Transmetropolitan Vol. 10: One More Time - with Derek Van Dyke
The Word From Tomorrow wraps up its issue-by-issue journey through Transmetropolitan with the explosive final volume. Case and Keith are joined by Derek Van Dyke (Castle Bravo, Pixel Spectrum) to unpack the series' powerful conclusion, discussing Spider Jerusalem's last stand, the comic's enduring political relevance, and whether Warren Ellis and Darick Robertson stuck the landing.
SUBSCRIBE: Apple Podcasts • Spotify • iHeartRADIO • RSS
Support us on Patreon! https://patreon.com/CertainPOVMedia
Edited by Seth Decker
Scored by Bret Eagleston
Certain Point Of View is a podcast network brining you all sorts of nerdy goodness! From Star Wars role playing, to Disney day dreaming, to video game love, we've got the show for you! Learn more on our website: https://www.certainpov.com
Join us on Discord: https://discord.gg/wcHHer4
FOLLOW US: ▶ Instagram: @certainpovmedia
⏱️ YouTube Chapters
00:00 – Intro & Meeting Derek Van Dyke
02:12 – Derek's History with Transmetropolitan
06:18 – Series Recap: Nine Volumes to the Endgame
08:43 – Martial Law and an Uncomfortably Relevant Future
23:45 – Headlong: The Final Battle Begins
44:42 – The Smiler's Last Stand (approx. start of the second major issue discussion)
01:10:40 – The Cure, Part Three: Bringing Down the President
01:34:35 – The Ending of Transmetropolitan
01:48:54 – Final Thoughts on the Series
02:02:19 – Derek Van Dyke's Projects (Castle Bravo & Pixel Spectrum)
02:04:02 – Where to Find Keith
02:04:34 – Where to Find Case & Support Certain POV
02:06:37 – Next Time: Darick Robertson Joins the Show
02:07:02 – Outro
Transcription
00:00
Keith
Foreign.
00:08
Case
Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Word From Tomorrow podcast. I'm Case Aiken and as always, I'm joined by my co host, Keith Letten.
00:15
Keith
Hello, everybody.
00:17
Case
We are doing it one more time, right?
00:19
Keith
It's one more time. One final time.
00:22
Case
Yep. I mean, not one final time for us, because we do. We're gonna do a wrap up for the series with Derek Robertson, which we're very excited about, but we're also really excited to dig into the final chapter in the Transmetropolitan epic, as it were. And so to have that conversation, we are joined by a different Derek. We are joined by Derek Van Dyke.
00:48
Derek
Hi. How's it going, everybody?
00:50
Case
It is going well. Derek, I am so excited to have you on for this one.
00:54
Derek
Yeah, look, always good to collab with the certain POV folks, you know. Always good to collab with you, especially Case. We, you know, we. We kill it. And man, what, you know, the idea of going back to Trans Metropolitan right now of all times. I. I kind of knew you were cooking a little bit, and then I started my reread and it was like, oh, yeah, this feels good. This. This feels good to read right now. So I've been. I was telling you, I've been practically vibrating since I actually read this final volume over the weekend to prepare for this, because I reread from the beginning again, so. But held that last volume off because I wanted to be fresh. I wanted my powder dry when I came in.
01:37
Keith
So. Wow. Yeah.
01:40
Case
Yeah, well. And so listeners should know that when. When we first started putting this together and I reached out to you because there was sort of like an element of. I was like, there are certain people that I figure probably went through a transmet phase.
01:59
Derek
You called that one.
02:00
Case
Yeah, I guessed that. And so you immediately jumped on volume 10, and I was like, yeah, all right, cool. Yeah, yeah.
02:08
Derek
Gotta come in for the big finale. Absolutely.
02:12
Case
So this gets into the question that we ask all of our guests, which is, what is your experience with Transmetric?
02:18
Derek
So, actually, my experience with Trans Metropolitan, I read probably far too young to be honest. No, definitely far too young to be honest with you. Would have been late middle school. So the series had been complete for a little while. If I remember correctly, it was one that actually my dad recommended to me. My dad is a huge comic book geek and also a huge Hunter S. Thompson fan. Like, I. And I also, like, I grew up reading a lot of, you know, like, Hunter S. Thompson, Kurt Vonnegut, like the weirdos of American literature. Right. Of modern American writing. So it only seemed natural.
03:02
Derek
But I gotta admit, I, you know, at that age and with probably a shallower understanding of, like, Thompson's impact on, like, journalism, pop culture, his own sort of self mythology, you know, beyond, like, this is a weirdo that my dad really likes, I don't think I really. It really all sunk in. So I haven't reread since that. The mid 2000s, so it's been quite a while. So it was. It was definitely very, like. I hadn't thought about Trans Metropolitan in a long time until you brought it up. And I immediately saw Spider Jerusalem's grinning face poking out of the darkness. And it was like, oh, yeah, this will be a fun one to go back to.
03:49
Derek
And I definitely think I found kind of a new appreciation, both as just somebody who's older, a little more, well read, a little more politically savvy, a little bit more familiar with, like, Hunter S. Thompson and Warren Ellis and Ellis's particular stylings, knowing how to kind of translate that hyper reality. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a good time.
04:16
Case
Yeah. So we normally at the end of these episodes ask, like, are you going to continue on with the series? And for you, like, you're coming in where, like, there's no option, like, for you to. You either read, you did the homework, or you did the Cliff Notes version, but either way, you ended up at the finale.
04:34
Derek
I guess I could do a buttload of drugs and just dream up a few more chapters that would be very in tone with the series, but that's not really my. My bag. So none of the hard stuff. No,.
04:50
Case
Unfortunately or fortunately, because, like, there is the element. And we'll talk about it when we get to the end of this. Like, is it, like, how effective is this as a complete story? And I. I would argue that, like, while we could do a few more one shots, like, the. The.
05:07
Keith
We.
05:08
Case
I mean, we certainly come to a conclusion here.
05:10
Derek
Yeah.
05:10
Keith
Yeah.
05:11
Derek
Inclined to agree. This. This feels wrapped up. I got to admit. I don't know necessarily how much of the entirety of Trans Metropolitan was outlined before it started. You know, I don't know how much of this was. Was kind of made up as it went. I mean, it's 60 issues, so it's not inconceivable that we had, you know, Ellis had an end goal in mind, but. But, I mean, it. It feels like we hit the target and this is your close. The book. We're good.
05:38
Case
Yeah. I. I think that there. There's certainly an element of when. When you're on A, a book like this, of making adjustments on the fly to sort of cater to like what is appealing to you as a writer as you go, even if you do have like the whole thing sort of mapped out. As we get into it, I think that you can see the spots where he's clearly writing it as he goes here, versus the spots where I do think that he had a bigger plan in mind. But why don't we get into our conversation about the final volume by way.
06:15
Keith
Of.
06:18
Case
Sort of doing one last recap to explain where we are in the story. So Keith, why don't you tell the listeners at home what's been going on in the first nine volumes of Trans Metropolitan.
06:31
Keith
Yeah, I'll quickly sum up nine volumes of. Volumes of a comic. I am so excited because for the first time I know everything, you know, so I'm very excited about that. So here we go. We're in a dystopian future, or not dystopian cyberpunk future, if you will. And rogue journalist, cyber Spider Jerusalem, rebelling against the man, no matter who he is, finds himself basically against an evil the likes of which he's never encountered before. Our current president, the Smiler, who he inadvertently helped get into office, kind of combined with his filthy assistance, they are trying their best to use journalism and cartoonish violence to bring the man down.
07:14
Keith
When we last checked in with them, Spider and his associates rebounded after, you know, quite a big fall from grace and yeah, took a shot at the President, took a final shot at the president to try to bring him down with a, with controversy that they were able to confirm, leading to a pretty serious cliffhanger I guess I would say at the end of the last volume where the Smiler's smile finally fell. And now we are in the end game.
07:47
Case
So pretty apt estimation of everything that we've been through so far. Yeah, so we like, we're at the point now where like Spider has made his big play and now we're seeing the Smilers rebuttal and can Spider weather the storm? And, and so we're gonna open up with part one of headlong continuing the three act structure or the three issue structure that we see throughout this book where, where arcs of three and then with like one shots or smaller arcs after that. So yeah, so let's open the book with a, a, a, a masked goon, holding a gun, facing the camera, with flames illuminating him behind him, you know, visuals that are very apt for the conversation Today.
08:43
Derek
Yeah, definitely. This. This first, you know, three issue kind of arc. I mean, being at the point that we're at where we've got, you know, masked ICE agents, you know, causing mayhem, to put it lightly, in Minnesota, you knowing people who are caught up in that chaos, the fear of how that may or may not spread, you know, to our own home cities. Yeah. I mean, this. This section of the city beginning to be placed under martial law definitely hits very different.
09:21
Keith
We've been trying to shout out covers, too. And this is a Gene Ha cover, which is amazing. Gene Ha. Roles.
09:26
Derek
Oh, yeah.
09:27
Case
Oh, yeah. Good, good. Go on that one.
09:29
Keith
Yeah, we open on that. And literally it's kind of interesting because this might be. This might be the first volume that I can think of that takes up immediate. The other one ends. You know what I mean? Like, we're literally right in it.
09:41
Derek
So definitely very uncommon for this series.
09:44
Keith
Yeah, yeah. There's a bunch of time skips in the series, so.
09:47
Case
Yeah, yeah. I was trying to look up the. The name of the other guy from the hole because I just can't remember him.
09:54
Keith
The one that just disappeared into nothingness. And I pointed it out.
09:57
Case
Yeah, we're.
09:59
Derek
Seriously, I can't.
10:01
Case
He doesn't even show up on the Wikipedia page.
10:03
Keith
And it's funny because they gave him, like, a badass moment and everything of him being like, let's do this together, and then he just disappears from.
10:09
Case
Right, yeah, just complete. Completely. Doesn't matter.
10:14
Derek
I can't remember the last thing that he did before he disappeared.
10:17
Keith
He had second K. Oh, yeah, that's right.
10:19
Case
Yeah. Because she got really horny about the readership numbers for the whole.
10:23
Derek
Right, that's right. Yes. And then never. Never shows up again.
10:26
Case
Never shows up again. Yeah, because they realize that, like, it's an irrelevant duplicate character.
10:31
Keith
It's John. John Necroma. I found a Wikipedia. Sorry.
10:36
Case
Yeah. Anyway, so, yes, so the. This is one of those spots where, like, there. There's a little bit of funkiness in terms of Ellis had the whole bit where Spider is like. Like, there we are in a state of martial law because of the nature of the reclamation zone, and now we're panicking about martial law being imposed upon them. And it's just one of those spots where I feel like Ellis was sort of like, talking it out in the actual text of the book and then sort of had to, like, backtrack to be like, oh, but here's. Here's the dramatic scene that I actually want to do of it, which Is part of that whole. Is Ellis, like, sort of winging it as he goes versus, like, does he have a thesis?
11:18
Case
He definitely has a thesis, but I think he's, like, figuring out, like, some of the details.
11:22
Derek
It felt like the drama of the moment for. For Spider and Channel and Yelena of the weight of, like, oh, shit, this is for real Martial law. Martial law came at a delay when it kind of felt like, yeah, like, I recognize that meaningfully, this is a bit of an escalation, but this is the reaction that we should have been having several issues ago. This is an issue. You know, the level of reaction I felt like we should have been having. But you're right. Like, it's kind of like they needed to set up the reclamation zone. They needed to set up, but they needed. They needed the big oh, shit moment to be the. The way you kick off the finale. It couldn't happen earlier.
12:05
Derek
And it's slightly awkward in terms of placement, but, you know, I mean, it does communicate that, like, this is it. All the cards are on the table. We are. We are hitting that last stretch, and there's not going to be. We've had a lot of times where spiders come kind of toe toe with the Smiler, and. And they've kind of exchanged insults and. And kind of played each other a little bit. But this is the. Like, we're not backing out this time. We're not just gonna walk away with, you know, yeah, I'll be seeing you later, kind of, you know, tense words,.
12:45
Keith
And it's, you know. And again, it's. It's placed now because they were so focused on getting the story out, even though this whole threat of martial law was circling them, because that's what they do, right? They get the story out. Well, the story's out now. Now they just got to survive. And they look around, go, oh, shit, what did we do? Right? We knew. Yeah. And it also, of course, storytelling wise, sets the stakes for the final arc. You know, it's saying, like, this is our problem now. Like, the story's out there. Like, there's more stories to come, obviously, but, like, now it's survival. Now it's living long enough to see him fall, basically.
13:20
Case
Yeah. And I love how we convey some of the. The danger of the President by way of the, like, the news feed that's going on and how, like, we just get to a point where he just stops and goes completely dead silent for multiple panels and then goes, and now sports.
13:40
Keith
There's.
13:40
Derek
There's not a lot scarier than watching a sociopathic politician whose entire shtick is, like, the facade. To watch the facade just kind of break and realize that it's been discarded because it's just not needed anymore. You know, it's. It's. It is once again, like, a sign of, like, we. We have crossed the Rubicon.
14:08
Case
Yeah. And so we get Spider sort of unraveling that detail, you know, explaining to. To. To his assistance, to. To k. To. To Liesl, like. Like, what the situation is and getting increasingly heated about it all, when finally, after a few attempts to sort of say this, Liesl is like, I don't want to go anywhere with you. And she says that, like, oh, you. Like, you didn't care about me after you got your story. Like, you didn't have to treat me like a hooker.
14:44
Derek
That's a line. That's a good line. Because, like, you understand obviously where Spider's coming from that, like, the stakes are here. Yes. The purpose of talking to Liesl was to get the story, but at the same time, like, from that one very small, individual perspective, she's got used again, you know, and put in danger, you know, from her perspective over something that doesn't matter to her. I love that line. You didn't have to treat me like a hooker.
15:13
Case
Yeah.
15:13
Keith
Yeah. Gut punch made me. I mean, I really liked her, but, I mean, the. The. It sounds. The jaded part of me is like, the story doesn't need her anymore. You know what I mean? Like, and so as a Spider, I.
15:29
Derek
Mean, I don't think that he's. Without sympathy.
15:32
Keith
No, not at all.
15:33
Derek
But very much. It's kind of like, all right. And I mean, Shannon. Right. Basically giving her directions. It's like, yeah, she can be a distraction. That's all that she's worth at this point. You know, if we want to get out of here, it's us or her, maybe.
15:48
Keith
Yeah.
15:48
Case
Because it's not even Spider who is okay with it. Like, he's surprised when Shannon's like, let her go. Like. Like, he. He's trying to explain. Like, no, if you go, you'll die.
15:59
Derek
Yeah.
15:59
Case
And. And it's Shannon being the heartless one because she's doing the. The pragmatist job there.
16:06
Keith
Like, she's the bodyguard.
16:07
Derek
Right.
16:08
Case
And kicking into high gear now. I mean, does it suck that we see, like, how bad it goes for. For Liesel? Yeah. Like, we're in the end game. Like, there's. There. There's going to be some casualties in this whole situation.
16:21
Keith
Yeah.
16:22
Derek
Establish the stakes. Right. Like, decent people are going to die, you know, from this. I mean, we've been seeing that somewhat through the entire series, but this feels very personal. This feels. I mean, you get to see Spider, like, react kind of to her getting hit. Although I can't really tell how much of it is a reaction. How much of it is, like, the timing of one of his episodes coming on immediately after that happens?
16:50
Case
Yeah. I mean, like. Yeah. Is it him? Is it supposed to thematically resonate or. Or is it just a coincidence? Like, it's hard to say. I. I mean, I think that Ellis is trying to show the. The damage in conjunction with it. Yeah. I don't know. Keith, you were about to say something.
17:10
Keith
No, I was just kind of like, agreeing, like. Yeah. I don't know if it's like a. A coincidence or it could be the triggering of it, you know, that caused him, you know, what happened to actually, like, maybe trigger the brain. You know, trauma can cause that to worsen, is what I was kind of thinking of. I will say that, like you said, there are going to be losses in the climax of a story like this. So you're right. You know, not everybody's going to make it out. And we'll talk about it later. I like Liesel, but there's another character I was more worried about later. And I'm glad that of the two of them, this is the one that we, you know, lost.
17:47
Case
So Spider has an episode as they. As they tried to go, as we referenced. He has a nosebleed. He seems to become comatose in the front seat while Shannon tries to drive away with. With K And Yolanda in the back seat. As they're going, we see that Liesel gets picked up and they. They start. Or like the cops or whomever start kicking the. Out of her. Meanwhile, a. A car come. Is in pursuit of. Of Spider and. And the crew. And Shannon has to do some. Some aggressive driving to sort of avoid the whole situation. One car pulls up alongside and Spider says, I bought two guns one day. And this is another spot where I'm like, I don't like the. The. It feels like we are placing weird emphasis on scenes because we saw Spider buy two guns.
18:42
Case
We saw him also throw away two guns. And when, like, him buying more guns is not weird, but the. The fact that he phrases it this way makes it seem like the one time that we saw him buy a gun because we talked about how. Then when he shot the guy in front of Yelena, and Yelena, like, freaks out about it, where it's like, no but he's already killed people in front of you with guns. Like, this is not news.
19:06
Derek
It also doesn't totally fix. Like, the guys in the car aren't, like, it's okay he doesn't have a gun because he's only bought guns twice and thrown them both away. Like, Right. It's a line that doesn't really work for anybody but the audience. And only if the audience was really paying attention to that. Not super, like, called upon detail, you know, the timing's very Bugs Bunny, right?
19:35
Keith
Like, I love you quoting Bugs Bunny or bringing up Bugs Bunny. Yeah, we've been saying that the entire run.
19:42
Derek
I mean, a little bit. Spider Jerusalem operates on, like, plot armor, Bugs Bunny logic a little bit. Right. And, like, the sooner you accept that, the better that, like, things work the way that they work.
19:57
Keith
Because.
20:00
Derek
Spider is the protagonist and he does get to be the biggest piece of shit at the moments where it's needed. So, like, yes, he gets to be comatose in the seat, and then the driver gets to look at him and then he gets to give the grin and, you know, oh, shit, it back go down.
20:18
Keith
And.
20:18
Derek
Yeah, it sure does, because that's what the timing demands. That's definitely a thing that took me some getting used to rereading Trans Metropolitan. Was that, like, man, I mean, this is a wackadoo series in general, but Spider really just kind of gets. Gets the whim of, like, what is the timing say, for this moment? And it is like, it's a twisted, coked up version of the Roger Rabbit. I'm gonna switch cartoon bunnies of the Roger Rabbit. Like, I can only do it because it's funny, right? Like, he can only come out of the coma and shoot the dude when it's the perfect moment.
20:55
Case
Yeah. We've talked about, like, some of the violence being cartoonish in a way where, like, the. The scene where Spider gives a body count for, like, how many people he's killed and he's like, claims it's all in self defense. It's like, well, those are definitely not the times where he's like, just blown up a bar or anything like that. Right. Like.
21:11
Keith
Like the first issue.
21:12
Case
Right, Exactly. We're definitely not counting, like, the. The times where we've seen things that are definitely, like, fatal actions that he's done, but. But they were funny. It's only the times where it's serious that they count for the purposes of, like, the actual story.
21:27
Derek
Well, and we talk about the Looney Tunes timing of, you know, him waking up from a coma at that exact moment. But, like, I. I feel like that. Well, it's not an. I feel like that energy is clearly intentional because as soon as he shoots up the guys in the other car, they. They crash into the Satan's army recruitment center, and the, like, poor guy at the reception desk is like, oh, shit, or whatever before he gets hit. And then they crash into the statue of Satan, and then the. The head falls and crushes the car like it's.
22:00
Keith
It's.
22:01
Derek
It's so Looney Tunes.
22:03
Keith
Yep. I will point out that guy has a tag that says Teresa. Just saying. Really?
22:09
Case
Yeah, yeah. It's like an evil nun.
22:13
Keith
Teresa is very funny of all the names.
22:15
Case
Yeah, yeah. And then it cuts to what rude people. Yes. So definitely a. A cartoonish bit of violence right there. And then we. We cut back, and this is actually a good spot here where Spider's brain damage is useful for us getting exposition, where it's like, okay, so what. Where are we going? It's like, oh, yeah, Yelena's dad's house. Okay, great, cool.
22:38
Derek
And then. And then also kind of like ending off the issue with the whole, like, all right, this time it's time to hit send on the file. You know, I've got limited time. I'm bad with words. It's now or never. Let's get this put together. Great. Great cliffhanger point for the issue. I imagine if you're reading this on, like, on an issue by issue basis, this is an evil place to leave off before waiting for next month's issue.
23:05
Case
This was a wild time because at this point, I was. I was reading this issue by issue, and yeah, I mean, like, the previous arc barely ends before going into this one. You know, it's so. It's such a. A serialized story at this point. But. But yeah, it was intense just getting to each one and being like, okay, where. Where's the next one? Give me that hit. But yeah, so Spider directs K to release a file onto. Onto the hole, which we get a little bit of a tip off that the passphrase to activate it is I was cloned. Which is, of course, a reference to the.
23:45
Keith
The.
23:46
Case
The telepresence system that they used for him to actually let go and. And interview Callahan's wife. But that. That. That's what we find out next time, as we move on to the next issue. And yeah, we've got. We've got another Gene Ha cover. It's a.
24:02
Keith
A.
24:03
Case
This one. There's less going on in the sense that, like, okay, We've got like, a cool shot of his, like, sunglasses reflecting, like, interesting signage, but it's a close up of his face, so it's a nice cover.
24:15
Derek
But I mean, I like the framing with the glasses and the reflection.
24:18
Case
I like. I think. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it looks cool. Yeah. We open the next issue also with. With armed guards pointing at the camera. And this. We get a repeated shots of just soldiers marching through a city,.
24:33
Keith
Just.
24:34
Case
And the citizenry being like, yo, the reclamation zones over there. But they're. They're going everywhere they need to. And man, man, talk about stuff that just feels exactly like the news today.
24:50
Derek
Yeah.
24:51
Keith
Yeah.
24:51
Derek
You know what's weird? The. The comic panel of the. The big, like the. It's like, you know, the carrier or whatever it is going down the street weirdly. That's the thing that I think hit me the mostly because it, you know, so I'm. I'm from and live in Louisville, Kentucky, and I worked downtown at the local news station when the Breonna Taylor protests were going on, like, two blocks from my workplace. So I was there through all of it and, you know, going in and out past, like, National Guard, you know, Humvees and shit. And for some reason, the carrier like that, that. It's obviously a little different from like a National Guard Humvee. But, like, that thing on the street was the thing that kind of was like the flashback to that. It was very like, oof.
25:42
Derek
Yeah, let's shake that little bit of, like, baby PTSD off, huh?
25:47
Case
Yeah. It certainly speaks to, like, the militarized police that we are seeing these days. Like, those kind of vehicles being deployed on American streets is so creepy.
25:57
Derek
Yes, yes. And I mean, every time this happens, I mean, it's. It's unwarranted again. It was unwarranted in all of the Black Lives matter protests in 2020. It was unwarranted. It's obviously unwarranted now. None of this ice worth a. You know, and I think I like that the punks, you know, in the comic, you know, kind of smack talking a little bit. Feels very pointed.
26:27
Keith
Yeah, it was great. Yeah.
26:29
Case
And hopefully the guys that they were smack talking didn't. Didn't respond with. With violence, but we know all too well that might have actually been the Case.
26:41
Derek
Yeah. I guess we don't get to see, so.
26:43
Keith
Right.
26:44
Case
Yeah. We cut back to Spider and crew arriving at Yolanda's house. K is surprised at how opulent the Rossini estate is.
26:54
Derek
It's a nice house. It's a surprisingly mundane gate for that. Nice of a house.
27:02
Case
Yes. Well, who knows? There could be lasers. So Kay finally gets the file. File sent out, and they. They come out of the car and we get Yelena's dad again with different facial hair. Every single time we see him, he's got different facial hair. It's just a thing about the book, but he's. He's saying martial law, for God's sake. And this is again, me just noting that, like, they were talking about this, all of them together, like, three issues ago. Yeah.
27:41
Derek
And knew that the Reclamation Zone, like, it was. It was a. Like an asterisk on that. That that was just a technicality and that a snap of fingers, it would expand.
27:52
Case
Yeah. So, but like I said, I think that it's just. They are. Are forced into a spot where it's like, well, we need. These are the dramatic bees. We need to focus on that right now. So the gang all goes inside, spider picks up the cat, and the cat scratch a spider in the face. And that surprises him. I don't really have a good theory for why the cat does this. Besides, that spider is just starting to lose it. And this is a downer moment for him, I think.
28:26
Derek
It's hard to tell. I kind of read this as a comedic beat inserted to break up because there's kind of a lot of that. And I mean, you know, this is proceeded with him through the line of like, you've got, you know, come here, cat, Amuse me. And then it kind of. I can't tell if it's a scratch or the. The impact drawing kind of almost makes it look more like it's a little bit of a bitch slap.
28:49
Case
That's true. We don't see claws.
28:50
Derek
Yeah, yeah. You know, the assistants laugh, you know, and like, snicker at him as soon as it's done. But also, like, I don't know that this is a moment that needed, like, a Snicker moment to break it up. And it doesn't read very directly as, like, a comic relief moment either. So I'm not. I'm not the firmest on that interpretation. It's just the best I got.
29:18
Keith
I kind of read it as, like, because he's losing, you know, part of who he is, maybe the cat doesn't necessarily recognize him in that moment or something like that. Some kind of instinctual thing. That's what I kind of read it as. But I'm not sure.
29:31
Case
Yeah. Certainly a moment that. That could be read a few different ways. Because Derek, I. I don't disagree with. With that interpretation that it was supposed to be a comedic beat. Like, looking at him like, oh, yeah, I could. I could see it being a comedic beat, but in my head, like, being a, like a person who, like, loved his cats and like, you know, the thought of a cat not loving you back is like. That's such a heartbreaking moment to me. Yeah.
29:58
Derek
See, I've never. And like, I. I'm gonna say something. I was gonna say as somebody who's never had cats, but I want to preface. I like cats. I'm not anti cat person. I'm not one of those. But I've never had cats. So I mostly know cats as a thing that I hope they like me and they don't smack me. I mostly know them as things that want to smack me. So I guess cats smacking things and smacking people is kind of my normal expectation. So it's kind of interesting the way that, like, your different life experience can kind of color the way you read that scene. Don't you love media. Media criticism and media analysis?
30:37
Case
Yeah.
30:38
Derek
Don't you love the eye of the beholder? It's so good.
30:41
Case
Yeah, that makes. It makes a lot of sense, the different perspectives right there. Yeah. Because I am such a sim for animals that I'm like, oh, yeah, I.
30:54
Keith
Am definitely more of a dog person, but I don't mind cats.
30:57
Derek
So I like when I go to a pet store and there's a big fat kitty on. On a. On a shelf somewhere, just chilling. That's his job.
31:03
Case
Yeah. But anyway, so Yolanda's dad comes in and says, like, your attention, please. Something. Something is happening. And we see Judith Callahan and. And Keith. I think were talking about this and I was getting this scene in my head where we actually see Mrs. Callahan. I don't think we actually see her earlier in the book.
31:25
Derek
I don't think so, because I remember hitting this point and being like, oh, this is. Is this the. The interview that he got with her back then? And I guess I at first did not recognize that this is specifically an unaired part clipped out from the rest of the interview that he did use, because they did kinda. He gets all those interviews and they kind of do gloss over exactly how much of that got used. And you kind of jump to the piece already being out and everyone already being like, wow, that guy's a pedophile. Crazy. Isn't it great that you Have a society that cares when high ranking people turn out to be pedophiles.
32:09
Keith
I know they actually kill themselves the bare minimum. Like Jesus, man. Like. Yeah, no, yeah, I. I do. Yeah. I do think. Yeah, it's. This is the first time we saw her because I was trying to remember we talked about that last time. I like that she has an eyebrow ring. I like that touch for a classic woman. I thought that was cool. So.
32:30
Derek
Yeah, yeah, very Jackie Kennedy with an eyebrow ring.
32:33
Case
Yeah, exactly. I was about, I was about to say that. But yeah, I mean, and like specifically like her complaint about the Smiler. It feels very Jackie Kennedy but. But even more heartbreaking where it's just like he sleeps around and I wish he would even pretend to lie to me about it because then at least it feels like you are trying to save my feelings in some way. But instead you don't even care enough to do that.
33:03
Derek
Yeah.
33:04
Keith
And the. He lies to everyone else like, you know, why doesn't he just try to lie to me? I'm like, that hurt.
33:11
Case
Yeah. So. So Spider confirms when K asked like, is that the file I just sent out? That this is the one he got and that he got it when he did the telepresence system earlier on in the book and that he didn't release this portion because she seems so sad. And we're seeing the softer side of Spider Jerusalem right now where really human moment. Yeah.
33:34
Derek
Really like. Yeah, yeah. A softer moment from somebody who takes refuge in being kind of heartless.
33:44
Case
Yeah. So he didn't release it because she was alive and now that she's dead, it's, you know, all bets are off. So he released that and does a follow up by releasing the information that they got from Fred. Christ. And so we get the audio from the, the beat down session that we had in the last volume with just pictures of Fred Kreis going on. And it's cut together with shots of Mrs. Callahan and then also shots of Liesel and sort of just. It's a lot of just like putting the pieces together. We get Fred's dialogue, which we've heard him say before. But then we're getting all the shots to sort of be like, okay, just in Case we haven't been following the. This is why everyone like should be pissed off at the Smiler. This is why he's a fucked up dude.
34:39
Case
And then it cuts to armed fucking thugs just falling in on every single news outlet in the city.
34:47
Keith
Also Eerily prescient. Uncomfortably prescient did feel good. No,.
34:57
Derek
First time I read this was before I really cared about journalism. And the second time I read this was after I'd spent eight years working in local news.
35:07
Keith
So.
35:09
Derek
Oof. What can I say but oof.
35:11
Keith
Yep.
35:12
Case
Yep. And then we've got this really nice shot where we've got all of the. These jackbooted thugs coming, closing in on the SPKF studio. And then we cut to the White House, but negative. And the arrangement of the shapes is so similar to the, to all of the. I'm just going to keep saying thugs from the shot before,.
35:42
Derek
Like shot blocking is very similar where like the. The head of. And helmet of one guy in the upper left is very similar to the way that the tree blocks out that.
35:53
Case
Corner of the exact.
35:55
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
35:57
Derek
Really exceptionally good panel design here.
36:02
Keith
Yeah, 100%.
36:03
Case
Yeah. Then. Then we cut back to. To Spider and the gang. And this is again one of those scenarios of like some of the drama by way of techno babble in this series doesn't necessarily hold up, especially now with like, modern understandings of how like servers work. But you know, it. It's moments like these that are. Let's have some basic drama of like, okay, we're. We're losing access to all the different hosting sites that we're using to keep the whole alive. Which yeah, sure, pro, like makes enough sense if you're like literally living on like, like identified servers. But you know, at this point, like, the Internet is so sprawling and crazy that I don't know. It, It.
36:53
Case
It wouldn't necessarily be as one to one like that, but it is a, a fun sort of element of the like, they're slowly getting shut out of the, of this whole thing. And oh wait, now we're getting a feed from like the university that's on like in the city. And this is where we get another one of those like, Warren Ellis Britishisms just in there where like, cheeky bastards, they've hacked the campus security cam system.
37:20
Derek
It's like, you would not hear somebody say that in America, right? In any point in time. It's just not. That's quintessentially British, right.
37:34
Case
Which. It's just. It's so funny like seeing this like, British author trying to write like an American and like an edgy Gen XY kind of American at that. And anyway, so it turns out that there's thugs in the university and it's a bad look. We get this like really terrifying shot of just like just row after row of armed thug just ready to assault students.
38:07
Derek
I mean, I think you know, the imagery of like Kent State. Right?
38:12
Keith
Yeah.
38:12
Derek
Burned into a lot of Americans minds, even people who were too young to be alive at the time that it happened. Because that imagery and those like photos and videos became the pattern for this every time it would ever be portrayed fictionally. You know, so like in one way, like yes, the, the thugs closing in on like the campus protesters is like, it feels very prescient today, right, where we're cracking down on, you know, speech on college campuses, especially where it's in protest of the current administration. And like yes, it's leaning into the imagery of how we've always portrayed, you know, violence against like protests at a college campus. But I also think like Trans Metropolitan is itself politically self aware enough to know it is explicitly pulling from the Kent State shootings.
39:13
Case
Yes, thank you for referencing that because that is exactly what I was going to say next. So thank you for reading my brain.
39:21
Derek
Same brain.
39:22
Keith
Yeah, it was just hanging over the whole thing like.
39:24
Case
Yes, yeah, so, yes. So, so obviously the series is just extremely aware and history just repeats itself like crazy is the, just the, the thesis of this goddamn book. So we cut to the president's like press person who it says that there will be no further briefings and then says listen, your presence here is a privilege, not a right, which feels very much like our current press.
39:58
Keith
Mm Mm.
40:01
Derek
Damn. It's almost like fascism's predictable.
40:03
Case
Yeah, just a wee bit cut back to the campus and it's getting heated. Spider asks if, if K is providing the feed out there, but it is like no, it's currently on tv so what's the point? Then it gets cut off and that's when we start to see that all the news networks are being forced to cut off their feed of all the jackbooted thugs who are harassing students and also other people throughout the city. The media is entirely being shut down from revealing anything that is being done in the city at the moment.
40:42
Keith
Just like a complete blackout and just.
40:44
Derek
Yeah, I do like to like flip through the completely vapid bullshit that's been being aired instead of the news. I mean obviously it's hyper exaggerated, but it is the common criticism of how toothless modern news can be, you know, that they'll focus on fluff and Ads, you know, over the important story that's happening right in front.
41:14
Keith
Of all of us.
41:15
Case
I like the one panel where it's like next up is Mother Nature a terrorist? It just feels like the smash cuts, that scene of like Sinclair Broadcasting, like the conglomerate that is like bought up like all the local news and forced them to have like these like stupid right wing talking points.
41:33
Derek
Like they've got to read verbatim.
41:35
Keith
Yeah, I like that.
41:37
Derek
His name is Crom Stockley, which is just a fantastic.
41:42
Case
We.
41:44
Derek
Came up with anchor name and that's it. That's what he was born to be. You can't be a Crom Stockley and be anything else.
41:51
Keith
Yep.
41:52
Case
So Spider, ask K if they're able to get up and like there's some more techno babble of like they're trying to jam it, but we're getting it. We're barely getting it through. And noting that with it up that it's almost certain that like eventually the authorities are going to be able to trace it back to this estate.
42:12
Keith
Right, exactly. It's, it's using again like you said technobabble to set a time limit, to set stakes. But honestly I don't think it worked for me because I was kind of like all this like, oh, they're trying, not only trying to hack us, but they're trying to block us out. There's no sign or like there's no visible sign of overcoming any of this struggle. So it's kind of a struggle that really goes nowhere beyond the fact that eventually they do show up. You know what I mean? Right. It's hard to show active hacking, you know what I mean? In a visual medium, like it's hard to like. So there's literally just like I'm having a problem, you guys should worry. That's literally what's happening here. And I'm like, it's fine.
42:58
Derek
But it's very Hollywood, right?
43:00
Keith
Yeah, yeah. 100% Yeah.
43:02
Derek
You know?
43:03
Case
Yeah. And movies, it's an even easier time making hacking look engaging. And it's hacking in movies. So let alone.
43:13
Derek
This is probably more realistic that it's the comic, like the 2001 or 2002 era. Like speculative future writing equivalent of saying like yeah man, I can put our VPN through another vpn, but eventually they're gonna find us.
43:28
Case
Keep in mind this is a contemporary of Swordfish.
43:30
Derek
Yeah, yeah, Fair.
43:33
Case
Yeah.
43:35
Keith
I wish this futurist version of hacking looked like hackers because I would love that.
43:43
Case
So this is Another spot where we get Yelena's dad sort of showing off that he is very Spider esque and that there is like something electro complex going on.
43:53
Derek
Is he looking a little like little. Little Vladimir Lenin to y' all or am I the only one seeing that?
44:01
Case
I was seeing him as like looking particularly Spider ish.
44:05
Derek
I mean, he says.
44:05
Keith
True.
44:07
Derek
Yeah. I don't know, I just. He looks very Lenin to me for some reason.
44:13
Case
Yeah. I mean, you saying that I'm like. Yeah, no, I see. I see it for sure. Yeah.
44:16
Derek
But I also see where you're probably right. I was probably supposed to be saying Spider this entire time.
44:20
Keith
A little bit.
44:21
Case
I mean, specifically. Well, where he goes. Political fighting is a disease. I've had a long period of remission, but I'm still quite infected like you. And he's wearing the glasses and kind.
44:31
Derek
Of the obvious thing. Don't know why I didn't see that.
44:34
Case
That's just my interpretation of it. But like. Yeah, like particularly this page is. Is the page where again, a guy who has had different facial hair every time we've seen him comes across looking the most Spider ish in these, like two panels right here.
44:49
Keith
Yeah. And literally putting them right next to each other, like close up. It's like drawing attention to the comparison, I think.
44:55
Case
So we cut back to the campus and the students are like putting stickers of the. The, like the three eyed smiley face stickers from the transient movement. And they're using that as the sign of their movement. Yelena goes, what does that mean? And. And Spider goes to them. I could guess, like, which is true. Like, what. What does this mean to them all? And is it specifically because. Is this like Black Lives matter to a degree, but for transients?
45:27
Keith
Like. Well, we've seen in the series that this sticker has come to symbolize Spider too. Yes, People have been wearing the shirt. So I think this is a Spider thing.
45:36
Derek
Personally, I think it's kind of the way I kind of read it. Like, it definitely started with the transients. It has come to be very associated with spider. And I think by this point it has simply become resistance. Like just a punk symbol. Right. Of. Of rebellion against the norms, you know, the political norms.
45:58
Keith
Yeah, I mean, and one of the. One of the protesters literally just looks like Spider, like shaved his head. Weird and stuff.
46:04
Derek
But yeah, but has this like shaved out for his head.
46:09
Keith
Yeah, exactly.
46:10
Case
The future hairstyles. But yeah, so the, like, they've. They've got little, like little makers or little printers that they're printing off these, the stickers and slapping it on the face of all these thugs. One of, one of them on their heads up display, like it says possible threat. And, and like, we get a, a zoom in on like, on the hand, like reaching for the printer and he raises the gun and that's where the issue ends.
46:40
Keith
Yeah. And then the next one opens pretty,.
46:43
Derek
Pretty much exactly where you think it's gonna.
46:45
Keith
Yeah.
46:45
Case
Yep.
46:46
Derek
Yeah. Because, I mean, we start the next issue and just immediately jump to the. Here's the bloodbath, you know. Yeah, it is. I mean, we make all of our parallels, right, to kind of the political moment that we're in right now. And I'm sure just about any of us who have been watching, paying attention, worrying about the current political moment have worried about this exact thing happening in Minnesota, right? That like, it just takes one jumpy idiot, one of these untrained clowns to get a little fearful and trigger happy. And, you know, you end up with a Kent State shooting a Boston Massacre, you know. So again, like, just the timing on going back and choosing this for a reread is.
47:37
Case
Yeah. Yes, it felt that way when we started and it has continued to be even more so as we have gone through. And I'm sure that as this is released, it will continue to be extremely apt.
47:54
Derek
Yeah.
47:55
Keith
Hey, who knows? By time this is out, maybe everything will better.
48:01
Derek
It could happen. It could happen tomorrow.
48:04
Keith
Yeah. Recording this in February, everybody.
48:09
Case
Yes. Spider watches this whole scene like they all watch this whole scene of the thugs just opening fire on the students and particularly at the one guy. But like, we see them like open fire on a bunch of other students. So they're just gunning down just.
48:34
Derek
Fucking kids with the one panel in the middle of it of the TV station going and now on sports, like. Right, yeah, just. Just hammering in the. The irresponsibility of. Of the moment from kind of the media at large, which again, doesn't feel reminiscent of what we're going through right now at all.
49:03
Keith
The.
49:03
Case
The whole con or K confirms that the whole. Is the only one actually broadcasting this at this point. And we just see them just like opening fire on students. Channon says, Christ, like a university would be full of armed kids in a flash demonstration with no preparation. And this again, just feels extremely prescient. But also, like we said, like history rhymes. And then Spider knows that there was no order to shoot and they start drawing conclusions based on that. That I either they all panicked or they were told that it was okay to engage in violence.
49:37
Keith
Yeah.
49:37
Derek
And I think the way that's phrased is kind of that, like it's unrealistic that this bunch of professional soldiers all freaked out, therefore it's likely that they were already given the order.
49:49
Keith
Yeah, 100%.
49:50
Derek
And like that is almost certainly true within the text, you know, and it fits the, the tone of the story and the whole conspiratorial nature of what's going on. But like it is also I think that the framing of it, especially where it's like you know, kid reaching into coat pocket for the label maker, you know, I mean, how many shootings from police and other law enforcement have we seen over the last however many years over jumpy professionals, you know, So I know that's intended to be a rhetorical question, but I would merely point out that in real life the opposite is very much like scary likely.
50:42
Case
Yeah, yeah, but as you note in the text, it's certainly the scenario of malice as opposed to incompetence.
50:55
Keith
Yeah, 100%.
50:57
Case
And Spider notes that as we said, it is weird that these like professional soldiers freak out, assuming that these are all professional soldiers and all that, yada yada. But we cut back to the White House.
51:12
Keith
So real quick, before you move on, because I want to, I wanted to throw out that the reason, one of the reasons that these guys are faceless. Right. Is because we don't want to identify them as people. They're extensions of the smiler. So my natural thought is, hey, here's two options. Which one do we think he's capable of more? You know what I mean? Hiring incompetent people to kill people or intentionally killing people because he wants to. You know, that's kind of the way I saw is like they're all faceless. You know what I mean? Like his face is their face.
51:43
Case
Yeah, I mean I think in with that question posed, I would say that I would assume that the Smiler is more acting out of malice as opposed to incompetence.
51:54
Keith
100. Exactly. Yeah. So he's explicitly stated he does things out of malice.
51:59
Case
So we cut back to the White House and Robert mcx, who has really just elevated himself over the course of this. He's now the hard hitting journalist, like actually putting the screws to the White House press secretary, like storms in, points out the shooting situation and while the networks are down, she responds with that, which is just great because you just know that like the, like it's all just like falling apart here.
52:30
Keith
And again, we talked about in the last one with Robert McEx. It's nice to see. I, I kind of picked up on like the whole if Spider's not going to be around much longer, someone else is gonna need to step up. You know, we need people to step up in general and we get a great payoff for that later. So I'm gonna kind of jump ahead. But again, we're continuing this Robert McEx, like, redemption tour, if you will. Yeah, so, yeah, really cool.
52:52
Case
So we cut to some of the other feeds that are going on. We see a sex puppet scene. We see that Robert McX is not being aired because of the lockdown on the press that is going on. And we cut to Oscar Rossini saying that he's ready for them to like come find him.
53:13
Derek
That he's gonna be wired on those little espressos.
53:16
Case
I know he's having so many of them.
53:19
Derek
Every time we look, he's got another one of those things up to his lips.
53:23
Keith
He's very interesting in this scene and as we go on, because this is a random reference to throw out there, but he reminds me of Danny Rand, the Iron Fist. Because I'll quickly say one of my favorite relationships in comics is Luke Cage. Danny Rand. I think it's the most important friendship in Marvel comics.
53:41
Derek
God bless you for actually reading some of those comics and not forming all of your opinions off of a half assed Netflix show.
53:49
Keith
Oh, I liked the show. We'll get into that.
53:52
Derek
I love Heroes for Hire though.
53:53
Keith
Yeah, no, it's great. So not to deviate too much because I will talk an hour, but one of the best relationships is them. And there's an issue. Don't ask me to tell you which one. Off the top my head, where basically Danny is like, he makes a symbolic stand and he's like, no, this is injustice. And Luke is like, cool, you're a rich white guy. I'm glad you can take a stand. And I always remember that moment and being like, holy shit. Like, that's a really important moment. And this dude, Yelena's dad is like, no, let them come. And it's like, that's cool. You have money to get yourself out of this, bro. Like, that was my first thought.
54:29
Case
Yeah, there will be a little bit of payoff for that specifically.
54:32
Keith
Yeah.
54:33
Case
But yeah, and I like that K is like, I'm so not ready for this news. Was only ever going to be a Sideline, were going to use the hole for porno.
54:42
Keith
Which explains the name. Yeah.
54:44
Case
Which is funny to think about because we. We've seen moments of like, material on like, pornhub being like. I'm trying to remember the whole, like, specifics on this one, but, like, I. There have been positive uses for Internet porn technology.
55:01
Derek
Oh, there have definitely been, like. I can't remember specifically. There definitely been moments where, like, video that is. Is being like, censored on social media is. Is allowed to air on like, pornhub. Yeah. I don't think anything's anywhere close to like, this degree of consequence, but, you know.
55:23
Case
Yeah, right. And certainly if we want to get into like, the technological advancements of it all, like, the modern streaming only exists because of porn.
55:32
Keith
Oh.
55:32
Derek
I would say every great media leap forward was chosen by the pornography industry.
55:37
Case
Oh, for sure. Like, we. We could go into a long diatribe.
55:40
Derek
About you knew that Blu Ray was going to beat HD DVD because the porn industry picked Blu Ray.
55:45
Case
Right, Exactly.
55:46
Keith
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
55:48
Case
It's 100% true. It's also.
55:51
Derek
It's also insane to say out loud, but yes.
55:55
Case
And they. Jay Baruchel does a full explanation of that in Tropic Thunder. Like, there's. They just like, cut to him explaining, like, how porn dictated, Blu Ray over HD dvd. It's a wonderful scene that they. That they include in that. Anyway, tangents aside, cutting back to. To choppers everywhere. More thugs. They're just. Everywhere. They're thugs. And Spider gets a. Gets a call and it's from Mary and her. Her story gets interrupted by we. We see a shot of the. Of the campus and news about the blackout going on. But we. We cut to Mary trying to explain some stuff that's going on here. And this is probably the most infamous example of a continuity up in the entire series.
56:51
Case
Ellis has been asked about this and has confirmed that he just up on this one, which is that Mary was given the camera after Shaq was. Had killed himself.
57:02
Keith
Oh, interesting. I didn't catch that. I didn't.
57:05
Derek
I didn't. Yeah. Think about that in the moment. But you're right.
57:08
Case
Yeah. Certainly after. After Vita dies. And so.
57:14
Keith
And.
57:15
Case
And it's not one of the. The way the story is told because, like, it's told where he confides with her that he is hunting for Vita's killer.
57:27
Keith
Right.
57:28
Case
And then gives her the camera. So it's. It's not even a scenario of like, well, was this a flashback or something? And like, Ellis was just like, yeah, I just up. I'm writing 60 issues straight through. Like, like the continuity of it is just not something that you pay as much attention to. And I'm like, this makes sense. Makes me think of like the long campaigns that I've run as a Dungeon Master where it's just like, yeah, sometimes you just need to sort of like stick the landing as best you can and like some details have to get fudged to make it fit as properly as you can make it.
58:01
Derek
Like you can tell he was keeping Mary around and bringing her back up once or twice like for a reason. I think. I think anybody who is, you know, semi media savvy saw that Chekhov's gun being placed right. It was just always a question of how was it going to pay off. What, how was Mary going to end up being like a surprising linchpin in you know, the finale? And it is kind of good to see her coming in and it's like, okay, here we go. This is, you know, I've been waiting to see what they want to do with her. But you're right, like I totally didn't think about the fact that the timeline is off on that.
58:40
Case
But yeah, that's not a big deal.
58:42
Derek
It's fine.
58:43
Case
Yeah. It just is one of those infamous continuity fuck ups. But the point is that Mary has shots of Shax hiring Vita Severn's killer and so she figures that through a payphone and she can email things because the marcher technology just was not it. It's just so close but so far away from like what technology would be at. Not, not even like the five years away from the iPhone. But like if this is 2002 at this point that we're talking about like the modern smartphone has already been conceived of and like by 2004 we're talking about full on Internet communication devices that are like perfectly capable smartphones in terms of like what we would consider one today.
59:39
Derek
This is the past idea of the future, right?
59:42
Case
Exactly.
59:42
Derek
In a very charming but wrong way.
59:45
Case
Yeah. I've referred to this as a 20th century work of speculative fiction as opposed to a 21st century work were 20th century people.
59:54
Derek
So.
59:55
Keith
And earlier obviously Mary was the person I was talking about when were talking about Liesl, by the way. Yes.
01:00:01
Case
Yeah. So it's good that she doesn't. So we get a very like Johnny Mnemonic sequence in terms of like how they transfer the data because Mary is calling spider on the phone trait that is in his brain. And so it's like, well, we'll. We'll have to, like, share some of the. Like, we'll have to store the data in your brain. And I was like, but my brain is, like, starting to fail on me. And blah, blah. We'll have to give up, like, one of your bowel movements or a memory of one of your.
01:00:29
Derek
Those are really good shit.
01:00:30
Case
I had to kill it with a shovel.
01:00:31
Keith
You know, I love that you mentioned Johnny Mnemonic, because I swear to God, two days ago, I saw it on Netflix, I want to say. And I'm like, I should rewatch that. And I was. I was telling Amanda about the Henry Rollins monologue. The information overload. Like, I know that by heart. It's great.
01:00:48
Case
So Yelena cross references all the pictures and confirms, like, okay, this one's a picture of the actual killer. Meanwhile, guards sort of come up to Mary and eventually let her go because. Because she's a revival. And they. They're like, she. She's not worth anything. But on. While she's being allowed to leave, she goes, ugi. Which is heartwarming, but at the same time, she's being allowed to leave.
01:01:18
Keith
So.
01:01:19
Derek
Yeah. Easier to say that in that moment, but.
01:01:22
Case
Right. So Spider is thrilled about this. They. They share the details. This is when Yelena's dad says, like, no, you guys get out of here. There's still going to be more to this, but I'm going to. I'm going to let them try to arrest me because it's gonna be funny.
01:01:42
Derek
Yeah. And he. You know, a little bit of a. As they arrest him.
01:01:46
Case
Yeah.
01:01:49
Derek
But, you know, he kind of just listen, like, look, I'm rich, I'm white, I'm famous, but I'm coming along peacefully. What are you gonna do about it?
01:01:56
Case
Yeah. Like, we see a little bit of the chaos that's going on at the White House, as they say that, like, oh, definitely the Smiler has, like, we. We've. We've pushed it far enough. Like, the Smiler is. Is on his way out. The. The only question is, like, what is he gonna do with the, like, the last, like, gasp of power that he has.
01:02:15
Keith
Yeah. And just burn it down, like. Yeah. It's crazy.
01:02:21
Case
Yeah. So we get. We get Oscar being, like, kind of. Kind of smooth. He pours a glass of wine for K. As the rest head out.
01:02:29
Keith
I ship it.
01:02:30
Case
Yeah. We get a nice little, like, kiss on the forehead of Oscar to Yelena as she's heading out. And it reminds Me of the, like, kiss on the forehead from the previous volume when Spider is like, happy that she wrote the article for him.
01:02:48
Keith
Right, yeah, more of that complex. Yeah.
01:02:52
Case
We conclude the issue with more of these fucking thugs showing up at the Rosina compound. And he comes out and he gives this like, fairly badass speech about just how impressive he is as a person. He says, I am Oscar Rossini, noted city philanthropist, a supporter of the party in government, active on a dozen political committees, and a substantial donor of financial gifts. I have no criminal records, several awards, three of which were given to me by presidents and a medal. I am also finally, a television star. I would like to see. I'd like it if you could arrest me now because it will ensure that in a week's time you will be in a most unpleasant prison with a mutant erection of a career dog rapist deep in your colonial.
01:03:36
Derek
Yeah, again, like, as we bring up that it's definitely meant to be like a parallel with Spider and like that kind of a. A weird complex with Yelena. Like, yeah, he's now like, doing the grin and saying a Spider ism.
01:03:52
Case
Yes.
01:03:53
Derek
You know, so God damn it, he's spreading.
01:03:56
Keith
Right.
01:03:57
Case
And, and so then we, we pick up with the next story, which is straight to hell, where it opens with explosions and someone is throwing a Molotov cocktail at a. A Callahan poster on a wall. We cut to Robert mcx outside of the White House recording, and I'm not entirely clear what. Where his feed is going if they're like, locking down.
01:04:21
Keith
Well, it's going everywhere, but yeah, I.
01:04:23
Derek
Was gonna say the way I read it is it's going out to like, affiliate stations everywhere outside the city, but then the city is blocking it.
01:04:31
Case
Gotcha.
01:04:33
Derek
This is, this is where like again, working in broadcast news for so long. Sadly, this is like, makes complete sense to me, but may not have as much to a bunch of other people.
01:04:46
Keith
So.
01:04:46
Case
Yeah, that makes sense. And, and I love that mcx was like, forced to, like, present a script and then he's like. And this is a first for me, which is I'm significantly deviating from my script.
01:04:58
Keith
So good.
01:04:59
Derek
Freaking out in the control room.
01:05:02
Keith
It's so good. We'll do it live. Fuck it. Yeah.
01:05:06
Case
It's so wild because, like, you end up, like, really liking Robert McX.
01:05:09
Keith
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Even though he looks like the guy you will not like.
01:05:13
Case
For real.
01:05:15
Derek
Yeah, he looks like the uncle I don't want talking at Thanksgiving.
01:05:19
Keith
Yeah, right.
01:05:20
Case
So anyway, so macaque sort of explains more about, like, what's going on with. With the state of the world and. And calls on the president to. To stop. Answer your country. Explain what we're seeing. And notes that the only people who are actually asking the questions are Spider Jerusalem, Shannon Yarrow, and. And Yelena Rossini.
01:05:41
Derek
This is the first of a long string of unbroken, what I'm going to call Aaron sorkin moments.
01:05:48
Case
Yes. Yeah.
01:05:48
Keith
100. We referenced the newsroom so many times on this show.
01:05:53
Derek
Yeah, look, I. I will sometimes clown on Aaron Sorkin, but I'm not gonna pretend I don't. Super love the newsroom. We have a lot of the newsroom moments coming up.
01:06:05
Keith
It's fine. It's just my favorite show.
01:06:08
Case
So anyway, so mcx, like, calls out the president for. For the fact that, like, students were being shot for carrying stickers. So apt for the Times. And we get shots of the news where we are seeing that the House Judiciary Committee is convening an emergency session because of the evidence of Vita's death. And the FBI is opening up an investigation into the death of Mrs. Callahan and many lawsuits are being filed. And, yeah, everything is starting to fall apart for the president, but he still has martial law going on the city. And so all the news feeds there are still being prevented from showing anything.
01:06:48
Keith
Yeah, exactly. Which is kind of cool because we've been so city centric. Right. And we talked about the city as basically a living being, and where the city goes, the country goes. Well, now the country is getting the information the city's not. And I was kind of like, oh, that'd be really cool if, like, this is how we open up to the country as a whole. It doesn't really go that way, but that was kind of what I was hoping it would do. You know, it's like, let's open it up at the last minute. But, yeah, we don't quite get that.
01:07:12
Case
Yeah. But we do have, like, a nice rallying moment where all these different news organizations all, like, give up on. On their own safety and say it and that they're just gonna, like, air whatever, and. And it's. It's a domino situation. Like, once the first, like, group starts doing it, everyone else, like, kind of falls in.
01:07:32
Keith
Yeah.
01:07:33
Derek
Like, everyone else being like, nat, fuck it. They're doing it. We're doing it too. Let's go. We're all going to be brave together.
01:07:40
Keith
Yeah. They broke. We're breaking. Like, they're not getting the ratings, which is very funny. Yeah, the newsroom. The whole newsroom thing happens. It's the whole episode of. Was it. It was Osama bin Laden in the newsroom when he was killed. And they're like, they don't want to be the first one to go once someone goes, fuck it, go. Yeah.
01:07:57
Case
And. And so we got to Royce, like, also chiming in that, like, they're gonna go live with what they. What they have. And he says, let him fucking fire me. Which, which is great because, like, we like Royce. He's been a great contributor to this whole series. And the fact that he's not Spider's editor at this point is, like, kind of sad just because we're. We're missing out on him as a character. So it's nice that. That he also stands up for. For journalistic ethics.
01:08:26
Derek
Yeah. He still made, you know, what a really heavy impact on this last chunk of the series.
01:08:30
Case
Oh, yeah. Two Fisted Editor is one of my favorite stories.
01:08:33
Keith
Yeah.
01:08:33
Derek
I'm glad that they. They. They've kind of rolled him back into relevance towards the end.
01:08:40
Case
So we see more. More civil disobedience. We see another Molotov cocktail, this time being thrown at one of these, like, big thug Humvees. Yeah. We see a newsfeed, like, show off, like, the. The. The various martial law troopers that are inside their particular newsroom, and we see, like, rioting people. I want to call out specifically Derek Robertson having a dude holding, like, a Wolverine claw thing here because he's got, like, his. His Marvel Max run on Wolverine later on. And there's another Wolverine reference in here. So, like, I. I just noted, it's like, oh, we. He's showing people with, like, Wolverine claws a bunch in here.
01:09:23
Derek
Wolverine claw. He's got a white wife beater. He's got kind of the, like, cornered hair a little bit. It's definitely.
01:09:29
Case
Yeah, yeah.
01:09:30
Derek
More than just a nod.
01:09:31
Keith
Yeah, definitely. That cola can says piss on it. It's the very first thing I saw was piss.
01:09:39
Derek
I was like, the way this series is, that could just be piss.
01:09:43
Keith
Yeah. I 100% expect it. The gangster moment for me, with the. With the media thing before we move on, is the lady telling the cameraman to turn the camera around. That's the most news ever happened.
01:09:57
Case
And then now footage of them killing unarmed students.
01:10:00
Keith
It's their smile. So good.
01:10:03
Case
Yeah.
01:10:03
Derek
Again, it's the shit. Like, there's a piece of you that just loves to, like, daydream that this would happen and work. Right, Right. Like, you would love to think that the collective national media would have this sort of moment of solidarity and call things exactly the way that they are, air the obvious things that we're seeing and just say it. And that would matter. And I'm not gonna say that can't happen or that it wouldn't work or matter, but, like, getting to read this out in a comic where it does happen and it does get to matter is like. That's why I keep. It's why I keep bringing up Aaron Sorkin is like, the reason we love the West Wing is we love West Wing moments. We love when that shit happens and works and it probably wouldn't in real life.
01:11:05
Case
Yeah, this is a power fantasy.
01:11:07
Derek
It's.
01:11:07
Case
It is cathartic as hell in a way that just, you know, we're. We're saying this is all prescient, but, like, this is a much happier ending than what I think we're gonna get in the real world. Yeah.
01:11:21
Keith
Yeah.
01:11:22
Case
So more Jack. Wooded thugs, and they finally come along upon the. The. The army of transients that Fred Christ has sort of assembled. He gives a big speech, and then the. Then, like, the one thug in the front goes, I don't see any cameras. And it's just very clear that, like, they can just get away with everything. Like, the big speech did matter. And in this moment, Fred is just like, we'll rush them because we don't have any other choice. And they all. They all fucking die.
01:11:53
Keith
I will say, first of all, Fred going out like a gangster, maybe nice. I mean, he could have just been a weasel. But it was also pointless, which I really liked, because that's kind of like Fred's whole thing is like, I'll make a stand. And they're like, there's no cameras. No one's gonna know about this. And, like, that's the last thing Fred hears is really great. Also, I very carefully studied the picture of the transients. These are his thugs. This is not the transient community. It's not the women and, you know, children and stuff. So I feel less bad. You know what I mean?
01:12:22
Derek
Yeah. See, I took it very much the way I kind of read this, was that, like, this is very much for show on Fred's part, that he expects that this is being broadcast and he can have his hero moment and try to, like, salvage his reputation. And no. And, like, kind of getting called out on it, like, there's no cameras, dude. This is pointless. And him going like, fuck. Like, yes, there's no cameras. There's no protection. We are about to get killed. But also, like, damn, I was really only mugging for the cameras.
01:12:57
Case
Right?
01:12:59
Derek
So it's like he kind of goes out, depending on how you read it. Like it's kind of gangster, but he also kind of goes out like a chomp.
01:13:07
Keith
Yeah. 100%. He thinks he's being gangster.
01:13:09
Derek
Yes.
01:13:10
Keith
Up to the moment he gets shot. Because it's.
01:13:11
Derek
I love the face he's making when he's like, shit. It's very pathetic.
01:13:15
Case
Yeah, it's very Fred Christ.
01:13:18
Derek
Well, yeah.
01:13:20
Case
Yeah. And so with that, arguably the antagonist that has been the longest running one in the series is now dead.
01:13:28
Keith
Yeah, yeah, the longest running one. Yeah, definitely.
01:13:32
Case
So we cut back to the White House where we. We get confirmation that he is heading out for some reason. And people are like, the press is trying to get statements out of him. And we get some really weird lines in here. Mr. President, Mr. President. Kill your wife, fuck cripples, police state, guilty of every crime. And then Robert McX. Tell us of your hate for the American people, Mr. President. And tell us of your hate for Spider Jerusalem. And at which point he just grabs his press secretary and like, throws her into the.
01:14:05
Keith
So funny.
01:14:05
Case
Yeah.
01:14:06
Keith
I love Robert McX. Just like, saying it. How he's gonna say it. It's so good. Just like, he's not like, hey, tell us about this. Every time he asks the President question, it's pointed and mean and I love it.
01:14:18
Derek
Hey, ass.
01:14:19
Keith
Like, it's so J.
01:14:21
Derek
Tell us how much you suck.
01:14:23
Keith
Like, literally, he's so J. Jonah Jameson coded. I love it. Yeah.
01:14:26
Case
Yes. Except we know he has a Scottish accent.
01:14:28
Keith
Oh, yeah. Nick X. Yeah.
01:14:32
Case
The President takes off. We. We get the. The cult of Vita Severn being like, if the Smiler is responsible for her death, like, there will be blood. But it looks like things are falling apart for him. And we get Spider, Yelena and Shannon on. On top of a roof, noting that the city is on fire and that things are going bad. And. And they speculate what the President would do right now considering how bad things are. And it's like, yeah, he's gonna come and fucking try to kill you. And it's like, yep, that. That is exactly what's about to happen.
01:15:03
Derek
And I'm ready for it.
01:15:04
Keith
Yep.
01:15:05
Case
And over the shoulder of Channing Yarrow is a fucking wolverine claw hand.
01:15:10
Keith
Oh, yeah. Hey, there it is yet again.
01:15:13
Case
Yeah, it's just a detail. I just noticed it.
01:15:15
Keith
It's.
01:15:16
Case
It's just. It's the thing that's. That's happening.
01:15:19
Keith
It's another one of these badass, like, superhero shots. We've had a lot of these lately. Like, yeah, this.
01:15:24
Case
This is, by the way, the. The panel that I'm using for the episode.
01:15:27
Keith
Oh, 100%. Yeah. I was. I didn't even have to ask.
01:15:29
Derek
I mean, it's.
01:15:30
Keith
It's.
01:15:31
Derek
It's absolute aura farming, like, right here for sure.
01:15:35
Case
So we. We. We open the. The next story. The long day closes, and we. The COVID Keith, did you see who the. Oh, it's Derek.
01:15:46
Keith
It's back to Derek. For the rest of the run, it's Derek.
01:15:48
Case
So we get a laptop saying shutting down with a bottle of Ellis Hard whiskey next to it and the bowel disruptor adjacent. And we. We open the issue with. With a helicopter flying in. And I'm guessing this is Air Force Two buys in. We get more, like, more news about how things are just, like, falling apart for him. And we see his, like, press secretary woman being like, fuck you back, Mr.
01:16:12
Keith
President, because he fucking sacrificed her.
01:16:15
Case
Right.
01:16:16
Keith
So good. I love the. I love the. The tease right here of him saying how far away from Dante Street? And it appears to be, like, just showing that he's not knowing where he is. This appeared to be, like. To emphasize how much he's losing, but it's actually a hook for later. And I really like that when it paid off.
01:16:36
Case
Yeah. So it's nice that we get the reminder of Spider being kind of fuzzy just because that is hanging over our head for this whole thing. Like, I like this where it's like. In fact, I feel when you talk to people and they lie to you and you write about it. Interview. Yeah. I feel an interview coming on.
01:16:51
Derek
I hate. This is the way that they show Spider, like, mentally declining towards the end of the series is that he just talks the way that I do.
01:17:02
Case
Right.
01:17:03
Derek
Where I forget, like, a very basic word in the only language I've ever spoken and have to explain it in a long, roundabout way. And then somebody's like, basic word. Yes.
01:17:17
Keith
Thank you.
01:17:18
Case
You know that shovel thing you use to dig food with? Spoon?
01:17:22
Derek
That's the bitch.
01:17:23
Case
Yeah. So we get a little bit of back and forth between Spider and Yelena, and Spider notes that you sound like me, just to keep that whole, like, she's turned it into Spider thing going on. Spider stumbles a little bit, and then they. They start walking through the streets, and, like, there's, like, rioting and stuff going on, and everyone who sees Spider, like, decides to start following him.
01:17:43
Keith
Yeah. Very, very Forrest Gump. I don't know why that was my first thought, but, like, very Pied Piper, I guess I could say, too.
01:17:49
Derek
But, yeah, it's kind of closer to where I was going with it.
01:17:52
Keith
Yeah, yeah.
01:17:53
Derek
I do like him marching up the street and with the crowd following behind him.
01:17:59
Keith
Yeah. It emphasizes what we've talked about this entire time is his relationship with the city. Yeah.
01:18:05
Case
Because we've seen these kinds of moments before with him where, like, he goes for a walk in the city and, like, everyone just follows him. And this is him doing it as his, like, final.
01:18:15
Derek
This.
01:18:15
Case
This is his final form for his confrontation with the Smiler, where it's just like. Yeah, I can amass an army of people just by, like, walking through the streets.
01:18:22
Keith
And he leans into it, you know, like, once. Once you get that full double page spread. He's, like, leaning into it, smiling.
01:18:29
Derek
He's literally leaning.
01:18:31
Keith
He's. Yeah, yeah. And I like the very edge of it. The guy taking a picture of it all. Like, hell yeah.
01:18:39
Case
And when he leans into it, you know whose hand he's holding.
01:18:42
Keith
Oh, I didn't even notice. I don't know, man.
01:18:48
Case
So they arrive at the Dante street police station. He gets frisked by. By Secret Service. I like the spot. Enjoying your job? I can't answer that, sir. Meanwhile, Yelena and Shannon start, like, corralling all of the journalists there. It's like, all right, so who's live right now for. For what we will see in a moment. Spider goes in and he is escorted into an office with the Smiler.
01:19:15
Derek
So the.
01:19:16
Case
There's, like, one Secret Service guy who's just, like, got a big old fucking smirk on his face when Spider walks by him. And I. I interpreted that as, like, the guy who's been doing all the hits.
01:19:27
Derek
Could be.
01:19:28
Keith
Oh, yeah. I mean, that. That could be the Case.
01:19:34
Case
Like, he doesn't get any comeuppance in. In this, so, like, it doesn't really matter if it is or not, but it was just like, oh, I think that, like, it's weird that they specifically show a sociopathic, like, Secret Service guy.
01:19:46
Derek
Well, I'm like. And then Spider looking back at him as he passes to, like, I do think there's something a little bit like calling out that. And I mean, I. I guess it could just be the paranoia of, like, Spider wondering, you know, who's. He just asked how many people are on the payroll, you know?
01:20:04
Case
Right.
01:20:05
Derek
So, I mean, it could also be that. But, like, I feel like that point's also already pretty well made and established before we hit these panels. So just an interesting thing. It does stand out.
01:20:15
Case
Just. Just a detail I caught. And then. Then Spider goes in to talk with the Smiler. And they say, there's two guards in there, and that's for your protection as well as his. Which is true. And, yeah. So Callahan slaps him around a little bit, and Spider makes fun of him for that. It's a. So this is it. Slap me around a bit and then shoot me. God, you're boring. But Callahan says, like, no, I'm not going to shoot you. The Secret Service agents are going to shoot you. And then they're like, no, we're not. The ones you paid off is, are still in the chopper. If you're going to kill him, you have to do it yourself.
01:20:53
Keith
It's so funny because, like, he becomes so impotent as a antagonist in this scene. It just becomes clear how much he's lost. And he thinks he's still in power. He's, like, diluting himself. And he probably thinks he can get away with it and he can just kill somebody else that he cares about and get away with it. Like, I think in his mind he's still like, I can pull this off, but he does. No idea. The game is over.
01:21:17
Derek
It kind of goes to show, like, how much people like the Smiler, how much, like, fascist, you know, authoritarian manipulators ultimately just rely on everyone around them going along with them. And as soon as people are like, man, what about. Nah. Yeah, then most of them don't have the skills or the guts to do it themselves.
01:21:41
Case
I mean, I, I will say, like, we've talked about Spider having, like, this degree of plot armor for this whole situation, and, like, this is a, a really big spot for it. Like, he very easily could have just been killed at this point, and only some of the information would have gotten out that he was looking for. I'm sure there would be, like, some additional conversation points about it, but, like, I don't know if Spider intended to be a murder when he went in there, but it's certainly he got lucky that the Secret Service guys that were in the room with them were not the ones that had been paid off.
01:22:17
Derek
Yeah, yeah. That would have gone very differently if they had been.
01:22:20
Case
Yeah. I don't see how you plan for that.
01:22:22
Keith
I like that they left. They didn't just say, no, shoot them and stand there. They just bailed. I thought that was kind of cool, right? Yeah.
01:22:30
Derek
Like, it's still cowardly.
01:22:32
Keith
Yeah.
01:22:33
Derek
But it's them saying, we want no part of this, rather than like, it's the second best option. I guess the best would be standing up and doing the right thing, but, you know, if they're not going to do that, at the very least they can just leave.
01:22:46
Case
So Spider needles the Smiler a little bit more, and the Smiler, like, admits just a little bit more information, specifically about Vita. And then Spider points out that, like, well, you've been so worried about me being covered with guns that you didn't even stop to think that I might be covered with something else. And that's source gas, motherfucker. It's broadcasting to all the reporters right outside.
01:23:06
Keith
And again, we get this deus ex machina that comes up quite a bit. And he. And it's something that the Smiler has accounted for in the past and just did it this time. And I thought that was kind of weird because I was like, oh, it's going to be source gas. I'm like, no, he saw that coming last time. He forgot, I guess.
01:23:24
Derek
See, what's funny is I forgot about source gas for. Until he brought it back up. And I was like, oh, shit, they've done this, like, multiple times. Yeah. And likewise, I was so focused on, like, what is going to be the play to try to kill him that I did not even think, like, damn. Yeah. It's just to ask leading questions and get him to admit to shit on recording. It's really that simple. So it's fun rereading it, knowing that was coming and reading Spider's kind of, like, very leading questions prior to the reveal. It's very fun, I think, to hit the reveal that it's the source gas and then scroll back, you know, go back up in your comic app and, like, read through that again, you know, because you can see where he's fishing.
01:24:15
Case
Yeah. It's just. It's one of those spots where, like, there. There's a little bit of reliance on the incompetence of the spy of the Smiler. And, like, you can argue that Spider has, like, done everything he could to, like, have the Smiler be off, like, off his game, you know, like, oh, you're so focused on me using a gun, you didn't stop to think about something else. But, you know, it seemed that the Smiler could just very casually negate, like, all. All of his tech before. So it's, like, surprising that he didn't stop to think about it this time.
01:24:47
Keith
Yeah. Yeah. It's just maybe because he's, you know, he shook basically. Like, he's frantic. You know what I mean? Maybe that's it. I don't know.
01:24:56
Case
Yeah. Again, Headcanon works Just fine for it, like. Yeah, but it's just a detail of like, Spider is just relying on the incompetence of strangers.
01:25:05
Derek
It's a lot of deus ex machina, you know, I mean, again, we got lucky that he didn't have any of the service agents on the payroll in the room. We got lucky that the Smiler is kind of too gutless to pull the trigger for the most part. Even when we do the, the source gas reveal and the Smiler starts getting ready to pull the like. Oh, so they're listening, oh my God, he's got a gun. He's got my gun, blah, you know. And it's like you could have pulled the trigger already.
01:25:38
Case
Right?
01:25:38
Derek
But he's, he's not going to. And so that's its own little piece of deus ex machina. And then it's like the police chief or lieutenant or whatever her role is coming in at the last minute to be like, caught you, motherfucker.
01:25:55
Keith
Bam.
01:25:56
Derek
You know, none of. During the. Which time the Smiler pulls the trigger, which he could have done, right? Incompetent villain syndrome on max display here.
01:26:11
Case
Yeah, Spider just gets very lucky in this whole situation. But, but yeah, it's. Detective Newton shows up and she knocks out the Smiler and arrests him at. And with that, Spider has used up all of his, reserves of strength and he falls to the ground saying one last stunt. Took it, took it all out of me. I'm so tired. And that ends the issue.
01:26:43
Keith
Yeah. Oh, man. Crazy.
01:26:50
Derek
Kind of leaving up in the air like what Spider's fate is going to be. So, you know, going in like episode issue 60 is just going to be the like. And here's the aftermath. We've wrapped everything up. What is Spider's fate?
01:27:09
Case
And we open with that being a little bit of a question. So we get a brick joke in the form of the guy of the toll keeper from the first issue being somewhat beaten up. He claims that he shit's crooked now because he was working with.
01:27:24
Derek
How does that even work, dude? Don't answer that.
01:27:28
Case
I mean the amount of violence directed at him for if I remember correctly, just being like kind of like an asshole. Like when Spider was like first coming into the city. Like, you know, it's disproportionate levels of violence. But, but anyway, he reveals that. That the filthy assistants beat his ass while Spider man just watched. Spider Man, Spider just watch. I'm amazed that's the first time that happened on this show, actually.
01:27:57
Derek
That's the worst story you could ever have to tell somebody. It's like, yeah, man, I got my ass beat. And Spider man was just watching and touching himself. That was the auto. Spider Man. It's okay.
01:28:11
Case
Yes. This is the superior one.
01:28:13
Keith
Yeah.
01:28:15
Case
So Royce is driving up through this whole beautiful vista. He's driving up the goddamn mountain to see Spider. And he arrives. We see the fence with like skulls out front, you know, just to have the medieval kind of displays that we see with Spider. When he gets there, Yelena runs up and says, uncle Mitch again. Which is fun that we have kept that running joke that she has with him.
01:28:41
Keith
Yeah.
01:28:42
Derek
It didn't strike me that there was actually like a familial, like, I mean, obviously they say that they lied about him being her uncle, but it doesn't seem like that's. It never struck me that there was actually any kind of like, fondness beyond.
01:29:00
Case
Right.
01:29:00
Derek
Like, yeah, you hired me.
01:29:02
Case
Yeah. It doesn't seem like he's a close family friend or something. He was just. Just a facade and one that, like. It's fun that she is called, like, I don't think she ever, like, really called him Uncle Mitchell before the reveal. It's really only been after that. We've gotten like two instances where it's been like, Uncle Mitch.
01:29:21
Keith
Yeah. I really like that. The toll booth operator was the same guy, by the way. I thought that was great.
01:29:26
Case
Yeah.
01:29:28
Keith
And the look of her new look, obviously is closer and closer is what I'll say.
01:29:35
Case
Yes. Well, so, I mean, right off the bat, we get this big ass spider tattoo on her shoulder that is like a. The. The female symbol, but with spider legs.
01:29:46
Derek
Yeah. She's got the buzz cut, the cigarette up behind the ear. The glasses are different. They're like the very narrow rectangle. It's the blue. It's blue glass and they're obviously symmetrical, but it's much closer to a spider esque set of glasses. She's dressing a lot more. I mean, like I said, it's. She's always kind of been in like the all black, but it's very simultaneously revealing a lot of skin. But it's not necessarily very, like, sexualized.
01:30:17
Case
Right. Well, it's the way Spider is, you know, like spider. Spider defaults to like wearing as little as possible. Yeah.
01:30:26
Derek
You know, it's sleek but frumpy somehow at the same time in a funky kind of way.
01:30:32
Case
Punky is a. Is a very good way to describe it. Yeah, yeah, but. But anyway, so Yelena leads in Royce, and she gives this whole, like, spiel about how bad Spider's doing, but indicates that he is able to grow pretty well.
01:30:50
Keith
I love the. I love the house. It's a gorgeous house.
01:30:52
Case
Yeah.
01:30:53
Derek
I'd kill for this house.
01:30:54
Keith
Oh, yeah.
01:30:55
Case
I mean, please. We're millennials. We kill four houses.
01:30:58
Keith
Yeah, it's true.
01:31:00
Case
But anyway, yeah, so Channon arrives at this point, and they.
01:31:03
Keith
They.
01:31:04
Case
They talk about how Spider is able to do gardening work, but he doesn't have the hand eye coordination. And we kind of get. Get a basic explanation of. Of what they're working on. So Yelena is about to head out to. To work on a special column for. For eight weeks. Meanwhile, Shannon had just been away, and she's, like, working on a book.
01:31:25
Keith
Very cool. I like the bit that, like, Royce is basically, like, you could owe me a column. And it's just like, you know, like, she's like, no, that's not my thing. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, they rather defined roles, which is interesting because it's almost like they're both taking over his two roles, one each. So. Yeah.
01:31:45
Case
Yeah. They go on to say that Yelena has just turned into Spider at this point. So just. They're just coming out and saying it.
01:31:52
Keith
Yeah, it's no longer subtext.
01:31:54
Case
Yeah, pure text.
01:31:56
Keith
We.
01:31:56
Case
We get the cat killing apparently, a fox and pissing on it, which is just fun to just catch up with the cat for a moment there. And then Royce is escorted out to see Spider, and Spider is. Is just sitting out there still rocking the shades and is apparently doing okay. But, like, I don't know.
01:32:17
Derek
Like, I will point out the change to, like, the greens, yellows, earth tones, and the, like, baseball cap is looking extremely late in life, Hunter S. Thompson, like, to the point where he was, like, nearly impossible to understand what he was saying because he was. His brain was just so fried on drugs and shit.
01:32:37
Case
Yeah.
01:32:38
Derek
Like, you look up interviews from, like, late in Hunter S. Thompson's life, and this is, like, startling how much it gives off the spread, the kind of looseness of it, you know, just the parallels continuing.
01:32:55
Case
Oh, yeah, for sure. In particular, I'll shout out look up interviews that Conan o' Brien did with Hunter S. Thompson. Like, he is incomprehensible.
01:33:06
Keith
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
01:33:11
Derek
I want to point out. Reminder, Hunter S. Thompson's from Louisville, Kentucky.
01:33:16
Keith
Yes.
01:33:17
Derek
He should have the same accent. I do. Like, there's no explanation for that man's voice.
01:33:24
Keith
Yeah, I like that. Obviously, he's more low key. I like that. He asked Shannon if he can have a cigarette. You know, he has to ask permission. That was kind of sweet, like.
01:33:36
Derek
Yeah, well, because, like, he's gonna need help getting it out and getting it lit. Right. If his hands don't work.
01:33:41
Keith
So the old Spider would be like, I want a cigarette. You know what I mean? That's true, though. That's true. Yeah. Yeah. There's.
01:33:48
Derek
There's a humility to it.
01:33:49
Keith
There's an affection here that. I think they were in a war zone, basically, for 10 volumes, like, you know what I mean? And now. Now they're. They're home, they're spending time, and they're all kind of like her, just like, sure. You know, Like, I think that's really cute.
01:34:03
Case
Yeah, that's. It is. Depending on your interpretation, which we'll. We'll talk about in a second, because I figured we'll hit the beats and then.
01:34:12
Keith
Yeah.
01:34:13
Case
And. And then see if that reframes anything. So. So we get some information about the Smiler, that he has an army of lawyers, that he's paying a shitload of money to keep him out of jail, and that is fine. He's gonna eventually run out of money.
01:34:28
Derek
I like the line about, you know, some are actually donating money to him and, like, thinking about all of the. Who just, like, call a customer a racial slur at their job and then get a couple hundred thousand dollars on a GoFundMe purely from people who are like, I like that you were racist.
01:34:46
Keith
The Kyle Rittenhouse one is the one that came to me.
01:34:49
Derek
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's just the tool of the right at this point is just like, I was a huge piece of shit. Please give me money for doing the thing you wish you could do.
01:34:57
Keith
And everyone is like, yes, they're bankrupting their own people. They can do it all they want.
01:35:03
Case
So Spider says that he's not getting better, that it's going very slow, but it's progressive, and that he is retired. But Royce doesn't believe him. He says, you'll be back. But Spider is adamant that he's done and they part on good terms. And Shannon sees Royce off. And this is when we get the reveal that the 1% of people that could recover from damage from eye pollen. Spider is in that group.
01:35:29
Derek
Yeah. He pulls the cigarette out. He puts the. He takes the. What looks like the gun and looks like he's gonna shoot himself, and then it's just a lighter, and he lights his own cigarette. And, yeah, he just cracks up, laughing. Spins the gun around on his finger. Revolver. Ocelot style Plot Armor, baby.
01:35:46
Case
Yeah.
01:35:47
Derek
I can't keep Spider Jerusalem down.
01:35:49
Keith
I don't know how I feel about this.
01:35:51
Case
So I've been wondering this whole goddamn time because we. So. So Derek Keith has had this running statement of, like, you know, in a cyberpunk story, there's no happy ending. And I've been like, well, there's pretty close to a happy ending.
01:36:04
Keith
There's a happiest possible ending, not a happy ending.
01:36:08
Derek
Yeah.
01:36:08
Keith
And I. That feels really like Bugs Bunny winking at the camera at the end. And then.
01:36:17
Derek
He is Bugs Bunny.
01:36:19
Keith
I know, but I wanted something. I think.
01:36:22
Derek
I think there was a part of me, the first time I was reading this, that was expecting that this would end with his, like, death and martyrdom. Right. And I think it very much feels like that's the thing that's building up to it. But the thing you have to understand is Spider Jerusalem built different.
01:36:41
Keith
Yeah.
01:36:42
Derek
Like, and that's been the running through line of the comic is he gets away with shit nobody else gets away with. He gets the. The dramatic protection of comic timing. So he does that. And I realize that he's good. He's in the clear. He's the. He's in the 1%. And it's the last prank that he can play on us, the reader. Right. Like, he denies us the sappy, expected, sacrificial lamb ending.
01:37:19
Keith
I think I would have liked it more if it. If he literally just didn't tell us, you know, like, they leave. He. If he lights the cigarette and you have to realize yourself, wait, he said he couldn't light his own cigarettes. And maybe that. That 1% panel is him just kind of smiling to himself if that's how it ended. But him being, like, 1%, spinning the gun around.
01:37:43
Case
Yeah.
01:37:43
Keith
It was a really weird tone in this story on those last three.
01:37:46
Derek
I see what you mean. I see what you.
01:37:48
Case
Yeah, yeah. So one thing that it makes me ask is how much do the assistants know? Like, were they just laying it on thick for Royce or were they actually in the dark?
01:37:58
Keith
It's lying to them.
01:38:01
Derek
How can you lying to them all the time if one of them's with him, like, at all times? Games.
01:38:08
Keith
Yeah.
01:38:09
Case
Like 100. Yelena knows for sure. The only question I have is if Channa knows. And I think she does. I think that they were laying it on thick for Royce. Like, where it's like, can I have a cigarette? And she's like, yes, little spider. You can have A cigarette.
01:38:25
Keith
Which is weird because Royce is his boy. Like, you know, like, I don't know.
01:38:29
Derek
Yeah. But there might be the expectation that they'll try to make him come back, and he wants to stay on the mountain and grow his vegetables, be a weirdo.
01:38:38
Keith
So how do I put this? Is this an attempt to leave the option open to come back to it later?
01:38:47
Case
Oh, for sure. Like, yeah.
01:38:48
Keith
Okay.
01:38:49
Case
Yeah.
01:38:49
Keith
Because I. Obviously, I know it was like a planned ending, you know, and everything like that, but, like, I think it's.
01:38:55
Derek
Possible, but I mean, it communicates firmly like, this is it. It's going out on a Looney Tunes, you know, but, but, you know, but it is. This is it. Roll the credits. We're good. I guess it's true that in today's pop culture of. Of legacy sequels and spin offs, there is nothing that protects us from a Trans Metropolitan revival or something that's like, just focused on, like, Yelena or something like that. I just. I kind of feel like if it was gonna happen, it would have happened by now. Right?
01:39:41
Case
Yeah. I also don't think that there. There's the taste for it, you know, the. The appetite, like. Well, well, I think that this is a really worthwhile series to like, go back and look at. Part of it is from the interesting standpoint of, like, what they were saying in 2002 about. About the future and how we've gotten to this point, you know, I think it. I mean, sure. So this kind of gets into the conversation then about. About the landing. Like, did they stick the landing? Is this a complete work?
01:40:13
Keith
I think it's complete. I literally have a problem with three panels, so I'm not going to bury a work for three slightly off, like, tone panels. You know what I mean? But, yeah, I. Yeah, I think it was pretty good. And maybe that is necessary, those panels, because of the tone of it. You know what I mean? Like, maybe it needs to have that, but I don't know. I would have liked a series ending. I don't know.
01:40:39
Derek
The series has a very schizophrenic tone. Yeah, right. Like, and it throws that manic sense of humor in. I mean, again, like, it's kind of like part of why I brought up like, the. The craziness of him waking up from a coma, shooting the other guys, them crashing into the church of Satan, hitting the nun, you know, Satan's head falling on the. The car, and then the cigarette coming through the roof and mashing the dude's head. Like, there is that's unnecessary. You could have stopped a whole page worth of panels before that point. But better, worse. Warren Ellis wanted to have that sort.
01:41:21
Keith
Of.
01:41:23
Derek
Manic, we cross the line twice kind of attitude. And not just when it came to being like offensive and edgy, like, but also in terms of like what they could get away with Spider. So I think I was primed for it, but I can see it being divisive for people. I really gotta be honest. I don't know what like general reaction to the end of this comic is.
01:41:55
Keith
I mean, I think it's, from what I understand, it's usually, you know, accepted pretty well. I've never, I never heard any particular.
01:42:00
Derek
Backlash, so I could see it being divisive. I liked it though. But yeah, again, like, I mean like, it's absolutely a complete work. I would, I would really, I would hate to see them do more of it at this point. I actively don't want that. There is a little piece in my head that's a little afraid. You know how like a bunch of different Garth Ennis comics have been getting adapted into TV series with like the edges sanded off.
01:42:31
Keith
Yeah.
01:42:31
Derek
And to be fair, they're Garth Eddis comics, so usually for the better for that. But like there is the one fear that somebody is gonna do that with Trans Metropolitan. And I just don't think that Trans Metropolitan having its edges sanded off works quite the same way as like the Boys, you know, or Preacher in terms of making it a more palatable. Like it's just too gonzo, it's too weird. I don't know that the spirit survives. So let this be a weird 60 issue series that real die hard comic book freaks can dive into and find, you know.
01:43:19
Case
Yeah, I, you know, I think that the ending for, for what it is, like, it's an effective conclusion with the character that we have had this whole time. You know. You know, we have said the Bugs Bunny thing since really our conversation about volume two. We, we have said Bugs Bunny repeatedly to describe him. And that sort of puckish figure at the end where he gets to be one upped on the audience as well. I, I think fits the character and fits the mood that they were trying to do for the series. But, but Keith, I agree with you in terms of like, is that necessarily the best payoff for the whole series? I don't know. I don't know. If you, if you don't like it, they, you could just end one issue earlier and just like say that he Died.
01:44:11
Derek
I also, like, especially on my reread of the series, there's a point early on where I decided that I was going to view Trans Metropolitan as not a literal portrayal of itself. Right. Like it's so out there and so exaggerated that there's an interesting exercise in reading Trans Metropolitan as if Spider himself is an unreliable narrator. Right. And that the, the imagery, the consumerism are amped up to 13. Because that's the way Spider would tell the story through his misanthropy.
01:45:01
Keith
Right.
01:45:04
Derek
And you know, I'm not saying that's the intention is that what you're seeing is not a literal portrayal of the series, but I do think that if you go in thinking of this, the entire thing is being tainted by Spiders particular like anti social cynical point of view that you get a very interesting reading out of it.
01:45:32
Case
I mean it certainly becomes way more gonzo.
01:45:35
Derek
Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, because again like it's like reading Hunter S. Thompson's own writing so often was so hyper exaggerated through his own misanthropy. So you read it that way and you go, okay, they're not literally selling piss in soda can bottles. You're not literally buying.
01:45:54
Case
Ebola cola or any of these.
01:45:55
Derek
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But it's the way that Spider would tell it, you know, and in that way like the ending becomes kind of the exaggeration that Spider would.
01:46:09
Case
Want to tell in terms of the finale. Like I remember when this issue came out and like it was.
01:46:17
Derek
Like, like.
01:46:19
Case
It was a fun moment for the character. Like obviously we've got the whole arc leading up to it and you know, the takedown of the President, I think is like we said before, it's cathartic. You know, it's, you know, a fantasy that someone could just single handedly take a president down even though there is real world precedent, you know, like there is comparison with like Nixon for example, but just the idea that we could have someone in power have their comeuppance is so refreshing. Like it just feels so good that.
01:47:02
Derek
First almost quaint to think, yeah, like scandal could bring down a president. Right. But you want to believe that like you said, it's simultaneously power fantasy and also like escapism again, now that we've.
01:47:18
Keith
Finished it is uncomfortable. You know what I mean? With. And the idea of like hey, it could be the Czech is really tempting, but unfortunately the real world, we underestimate or Ellis underestimated the stupidity of Americans.
01:47:33
Derek
So yeah, it's really fucked to say Warren Ellis might have been too optimistic. That's dark.
01:47:43
Case
Yeah, but. But it's true. So why don't we look at what is kind of an awkward thing about the nature of the way they collected the. The totality of the run here, which is that we have the prose essays from the I Hate It Here book that was released. Not like before the, before the book was over, but I don't remember where it fell. It's just like. So like this is the book within the book that. That Spider did with. Accompanied by art pieces by all kinds. Like just the whole gamut of like, who's who artists on this whole thing. I don't, I, I don't think we need to go over every single essay here. There's, yeah. Interesting details in terms of like, the chronology that they're sort of presenting. They, they are setting up something of a.
01:48:43
Case
Of a mapping out to like, the run of the story. Because these are theoretically the columns that he was writing over the course of the. The like of the run of the book.
01:48:52
Keith
Right.
01:48:55
Case
So I mean, some of these are fun. I, I find that the. The funeral scene for the transients is a really interesting one in terms of establishing the character as being sympathetic to it all. Like, we, you know, at the very end he says that. That they all stopped to thank him because he only let 100 of them die. And we talked about like, the nature of like, him being at the riot. Like he wasn't directly intervening and stopping anyone from getting hurt by cops. Like it was ultimately that, like, his work stopped the majority of people from getting hurt. Like he did the most good by the way that he did it. But it still wasn't, you know, direct action. Like he still was describing violence that he was witness to as opposed to intervening on the. On behalf of the violence.
01:49:50
Keith
Yeah, yeah, they were definitely interesting to go through those.
01:49:58
Derek
I will, I will need to. Because I, I, like I said before we started, I actually did not get around to reading the two collections of the. Of the prosecutor, so. And like, the thing is, I think I would very much enjoy it had I pieced together that's what that was. Because I liked the couple of individual chapters that were effectively just like a column by Spider, you know, circling around a theme. But I was dumb and I didn't.
01:50:32
Case
Yeah, well, and like I said, it's like an awkward way that. That it's included here because these were published as like separate books somewhere during the run of the main series. I do also want to shout out the we live in a monoculture speech is one that I, I remember perpetually. It's just one of those ones that stand out where Spider just talks about how like, yeah, you go out in any city and you can go and get like in his. In this scenario they're talking about like Long Pig and like all the fictional stores that. But in the real world it's like, yeah, you can go to McDonald's anywhere and like get the exact same meal. Like I remember being in Rome and getting Domino's pizza.
01:51:10
Keith
Like, I love the Buddha statue holding the McDonald's burger. Yeah, it's like, wow, there's. I will say, like there's some really like, as this is not a part of the main story, some really great art in this. Yeah, yeah, it's great art that like a lot of people might not see. You know what I mean? That's the weird thing if you don't read it.
01:51:32
Case
Right. So that is a little bit of homework for you.
01:51:38
Derek
Yeah, absolutely.
01:51:39
Case
Yeah. But, but yeah, I mean, so these are fun columns. Like we get a few interesting spots. Like for example, when he explains that he now has two assistants, there is a, a moment there where I think the timing doesn't quite map out correctly to when he actually gets Shannon versus when Vita gets killed. But it's still there.
01:52:05
Case
There's interesting prose columns in here that especially coming from the perspective of having just reread the whole series a whole bunch of times for this, seeing how these columns like the story that they're telling by way of having a bunch of columns and like being able to infer like, oh, this happened roughly around this issue here versus this issue here is sort of a fun aside, but like it's mostly an excuse for like really good art and like some additional world building details about the universe of Trans Metropolitan.
01:52:37
Keith
Yeah, no, I really liked it. I thought it was an interesting like, addendum. Yeah.
01:52:41
Case
Yes. Like I said, it's awkward that it's positioned just at the end of the book. Like it. If you're reading it in the revised Trades collection that they present on the DC Universe app, it's like, it's fine to read it last, but it's just a weird order thing. It like. And I get why they didn't want to like interrupt the flow because like, if you're reading it in the volumes, this doesn't Necessarily, like, correspond. Like, I'm guessing the. I hate it here because it's. I hate it here. And then what is it?
01:53:18
Derek
Filth of the city.
01:53:19
Case
Filth of the city. Like, I hate it here. Like, must have, you know, corresponded to, like, X date when it was published. But it. It doesn't. Like, the columns don't match up because it's already a collection of columns from a previous point in the story. So I get why it's at the end, but it is like, kind of just like an awkward insert there because you're like, yeah, I finished Trans Metropolitan. Oh, here's some supplemental material.
01:53:43
Keith
Yeah, exactly.
01:53:43
Derek
Especially after that very definitive ending.
01:53:47
Case
Yes.
01:53:48
Derek
Like, I think that's a part of the reason why I didn't really bother reading those two because I was like, I'm. I'm good. And I'm kind of against. More Trans Metropolitan a bit. Like, I kind of. This is. This is it. This is the thing. And I don't want trans metropolitan 2. Trans metropolitan origins, Trans Metropolitan, the series. Like, I'm good, you know, and this kind of felt like I didn't know how long after the publication of the original series these were made, but I could tell it was extra features.
01:54:24
Case
So, yeah, it wasn't after it, but it was extra features that were just, like, published concurrently.
01:54:30
Derek
That's less blasphemous.
01:54:34
Case
Yeah. All right, so we have finally come to the end of our story. Keith, how are you feeling about the overall experience here?
01:54:43
Keith
Worthwhile experience. I'm glad we did it. I enjoyed quite a bit about it. I'm going to take away a lot too. Like, a lot of really good memories of the book. Obviously, we, you know, if you listen to the other episodes, you know, there's moments that I was like. But overall, I think I really enjoyed it. I thought it was very well done. And yeah, I think, like we said, it's a complete narrative. I think it does wrap up. I. I'm the most positive comic book reviewer on the planet. You know, like, I. I never really crap on anything, but that's not me just being nice. I liked it. It was fun. I love. Well, I guess I should say episode one.
01:55:27
Keith
My thesis statement was basically like, I can tell the parallels to where we're at right now, but also the fact that journalism is one of the most important things to me. So this scratched both of those itches. So. Yeah, it did really well. Yeah.
01:55:45
Case
Nice, nice. Now, now, Derek, you joined us for. Because you did a reread of this whole thing. How was your experience of this whole ride.
01:55:57
Derek
So look, there's elements of it that don't age well, right? Like, I'm sure that got touched on through earlier episodes. There are, I can be pretty forgiving of and still at times even enjoy like some dumb edgelord stuff. You know, I, I'm not as bothered. Obviously, by now Warren Ellis has received his fair share of deserved criticism, you know, over his relationships with women, you know, but like, I'm capable of sitting down and going like, all right, let me see what this comic's got in store for me. And I mostly had a good time, but I did have to constantly be like this bit didn't age well, right? Like the titties, the long pig, the. The two headed cat pissing on things. All that's fine. It's mostly like there's some language, right?
01:56:51
Derek
There's some language that's really not acceptable anymore that was really like, broadly considered less offensive at the time. The thing is, like, I think that all of the stuff that made me go was pretty easy to move past in the grand scheme of things because it was so, like, few and far between and so like, easy to isolate and like cordon off from the rest of what I'm reading. But like, I have sort of a nostalgia for. Really the biggest thing is there's a nostalgia for feeling that way about journalism, that journalism is like, important and journalism will save us. And I have to admit, like, my experiences working in local news really brought a lot of cynicism to me on that front.
01:57:46
Derek
Heartbreaking as that is to say, you know, I left a lot of my love for the Fourth Estate behind when I left the industry, right? And, you know, there's this little part of me that still wants the Aaron Sorkin moment though, you know, and this was, what if one mad bastard of a journalist could change everything just by speaking truth to power mean enough. And I think that, that acid is cathartic. I think cathartic is the word we've used a couple of times, and I think it's the best word possible. It's cathartic to read and feel like maybe, just maybe if we do it right, this could matter in real life too.
01:58:42
Case
Yeah, I think that's a really good description of the series and of this.
01:58:48
Derek
Whole endeavor not to ignore that. There's just a lot of fun in reading the series. Like Spider and Channon and Yelena are a great trio of characters that are a lot of fun to read. You know, the hijinks are good, the crazy capers and the. That they pull off to. To score a story and pin some to the wall. It's good drama.
01:59:16
Case
Yeah, I, I had a lot of fun doing this reread. As I've mentioned. I've ended up rereading this a bunch of times because I, I, because I just started and then read it when we started and then I've periodically just been like, well, I just, I'll. I guess I'll just finish the series again as we've done rereads throughout this whole thing. So it's been really, it's been really cool coming back to it and experiencing it and seeing like the warts and all of the series. You know, like the limitations of the creative team at the time. You know, like it's, we're talking about guys in their 20s, like venting about politics in the world and like there's an optimism to the nihilism that is going on with us all that, you know, is just a different kind of feeling than you.
02:00:07
Case
You can muster in your 40s. Like, it's just. Yeah, but it's a lot of fun and I, I'm really glad that I did this journey. Keith. I'm really glad that you and I were able to look at this together.
02:00:21
Keith
Yeah, definitely. It's being. This is the first time I've read it. You know, like it's been a ride. Definitely.
02:00:30
Case
Yeah. So we've got one more installment of this. We're going to do a series wrap up with Derek Robertson. So that is going to be really cool. The. I'm going to be extremely delirious when we do this recording because we are on the precipice of my second child being born. So that is just weird timing on all that on that front. But I, I am so glad that we got to go through this whole series. Derek, I'm so glad that you were here to chat about it. Keith, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you want to cover before we wrap this up?
02:01:15
Keith
I think there's something. Okay. I said I don't want to talk about unless I had something to say. I said it before the show, but I just noticed something. So in the last scene, Channon specifically says when Yelena walks away, she thinks I don't know what they do when I'm not around.
02:01:32
Case
Yes.
02:01:34
Keith
And that I think leans into my thought, my theory and I'll just drop it out there that I Think in that shot, Yelena's very early on in her pregnancy because it's speculated online. I just checked, like, there's speculation about that.
02:01:51
Derek
I thought she was just a little thick.
02:01:52
Keith
Yeah, no, don't get me wrong. But like, yeah, no, I was. I was sitting here looking at it and I'm like, there's people like, no, that's pretty much accepted canon by a lot of people. And I'm like, interesting. But I just. I just wanted to. Because we talked about it, I wanted to make sure to address that. Other than that, no, I don't have anything else to talk about. I. Again, I loved the characters, you know, I think it's been a lot of fun and yeah, more. More cyberpunk for me. Always. I love cyberpunk. So.
02:02:19
Case
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Yeah, so just. Just a dope series and a dope time reading along on this whole thing. So on that note, Derek, where can people find you and follow you? What have you got going on? Think you know. Thank you for going on for being here, man.
02:02:38
Keith
Yeah.
02:02:38
Derek
Oh, thank you for having me, as always. Always, always a blast. So you can find me out on the open interwebs on Blue Sky. Derek Van Dyke, BSKY Social. I'm on a couple of podcasts of my own. I've been running Castle Bravo, a Godzilla verse retrospective for a while. Case you've been on a couple episodes of that. Maybe on more episodes coming up. Possibly some other CPOV hosts have been on the show as well. It's a fantastic, very funny but, like, historic look at how Godzilla grew as a franchise and kind of the context behind, you know, the progression of that as a film series. Also, by the time this episode posts, I should have my new show out, Pixel Spectrum, which is a new gaming focus show for me. Very like, conversational interview format.
02:03:37
Derek
I'm kind of at this point trying to keep it as more focused on, like the conversations I have with guests than trying to be specifically like a topical news podcast like people have been used to be doing in the gaming space up until now. But yeah, so you can find me on bluesky. You can also listen to Castle Bravo and Pixel Spectrum on whatever podcast app you enjoy using.
02:04:02
Case
Keith, how about you? Where can people find you and follow you?
02:04:04
Keith
Yeah, well, I am the host of weekly Comic Book Review podcast. We have issues on the certain POV network, so that's the best place to check out what I'm working on. The best place to get that Information is on BlueSkyEHeaveissues. BSky Social. You can also follow me at KeithHasissues BSky Social personally and on Instagram. We have we have issues pod because someone stole my name. Other than that, the best place to find me right now is on the Discord because I am on there every day and I think Case is going to tell you a little bit more about it in a moment.
02:04:34
Case
Yeah, the CPOV Discord is a great place to come interact with us. You can find a link in our show notes or on the website certainpov.com like as Keith said, just a great place to interact with all three of us. Frankly we are all pretty frequent people in the Discord server and it is a good old time. Otherwise you, if you want to find me and you don't want to do the Discord thing, you can find me on most social media platforms at Case Aiken with the exception of Instagram where I'm holding on 4 dear life to my aim screen name from high school which is quetzalcoatl5q u e t Z A L C o a T L5 because I was a pretentious nerd in high school as evidenced by the fact that I was obsessed with Trans Metropolitan in high school.
02:05:17
Case
There we go. You can support the show by checking out the Patreon for the network. So if you, even if you just support at the free tier it's just awesome having people signed up for the Patreon. I do two essays a week. One on a nerdy topic, one on a D and D topic. And you can find that@ patreon.com certainpovmedia but if you contribute at a paid tier we'll appreciate you even more. And if you contribute at the executive producer level, you get a shout out at the end of our podcast. And so I want to thank a couple of people which includes Micah McCaw, Carter Hallett, Sean Muir Lee, Gregor Memento Young, Logan Crowley, Joe Mastropiero, Casey and Nancy Aiken, Adam Sampter and Bum Bum. Keith Latinen.
02:06:08
Keith
Yay.
02:06:10
Case
If you want to be awesome like them, you can join at the executive producer level and you will get shout outs. But otherwise, like I said, even at the free tier we still appreciate you and we're putting out good value. So check out that Patreon. Otherwise, like I said, we've got one more episode of this where we're going to talk about the series as a whole now that Keith has actually read it, which is a big step forward in our conversations. That we can possibly have.
02:06:36
Keith
Yes.
02:06:37
Case
And we will be doing that with one of the creators of the book. So tune in next time for that. Derek, again, thank you for coming on.
02:06:45
Derek
Thank you for having me, Keith.
02:06:47
Case
Thank you for this journey.
02:06:49
Keith
Of course, sir. Anytime.
02:06:50
Case
This has been the Word from tomorrow. Have a great week.
02:07:02
Keith
Foreign.
02:07:19
Case
Certainpov.com.