Episode 85 - Superman For All Seasons with JD Martin and Angela "Bones" Bullock

Take a look back at the formative years of the Man of Tomorrow, as JD and Angela join Case and Jmike for a chat about Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale's landmark series, Superman For All Seasons!

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⏱️ YouTube Chapters

00:00 – Intro: The Most Wholesome Superman Story?
00:48 – Meet the Guests

01:29 – What Superman: For All Seasons Is (And Why It Matters)
03:14 – Superman on TV: Superman & Lois Talk

07:10 – First Impressions & Superman Origins

📘 The Story Breakdown

14:32 – Spring: Smallville, Pa Kent & Clark’s Fear
22:50 – The Tornado & Learning Limits

35:39 – Summer: Lois Lane Meets Superman
39:04 – Submarine Rescue & Lex Luthor Enters

50:00 – Fall: Lex vs Superman (Things Get Dark)
58:42 – Toxin’s Death & Superman’s Failure

59:32 – Winter: Returning to Smallville
01:05:44 – Lana Lang & What Clark Left Behind
01:12:46 – The Flood & Saving the Town

🧠 Themes & Wrap-Up

01:21:34 – Lex Luthor, Power & Real-World Parallels
01:26:51 – Why Superman Still Matters

01:28:04 – Final Thoughts

🎙️ Outro

01:31:53 – Guest Plugs & Where to Find Them
01:35:55 – Credits

Transcription

00:00
Case
This book is a. An attempt at doing the most wholesome Superman story you can in the 90s, where that was kind of a challenge because people didn't want to do that back then. Like, they wanted to be like, superman died. He has a mullet now. He's electric blue. He's got all this stuff going for him. Hey, everyone, and welcome back to the Men of Steel podcast. I'm Case Aiken, and as always, I am joined by my co host, J. Mike Fson.

00:48
Jmike
Welcome back, everybody.

00:49
Case
Welcome back indeed. We're, we're. We're welcoming back some guests today, actually. Today we've got the host of the Fables and Reflections podcast. We've got Angela Bones. Bullock.

00:58
Bones
Hello. Hello.

00:59
Case
And we've got J.D.

01:00
JD
Martin. Whoa. Hey. I just dropped in here all of a sudden. What happened? I don't know where I was in my room, and all of a sudden I'm here in the. In the Men of Steel headquarters. This is trippy, man.

01:14
Case
Yeah. A recording Studio of solitude.

01:16
JD
Case, how did you do this?

01:18
Case
It involves the Phantom Zone.

01:20
JD
You can't scare me like that, man. I was peacefully in bed watching the YouTubes with a cat. Well, it's okay.

01:29
Case
You can go back to it immediately after we're done recording. We are in a timeless space, just like the timeless classic that we are here to talk about today. Because today we are talking about the formative work of Superman. Superman for all seasons.

01:43
Bones
Bravo segue. 11 Out of 10.

01:48
Case
Are we gonna count down from that one Little pre roll humor there.

01:52
Jmike
Okay.

01:54
Case
Yeah. So today we're talking about Superman for all seasons, which is a Jeph Loeb Tim Sale piece. It's the one that they did after doing the Long Halloween, which is what most people know them for, but before they did all the Marvel color stuff, which is the other stuff people know them for. I feel like this is kind of like the lesser known piece. Even though it's. It's an often referenced work. It's just not the most famous of the. Of this duo's various collaborations.

02:17
Bones
Yeah, I mean, this is where the. I like your costume. Thanks. My mom made it came from.

02:23
JD
Yep. Yeah. I love, and I love that panel was. Was going. Making the rounds when that scene like went like, just caused a storm on Twitter. A nice storm.

02:34
Bones
Yep. Yeah. From the Superman and Lois pilot, which.

02:37
JD
I still have not watched.

02:40
Case
Oh, it's very nice.

02:42
Bones
Season. Season one is really great. I was. If I didn't just Marathon Peacemaker before this, I would have watched Naomi and season two premiere.

02:53
JD
I have a problem with TV shows. There are so. And I think it's now. I've now discovered a different reason as opposed to. I just have a problem with sitting down and watching 40 minute shows. I think it all has to do with the fact that there's just so much that I want to watch and I have a very hard time choosing which one I want to get to first.

03:14
Jmike
Yeah.

03:14
Case
Oh, absolutely.

03:16
Bones
I have a literal checklist of movies and TV on my phone and what apps to find them on.

03:22
JD
I should do that. I should. And yet I don't. Instead I'm just like. I will peruse like streaming app after streaming app until I find something. Or I'll just randomly grab something off my shelf.

03:33
Case
Fair. I would. I would say Superman Lois is a. A good series to check out. I really liked the premiere of this season. We're the night we're recording. This is when episode two drops. Which so obviously none of us have any idea what that looks like. But, but season one is, I think, a lot of fun. It probably could have been like two episodes shorter, but it was still a lot of fun. We get one of the. The best visions of like a classic looking Superman cartoon with Tyler Hoechlin wearing the, like wearing the Fleischer suit. Yeah, exactly. Right there. While doing the line from this. And. And that's a great exposition because it is taking wholesome qualities of Superman from throughout time and like melding it together. This book is a.

04:15
Case
An attempt at doing the most wholesome Superman story you can in the 90s where that was kind of a challenge because people didn't want to do that back then. Like they wanted to have you. Like Superman died. He has a mullet now. He's electric blue. He's got all this stuff going for him.

04:32
JD
Never forget electric blue.

04:33
Case
Superman never.

04:35
Bones
And electric red at the same time that there was. There was two electric supermen that were both neon.

04:43
JD
Yep.

04:44
Case
And they would get into arguments about who was the real one.

04:47
JD
Not.

04:47
Case
Not happening here. This is way more straightforward.

04:49
Bones
You know. Yeah.

04:51
Case
So this work is done in the same way that the Long Halloween. You know, again, it's. It's Jeff L. And Tim Sale. Like they made a name for themselves doing a story that is essentially a direct sequel to Batman Year One. And this is actually kind of like a. A midquel series to the man of Steel miniseries by John Byrne. It starts with him the same way the first issue of man of Steel starts with him in his high school days. And so it does. The origin story of Superman and Then it picks up as he's like, integrating himself into Metropolis and so forth. And so arguably each of these issues kind of fits in between issues of the man of Steel comic.

05:30
Case
So you can kind of see that this is sort of their jam, like, doing these, like, these untold tales of the characters in play. Which means that this is a very particular time because the 90s had, like, it's a strict continuity of. This is like Mon Pa Kent are alive. Lex Luthor is a businessman who looks like Donald Trump. Like, that's where we're at in. Throughout this whole thing. Like, Lana Lang knows who Superman is.

05:54
Bones
The Trump comparison I thought of in particular, where there's eventually a gag where Superman moves fast and so, like, his Lex's hat gets blown off and like, his comb over gets over. And it's just like, you know that. Just like burning Lex inside. Like, not even that, like, Superman emasculated him in another way in terms of, like, saving Lois in that scene. But the fact that he, like, also with his hair at the same time and made him look like an idiot.

06:29
Jmike
I hope he did it on purpose. Be great.

06:31
Case
Yeah. And of course, the name is of the series in homage to A Man for All Seasons. The. The classic theatrical work. So, you know, we're. We're having a lot of fun here just in terms of, like, let. Let's do some stuff there. It's four issues. Each one is named after a season, and each one has kind of a vibe of that season. You know, we. We start with springtime and things are good. Life is beginning. Superman is very much. He's in high school at this point. He's graduating high school and figuring out what he's going to do with his life. And then it follows, you know, his first couple years out there with each one getting a little bit shittier, until eventually we get to winter and he has to deal with all that. But, but here's a question for y'.

07:10
JD
All.

07:10
Case
So I read this when it came out. Hadn't really touched it in a while, but, like, I read it back then. Had you guys read it? What did you know about it if you hadn't? Where, like, where are we coming from in terms of. Of information here? J, Mike, let's start with you.

07:24
JD
Me?

07:24
Jmike
I get to go first?

07:25
JD
Yeah,.

07:27
Case
I like to put you on the spot like that.

07:29
Jmike
Oh, man. I had heard about this, but I had never really gotten around to reading it. And I was pleasantly surprised. I was not expecting, like, this really down to earth, really calm, nice story. Because in the Superman, you're thinking more of action adventure stuff, but this is really down to earth, like, homie. Yeah, Yeah. I was like, oh, this is great. I like this.

07:58
Bones
This is great.

07:59
Case
I enjoyed this. Nice. Angela, how familiar were you with it?

08:05
Bones
I read it probably over 10 years ago in trade from my local library. It was one of the first Superman comics that, like, helped me become, comma, Superman fan. Like, in middle school, I had read Death of Superman, which is very, like. It was especially, like, being a middle schooler, like that 90s setting of like. Yeah, it's like builders be destroyed and like, life and death and. Yeah, it.

08:37
Case
Like extreme heroism is giving your life for someone.

08:41
Bones
Yeah, yeah, exactly. But then, like, I read this in, like, late. Then read this in, like, late high school, early college age. And, like, it was like, oh, like, this is like the. It's pretty much the antithesis of, like, that bullshit Kill Bill quote where it's like, Clark Kent is Superman's critique of the entire human race. And it's like, no, like, he. He just is Clark.

09:15
JD
Like, he's a good boy.

09:17
Bones
Yeah, he is. He is a boy from Kansas.

09:21
JD
There's a reason why Bill dies at the end of that movie. Spoilers for a movie that is from 2004.

09:26
Bones
Yeah, well. Well, also. Well, it's also the. It's also the stated goal of the title is to kill Bill.

09:35
JD
This is true. This is true.

09:37
Bones
But, yeah, very much put me on the track of, like, becoming as big of a Superman fan as I am. Like, I still haven't read, like, a super lot in terms of, like, the backlog, but I was picking up the new 52 titles when they were coming out for, like, the first year and a half.

09:58
Case
Well, that's a mix right there.

10:01
Bones
Yeah. And then I started picking it up with Bendis, took over with the man of Steel miniseries.

10:13
Case
He did the new man of Steel miniseries. That. Yeah, this is not a bit. J.D. How about you? When. When did you first read it? What's like. What was your perception going into it?

10:23
JD
Like, I first read it this morning. This morning. So I had to remember because. Because working nights, my. My schedule gets real weird. And I can. When I read. When I. When I did things anymore, time is a lake. But I. So, yeah, I woke up, you see. When did. I woke up? Last night.

10:48
Case
I woke up late.

10:48
JD
Pretty late last night. And yeah, I think I read it.

10:52
Case
Went.

10:52
JD
When I woke up. So it's about. About 1:00am this morning that I read it. And here's the thing. So I think it's funny that this is now the fourth time I've been on the show, but this is the first time we're actually reading a Superman comic. And with this, I kind of want to talk a little bit about my history with Superman in that my own, like, my first introduction to Superman was the cart was the Justice League cartoon, which I think is like an introduction that a lot of people might share. And moving on from that, it was the animated stuff. I mean, my first appearance here was talking about the Crisis on True Earths movie. That was an early one. But one of my first introductions solo Superman, similar to Angela, was the animated adaptation of the Death of Superman, Doomsday.

11:46
JD
And then moving on from there. I would eventually get to certain comics, and this is one that just. I never got to for some reason. It was always one that was there. And, like, it's like, considered like, one of, like, the top three Superman miniseries that is considered great and is a perfect introduction to Superman. It's a perfect encapsulation of who and what Superman is and what he represents. And for some reason, I just never got to it. And then the call came out of, like, hey, you know, Superman for all seasons.

12:24
Case
What.

12:24
JD
How does that sound? And I was like, finally an excuse to read this comic that I've been meaning to read for, like, the past five to six years. And here we are, And I read it, and I love it. It's probably my favorite Jeph Loeb thing I've ever read. I love the. Like you mentioned earlier, with each issue, each one being set during a different season and taking after that certain season. I love that even when, as you mentioned, the series starts to take a much darker turn, especially in the third issue taking place during fall, even when it gets dark, Superman is still like a. And even when he starts to get. He starts to doubt himself a little bit and doubt his abilities as a superhero, you still feel Clark there.

13:14
JD
You still feel that he's like, he's not going to be stuck in that rut for very long. You know, that he is. He, like, being who he is, being the person who was raised by Jonathan and Martha Kent, he is going to persevere, and he is eventually going to be the Superman that we all need, who is just Clark Kent in a blue and red and gold costume.

13:42
Case
Yeah. I mean, this is very much a series that is about Superman's roots. And, like, I think that's appropriate. Like, Jeph Loeb was like, a. One of the people behind Smallville as a show. Like, that's when he's, like, started making his break into TV production. And, like, this is a series that feels very much like, yeah, we're going to talk about Smallville, and we're going to talk about how it's had a lasting impact on Superman throughout the years. So, like, that. I think that's really appropriate. Yeah. All right. Well, I feel like we got a good spread in terms of association here.

14:11
Bones
Yeah. And since we're also talking about the different feel of each issue, one thing that I really like about it is each issue is narrated by someone different.

14:22
JD
Yeah.

14:23
Bones
And as such, you then examine Superman from different angles because you're looking at it through different people's eyes.

14:32
Case
Yeah. So why don't we get started with the first issue then, which is narrated by Pa Kent.

14:36
Bones
It probably has one of my favorite moments in that issue personally, which is when Pa Kent is tilling the field and a rock hits the till. So he's got to get out. And he's trying to. He's got the leverage, trying to get it up and everything. And Clark comes over and kind of cheekily, you know, says, oh, you need some help, Pa? And then just picks up the rock just with his bare head, like, not hands, hand, just.

15:11
Case
Yeah, plop. Yeah, he just palms it.

15:14
Bones
Yeah, he just palms the. This boulder. And you just. There's all this emotion that you see from the pacing that Jeph Loeb writes, but then also, like, the expression that Tim Sale gives Pa where it's like, he's slightly emasculated because, like, he's getting older. But then also, like, there's this worry for his son because it's like, you know, no parent wants, like. Like, parents want, like, extraordinary kids, but not really, like, not too extraordinary to, like, stick out and, like, be weird.

15:51
JD
This is a bit much for Paul.

15:53
Bones
Yeah, yeah.

15:55
Case
Well. And this is contemporary with, like, the. In the first issue of man of Steel, where he, like, Superman is a football star and Pa is like, I am so disappointed in you for being the star of the team. Like, you're, like, you're. You're just showing off at this point. And I think this is, like. This is a perfect microcosm of that without having to do, like, the weird John Byrne. Like, of course he'd be, like, big man on campus. Kind of, like, revisionist history that went into that series here. It feels much more like, oh, yeah, that's. That's the Clark we know showing off just, like, a little bit. And, like, Paul being disappointed in that part. Like, reminding him to, like, calm the down.

16:34
Bones
I think it's just, like, a reminder because, like, the next scene is he's talking to Ma Kent, and he's just, like. He keeps getting stronger. Like, there's a. There's a teeny bit of fear of, like, did we raise him good enough? Like, is he just going to murder everyone? Like, there's a. There's the tediest bit of fear in their discussion.

17:00
Case
Yeah. With that great panel of Pa Kent looking out into the horizon, and his glasses are just reflecting the stars of the night as he says, he's changing the boy. He's different now. And, like, you get that vibe of just, like.

17:13
JD
Yep.

17:13
Case
He, like you can see the infinite possibilities that are ahead. And, like, so many of them are dangerous.

17:20
Bones
Yep.

17:21
JD
Well, what I love is that following that, we then have a beautiful scene between. All right, I think it's right. I think it's not long after the scene where we have Paw and Clark standing in the field, and Clark just admits. He just says, paw. I'm. I'm afraid. I'm afraid. I'm scared. I'm scared of, like, what?

17:43
Case
That's a little bit later.

17:44
JD
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

17:46
Case
He's.

17:46
JD
But he's like. I was like, I'm afraid of, like, what this power that I have can do and can turn me into. But. But, you know, and it's a. It's a rightful fear, you know, when you. When you are that different, when you are raised in a small town, when you're raised with. With, you know, quote unquote, simple values, and you discover that, you know, you can. You can. You can palm a boulder and just move it. You can fly. You can look through a wall and you have soup and you can hear from another building. Like, that's scary. And you have to think about, like, well, like, what is that going to do to me as a human being? What is that going to do to me? What is that going to. How is that going to change my value of human existence?

18:46
JD
He's having an existential crisis as a teenager, which should not happen. But thankfully, his parents are there going, it's okay to be afraid. It's. It's okay. It's natural because you're going through a mate. You're a change that no one else has ever. No one else had. Has gone through.

19:03
Case
So, yeah, very much is trying to be like, the support structure for Clark. You know, we, like, right before that, we get the shot of the, like, them all at the dinner table, and, like, Ma can't serving pa. And it's such, like, Norman Rockwell, like, Thanksgiving kind of, like, tribute right there.

19:18
Bones
Literally. Literally. The. Literally. The layout, like, you have.

19:21
Case
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Like. Like holding the pot roast and stuff.

19:24
Bones
Yeah, yeah.

19:25
Case
And then so the, like, Clark is, like, feeding the dog, and that's such, like, a nice bit there. And we get, like, a little bit with, like, Clark and Lana, like, showing how she's part of his support structure. He, like, says, like, who else would I tell if something was wrong? But he doesn't feel comfortable talking about it because then we get all these scenes in town where, like, you said, like, you know, we established he knows everyone. There's all these traditions. Everyone knows everyone's parents.

19:49
Jmike
It's.

19:49
Case
It's this small town where they all are supporting each other, but Clark is starting to feel weird. He goes to get a haircut, and we get him seeing through the mirror and, like, through the wall and hearing the conversation in the building next door. And we get the classic Superman shot, like, from the, like, the old Jerry Siegel, Joe Shuster stuff where they go to cut his hair and it breaks. Like, that's so perfect.

20:13
Bones
Disintegrate.

20:15
Case
Yeah. And, like, no one thinks too much about it because. Yeah.

20:17
JD
Like, the little moment right after is they have. It's like the, you know, like, the local barber is someone who would always get. Get into the business. And then the cop comes up behind him and is. And it's like. And like. And the local cop is someone who just thinks that everyone should just mind their own business.

20:32
Case
I just noticed that the barber's name is Sam Wilson, so. Hi, Sam from our network. Also, hi, the Falcon.

20:40
JD
Yeah, I was going to say it was like, also, hi, Captain America.

20:44
Case
Yeah, we get a tribute to the Superman running faster than the train bit from Superman 78, which is also fun to have.

20:52
JD
And that wonderful panel of him, like, jumping in front, jumping across the train tracks in front of it. I love that panel.

20:57
Case
Yeah. And that's. That's where we get Clark, like, bonding with his dad, saying he's scared because we get that. We get to see his experience of it. You know, like, I went off on Twitter when I was, like, doing this reread about how, like, I think one of the things about Superman as. As the first superhero is that, like, he doesn't have anything to reference. Like, this is theoretically 90s DC where, like, there were the, like, the Justice Society and all. All those things before. So, like, it's, you know, kind of makes that less work. But they don't talk about any of that here. Like, the idea of superpowers doesn't really come up.

21:29
Case
Like, in a world where there are no superpowered beings, it seems so much more impossible and scary than in a world where there are mutants and metahumans and, like, all these other things. Things already existing, you know, like, the idea that Superman would have no idea that other people could be like him at the time would be terrifying and would be like, this big shaping moment for him where it's like, what the hell? Like, we looked at miracle man where, like, the whole premise is like, well, what if all these comic books, like, there was a real thing like, that happened in the real world? And, like, how scary is that? And it's real scary.

22:04
Bones
Yeah, because it's this ultimate trust in, like. I mean. I mean, what Paul. What pockin has to. Has to do, which is like, okay, like, I know this person that's underneath these powers. And, like, I have to trust that, like, I raised my son right. I mean, just like any, like, parent has to when they release them into the world. It just so happens he can literally change the course of rivers.

22:31
Case
But he doesn't know it yet. Because this issue, I mean, I think a big thing throughout this is that the. The force of nature is one of the things that Clark is very much at odds against. Like, how much can he actually do? How much can he actually change the course of a river? So the big threat of this issue is a tornado because it's Kansas. Like, that just makes sense, right?

22:50
Jmike
I got kind of nervous when I saw the tornado. I was like, oh, what's going to happen here? These usually don't end very well for anybody.

22:58
Case
Well, it is very well for. For the one guy who he flies and covers as the. The gas station gets hit and just explodes completely. But I think it's a really telling moment here because Clark, for the first time, he. He acts without disguising himself. Like, the. The tornado itself is sufficient to make anything that he does, like, be like, oh, shit thing. It looks like things were flying because of all the wind. But, you know, he. He's. He. No one really dies, but he still feels like he didn't do enough. And I think this is a much better version of that type of story Than what we got in man of steel, the movie, because he actually was like, he learns a lesson here that wasn't just like, gotta stay secret. Can't allow people to find out about my powers.

23:40
Case
My dad died to hammer that home here. He does his best and he tries.

23:46
JD
To like, and he succeeds.

23:47
Case
He saves lives. Like, like, people are. Are alive. That would not be if he had not been there. But their livelihoods are ripped apart.

23:57
Bones
Yeah. I mean, yeah, like, anything. Like, and they kind of show him, like, helping to build. And that also is kind of the question of Superman is, okay, like, what happens after which, like, later. Later on, that kind of gets explored a little bit more where he saves this one woman and then, like, Lex goes and finds her and, like, semi kidnaps her and then brainwashes her and then kills her in front of Superman.

24:27
JD
But also with her. With. With her, there's another thing. There's another layer to that, because even before Lex comes to her, she's already slightly obsessed.

24:37
Case
Yeah, we'll get. We'll get to that, though. Like, yeah, we're jumping too far ahead right now. Because I do like the stuff that's going on in this issue. Like, the stuff with the pastor. Pastor Linquist. Like, I. I have made a lot of jokes about organized religions and so forth. Like, I. I was brought up, like, hardcore Catholic and, like, have had a lot of issues with hardcore Catholicism. So, like, generally, I'm fairly dismissive of it. But these are good scenes because a character who is experiencing what is an impossible, supernatural, preternatural set of circumstances that he knows he can use for good would look to some kind of guidance, you know, like, again, in a world where there aren't superhumans, like, what else could explain some of this than just being, like, maybe God has a plan.

25:19
Case
And, like, if he's brought up in, like, you know, a Methodist community or whatever, like, that would have some impact on him. And I. I do like him trying to see himself as still being part of a bigger universe, you know, like, powers like Superman would really be mean. You would think, like, oh, I guess I. I should reshape the world and do all this crazy stuff because, like, look at me. I'm the. I'm the pinnacle of. Of achievement on this planet. But he's still. He still wants to believe that he's. He's part of a larger system. And, like, I do like that. I. I mean, I realized that past.

25:50
Case
Like, Pastor Lindquist, by virtue of not knowing about his powers, offers him advice as if he was a normal person, being like, I just feel so helpless when a tornado comes through, and it's like, no, I could have done more. Like, that's a big difference right there.

26:01
Bones
Yeah. Like, no, no, no. Like, you don't understand. Like, I could. I could have Hercules. This thing and like just take. Just gripped the bottom of the tornado and just whipped it over my head.

26:13
Jmike
What if he was born in a different community? What if he was born in an Amish community case? How would that, how would that have worked out?

26:21
Case
Probably about the same, but maybe, you know, maybe a little less.

26:24
Bones
There still is Rue Springer.

26:26
Case
Yeah. Well, so for JD and Angela, one of the episodes that just dropped before this and one that we just recorded this week was J Lay the Nail, wherein. Spoiler for JLA the nail. It's revealed that Kal El is brought up in an Amish community in there, which is one of the best things ever, if only for the beard. It's so good.

26:49
JD
I remember this story. Who, who worked on that one?

26:52
Case
That was Alan Davis.

26:54
JD
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense.

26:56
Case
Yeah. It's a book where everyone looks super because Alan Davis cannot draw a non attractive person.

27:02
JD
No, he is. I believe it was Connor Goldsmith over on Cerebro said that Alan Davis is probably the one straight man who can. Who makes like the most. Who can draw the most attractive men. And it's very true. It's very.

27:19
Case
Somehow he makes a Amish bearded Superman.

27:24
JD
I mean, it's possible, but just. I mean like when Alan Davis shows up, he just does. He just. He's going to outdo everyone.

27:31
Case
Right. It's. It's amazing.

27:32
Bones
You do also have in Kingdom Come where you have ponytailed Superman.

27:39
Case
That's less weird. I mean like mulleted Superman is a part of. As a staple of the 90s, frankly.

27:46
Bones
But. But to backtrack about the commentary on like religion. Well, I won't even say commentary because this doesn't. I'll never regret someone. Their faith because like, I believe it like helps people in like weird moments like Clark is in. If you use it to like, if you use it to help guide your life and like to be a better person, like, I feel like that's what it is for. That's what it should be used for. When you use it to subjugate and be like, no, I'm right. Then, you know, that's where you get into issues.

28:17
JD
You're messing up there, bruv.

28:19
Case
Yeah, yeah. The, the forceful evangelizing is usually the area where I have friction with say, family members who got me chapters of the Bible as my Christmas gifts this year. And I was like, no,.

28:32
JD
That's a big use.

28:34
Bones
I get, I get. I can go into more detail. Off mic.

28:37
Case
Yeah. So suffice to say, we all have complicated feelings. However, the I. The sentiment being expressed here I think is good because it's all like going back to that sort of community of support and perspective. Like, you know, no one here is a bad person. No one here is trying to impose their will over anyone. At worst, people are just trying to figure out the answers to bigger questions that they're being confronted with. And for some it's like, well, what is God's plan by virtue of putting a tornado in the way to destroy my town? And for others it's what is God's plan by way of putting a tornado in that I could have stopped in my town? Those are big questions. And I like that part of this growth of Superman.

29:19
Case
Like him as a person questioning his existence in a world that doesn't have anyone like him is goddamn terrifying. And it does a really good job of explaining, like, why that feels like such a burden on Clark. And the next scene, then he finally gets to share it with people. You know, we get the graduation and he reveals everything to Lana, a person who means more to him than anything. And they've set that up pretty well throughout this book so far. You know, we get a tribute to sort of the like the Superman 78, like flying with Lois scene here where they go for a fly and they actually get a kiss. And you're like 18 year old Clark Kent, like kissing the pretty redhead down the street. Like that's a pretty big moment.

29:57
Jmike
Like.

29:58
Bones
Yeah. And then she runs away. Yeah, yeah.

30:04
JD
And we'll get into, and we'll get into that in it when we get to issue four. But we still have to finish talking about this issue, right?

30:12
Case
Yeah, well, I mean, so we get, you know, we get like his send off, like as he goes off to like explore the world. And we get this like great shot of him and PA looking at the horizon. And I gotta tell you, like, that looks great. Like, my family's from Kansas. Like I have been out there for these like big, just completely flat Midwest sunsets. And they are truly magnificent. And nothing makes you feel smaller than to see just infinite sky all around you.

30:37
JD
I gotta tell you, I have a few pictures of west Texas skies. And they are gorgeous.

30:43
Bones
I mean, now that we don't get pretty sunsets. But like, I grew up very foresty area in like in the Piedmont region of Virginia, which is like very hilly, very wooded. And I've gone to the Midwest once. We drove for my brother's graduation from college and. Freaked me out. Couldn't do it. I was just. My reptilian brain is like where am I gonna hide?

31:13
JD
Where are all the trees?

31:14
Bones
Where's all the trees? Yeah, there's just fucking nothing.

31:18
JD
I can't climb. Something. I don't like it.

31:22
Case
When I was 22, I did a cross country road trip and like day like four or five of our Midwest drive towards California. We, were just like, I don't know if I can deal with like another majestic sunset. Like I've seen too much beauty at this point. I just need something.

31:35
JD
U getting overwhelmed by the beauty of the world.

31:39
Jmike
Yeah.

31:40
JD
I'm gonna be the comics person here. And, and you know, I, I feel as though like we always praise the writers and the artists. We don't give enough praise to colorists and letterers as they should get the praise they deserve. I want to shout out Bjarn Hanson, the colorist on this.

31:57
Case
Oh yeah, like, yeah, the. The sunset's a great example. Beautiful. Like watercolor style. I'm not sure if it's actually watercolor.

32:04
JD
I think it is. I believe he actually did watercolor this whole book. I believe.

32:07
Case
Yeah, I mean there's definitely some computer enhancements because like in the first scene with Clark coming out to see his dad, like, there's very much like 90s Photoshop where the plaid of his shirt is just a pattern overlaid on there. Like, and it's like, I didn't want to say anything bad about it because it's like, yeah, sure, it's 90s Photoshop. Whatever.

32:28
Bones
Yeah, just slap that on there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The coloring is amazing in terms of like the pencils. It's still very much, you could very much tell it's Tim Sale because like the hand is very similar to what he's. What he does in Long Halloween, but like less extreme. Like similar style but less extreme than in that Batman book.

32:56
Case
Yeah, this is a warmer book than all that. But then we get to Metropolis and we see a little bit kind of leading up to what we're gonna see. We get a glimpse of Clark working at the Planet. We get Lois running off to a date with Lex Luthor, which is looking back and being like, oh, right, they used to try to slip in sex references all the time where Lex is trying to come up with the. Come up with Lois in that scene. And then Superman flies by and gives her an easy out. And then we get the classic scene that we talked about already where the kid almost falls off a ledge. Which side note Metropolis. What the fuck's running around on ledges all over the Place.

33:36
Bones
This kid does this three more times. This kid just could not stay away from ledges.

33:47
Case
Yeah, I mean, I love like futurism kind of interpretations of cities where there's like skywalks everywhere and like, you know, like, it's just this dense, like multi layered kind of city kind of approach. I think that's so cool. The spots where they exist in the real world are awesome. New York doesn't really look like that except for like very specific blocks. Like certain other cities have like some of it because it's really cold in like Chicago and stuff. But like, but this is just like he's just running on a ledge chasing after a cat. Like, there's no guardrails, there's nothing.

34:20
Bones
Nope. It's like a three foot wide. Just a three foot wide access on the side of a building for some reason.

34:27
JD
And who is he chasing after? A damn cat. Yeah, because cats will fucking do that.

34:33
Case
Well, yes, of course the cat will do it and not care. In fact, the cat might be doing it on purpose. Who knows? But yeah, we get this classic my thanks my mom made it for me shot and it's so goddamn good.

34:45
Bones
No, yeah, it's very sweet. It's just like probably my favorite panel.

34:49
JD
In the whole comic, honestly.

34:50
Bones
Yeah, he's very much like, not like a derogatory way, but like Clark very much is like a mama's boy. Like, he'll, like, he'll, like, he'll, you know, he'll do whatever for his mama or like to, you know, talk her up and.

35:02
JD
Yeah, we definitely don't have any mama's boys on this current episode. Absolutely. No, we definitely don't have someone who will absolutely run over to their mother in public, hug them and kiss them on the cheek because they love them so much. Definitely not. And embarrass them. Definitely, definitely not.

35:21
Case
Definitely.

35:22
JD
I'm talking about me. I. I do that. I embarrass my mom in public.

35:29
Bones
Reverse.

35:31
Case
So moving on to the next issue, Summer, where this issue is told from the perspective of Lois Lane, the best.

35:39
JD
Character in all of comics.

35:41
Bones
Yeah. Is. Yeah. I, Yeah, I love her commentary where she's like just kind of like trying to wrap around her reporter's brain. Like she says the old adage, you know, like, believe only believe none of what you hear, half of what you read, messing up the percentages. But anyway, that she's just like, I can't reconcile this ad because like, I look at this dude fly. Like, but.

36:10
JD
And not only that, this is a strong man who is flying and he's using those abilities to help people because she is a reporter, she is a journalist. And you know, the unfortunate thing is when you're a journalist, you get to a point where you start to see the world through a cynical lens. And you will. And especially, you know, like she's around Lex Luthor all the time. Of course she's gonna fear that ways. But you know, because she sees, you know, the Lex Luthor is the absolute power corrupts absolutely incarnate. And yet here is the antithesis of that. This flying strongman in a red and blue suit, which she points out should not work. And yet he makes it work because he is Superman.

36:58
Bones
Yes.

36:58
JD
And he's using these like these godlike abilities to help people and not to better himself.

37:06
Case
Yeah, I like the line. It wasn't easy coming up with a name for someone who shouldn't exist.

37:10
Bones
Yep.

37:10
JD
Yeah. And there it reminded like she's her mentioning that she's the one who coined. Coined the name. It brings me back to the three part pilot for Superman, the Animated series. When Lois, you know, it's like, she's like, nice square. Excuse me, the emblem on his chest. And like, and like Superman, he's like, he's the Nietzschean ideal, all wrapped up in red, white and blue. Yeah.

37:36
Case
Lois has to have that snappy kind of style to her. And we get some of that here. Like she's like, it's all BS before Superman. You know, like moments there where you just remember like, oh yeah, she's the adult in the room. Like, like that's Lois's role to be the adult in the room. Be a little bit in disbelief of all this shit and be competent in a way that like, other characters just aren't. Like, Superman's like the best like childish idea of a hero that you could imagine thrown out there into the world. And that's why they work together. Because she's again, she's the adult in the room. And then he's like the, like, I, I do good. I'm a good boy.

38:11
JD
Right.

38:13
Case
Kind of, kind of a golden retriever, but as a superhero.

38:16
JD
He's such a wife guy when they get together.

38:20
Bones
Yeah, it's. I did love. There's a scene in Superman and Lois. I won't go into the context of the scene, but like, Lois is mad and like Clarkson trying to like make her feel better and she's just like, no, I get to be mad. Go away. Like I Know you are right. Shut up and let me be mad.

38:44
Case
Right. She says, like, of course you have an excuse, you're Superman. But I need to hold on to this anger right now.

38:49
Bones
Yeah,.

38:52
Case
Because she needed it for a thing. Anyway, so there's a missile attack and Superman chases the missile to a rocket or rather to a submarine. And you know, of course it's probably like, I mean it's gotta be.

39:04
JD
Come on. And we get. And we get one of the very, very few double splash pages of Superman having lifted the submarine out of the ocean and just dropping it on the harbor.

39:17
Bones
Yeah. And instead of. And instead of awe, Lex Luthor just looks constipated.

39:24
JD
And the military is just like fully on board with this. Like, oh yeah, we'll totally take them take away Superman. Don't you worry about it.

39:32
Bones
Well then I love Lex's excuse. His line. Excuse me. You're not gonna leave this for the taxpayers to clean up, are you? What the fuck, Lex? You haven't paid a damn tax in your life. Why didn't you give a shit?

39:48
JD
I was just gonna say, I was like, this man hasn't paid his taxes in several years. Like another certain orange haired person we know about.

40:00
Bones
Not to get into this other amazing book, but I'm halfway through Many Deaths of Laila Starr. And I love when in that book death gets fired. She's just yelling. I bet taxes has her corner office still.

40:17
Case
But yeah. So terrorist tries to kidnap Lois and Superman, remember reminds everyone that he's faster than the speeding bullet by disarming the guy. And then Lois like beats the guy senseless.

40:27
Jmike
Yeah, yeah, she's still Lois.

40:30
Case
And then she has Superman for a ride again to like keep like, keep Lex from being like, I could give you a ride, Lo. It's like actually Superman's gonna give me a ride because I don't want to talk to you.

40:39
JD
Yeah. And also one of my favorite like, I love the very different like depictions of super speed across comics. And this is one of my favorite depictions in that. Across three vertical panels. You have like look like in the first panel you have Lex starting his statement and then on the last word it cuts. And then it. And then it cuts the word into three. Into the three panels where he's saying the word terrorists. And it cuts in the three panels and showing Superman during that, during the time it takes like to say that word. He disarms the terror. He disarms the guy who's holding Lois.

41:19
Bones
At gunpoint in the time he crumbles it like tinfoil.

41:22
Case
Yeah, yeah. And there's this wonderful like blur of color. Like you can kind of get a sense of what is going on there. But it looks like this like trend that I've been seeing on Twitter recently of like people doing these like computer generated algorithmic art pieces for things where they like take reference images. Like this. This looks like if you put a picture of Superman one side and then did like a Photoshop marquee effect and then put Phil. And it's perfect for that. Like, it's just this like blur of motion and then he's back into his position holding the gun.

41:52
Bones
The layouts like the reason I love Tim Sale with specifically. Yeah, yeah. Jeff Loeb, Jeffson Comics. Loeb is like the synergy they have with each other in terms of like the. Yeah, just like the great pacing because like both sides have to plan for how the scenes will lay out. Like, okay, this is how I want. You know, Loeb says, this is what I want on this page. And then Sale has to like break it down and like he just always does it fantastically. Like, and the. Because like there's nothing not. This is not a, A. This is a fast paced book in the fact that like there's rarely more than like seven panels, six panels per page. That's like. But it's usually like four. Like four or five. Four.

42:48
JD
Five.

42:48
Case
Yeah, yeah. The art's a big driver for this book. Like, there's so many good shots throughout this whole thing. It's rarely trying to do like a nine panel grid or anything like that.

42:58
JD
Yeah, yeah. And also what's great is that this is a very visual story and the dialogue, or rather the narration enhances the story and does. And the. And the two working concert to drive the story forward.

43:12
Case
So then we get Lois getting flown to the Daily Planet. We. And you know, just a reminder, this is from her perspective. So far, like, all the thought balloons have been her. Even though we've had a few pages since we've had thought balloons from her or like, or text box from her. But we get some nice like, Lois Clark banter between the two of them. Like, and that's a good handoff right there because like Clark gets a drop on being like, by the way, how'd you get on that submarine? And she's like, surprised that he knows. And it's like we all have our little secrets, Clark. I'm sure even you do. And that's when we get the handoff. To being allowed to see the behind the scenes of Clark's life at this point.

43:46
Case
Because up until that point, it's all Lois kind of describing the world for us and us seeing it from her perspective generally. And then we get to see Clark go to his, like, little apartment and, like, chilling out, eating a sandwich on. On his bed as he relaxes a little bit.

43:59
Bones
Yeah. Which that relaxing layout or not layout, but, like, the angle and kind of the layout sale uses three times. Because he. Because he used it first when Clark was hearing Mon. Pa can, like, talk about him from across the house. Second time here. And then one last time when he goes back to Smallville after Luthor. Shenanigans make him feel bad.

44:32
Case
Yeah. And so Clark goes to visit his parents. Pa hears him approaching from behind. It doesn't even need to. He says, I know your footsteps anywhere, Clark. Which is very impressive. Out in a field like that takes some work because it's just dirt and plants. It's not like I know your footsteps on a hardwood floor or something.

44:51
Bones
Yeah.

44:51
Case
We get a great hug with a reference to the fortress of solitude in the corn fields. That's all nice. Clark, you know, has dinner with his folks and, you know, we can see that he's. He is conflicted. Like, he's lonely, like he. He says. So, you know, he's trying to find his way. He goes to see Lana, and Lana is not there. The pastor is, like, taking care of the. The estate. We find out that Lana's aunt has died. And that's a. We get some stuff with Pete Ross, which is fun. Like, we keep this. This theme of Pete Ross, like, wishing every time he, like, walks into the diner, which I think is fun.

45:20
Bones
Well, I didn't get sad later when he'd, like, oh, you gotta grow up. And then yells at Clark and Lana like, he left and came back. Why?

45:31
Case
Yeah, but it hasn't really spilled over yet. We get a callback to the first issue where Clark is, like, talking about the possibilities in front of him and how, like, he always wanted small builds. It'd be like his home base. And that's where his glasses are reflecting the. The. The stars of beyond. And, like, that's such a. A nice reference there. But Ma is very good at, like, making him feel like he'll always have a home there. And then we cut to, you know, a fire and some Luther henchmen saving the day in the. The classic Lex Luther armor, the purple and green armor. And specifically, this is a reference to the design that we do see in man of Steel, where they had the helmet that was not part of the typical design, but. But it is there and it's shared here.

46:17
Bones
What, what I personally like about this seed is they're trying to be like, we got this, Superman. Everyone's out. And he just like backhands them. He's like, no, there's someone still in there. Which is the.

46:35
JD
Woman, the biochemist that we have been referencing.

46:38
Case
Yeah. She says, bless you. She has this like religious affection for Superman after he saves her. And we get this shot of him like doing a whirlwind of fire to like suck the fire out. And it's very Jesusy. Like he's in a crucifix position as he sucks the fire away. It's really good.

46:56
Bones
Yeah.

46:56
JD
And also we get a nice little moment too of him talking back to the robots, to Lutheran's robots, where he says, it's like, if you're gonna do this, at least do it right.

47:08
Bones
Yeah, yeah. It's like, crouch on my territory. Like, fine. Like, I'm not. But don't let a woman die because.

47:16
JD
You're sure encroach upon his territory like it's animal. Like, no, this is mine. You can't do it. You can't do my job better than me.

47:24
Jmike
Only I can hear around here.

47:26
JD
Only I can save the people of Metropolis. That's Luthor. That's actually Luther's voice, which is fitting because that's who's narrating the next issue fall.

47:36
Bones
Yeah.

47:37
Case
Because we end the issue with him with Luthor going to visit this woman who is now obsessed with Superman. And she has like a shrine that she's built to him, which is a little creepy, honestly.

47:46
JD
Like, her entire apartment.

47:49
Bones
Yeah, yeah. It's like her entire living room. Yeah. You get this kind of like, naivete and it's like, okay, you snapped with that near death experiment experience, didn't you?

48:02
Case
Like, yeah, just a bit.

48:04
Bones
Did the, did the fireman get you the oxygen that he told you?

48:10
JD
Maybe just a bit too much.

48:12
Bones
Well then also, like, there's. It's hinted on with her and like the kind of. The reaction she has, but like, it's something I kind of also would like to see explored more in comics because there's. I remember a couple of issues in like, I think early 2000s Thor, late 90s Thor. I forget exactly which because it was like I found it back bends years.

48:35
Case
Ago of like, people worshiping the heroes as like religious icons.

48:39
Bones
Well, specifically Thor. Because they're like, okay. Because, like, he is literally the God of God, Thor. So guess what? His religion kicks up again. Like, people stop start worshiping him again.

48:52
Case
Yeah, that was a big thing in the 2099 line. Particularly Spider man, like, ended up. But it was like Thor rights had become a huge thing because Thor would God. Like, so all of a sudden, Thor, like, the religion of Thor is becoming, or the church of Thor is becoming, like a big competitor for any other organized religion in the country. And when Spider man shows up, they're like, oh, you're the four. Like, you're the prophet that will, like, will bring. Thor's coming. And it's like he's like a John the Baptist type figure.

49:18
Bones
I, I just, I, I see. Now that you mention mind, I just remember this weird small detail that Punisher 2099's parents were, like, really into Thorism. Yep.

49:31
Case
Well, and so was he until his parents were murdered brutally. And then he, like, lost faith in God. But there's a whole story arc where people, like, try to approach him to, like, be a pawn in, like, a Thorite, like, in those, like, using religious propaganda. And they wanted, like, Jake or Jake Gallows, who was Punisher, to be like, one of their, like, front men for it, not knowing that he was secretly the Punisher.

49:54
Bones
Yeah, that's such a, that was such a weird line. I love it so much.

50:00
JD
Yeah, it gets me really excited that we're getting the spider man of 2099 in across the Spider Verse with Oscar Isaac. Isaac, yeah.

50:08
Case
Yep.

50:09
JD
He gets to play Spider man and Moon Knight. Good for him.

50:13
Bones
Miguel.

50:14
Case
Miguel, yeah. One of, One of the best.

50:16
JD
Yeah. And again, and it gets to be Moon Knight. I'm just, I'm excited for my boy.

50:22
Case
But so the next issue, just to. To get us back on Tracker, the next issue. And this is what why I like, keep on mentioning the man of Steel thing. Because the Luthor arrested part here is a reference directly to. I think it's issue three of man of Steel where, like, Superman like, empowered by the governor, like in our arrests, Lex Luthor. And that's like, oh, man. Like, that was. That was crossing a line right there. And so this picks up when Luthor is being released. And it's fun to see him, like, a little, like, put off by it all. You know, he's like, trying to, like, get his bearings after this whole thing being like, I. Someone humiliated me.

50:55
JD
This is, this is going through a public humiliation. This is like, oh, God, I had the term And I lost it. Oh, whatever. Yes. It's public humiliation this is. And, and it's even brought up by Lois. It's like, you know, it's like the Superman could beat him all day long, but you publicly humiliate him, that's another level. And he's not going to take this spell.

51:18
Bones
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, she's worried. It's like that Superman crossed the line with publicly humidity meeting him, like making him do the perp walk. It just like that's Luthor's. Yeah. Like that's snapping Luthor's whatever self control he had left.

51:35
Jmike
Like.

51:36
Case
Yeah. And so we see Luther dive into his work, which is his work is torture Superman. Superman goes to confront him and there's.

51:42
JD
Also torturing this woman.

51:46
Case
He, he has delegates to do that. Like he has staff for such a thing as lowly as torturing a human. A Clockwork Orange style. Like.

51:56
JD
Yeah, yeah, that panel me up. I was just, I was not prepared to see that in this comment because.

52:03
Bones
Like it's like half a page.

52:05
JD
Yeah, that is.

52:06
Bones
Yeah.

52:06
JD
Oh, yeah. So I'm just thinking now, like if for some odd reason Luthor ever did his taxes. I'm just trying to see like on the, like the bill of like where money is allocated. I was like, okay, so this is Superman torture staff. Mortal torture staff. Magical torture staff. Just has different staff for torturing different things.

52:29
Case
Sorry. The torture department, we had like a surplus of funds and that. So we had to like spend some of it here. Otherwise our budget was going to be way up for the next year. So we, you know, we needed to make sure that we allocated some towards torturing humans and also torturing gods and also torturing cats sometimes. Because, you know, it like we're. I'm Lexus, right? I torture cats for fun.

52:49
JD
Oh, he would. He absolutely would. That's why Smoke has been yelling about this. She is, she is. And she is extremely anti Luthor. She understands. You get it right, baby?

53:01
Case
So we cut to the Daily Planet where Lon or Lois is reading Clark's notes and is like, ll, are you talking about me? And it's like Lana Lang.

53:09
Bones
Yeah, you nosy bish.

53:13
JD
I do. Okay, I, I, and I never thought about this. I never thought about this because like, I was like, okay, yeah, Lois Lane, Lana Lang, you have like the two double L, you know, potential love, like the friend and potential love interest, right.

53:29
Case
Along with Lori Lemoris, his college love and Lex Luthor.

53:33
JD
I never realized.

53:34
Case
But I never thought Lyra Liral, his Kryptonian love.

53:37
JD
There are so many double Ls in his life. What is he doing?

53:41
Case
So many. Like, the one to break that finally was Cat Grant, but that was never meant to be.

53:47
Bones
Yeah, yeah, we.

53:49
JD
We don't need to talk about Cat Grant.

53:50
Case
Oh, we need to talk about Cat Grant all the time. But not right now. This is not a Cat Granted episode. We need to talk about Cat Grant at some point.

53:57
Bones
Yeah. She does not show up in this miniseries. I don't think she does.

54:01
JD
No, she doesn't.

54:02
Case
No. Maybe. Maybe in a panel. But she's. She's not a character. She's not a player in this because, like, the. Honestly, it's the. The lowest relationship. And a lot of relationships which represent two different parts of the Superman identity, like, that are important here because it's about the roots of Superman and then what the tree he's growing into is. And the tree he's growing into has to deal with the fact that the air has become toxic because as he spars with Lois verbally, she faints, as does everyone in the Daily Planet office.

54:31
JD
And then as he soon realizes, everyone in Metropolis except for one. Except for one scientist who's already, you know, like, sealed up doing her work. And, you know, they have a conversation about, like, you know, what this could be, what, like, how Superman can help. And then eventually she just says, like, have you talked to Luthor? Like, he's the richest guy in the city. He could probably. And he has a huge science department. He could probably do something if he didn't already do this. Right.

54:58
Case
And Luther's like, oh, I've got a sealed off area. It's great. Also, I've got a biochemist who you saved, who's now in a supervillain outfit that I paid for some reason. Yeah, I don't understand this part right here. Like, I get that it's like we're having some fun with this character, but, like, I feel like they had this idea of, like, we're going torture this woman, and then they're like, fuck, what are we doing in this issue? And I'm like, I don't think this makes sense. Yeah, it's like a bastard plan.

55:23
Bones
It's like. Like, it's like, you think like, okay, he brainwashed her into, like, now she's gonna fight Superman? Nope.

55:30
JD
No.

55:31
Case
They team up and they actually go, stop it.

55:33
JD
Yeah. Yeah.

55:34
Bones
They fly around in the clouds and she's like, look, it's raining. That means that the. The Antidote is spreading and she dies.

55:46
JD
Yeah.

55:46
Case
She takes the name Toxin. And he's very good about once. She's like, no, my name is not. Whatever it was before. She's like, it's Toxin now. And he doesn't it up after that. Or like, he has, like, one moment where he like, almost says Ms. Vaughn, but. But then after that, he's like. When she's like, lying down dead, he's like, toxin. Toxin does not dead.

56:04
JD
Man said trans rights. God damn it.

56:07
Case
Exactly. Yeah. So she. She dies and it's.

56:10
JD
It.

56:10
Case
It is a moment of torture. But I'm like, I'm so confused. Like, why. Why is she dressed up like a super villain? Why isn't she just a scientist?

56:17
Bones
Yeah, and then like, she. Yeah, like, she doesn't do any supervillain things. She saves the day and then immediately dies. Well, or.

56:26
Case
Or have her dressed up like Superman. Like, have her like, what's that character? Like the. The lady who's, like, obsessed with Superman and, like, is his stalker character? I forget her name. She's more from the 90s than anything else. But you sure like a character like that. No, no.

56:43
JD
I'm pissing off every Cat Grant fan right now. And I don't know. Okay.

56:47
Case
Cat Grant was created by Jerry Ordway for the purpose of being like, no, Clark Kent is a catch. She is not into Superman. She is into Clark Kent because.

56:55
JD
And you know what? She's not wrong. She's not wrong.

56:58
Case
Right?

56:58
Bones
Because she.

56:59
Case
She's like, oh, this six foot four, like, beefcake who is super nice. Like, I have been with some shitty dudes over the years. I have a son from a shitty dude. I like, I want someone who can be a partner in this relationship and who will support me and who is not. Someone who I need to, like, worry about pissing off. And like, that is Clark.

57:21
Bones
That's. That's.

57:22
JD
We all know Clark Kent.

57:23
Bones
He.

57:24
Jmike
Right.

57:25
Case
Like, Clark, like, Cat Grant was created to be what Superman 3's Lana Lang was.

57:30
Jmike
Yeah.

57:31
Case
To be that representation of, like. No. Right. Clark Kent is the. Is the catch here. Like, like, he's a. Like a handsome man with a good job who has a good heart and a gentle soul. Like, you can't go wrong with that. And. And he's great with words.

57:44
JD
That was a net o' tool, wasn't it?

57:46
Case
Yep.

57:46
JD
Can you imagine a net o' tool playing Cat Grant?

57:49
Case
I. I mean, yes and no.

57:52
JD
I feel like it broke you for five seconds there. Just, like, maybe.

57:58
Case
I mean, there's no reason why not like she effectively played that part, but.

58:01
JD
Yeah.

58:01
Case
But. But, yeah. So toxin dies because apparently she's overloaded by whatever the plague that was in the air. It was a viral issue, by the way. Like, that. It was Covid.

58:12
JD
Oh, the entire.

58:14
Bones
The entirety of. Of anybody alive right now. Whenever there's an illness that shows up, it's like. Oh, like Covid.

58:22
Case
Right. It's hard for us not to draw that comparison in this third year of our hellscape years. Anyway, so she dies. Lex Luthor, like, makes fun of her, of the fact that she died, blah, blah. Kind of just trying to remind you that, like, Superman has faith in humanity, and Lex Luthor, by virtue of not having faith in humanity, can play dirtier tricks.

58:42
JD
And as a smarmy prick.

58:43
Case
Yeah. So Superman is left dejected.

58:45
JD
He.

58:45
Case
He goes home at the end of this issue. Like, this is like the fall where he has to find his comfort zone, because he was like, I don't know if I can handle. Like, that are just this big a. Like, he murdered a person just to piss me off.

59:00
Bones
Yeah. Well, I think that's also the thing is, like, he was on top of the world. He's like, I could catch planes. I can, like, move rivers. Like, I'm unstoppable. I can save anyone. And then Lex comes along, and, like, he saves the city, but not. But not toxin.

59:24
Case
Right.

59:24
Bones
And it breaks him.

59:26
Case
Yeah. So Superman leaves, and we pick up for winter time, and we get the kid playing on the edge of the.

59:32
Bones
Goddamn ledger for the third time.

59:34
JD
God damn it. Did you not learn anything, kid? Did you not learn anything?

59:38
Case
Trying to peck people with snowballs. And we get such a juxtaposition here of, like, one of these Lex guards, like, warning him in this very authoritarian kind of way. Citizen.

59:47
Bones
It's horrifying. It is horrifying.

59:49
Case
Yeah. He, like, flies up, and being like, citizen, you shouldn't do that.

59:51
Jmike
Lex is watching.

59:53
Case
Exactly. And, like, Clark has retreated, and we get some fun bits of, like, Lois being, like, Clark left. Just when it's all gonna be boring. Like, is he Lois? That's a dumb idea.

01:00:04
JD
Yeah, we get that. Yeah. Another, like, full splash page of her just sitting on. On, like, sitting at his desk with his, like, desk name sign. And she's like, lois, that is the stupidest idea in the world.

01:00:16
Case
Yeah. And she literally has the thought balloon right above it, which is that. That Clark Kent is Superman. And the. There's the big frame. Superman.

01:00:23
JD
It flies.

01:00:23
Case
Yeah. Clark Kent, like, named, like, name plate, whatever that's called, you know. You know the thing from movies where they have, like, a gold thing, like a gold name tag for their desk? A thing that exists in the real world. I'm sure it does. I know I've seen them, but, like.

01:00:40
Bones
Like, yeah, it does feel like you only see them in movies. What I really like about the scene is, like. So, like, for me, stay with me here, because I'm gonna start this by. By saying this controversially.

01:00:52
Case
Okay.

01:00:53
Bones
I don't really like the 78 movie of Superman.

01:00:58
JD
Heresy.

01:01:00
Bones
Are you here?

01:01:02
JD
Why do we have a podcast together? Hold on a second. I have to rethink our entire friendship right now.

01:01:07
Case
Wait, wait, wait. Let's hear the Heretic out.

01:01:13
JD
Let's hear her before we burn her.

01:01:17
Case
Let's see if she floats.

01:01:21
JD
Yeah, Angela, let's see if you float. We all float down here.

01:01:24
Bones
Let's. Let's see if I can't. Can't bring you. Bring you back. What I do really love about that movie is showing it made me believe, like, okay, people not realizing the Clark vs Superman dynamic just, like. Because Christopher Reeve just, like, acted that fucking well in it. But then there's that other question. It's like, well, okay, Lois Lane spends every day with both of them. What's her deal? What is her excuse?

01:01:51
Case
Yeah, it works a lot better for someone who knows them casually.

01:01:54
Bones
Yeah.

01:01:55
Case
Like, I've had situations where I've bumped into people that I knew quite well, and it was just in the wrong context, and I could not fucking think of where I knew them from. Like, people who I'd worked with on. On a job only like, a month or two before. And it's like, what the fuck? There was one time I got on the subway because, like, when. When you live in New York, you just sort of like, get on the subway, and there's a very good chance you'll know someone on the car with you. Where it's just like, I. Like, they're with, like, all these people, and I'm like, I. I super know who they are. Where is it from? Where is it from?

01:02:22
Case
And it was just, like, the wrong context because your brain is looking for, like, the information to file and like, to open up. Like, where. Where is it? Where's. How does that synapse connect? That's the best argument I can make for Lois Lane. But at a certain point, you're like, no, but you know each other too well. Like, it's. Yeah, it's too close.

01:02:37
Bones
Well, that's what I kind of like about this scene is, like, for so like, what the Superman movie did for me for. Yeah, casual people. It's like, okay, this is why Lois doesn't realize. Like, she literally. Like, she is pretty sure. But, like, it's just. It is just such a ridiculous proposition that she can't. She. She can't connect those dots. Like, she can't let herself connect those dots because, like, her entire issue is talking about, like, how much of a reach this is for her to even believe in the first place, much less her kind of dopey co worker is this dude that can move mountains.

01:03:24
Jmike
They hinted and they played along. They played with that thought it was Superman Returns where they're in the Daily Planet and Lois and her husband are sitting there and they're talking about Clark, and Clark's playing with the kid.

01:03:36
Case
Yeah, it's like, how tall is Superman? Like, six' four. Like, how tall is Clark? Like, like six, three, six, four. I don't know. Something like that.

01:03:43
JD
He's like, huh?

01:03:46
Jmike
What are you guys talking about over there?

01:03:47
Bones
Yeah.

01:03:48
Case
Yeah. I mean, there's kind of always the vibe with Superman that his hearing is so good that as people are, like, starting to put together things, he always, like, makes a distraction so they lose their train of thought, which is always kind of a fun vibe.

01:03:59
Bones
Yep.

01:04:00
Case
I mean, there was the 70s convention of, like, oh, no, he has passive hypnosis or he'll kiss you and make you forget.

01:04:07
Bones
Superman 2 turned into makeout session Mindy race.

01:04:13
Case
Yeah, the forget me not kiss. And of course, like, the, like, the 80s 90s had this whole idea of, like, Superman when he's in action, is moving so fast, and even when he's, like, standing still, he's vibrating so fast that no one can ever, like, clearly see his face. But once Lois Lane has kissed the man, it no longer works. There's a certain point where you're like, oh, hold on. But I. I mean, like, yeah, I mean, it's just. It's just a thing you got to deal with. And that's why I think it's good that Lois and Clark have more consistently in modern literature been allowed to advance in their relationship. Like, I think it's works as a flirtatious period of them dueling as.

01:04:50
Case
As Lois and Clark, while at the same time, this, like, mystery man who's, like, so incredible is out there and she's having to get a scoop. But eventually they need to. They need to come together. Like, yeah, that. That status quo can only last for so long. And honestly, even 60s comics couldn't really keep it up, which Is why they had, like, the Superman family books where Earth 2 Superman, who was married to Lois, was also a story in there just so they could keep. They're like, yes, no, we understand. This is the end game. They're gonna get together. She's gonna know. We can only tell so many stories about it.

01:05:21
JD
Eventually it will happen.

01:05:22
Case
Lois Lane will eventually know who Superman is. But in the meantime, Lana Lang does. And so we. We jump to after this whole, like, diatribe from Lois. Lana, who is the narrator for this issue. We haven't mentioned that part yet. Is hanging out with Superman in Smallville in wintertime. And they're getting dressed up to go play in the snow because wholesome. They go make snow angels.

01:05:44
Bones
Yeah. Well, talking about their, like, catch it up, like, the past, like, 10 years, probably. Like, which. Yeah. This issue is where we find out exactly Lotta's thoughts after being revealed that, you know. Yeah. Clark has these amazing powers on the eve of their graduation. So she's, like, very much like, okay, I understand. Like, you know, all right, this means you, like, got big plans, got blitz, you know, like, big things you gotta do.

01:06:12
JD
So we're not gonna get married and have a bunch of kids like I always thought we would? Yeah.

01:06:16
Jmike
Because, like, she hints at that when he took her to the field, she thought he was gonna propose.

01:06:21
Bones
Yep. Yep.

01:06:23
Jmike
And then he's like, oh, you have powers. Oh, that's not where I thought this was gonna go.

01:06:27
Bones
Yeah, this is not where I thought this was going at all.

01:06:30
Case
Oh, you can fly. Didn't see that one coming.

01:06:32
Jmike
Yeah, this is new. This is new.

01:06:35
Bones
Can't say this was on my bingo card.

01:06:38
Case
Yep. So we get, like, some nice shots of, like, how Smallville has changed. And they go and meet up with Pete Ross at this diner. And he doesn't rub the elephant this time. That sounds like a euphemism. He doesn't rub the elephant this time for the first time. And. And we've set it up that, like, every time Clark's been in town, Pete does it. I think it's three times we see.

01:06:57
Bones
But, yeah, there is. There's a statue. There's an elephant statue in the, like, pharmacy diner thing that they go to. And Pete rubs it every time and he says, I wish for a million dollars this time.

01:07:10
JD
This time. He doesn't. And he mentions that it's time to. You know, it's time to put away certain such childish things. And I like that moment because it kind of. It almost tries to. I feel like it's almost Talking to the reader in that way of, you know, maybe it's time to put away childish things. But this book is like a refutation of that. It's like, no, we shouldn't put away the childish things because the childish things can change us fundamentally and make us better human beings.

01:07:38
Case
Yeah, and Superman is one of those things for a lot of people. Like, I think this whole book in general is a, an explanation of like why Superman matters to us as this morality play that we observe and like go with. Like, I think that's such a cool part of it all. You know, we get updates on the town. I think that's really nice that we keep seeing how like Clark's tuned in. They want to see if I put poker with them.

01:08:01
Bones
Which is great because the one guy has like had a heart attack or something. So like, which is kind of sad.

01:08:10
Case
No, it says he thought he was having a heart attack, but it turned out to be angina.

01:08:13
Bones
What is that? I didn't google that because I was.

01:08:15
Case
I'm actually not sure. So I'm googling it right now. Pain in the chest, but also spreading shoulders. Neck looks like it's a blood pressure related thing. Point is not as severe as a heart attack. But he's out of commission, at least for their card deal.

01:08:28
Bones
Yeah, yeah, it's like there's very tidy changes to Smallville. Like those guys are still playing cards each time. Like every time they go to the diner, they're in the corner playing cards. And Pete is such a side character in this. It's just like, okay, well Lana, like somehow like maybe through her aunt's inheritance or something, like I don't know of like lotta peace out for a good long while and like made her life somewhere else. Of course Clark went to, you know, go work in the city. But like what was Pete doing?

01:09:07
Case
No, that's totally true. And like this issue reminds us that Clark as this award winning journalist is like a hero for his small town. Like regardless of being Superman, like Clark has been like a, a symbol to everyone here about like what you can do. Like that even people from this little small ville are able to like go off and into the big city and be, you know, you know, Pulitzer Prize winning journalist.

01:09:29
JD
But Pete Ross did not joke everyone. He made, he made the Smallville joke. We can all wrap it up now.

01:09:36
Bones
See, I wonder if like another like 10 years after this book, you have kind of like he's. Because is. No, because it's not it's somebody isn't the. Lana's wife Lotta's husband entirely new character. And Lois and Lo.

01:09:53
Case
And Lo and Clark. It is. However, she has gotten together with Pete Ross in. Actually in this continuity. So, like, at about this time, they were canonically married in the. In the main books and, like, Pete Ross. So we. We haven't talked about Pete Ross that much on this podcast. Like, he's. Because he's more of a fixture of Smallville stuff as opposed to, like, Metropolis stuff. But he's the Superboy version of Jimmy Olsen and has always been, like, the best friend. And someday we'll talk about, like, Smallville, the TV show where he's the main character. We'll talk about more stuff. So far, the only time we've talked about him was when he was part of the Legion of Superheroes because he was an honorary member. And New Mon El and Ultra Boy and all those people.

01:10:33
Case
This version of Pete Ross is just, like, left to be this, like, embittered person who I think eventually has, like, dreams of politics and so forth in the mainstream DC continuity.

01:10:42
JD
But this is like, he becomes president after Luthor.

01:10:44
Case
Oh, is he vp?

01:10:45
JD
Yeah, No, I think. No, he. I think he beats him in election.

01:10:51
Case
Well, Luthor stops being president because he's revealed to be a super villain in an armor that's attacking people.

01:10:57
JD
Okay. No, no, I'm sorry. I think it was just like, he just got. He got elected as president after that.

01:11:02
Case
But I wouldn't be surprised because, like, his entire. Luthor's entire cabinet as. As president was designed to piss off Superman. Like, General Lane was, like, part of his cabinet. Like, I would not be surprised if his VP was. Was Pete Ross, who, again, did do political things, like, in the 90s era of comics.

01:11:20
JD
Long.

01:11:21
Case
Long story short, though, here he is just this bitter symbol of, like, what they left behind. Like, the people that could have used the emotional support of his best friends, and they weren't there for him. And so he's, like, kind of lost, unable to, like, really get his footing. He's just stuck in Smallville.

01:11:35
Bones
Well, okay, well, that's. That makes more sense putting it that way. Otherwise, it's just kind of like, what were you doing, dude? Like, yeah, they went off to do their stuff, like, you were stuck here. But it's like, they did whatever got out, I guess just because we don't see the details, like, of his.

01:11:55
Case
Yeah. And like, they're very young at this point. Like, they're like. They're probably, like, 25 still like, even.

01:12:03
Bones
I would say, yeah, maybe 27. Some. Yeah.

01:12:09
Case
Most. Like, you know, like, again, the last issue comes off right after, like, still part of, like, the origin story of Superman. Like, I would argue that this issue takes place before the last issue of man of Steel where he is confronted by the hologram of Jor El. Because we never get any vibe of, like, the Krypton stuff. And that happens when he's in Smallville and just randomly, the hologram appears to him. So I think this is supposed to between the issue five and six of that miniseries, which makes sense because I think it's between issue one and two, between issue two and three, between issue three and four, or however that works. So, you know, we. We don't get any of that vibe. Like, Krypton does not come in up at all in this entire.

01:12:46
Bones
Yeah.

01:12:47
Case
Arc. Like, there's no, like, oh, I'm an alien. It's like, no, I'm weird.

01:12:52
Bones
I can do. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna go do.

01:12:55
Case
So we get. We get Lana Lang joining the Kents for, like, a nice meal. And, like, there's this vibe of, like, oh, yeah, like, we're all coming together again. It's. It's so great. Also, the dog's still alive. I do need to point that part.

01:13:06
Bones
The childhood dog.

01:13:07
JD
It's important to point out when the dog is alive because the dog should always be alive.

01:13:12
Bones
Although. Oh, God, the. Like, my dog is, like, 12, 13 right now. And so, like, when Clark makes the comment, man, she is getting older, isn't she? Like, no.

01:13:26
JD
Here, I'm gonna make a promise to. I'm gonna make a promise to y'.

01:13:29
Jmike
All.

01:13:29
JD
And this is also extended to the listeners. If I ever write a horror story and a dog is in there, I will promise you 100. The dog will stay alive the entire time.

01:13:41
Bones
I think it's like, dogs. Dogs do get killed in horror stories most definitely. But I still feel like it's more cats.

01:13:49
JD
It's animals in general. Animals die a lot in horror movies. And I would suggest everyone go check out the latest episode of the King Cast where they talk about the book Needful Things and they actually have that discussion of the. Why dogs get killed a lot in horror movies? Especially as Stephen King things, it ups the stakes.

01:14:06
Case
I mean, it's like, why. That's why the cat is like. Stays alive the whole time, but you're, like, on pins and needles. Like, like, is the only gonna get the cat. Like, I don't care about these people. Like, it's the only thing.

01:14:16
JD
Did y' all see Movie Crawl with the alligator Florida movie?

01:14:19
Bones
Oh, no, I want to because, like, same maybe. Like, I, I don't know if he wrote it, but like, I know he at least produced. Produced it.

01:14:26
JD
He produced it. It's a great movie. And I'll go ahead and let you all know right now. The dog is alive at the end. Spoilers.

01:14:35
Case
You don't have spoilers about the best things possible. Like, so they're having this nice dinner. They're. They're getting all ready for everything. And then Chief Parker shows up and it's like, yeah, flooding is about to be real bad. And so we're reminded about the force of nature aspect of this. You know, in the first one we got have a tornado. And the second one is a four fire tornado was like the biggest thing he deals with. And the third one, it's literally the wind and like thunderstorms like, or like bringing storms is how it like kind of like pushes away the, the death of everyone. But like that virus is like aerial. So it's like again, like a force of nature, a plague. And in this case, it's flood that we are dealing with.

01:15:13
Case
And Lana reveals in a great spot where it's like nothing like having a son who can change the course of mighty rivers. And yeah, she knows, she knows.

01:15:22
Bones
Yeah, but she knows. Yeah, yeah. It's just kind of like, okay, let's, you know, do it. All right, like, perfect.

01:15:32
JD
Out of the bag now, please. I mean, this is. The chemistry is off the charts here,.

01:15:37
Case
But we get the big dramatic scene of Superman actually stopping a natural disaster, which I think people take for granted because it was so pivotal to like, early Superman stuff that it became cliche by like the 50s. So, like, the idea of Superman, like having to do something to like, stop a flood would be passe because he's already done it so many times and eventually he's so powerful, it's like it just breathes on it and it freezes and no one dies. Okay. Or he looks at it hard and it burns away and no one dies. Like, you know, this is still Superman coming to grips with his powers and he has to like, make a, you know, make a dam makeshift with like, lumber and so forth. And like.

01:16:12
JD
Yeah, he hasn't discovered the freeze. Breath is cool, right, Case? Right?

01:16:17
Case
It's very cool. Wink, wink.

01:16:20
JD
In both senses.

01:16:21
Bones
I'm shaking my head, listeners. I am shaking my head, but he.

01:16:25
Case
Saves his dad, and he saves the dog. And the town is just like, Superman showed up to save us.

01:16:30
JD
This is so cool.

01:16:31
Case
He must be special.

01:16:32
Bones
Yeah. You know, the pastors is kind of like, well, I guess we can rebuild now since no one died.

01:16:39
Case
Yeah. And we get this, like, wide shot of, like, all the people, like, gathered around with, like, candles and like, it's like, short person, short person, short person.

01:16:49
Bones
A full chest and head taller than everyone else.

01:16:54
Case
They're like, it's so crazy that Superman showed up here. I can't imagine why he would show up here.

01:16:59
JD
Oh, hey. And then look. Looks up to the sky. Oh, hey, Clark. Didn't see you there, you 65 monster.

01:17:06
Case
And I always read this as being like, the town kind of might be agreeing to protect his secrets or they're all just oblivious. But I. It doesn't really matter.

01:17:13
JD
I kind of like the former because that's just kind of cool. It's like, we all know, but we don't want to add them.

01:17:19
Bones
I know. I know that there is, like, a. There is a. Some continuity, I don't know which, where, like, they do have a story about that where it's just like, Clark goes home, and, like, everyone was just kind of like, yeah, Superboy showed up all the damn time. And then you move to Metropolis, and then Super Bowl Superman shows up in Metropolis. Like, we're not idiots.

01:17:47
Jmike
Right?

01:17:47
JD
Like, you know that whole country bumpkin thing. Yeah, this ain't it. Yeah, yeah, we know, kid.

01:17:54
Jmike
We know.

01:17:54
Case
But it turns out that Superman saving this small town from. From a flood is big news. Like, Superman hasn't been seen in a while. And so Clark Kent getting the scoop on this one is, like, a big deal when he comes back to Metropolis and Lois is mad, and Clark's like, yeah, I'm just lucky, I guess.

01:18:09
Bones
Yeah. And then she starts to entertain that thought again, and it's like, well, maybe. Maybe.

01:18:14
JD
Well, actually, Lois, my secret is that I'm actually Superman in a disguise. And I only pretend to be a journalist so I can figure out the disasters that are happening. You're a sick man, Clark.

01:18:24
Bones
God, that's an amazing Animated Series clip.

01:18:29
JD
Did I just recite that word for word? Almost. You asked.

01:18:32
Bones
Yeah. Yeah, that was damn close.

01:18:35
Case
Meanwhile, we have that same damn kid out of the same running on the goddamn ledge.

01:18:41
JD
The same damn cat.

01:18:43
Bones
Yeah, I don't know. I don't know why his. I mean, do his parents not have heat or ac? Like, why do they keep opening the window for the cat to get out.

01:18:52
JD
Or you know what? Maybe it's not even their cat. It's just a cat that keeps showing up and he wants to catch it. He's like, I want to play with you.

01:18:58
Case
Maybe it's not even the same cat.

01:18:59
JD
There's that, too.

01:19:00
Case
It could just be a different cat every time.

01:19:02
JD
Yeah, no, actually, his. His parents are taking care of all these cats, and his parents just send him out to get more. Go save the cat.

01:19:09
Bones
The Catwoman of Metropolis.

01:19:13
Case
His parents are secretly Frankie and Johnny.

01:19:18
JD
Oh, yeah.

01:19:19
Case
But anyway, yeah, so like, one of the Luthor bots or guard or whatever, like, tries to stop him and by yelling at him, and he slips and falls because he's surprised, and Superman sees him. And we get this, like, they call me Superman moment. And it's. It's real nice.

01:19:35
JD
Well, even better than that. Like, he's like, oh, hey, I remember. You're like, you remember me?

01:19:39
Bones
It's like, yeah, it's like every bit.

01:19:41
JD
Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah. It was like, that's my name. Like, oh, cool. Turn the page. They call me Superman.

01:19:47
Bones
Yeah, because the kid. Yeah, because the kid tells him his name, like, Johnny or whatever. Excuse me, but.

01:19:54
Case
But everyone calls me Trev. Good to meet you, Trevor. Folks call me Superman.

01:19:58
JD
And of course, he's gonna say, folks, like, that's. That's Superman. That's Clark.

01:20:02
Case
He's so folksy. And now at the. At the very end, Lana does have a line that's like, and maybe I'll give Pete Ross a call. Which again, at this point in time, they're married. So little. Little illusions there. But. But yeah, like I said, I think in terms of being a. This is a, like, the untold tales of Superman in the midst of his, like, larger origin story. And I think it's just so God damn nice.

01:20:24
JD
I'm so glad that you. That you got us on this episode and you finally got me to read this. This is a long time coming for me to read this.

01:20:33
Bones
Yeah, I was. I was really glad to reread it. Like, I said I hadn't read it since because I don't own it. Like, I read it on DC Universe and so, like, shout out to that app.

01:20:41
JD
You should give all of us money.

01:20:44
Jmike
Yeah, I feel like we're just giving free advertising here.

01:20:47
Bones
Marvel at dc. If you want to give us cash, we'll plug your apps all the time.

01:20:52
Case
I mean, if they were. If they were about that, like, the. Before it became DC Universe Infinite, went for six months where were like, what's on DC Universe. Okay, I guess we'll talk about that. And we're like, oh, we'll do the Science of Superman. Cool. Sure. Whatever. We were like, yeah, the DC Universe app. It's a great app. And they never gave us money.

01:21:12
JD
Well, Angela and I are here to turn the tides like Superman would in.

01:21:17
Case
The course of the mighty river. One thing I remembered when I was looking at this book that was like one of those, like, oh, right. I definitely remember this panel was they. They talk about Lex Luthor and how rich he is in issue two, where they're like, oh, it's not like he makes so much money that it wouldn't be worth his time to bend over and pick up a hundred dollar bill.

01:21:34
Bones
Which, by the way, a hundred and twenty dollars a second is quaint. With, like, Jeff Bezos. Jeff Bezos makes two grand a second.

01:21:43
Case
Right. That's exactly what I was gonna say. They were like, oh, look at the. Like, look how rich this guy is. This impossibly wealthy person in this, like, klept. Like, kleptocracy.

01:21:51
Bones
Yeah.

01:21:52
JD
They say $150 an hour.

01:21:54
Case
Like, no, 150 seconds.

01:21:55
Bones
They do say a second, but.

01:21:56
Case
But their whole point is like, oh, it's not worth his time to pick up $100 bill. Which I remember at the time being like, man, that's such a badass line. And then you look at it, you're like, man, they. They love all that. So bad.

01:22:06
Bones
Ungodly. Ungodly. Lowballed it.

01:22:09
JD
One day, capitalists, we will come for you, and you will not be happy.

01:22:13
Bones
There's a. There's an amazing Jon Stewart story that he just shared where he was having dinner at the White House and Jeff Bezos was another guest, and he was talking about how, like, how he wants, like, pretty much everything to be the service economy. And John is just kind of like, that sounds like a recipe for revolution. And John Stewart said his entire life was made when from the couch hears Obama go. I agree with John.

01:22:45
Case
Yeah. So, like, aside from those areas where it didn't quite age appropriately and, like, where our. Our modern desire to eat the rich drives us further, we have to remember that Superman is always a comic.

01:22:58
JD
You can get by Serge Ilean Pius back.

01:23:00
Case
Like, Superman is always a figure of social change, even if even. Even when his editorial base is all conservatives, like, it happened in the 50s with Mort Weisinger. Fun story that. That's why he became more of, like, everyone's dad as opposed to everyone's reactionary. Leftist.

01:23:14
Bones
His first issue, he is beating. He throws a wife beater out a window. He beats the hell out of a slub lord.

01:23:27
JD
And the very first story, I think, is the very first story in that in Action Comics Number one, she takes. He removes a corrupt politician from office. Yep.

01:23:38
Bones
Yeah.

01:23:38
Case
So Superman used to be more of a firebrand. This is not Jeph Loeb, I would not say, is like a big leftist. Like, this is more, like, folksy, like, the good folk back home are gonna inspire you type of stuff. But I don't think this is contrarian to that. I think it is just trying to be, like, generally, like, pleasant. And so the. The only. The only criticism I could make of this book is that it is. There is not much of a call to action in it all. Like, it is not. But. But that said, I think it will come off as, like, a good story to anyone. It's like a really good, like, general audience thing. It's not going to alienate anyone because it feels just like.

01:24:19
Case
No, this is why it's important to everyone to remember, like, where you came from and like, to try to be the best person you can be for everyone.

01:24:27
JD
Yeah, I don't. I don't totally agree with the criticism of. Of there is no call to action, mainly because I don't think there needed to be a call to action for this type of story.

01:24:38
Case
That's fair. That's. That. That's fair. And like, again, like, some of this is just like our more modern reinterpretation of Superman under the lens of a post pandemic 2020 lens is. Is very different than where it was in the 90s, where, you know, Superman was coming off of, like, a lot of vibes.

01:24:53
Bones
Well, I mean. Well, that's also what Tom Taylor is currently doing with Superman's son John, where he's like, all right, you can't throw climate change out a window. Like, yeah, what do you.

01:25:05
JD
And actually, that also. And like, in. In Tom Taylor's first issue, he kind of answers that question of, like, dad, why didn't you just, like, why didn't you do more? And he's like, well, I came to this planet and I feel like this isn't like, this is kind of like, not quite. It wasn't quite my place, but you are actually of this planet, so that means it's your place to actually change it. Bye.

01:25:32
Bones
I would go off to war world now.

01:25:34
JD
Yeah, that. That.

01:25:36
Case
That's a rough bit right there. Because, like, this Clark here in For All Seasons is of this world. You know, he is of Smallville. He is firmly there. And I think that is why nature is the biggest thing that he has to face off. Significance. That there are things bigger than Superman. Like even if he can change the course of the mighty river, he couldn't have completely stopped that flood. He couldn't completely stop that tornado even if he could save the people involved in it. Like, like when and when mankind starts to muck with nature by creating terrible viruses, he, like he was powerless in that regard. Like he had no chance against Lex Luthor's plan. He had to turn. Exactly.

01:26:13
Case
And I think that's the balance here where it's like Superman can do a lot and he can make the world better for people, but he can't do it by himself and that. And he can't do it completely wishy washy. He can't just make the world perfect without any sort of challenge. Like we all have to contribute together. And that's, you know, ultimately the thing for Superman is that he will show us the way and we will rally behind him and it will all be a big team effort to make the world a utopia. Is the goal like that he's going to lead us into it. But like a leader needs people to work with them. Like a leader can't do the job for them. And I think that's evidenced here, you know, like Smallville, he saves the riverside of it.

01:26:51
Case
But like a lot of people are involved in like getting provisions to people like he wouldn't even have known about the flood if like the, if the local sheriff hadn't shown up to like warn people about it all.

01:27:00
Bones
You know, I will also say that there's a. I will try to. To credit my. To build up my cred again a little bit by saying another thing that I did like about the 78 movie was that line of they are capable of good and like. And that's why I sent them you to show them the way.

01:27:21
Case
Yeah, I think that's a really good encapsulation of why we as an audience look at stories about this impossible person. Yeah, because it is us trying to talk about what our dreams of good can be. And I think this is a really good book at doing that. I think, you know, again, while it's maybe has less conflict, it is not without conflict. Like both man and nature are things that Superman must struggle with. And I think that it works really well as like an origin story of maybe not Superman's powers or position or anything like that, but it's an origin story for his morality. Like we see where he comes from and why the people of Earth matter to him. So, yeah, like, I think we've, I mean, we talked about each issue, we've talked about our experiences. What, what is everyone's closing thoughts?

01:28:04
Case
Let's, let's keep the same order going. So, J Mike, what are your closing thoughts on this?

01:28:08
Jmike
I really like this one. I. I'm gonna say some heresy here myself. I was not a fan of the way they had Superman looking. Like the art style of the entire book was great, but I just wasn't a fan of his particular art style for this book.

01:28:23
JD
You mean his gigantic face?

01:28:25
Jmike
His gigantic large size face? It was like, wow, this is a look. This is a look. This is a great story. It's very down to earth. Very, like you said, very nature oriented. Very, very quiet. Not too, not too many big states. It's just a great reminder of why Superman is Superman. And I loved it.

01:28:46
Case
Awesome. Angela?

01:28:48
Bones
Yeah, it's. Yeah, just kind of like I said, like this helped to like, turn me into a Superman fan. I think it's a great entry point. The, like using four different narrators for each issue. Like, you know, one for each issue definitely helps you examine Superman because like, that's in the end, like, the purpose of this is to. It's like it's a character piece and I think it's. And I think it's a great one. And to show why he's like been around for like 85 years now, like GD closing thoughts.

01:29:21
JD
I'm not going to be original here and just say, I really enjoyed it. I'm fine. I'm glad I finally got to experience this classic at this point, classic Superman story. And I would just like to echo everything that has already been that J Mike and Angela have already said. It's. It's a beautiful encapsulation of why this character has continued to endure.

01:29:44
Jmike
I will say that it could always use more Amish Superman.

01:29:51
JD
I've got to read the nail. I've got to.

01:29:54
Case
It's also on DC Universe Infinite. Just, you know, just so you know, if you go to DC Universe Infinite, you can check out.

01:30:01
JD
You can read Superman for all seasons and many other stories.

01:30:05
Case
So many great comics can be read at DC Universe. Yeah.

01:30:08
JD
Warner Brothers give us our damn money.

01:30:12
Bones
Wait, is it Warner Brothers now or did AT&T finally buy them?

01:30:16
JD
AT&T's gone. They sold it off to someone else.

01:30:20
Jmike
Regardless.

01:30:21
Case
Warner Brothers was always a division of WarnerMedia, which was part of Time Warner. So, like, the whole. The whole tree of who owns what, because, you know, this is a capitalist hellscape that Superman would object to and would try to fight against because, you.

01:30:35
JD
Know, I'm going off of Twitter is going to pop up before Superman thing.

01:30:39
Bones
Yeah, there you go.

01:30:39
Case
Yeah. Again, I will say that I really enjoyed it. Looking at it now from the lens of, like, 2022, and, you know, aside from, like, the whole, like, capitalism, blah, blah, like, it is. It is interesting to see this as, like, three years later, Jeph Low would be the creative consultant for Smallville. And you can see that like. Like, there. There's certainly a through line right there. And, like, after this, Jeff Loeb and Tim Sale would go on to do all the different, like, Marvel color stuff. There was the Dark Victory Batman story. You know, there's, like, all kinds of stuff that they would do together after this. So, like, it's a team that keeps on going. But there's a reason when they make Superman and Lois, they cop.

01:31:17
Case
Like, they copy the scene at the end of the first issue almost perfectly because that is such an iconic look for Superman. Like, this is such a perfect snapshot of why Superman resonates with people. And regardless of anything else about it, I think that you can look at it and be like, oh, that's why, like, you look at this book and you're like, I see why people would do a podcast about Superman.

01:31:42
Bones
Yeah.

01:31:43
Case
So I think we've talked about this book to death. I appreciate y' all for. For joining me on this one. J. Mike, thank you for letting me subject you to yet another comic.

01:31:53
Jmike
Hey, I don't mind this one. Okay. This one was great. This was great.

01:31:57
Case
I'm trying to have more hits than misses at this point. That's all I'm going for. Angela, thank you for joining us. JD thank you for joining us.

01:32:04
Bones
Thanks for having me.

01:32:05
Case
Yeah. Why don't the two of you talk about what you got going on? Like, where can people find you? What? What, What? What's your deal?

01:32:11
JD
Well, we've got continuing podcasts, Fables and Reflections that everyone can check out@ certainpow.com the same place you can find all sorts of other wonderful podcasts, including the one you're listening to right now. And I'm assuming by the time this episode is out, either the episode will have already dropped or it will be coming soon. But case, you're actually on an episode of Fables and Reflections.

01:32:40
Case
Oh, snap.

01:32:41
JD
Yeah, yeah.

01:32:43
Bones
Norse mythology.

01:32:44
JD
Yeah. We talk, you know, going back to our discussion of Thor earlier, we talked about the nor, we talked about Neil Gaiman's Norse mythology. But you can find the show there. You can find. If you want to follow us on social media, you can find us at F and R pod and is spelled out on both Twitter and Instagram. And you know, find us everywhere. You can get your podcasts, including the.

01:33:10
Bones
Wondrous certainpov.com I do wonder if I made a mistake with spelling out and with our social media instead of just doing an ampersand.

01:33:20
Case
It's so rough. Like I am dealing with this all the time with data entry. Like do we do and or an ampersand? God dammit. But speaking of social media, what are your respective social media handles?

01:33:30
Bones
You can find me on Twitter with random bullshit bullockbits on Twitter as well as certain POV media. Just got a Twitch channel. Yeah. Which by the time this airs, most likely the first CPOV game night will have happened with. Will have happened with among us. So yeah, if we have some certain POV guests, other podcasters lined up to where we're gonna try and kill each other.

01:34:05
Case
Yeah. So Twitch is there. Check that out. We've got. We're actively twitching again after not really doing that for a couple years. So come Twitch out with us. I don't know, J.D. Where can people find you?

01:34:17
JD
You can find me on Twitter Dmartin. There's apparently a lot of J.D. Martins out there. You can follow me there where I will occasionally. And when I say occasionally, like every few days I will shout about a comic that I'm finally catching up on.

01:34:31
Case
Nice J Mike. If people wanted to find you, where can they find you?

01:34:34
Jmike
You can Find me on TwitterMichael101. I respond to things occasionally. And I might post some memes occasionally too.

01:34:41
Case
As for me, you can find me on Twitter Aesagin. You can find me on Instagram etzelcoatl5. You can find the show on Twitter Men of Steelpod because someone finally pointed out Matt, our wonderful editor, was like, hey, you know, you can change your username, not just the display name. And I was like, oh, I'm dumb.

01:34:59
Bones
Hooray.

01:35:02
Case
So we finally changed it so there's no more bullshit 14 at the end. So Men of Steel Pod. Check that out. If you're already following us, you're fine. But look for that if you weren't. You can find more episodes of this show and tons of other shows like Fables and Reflections, for example, at CertainPov.com you can find a link to our Discord server. There's we're having this call right now on Discord. It's a great time. You can come just share memes, talk comics, get sneak peeks at what we're putting out in the world, or just be clued in when we're going to be streaming and stuff. So again, certainpow.com's great. Our Discord's great. Follow all the stuff that we're doing because we've got a lot of talented people putting a lot of effort into shouting into the void.

01:35:40
Case
And, you know, sometimes we all have to hold hands as we shout into the void together. So check all that out and then come back for more episodes of this show. But until then, stay super man.

01:35:55
Jmike
Men of Steel is a Certain POV production. Our hosts are J. Mike Folson and Case Aiken. The show is edited by Matt Storm. Our logo is by Chris Batista. Episode art is by Case Aiken. And our theme is by Jeff Mo.

01:36:13
Case
Matt, when you're editing this, let me know. Did that work? Did that work in terms of syncing for you? I'm curious. I know you said that claps are good for also the visual, but you know what? It let's each just like, let's also do a clap just in case.

01:36:27
Jmike
All right?

01:36:28
Case
One, two, three and then clap.

01:36:29
Jmike
Okay?

01:36:29
JD
Okay. All right.

01:36:30
Case
All right. One, two, three. Cool. That gives them something visual to lock onto. Matt, let us know what you prefer. Comment below.

01:36:41
JD
Count your shattering eardrums.

01:36:44
Bones
Yep.

01:36:45
Case
Hi, I'm Matt, aka Storm again, and I'm the host of CPOV autographs@ certainpov.com it is a bi weekly interview series where I interview folks from all over the arts, from writers to comedians to magicians to musicians, even actors, historians, podcasters, pretty much anyone who's willing to chat with me for a little bit. If you like interesting conversations with even more interesting people, go to certainpov.com or wherever you get your podcasts. And remember, music is life and life is good. This March, get ready for two weeks of the Bat, two weeks of vengeance, two weeks of the Dark Knight Fortnight. Hey, all you amazing sentient beings, this is Case Aiken from Certain pov. And outside of podcasting or, I work with a group that does Star Trek fan films called starship Farragut.

01:37:38
Case
For 15 years, we've been doing material inspired by the original Star Trek series, but now we're moving on to the movie era with our latest production, Farragut Forward. And that means new sets, new props, and we're gonna have to make those monster maroon uniforms so we have a crowdfunder running right now. Backers can get access to our soundtracks, have their names show up on screen as part of a duty roster, or even get a walk on roll. Our hope is that this is just the beginning, and that the assets we create with the money we raise will go towards future productions, including possibly a sequel that may just be written by a certain scruffy nerf hurting man of steel who'll take another pass at it. Wink wink.

01:38:16
Case
To back the production, go to Indiegogo and look up Farragut Forward or find us on Twitter aragat1921 and hey, while you're at it, check. Check out the three minute prologue we put together to show what we can do. But in the meantime, live long and prosper. Certainpov.com.