and I are not fans of that even more. But I think like there is still hope for a Thanagar invasion in the, in this universe. So I don't know. I, I, I, there's a lot of possibilities with this universe. Jamie, can I already have spent a lot of time theorizing who we think is going to be this big bad. I was like the big bad for the, this first phase. Gods and monsters don't make a dark side, please. That's all I ask. We're tired of kind of dark sided.

02:38:16
Out, so please don't make it dark.

02:38:17
Side side that again to be a great, like a great like, oh, this is a huge threat. Like they've, they've zeroed out all the heroes already. What's gonna happen next. But it's Kendra. So I was like, that's my only nitpick. I think, I think there's still a lot of possibilities for. I don't think, I don't, I, I understand. Trust me. I, I, I understand. J. Mike, why you're, you know, hesitant to get that reincarnation story because we definitely don't want it, you and I. But I will say the Thanagar invasion is still a big possibility. I think we could still get that. We could still get that. You know that betrayal from her. And a very interesting character or another variation of it. They even hinted at it in my Adventures of Superman Season 2. And I was like, oh, they're doing the thing.

02:39:07
They're setting up for it somewhere else. And then like, I was like, oh, girl is going to be in the Superman movie. Oh, snap. And it's Kendra. And I was like, dang it.

02:39:19
That was my only nitpick.

02:39:20
That was my only nitpick. And I was like, okay, she's still a fun character. But I was like, also Maxwell Lord was there. And I was like, oh, snap. He's a thing. That was fun, Harry.

02:39:30
Sean Gunn played him, was fun there. So I have one last thing I want to talk about, which is that this is not really an adaptation of anything, but has. Has like, themes and like, stylistic things similar to stuff. I would say that the closest comic book that this relates to is the Whatever happened or not Whatever Happened, what's so funny about Truth Justice, American Way story. But it is not an adaptation of that in any way, shape or form. It just has, like, at best, like, similar kind of themes. Like the Justice Gang has some similar elements where they're like, willing to kill the monsters and so forth, like, kind of things there. And there's like, you know, vibes that are similar to All Star Superman and like, other stuff out there that's like, more Silver Age inspired. But it's not.

02:40:17
It's not really, like, emulating anything. It's just doing its own thing, which is, like, kind of nice.

02:40:23
And I'll say, that does feel like. Why I think James. I'd make the argument that James Gunn is right now the best director among these directors who handle multiple nerd franchises or multiple superheroes. So far, he's estab. I think he's the best at it. And I don't think there's a close second right now with. With. With that. Because I think he's really good at getting to the core of who these characters are. He's not necessarily trying to adapt specific stories. And. And on the other hand, like, he does like to. He loves putting animals in these movies. You know, he absolutely loves getting into sort of like your identity through the lens of your view of your parents is a big part of pretty much every story he's done. Definitely a peacemaker thing. I can't recall anything specific.

02:41:20
Well, actually, there was quite a lot in Suicide Squad. Cause a lot of those characters had screwed up relationships with their parents. Looking at you, Polka Dot man, sure, Starro had some weird Parental drama. If we could only understand him. But, I mean, that's a big part of Guardians for sure. So I think his trademarks are universal enough to be appropriate to the characters that he adapts so that it doesn't feel like we're just seeing a repeat of a story that we've seen before. And it does feel fresh enough. So, like, I'm very excited to see what he chooses to do next, because I don't. I mean, they, obviously, they haven't announced a second Superman movie yet.

02:42:08
I'm sure they will do one, but I do wonder if he'll direct another one, you know, or if he will hand it off to someone else and produce it, you know?

02:42:18
Yeah. Oh, that's a good question. I mean, I, I guess it depends on what kind of Superman movie they want to do. If they want to do another one that is like this, then I would hope he would still be involved. If they want to do something that is a different story distinctly.

02:42:32
Right.

02:42:33
Then I would be fine with him handing it off and being the producer that sort of, like, guides it all.

02:42:38
Yeah, I mean, he'll definitely be producing it, you know, as long as he's still running, you know, the as long as financially, like, these movies are doing do. All right. Right. He can continue to run this studio. But, but I, I think, yeah, I, I, I get the sense that he'll probably hand it off so that he can work on something else, you know, because I think he's really made his mark with this character. Like, with this character. I'm sure. I mean, maybe he has things in mind for a trilogy of them, you know, I wouldn't put it past him, but, yeah, we, we'll see.

02:43:13
Yeah, maybe that message will be something that could be a continuing part of that story in the same way that Peter Quill's relationship with his mother is a big part of the first movie and then with his father is the driving force of the second movie. Maybe we do get sort of a reevaluation of what that message is. Like, the translation thing that you mentioned could be a way to reevaluate that message in a very interesting way, May. So, yeah, there are plenty of possibilities, and I'm excited for it.

02:43:49
Yeah, well, yeah, I'm really excited for the future as well. This movie. Like, again, I don't think this is a perfect movie. It's not the perfect Superman movie. It's just a really good Superman movie. But it left me, like, so excited every time I'VE seen it.

02:44:05
Yeah. Would you say this is a perfect Justice League movie? I mean, I don't know if you could call it Justice League movie. Maybe Justice. Well, in this case it's Justice Gang. We don't have a Justice Society.

02:44:19
This is the best justice game, I'll say that. I mean, no, it's so Superman centric. Like the Justice Gang is fairly minor in this. They are background characters. It would be a JLU episode that is Superman centric. You know, that I think is a strong comparison. And in that regard, yes. If we're talking about a JLU style series of movies where it's like big world, we're going to focus one or two characters from the team, but they're part of the team, then yes, this is the best that we've gotten and probably that we'll ever get just by the nature of how movies work.

02:45:00
Right. Because I feel like let's say we take the, this character out into space, you know, trying to re evaluate what his Kryptonian upbringing was like. You know, let's say we have, you know, agl. I won't necessarily even say Guy Gardner, but like maybe some more space type characters, some more cosmic level shows up.

02:45:25
Or something like that, right?

02:45:26
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But you know, like he go like it could be more of a space faring movie the next one. So I mean there's so many possibilities of story to tell with him. So. And in this universe already. So I'm very interested to see what theme gods and monsters means. It doesn't seem like a thing that was chosen lightly by guns. So I'm very excited how that kind of unites. I'm very interested to see what phase one is like and I've enjoyed what we've gotten so far. Creature Commandos was good, but I'm glad we finally got something. This was my one criticism of Creature Commandos. I know we're talking Superman here, but I needed to see more than just Suicide Squad style stories. And this was a great answer to that.

02:46:21
To really make me feel reassured that were capable of doing more in the DC universe. Because that would have been my criticism of Gun. Is that because Guardians and Suicide Squad have enough similarity. Peacemaker, all of that has enough similarity. And this feels like he doesn't rely too much on the tools that we've known him for other than the tools that feel appropriate to this character. Yeah. So I feel, I'm, I feel optimistic about this first phase of D.C. for sure. Cool.

02:46:59
I. I am as well. I'm really looking forward to it. This is just such a breath of fresh air as a movie goes.

02:47:07
Like.

02:47:08
Like, we talked about thunderbolts recently, which I also thought was like, a really nice, like, turning point for, like, Marvel movies. Like, we're. We're getting some good stuff. And I'm. I'm hoping Fantastic Four is also equally good. Yeah, this. It's a good summer for superhero movies. Like, the fact it sucks that it was bad, but the fact that, like, Captain America 4 was the worst superhero movie that we're getting this year.

02:47:31
Right.

02:47:32
At least as of the.

02:47:34
So far.

02:47:35
So far. So far.

02:47:36
Yeah.

02:47:37
I've got hope. I've got hope. And considering its pedigree is both depressing but also inspiring. We're getting really good stuff. We got a really good Superman movie. It's hard to make a good Superman movie. There are a lot of bad Superman movies.

02:47:54
Oh, yeah. Yep.

02:47:57
And this was a great one. And I was really happy to watch it. And I was really happy to watch it again. And I would happily watch it more than that. And it's a movie that works well on re watching because you are just jumping into it. So you don't need to, like, work. Be like we're dealing with the setup phase again. Like, you just jump into it. And so it's a good movie in that regard. But I. I feel like we've had a chance to sort of like, gush about this movie and. And talk about our quibbles and so forth, and we can kind of like circle around more. More if we wanted to, but we should probably call it at this point, so. Addie, thank you for joining us on this podcast. Where can people find you? Follow you?

02:48:40
What have you got going on right now?

02:48:43
I have some projects in development. I was looking at launching some YouTube channels, but I think those are actually going to be on hold. I don't have a lot to really talk about right now, so right now there's not really. I'm not really putting anything out there, but I will say keep when I am ready. There may be a video game in development that I am looking at putting together and working on and releasing. So maybe, maybe when that's a little close. When I've got something to show for it, I might try to. Hopefully I'll show it before. I'll come back before then, but, you know, I'll definitely be making the rounds when. When. That's. When that's a thing, so.

02:49:22
Excellent.

02:49:23
Yeah.

02:49:24
Nice. Do you have Socials that people should follow. Are you on?

02:49:28
You know, I, I don't even remember what my socials are right now. I mean, like, Instagram, I guess, is the only thing that's relevant. I. I don't post anything right now, so there's nothing to follow me on. Look at. You know what? Just look at. Listen to past episodes of Certain Point of View. They're all still on Spotify. Refresh yourself with Scruffy Nerf Herders. You know that, that's your best stuff. So certain pov.com is still the place to go if you have an archive of me to get familiar with there.

02:49:55
This is true. I, I made sure that at least the YouTube files were up for certain POV shows because I will still go back and look at some of those old episodes every now and then because that was a glorious time, us being nerds in your basement together.

02:50:09
I miss that studio a lot. That was a really cool studio. I hope in the future I will be able to get to build another one. That is definitely something I hope to do again.

02:50:21
Well, it was great having you back on. It's so great just chatting with you and.

02:50:25
Yeah, thanks for having me.

02:50:26
Yeah. J Mike, where can people find you and follow you?

02:50:29
Oh, gosh, you want to follow me. But yeah, I'm still on Blue sky.

02:50:36
Occasionally at J5 dot bluesky social.

02:50:40
Like, try to respond to everybody and everything when I get a chance to. Occasionally. And on the server. Occasionally. I'm trying really hard, I promise.

02:50:55
Yes, well, people should definitely check out our Discord server. It is a thriving community that has continued to grow since the days when we first founded it together. The three of us here, plus Ben. It's gone on to be a wonderful time. We've got great people who contribute wonderful things, such as the messages that we got in the earlier part of the episode. So you can find a link to our server on the website certainpov.com and that is the best way to contact me. Although if you don't want to, like, commit to it, I'm on most socials Aiken, with the exception of Instagram, which is where I'm holding on for dear Life to My Aim screen name from high school, which is Quetzalcoatl5, which is Q U E T Z A L C O H ATL 5. I know it's pretentious.

02:51:47
I was a pretentious nerd in high school. I'm sorry, nothing has changed. Nothing. So you can find me there. We have some housekeeping to do, which is we should thank some people because we have a Patreon going now. So I want to call some attention to the people who joined at our executive producer level. So we've got some wonderful people to thank. And that is Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir Lee Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey and Nancy Akin, Adam Sampter and Keith Lettanen. All of y' all are amazing. You can join the Patreon at Certain POV Media. Just look for Certain POV Media on Patreon. Sign up or I've got links all over. You can find it. We would love your support because it is so exciting to actually have some support in this whole endeavor.

02:52:46
I can't tell you how great it is to actually feel like people care about what we're putting out in the universe. So check that out and then circle back and check out some of the great episodes@ certainpov.com I am going to continue shouting out the new shows that have joined the network recently. We have Issues, which is a great comic book podcast and Long Live the Legion, which is a fantastic Legion of Superheroes podcast. Which if you're a Superman fan and you don't understand why I'm plugging a Legion of Superheroes podcast, then do some more research. I'm sorry. I love you. I'm happy to do the research with you. I'm happy to chat with you about it. But yeah, they're a sibling podcast for a reason, so check that out and otherwise circle back here for our next episode.

02:53:32
We actually are really ahead of schedule because this one is being inserted in our recording schedule. We can actually tell you what is coming up. So the next episode is episode 150 of Men of Steel. We have been going for 150 episodes at this point, which is insane. And we will be talking about Super Slash man with Ryan Luis Rodriguez, who is a wonderful podcaster and so discussing the Christopher Reeve documentary. Couldn't think of a better person to join us for that one. So come back, check that one out. And then 151 we've got a conversation with Jesse Fresco talking about Class War, the comic book series from the 2000s that could best be described as what if Superman was really, really upset about 9 11? Really, really upset. And then 152, we've got a crossover with Long Live the Legion.

02:54:22
And I forget what happens after that, but we are ahead of reflection our recording schedule.

02:54:27
So.

02:54:28
So those are upcoming episodes. Look forward to that and in the meantime, stay.

02:54:58
Nah, I'm gonna do my own thing. I looked over and I saw you were like. I was like, nah, Eddie. Oh, my God, the eye wiping in that movie was so much. I was just like, oh, no, I gotta be able to wipe these two so I can actually watch this we' movie. But it was like, it was straight up like a waterfall at one point. Like, I didn't know that.

02:55:27
The other thing got you too.

02:55:28
Which one? What's the one you said? This one. Beautiful.

02:55:33
Yeah.

02:55:34
Yeah, that got me. I mean, there were a lot of even just little moments, like just cool action shots that. That were get. Get. Getting me as well. I. Yeah, I'm. I'm just. Clearly, I should be the Superman fan. Clearly.

02:55:49
Clearly you should be the Superman fan.

02:55:50
Yeah. Because I was like, that's just Superman being Superman to me. It didn't get me that badly. You're like, I'm doing my own thing. All right, Jose, let's go through our new comic day stack. We have a lot to review. I know. Maybe we've got too far. Let's see. Marvel, of course, dc. I got Image, Dark Horse, Black Mask. Boom. Idw, Aftershock, Vault, of course. Mad Cave, Ony, Valiant, Stout, Magma, Behemoth. Wow, that's a lot. Oh. All we need now is a name for our show. We need a name for a show about reviewing comic books every week. Something cluster clever, but not too clever. Like a pun. It's kind of cheesy. Yeah, it's something that seems funny at first, but we might regret later on as an impulsive decision. A few dozen episodes in. Yeah, we'll think of something.

02:56:50
Join Keith and Osway for we have Issues. A weekly show reviewing almost every new comic released each week. Available on Geek Elite Media and wherever you listen to your podcasts.

02:57:01
CPOV certainpov.com.