Transmetropolitan Vol 2: Lust for Life - with Gen Moonen

Foglets. Revivals. The City in full swing. Case and Keith are joined by Gen Moonen to continue their Transmetropolitan reread with Vol. 2: Lust for Life, as Spider Jerusalem navigates a world that somehow feels even more relevant now than it did on the page.

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Edited by Case Aiken

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Character Depth: Shannon reveals emotional blind spots, enhancing readers' connection and exploring themes of grief and acceptance.

• Spider's Evolution: Spider Jerusalem becomes more nuanced, revealing a caring side while facing consequences of his past actions.

• Worldbuilding Expansion: The story explores diverse subcultures, identity politics, and ethical tensions in a hyper-advanced society.

• Journalism's Impact: Spider's columns expose societal issues, highlighting ethical gray areas and the limits of journalistic influence.

• Tone and Narrative Diversity: A mix of humor and serious themes keeps the reader engaged, showcasing the chaotic world of Spider.

• Philosophical Questions: The narrative questions identity and humanity through cyberpunk technology and the consequences of experimentation.

Notes

Character and Story Development

The volume deepens the emotional and narrative complexity of key characters, especially through Shannon’s perspective and Spider Jerusalem’s evolving humanization (07:10).

• Shannon serves as an effective audience surrogate, revealing emotional blind spots in an otherwise worldly character, which helps readers connect to the transformative nanite downloading process involving Zhang and the foglet community (08:35).

  • This emotional investment allows the story to explore themes of grief and acceptance, grounding the sci-fi elements in relatable human experience.

  • Jeff Moonan highlighted the narrative choice to balance exposition with genuine emotional stakes, enhancing reader engagement.

  • The witnessing of Zhang’s transformation offers closure and insight, reinforcing journalistic integrity and the pursuit of truth despite personal pain.

  • This perspective shift also humanizes Spider, showing his softer, more caring side beyond his typical abrasive persona.

• Spider Jerusalem’s complexity increases, moving from a caricature to a more nuanced figure who, despite his chaotic nature, shows genuine concern for people around him (14:21).

  • His role as a journalist fighting for the underserved remains central, as he balances being an “asshole” with achieving real impact.

  • The narrative exposes collateral damage caused by his ruthlessness, particularly through the backstory of Indira, a former assistant harmed by his actions, which challenges readers’ perceptions of him (01:43:11).

  • The arc culminates in Spider confronting multiple personal consequences, including threats from past relationships and enemies, deepening his character’s stakes and vulnerabilities (01:22:20).

Worldbuilding and Sociocultural Themes

The volume expands the world of Trans Metropolitan by exploring diverse subcultures and the tension between preservation and progress in a hyper-advanced society (56:00).

• Nanite foglets represent a new form of immortality and identity, portrayed with more sympathy than the transient community from Volume One, emphasizing self-identification and decentralized leadership (17:25).

  • The foglets’ godlike abilities to manipulate matter showcase advanced technological evolution, adding depth to the cyberpunk setting.

  • This community contrasts with the transients, highlighting nuanced views on body modification and identity politics within the story.

  • The narrative embraces complexity without condemnation, reflecting real-world diversity in identity and community.

• Reservations act as cultural preservation zones with ethical tensions, where volunteers reenact ancestral lifestyles, some involving harmful practices like female genital mutilation (57:03).

  • These biodomes illustrate conflicts between cultural respect and modern human rights, sparking critical reflection on preservation versus harm.

  • The failed Tikal reservation and its violent history underscore the challenges of maintaining authentic cultural experiences amid a futuristic cityscape.

  • The Farsight community reservation experiments with unregulated science and cybernetic augmentation, testing the boundaries of human enhancement and technological risk (01:11:22).

  • These diverse enclaves emphasize the fracturing of monoculture, showing siloed identities emerging within a homogenizing world dominated by capitalism and English language dominance (01:31:29).

Journalism and Ethical Inquiry

Journalism remains central, portrayed as both a tool for truth and a cause of personal and societal consequences (11:14).

• Spider’s columns illuminate unseen lives and societal fractures, especially through stories like Mary’s revival and the reservations, pushing readers to question the costs of technological advancement and social neglect (39:12).

  • The revival process reflects on humanity’s desire for immortality but highlights systemic failures in care and integration.

  • The narrative critiques corporate promises, showing that while technology advances, infrastructure and compassion lag behind.

  • Spider’s journalism is shown as impactful but imperfect, with ethical gray areas around collateral damage, as seen in Indira’s story (01:44:58).

  • The tension between documenting suffering and intervening raises questions about the journalist’s role in social change.

• The volume explores the limits of Spider’s influence, illustrating that despite his powerful pen, personal relationships and consequences remain outside his control (37:46).

  • His abrasive style yields change but also alienates or harms individuals, reinforcing his dual nature as both hero and flawed human.

  • This complexity adds realism and depth to the role of journalism in a fractured, futuristic society.

Tone, Structure, and Style

Volume Two employs tonal shifts and narrative diversity to balance heavy themes with humor and chaos, enriching reader engagement (00:00).

• The volume mixes “fun and games” with deep, often dark issues, ranging from emotional grief to sociopolitical critique and slapstick violence (01:16:00).

  • The final arc’s Bugs Bunny/Harley Quinn-style hijinks contrast sharply with earlier serious stories, showcasing the series’ range and unpredictability.

  • Tonal whiplash keeps the narrative dynamic and reflects the chaotic world Spider inhabits.

  • These shifts also highlight the series’ unique voice, combining absurdity with sincerity.

• Multiple narrative formats are used, including direct columns, personal viewpoints, and character-driven storytelling, which build a layered reading experience (38:58).

  • This variety allows for exploration of different facets of the world and character motivations.

  • Visual and textual details, such as Spider’s photography process and city signage, enrich the immersive quality of the setting.

Technological and Philosophical Context

The volume situates cyberpunk technology within philosophical debates about identity, humanity, and societal control (24:30).

• The Ship of Theseus argument underpins the foglet transformation, questioning what constitutes human identity when bodies and minds become modular and machine-based (25:14).

  • References to real futurists like Hans Moravec ground the story’s speculative elements in contemporary thought.

  • The volume explores the allure and consequences of posthuman existence, including loss, transformation, and community.

• Info pollen and cybernetic augmentation illustrate the fusion of organic and technological, raising questions about information overload, consent, and bodily autonomy (01:11:22).

  • The use of biological methods for data transmission contrasts with digital technologies, emphasizing a cyclical return to organic systems.

  • The narrative critiques unchecked technological experimentation and its human toll, reflecting broader anxieties about progress and ethics.

Plot Progression and Conflict

The volume advances Spider Jerusalem’s ongoing battles with personal demons, enemies, and a city resistant to change, setting up escalating stakes (01:16:00).

• Spider faces direct violence and legal jeopardy, including assassination attempts, loss of insurance, and police scrutiny following his lethal self-defense against masked attackers (01:20:35).

  • These events highlight the costs of his confrontational style and the city’s hostile environment.

  • The cancellation of his insurance and police opposition underscore systemic obstacles against disruptive figures.

• Multiple adversaries from Spider’s past emerge, including his ex-wife’s head theft and the infant terrible claiming to be his son, which add layers of dark comedy and personal conflict (01:22:20).

  • These plotlines emphasize the theme of past actions returning to haunt him in unpredictable ways.

  • Spider’s pragmatic and irreverent responses reinforce his survival instincts and chaotic nature.

• Supporting characters like Royce and Indira provide contrasting perspectives, showing the wider impact of Spider’s actions and the complexity of alliances within this world (01:24:01).

  • Royce’s competence contrasts with Spider’s chaos, illustrating different approaches to navigating the city’s challenges.

  • Indira’s antagonism and victimization reveal the collateral damage of Spider’s pursuit of truth.

• The volume ends with Spider still at large but increasingly isolated, setting up anticipation for further developments in Volume Three (02:13:28).

Action items

Case Aiken

• Promote episode and engage with listeners on social media platforms (02:12:10)

• Coordinate upcoming interview with Transmetropolitan creator Derek Robertson for series wrap-up (02:12:10)

• Encourage podcast audience to join Discord community and consider contributing to “Trade School” podcast segment (02:12:10)

Keith Lettinen

• Share podcast episodes and manage social media presence for Comic Book Review podcast, including Bluesky and Instagram (02:10:51)

Jeff Moonan

• Continue reading and re-engaging with Transmetropolitan series for future discussions (02:09:11)

Meeting Outline

️ Introduction and Guest Welcome (00:00 - 00:09)

• Introduction to the podcast episode focusing on Volume 2 of Transmetropolitan: Lust for Life.

• Guest Jeff Moonan is welcomed to discuss the volume and its background.

Volume Context and Initial Story Arc "Boyfriend is a Virus" (00:09 - 00:20)

• Examination of the opening story about Zhang Channon's boyfriend who chooses to become a nanite foglet.

• The emotional perspective of Shannon, the audience surrogate, is explored.

Foglet Community and Identity Politics Discussion (00:20 - 00:30)

• Detailed analysis of foglets versus transients, with comparison of community leadership and sincerity.

• Discussed the cyberpunk theme of transformation and self-identification.

Transformation Process and Emotional Impact (00:30 - 00:40)

• Description of Spider and Shannon’s visit to the foglet community, Zhang’s transformation process.

• Discussion on the themes of closure, grief, and the humanization of Spider Jerusalem.

Journalistic Approach and Mary’s Revival Story (00:40 - 00:50)

• Coverage of the second story in the volume about Mary, a war correspondent who has been revived from cryogenic suspension.

• Explored themes of legacy, immortality, and corporate indifference.

Mary’s Story and Media Reflection (00:50 - 01:00)

• Further discussion on Mary’s emotional trauma after revival, her interactions with Spider.

• Reflections on the narrative style and importance of human interest stories in the volume.

️ The Reservations: Cultural Preservation and Ethical Questions (01:00 - 01:09)

• Analysis of the "Reservations" story focusing on communities living preserved cultural lives under controlled environments.

• Debates on the appropriateness of the term "reservation," ethical implications, and comparisons to real-world indigenous contexts.

Tikal and Farsight Reservations – Cyberpunk and Biopunk Elements (01:09 - 01:20)

• Exploration of failed reservations such as Tikal where violence and cultural inaccuracies manifest.

• Discussed technology's integration and its societal impact.

Spider Jerusalem’s Character Voice and Tone Reflections (01:20 - 01:31)

• Discussion on how Spider Jerusalem’s voice can be imagined for adaptations.

• Explored tonal shifts in the series and its mixture of chaotic humor with serious political themes.

️ Language, Culture, and Monoculture Concerns (01:31 - 01:41)

• Insight into the role of language and cultural preservation in the Transmetropolitan universe.

• Reflecting monoculture and its political-economic implications.

Indira’s Story: Sexual Assault and Journalistic Collateral Damage (01:41 - 01:51)

• Examination of Spider’s former assistant Indira’s story where she is unwillingly recorded in a sexually explicit broadcast.

• Discussion of victimization, consequences of Spider’s ruthless journalism tactics, and trauma from lack of consent.

️ Consequences of Actions: Violence and Ramifications for Spider Jerusalem (01:51 - 02:01)

• The narrative of Spider’s violent confrontations with police and the consequences involving characters like Stomp, the police dog.

• Plus the unresolved personal matters involving Spider’s ex-wife and Indira.

Closing Remarks and Future Discussions (02:01 - 02:14)

• Podcast closes with reflections on the volume's impact.

• Guest and hosts promote their projects, announce upcoming interviews, and invite listeners to engage with the community and social media.

Key Takeaways

Volume 2 Explores Themes of Identity, Transformation, and Closure (00:09 - 00:40)

• The volume heavily focuses on nuanced character development, especially through Shannon’s perspective witnessing her boyfriend’s transformation into a foglet nanite cloud.

Foglet Community Portrayed With Compassion and Complexity (00:20 - 00:30)

• Unlike previous depictions of similar groups, foglets are shown with sincere community leadership and self-identification emphasizing diversity in futuristic identities.

Technology and Immortality Are Central Themes (00:40 - 00:50)

• Through stories of foglets and revivals, the volume probes philosophical questions about humanity, post-humanism, and the dream of immortality tempered by corporate apathy.

Cultural Preservation and Monoculture Presented With Moral Ambiguity (01:00 - 01:10)

• The "Reservations" narrative addresses ethics around preserving cultures artificially, raising questions about authenticity, colonialism, and the costs of forced cultural isolation.

️‍️ Spider Jerusalem Is Portrayed As Flawed But Principled (01:40 - 02:00)

• The discussions depict Spider as acerbic and often ruthless but committed to truth and justice, highlighting both his journalistic integrity and personal blind spots or collateral damage resulting from his actions.

The Volume Uses Tonal Whiplash and Satire to Address Serious Issues (01:20 - 02:00)

• The narrative ranges from humorous, zany sequences reminiscent of Looney Tunes and Harley Quinn, to dark and tragic moments, balancing entertainment with political and social commentary.

Strong Community and Podcast Engagement Announced (02:07 - 02:14)

• The hosts highlight ongoing projects for community involvement including podcast series “Trade School,” upcoming creator interviews, and encourage listeners to join their Discord and social media channels.

Transcription

00:00
Keith
Foreign.

00:09
Case
Hey everyone, and welcome back to the Word from Tomorrow. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Keith Lettinen.

00:17
Keith
Hello everybody.

00:18
Case
Keith. Today is a great day. We are digging into volume two of Trans Metropolitan Lust for Life. And to have that conversation, we are joined by Jeff Moonan.

00:29
Gen
Hi there, everybody.

00:30
Case
Jeff, welcome to the show.

00:32
Gen
Thank you so much for having me, Keith. Thank you. This is. I'm excited to be here. I'm excited to talk about this.

00:38
Keith
Hell yeah, I am too. This is an episode that I've like. I mean, we'll get into it, but I'm happy to talk about this volume.

00:48
Gen
Yeah, Volume two especially is. I mean, we'll get into it, but it is a funky beat in kind of what is the whole of the series.

00:57
Case
Yeah, this would be what I would describe as like the fun and games portion of the series. If you were looking at the like the save the cat like beat sheet kind of part of the screenwriting, like, we've established the character. We, we've done a couple of like characters set up moments in the first volume. This one we've got three one shots that are of various sort of world building and just sort of like, you know, the elements of Spider are actually like kind of fun and positive through this. And then we get a very Bugs Bunny style rampage through the city as he is being chased by, you know, like very weird kind of goons. And so we do get some moments of violence and so forth, but like they're long shots, they're self defense.

01:44
Case
You know, it's like Spider is very much in the right in this whole situation in this last arc of the book. And I think it's just a very charming book that's meant to sort of endear you to the character. If the first volume was a little too acerbic.

02:00
Keith
Yeah. So we talked a lot about the tone last episode and like how it slingshots back and forth. And I was trying to explain it to a friend of mine when I read this volume and I was like, you know what I want to compare to is the Simpsons because like, you'll have an episode where it's like, aw, Lisa has a jazz mentor and he died and she has to deal with that and honor his legacy. And then the next episode's like, homer got into clown college. It's just kind of like that to an extreme is basically, it's kind of like that where you're like, wow, Homer fell off a cliff. And he survived and he fell off again. It's just like, wow, it really slingshots a lot. And I don't know why that was the thing that popped into my.

02:44
Keith
I was like, yeah, just kind of goes back and forth, but in a good way, I think.

02:48
Gen
Yeah, I think that's something about when you introduce a certain amount of scale. Because I would say the first and second volumes of Trans Metropolitan are kind of in concert with each other. I mean, I really became intrigued by Warren Ellis's writing before I ever read Trans Metropolitan. I read Next Wave.

03:05
Keith
Oh, so good.

03:07
Case
Yeah, very fun series.

03:08
Gen
And that was a series of two issue arcs set up Knockdown, Nothing Matters. Everything Matters. Whatever, you don't care. And I would say on a larger Volume one and volume two are kind of that same feeling of arc in setting up both Spider and the city.

03:23
Keith
Yes.

03:24
Gen
Because you have so much going on and there is. When one of them is sympathetic, the other is antagonistic.

03:31
Keith
Yes. And I hadn't told Jeff yet. So the premise of this is that I've never read this. This is my first read through and I'm only reading up to where we're reviewing. So I don't know what happens after this volume yet. So amazing when I'm blind. So, yeah.

03:46
Case
So on that note, Jeff, what is your familiarity with Trans Metropolitan? Like, what's your background? And then what did you do crazily to prepare for this call?

03:56
Gen
Well, I would say that the short version is, this is your fault, Case.

04:02
Keith
Because so many things.

04:03
Gen
So many things. I mean, so much of CPOV is germinated by me and Case having long, weird shifts at a theater and talking about stuff and sharing stuff. And I remember very distinctly during the load in For Rent in Stage one at New World Stages, you lent me your E reader or sent me files or I think it was your E reader. I was on a break, like, trying to blow through as much of the series as possible on the E Reader and then trying to scrape it together and read what I could as just time went on from there. So I first read it. Jesus, that was like 12, 13 years ago, something like that. Trying to remember. But that was. It was something totally different again.

04:54
Gen
I had read other Warren Ellis work before that, and I know in the last episode, y' all kind of covered ground on him and where he currently stands and things. And yes, of course, that notwithstanding. But it was a series that I had never read anything like it before, certainly in what it was trying to say, what it was trying to do. I've always Had a fascination with cyberpunk, not necessarily delving super deep. I've never read the Neuromancer. Okay, Like, I'm bad at this. But I am somebody who was the right age when Final Fantasy VII came about, and a lot of tales of transhumanism and technology, corporate control and political influence, and being somebody who was just kind of coming into teenagerhood, young adulthood, as the turn of the century happened. So reading this in my twenties was an excellent.

05:53
Gen
A balm of some kind. I don't know what it was soothing and I don't know what it was inciting, but it was a fun series for me and one that I actually haven't revisited in a very long time. So when you asked me to do this, I'd actually. I have all of the trades. I had recently acquired them from a friend of mine who was kind of cleaning house. They were moving and said, who wants these? Mine. I haven't read them in forever. I really ought to. So when you reached out about this. Well, the reread has begun. So, Keith, I'm really glad to hear that you were kind of reading up to the moment, because that's sort of what I wanted to do. I read the first two volumes a couple of times just to kind of reacquaint myself.

06:31
Gen
And everything else is based off of memories. I have sort of the echoes of the future, kind of the going to the reservation and getting the pollen, as it were.

06:40
Keith
Right. Awesome.

06:42
Case
Excellent. Excellent. All right. Well, I love being reminded of how many things are my fault and how they can be traced back to new world stages.

06:53
Gen
I am often told the same thing. It is that very equal measure. Oh, that's nice. Oh, that's terrible. We exist in this world.

07:02
Case
Indeed. So why don't we get into the conversation about the book at hand? We open with the first chapter, which is Boyfriend is a Virus. And it is the follow up to the plot thread that we've had with Zhang Channen's boyfriend, who, as we established last time, was here until he's not. And we find out now what the. Until he's not circumstances are, and that is that he wanted to be downloaded. He wanted to become one of these nanite clouds that. That were introduced to in the last volume. And Shannon's pretty upset about this at the opening. She doesn't fully understand the process. She's. She's our audience surrogate in this. In this capacity, which I find interesting because it's did come across in the previous volume like it was fairly common, like we saw like a foglet, like just out on the street in.

08:03
Case
In the previous volume and we saw a commercial for them or some media bite about them.

08:09
Gen
Well, there's a difference between it being part of the world and being part of your world. I'm aware of a lot of different religious sects that are out there, but if somebody close to me were converting to it and it would feel different to me, and that's a far less extreme or, you know, it would be more like, I'm aware of suicide cults, but I feel like someone is joining one. And that's kind of how it hits home for Shannon, I think.

08:35
Keith
Yeah, no, 100%. And especially in the situation that they're in with this relationship that is clearly not good, but hard to let go of. It is a great situation, like emotional situation to make someone the audience surrogate. There's not just the let's tell the audience what's going on, but there's a genuine emotional attachment to the discovering to figure out what's going on. I think they couch that pretty well. And that relationship is a good idea.

09:01
Case
Yeah, I don't mind it per se. It just is one of those things that just strikes me more because Shannon comes across especially more as the series develops as fairly worldly. And so it just surprised me that this is a gap of her knowledge be. Just because she, like, is that while she serves the audience surrogate role here and does so for other things, it's usually areas that her. Her youth sort of explains her naivete. Whereas this one, like I said it just. Like I said it was just sort of surprised me just because she is, generally speaking, fairly worldly. But it works really well to. To as a vehicle for us to understand the story. And I get that the emotional stakes of having it all tied into her grief. So like it's. It's an effective story. It's just like one.

09:48
Case
Like again, like, she's just a worldly character. So it's like, oh, okay.

09:53
Gen
I think actually it is her emotional investment that allows her to let this be a blind spot. How many things do we just sort of go, I just don't understand it. I just don't understand it. When you have an image or something that you are attached to and the shift. It is a thing that a conversion that is happening to someone close to her as well as a breakup or. I don't actually don't recall if Zhang says it's a breakup, if he's just doing that, but I think it was. Or if Shannon's just interpreting it as such. But that does cause us to latch onto certain things and miss certain details. And I think that is a reminder of how young Shannon is. She is intelligent, she is capable, she is worldly. But we are all imperfect.

10:37
Gen
And age is one of those axes in which lacking can be revealed.

10:44
Keith
Yeah. And I think it's. I think one of the things we're discovering about this world is there's a lot of, like, wildly varying lifestyles and they all seem to be very siloed, if you will. Like, one of the reasons Spider's writing these articles is because the population doesn't know these stories. And I think that's very much reflected in her. Like, I'm aware of these things. I might have seen one on the street. I don't know how it works. I've never seen the transformation, you know what I mean? And so, yeah, I think that's like, again, Spider's roles to make sure not to just tell us, not to just tell her, but to tell his audience what's going on. And that's, you know, again, we talked about last episode. I'm hugely a big supporter of journalism.

11:32
Keith
It's one of my biggest things in the world is, like, open and free journalism. So that's one of the things that drew me originally to the series and this one, I think the first three issues of this volume, specifically being so focused on his journalism and the stories he's telling, I think is what really drew me to these stories a lot.

11:55
Gen
Well, the first volume really kind of hits you hard and fast with. This place is insane.

12:03
Keith
It's crazy.

12:04
Gen
It's wild. Look at what the children are doing. Look at what people can do to themselves. Look at what the advertising is. Oh, my God. And we're just allowing this to happen. Yeah. I mean, that's life. But it tries to hit you with almost a feeling of how Spider feels coming back to the city and just like, oh, God, I hate this place. But these stories, these columns of spiders allows for. Yeah, it is crazy. But these are still people.

12:30
Case
Yeah.

12:31
Gen
And this whole volume, I think, explores kind of that push and pull of macro and micro of. Do you speak for a collective? Do you speak for a community? Do you speak for an individual? You can't do that for everybody all the time. And journalism is a lens and what is found and what is lost in trying to bring things to light.

12:55
Keith
Yeah.

13:00
Gen
But it's. And in this instance with Zhang and with that. I mean, in particular, thinking on Mary's story with the cryogenics, that is a big one for me as far as a dream that everybody has for themselves some kind of immortality. And it's exploring to two different kinds of immortality in becoming the fog as well as becoming a new body for yourself. And what that sense of eternity means. And I mean eternity is fame and that is what Spider is fighting the entire time as well. There's a very interesting web here, which is why yet again I find this volume being a cool mirror to the first one.

13:41
Keith
Yeah.

13:44
Case
Yeah, no, excellent point about the eternity component of it. Especially when it's reflected with then the past component of the history of. In the third volume or third issue of this volume.

13:57
Gen
Yeah, I'm jumping ahead there.

13:59
Case
Yeah. But no like great points on that. And again it's. It is this different. Each one is a different way of exploring like the telling of the story of a part of this world. And so with this one, Channon is tasked to write the article and we just are with them on the ride of her experiencing it. We don't see the article that she ultimately writes about this.

14:25
Gen
Yeah, and it's very funny too that allowing Shannon to be the viewpoint character here. I would say this is the first time I, this issue is the first one where I see Spider as anything resembling an actual living human being. The whole first volume, I feel like he is a caricature, a Persona, a fantasy. There is something of, golly, wouldn't it be great if I could just act like this and have reasons to get away with it? Wouldn't it be amazing if I could stop a riot by writing about it? To have that kind of power and to be able to use it for good and to get to be a little shit while I do it. God, that wouldn't that just be great kind of feeling. And there's cool in all of that.

15:16
Gen
But the sympathy that Spider shows Shannon during this process and a little bit of, especially after what he had said to her about their relationship and her reaction to it, a bit of humanization there. A bit of like, oh yeah, I can, you know, I'm not completely self centered. I'm just a drug addled weirdo and you know, cyberpunk Huntress Thompson. But allowing to be a soft but drug shaky hand through a process and through grief and closure and insisting on the closure. Even the way that Spider insists that Shannon goes and sees the process isn't necessarily a, well, screw you, we're doing it right now.

16:01
Case
Ha ha.

16:01
Gen
It's more of a you're gonna want this. If for nothing else Closure's great. It may not get you what you want, but you're gonna want it. Yeah.

16:09
Keith
It's almost like he's her friend.

16:12
Gen
Almost like he cares about people around him sometimes.

16:16
Keith
Yeah. I pointed out in the first volume that when she showed up, my interest in the story definitely went up because I was a little worried this is gonna be a cartoon for 10 volumes. But she really humanizes him a lot and that this first issue of this volume is probably my favorite story so far. Yeah. Yeah, it is. I think it is, actually. Well, it gets replaced later on in the volume, but up to that point, it had been my favorite. And maybe it's because I just like Shannon so much. I really like her as a character so very much.

16:51
Gen
Yeah, she's a wonderful character. And we get to watch, you know, Nanite Fogg's. Fuck. They don't even have to censor it.

16:59
Case
Yeah. So why don't we go through the beats of this one? So after Shannon explains the whole situation with Zhang to Spider, and Spider responds with saying. Because she describes it as being a form of suicide.

17:12
Gen
Right.

17:13
Case
And Spider is, like, being downloaded is pretty far from. From suicide. And that this is when he rings up an old acquaintance of his, Tico Cortez, who is a foglet. And it is. It's. It's a little bit of just like, oh, it's fortuitous that, like, the guy just happens to being up or being downloaded in the specific community, that Spider happens to be on, like, a really good, friendly basis with the head foglet. Like, that's just, like, narrative convenience right there. But, hey, it works.

17:45
Gen
We don't know how many of these communities there are.

17:49
Case
We don't, but they establish that at least there are a plurality of them. It doesn't. Again, it doesn't matter.

17:57
Keith
It's just.

17:57
Case
It's a narrative convenience where it's just like, oh. You know, for the. For the sake of making it the most personable situation of someone introducing you to the world of foglets and the downloading process, we get Tico, and I like Tico a lot. I think that he's a. I observed when I was doing the Superman analogs roundup video that I say fun a lot as a description for things, and I was starting to go insane doing that video, and now I'm catching myself describing things as fun, and I'm going insane slightly. So anyway, it's verbal tic that I've observed about myself. Anyway, I like Tico. I think that the. I think he has a Lot of charm to him as a representative of the. Of the Foglet community here.

18:45
Case
And it's really nice to have someone who does not seem to be like a fucked up, manipulative bastard the way Fred Christ was in looking at a community here. And this would be where. If we're discussing the. The potential sensitivity about, like, trans identity and how it was represented with the transients in the first one, I would argue that this is a counter argument to that where because. Because a form of body modification is not. Is incredibly embraced by Spider here, that at the very least, it's a situation of, like, the identity is the one that you decide for yourself.

19:26
Gen
Well, and that's a big key on these kinds of things. I mean, for one, if you delve into the greater trans community, you will find that there are infinite fractals of trans community as far as how people are, how they believe, how they relate to each other, and inclusion and exclusion. But also you run into kind of in allegories like these in volume one and volume two, between Foglets and transients, there comes the odd debate over whether it is identification, self identification, or if it is body modification. Now, those can often overlap. Those can often be part and parcel of each other, but depending upon how it is presented, how it is written, that can also get very murky and that we then have to remember. Spider's not writing this, Warren's writing this, and it becomes strange levels on top of that.

20:25
Gen
But I would definitely agree that Foglets are given a much more sympathetic kind of air about it because I think also because a sense of leadership has been decentralized or at least is not shown to us. Where the transient community is in volume one can be traced back to Fred Christ, who was established kind of pretty quickly as a charlatan.

20:51
Keith
Yeah. Who sucks.

20:52
Gen
Who sucks. Yeah. And that there again carries with it. Yeah. No, I mean, as far as poor representation for actors within a queer coded community, well, those days have certainly come to a goddamned middle. So, you know, Fred Christ is on that one. And maybe there is some murky, crazy, like, oh, God kind of thing about the Foglets as well, but Tico is, you know, a nanite cloud, but is also very human in that he is blunt and he is a bit showy and how human is that? And that. And I think that is fun case. It shows so much more. It's easy in these sorts of things to be like, here's the world of trans metropolitan. There's crazy things and it goes like. And to make it a big Exposition dump.

21:44
Gen
But having those things delivered by character, not just characters and mouthpieces, but Tico is a character with character and that tells as much about it as anything that is in his speech bubbles.

21:58
Keith
Yeah, there's comparing again to the transients. There's a sincerity to the foglets that there wasn't there with the transients. The transients we talked about how they specifically point out, like, this is basically like they're just doing it because it's not a sense of identity. It's not like I'm an alien deep down, you know, which is, you know, a self identity thing. That's one thing.

22:23
Gen
Right.

22:24
Keith
It was more like, oh, this is cool right now. You know what I mean? Like, and so the foglets were presented very much like there's a sincerity there and there's also not a lot of like, condemning what they are. There's like, this is their thing. You might not agree with it and it might not be for you, but this is their thing, you know what I mean? And maybe there's some good things about it. Like they don't shy away of being like, hey, you live forever, you can do this. You can make things out of nothing. And I, yeah, there was a big distinct difference there. But I do like them being compared in back to back volumes because I think it's a very interesting thing for Spider not to necessarily just condemn everything that's not him. You know what I mean?

23:06
Keith
I think that was cool.

23:08
Gen
That would get very old very quickly.

23:10
Keith
Yeah.

23:11
Gen
Spider, too, is human. And Spider seeks to write and fight for the underserved, the underprivileged, and to speak truth to power. And again, as somebody who is part of the queer community, as somebody who is, you know, trans, non, binary, gender fluid, I have met a lot of interesting people and I've met plenty of folk that are, that do amazing things, that are pillars of the community, that are also utter bastards that I don't know how much time I could spend with them. But I also revere and respect and try to take care of people just as they do. And I can disagree with them, but goddammit, we're fighting a fight.

23:49
Keith
Yeah.

23:50
Gen
And that's a piece of it too.

23:52
Case
Yeah. So we get a nice moment where Spider says, we're going to go and stuff our arteries with plenty of salt and lots of wheat beer. And just as a person who really enjoys a good wheat beer, I felt very seen at that moment there.

24:07
Gen
Cushions a lot.

24:11
Case
So then we get Spider and Shannon, and Spider is super dressed up he's put on a tux with tails.

24:18
Keith
He looks ridiculous.

24:19
Gen
I love that the first time we see his chest covered in ages.

24:23
Case
Yes. And so they ride into the city on a horse drawn carriage and Spider gets up on the horse and we find out that the horse is cybernetically enhanced and is able to speak and complains about Spider riding on his back. But Spider mostly uses this time to exposit about. About the downloading and foglet movement. And he brings up a. A real sci fi or I guess real. I. I don't want to say sci fi. A real like futurist. Hans Moravec who is a. An actual author in. In Computer science and brings up these, the sort of like post human kind of identity concept which is really doing a Ship of Theseus argument there of like how. How many pieces can you replace before. Before you stop being human?

25:19
Case
And the argument here is that infinite that you could go as far as becoming fully machine. And in this scenario if you're fully machine, why not be what the potential of the machines are? And so we get the explanation of like why people go into this sort of like foglet identity or form. I want to say we arrive at their venue which is less ostentatious. It's a, it's still a very impressive kind of building and so forth. But like Spider describes the transformation process as being these like big celebrations and it's noted as being way toned down. Like instead of having like big bouquets of flowers and like you know, big.

26:02
Gen
You know, drinks and chat and I believe were some of the things you mentioned.

26:05
Case
Right, exactly like that. That's all gone. But Tico meets them there and Tico shows off his abilities like as a foglet he is able to just out of thin air create anything. And he describes it is out of thin air because he's using the atoms of thin air to. As the base material to then produce whatever which is like godlike powers.

26:26
Gen
Which is something of an evolution on sort of an organic model of what the makers do. Except it's not quite 3D printing. And I'm just realizing now that all of the Foglets are sort of the same shade of pink that Adam Eve is invincible, who shares a similar power set. And I do wonder if there's a reference there or if that's just coincidence.

26:49
Case
I mean considering like Robert Kirkman loves having a good reference in there. So it's not out of the question.

26:58
Gen
You know, to paraphrase a later Quote in the book. I mean, considering one's history with references, it's conceivable.

27:08
Case
For sure. Anyway, so Tico leads them down to the observation booth where they get to see Zhang go through the transformation process. Now, this is actually a thing that I find kind of funky, which is that they. It like they're able to see Zhang through a one way mirror, two way mirror, whatever the terming on that one is, where it's a mirror one way and you can see through it the other. And so Zhang is not able to observe. And they say it's to preserve his sense of privacy, which it occurs to me, is kind of fucked up. Like, oh, it's like, oh, anyone can watch and you just don't know.

27:48
Gen
That has.

27:50
Keith
Go ahead.

27:51
Gen
That has its own kind of. I didn't quite think of it the way that you just said it, but I mean, anything that we do, we often do things for our sense of self, sense of identity, even if that's our outfit that we pick for the day. The thing that we do privately within our own confines, and then are observed publicly. I mean, as somebody who lives in New York City, I am aware of. I am a figure in stories for people that I have never met and will never speak to again. And this is that both writ large and small, but also weird.

28:32
Keith
I think part, I mean, part of it in my head, as you say, that I'm thinking about how again, they've toned down the celebration of it all and it's not even a big deal so much what's happening, so much as let's just get this over with. And so part of me wonders like, does he really care if anyone sees his body? Because he doesn't give a shit about his body. You know what I mean?

28:52
Case
I'm sure he doesn't. I'm just saying.

28:54
Keith
No, no, I agree with you. I just think it's. That's the angle I think of immediately when you say that.

28:59
Case
Like it was just the wording to describe it as like a sense of privacy by way of hiding your ability to see that you're being seen, not the other way around.

29:07
Gen
Like the way I saw it was considering Channon's feelings about it. I imagine she's not the only person who has that kind of reaction in this city when somebody close to them is making this, you know, transition, conversion, going through this process. And so this allows those people to have closure, whatever that may be, or without it being the responsibility of the person going through the process, having to babysit to Concierge, kind of. I've decided I'm doing this. I'm happy I'm doing this. I am not responsible for your feelings, but you are making it my responsibility for how you feel about my choice here. This allows them the privacy of being like, I'm doing what I want to be doing. And I feel confident in that.

29:56
Gen
And everyone else, whatever they're feeling, whatever wailing and gnashing of teeth, whatever quiet, upset, acceptance, whatever it is not going to interrupt the intimacy of finally stepping through that threshold.

30:09
Keith
Yeah.

30:12
Gen
Also, this city watches everybody for everything. So if it's only a couple of people, that's kind of an improvement.

30:19
Case
Yeah, I mean, it makes. It does make sense. It was just a weird way of phrasing it that. That struck me. I was like, oh, that's strange. But it makes a lot of sense. In the book, being still edgelord, as in. In lots of ways, goes out of their way to make sure that, like, you just remember that Jang is just really horny for this whole situation. When they ask if he's ready, he says he's been ready for this since his first orgasm he ever had, which just speaks to the. This thing that they keep on saying. Oh, he's queer for machinery. He has a crime for masturbating in public over, like, servers. It's just, you know, they want him to be gross.

30:57
Keith
If that dude said that I was the one running the machine, he's like, since my first orgasm. I'd be like, all right, well, you're gonna have to mature a little bit. Come back in about five years. That's really stupid. At least come up with a better line next time, man.

31:14
Gen
I can't imagine. Again, that's probably the third weirdest thing the technicians heard this week.

31:21
Case
True, right?

31:23
Gen
Like, it ranks. It ranks.

31:25
Keith
Yeah.

31:25
Gen
I don't know if it's the weirdest, though. I kind of. Given the way that this city is presented. Yeah. Like, whether that was just off the dome for him or he was just ready with that line.

31:40
Keith
I'm just sitting thinking, what am I gonna say?

31:42
Gen
What am I gonna say?

31:44
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

31:45
Case
That's the line he was working on.

31:47
Gen
That's the line he was working on. I mean, also considering the weird little chastity cage looking setup that his groin has in the machinery. Like, he's hooked up, he's stripped bare. Except for the modesty there, which, again, in an intimate space, did he request that if we are kind of going for the Watsonian and not the doylist explanation of why his Junk is covered when we see it is.

32:14
Keith
Is.

32:16
Gen
I don't know.

32:17
Keith
Yeah.

32:19
Gen
Why not get a little horny for getting to be exactly what you want to be.

32:22
Case
Yeah. Again, I don't disagree. This is not the weirdest thing to be said. I'm sure there's a lot of. I'm sure there's a lot of people who go through this who are horny for machines.

32:33
Gen
Donatello Dust machines.

32:35
Case
Yes, exactly. It's just, again, noting that the book is going out of their way to be like, this guy is very horny for machines. Just for the record, I mean, through.

32:43
Gen
Throughout the whole book, there is absolutely a.

32:45
Keith
Can we.

32:46
Gen
Can we make it weird? When can we make it weird? Can I make it weird now? We've got a sincerity moment. Can I make it weird now? So this is just that.

32:54
Case
Yeah. Shannon is not taking this super well. Tico is trying to explain some things to her, and she just responds that she just needs him to shut up for a minute. Wherein we get a. Just a little bit of a side between Tico and Spider where they. They both say things about the other that they wish were different.

33:17
Keith
Yep.

33:18
Case
But I feel like it's in the. It's in the Peppa Pig, like, Grandpa Pig and Grandpa Dog are the very best of friends kind of way where they bark at each other and snort at each other angrily and then wag their tails.

33:30
Gen
There's. There's enough violence that goes on between people and horrible things that happen that just a little bit of sniping is downright heartwarming. Yeah. I believe they're friends.

33:39
Keith
Yeah, I do. I do want to mention, because you mentioned that Spider is like, you know, has an existing relationship, and it's a great plot convenience. I. The more I read this book, the more I'm convinced that Spider literally beefed with every single person in the city before he left because now he knows everyone. Like, it's just like, oh, yeah, you know, oh, I'm doing this, you know, droplet thing. Oh, is it Tico? Yeah, I know Tico. It's very funny to me.

34:03
Gen
He was a public figure. One of the reasons he ran to the mountains was. It's just like, I wouldn't be left alone.

34:09
Keith
Yeah, exactly.

34:10
Case
That makes sense. So we get the actual process of downloading where. Where Zhang's mind is. Is sent into this cloud, and then it eats his body as. As raw matter to jumpstart the cloud that it's creating. And it's this big, you know, energetic effect that is kind of terrifying for Shannon to Watch. Like, she is. She looks on with horror as. As it sort of destroys or as the body is destroyed. And it kind of looks like the reverse of the fifth Element, where they, like, slowly add the layers to the body.

34:44
Gen
Yeah.

34:44
Keith
Yeah, totally. I didn't think about that.

34:47
Case
And. And we're. We're left with a big pink floating cloud that then. Then merges with the other pink floating cloud that was there helping him with the process. And. And Tico makes the mistake of being honest about what is going on to Channon when she asks what. What's happening? And it's that they're having sex. And that's, like, really upsetting for Shannon.

35:07
Keith
She.

35:09
Case
She. She did really have feelings for this man who is now a pink floating cloud. And he's immediately off, like, hooking up with the machine right after this whole crazy process happened to her. Like, she was barely holding on for the whole transformation process. And then immediately to have him just, like, be like. Like a fruit flag going off to go fuck is just, you know, too much for her. And she breaks.

35:34
Gen
There is a beautiful line that she has right before that happens during the. Yeah, the beautiful art of it all, you know, the fairy dust for a body kind of thing, where she just says, look at you. You've locked the door behind you. Don't get second thoughts. Now that little. She is getting that closure. She is having that feeling of, I don't have to accept this. I just want you to accept it because you're doing this. You know, a little bit of this hurts, but Godspeed. And then that's the first thing you do, for God's sake.

36:06
Keith
Yeah. Yeah. So I guess my question to you guys that I want to ask about this is, do you think it's best for her that she witnessed this?

36:22
Gen
Yes.

36:24
Keith
I do too, actually. Yeah. I was just curious because that was the whole premise of it. Should she see this spider? Thought so. And I was just curious to see what you guys thought so.

36:32
Case
Yeah, I think so. I think it's. It makes sense that the. The journey, she goes on following it. But I think it. I. I think that witnessing this process, it. Like, if she didn't understand, it would be just worse.

36:47
Keith
Yeah. And I think also it's a. It's a release thing, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you physically see it, you can let it go. You know what I mean? Like, yeah. And also she kind of knows it's beyond it now. You know what I mean? There's no going back, like you mentioned. Yeah. There's no going back at this point. So, yeah.

37:04
Gen
And it's one where if she wants to be a journalist, certainly despite her viewpoint, if she wants to write about these things, if she wants to seek the truth, she can't shy away from it just because it personally hurts. Now, whether or not that is the best method, whether or not that is a perfect viewpoint, it certainly is. Spiders.

37:23
Keith
Yep.

37:25
Gen
And I don't think it's entirely wrong. I mean, much like Spider, I don't think it's entirely right, but I don't think it's entirely wrong. And that's what keeps Spider compelling.

37:34
Case
You're not wrong. You're just an asshole.

37:37
Keith
It's true. Yep. We talked about that a lot last.

37:39
Gen
Episode, and there's a lot of exploration of what that means about Spider in this volume. Much more in the first one. The first one shows what the fuckhead can get done and what being not wrong, but an asshole can accomplish in this world. And now we see what that means for the asshole. And he can have an effect on the. On the personal level in bringing Chan into this process, but also, you know, doesn't always go swimmingly, but it gets somewhere. And that might be enough for him right now, but it did drive him away from the city for a while because it does add up.

38:21
Case
Yeah. Well, why don't we move on to the next chapter, which is, I would say, part of the Spider redemption tour. On the whole, you're an asshole bit here, because it's a. It's a human interest story that, as far as we can tell, is purely a positive interaction from Spider. It's him using his. His fame, his cloud, and then also his. His personal resources ultimately to. To help a person who is in a bad situation. Because now we're doing an issue about the revivals which were set up in the previous volume. Again, like, there's a lot of exposition all over the place, hidden in. In the ads and then the media blurbs that we get. And so revivals were set up already, but this goes through the process of what it was like to be a revival, which is.

39:07
Case
We follow this woman, Mary, who was a journalist herself. She was a photographer, a war correspondent, a. Someone who would have gone through, like. Who would have gone through, like, a Forrest Gump like series of escapades to just observe the. All the changes of the 20th century. And then when she died, her head was frozen and sent and held until the future, until now, where she has been revived, her body has been cloned, and her. Her mind has been transferred. Into this, into this young clone body of hers. And Spider goes into great detail because the perspective of this issue is it's the column like that he wrote about it as opposed to us, like seeing his thought process of creating the column like this is just the column. And. And so he goes through the whole process of just how crazy it is.

40:03
Case
What that they're able to speed. Clone human bodies that way like that. That's so wild. And that it's also crazy just like how little people care about it because they talk about like people ashing or, or urine and yeah. Taking a piss into Mary's empty suspension can. Like, like they're just being gross and like, just like every job, like, people find ways to be like, gross around it. Oh yeah. And they. And just how traumatic the process of being a revival is, regardless of like, how far back you come from. But for someone who comes back from a very long time ago, it's particularly traumatic. Like, she was positioned to be well embracing of the future. She had as good a mind for modernity as possible and she was overwhelmed by it. Yeah.

40:56
Keith
Yeah. This is my favorite story so far and I doubt, I, I doubt it's going to be overtaken in any future volumes anytime soon. I really liked this story quite a bit. Part of it is the. I mean, again, we're talking about Transmetropolitan. I love speculative fiction, so I like that we're addressing like, and again with the Foglets and stuff like that, or get these one shots of a speculative idea that maybe isn't too far in the future in some cases. And this one specifically. There's something about the idea of a legacy. There's something about the idea of continuing on beyond your natural time frame that really appeals to me. That is something that hits me deep. So that really helped in this. There was also. One of the things we started the show about Case is how prescient the series is.

41:51
Keith
And not just the technology, but the prescience of corporations that make big promises and then do as little as possible to fulfill them for you and don't have your back is the most prescient thing that's happened in this series so far. Like, they'll go by the word of their warranty. They're not going to go an inch further. Like, how much harder would it be to have somebody to help her adjust when she comes out? Someone to just actually be there when she comes out? That was the thing that killed me was she comes out of the cloning vat. And it's 10 minutes before someone walks in there to talk to her. Like that's insane. Like you're just in your head for 10 minutes. Oh man, that fucked me up. I'll be frank with you. Right, yeah.

42:38
Gen
Yeah. It shows that the process and technology can. Can do amazing things. And that is something prescient that we're living with now where technology can do quote unquote, amazing things. But it's infrastructure that matters more than anything, that maintains humanity. One of my favorite back and forth and evolutions of cyberpunk, speculative fiction and arguments is prosthetics is replacing your mind in robot bodies is transhumanism. Because there is that notion of, you know, do you feel you lose your humanity as you replace your body, as you go into a new body? That's Ship of Theseus argument of the previous issue. But is it you lose your humanity because there is less of you, or do you lose your humanity because you are not taking care of you while you change?

43:34
Gen
And in this sense of, yeah, they have preserved these people, they are bringing them back and then just throwing them out like a fish. They are fish. They are fishing them out of the lake and then leaving them on the dock. Maybe some of them find their way to safety. Most just die in the sun.

43:51
Keith
Yep. They fulfilled their contract with the person to the letter. And nothing further.

43:56
Gen
You told me to catch fish, I caught fish.

43:58
Keith
Yeah, exactly. Like here you have a body now, we don't owe you anything else. And I'm like, Jesus Christ. Like that. That, yeah, definitely hit me. Yeah.

44:08
Gen
And what is the infrastructure of the world that allows for that kind of integration? Do you have a bank account? Do you have a Social Security number? Do you have. Or whatever passes for it these days? What insurance do you have and what rights does that give you?

44:21
Case
What is all the treats specifically that they provide? Money adjusted for inflation.

44:26
Gen
That's right, they did.

44:27
Keith
They do pay you back savings. Yeah, yeah.

44:29
Case
So. So there is some sort of infrastructure set up for them.

44:34
Gen
But sometimes what is money if you don't have access to it? Do they have access to that money?

44:37
Case
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering. Like it. Like there's at least lines that address some of that. So it is possible that if it's like chips or something like that they get.

44:47
Gen
Yeah.

44:48
Case
However, the, the system of money is. Is not very well established in the world of trans metropolitan. It's kind of comically small for figures. As we established last time you used.

45:02
Gen
The three Seashells to get money.

45:03
Keith
Yes.

45:04
Gen
Come on.

45:06
Keith
I like that we all got that. I'm so happy for us.

45:10
Gen
I felt safe taking that shot in the dark.

45:12
Case
No. The Venn diagram, Demolition band and transmit fans are probably pretty small.

45:19
Gen
It's a blurry circle. It's a very blurry circle.

45:23
Case
But we get the revivals hostel that they. They send them off to and we. We see graffiti where it says, off back to your freezers. So, like, we established that the future doesn't want these people.

45:33
Gen
People are people and it's other community.

45:36
Case
Yeah. And Mary breaks when she sort of understands that the. The future has no interest in the past and that they. It's. That they are there because of begrudging sense of duty and that is it. And then we see Mary actually interact with Spider, who we see sort of like get the story from her and then concludes the story with him finishing the typing of it and going outside and sort of smoking a cigarette and just like thinking, you know, deep thoughts into the night because he was so moved by Mary.

46:08
Gen
There is something very cyclical and interesting in that sequence of events and in the sort of past to future to past, because war correspondents, photographers, there is the capturing of moments. And how often has the debate gone up, whether in good or bad faith, about a photographer capturing a horrible moment and then being condemned for inaction, whereas the capturing of the moment is the best action they can take. And yet there is still the debate. And there is also the question of shining a light on the plight of those that are unhoused, those that are invisible and forgotten by the system. Is simply telling their story, enriching yourself to feel good about it? Is it actually doing any help?

46:57
Gen
Again, a conversation and argument and debate that will continue apparently for a very long time, because here we are with it with Spider, and not one that could be handled in an issue of a comic book, necessarily, but I think by having Spider, a journalist, get this story through a fellow journalist and getting a sense of place and time, it kind of gives it. Saying that, oh, well, that makes it okay is not necessarily correct, but it does create this kind of rhythm and rhyme to it that I think lets this actually hit pretty better than if it was just a random person. I mean, it is a random person, but it's not just any random person.

47:44
Keith
Yeah, I like that we're getting consistency from Spider because he's a character. I would worry about consistency from that. He will be a chaos gremlin. He'll assault people. He'll do a Lot of horrible things. But he will always defend the downtrodden, the people who definitely got screwed by the system. He's always going to have their back, is the impression I'm getting from him in this. And it's ironic. Like we started earlier, when you're talking about how you and Casement, you mentioned rent. I immediately thought of Mark with the homeless woman.

48:20
Gen
That's exactly what I'm thinking of. Yeah, yeah.

48:23
Keith
Where it's just like, he's just taping her. I'm like, I'm not your art. And I was like, yeah. No, she's like, you got a dollar? Like, that's. I always think of that one. It's like, this is more. Definitely more productive for this woman. You know, he's getting the word out. He's not just making it about him. And I think that's also reflected in the fact that the comic, the issue isn't about him. He doesn't appear to the very end. And I think that was super well done to get that across, that this is her story and it's not Spider.

48:52
Gen
Telling her story, because Spider is already known in world and to us. It's not important for us to see Spider. We don't need to know who the journalist is. We already know. We're already reading the byline. People want to read. I hate it here, people. We want to read the Adventures of Spider, Jerusalem Chaos journalist. Yep, that's. We don't need to establish that we're learning about Mary here.

49:18
Keith
Yeah, it was. It was really affecting. I really liked this issue.

49:23
Case
Yeah, it's one that always stands out to me. Like, if. If you'd asked me to, like, summarize the book, I certainly would have, like, mentioned that there was stories like Mary's story interspersed in there between the bigger arcs. And it. It sticks with you. It's. It's kind of. It's kind of like the inner light in. In Star Trek the Next Generation. It's like, here's a little snapshot story of a person's life that we're just like witness to.

49:47
Gen
Well, this was also because Trans Metropolitan ran from what, 1997 to 2002? Something like that.

49:54
Keith
Yep. Yeah, that's right.

49:55
Gen
So we're 1997, 1998. We are in an end of history era of media. We are in the early days of, you know, Joss Whedon style and dealing with, you know, Star Trek series and whatnot. Shows that allow for a bit of breathing room, that allow for these things to tell interesting stories and Development of character. Nowadays it would be filler, nowadays it would be cut for whatever kind of thing. But these are crucial.

50:25
Keith
Yeah. So many shows are 10 episodes, strictly 10 episodes. And there's no room to have fun, no room to explore. And that's one of the biggest problems with TV these days. The only thing that gets launched series is sitcoms and they're inconsequential and.

50:41
Gen
Well. And Keith, I would love to know at the end of this whole ride what you think a 10 episode adaptation of Trans Metropolitan would look like.

50:48
Case
Oh my God.

50:51
Gen
Question for the listeners. Question for us all.

50:54
Keith
It would not be fun, I'll tell you that.

50:56
Gen
No, they might do a better job of getting things in with density nowadays. Yeah, that's faint praise.

51:05
Keith
Yeah.

51:11
Case
Yeah, no, just I, I, I would say that it will be more like where the Buffalo Roam than Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas in terms of structure.

51:20
Keith
Yeah.

51:21
Gen
Yeah. Although I do have to ask at this moment, what does Spider Jerusalem sound like in your head?

51:28
Case
We talked about this last time.

51:29
Gen
Excellent. I, I, the, this is the second episode. I haven't heard the first episode.

51:33
Case
No, no, I know. I'm excited to, I'm excited to say that this is a continuing conversation. Yeah. So, because I was not familiar with Hunter S. Thompson before I first read this book, he is much nasalier to me. And just like how, I'm not entirely sure, like I don't have like an exact one to one person for it, but I was thinking about like, who else could I cast for it? Because we talked about how like Patrick Stewart was interested in it for a while there and so like maybe just like an American ish, Patrick Stewart would sort of like cover the voice. I was also thinking like a Bruce Willis could be playing the part.

52:19
Case
And that's not quite the Spider Jerusalem voice in my head, but like it is another part or another actor I was thinking about for it like a Bruce Willis and like circa like Live Free or Die Hard.

52:31
Gen
Yeah. I feel like nowadays Nicholas Hoult would play him.

52:34
Keith
Oh my God. Yes.

52:36
Case
Right, but as a British person pretending to be American.

52:39
Gen
Right. Because in my head I know that this is America. The, the story takes place in America, whatever else and everything goes everywhere. But in my head he sounds like Murdoch from Gorillaz.

52:52
Case
Okay. Yeah.

52:54
Gen
Which just sort of got that very like, you know, northern but raspy kind of sound about things and then just sort of like dial it back to.

53:01
Case
Be a little more American right now, just because I can't Help myself. I'm doing a replay of Saints Row 3 and I've got my character looking like Spider Jerusalem and I've got him doing the cockney voice.

53:12
Gen
You want a non. You want a northern accent. You want a non London accent on that. You want it to sound rough. Because yet again, there's the class consciousness of accents certainly in Great Britain that there again having that really is a. And I'm going to take down the fucking President.

53:29
Keith
Yeah, kind of feeling, yeah, some Geordie or not quite Liverpool, but something like that.

53:34
Gen
Maybe Birmingham.

53:36
Keith
Birmingham, yeah. 100%. Yeah.

53:38
Gen
Someone sounded like Ozzy Osbourne with a bowel disruptor, but yet again American. And I. And there again, reading through this, I was struck with that again because that's how he sounded the first time I read it. And we did talk about way back when, like, yeah, no, Patrick Stewart wanted to do this and that would have been super cool. But yeah, I think the. A Brit doing a decent job of an American accent, like intentionally decent, like if it gets a little weird or a little mid Atlantic for a second, that kind of works.

54:07
Case
But yeah, like a very, like House kind of accent. Or Benedict Cumberbatch. As. As Doctor Strange.

54:14
Gen
Exactly.

54:15
Keith
There was a rumor because this is one of the first. So this has been in my head since I saw it when I did my research. There was a rumor they wanted Tim Roth to play it. And I was like, fuck, yes. So that's. That's been in my head ever since I read it. I can't really hear anybody else, so. But I. I do love the Nicholas Holt pick. I think that's fucking great.

54:35
Gen
Yeah, I think back then, you want Mr. Orange.

54:38
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

54:40
Gen
But, yeah, that's. That's kind of where my brain goes now thinking about it. But. And I think also the British accent comes in because when you first see him, you just go, oh, we're taking the piss out of Alan Moore, aren't we?

54:52
Keith
We just said that too. And then that's even more of it, aren't they?

54:56
Gen
And back to, you know.

54:57
Case
Yeah, Alan Moore turns into Grant Morrison and that's basically what happened.

55:03
Gen
But this is America, right?

55:05
Case
But this is America. And that's the thing which is all of our voices for Spider Best are a British voice pretending to be an American accent.

55:13
Keith
That's most of the best actors.

55:15
Case
Well, because this is the Warren Ellis voice pretending to have an American infl.

55:20
Gen
Yeah, I suppose that is kind of like I'd mentioned before and kind of throughout this, the whole series, this says as much about the view of the world through Warren Ellis's viewpoint as anybody else's, which is, well, this is the world through Spider's viewpoint. And there again, it all just feels like a Brit trying to sound American, for better or for worse. Yeah, we enjoyed it and we're talking about it, aren't we?

55:45
Keith
Yeah.

55:46
Case
So anyway, moving on to the last of the one shots that are in this before we get into the arc that fills up the back half of the. Of the volume.

55:54
Gen
Speaking of sense of culture.

55:56
Case
Yes. So we are talking about the reservations in this one. And so this one, unlike the previous issue, is Spider doing the research for a column as opposed to doing the column strictly from by himself. Although we see much more of the process of it. For example, him getting photography. They go out of their way to like highlight when he takes a picture or when he pulls source pictures from like security camps and so forth, which I think is interesting just to like build out his process as much as the, the actual content of his journalism. We also have this running gag of him trying to hit on women and them shutting him down pretty fiercely. And it gets more and more aggressive with how hard he gets shot down.

56:43
Gen
Very immediate. Yeah, well, and it's very funny too, where there's a little bit of a mini through line of this volume where Spider says that Shannon, when she first moves into to his apartment as an assistant, it's like, oh, you have a boyfriend? If you're going to be fucking in my place, please soundproof it a little bit. It's like, are you worried you're going to make too much noise? I'm on a dry spell. I don't want to hear anybody having that kind of fun. And then Shannon's boyfriend becomes a foglet and immediately couples with others. And then this is a further. Just like this is Spider's arc of that.

57:23
Case
Yeah, we get a scene where Spider is at a bar just listening to a couple of mouthy bastards who are clearly drawn to look like Derek Robertson and Warren Ellis having a weird conversation about the designer warts on the guy's son for his penis.

57:43
Keith
This book, man, it's like, oh, isn't this really sad? Designer warts on a dick. And I'm like, great. Like whiplash man.

57:53
Gen
And this is again, a world that isn't ours, but is ours, is a funhouse mirror of it. And it does lend one to think about what are the things that we just take as for granted. What are some really weird things? I could rattle off a couple of things I often Think of words. We just have no problem talking about this in this version. If we use these words or whatever else, this is perfectly fine. And it may not be warts on the shaft, but if somebody thinks that's fine or somebody's totally fine talking about it, well, we have conversations like this in a bar.

58:31
Keith
Yeah. Yep.

58:33
Case
And Spider basically just affirms his dislike of people as a general concept when. When he is forced to listen to this whole exchange. And then we go. We go into another reservation. This one. We actually see the process of what it is like to be screened to go into it. They strip him naked and, like, kill. Try to kill all the bacteria that's all over his body. Because the. The reservations are, As far as I can tell, biodomes that have specific snapshots of cultures imprinted on the people living in there. And these are volunteers who agree to exist in the world as their ancestors would have in as close an approximation as they can, which includes things that are pretty abhorrent.

59:25
Case
They have this whole conversation about how some of the cultures in there practice the cutting of the rose, which is genital mutilation for women, which is taken to be abhorrent by Spider and then by the woman explaining it is like. I'm pretty sure that I am having an even more severe reaction. But we have to allow it because that's part of the culture we're trying to preserve.

59:45
Keith
How do we feel about the use of the word reservation? This case?

59:53
Gen
I think it is appropriate and terrible because there, again, that's a bit of where the story is. Where do you fall on it? Like, let's consider the first page of it. Like, very much the first splash of the issue of the story. That is Spider Jerusalem dressed as Spider Jerusalem, engaging in a dance in an area that looks like it is not the city. He is the only white person in there. And I quote, when history looks down its weird, evolved, vestigial stump of a nose to us, it'll have a lot of very shitty things to say. But it will eventually have to admit that the reservations justify our existence. And if that's your first time reading it and you're coming into it, whether it was 1997 or 2025, that's a record scratch moment. It is effective.

01:00:45
Keith
I'll give it that. Yeah.

01:00:46
Gen
And I do think it's terrible.

01:00:48
Keith
I think I spent a good chunk of my life in Oklahoma. I lived with a lot of. With a lot of people of different native backgrounds. Were some good friends of mine. And so Native American, indigenous American people. Are. It's something that's kind of always in my mind, you know, and that's actually a minority group that isn't really talked about enough, in my opinion. But my issue is there were people in this story who were in the reservations, not voluntarily, like the ones born there and stuff like that. But this does come off as a voluntary thing. And a lot of reservations were not voluntary, I assure you. They. They were forced into it. So I think I hedged. When I was. I read reservation Affairs, I was like, I don't like word, but that's just the word.

01:01:42
Keith
I was just curious what your guys reaction to that was.

01:01:45
Gen
But yeah, I think it's meant to bring us to think of that.

01:01:49
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

01:01:51
Gen
At best it's meant to bring us to think of that. I think it's terrible.

01:01:55
Keith
But yeah, this messed up.

01:01:56
Gen
But this is again the conversation of the story.

01:01:59
Keith
Yeah.

01:02:00
Gen
Is preserving history, is preserving community as clearly as possible as purely, let's say, is that good or bad? Is applying modern sensibilities to a culture you're trying to preserve, good or bad? It becomes a thing of degrees. It becomes a matter of, yeah, the cutting of the rose sounds absolutely abysmal, horrible, abhorrent. And it becomes a thing of. I mean, the podcast that I mostly am on is a video game podcast. And talking about preservation of digital data, of emulation is already a murky enough thing. And that's just data, not people, not lives.

01:02:46
Keith
Yeah. Coming back to what you were saying about it being a. Or like the actual practice of it, not so much the word. I was just kind of hedging on the word. It. It's almost like a museum piece. Like, like, it's like. It's definitely like an educational study of culture, you know, like a sociological study. But it's also like they kind of frame it in like, oh, we'll forget about it if we don't have it active going in front of us. Like instead of a diorama at the National History Museum, we have people actually living and dying. And I thought that was that. That moment when they kind of revealed that I was like, that was when I was like, wow. Like, I was kind of a little blown away by that. I was like, Jesus. Like, yeah, so that's.

01:03:32
Gen
That some cultures fell and I just have to restart them. This is the fifth time we've done this one.

01:03:36
Keith
Yeah, that's. Oh. And it's like, we know it's going to fail and we knew those people are going to suffer and die. But don't want to forget the past. And I'm like, Jesus, like that's another. Again, we talk about the prescience and the on the nose stuff. And there is a certain narrative specifically in the southern half of our country where it's, we got to preserve the past regardless of how much it hurts other people. And ye, that was a bit much.

01:04:03
Gen
Absolutely. That is a part of the discussion. And there is, I mean, you bring up a great point. As far as, I mean, we couldn't just have a display at the museum. Are.

01:04:13
Case
Yeah, but yeah, because the states that they put, that they impose these people in have to be artificially tallied at the very least. Like whatever sort of way that they are setting people's minds to the periods in question. Like these are at minimum research situations that are being presented or being implanted after some sort of narrative is being approximated. Like this is a Westworld situation. The fact that they have real people living out these scenarios. The only scenario that I can think of that is logistically a logical one is that you are like, okay, we know that these are how things roughly should have worked. How, how did they actually problem solve and do stuff like that.

01:04:57
Case
Like to allow it as an experiment to sort of run out, to sort of see what, like what the limitations of like what our ability to sort of hypothesize runs out of juice. And you need to have like real world examples. That's the only scenario that it makes sense to me because like you said, otherwise why is this not just a museum piece? Why, why isn't this just a Westworld situation?

01:05:21
Gen
My guess on that would because people with money made technology and buy gum. Why don't we use it like this? And it just keeps going. But, but yeah, you're right. This is sort of anthropology as a sourdough starter instead of a Gunpla model.

01:05:35
Keith
Oh, that's such a good way to put it. I like that.

01:05:39
Gen
Again, I thought the reference would land.

01:05:43
Keith
No, and it's, it's, it is interesting though. It's definitely a story that grabs you and it's something you're like immediately when you have to. I review comics, you know, as that's what I do. And I usually can tell a comic is great if I have to put the comic down halfway through and think for a few minutes. And this definitely will maybe just be like, wow. Like it's staggering and there's implications. And then as we, I mean we're not quite wrapped up with the issue so in case, if you want to continue it, there's a twist to it later on about a different kind of reservation. So. Yeah.

01:06:18
Case
Yeah. So we proceed to see more of these reservations and Spider doing more coverage about it. He gets shot down additionally by a Breatharian and then by a reporter who on. On a live newsfeed, shoots him down and emphasizes, sorry, no, I'm. I'm married, not hungry, infected with seven unknown diseases, gay, pregnant with lizards and clinically dead. Sorry, no. Would have done all on its own, you know, just making sure.

01:06:45
Gen
And. And this is somebody who. What she's doing and how it all plays out feels like modern TikTok Hollywood Boulevard. Man on the street. Shit.

01:06:53
Case
Right?

01:06:53
Keith
Yep.

01:06:54
Gen
Prescience.

01:06:57
Case
This is where we get to see the Tikal Reservation, which is the one that has failed multiple times because they keep beheading people and putting it in their drinking water, which, you know.

01:07:09
Keith
Yeah, no comment. I just. Sometimes I don't. I don't know what to say.

01:07:19
Gen
Well, yeah. And maybe that is something of what is the scope and size of the reservation that they're in, of the biome that they're in? Is that if you give them infinite space or they're still going to put the heads in their drinking water, or is it because that's the best space they have to put it? And it just happens to be. Question not answered, but a question I have.

01:07:39
Case
Yeah. I have also been very curious, like how much space is allotted to them. Like, the fact that it's their drinking water indicates that they only have a small pool of water.

01:07:48
Gen
Yeah. And this is something that's right in the city. Well, how much space does it take up? It seems to be big enough that the people who, despite whatever mental processes they are put through to live in this M. Night Shyamalan Westworld of everything, do they reach a Truman show wall and go, there's a space. How big can that be? For both the reservation and for the. The city?

01:08:15
Keith
It also. This. This is the reservation that kind of opened up something in my head that I'm kind of like, that I wrestled with the rest of the issue, which is this is Mayan culture is basically they. They confirm it, essentially. This is Mayan culture. Here's the thing. We don't have great records of Mayan culture. We have some. Some records. So I'm kind of like, is this based on what we know and just. Do we fill in the blanks?

01:08:47
Case
Right. It has to be an approximation. Yeah, that's.

01:08:50
Keith
And then. So that's not an accurate representation that you know what I mean? Of the culture. And so. And because, like, I think of stuff like Viking culture for so long, they considered. They always thought that women weren't equal to men. And then they discover mass graves and they're like, oh, these are the women, These are the men. Because these had jewelry. And then they actually do the analysis. And most or half these warriors are women. Like, and we. Like, that was a misconception. Like, if we base on. Base one of these on that, on Viking culture before then it'd be completely different. So I just think that's very interesting. It's just kind of like. Yeah, yeah. Just the scientific mind to me is like, well, then this isn't accurate. Like, it's a bad data set.

01:09:34
Gen
Observing it changes the results.

01:09:36
Keith
Yeah, exactly Right.

01:09:38
Case
Which gets back to why is this not just a simulation?

01:09:41
Keith
Yeah.

01:09:41
Case
And while there are reasons why you could hypothesize needing it to be real people, which even gets weirder when we get into the fact that they can just vat grow people. And if they're going to imprint in knowledge onto them anyway, like, why even bother with volunteers and not just have like a sample group that matches exactly what you need genetically? I don't know. Anyway, moving on. We see one last reservation. And this reservation is the weird one. It's a future tech reservation. It is the farsight community. It is a reservation for a world which has no guidelines on how to use science. It's as cyberpunky as you can get in a cyberpunk world. This is where like the cyberpunk people go to be cyberpunk. Like, they say, like, they want to like, keep.

01:10:27
Gen
Keep the.

01:10:28
Case
The meat space hardwired in so that we're not going the full foglet route. And they just implant the crap out of people and then have info pollen, which is a. A potentially horrifying pollen that. That can get in your synapses and create an Alzheimer's effect, but it can also give you a news dump of the week, which made me think of the buy bombs from the previous volume.

01:10:53
Gen
I was about to say.

01:10:54
Case
Yeah, yeah. So like, clearly the. The ability to just like, beam in as much information as possible is like science that they're really interested in this. In this setting.

01:11:04
Gen
Well, I think this is kind of the. Again I wanted to put on record here, and I'm sure you talked about it last episode, the years in which Trans Metropolitan was being written and published, because there also was a great fascination with transhumanism and cyberpunk ideas. And the movement of technology. And there were so many cool stories from the 90s into the early 2000s that kind of lean on a biological version of the cyberpunk future we find ourselves in. And the cyberpunk future that we are chasing, where the idea of like Johnny Mnemonic, you know, having implants in his brain so that he could be a digital courier and everything else just put it on a USB drive or there's other ways to do it. All of the ways that there's like tracking chips and this and that we have a phone.

01:11:54
Gen
So many things that are the blaring ads and buy bombs of Trans Metropolitan is our phone is just. They made an app for it. And that both makes it differently communal and differently personal. And so this is. It's wild to see the biological cyberpunk future, look at a more biological, more cyber, more punk, more future and go, what the hell?

01:12:21
Keith
I. One of my favorite tropes about cyberpunk is how were organic and we pivot strictly mechanical and then pivot all the way back to a completely different organic. Like it's a trope in sci fi storytelling and I fucking love it. So, like, that was really great to have that. Like, oh, we use pollen because this, you know, again, if you think about our bodies are pretty efficient machines, like, if you think about it. And. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, it was really interesting.

01:12:54
Gen
Yeah. I don't want to ask Grok to simulate the Tikal civilization for me. We're going to have a better time just throwing a bunch of people in there. Is it more humane or a better idea? No, no, I certainly don't think so.

01:13:10
Keith
No. I definitely pushed back more mentally on the pollen than the idea of a robot body, for instance.

01:13:17
Gen
Yeah, fair enough.

01:13:20
Keith
Yeah, Yeah.

01:13:21
Gen
I mean, I'm allergic to pollen in general, so this is. This is a no go for me. But I'm sure by this point they'd have traded that out.

01:13:28
Keith
Yeah, of course.

01:13:29
Gen
Which is great. I can pet cats again. My other big allergy.

01:13:34
Case
I should hope so in this future.

01:13:37
Gen
I don't want this future if I can't have a cat.

01:13:41
Keith
Specifically his cat.

01:13:44
Gen
No, that's his cat.

01:13:46
Keith
I love that cat.

01:13:47
Case
Yeah. One line I want to bring up is Spider asked the guy, how's the death rate? Pretty high, actually, but we manage. I was joking.

01:13:56
Keith
Seriously. Yes.

01:13:58
Gen
And this is that the farsight community is a little bit of, you know, asking, why don't we have just VR simulations and whatnot? This is probably not the correct term. This is tech bro. Futurism writ large, but within the context.

01:14:13
Case
Of trans metropolitan and inside a contained space where they can try out and crash out every single terrible idea and just test them all to see, like, which ones actually shine through and have the cream rise to the top before bringing it out to the real world.

01:14:28
Gen
You know what? That's honestly terrifying. But I feel better than what we have right now. These can coexist at least. I feel like people are volunteering for this.

01:14:39
Case
But then the issue ends with Shannon saying that she is leaving, she's quitting, and that she's going to fuck off to a nunnery. And Spider's like, you're giving up so much. What about the sexual? And she goes, what are you talking about? It's a bride of Christ, Fred Christ. And we get an oh, no, and.

01:15:00
Gen
Conclude the issue, which also shows that despite how mighty the pen of Spider Jerusalem is, sometimes people don't stay licked.

01:15:10
Keith
Yeah. And I genuinely worry about my interest in this book if Janet is gone. Although I don't think she's gone because you already kind of hinted that she has future arcs, so that's good.

01:15:20
Gen
I. I will just say we see her again at least once.

01:15:24
Keith
Okay. I mean, I'm sure there'll be, like, other things, but yeah, I really like her.

01:15:32
Gen
So, yeah, Spider Jerusalem will have an assistant again.

01:15:36
Keith
Okay, great. Yeah.

01:15:41
Case
It's like, how much do we tease?

01:15:42
Keith
What? No, that's okay. Yeah.

01:15:44
Gen
I mean. Yeah.

01:15:46
Keith
Yeah. So that wraps it up. And then. Yeah, it was an interesting issue. Yeah.

01:15:52
Gen
And. And then we have the human interest story that is Spider Jerusalem.

01:15:56
Case
All right. And so this brings us to the last arc of the. Of the trade Freeze me with your Kiss, which is the. The. The arc that. That concludes everything here and is one of my favorite, frankly, in the series. I'm just going to say that before we get into the. At all, it. It has the right amount of kind of silliness with, like, real issues going on. It's. It's very Bugs Bunny, but. But there's. There's a beauty to all the things kind of coming together in. In ways here that we get some actual violence. We. We get a. The. The thing about the ex wife that we like, fully explained now where it's like, oh, she's. Oh, she's dead. Like a revival. And we now know about Mary, so we know, like, what the revivals are like.

01:16:44
Gen
Right. I would say this whole arc feels like an episode of the modern Harley Quinn cartoon in terms of cartoon hijinks and general fuckery.

01:16:54
Keith
100%. Yeah, I can see that. Yeah.

01:16:56
Gen
Like, I didn't think of that until you said Looney Tunes. I was like, yeah, it is. And yeah, there it is.

01:17:02
Keith
Like, if he pulled out a giant mallet, I would not be shocked. Like, I'd be like, yeah.

01:17:07
Gen
But also just, like, the weird connections and things. Or I've also seen Harley Quinn as Venture brothers with the DC universe and allowed to show more blood and say bad words.

01:17:17
Keith
Yeah.

01:17:18
Gen
Like, which, again, I think Trans Metropolitan at its zaniest falls under that kind of purview, which I think is a good thing.

01:17:27
Case
Yeah, this is definitely a Venture Brother style romp here.

01:17:30
Gen
Yes.

01:17:32
Case
So we. We start off with Spider being told that his ex wife's head has been abducted, and he doesn't really care because it's his ex wife who he hates. And that will be a running theme where everyone is like, wait, you don't care about your ex wife's head being stolen? And he's like, no, I don't. I don't give two tugs of a.

01:17:51
Gen
Dead dog's cock also a reason why I think I hear him as British. Yeah, that's a weird phrase to say with an American accent.

01:18:01
Case
Two tugs of a dead gold dog's cork.

01:18:03
Gen
Yes.

01:18:05
Case
Anyway, we get the confirmation that Shannon actually leaves to go off to the nunnery, which, yeah, is a sad moment there, but she. She being around would make this story not as effective. Also, Spider needs to be on his own and on the run.

01:18:21
Gen
Exactly. He does. He can't have a badass bodyguard. And again, I'm sad. I don't think I've ever seen anybody cosplay as leaving for Brides of Christ. Shannon and I think this is a great look for her. The bag's probably a little hard to walk around a convention with, but the rest of it's fun.

01:18:39
Keith
Right. I did like the big 80s hair, though, so.

01:18:44
Gen
That's true.

01:18:44
Keith
Big fan of that. Yeah, it's. It's. We talk about it. We talked about it multiple times. There's a tone shift, you know, like. And this definitely, like we said, took a wacky turn, but it still. It still had that grounded, like, emotional thing. I think the previous three stories set up this one, like, tonally or not tonally. Like, setting up, you know, the. The. The frozen people. You know what I mean? Like, to bring in his ex wife, which I love. That came out of nowhere. I like when they're just like, oh, your ex wife. And we don't know anything about an ex wife. And, you know, it gets dropped on Us. I know you're probably going to mention it, but my favorite part is the other supposed person from his past that shows up. Yes.

01:19:33
Keith
I thought that was the funniest thing I've read in this book so far. But yeah, go ahead.

01:19:37
Gen
And it's very funny too when the tone shifts of. I think Trans Metropolitan started finding its tone really well once Spider switched the gun that he had that was clearly the Luger style gun that for the bowel disruptor. And to then establish a little more and come back to a desperation point, not a journalism point of I'm going to cause ultra violence to suit a lot better. And there's a good desperation to it.

01:20:07
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

01:20:08
Case
Like when so Spider after a couple of phone calls and then has his door rung by a group of masked or in. In a way that appears to be faceless assassins come to the come to his door and Spider is able to jam the door, steal a gun and then is able to successfully kill the assailants with. With a. Die pigs. Die bastards dead. You hear me, you cock you.

01:20:45
Gen
This is an elegant journalist poetry.

01:20:51
Case
And it turns out when he sends the pictures over to Royce that these are. Well, first of all he tries to call the police and finds out that his insurance has been. Has been canceled. So now he is in potential trouble even though he was in self defense when he was assaulted.

01:21:12
Gen
And I do love that moment of, you know, he said I had to use deadly force in self defense. Were you inside your property when you took action? Yes. Well that's entirely constitutional, sir. Well done.

01:21:22
Case
Yep.

01:21:23
Keith
Terrifying.

01:21:25
Gen
Zooms right by haunts me.

01:21:28
Keith
Yeah. But.

01:21:29
Case
But then I want to ask for name Spider Jerusalem. Oh you.

01:21:34
Keith
Yeah. That was great.

01:21:36
Gen
And this is the thing of as Spider is set up in the first volume there is a little bit of he is a mythical figure. But there's. I find if first volume Spider was throughout the whole book, it wouldn't land the same way. I wouldn't enjoy it the same way. This arc I think also fills in some nice details and gives a little bit of weight to his sense of history. Moments like that, you know. A lot of chickens coming home to roost in this one.

01:22:07
Keith
Yeah. Yep.

01:22:09
Case
So the line goes dead and then we cut over to a police dog who I'm just gonna call it Stomp for. For nickname purposes. It's like Stompado or Stompanato.

01:22:24
Gen
Stompanato. Yeah, Stompanato.

01:22:27
Case
Who is this up police dog who complains that Jerusalem is the reason why he's missing his penis, which I believe the whole situation.

01:22:39
Gen
He.

01:22:39
Case
He tells this whole story about going to a. A strip club and messing with one of the girls. And the girl turns out to be Shannon. In the. In the story, if you. If you follow the details there. And then, and then Spider, who notoriously doesn't like dogs, castrated him. Yeah, that's the story there. And Staminato is obsessed with his dick. He describes it as being a skyscraper. He loves it so much and he's so upset about it that he has seizures every time someone says the name Spider Jerusalem to him. And then he finds out that Jerusalem is potentially a wanted man.

01:23:21
Gen
I like this bulldog broly situation of a dog that has shaved the police insignia into his forehead.

01:23:31
Keith
I realize now that this was not the character I was referring to. Actually there is a third potential person coming for Spider. Man, this arc is really everything coming back to bite Spider, isn't it? Right, yeah.

01:23:44
Gen
And this is what I mean as far as developing the city and developing Spider. When you act as Spider does, there is an immediate comeuppance after he stops the riot of the cops beating the shit out of him that he just laughs through, but is still consequences. This showcases the idea and we'll get into it further. But kind of the forgotten loose ends in moving full speed ahead and trying to solve as much as you can and change as much as you can, as Spider does, even in good faith, sometimes even for the greater good, there are consequences.

01:24:20
Keith
Yeah.

01:24:21
Gen
I mean, the dog losing his dick, that was very direct action on Spider's part. So. But still consequences.

01:24:28
Keith
Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

01:24:32
Case
So we get Spider now aware that people are coming for him because he murdered a bunch of people who. Who came for him, going to his neighbor who we don't really know and that we don't really spend time with to watch the cat. And then we cut back to Royce, who is who we pulled the wide shot where we see a headless child asking if. If Royce has found his daddy.

01:25:00
Keith
That's. That's the one. In case anyone's curious.

01:25:02
Case
Yeah.

01:25:04
Gen
The sphincter for a neck sex puppet shirt wearing tyke.

01:25:10
Keith
I was staring at it being like, how is it talking? I don't understand. Like, it's just like what's happening?

01:25:15
Gen
I. I think it's undulations and muscular tension of the.

01:25:19
Keith
The next painter straight up.

01:25:21
Gen
Just straight up. Just kind of like a fart.

01:25:24
Keith
It's so weird because there's like this whole vengeance thing going on and this is just kid hanging over the Whole thing the entire time. And I'm like, is this gonna tie in? Spoiler alert. Not really.

01:25:36
Gen
And the way that Royce, I mean, does it tie into the current thing? No. Does it tie into theme of the arc? Yes. And it's so fun. Royce I find fascinating because he is never allowed to be completely competent, in control and beleaguered, nor is he allowed to be completely irredeemable. So there is a certain amount of like, yeah, no, he and Spider deserve each other. And the amount of BS that he goes through that is completely different from the BS that Spider goes through in this arc is also a fun other side of the coin, I think.

01:26:12
Case
Yeah. Royce, I like Royce a lot as a character. Roy's two fisted editor is quite good at doing several aspects of his job and it's nice to be reminded of those in here.

01:26:27
Gen
Yeah, he is good at his job.

01:26:29
Keith
Yeah.

01:26:31
Case
Spider is surrounded by competent people. That's just one thing that we should remember. And that sort of speaks to that. Spider is himself a competent journalist. He's just an asshole.

01:26:43
Gen
Right. And that idea that there are many people that are allowed to be assholes because they get results and because they're talented. The comics industry is. There's a statement there.

01:26:58
Keith
Yes, the comics industry.

01:27:00
Gen
The comics industry.

01:27:01
Case
Yeah.

01:27:03
Gen
I'm just going to leave that there. We're into the next issue of this arc.

01:27:06
Keith
Yep.

01:27:08
Case
So Spider's walking down the street and there's some people panhandling for playing happy songs. And Spider is not into it. And so he kicks them in the crotch, but still gives the money. And then we see a flashback and this we talked about last time, which is we see what those camera glasses are supposed to look like as opposed to the weird drug version that we get from the maker with the red and green. And you can see that they do look a bit more sane having the consistent lenses, like, I don't know necessarily better, but I do. I like these. I would be tempted to buy them, especially if they actually worked.

01:27:47
Keith
Right.

01:27:47
Gen
Well, I do not want meta glasses. There's so many things about those. And this reminds me of those nowadays.

01:27:54
Case
Yeah, no, we talked about the metaglasses last time too.

01:27:56
Gen
Fair enough. Well, this also, the same page shows us what Spider Jerusalem used to look like. We saw Alan Moore, mountain man and we saw accident in the shower. The Spider Jerusalem that we know. And I think if we only ever saw flashbacks of Spider looking like that also removes a sense of history for him. So this flashback kind of giving us the Colonel Hunter gathers ass looking Spider Jerusalem. And showing how his hairline was cut around the spider tattoo and everything else. It's like, oh, yeah. No, that's. Is what the respectable journalist Spider Jerusalem used to look like. Yeah, that makes sense.

01:28:34
Keith
Yeah.

01:28:35
Gen
Again, further cementing his sense of history and place and relationship as things move forward.

01:28:43
Keith
And the key to this scene is specifically establishing his role in this previous conflict with France. And again, kind of again, establishes him as fighting for the underdog. You know what I mean? Again, that seems to be his theme. And we'll tie in later to a reveal, which I'm trying not to spoil because I loved the reveal. It was so stupid and I loved it.

01:29:10
Gen
And it's another big piece of. Well, yet again, were talking about the transients. We were talking about the Foglets. The idea of identity and self. Language is a huge part of that. And culture. Preservation of culture, the reservations. This is all of those where especially, you know, the Anglophile of it all, of English being the language for everything, England as colonizers stamping out languages in their own backyard, versus the notion of, well, why should we preserve this backwards culture? You're calling it a backwards culture. Why should we preserve this or that? Because it matters. Because people want it, because people are of it. There's a lot of.

01:29:53
Gen
As somebody who is white and raised an American, I don't have that same sort of past to connect to in a more visceral sense, but I certainly am aware of it and know of it, and it is very. And I like that aspect of identity and change is also acknowledged here.

01:30:20
Keith
I think it's. I think it is interesting that, like. Because I thought back to the reservations issue, and I'm kind of like, another.

01:30:26
Gen
Sense of language getting swashed out.

01:30:28
Keith
Yeah. What if they're like, we don't need this culture. We have a reservation for that. You know what I mean? Like, here's the French reservation. Like, yeah, I was kind of like, who? Like, oh, we want to preserve culture under controlled circumstances.

01:30:43
Gen
The bottled city of Kandor.

01:30:46
Keith
Exactly.

01:30:49
Case
Yeah. I mean, I. I think that this section brings up for me, like, whoa, how prescient this is three years before freedom fries and. And all of that, which is a true thing. But then also looking at things like Cancon or. Or other material out there, like where countries are trying to incentivize creators to produce content for their nations, because they are. They are feeling the. The crunch of just US exports of media, and that being part of that being the English language. The fact that the Internet is dominated by English is a thing that is a more modern concern that wasn't really like being talked about at this point in time in the history, but. But would go on to be 100% true.

01:31:31
Gen
And yeah, not just English America.

01:31:33
Keith
Yeah, yeah, I think I always, I'm fascinated with the role language plays in sci fi, specifically human based sci fi. Not, not so much like a Star Trek with aliens and stuff, but like for instance, Firefly Serenity. Right. You have English, you have Chinese and that's pretty much it at this point. Right. Or versus the Expanse, which is my favorite sci fi adaptation of all time, is you got English, you got a variety of languages and then you have Belter, like Belter Creole, which is like a mixture of languages forming a new language, which I really like. And it's just kind of cool to see how different sci fi properties go different directions with it. But this one, the condensing down I think is really interesting.

01:32:20
Case
So yeah, there's a point made further in the series that the world is becoming increasingly a monoculture and that trans metropolitan is set in a timeline where that's even become more so. So that like it's obviously venting about the 20th century, but. But is really showing that by way of everything has just become the same. Like it is all the same fast food joints no matter where in the world you are. And it is the same language no matter where in the world you are. And it is the same sex puppets on the, on tv no matter where in the world you are. Like, it is just regardless, it is just one culture just being like pushed down upon you.

01:33:05
Gen
And in homogenization, people will always push to find differences. If you make a dress code at a school, people will find the strangest loopholes in order to make a hierarchy. Go on. And this also speaks to why there are these siloed communities within the world of trans metropolitan. If you make a monoculture of Americanism or anglism or anything else like that, people will create a sense of identity within that and it sort of gets fractal.

01:33:38
Keith
Yeah. And also like part of me again, looking at this, again, we're talking about prescience. And obviously one of the biggest things to explain why our country is the way it is capitalism. And hey, guess who really wants there to only be one language capitalist? Because guess what? You don't have to market to different languages. You don't have to translate in things in different languages. You can put a billboard up and everybody understands it because there's only one language. And I can't not see that reading this. Like. Yeah.

01:34:11
Gen
And I also as somebody who works as a voice actor, have been very upset about the development of AI voices.

01:34:20
Keith
Oh my God. Yeah.

01:34:21
Gen
And was recently hanging out with some friends over Zoom or over Discord, watching German game shows because were amusing ourselves. And the way that it automatically put on the most glaring blaring text to speech AI voiceover translation in English I don't want this. I understand this less. I hate this. And this is something set up actually more for the reverse where English properties can go out to countries and oh, whatever weird little language you have. Oh, oh, what do you speak Chinese? What on earth is that put kind of thing.

01:34:58
Keith
You don't need that.

01:34:59
Gen
Well, I mean which dialect? Which there again there is vibrancy. But you push the monoculture because it's. It saves on overhead, less localization involved. You don't need to do as much to get that unfrozen person out into the world.

01:35:16
Keith
Yeah, it's depressing how much. And again we're getting into a political thing here, but it's depressing how much of what's wrong with our planet is because of capitalism. Just straight up point straight to capitalism.

01:35:28
Gen
And a lot of this kind of. And this is a discussion that has been going on for a while. When you have a monoculture, you run into individualism yet again. Even if you can't necessarily create a siloed culture of excellence or of specificity within the homogenized world. You have your own like, well I can do this and I did this. And to the sense of self and development of self sometimes to the benefit of a small community or to the detriment of all communities. And so there again there is a weird cutoff and isolation and it's easy to isolate and sell and the sort of people that go well that's not a problem for me. So I don't see why we need to stop having this. I if for me to have the old person yells at cloud moment.

01:36:20
Gen
I hate how much people will watch their phones without headphones now.

01:36:25
Keith
Oh my God.

01:36:26
Gen
And to set up headphones. But it is the thing of to set up headphones or to remember to bring those whatever else is mildly inconveniencing myself. And why should I mildly inconvenience myself? I don't care if I inconvenience everyone else around me. And you get into that as well.

01:36:44
Keith
Yeah, anyway, yeah, little side trip there.

01:36:52
Case
So we get some more information about the war of the verbals, which is the like we Said the. The. Over a war literally fought to. To push the American language or the English language upon. Upon France. And we see Spider acting as. As a journalist back in the day, getting out of France just in time because a lot of people apparently hate him. And there's a little tease at the end of Spider. Do you know what an infant terrible is? And we're left hanging as Stomp is investigating the crime scene. And when. When they. He gets a call from headquarters, asking about Spider Jerusalem, he has a. Another seizure. And gets pulled off the case because they're like, dude, like, you barely got away without getting kicked off the force in the incident where you lost your dick.

01:37:47
Case
You are way too close to this thing. And so I was like, fuck you and shits on the maker and leaves. And the maker says, I quit drugs for this.

01:37:58
Keith
I know. We've said Looney Tunes a couple times. The Stomp storyline is just a Looney Tunes cartoon.

01:38:03
Case
Oh, yeah.

01:38:03
Gen
Yes.

01:38:04
Keith
Like just 100%. It's not even like it's barely adapted, but adaptable away from Looney Tunes. It's just like, look at this funny animal run into all these problems basically.

01:38:15
Gen
And spends like these little vignettes not actually dealing with Spider.

01:38:20
Keith
Yeah, exactly. Yep.

01:38:22
Case
So then we cut to Spider sort of in hiding, thinking about stuff. He gets blasted with info. Pollen again, just for anyone counting how many times he's been hit with infopolin.

01:38:32
Gen
Well, I think this one's actually bacteria. See? Chattering bacteria. And where is it? Oh yeah, bacterial data. Precipitation will be illegal again in an hour or two.

01:38:43
Case
Right.

01:38:44
Gen
Which again speaks to.

01:38:46
Case
It says pollinating the mess of us with the headlines is what.

01:38:48
Gen
Fair enough.

01:38:49
Case
I assume it was pollen, but yeah.

01:38:51
Gen
Probably a bit of both. And who's to say that could just be a writing thing. But also that moment of like, oh, well, they're doing this. It's gonna be illegal again. Illegal in an hour or two. What kind of damage can be done? Why is it illegal? Why did they stop in the first place? So many questions, and I don't need them answered. I don't want them answered. I love that there are questions. It enriches the world.

01:39:13
Keith
Yep. Yeah.

01:39:14
Case
And we cut to Spider hiding inside a Porta John and trying to. Trying to both get his thoughts down and get the word out.

01:39:25
Gen
And this panel is one of my favorite little moments of just. Again, I keep saying that, like, this is people are people, folk are folk, and the future and technology doesn't change that. In the panel where it shows him in the Expel the Porta Potty warning. Writing graffiti on these walls will induce a chemical spray causing blindness. City Board of Health written right next to it in Sharpie. Fuck.

01:39:48
Keith
I. That's my favorite background joke so far. I was definitely gonna bring it up, but no one else did.

01:39:53
Gen
There's. And there's some good background jokes, but that one is just a single snapshot of human nature.

01:40:01
Keith
Yeah.

01:40:03
Gen
Love it.

01:40:05
Case
Yeah. The series loves its warning signs and that's a really good one.

01:40:09
Gen
And the sort of stories that they're telling, the sort of city that they're making, it would be full of them. Good, bad, indifferent.

01:40:15
Keith
Yeah.

01:40:15
Gen
Yeah.

01:40:16
Case
We cut back to Royce, who hears a bit of the story from the quote unquote encephaly challenged Youngin claiming to be Spider's son.

01:40:29
Gen
Where did you first hear the term cephalic or cephalogically or whatever and learn that it related to head?

01:40:37
Case
It might have been here.

01:40:40
Gen
I first heard it in the Sam and Max Hit the road point and click game. There is a cat with a giant head that is like their informant. In the very first part of the game, it was part of the demo, which I played over and over again. It's like, aw, it's a little hypercephalic kitten. And actually I had to look up what that meant.

01:40:57
Keith
I had no idea what you were going to say there. But I definitely didn't expect. Sam, fix.

01:41:03
Gen
Nerdy things. Teach us words. Because nerds try to. The writers try to find strange off the beaten path words. Yeah, education.

01:41:14
Case
Anyway, so Royce's assistant comes in. She was seen briefly in the previous volume, Indira, and she is not particularly concerned about the fate of Spider Jerusalem. She says that it's not a big deal if he's being to death by farmers in some sort of back alley. Which gives Royce pause. And then we see the. The headless child startled Indira and. Yeah. Meanwhile, Royce is. Is digging into what is going on with Spider and Spider is trying likewise to get in contact with Royce and finally succeeds at using a credit card that has not been canceled yet to be able to log into the Internet. Very capitalist in the future where it's like you always need a credit card on you to access contact with people, right?

01:42:09
Gen
Yep.

01:42:11
Case
And, and yeah. So the Spider transfers the pictures of the. The assailants. It turns out to be a bunch of crazy farmers from this story that Spider did a pretty scathing like, expose on their. Their practices of bacterial farming. It's really fucked up. When we get into that, we'll get to that in a moment.

01:42:35
Gen
Yeah.

01:42:35
Keith
That was emotionally jarring. When we get to that, like it completely again, we talk about tone. It's a tone shift. A hard tone shift. So. Yeah. Gone.

01:42:45
Case
Yeah. Meanwhile, Royce hearing the phrase crazy farmers twice in a row is actually three times in a row. Ultimately is enough for him to be like, huh? And asked to locate interior Indira. And spider is left thinking, you know what? I kind of like it in here. Cut to Indira being interrogated in what appears to be like a medieval holding cell. But it's. But it's supposed to just be an editorial room.

01:43:18
Keith
I mean, they're not dissimilar.

01:43:20
Case
Yep.

01:43:20
Gen
And yet again, I don't need answers for this one. I'm just happy this is here.

01:43:25
Case
I just noticed the skeleton behind her in one of the shots.

01:43:31
Gen
I don't know yet again, is it real? Is it fake? I don't know. I don't think I need to know.

01:43:40
Case
She claims the spider turned her into a porn star. We'll get that story in a second. Meanwhile, we see outside the porta john, There's a bunch of fully, like, head toe covered people trying to cut their way into the porta john. And that ends the first issue in this arc.

01:43:54
Gen
Sanitation workers are very serious around here.

01:44:00
Case
So this. The next issue opens with them cutting a hole into the door and pulling it off. And Spider, his head pops out. And this is a very Hunter S. Thompson kind of delivery right here, where it's like, can I not even have a good hard in peace anymore? And. Yeah, you're it. Yeah, it's just a. It's a very Hunter Thompson moment right there. Yes. And then we get Indira's story, and this one is kind of up. I mean, really up everything, like, but it. Yeah. So she claims to have been Spider's assistant back in the day and went very briefly to.

01:44:39
Case
With him to a story that turned out what they thought was a strip club was activating everyone's libidos and causing them to all to go into, like, a crazy orgy and then filming it without consent and putting it, like, piping it on the Internet as porn. And the assistant was not warned about this and ended up becoming a porn star because of the amount of sex she had. And Spider had, like, libido suppressants on. So he wasn't affected by this and.

01:45:11
Gen
Clearly knew what was coming.

01:45:12
Keith
Right? Yeah. This is fucked up. This is also the first time that, like, I'm trying to double check in my head the first time that we really see Spider wrong. Somebody that didn't have it coming in some way. You know what I mean? And I'm very curious about if this comes back around, if we get more information. I'm generally not asking for spoilers, but is this addressed later? I do want to know. No. That's a shame.

01:45:42
Gen
Well, we have seen several issues of Spider getting to where he needs to go, doing what he needs to do. And most of the time the people that he flicks off, ignores or just doesn't deal with are people in his way or rank and file. But it does show that Spider has a main character esque disregard for what isn't important. He has a laser focus for. For getting to things. This is a like textbook kind of ruthlessness.

01:46:10
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

01:46:11
Gen
Which isn't necessarily mean or good or bad, but it is ignoring all things that just get in the way of you getting to your goal.

01:46:19
Case
Right.

01:46:19
Gen
And this is the first time that kind of collateral damage is on his side or is somebody that's like, oh, yeah, no, they didn't deserve that. This also speaks to the demonization of sexuality and of, you know, Indira was trying to bring this down. Was a bit of a casualty in this and in a different sort of society. Certainly not this one. If this were to happen, it'd be like, well, let's just get rid of this, or that wasn't your fault. Or it's embarrassing, but geez, to become a pariah. Her parents never spoke to her again.

01:46:53
Keith
Yeah, right.

01:46:54
Case
Yeah. It's interesting that this is a society where it is so. Where the reaction is so extreme because we see how sexual is like a society. It is as well. Like there is like public displays and it's not taboo.

01:47:10
Gen
But there again, that is a thing of. We're just looking at it as a gestalt, as a whole thing, as a monoculture. But how the sex is presented could matter. Where we get the sex matters. I mean, that's how the adult film industry, sex and everything else is in our current society. You can't sell an adult game on itch because of payment processors. You can't. You know, people want certain things but have to go through certain hoops. This is allowed, but this isn't. If you term it like this, that's illegal. So it's not surprising, but it is jarring because it is the first time I feel that we're running into it in this world.

01:47:47
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

01:47:48
Case
And regardless, like her, she's grossly violated. Like, she's right to be upset in this whole situation.

01:47:54
Gen
Yes. At the end of the day, it is. This is. This is assault.

01:47:58
Case
Yeah. It's a horrible thing that Spider perpetrated on her. And this is the first time that we're really supposed to see him as the bad guy for this. And it's unfortunate that, yeah, we don't really have more of it come about because of this. This is just an example to file away in terms of your picture of who Spider is.

01:48:18
Gen
Right.

01:48:19
Keith
And it's another example of what I kind of talked about last episode, which is we talked about briefly earlier. Spider getting the story, but not directly intervening to assist somebody. You know, like, it's very much like, I'm going to get the story, I'm going to tell everybody about it, and that's going to make a change. But like you said, there's casualties along the way. And much like with the transients, where he's sitting up on the rooftop and, yeah, he did a great job telling the story. And the riot stopped. Meanwhile, people are getting their faces caved in. You know what I mean? And like, in this case, I bet he got a great story out of.

01:48:58
Gen
It and probably stopped and probably. And that thing of probably saved more people.

01:49:04
Keith
Yes.

01:49:04
Gen
You know, writing about the riot saved a lot of people while faces were getting kicked in. If he was doing it person by person, what would he have done? But those are faceless masses, as it were. This is seeing a face that would have been stomped in while the riot is quelled.

01:49:20
Keith
Exactly. Yeah. And also, like, going back to her being such a pariah, I read it as specifically. I don't know her. Her culture and I don't know, her parents, you know, they might be incredibly conservative. She might be coming from something like that.

01:49:35
Case
Sure.

01:49:35
Keith
I kind of read it like that, you know, because it wasn't so much that she. I guess it was more the parents not speaking with her than the culture rejecting her in my head. So that's kind of what I was leaning towards. Like, oh. And then. Yeah, that's weird. You know, maybe they instilled some values in her that. That completely violates. You know what I mean? So.

01:49:56
Gen
Right. And the agency of visibility, where that's immediately followed up with. For the past, you know, for six years, every day I've walked down the street and someone has almost stopped, stared at me with that look in their eye, the look that says, I've seen you fuck.

01:50:09
Keith
Yeah.

01:50:10
Gen
And whether that is her view on things, whether that is truth. I mean, it probably is truth all across the board there, but this speaks to perspective and lens of truth. And yet Again, violation and assault and she had no agency over that.

01:50:26
Case
Yeah, I also was like this, Indira's story specifically made me think of Mia Khalifa, the porn star who was very much fetishized when she first hit the scene. It was like this, like, ooh, look at this Arab girl kind of porn. And then since leaving the industry, has been very vocal in her disapproval of not or dissatisfaction of having participated in it. And the amount, like the amount of popularity that she still retains as a porn star when her career was only like for I think it was like six months to nine months, something like that. It was like some ridiculously short amount of time and remains like the, like a well known porn star in circles. And like there will be later conversations about like how difficult it is to get out of the notoriety you can amass from porn in the series.

01:51:25
Case
And, and this is the first time where we're really kind of spending time thinking about it where like, yeah, this is a, a mark that she has had to live with ever since or at least that she perceives that she has to like, certainly probable that like all of the examples she's giving out of people identifying her could just be in her head, but that's still like trauma that she has to go through.

01:51:47
Gen
Yes, yeah.

01:51:50
Keith
And I mean she also doesn't speak with her parents anymore. Yeah, it's very, you know, there's, there are some similarities there and I mean again we're jumping into something larger if I get too much into this, but there is a growing conversation right now amongst those involved that if a adult star, adult film star regrets this and wants their stuff taken down, do they have the right to ask for that? That's an ongoing debate right now and I've kind of been following because I think it's very interesting. There are several, like especially young women who obviously were very young when they made these decisions and again they had the ability to choose. So this isn't directly related but are saying, I'm married, I have a kid, I don't want this out there. And the Internet's forever. Right.

01:52:43
Keith
You know, so yeah, it's just relating to how it can really ruin your life and be. Again, the Internet is forever. We, we've learned that over the past, you know, 20, 30 years. And yeah, reflecting in this story for Indira. So again also with the added caveat of not consenting.

01:53:06
Case
Right? Yeah, yeah, it's, it's certainly a fucked up story that only because she is antagonist that it's not given more gravitas Yeah.

01:53:18
Keith
I literally was like, no, she's in the right here. Like I wasn't even like, oh, but you're the bad guy. I was like, no, he fucked you over. That's fucked up. Like yeah, that's why I asked if there's a follow up because I'm like maybe there's more of the story, you know what I mean? Like I was hoping there'd be something more, but I guess not. So. No.

01:53:37
Case
But speaking of people over by Spider, we cut back to Stomp who in his single minded pursuit of Spider walks into traffic because he's just a dumb and gets hit by a plurality of cars.

01:53:50
Keith
Dope, dope, dope. Like it's literally like so jarring.

01:53:55
Gen
Just like a cabin action, baby.

01:53:58
Case
Yep.

01:54:00
Keith
Meanwhile, back at the ranch.

01:54:03
Case
And so we cut over to Spider who like I said, pops his head out and it.

01:54:09
Gen
Has a bit of fun meta of I am waiting for answer where we've cut away from him asking can a man take a good hard shit in peace? And we've done several things and it cuts back to him. I'm waiting for answer.

01:54:20
Keith
Yep.

01:54:21
Case
And when these, he identifies them as these isolation like total solitude culture. Like they believe in complete zero contact with any sort of aspect of the outside world. So they wear, they're like the quarians in Mass Effect. They wear bio suits all the time and are fully masked up and they say we have your wife. And he says, after I have considered this information carefully, I've decided that I could not give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about my ex wife and that you may keep her. Goodbye. And they are very surprised at this whole situation because they assumed that the whole plan was like, yeah, you're going to come looking for your dead or for your ex wife's head obviously. And Spider does not give a about this. And they're like, no, you have to participate in our plans.

01:55:14
Gen
And I, I enjoy the bit where it's just like, you know, I didn't get that information. My phone got cut off. You cut off his access too soon. You screwed up the plan. We're throwing you out. Take his glove.

01:55:25
Case
Yes, exactly. That is exactly the voice I have for these guys.

01:55:29
Gen
Like it's still like come true. Like it's almost like a Bane version of that because they've got like the weird gas mask thing going on.

01:55:36
Keith
Yeah, yeah. I like incompetent flunkies for bad guys. It's very fun.

01:55:43
Gen
Yeah. And all of these moments of like edge lordiness and 90s craziness and cyberpunk, whatever, folk are folk and plans don't go smooth and people will throw each other under the bus and it's that like, well, we're stronger in numbers. Well, you screwed this up. Get out of here. Makes sense and very funny.

01:56:04
Keith
Yeah.

01:56:04
Case
But then we cut to a news story about the situation and we find out the. The farm that's Spider shut down or like wrote the bad write up about was farming anti. Anti cancer traits which we've established that Spider uses specifically to hold off the. Any cancer from smoking. But then we see what like how they're grown and it's on like emaciated children with like giant boils and so forth on their body. Like they're growing the cancer cells to then like have the anti cancer trait or something. Or something there. It's horrific whatever they're doing.

01:56:42
Keith
Yeah. And again, whiplash, just tonal whiplash, like can't to take a. In peace. These children are being used for. Their bodies are being abused. I'm like, oh God.

01:56:53
Gen
All of this is happening simultaneously.

01:56:55
Keith
Yep. Yeah.

01:56:56
Case
And then speaking of whiplash, we then cut back to stomp.

01:57:02
Keith
Dupa doopa doop.

01:57:04
Case
A dupe walking down the street and he walks into an alley full of cats. Cats who also apparently all can talk.

01:57:10
Gen
I mean, what animals can't talk here? Any animal in the world of trans metropolitan that has not spoken a word as far as I'm concerned, just doesn't want to.

01:57:20
Keith
Pretty much just Spider's cat basically. And it probably doesn't give a shit.

01:57:25
Gen
Exactly. Spider's cat can talk, just not to us. Yep.

01:57:29
Keith
It doesn't care.

01:57:31
Case
But, but it ends with Stomp getting threatened by the cats where it's like you say something about blood loss cop, and if you live by acab, this is just cathartic. But at the same time, if you like dogs, then you're like, this is mean.

01:57:47
Gen
So I mean look, I like people, but acap.

01:57:52
Keith
Yeah, no comment.

01:57:59
Case
So, so we cut to the, the isolationist guys, they're going to do the cement boots situation on Spider to throw him in the river and just like have him drown. And Spider talks them down by suggesting that they have no idea what Spider's capable of. He might be able to kill them just by looking at him because they are isolationists and have not been keeping up with all the crazy in society these days.

01:58:25
Gen
Which he was Dealing with last book.

01:58:28
Case
Right. Yeah. I mean, it's funny. One isolation is to another.

01:58:32
Gen
Yes, it's good fun for Hermit.

01:58:35
Keith
Yep.

01:58:36
Case
But so we get the story of Spider's ex wife, which I believe is the only time we see her in any form where it's like, so obviously set up. She, like, goes in, she announces her name several times and then leaves.

01:58:50
Gen
I do love the design of her cigarette holder that allows her to smoke at least 16 cigarettes by my count, in Derek Robertson's art. Yep. At once. The future baby.

01:59:06
Keith
Yeah.

01:59:06
Case
The Set me up.

01:59:11
Keith
Yeah. It's interesting. It's just such a weird arc. Like, just. Yeah. Setting this up again. Very. It's the character design. We talked about it with the inflation thing. Like the designs of some of these characters being in the distant future, but also looking from the 90s or the 80s is very fun. And I like that hers specifically jumps out at me.

01:59:38
Gen
I mean, all of the trends that, like, are cyclical and come back. Who's to say that sideways triangular sunglasses aren't going to be a big deal eventually?

01:59:49
Keith
Yeah.

01:59:50
Gen
And I love that this kind of thing of. Okay, we've already established that they are isolationists. They're a little bit incompetent about things. And it's just like, how could you not see what an obvious setup this is? Well, they don't have to worry about it, really. They've got a very clear shot. Well, okay. Well, she's dead and frozen. And so Spider Jerusalem's still alive, so he's got to be responsible for this. Do we need to think about this? No. Get him.

02:00:12
Keith
Right. No.

02:00:12
Case
I mean, so many of these sects are played for laughs. It's just like the transients where, like, they're supposed to be kind of pathetic for the. Because anyone who wants to be part of a group is not cool enough in this Gen X mindset.

02:00:23
Gen
Well, and there's also the thing of obsession leads to blind spots. And sometimes those blind spots can be very funny if portrayed correctly. However, Spider has his own zealotry. Whether that is. Just because it's an obsession with the truth and knowledge doesn't necessarily mean it's not zealotry.

02:00:42
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

02:00:44
Gen
And Indira shows that there are blind spots and they're not as funny.

02:00:47
Case
Oh, for sure. But then because this book is like tonal whiplash. Like crazy. Another Stomp chapter where he encounters a bunch of religious individuals who throw what appears to be holy water. But he says it burns, so it might be some kind of acid on him. And he. Yeah. Is Just getting more and more fucked up as he goes. Like, Saab can't see anything. His eyes are, like, too swollen over. He's slashed up like crazy, and apparently all of his wounds hurt. Then we come back to Spider explaining the whole. The whole setup.

02:01:27
Gen
I really enjoyed that. Stomp is his own shaggy dog story.

02:01:32
Case
Yes.

02:01:35
Keith
Yeah. Yeah. I don't have much to say. Stomp is such a weird inclusion in this arc that I just don't know. Like, it doesn't matter in the end. And I do get that. I get that. I get that the joke, but it's funny. Like, I don't know.

02:01:54
Case
It's just cartoon violence against a police officer. Like.

02:01:57
Keith
Yeah, yeah.

02:02:00
Gen
And, I mean, Warren Ellis definitely depicts violence against cops in a lot of issues, and I see nothing wrong with that. But the thing is, this shows, again, a lot of consequence. Things coming home to roost. And one of them is neatly taken care of to everyone's satisfaction. One is ignored to no one's satisfaction. One is just thrown out, you know, is just thrown away, and another jumps off a building. So Stomp just being an example of, like, the. The detritus, the consequence of everything, of Spider Jerusalem. Yeah, it is a little bit of just, like, gore and a bit of just ridiculousness, but it shows that, like, it's. It's showing a different end to it all. And one that we just kind of go, well, that was pointless and violent.

02:02:52
Keith
I suppose it's interesting because the story is basically three. I don't want to say victims, because that's not the word. It's three consequences of Spider. And you got the dog who brought it on himself. You got his wife who. We don't know what happened between them. And then we have. We have Indira, who he fucked over. So it's like. It's like the. The spectrum of his responsibility, but all three of them coming back to, you know, haunt him, which I think is really interesting.

02:03:29
Gen
And it's all varying aspects of people who refuse to back down.

02:03:34
Keith
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

02:03:37
Case
Yeah. So. So Spider proposes a solution to these guys where he just throws her head into the river. And it's like, well, I'm not really next to Ken, so I would just destroy the. Destroy the body.

02:03:51
Keith
And.

02:03:52
Case
And we're all good. This.

02:03:53
Gen
And this is the last piece of evidence of the person who. Who screwed you over. Right? Cool off it goes.

02:03:59
Keith
Yep. Right.

02:04:02
Case
And we get a gag with Stomp jumping off a ledge. And I guess he crushes, like, he. He crunches down, I guess, against something. I. I guess he Hits the ground and then the head hits the water based on the way they describe the sound effects. But we don't actually see how it plays out for better. I. I would say. And the. The. The isolationist guys are like, we like your column, by the way, and. And head off satisfied with this whole situation. So this whole comedy of errors is. Spider is victorious over. He emerges into Royce's office only to see what is revealed to be the infant terrible who leaps at Spider, saying, miss, we meet again, Monsieur Jerusalem.

02:04:55
Keith
It's the stupidest gag, and I love it so much.

02:04:57
Case
Like, Spider immediately chucks him out the window where he blows up. And Roy says, all right, let me say now that we. With your history of drug abuse, it was conceivable that you could produce a child with no head.

02:05:08
Keith
Just three issues building up this character, and it's the dumbest gag. I love it. I will point out. Going back to the previous scene, though, I will point this out. The dog goes over first.

02:05:21
Case
Yes.

02:05:21
Keith
And then the head. I read that as he threw the head and because the whole thing has been like, everything wacky is happening to this dog. I assume the head hit him in the water. I thought that's what that first sound was.

02:05:35
Case
Oh, no. I think he just, like, hits the ground and goes, crunch.

02:05:39
Keith
Oh, okay.

02:05:40
Gen
But there's also the fact that this noise happened and this bastion of the truth and ferreting it out, doesn't check, doesn't care. Gets what he wants, gets to the solution and doesn't see what happens otherwise.

02:05:52
Keith
Yeah. Yep.

02:05:54
Case
So Royce asks if Spider remembers Indira and he does not, and then asks if he remembers who he took with him. To the.

02:06:04
Gen
To that story.

02:06:05
Case
Yeah, to the. Yeah, the orgy place. And Spider says, no idea. Some. Some student, she went nuts. Never saw her again.

02:06:13
Keith
The fact he doesn't remember her is the worst part. Like, if you fuck someone over that bad, fucking remember who they are, at least. Jesus. Well, he probably does. He probably is just plain cool.

02:06:26
Gen
Could be. Or it could be he saw the immediate consequence and went, that sucks.

02:06:31
Keith
Yeah, exactly.

02:06:33
Gen
And doesn't realize how much it affected Indira.

02:06:36
Keith
Yeah. Again, this is where I want another. I want to. I want to follow up to this. I want to know what's going on. I want some more information. But I guess we don't get it, so.

02:06:46
Gen
I mean, you could just as easily get other people he screwed over similarly and see the tapestry of it all.

02:06:51
Keith
Yeah, true.

02:06:52
Case
Yeah.

02:06:53
Gen
And we'll.

02:06:53
Case
We'll find out more, but. But for now, that was lust for life. Which we haven't even called out, is an Iggy Pop song and is like the. The trademark song of. Of train spotting. Yeah. So, yeah, no surprise there. Very similar sensibility going there. Ewan McGregor would probably make a pretty good Spider, by the way.

02:07:19
Gen
Also true.

02:07:20
Case
Also pretending to be American. Yeah.

02:07:22
Keith
Yeah, I could see that.

02:07:25
Case
Especially. Especially train spotting era Ewan McGregor.

02:07:28
Keith
Oh, yeah. 100%.

02:07:29
Case
With that, like, emaciated kind of look.

02:07:31
Gen
Yeah. I think nowadays it'd be very funny to watch him play Royce. He's not nearly like as big as Royce is, but, like, you know, you consider just movie ways that people are, you know, slimmed down or anything like that and just that beleaguered. Little bit of a reference to the time period.

02:07:46
Keith
Yeah.

02:07:47
Case
Although honestly, I can still. I could see him still playing Spider now.

02:07:52
Gen
That's true.

02:07:53
Case
Not the point. The point is, Jeff, thank you for coming on and talking about volume two with us.

02:07:58
Gen
Thank you so much for having me.

02:07:59
Case
How are you feeling? Having Depth dived into two volumes of TransMet for this.

02:08:08
Gen
I'm going to continue reading through the series because I got to see this through and some questions have been raised and I got to answer some of them for myself. Once again, it's been a while. It was a lot of fun kind of coming back to this after years and years of it and really nice to have an excuse to deep dive into a story like this. So thank you, Keith. Thank you, Case, for having me on and letting me chat about this with y'.

02:08:35
Case
All. Awesome. If people enjoyed listening to you talk, where can people find you and follow you?

02:08:41
Gen
Well, I am part of the certain POV network. I am one half of Fun and Games podcast which you can find here. Also funandgamespod.com fun and games plot across social media that we're on a conversation and interview podcast with an optimistic view of video games with the idea that every game is somebody's favorite. A focus on indies and the stories and people behind it all, culture of it. And I am also a voice actor who pops up in things here and there. You can find me across social media @geoff makesnoise. G E O F F makes noise. And you can also. I have a website, jeffmon.com a little bit of stuff that I do there as well.

02:09:21
Case
Awesome. Awesome. Everyone should totally check out the Fun and games feed. It's such a great time and all the things that you've got going on. Just wonderful to chat with and wonderful to do projects together with. So it's been great being able to Bring you into this one as well. Keith, this is volume two for you. How are you feeling?

02:09:42
Keith
Better. I was genuinely worried it was just going to be chaos for 10 volumes. I'm not kidding.

02:09:48
Gen
It's not Garth Ennis.

02:09:50
Keith
Yeah. Yeah. Anyways, I really liked it. Like I said, I. The Mary story was such a great story or such a great tale. And I again, I. It's going to be hard to beat that in this setting for me. But I am very curious to see where we go. I know I'm eagerly anticipating because I know it gets very political. That's what I'll say. Yeah. But I liked it. I really liked it. And yeah, I like spider a little bit more, which is good.

02:10:28
Case
Cool. Cool. Now, where can people find you and follow you?

02:10:32
Keith
So I host Comic Book Review podcast. We have issues. You can find us on Bluesky at We have issues Bsky Social. You can find me at Keith has issues Bsky Social. We're also now on Instagram, which I'm really trying to use more because too much of Comic Book World is on Instagram. So that's we have issues pod because someone else took my name. But yeah, make sure to check those out. Blue sky is the best place to follow me because every time there's a new episode I put a post. I have timestamps for each publisher. I have a complete list of every issue I review, a link directly to the episode. So it's really the best place to find it.

02:11:12
Keith
And yeah, other than that, I mostly just hang out on our Discord, which I'm sure Case is going to talk about in just a moment.

02:11:18
Case
Yeah, because the Discord is a really good place to find all three of us actually. It's a wonderful time. You can find a link to our Discord in the show notes or at our website certainpov.com where you can find all kinds of cool projects that all of us here are involved in. And it's just a wonderful place to find cool podcasts. The podcast in particular I'm going to shout out on this one is Trade School, which is my baby, where we are collecting the stories of why people love specific comic book trade paperbacks. And so anyone can submit just five to 15 minutes of why you love a trade paperback. And everyone should check out the series because it is just all this positivity about. About comic books and about. About why people care about. About the.

02:12:06
Case
The comic stories that have lingered with them. So, so check out Trade School. And if you think that it's a cool show and you want to talk about a trade paperback, let me know. You can find me@case.aikenmail.com or you can find me on most social media platforms at Case Aiken, with the exception of Instagram, where I'm holding on for dear life to my AIM screen name from high school, which is Quetzalcoatl5q u e t Z A L C o A T L 5 because as evidenced by the fact that I was obsessed with Trans Metropolitan, I was pretentious in high school.

02:12:39
Gen
You know, I have a hard enough time spelling Jeff with a G for people like power to you.

02:12:44
Case
Yes. So on that note, if you have enjoyed this, please do all the YouTube stuff or, or do the other stuff, depending on where you're watching this. We're, we're observing this, like subscribe, leave reviews. That would be, all of these would be really helpful. Get the word out because this is a really cool project that we are doing. We are covering the entire series and I guess we can announce this now because we've got it locked in. We are doing an 11th episode talking with one of the creators of the show, Derek Robertson. We will be doing a wrap up of the whole series with him. So that is really big news. We're very excited about that. So cool. And so, yeah, so tune in next time we'll be talking about volume three in Trans Metropolitan.

02:13:28
Case
But until then, this has been the Word from tomorrow. Have a great week. Cpov certainpov.com.